MIT Engineer Jeff King Says WTC Demolished

[Ed_CornwallUK]

The other day there was alot of discussion bout 9/11....saw this video amd thought it might be of interest!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8XToX7aSdg

Dont wana be controverisal just found it interesting as he is an MIT engineer.

Hope you all find it interesting!!

Reluctant Gomer:D

[Ed_CornwallUK]

The italics are taken from a website.....

""At 14:55 in this video of a live BBC news broadcast, Building 7 of the World Trade Center (the Salomon Brothers building) is announced (for the third time) to have just fallen although the building can clearly be seen standing in the background. Remember, it's a live broadcast.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C7SwOT29gbc&mode=related&search=

Note the lack of surprise in the commentator's incorrect report of the WTC 7 collapse. See the comments section for BBC's ridiculous response!

Why was it impossible for anyone to predict that WTC 7 would "fall"? [Read] 9/11 produced a great many smoking guns, but this is the mother of them all.""

When the lady repoter moves her head you can see the building clearly!

I use this other video to verify it's position!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_08VwJRP-Xc&mode=related&search=

Also an another video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt14LphgcxM

interesting!!

Reluctant Gomer

[Evanescence]

Hmmm...Imagine that. An MIT engineer? Must be another nutcase...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[Buttabean]

why the sarcasm man? he was just trying to be helpful. . .:confused:

[clemsontigers23]

E, Ed...read:

http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0112/Eagar/Eagar-0112.html

Actual science that debunks your nonsensical conspiracy theories.

[HotWireD]

Hmmm...Imagine that. An MIT engineer? Must be another nutcase...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

why the sarcasm man? he was just trying to be helpful. . .:confused:

LOL Buttabean - I doubt that is plain run of the mill sarcasm from E' - more likely 'tongue in cheek reverse psychological sarcasm'.

(I am not trying to be sarcastic - I study fires - I examine fire scenes, have studied metallurgy at a forensic laboratory, have been on explosive courses and have researched pretty much all of the information on building structure relating to 9/11 that E' has). I tend to think that something is up with the investigations, just like E', however, I do not want to be branded a nutcase like E' and the MIT engineer lol. I keep my theories to myself).

I do like reading Evanescence's posts and threads. They read the same as a lot of the fireside conversations I hear from my friends.

Edit: One thing that does worry me is that the steel structure was destroyed within a few weeks or months and was not stored for examination - I would have thought that forensic evidence was lost that may have been able to show what had happened - either way - supporting E's opinion or the 'opposition'.

I was also surprised that the investigation - considering the consequences and subsequent conspiracy theories that have arisen - was so quick and cost so little (compared to the investigation into President Clinton's indiscretions).

[clemsontigers23]

I will post this again, even though I posted it in the WTC 7 thread:

THE PLANES
The widely accepted account that hijackers commandeered and crashed the four 9/11 planes is supported by reams of evidence, from cockpit recordings to forensics to the fact that crews and passengers never returned home. Nonetheless, conspiracy theorists seize on a handful of "facts" to argue a very different scenario: The jets that struck New York and Washington, D.C., weren't commercial planes, they say, but something else, perhaps refueling tankers or guided missiles. And the lack of military intervention? Theorists claim it proves the U.S. government instigated the assault or allowed it to occur in order to advance oil interests or a war agenda.

THE WORLD TRADE CENTER
The collapse of both World Trade Center towers--and the smaller WTC 7 a few hours later--initially surprised even some experts. But subsequent studies have shown that the WTC's structural integrity was destroyed by intense fire as well as the severe damage inflicted by the planes. That explanation hasn't swayed conspiracy theorists, who contend that all three buildings were wired with explosives in advance and razed in a series of controlled demolitions.

Widespread Damage
CLAIM: The first hijacked plane crashed through the 94th to the 98th floors of the World Trade Center's 110-story North Tower; the second jet slammed into the 78th to the 84th floors of the 110-story South Tower. The impact and ensuing fires disrupted elevator service in both buildings. Plus, the lobbies of both buildings were visibly damaged before the towers collapsed. "There is NO WAY the impact of the jet caused such widespread damage 80 stories below," claims a posting on the San Diego Independent Media Center Web site (sandiego.indymedia.org). "It is OBVIOUS and irrefutable that OTHER EXPLOSIVES (... such as concussion bombs) HAD ALREADY BEEN DETONATED in the lower levels of tower one at the same time as the plane crash."

FACT: Following up on a May 2002 preliminary report by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), a major study will be released in spring 2005 by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), a branch of the U.S. Department of Commerce. NIST shared its initial findings with PM and made its lead researcher available to our team of reporters.

The NIST investigation revealed that plane debris sliced through the utility shafts at the North Tower's core, creating a conduit for burning jet fuel--and fiery destruction throughout the building. "It's very hard to document where the fuel went," says Forman Williams, a NIST adviser and a combustion expert, "but if it's atomized and combustible and gets to an ignition source, it'll go off."

Burning fuel traveling down the elevator shafts would have disrupted the elevator systems and caused extensive damage to the lobbies. NIST heard first-person testimony that "some elevators slammed right down" to the ground floor. "The doors cracked open on the lobby floor and flames came out and people died," says James Quintiere, an engineering professor at the University of Maryland and a NIST adviser. A similar observation was made in the French documentary "9/11," by Jules and Gedeon Naudet. As Jules Naudet entered the North Tower lobby, minutes after the first aircraft struck, he saw victims on fire, a scene he found too horrific to film.

"Melted" Steel
CLAIM: "We have been lied to," announces the Web site AttackOnAmerica.net. "The first lie was that the load of fuel from the aircraft was the cause of structural failure. No kerosene fire can burn hot enough to melt steel." The posting is entitled "Proof Of Controlled Demolition At The WTC."

FACT: Jet fuel burns at 800° to 1500°F, not hot enough to melt steel (2750°F). However, experts agree that for the towers to collapse, their steel frames didn't need to melt, they just had to lose some of their structural strength--and that required exposure to much less heat. "I have never seen melted steel in a building fire," says retired New York deputy fire chief Vincent Dunn, author of The Collapse Of Burning Buildings: A Guide To Fireground Safety. "But I've seen a lot of twisted, warped, bent and sagging steel. What happens is that the steel tries to expand at both ends, but when it can no longer expand, it sags and the surrounding concrete cracks."

"Steel loses about 50 percent of its strength at 1100°F," notes senior engineer Farid Alfawak-hiri of the American Institute of Steel Construction. "And at 1800° it is probably at less than 10 percent." NIST also believes that a great deal of the spray-on fireproofing insulation was likely knocked off the steel beams that were in the path of the crashing jets, leaving the metal more vulnerable to the heat.

But jet fuel wasn't the only thing burning, notes Forman Williams, a professor of engineering at the University of California, San Diego, and one of seven structural engineers and fire experts that PM consulted. He says that while the jet fuel was the catalyst for the WTC fires, the resulting inferno was intensified by the combustible material inside the buildings, including rugs, curtains, furniture and paper. NIST reports that pockets of fire hit 1832°F.

"The jet fuel was the ignition source," Williams tells PM. "It burned for maybe 10 minutes, and [the towers] were still standing in 10 minutes. It was the rest of the stuff burning afterward that was responsible for the heat transfer that eventually brought them down."

Puffs Of Dust
CLAIM: As each tower collapsed, clearly visible puffs of dust and debris were ejected from the sides of the buildings. An advertisement in The New York Times for the book Painful Questions: An Analysis Of The September 11th Attack made this claim: "The concrete clouds shooting out of the buildings are not possible from a mere collapse. They do occur from explosions." Numerous conspiracy theorists cite Van Romero, an explosives expert and vice president of the New Mexico Institute of Mining and Technology, who was quoted on 9/11 by the Albuquerque Journal as saying "there were some explosive devices inside the buildings that caused the towers to collapse." The article continues, "Romero said the collapse of the structures resembled those of controlled implosions used to demolish old structures."

FACT: Once each tower began to collapse, the weight of all the floors above the collapsed zone bore down with pulverizing force on the highest intact floor. Unable to absorb the massive energy, that floor would fail, transmitting the forces to the floor below, allowing the collapse to progress downward through the building in a chain reaction. Engineers call the process "pancaking," and it does not require an explosion to begin, according to David Biggs, a structural engineer at Ryan-Biggs Associates and a member of the American Society of Civil Engineers (ASCE) team that worked on the FEMA report.

Like all office buildings, the WTC towers contained a huge volume of air. As they pancaked, all that air--along with the concrete and other debris pulverized by the force of the collapse--was ejected with enormous energy. "When you have a significant portion of a floor collapsing, it's going to shoot air and concrete dust out the window," NIST lead investigator Shyam Sunder tells PM. Those clouds of dust may create the impression of a controlled demolition, Sunder adds, "but it is the floor pancaking that leads to that perception."

Demolition expert Romero regrets that his comments to the Albuquerque Journal became fodder for conspiracy theorists. "I was misquoted in saying that I thought it was explosives that brought down the building," he tells PM. "I only said that that's what it looked like."

Romero, who agrees with the scientific conclusion that fire triggered the collapses, demanded a retraction from the Journal. It was printed Sept. 22, 2001. "I felt like my scientific reputation was on the line." But emperors-clothes.com saw something else: "The paymaster of Romero's research institute is the Pentagon. Directly or indirectly, pressure was brought to bear, forcing Romero to retract his original statement." Romero responds: "Conspiracy theorists came out saying that the government got to me. That is the farthest thing from the truth. This has been an albatross around my neck for three years."

http://www.popularmechanics.com/technology/military_law/1227842.html?page=4

More in the "Building 7" discussion.

[Evanescence]

LOL Buttabean - I doubt that is plain run of the mill sarcasm from E' - more likely 'tongue in cheek reverse psychological sarcasm'.

(I am not trying to be sarcastic - I study fires - I examine fire scenes, have studied metallurgy at a forensic laboratory, have been on explosive courses and have researched pretty much all of the information on building structure relating to 9/11 that E' has). I tend to think that something is up with the investigations, just like E', however, I do not want to be branded a nutcase like E' and the MIT engineer lol. I keep my theories to myself).

I do like reading Evanescence's posts and threads. They read the same as a lot of the fireside conversations I hear from my friends.

Edit: One thing that does worry me is that the steel structure was destroyed within a few weeks or months and was not stored for examination - I would have thought that forensic evidence was lost that may have been able to show what had happened - either way - supporting E's opinion or the 'opposition'.

I was also surprised that the investigation - considering the consequences and subsequent conspiracy theories that have arisen - was so quick and cost so little (compared to the investigation into President Clinton's indiscretions).

Sarcasm it was....what a shame I had to spell that out...:rolleyes:

You are correct on the issue of the evidence. It was destroyed and/or sold to China. It was a CRIME scene, so regardless of cost, it needed to be stored and/or investigated. I'm not sure how long it took till it was gone....but it wasn't long.

The same with the Pentagon. It is a CRIME that there were people out on the lawn picking up small pieces of debris (not large chunks of the plane) but walking around picking up small tidbits of soemthing. That was a crime scene and was supposed to be fenced off, but immediatley there were people...many in their suits and ties out there wandering around and interfering. Or maybe they were....:cool:

[Evanescence]

I'm not going to get into this too much, for fear of being censored and/or having bawl baby PMs flying around, but Mr. Clemson has posted the entire Popular mechanics article debunking the 911 Conspiracy Possibility.

Here is some of that from above...

FACT: Following up on a May 2002 preliminary report by the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA), a major study will be released in spring 2005 by the National Institute of Standards and Technology (NIST), a branch of the U.S. Department of Commerce. NIST shared its initial findings with PM and made its lead researcher available to our team of reporters.

The NIST investigation revealed that plane debris sliced through the utility shafts at the North Tower's core, creating a conduit for burning jet fuel--and fiery destruction throughout the building. "It's very hard to document where the fuel went," says Forman Williams, a NIST adviser and a combustion expert, "but if it's atomized and combustible and gets to an ignition source, it'll go off."

Burning fuel traveling down the elevator shafts would have disrupted the elevator systems and caused extensive damage to the lobbies. NIST heard first-person testimony that "some elevators slammed right down" to the ground floor. "The doors cracked open on the lobby floor and flames came out and people died," says James Quintiere, an engineering professor at the University of Maryland and a NIST adviser. A similar observation was made in the French documentary "9/11," by Jules and Gedeon Naudet. As Jules Naudet entered the North Tower lobby, minutes after the first aircraft struck, he saw victims on fire, a scene he found too horrific to film.


I have read the article and it has some merits. But the troubling this about the entire thing is that it seems to be explanations by FEDERAL or GOVT agencies. Hello people? Are we seeing WHO is telling us what and why?

For every expert that contributed to this article...and maybe it is their professional opinion, there are dozens, if not hundreds of experts and eyewitnesses that are behind us getting to the bottom of this. Some are even ex-military and government workers and/or experts. THEY didn't have a say at the 911 Commission Hearings and investigation.

[kiwisongbird]

I think I'd listen to what HotWired says - it's his job after all... strange that the investigation wasn't carried on more fully (if at all)... and I always believe there are three sides to every story anyway...

my side, their side and the truth - only God knows that one!

The greatest danger that I see in all this stuff is the danger of believing everything you're told and not questioning things - I fall into that trap often and it's not a good place to be in...

No matter what political party is in power in whatever country we live in I think we need to be careful not to merely believe what is said...

[River]

I'm not going to get into this too much, for fear of being censored and/or having bawl baby PMs flying around, but Mr. Clemson has posted the entire Popular mechanics article debunking the 911 Conspiracy Possibility.

Here is some of that from above...



I have read the article and it has some merits. But the troubling this about the entire thing is that it seems to be explanations by FEDERAL or GOVT agencies. Hello people? Are we seeing WHO is telling us what and why?



Ok, now I've taken the time to read the articles about this and watched the videos before I decided what to believe... and the 9/11 conspiracy just doesn't hold much water. Building 7 has been explained (the steel warped, not melted, causing the building to collapse... I've seen warped steel as a result of a fire so it's simple for me to believe that) and since that has a logical explanation and would take hours to occur, it can be assumed that the BBC just erred.

I have no doubt that shadiness was involved in the events Following 9/11 but there's just not any logical reasons left that I can see that would suggest it was staged.

And it was a government building. filled with government employees that was destroyed, so it's also perfectly logical that the Government would be the ones to investigate it.

[clemsontigers23]

I'm not going to get into this too much, for fear of being censored and/or having bawl baby PMs flying around, but Mr. Clemson has posted the entire Popular mechanics article debunking the 911 Conspiracy Possibility.

Here is some of that from above...



I have read the article and it has some merits. But the troubling this about the entire thing is that it seems to be explanations by FEDERAL or GOVT agencies. Hello people? Are we seeing WHO is telling us what and why?

For every expert that contributed to this article...and maybe it is their professional opinion, there are dozens, if not hundreds of experts and eyewitnesses that are behind us getting to the bottom of this. Some are even ex-military and government workers and/or experts. THEY didn't have a say at the 911 Commission Hearings and investigation.

I think your problem is you think everything the government does is evil, and there's nothing I can do for you there. One thing I can ask, though, is that you give it up and quit posting these conspiracy theories because most of us can see they are ridiculous.

[Evanescence]

I think your problem is you think everything the government does is evil, and there's nothing I can do for you there. One thing I can ask, though, is that you give it up and quit posting these conspiracy theories because most of us can see they are ridiculous.

Pretty much.

I didn't post this...soemone else did. I'll post what i want though, its a public forum and I am within the confines of the protocol therein.

[Evanescence]

Ok, now I've taken the time to read the articles about this and watched the videos before I decided what to believe... and the 9/11 conspiracy just doesn't hold much water. Building 7 has been explained (the steel warped, not melted, causing the building to collapse... I've seen warped steel as a result of a fire so it's simple for me to believe that) and since that has a logical explanation and would take hours to occur, it can be assumed that the BBC just erred.

I have no doubt that shadiness was involved in the events Following 9/11 but there's just not any logical reasons left that I can see that would suggest it was staged.

And it was a government building. filled with government employees that was destroyed, so it's also perfectly logical that the Government would be the ones to investigate it.

Hi River,

I respect and appreciate your post and the fact you actually looked into this somewhat.

I believe the BBC news error was probably just that. I'm not one of those that has a negative spin on everything trying to scratch and claw every last detail for my points.

As for the Govt investigating its own buildings. I agree, but thats where the problem lies, we have to take THEIR analysis at face value. My point was that the PM article supposedly debunked 911 Conspiracy theories, when in fact its all just government quotes and agencies trying to explain it all away. I mean, why not have Bush, Cheney and Rummy in it too? It has zero credibility and in fact the article was debunked by David Griffin in a book. I didn't see it, but its reported that it tore it to shreds.

Now, two questions for you though:

1. Did you see and/or are you aware that the fires in Building 7 were VERY small....this was obvious for most of the day. And yet, its been claimed that the steel warped causing it to come down. Don't you find it suspicious and/or hard to believe with such small fires...which are very obvious, that it came down so clean and fast? Can you dispute that it looks like a controlled demolition?

2. Being a firefighter, are you aware of the magazine, Firefighting Engineer? Experts showed dozens of skyscraers that had HUGE fires, but never collapsed. They claim a steel building has never collapsed before 911.

3. In regards to the Twin Towers, don't you fin it suspect, that the South Tower collapsed a mere 22 minutes after being struck. Could the steel have been heated that fast....especially with a small oxygen starved fire?

4. Lastly, do you find it a bit suspect that Building 7 collapse was not mentioned in the 911 Commission report? In fact, FEMA concluded that there was no explanation why it collapsed?

Thanks again for your research and honesty...:)

[Evanescence]

Two interesting testimonies taken from the most reputable, non-partisan site on the 9/11 Conspiracy, I have found. There are hundreds of credible witnesses like these two. Its kinda hard to dismiss them.

http://www.patriotsquestion911.c om/survivors.html

----------------------------
William Rodriguez – WTC survivor. An American Building Maintenance employee for twenty years, responsible for inspection and maintenance at the World Trade Center, who held the master key for the stairs. He was the last person to leave the building on September 11 and has been credited with saving many lives. For his efforts, he received the National Hero Award from the Senate of Puerto Rico. Founder, Hispanic Victims Group.

Article 6/24/05: Regarding an explosion in the sub-basement of the World Trade Center North Tower on 9/11, prior to any airplane impact. "When I heard the sound of the explosion, the floor beneath my feet vibrated, the walls started cracking and it everything started shaking," said Rodriguez, who was huddled together with at least 14 other people in the office. ...[Editor's note: At this point, Mr. Rodriguez was in sub-basement B1 of the North Tower, approximately 1,100 feet below the airplane's impact point at floors 93 to 98.]

"Seconds after the first massive explosion below in the basement still rattled the floor, I hear another explosion from way above," said Rodriguez. "Although I was unaware at the time, this was the airplane hitting the tower, it occurred moments after the first explosion."

But before Rodriguez had time to think, co-worker Felipe David stormed into the basement office with severe burns on his face and arms, screaming for help and yelling "explosion! explosion! explosion!"

David had been in front of a nearby freight elevator on sub-level 1 about 400 feet from the office when fire burst out of the elevator shaft, causing his injuries.

"He was burned terribly," said Rodriguez. "The skin was hanging off his hands and arms. His injuries couldn't have come from the airplane above, but only from a massive explosion below. I don’t care what the government says, what scientists say. I saw a man burned terribly from a fire that was caused from an explosion below.

"I know there were explosives placed below the trade center. I helped a man to safety who is living proof, living proof the government story is a lie and a cover-up. ...

"I disagree 100%with the government story," said Rodriguez. "I met with the 9/11 Commission behind closed doors and they essentially discounted everything I said regarding the use of explosives to bring down the north tower.

"And I contacted NIST previously four times without a response. Finally, this week I asked them before they came up with their conclusion that jet fuel brought down the towers, if they ever considered my statements or the statements of any of the other survivors who heard the explosions. They just stared at me with blank faces and didn’t have any answers." http://www.arcticbeacon


Editor's note: Despite hundreds of eyewitness reports of explosions throughout the Twin Towers by doomed victims, survivors, emergency service personnel, reporters, and bystanders, the 9/11 Commission Report contains virtually no mention of them and entirely ignores them in its conclusions. Graeme MacQueen's analysis of oral histories of 9/11 taken from 503 FDNY survivors reveals more than 100 FDNY personnel reported explosions in the Twin Towers.
-----------------------------------------------------

Phillip Morelli – WTC survivor. Construction worker at the World Trade Center for seven years .
Video interview: "At 8:30 he says he was headed for level B-4 in Tower One [North Tower], four stories below ground.

"... As I'm walking by the main freight car of the building, in the corridor, that's when I got blown. I mean the impact of the explosion, from whatever happened, it threw me to the floor. And that's when everything started happening. It knocked me right to the floor. You didn't know what it was. Of course, you're assuming something fell over on the loading dock, something very heavy, something very big. You don't know what happened. And all of a sudden you just felt the floor moving. ... [Editor's note: At this point, Mr. Morelli was in the sub-basement of the North Tower, approximately 1,100 feet below the airplane's point of impact at floors 93 to 98.]

I was racing -- I was going towards the bathroom. All of a sudden. I opened the door. I didn't know it was a bathroom And all of a sudden a big impact happened again. And all the ceiling tiles were falling down. The light fixtures were falling, swinging out of the ceiling. And I come running out the door and everything, the walls were down. And I now started running towards the parking lots."

Nearly 100 floors below where the first plane hit Phil felt the devastating impact. ...

"As I ran to the parking lots, you know, I mean, everybody screaming ... There was a lot of smoke down there. ... You gotta go clear across the whole -- from One to Two World Trade Center. That's the way you gotta run.

And then all of a sudden it happened all over again. Building Two got hit. I don't know that. I just know something else hit us to the floor. Right in the basement you felt it. The walls were caving in. Everything that was going on. I know of people that got killed in the basement. I know of people that got broken legs in the basement. People got reconstructive surgery because the walls hit them in the face." http://real.ny1.com


Editor's note: Despite hundreds of eyewitness reports of explosions throughout the Twin Towers by doomed victims, survivors, emergency service personnel, reporters, and bystanders, the 9/11 Commission Report contains virtually no mention of them and entirely ignores them in its conclusions. Graeme MacQueen's analysis of oral histories of 9/11 taken from 503 FDNY survivors reveals more than 100 FDNY personnel reported explosions in the Twin Towers.

[River]

1. Did you see and/or are you aware that the fires in Building 7 were VERY small....



I don't know what you mean by "very small". They were unchecked so naturally they would become larger. Although I agree that a lot of it wasn't seen... that's not always a good thing though. Fires can smolder and burn within walls and not be seen, still causing damage to the structure.

The video that was posted in the Jeff King thing does sort of look like a "controlled demolition". But you know what it also looks like? The scene in The Matrix when the helicopter crashed into the building, the glass was blown out floor by floor and the "shockwaves" spread down the building. Now, I don't know much about crashes o r anything, but I find it odd t hat the special effects people determined that would be the result of an aircraft hitting a building and then a few years later... it did.



2. Being a firefighter, are you aware of the magazine, Firefighting Engineer? Experts showed dozens of skyscraers that had HUGE fires, but never collapsed. They claim a steel building has never collapsed before 911.



Not a firefighter... just had the misfortune to be near the LA Riots. Building 7 had damage and jet fuel igniting fires within it... according to what I've read, I do see a difference between that and a regular fire and I see how it could slowly bring a building down. The elevators crashing has witnesses.



3. In regards to the Twin Towers, don't you fin it suspect, that the South Tower collapsed a mere 22 minutes after being struck. Could the steel have been heated that fast....especially with a small oxygen starved fire?



Not at all... when I was watching it live, I was shocked that the building was still standing at all considering how much damage the plane did. That's another thing... I saw the building standing there after the plane hit it, so this theory requires that there was a "crash" or something that took a huge chunk of the building out... Then it was demolished 22 minutes later. Why would anyone do that as opposed to just blowing up the buildings? In fact, why blame planes at all? Just use a bomb and say bin Laden did it. I can't see the logic in it.



4. Lastly, do you find it a bit suspect that Building 7 collapse was not mentioned in the 911 Commission report? In fact, FEMA concluded that there was no explanation why it collapsed?


FEMA's impotence is well-documented at this point, so I don't know what to say about that that won't turn this into a different discussion so I'll just shrug my shoulders to that question.

[Evanescence]

I don't know what you mean by "very small". They were unchecked so naturally they would become larger. Although I agree that a lot of it wasn't seen... that's not always a good thing though. Fires can smolder and burn within walls and not be seen, still causing damage to the structure.

The video that was posted in the Jeff King thing does sort of look like a "controlled demolition". But you know what it also looks like? The scene in The Matrix when the helicopter crashed into the building, the glass was blown out floor by floor and the "shockwaves" spread down the building. Now, I don't know much about crashes o r anything, but I find it odd t hat the special effects people determined that would be the result of an aircraft hitting a building and then a few years later... it did.



Not a firefighter... just had the misfortune to be near the LA Riots. Building 7 had damage and jet fuel igniting fires within it... according to what I've read, I do see a difference between that and a regular fire and I see how it could slowly bring a building down. The elevators crashing has witnesses.



Not at all... when I was watching it live, I was shocked that the building was still standing at all considering how much damage the plane did. That's another thing... I saw the building standing there after the plane hit it, so this theory requires that there was a "crash" or something that took a huge chunk of the building out... Then it was demolished 22 minutes later. Why would anyone do that as opposed to just blowing up the buildings? In fact, why blame planes at all? Just use a bomb and say bin Laden did it. I can't see the logic in it.



FEMA's impotence is well-documented at this point, so I don't know what to say about that that won't turn this into a different discussion so I'll just shrug my shoulders to that question.

Thanks River, you make some good points...

I read somewhere that both Twin Towers were built and tested to withstand a direct hit from a 707....a plane which is just a little bit smaller than a 757. They suspected that someday a hijacking or just plain accident could hit one of them.

As for the CG, special FX. I'm not sure if you saying that someone could have doctored or CG'd some of the video floating around of the collapsing of the Twin Towers and Building 7. I have a CNN wrap up 9/11 plus video I spent taping on 9/11 and 9/12. Its all right there.....

I really think the Truth Movement is doing the right thing in asking for a new investigation. If our government isn't hiding anything, they should be more than willing.

But, like the old saying goes; "Who will guard the guards..."

[Gandalf]

Hmmm...Imagine that. An MIT engineer? Must be another nutcase...:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
Pretty much. He's not a member of MIT's faculty, or an expert in the field. He's a guy who got a BS in electrical engineering from MIT in the 70's, and has been working as a family physician since. He has no qualifications regarding structures or material properties.

I graduated from MIT with an SB degree in 1974, with a combined Biology-EE major (this was before a Bio-Medical Engineering Department existed), and before settling down to do clinical medicine I worked for about eight years in electronics and electro-mechanical engineering. For the past 27 years I have been working full time as a family physician, doing office-based primary care here in the rural San Joaquin Valley of central California.
(Source = his own website (http://www.plaguepuppy.net/public_html/Confronting%20the%20Evide nce/))

[River]

I read somewhere that both Twin Towers were built and tested to withstand a direct hit from a 707....a plane which is just a little bit smaller than a 757. They suspected that someday a hijacking or just plain accident could hit one of them.



From what I understand, a plane hitting those buildings was never even considered.


As for the CG, special FX. I'm not sure if you saying that someone could have doctored or CG'd some of the video floating around of the collapsing of the Twin Towers and Building 7.

No, I'm saying that these CGI people who made the "Matrix" movies studied to find out what would happen if an aircraft hit a building so they could put that scene in their movie. The result was a scene where the windows broke in a similar manner of that video that Jeff King showed. That seems to show that there was a possibility that the windows could explode in such a manner.


I really think the Truth Movement is doing the right thing in asking for a new investigation. If our government isn't hiding anything, they should be more than willing.


If I was in charge, I wouldn't agree to it... it's 6 years ago now, the country is trying to move on and I wouldn't go backwards in such a manner just to attempt to explain away a conspiracy theory. And I say "attempt" because to the hardcore theorists it wouldn't matter even if everything came across above board because they'd accuse the TM of "selling out" or something. It would just be useless and harmful to the families of the victims. I'm not saying that you're one of the "hardcore" (you seem to be trying to approach this from a rational perspective) but there's a lot of foolishness perpetuated by that faction... not the least of which are the ones suggesting that the BBC were in on it as well.

And Those people aren't going to believe anyway, so why bother picking the scabs?

[WeaselInYerFoot]

I find this conspiracy theory as plausible as this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saHs6J0OXVI

[clemsontigers23]

I find this conspiracy theory as plausible as this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=saHs6J0OXVI

:D

That was hilarious.

[Ed_CornwallUK]

Note the lack of surprise in the commentator's incorrect report of the WTC 7 collapse. See the comments section for BBC's ridiculous response!

Why was it impossible for anyone to predict that WTC 7 would "fall"? [Read] 9/11 produced a great many smoking guns, but this is the mother of them all.""

When the lady repoter moves her head you can see the building clearly!

I use this other video to verify it's position!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_08Vw...elated&search=

Also an another video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt14LphgcxM

[Evanescence]

Finally, a brave soul and someone who is really looking deep into this. Not that it is totally necessary...

Yesterday I was on another Christian Forum that discusses these so-called whacked out conspiracy theories. Intelligent, open minded discussions go on there. I posted a thread about the difficulty and logistical nightmare of rigging and blowing the WTCs for 911. I have been struggling with this part of the theory.

Here is the discussion;
http://forums.christianity.com/How_much_time_and_prepara tion_would_be_needed-_Demolition_of_WTC/m_2574127/tm.htm

This Video was posted. It is a MUST see for every American.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6708190071483512003&q=911+Mysteries&total=934&start=0&num=10&so=0&type=search&plindex=0

It is 1.5 hrs in length, very professional and very well done. Several credible experts give their opinions and public news clips are used. I believe some of the documentary that Mr. Elwood talked about is used:

Because I know many scoffers won't even watch the first 15 minutes of it, I will post some highlights. These are all in the perimeters of this thread, so there's no need for whining.

1. There is video and eyewitness testimony of explosions prior to the planes hitting both towers. Proof? Video the firefighters and news crew took from the lobby, show broken out windows and other damage. How could this be when the plane hit 100 stories above?

2. Contolled demolition is explained in depth from qualified experts. One important thing is that the basement is always blown out first, so the building above has somehwere to go. The concrete wall that holds back the water was severaly damaged by these underground explosions. Thermite is also discussed, more on this later.

3. Several eyewitnesses testify that they witnessed and were in the building when bombs went off.

4. The NOVA, PBS and 9/11 Commission report on how the towers collapsed is discussed. It's full of holes. Especially the fact that the CORE was never spoken of, used in CG diagrams or illustrations or discussed. This CORE is an enormous steel framework that went right up the middle of the Towers. These beams were HUGE, like 12" X 18" or 24". There's no way they would have even got anywhere near hot in the short amount of time, till the buildings collapsed. Further, the fact that they were all laid out in short pieces, broken up nicely, shows that something else happened.

5. The Pancake theory is a farce. The buildings collapsed in 8-10 seconds. Thats documented. A bowling ball thrown from the roof of the WTCs would drop at the same speed. So, the buildings dropped at the speed of gravity...free fall. But, if we go to the Pancake theory, it can't stand up. There would have been friction.....the bottom floors slowing down the rate of decent. It would have taken longer AND the building....would have toppled. Plus it doesn't explain what happened to the core.

6. Upon taking over the lease for the WTCs just 6 months prior (again another coincidence!) Larry Silverstein had the insurance company make changes to allow the property to be insured for terrorism. Then the security company was switched. There was a LOT of odd things happening just prior to 9/11. All coincidence?

There are tons of coincidences and proof sited, but I'll let you make up your own mind. I have drawn no major conclusions on who did this, but am still and will likely always be convinced that we were lied to about 9/11 and people died due to a sinister plot that has nothing to do with the official report.

Lastly, can we deny how security has changed in the world since 9/11? It was the catalyst for the world we now know and will always know. A world of constant tracking and survellance.

[Evanescence]

Couldn't edit my last post:

here is 100% documented proof, that Cheney and Rumsfeld ordered NORAD to not act on any hijacked or suspiscious aircraft without approval from the Pres, VP or Rummy. This was in June of 2001.

On Sept, 11, NORAD waited for over 1 hour for approval to act on the hijackings.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nt14LphgcxM

Imagine that....

[Gandalf]

... and before 9/11, you would've expected them to scramble fighters and shoot down commercial airliners without Presidential approval?

[Evanescence]

... and before 9/11, you would've expected them to scramble fighters and shoot down commercial airliners without Presidential approval?

No, but to engage them. If necessary, perhaps shoot them down...

Its all in the timing.....the timing...it can't all be coincidence.

[Gandalf]

Please, if NORAD had scrambled fighters and engaged commercial airliners full of civilians without approval, can you imagine the resulting uproar? Conspiracy theorists would actually have a solid basis for being suspicious about that.

As for the timing... perhaps a question arose regarding intelligence reports suggesting that commercial airliners might be hijacked, and NORAD asked how to respond if it happened. The administration said to ask before doing anything drastic. Seems a lot more likely than bothering to tell NORAD not to do anything if there was some secret government conspiracy. There's no way the NORAD commanders would've risked doing something like that without being told to, anyway! If it were a government conspiracy, there'd be no need to order them not to shoot down commercial airliners.

[Evanescence]

Please, if NORAD had scrambled fighters and engaged commercial airliners full of civilians without approval, can you imagine the resulting uproar? Conspiracy theorists would actually have a solid basis for being suspicious about that.

As for the timing... perhaps a question arose regarding intelligence reports suggesting that commercial airliners might be hijacked, and NORAD asked how to respond if it happened. The administration said to ask before doing anything drastic. Seems a lot more likely than bothering to tell NORAD not to do anything if there was some secret government conspiracy. There's no way the NORAD commanders would've risked doing something like that without being told to, anyway! If it were a government conspiracy, there'd be no need to order them not to shoot down commercial airliners.

A few good points no doubt...

But, Cheney AT NORAD conducting war games with hijacked planes on 9/11? Coincidence?

Please, how many coincidences can we dismiss before we throw all common sense out the window?

[Gandalf]

Common sense would, to me, dicate following Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one. A conspiracy theory can never be disproven to its believers, but that doesn't mean it's likely to be true.

Hijacked planes hit the towers, which then collapsed. Experts in structures and material sciences say that this was due to the heat from the burning fuel. (My own background in Mechanical Engineering also indicates to me that this is the obvious explanation, and quite likely to be true: while I'm an expert in combustion and thermodynamics rather than structures, it fits what I do know of the topic, and I have substantially more background in the area than a BSEE/physician.) Islamic terrorists, who've been attacking us for years, took credit for it, and continue to do so. In the absence of strong evidence to the contrary, I see no reason to believe that it didn't happen basically as described.

I'm sure there are some details of intelligence, confusion among officials, etc. that haven't been fully disclosed, but that's a far cry from the government of the US plotting such an elaborate scheme, when our elected officials are apparently incapable of cooperating on much simpler matters.

[clemsontigers23]

Also, there are recordings on the plane of the terrorists and how the hijacking occured...there were also phone calls made by flight attendants and passengers that are documented regarding the hijackings.

Gandalf is right...we were attacked, people died, and we need to leave it at that. To dwell on something that happened almost six years ago, something you have no control over, is unhealthy.

[Evanescence]

Also, there are recordings on the plane of the terrorists and how the hijacking occured...there were also phone calls made by flight attendants and passengers that are documented regarding the hijackings.

Gandalf is right...we were attacked, people died, and we need to leave it at that. To dwell on something that happened almost six years ago, something you have no control over, is unhealthy.

I'm not one to explain things away, but the recordings could have EASILY been staged. If I was in an aircraft hanger and my wife and kids threatened, i'd talk like a parakeet, say whatever they want. Especially if I didn't know what was unfolding. These recordings are to be examined, but they pale in comparison to the credible eyewitness accounts and insiders who have come out...as well as the video evidence.

There are simply too many coincidences.

The experts that Gandalf site are GOVERNMENT agencies and/or people commisioned BY THE government to report. Anyone in this catagory CANNOT be trusted. Its like having FOXNEWS do an unbiased report on the Rep party.

Clemson, your last comment is almost disturbing. You seem to say that IF there is any possibility of a coverup or lying, we should just forget about it and allow the truth to be surpressed. What justice does this do the people who died?

IF there was a sinister plot by our govt or people therein, wouldn't "forgetting" about it be a danger to the country? If the government was perpetuating a NWO scenario, wouldn't it make sense to try to stop it? The Word speaks so many times about seeking the truth and standing up for whats right. In todays world of "wrong is right" and "right is wrong" (scriptural)should we not be vigilant?

BTW- On one of the Vids I watched this morning, two recent CNN polls of 20,000 people, showed that 90% of people polled admit they feel there's more to 911 than our Govt is telling us. I will look for the info direct.

[Gandalf]

The experts that Gandalf site are GOVERNMENT agencies and/or people commisioned BY THE government to report. Anyone in this catagory CANNOT be trusted. Its like having FOXNEWS do an unbiased report on the Rep party.
Whether you consider the event to be a crime or an act of war, in either case it is the government's responsibility to deal with it. Do you doubt that murderers or rapists are guilty because it was the police who conducted the investigations? Do you doubt that the Nazis operated concentration camps because it was our military who discovered them? No one other than the government had the responsibility, authority, access, or resources to commission an investigation. Whom do you expect to do it? Ford Motor Company? :confused:

[clemsontigers23]

I'm not one to explain things away, but the recordings could have EASILY been staged. If I was in an aircraft hanger and my wife and kids threatened, i'd talk like a parakeet, say whatever they want. Especially if I didn't know what was unfolding. These recordings are to be examined, but they pale in comparison to the credible eyewitness accounts and insiders who have come out...as well as the video evidence.

There are simply too many coincidences.

The experts that Gandalf site are GOVERNMENT agencies and/or people commisioned BY THE government to report. Anyone in this catagory CANNOT be trusted. Its like having FOXNEWS do an unbiased report on the Rep party.

Clemson, your last comment is almost disturbing. You seem to say that IF there is any possibility of a coverup or lying, we should just forget about it and allow the truth to be surpressed. What justice does this do the people who died?

IF there was a sinister plot by our govt or people therein, wouldn't "forgetting" about it be a danger to the country? If the government was perpetuating a NWO scenario, wouldn't it make sense to try to stop it? The Word speaks so many times about seeking the truth and standing up for whats right. In todays world of "wrong is right" and "right is wrong" (scriptural)should we not be vigilant?

BTW- On one of the Vids I watched this morning, two recent CNN polls of 20,000 people, showed that 90% of people polled admit they feel there's more to 911 than our Govt is telling us. I will look for the info direct.

I think, just like most other conspiracy theories, that you're reading too much into this. I don't agree with you about the government, you're not going to change my mind, I have a negative opinion about conspiracy theorists anyways...let's just leave it at that. I won't be saying anything else regarding the topic, because I simply believe, in modest terms, that this theory is crazy.

If you want to keep believing this, have at it. I can't stop you...but I'm done talking about it.

[Evanescence]

I think, just like most other conspiracy theories, that you're reading too much into this. I don't agree with you about the government, you're not going to change my mind, I have a negative opinion about conspiracy theorists anyways...let's just leave it at that. I won't be saying anything else regarding the topic, because I simply believe, in modest terms, that this theory is crazy.

If you want to keep believing this, have at it. I can't stop you...but I'm done talking about it.

I knew right away you were a Bush supporter and trusting of our Govt. Most young folk are trusting of our govt, and thats OK.....for now.

I also knew you had prejudiced opinions about conspiracy theorist...which I am not. These are people who dig and scratch at every dumb coincidence as a means to blame it on a sinister plot etc tc. Thats not me.

I'm a conspiracy realist or conspiracy possibility supporter. There is a huge difference, mainly in logic, common sense and research. See proof below...

On another note, I have a prediction. I believe that within ten years of this post, whether in this life or the next, you will change your mind on this issue, 100%. I feel many of you will as well.

Below, is the first thread made on this subject, 1 year ago. As you will see, I was VERY skeptical of this conspiracy and looking deep at both sides. My how things change in just one year...

http://www.thirdday.com/boards/showthread.php?t=90285&highlight=911+conspiracy+ theories

[Evanescence]

A few points I missed...

Whether you consider the event to be a crime or an act of war, in either case it is the government's responsibility to deal with it. Do you doubt that murderers or rapists are guilty because it was the police who conducted the investigations? Do you doubt that the Nazis operated concentration camps because it was our military who discovered them? No one other than the government had the responsibility, authority, access, or resources to commission an investigation. Whom do you expect to do it? Ford Motor Company?

It still doesn't excuse not questioning the worst act of war on this country ever seen. The point of what i said...about the Govt agencies investigating 911, is that ANY debunking or explaination that has govt agencies connected to it, should be be suspect. I mean, the Truth Movement is essentially saying that the US Govt lied to us about 911 and/or possibly perpetrated this. So, we're gonna allow THEM to explain themselves and believe it? We're gonna take the word of a magazine that used government agencies to explain and defend themselves. Please, thats a joke.

If they had INDEPENDENT sources.....then it could be taken seriously. What other magazines or independent sources have completely debunked the 911 Conspiracy Possibility?

Gandalf, you mentioned you were an engineer....

Hijacked planes hit the towers, which then collapsed. Experts in structures and material sciences say that this was due to the heat from the burning fuel. (My own background in Mechanical Engineering also indicates to me that this is the obvious explanation, and quite likely to be true: while I'm an expert in combustion and thermodynamics rather than structures, it fits what I do know of the topic, and I have substantially more background in the area than a BSEE/physician.) Islamic terrorists, who've been attacking us for years, took credit for it, and continue to do so. In the absence of strong evidence to the contrary, I see no reason to believe that it didn't happen basically as described.


I was a metal fabricator for 10 years and have burned my fair share of steel. In fact, I was burning steel and welding steel structures when some scoffers were in elementray school. I am no engineer, but I DO know a lot about steel frameworks and the heating of metal materials.

I was suspiscious when the 1st tower collapsed after only 25 minutes. It would have taken WAY longer to heat the steel and weaken it. Do buildings have fireproofing? Yes, and indeed the WTC did have it. Jet fuel or not, it wasn't enough time. They screwed up by dropping 3 of them. They should have only demolished 1-2 of them. Three is the smoking gun. Many buildings worldwide, some built LIGHTER than the WTCs burned for hours and their frames never failed. Why these three? And in such a short period of time? Not in a million years.

Common sense would, to me, dicate following Occam's Razor: the simplest explanation is most likely the correct one. A conspiracy theory can never be disproven to its believers, but that doesn't mean it's likely to be true.


Again, confusion. This is NOT a theory. A theory has no proof or evidence. There are dozens of legit film clips from that day that show obvious things that don't line up with the 911 report. This makes it a Conspiracy Possibility.

Common sense tells all of us that if there are a series of coincidences, there must be a strand of truth within. Can any of us deny that we've been duped somehow in the past? Ever have someone trying to get over on you and the odd coincidences kept lining up? You knew deep in your heart, but had to prove it.

Thats what I go by. When there are overwhelming coincidences, dozens of questionable Video clips and hundreds of eyewitnesses, it only stands to reason that somehwere in the middle lies the truth. The problem is, that if even ONE thing about a 911 Conspiracy is true, it makes the whole thing suspect. One strand of truth IS the smoking gun.

We don't need to prove anything. The Truth Movement is calling for an independent investigation. THIS will prove what happened on 9/11. Not a report filled with ommissions and contradictions, from a government that has admitted wanting to do unscrupulous things, to advance an agenda or war.

Again, I love how people say they don't trust our Govt, and feel that we may be in the end times, but yet they won't spend 2 minutes to watch a video, or 15 minutes to investigate the possibility of the greatest coverup in modern human history.

[Evanescence]

Here's a new website by a group of engineers and architects that feel there is suffecient evidence that the WTCs were Controlled Demolition. There are over 400 of these architects, A/E students and engineers that are a part of this group.

I feel it is very compelling info: Architects and Engineers for 911 truth

http://www.ae911truth.org/

I challenge all Americans to check this out.

[teresaUK]

Good for you Evanescance - for not giving up trying to convince people.

I've been studying all this stuff for the past 6 months after I watched the video 'Loose Change' ...... I had always 'felt' that things didn't add up re 9/11 and watching that video confirmed a lot for me and got me on the search for more information.
I've read loads of stuff on it and while I wont believe everything just because it's there........ I will take notice of what qualified people such as scientists have to say.

[Evanescence]

Good for you Evanescance - for not giving up trying to convince people.

I've been studying all this stuff for the past 6 months after I watched the video 'Loose Change' ...... I had always 'felt' that things didn't add up re 9/11 and watching that video confirmed a lot for me and got me on the search for more information.
I've read loads of stuff on it and while I wont believe everything just because it's there........ I will take notice of what qualified people such as scientists have to say.

Just trying to help people see whats really going on....and hopefully stop something really bad from happening again.

Its all right there in front of people...just like a puzzle or magic trick. You just have to connect the dots and think outside the box, politics and religion.

Its funny you brought this up, as i have had numerous requests to do so....but have been hesitant. However, I do have a VERY interesting story to tell in regards to this.

Last Thurs, I was sent to New Jersey to deliver some furniture a customor bought from my boss. The couple moved from DC to upstate New Jersey....just across the river from Manhattan, NYC.

We got their and our GPS messed up, so i called the customer. I was directed in by her, to their condo on the water. She was a lovely, attractive 25-30 yr old woman who was very friendly and talkative.

We dragged the bedroom suit up to the 2nd floor and exchanged in small talk. Again, she was very talkative and our converstaion was very much both sided and engaging. She explained that her husband worked for the State department and they had been transferred from DC. They met in the coast guard where he worked his way up the ranks.

When my buddy left for tools, I looked out their living room window and gazed at Manhatten...the Empire State building staring at me. I decided to probe the lady about 911.

It went like this:

Me: Hey, you have agreat view....alot has changed in 7 years.

Her: Yeah, what a view, we love it.

Me: You know, its ironic I am here looking at NYC like this. Last night, I was on a message board and a very heated debate broke out about 911. They were discussing the possibility about the official story about 911 not bing true. Like some kind of conspiracy. It was really getting heated.

(I then looked directly at her)

Have you ever heard anything about this? Ya, know, about a possible coverup?

Her: (immediately looking away) Ummm...yeah. I think.

(awkward silence)

Me: Yeah, they were saying that there's a lot of weird coincidences and anomolies with 911, like no wreckage at the Pentagon, strange explosions at ground zero prior to the collapse of each tower. Other things that don't line up. Its kinda crazy though...you know, conspiracy theories.

Her: Hmmm...hadn't heard that. She walked away.

Two heating and air conditioning guys walk in and break us up for about 1 minute. I walk to the furniture and start looking at the directions. She returns.

Me: Yeah, so I don't know about all that stuff. Sure, there's always weird coincidences, but a grande conspiracy? I don't buy it...I don't hold much water with conspiracy theorists....

Her: (not looking at me) Yeah.

Later out of the blue she started talking about how DC was designed to confuse terrorists so if they did an attack, they'd get lost. I corrected her by telling her terrorism wasn't around when DC was built/designed and thet the Freemasons designed it. I explained how there are tons of Masonic icons, occult and essoteric art and sculpture throughout the buildings of DC. Again, there was an awkward moment.

The point to all this is that people almost always have TWO thoughts on conspiracy theories. You either believe or you don't. She said NOTHING. She was VERY talkative and asked questions, made quick funny exchanges....very outgoing and funny. But when I brought this up...she got VERY weird about it. If she had loved ones affected, she would have surely chimed up...maybe even got angry.

And, surprise....her husband works for the State Dept. Imagine that...

Coincidence? I think not...

[teresaUK]

Just trying to help people see whats really going on....and hopefully stop something really bad from happening again.

Its all right there in front of people...just like a puzzle or magic trick. You just have to connect the dots and think outside the box, politics and religion.

Its funny you brought this up, as i have had numerous requests to do so....but have been hesitant. However, I do have a VERY interesting story to tell in regards to this.

Last Thurs, I was sent to New Jersey to deliver some furniture a customor bought from my boss. The couple moved from DC to upstate New Jersey....just across the river from Manhattan, NYC.

We got their and our GPS messed up, so i called the customer. I was directed in by her, to their condo on the water. She was a lovely, attractive 25-30 yr old woman who was very friendly and talkative.

We dragged the bedroom suit up to the 2nd floor and exchanged in small talk. Again, she was very talkative and our converstaion was very much both sided and engaging. She explained that her husband worked for the State department and they had been transferred from DC. They met in the coast guard where he worked his way up the ranks.

When my buddy left for tools, I looked out their living room window and gazed at Manhatten...the Empire State building staring at me. I decided to probe the lady about 911.

It went like this:

Me: Hey, you have agreat view....alot has changed in 7 years.

Her: Yeah, what a view, we love it.

Me: You know, its ironic I am here looking at NYC like this. Last night, I was on a message board and a very heated debate broke out about 911. They were discussing the possibility about the official story about 911 not bing true. Like some kind of conspiracy. It was really getting heated.

(I then looked directly at her)

Have you ever heard anything about this? Ya, know, about a possible coverup?

Her: (immediately looking away) Ummm...yeah. I think.

(awkward silence)

Me: Yeah, they were saying that there's a lot of weird coincidences and anomolies with 911, like no wreckage at the Pentagon, strange explosions at ground zero prior to the collapse of each tower. Other things that don't line up. Its kinda crazy though...you know, conspiracy theories.

Her: Hmmm...hadn't heard that. She walked away.

Two heating and air conditioning guys walk in and break us up for about 1 minute. I walk to the furniture and start looking at the directions. She returns.

Me: Yeah, so I don't know about all that stuff. Sure, there's always weird coincidences, but a grande conspiracy? I don't buy it...I don't hold much water with conspiracy theorists....

Her: (not looking at me) Yeah.

Later out of the blue she started talking about how DC was designed to confuse terrorists so if they did an attack, they'd get lost. I corrected her by telling her terrorism wasn't around when DC was built/designed and thet the Freemasons designed it. I explained how there are tons of Masonic icons, occult and essoteric art and sculpture throughout the buildings of DC. Again, there was an awkward moment.

The point to all this is that people almost always have TWO thoughts on conspiracy theories. You either believe or you don't. She said NOTHING. She was VERY talkative and asked questions, made quick funny exchanges....very outgoing and funny. But when I brought this up...she got VERY weird about it. If she had loved ones affected, she would have surely chimed up...maybe even got angry.

And, surprise....her husband works for the State Dept. Imagine that...

Coincidence? I think not...

Thanks for sharing that............... yes - it's obvious she was afraid......
I hesitated before posting on this thread as apparently key words that show up when googled such as 9/11, conspiracy, terrorist etc are all being logged so they know who is anti-government.
What I find amazing is that, here in the u.k., although we have our own government, your FBI has unlimited access to our credit card details and medical history!
Thank God for the internet and freedom of speech - although we must make the most of it before they develop this new internet that will limit what we can talk about and put an end to our video sharing.

[Gandalf]

I've read loads of stuff on it and while I wont believe everything just because it's there........ I will take notice of what qualified people such as scientists have to say.
All the reputable scientists who've studied it are saying that the planes crashed into it, the fire heated the steel, which weakened the structure, it buckled, and the buildings collapsed. It's completely unqualified people like Jeff King (who has no expertise whatsoever in relevant fields of study) who are supporting the conspiracy theories.

There was a conspiracy to take down the WTC, of course - made up of Islamic terrorists!

[Evanescence]

Thanks for sharing that............... yes - it's obvious she was afraid......
I hesitated before posting on this thread as apparently key words that show up when googled such as 9/11, conspiracy, terrorist etc are all being logged so they know who is anti-government.
What I find amazing is that, here in the u.k., although we have our own government, your FBI has unlimited access to our credit card details and medical history!
Thank God for the internet and freedom of speech - although we must make the most of it before they develop this new internet that will limit what we can talk about and put an end to our video sharing.

I am VERY perceptive of people....and whats going on inside their heads. I'm not sure if she was afraid or hiding something, but she certainly was not a good liar. She HAD heard of the ideas floating around and knew something about it. If she thought theorists were kooks, she would have taken the bait when I scoffed at them. Her 180 degree turn in her attitude spelled something going on in her head. The awkwardness also showed this...

It doesn't surprise me that the FBI and our government has infiltrated your country and its privacy. Its all part of the plan.

All the reputable scientists who've studied it are saying that the planes crashed into it, the fire heated the steel, which weakened the structure, it buckled, and the buildings collapsed. It's completely unqualified people like Jeff King (who has no expertise whatsoever in relevant fields of study) who are supporting the conspiracy theories.

There was a conspiracy to take down the WTC, of course - made up of Islamic terrorists!

There are HUNDREDS of qualified, reputable experts demanding answers. Ex-military, Senior Military, federal workers, politicians, fire and emergency personell, architects and engineers and all sorts of other people are demanding answers. The holes in the governments "conspiracy theory" are enormous.

See some here: www.patriotsquestion911.o rg

There are over 400 of these people and their testimonies here.

Its the perfect situation. Create chaos, then the masses give up their liberties for control. Everything chnaged after 9/11....no one can deny that. It was the catalyst for what our world is like now. Everywhere we trun, the "war on terror" is being shoved in our face. They created a Boogieman in these Islamic Terrorists....apparitions to scare us into giving up our rights and believing tall claims of hijacked planes and rising terror levels. Sure they exist but they've become patsies for this false-flag attack, with an agenda that we are yet to understand.

After 9/11, people became angry at the Middle East...myself included, and wnated revenge. Then, we became the superheros of the world...."lets make the world a better place and rid the world of evil doers." Meanwhile, we can't even find out who we're after and how to stop the Billions in heroine and Cocaine convenienty coming out of Afghanistan. We want to police the world because of 9/11. Its our excuse. There's no country to invade, no real leader to kill. Just small cells of terrorists to chanse after, while Big brother keeps inching forward.

Those of us who are skeptics are few and far. Reps will never even spend 5 minutes looking into this. Even with no conclusions drawn, the President and his axis are right and is to be followed. Any government worker, military or ex-military won't look into this. They scoff and mudsling.

The young and unsuspecting are too busy slacking, taking their meds and mooching off their parents. What decent kids that are out there are busy with school, ready to hit college so they can make that illusive 100K per year and get them benefits. Baby boomers probably will admit they feel JFK was killed by someone else, but won't even look into a 9/11 Conspiracy Probability. No one in a professional position or politics will admit they believe or have even studied this.

So, that leaves a small percentage of "crackpots" to figure this out....and to petition Congress to start telling the truth. Its an uphill battle but I think the tide is turning.

I predict the two following things:

1. The Truth movement will continue to grow and you will here more and more about this....maybe even in the mainstream media. The evidence is so overwhelming that this certainly won't go away.

2. I believe we may see another "false-flag" attack in the next 1-2 years. Of course we'll be fed some line about terrorists etc etc, but some of us will know whats going on. This will only add to the "we told you so" crap the media and government will feed us. It'll keep the nightmare alive, thus our need for them to protect us. Chaos and control.

The official 9/11 story is so absurd and full of literally dozens of questionable things, coincidences and anomolies, that people will only continue to question it and demand answers. Only then, can we get some true peace and prosecute the true perpetrators of this horrific crime and the manipulation the criminals fed us. In the meantime, we border on a police state that is slowly growing.

[bvc]

Yes, as my wife just recalled me saying on 9/11 when it happened live on TV, these buildings could not have fallen as they did without help (outside of God's power). It's common sense to anyone that has ever played with wooden building blocks as a kid :D OK, well I played with legos and cards too, not to mention built houses, commercial carpentry, fireplace installation and building code. Before they fell I said the establishment was behind it. The initial impact, fast airplane fuel fire/heat would only have weakened the top of the buildings and the rest of the buildings easily would have withstood the weight and fall of the upper section that received initial destruction. What these highly qualified experts have revealed has only verified what I already knew. You are not alone E. Carry on!

[Evanescence]

Yes, as my wife just recalled me saying on 9/11 when it happened live on TV, these buildings could not have fallen as they did without help (outside of God's power). It's common sense to anyone that has ever played with wooden building blocks as a kid :D OK, well I played with legos and cards too, not to mention built houses, commercial carpentry, fireplace installation and building code. Before they fell I said the establishment was behind it. The initial impact, fast airplane fuel fire/heat would only have weakened the top of the buildings and the rest of the buildings easily would have withstood the weight and fall of the upper section that received initial destruction. What these highly qualified experts have revealed has only verified what I already knew. You are not alone E. Carry on!

Hmmmm....interesting, a brave soul comes forth.

I struggled with many of the claims within the Truth Movement in regards to 9/11, but there are just way too many coincidences. Things that should not have happened. Too many easy explanations.

Once you see how the magic trick could be done....it seems simple.

Are you watching closely? :cool:

[teresaUK]

I also would say watch Big Ben in London .......... it's having six weeks of maintenence (although it's been working perfectly for decades)........... for it's birthday celebrations later in the year...........
I wouldn't be surprised if it was brought down by 'terrorists' before the year is out. But maybe I'm just cynical......but after 7/7 tube bombings....where there is so much evidence that it was goverment or MI5 organised.........the metal floor of the carriage was blown inwards which points to a device on the outside and underneath the carriage, not from a backpack on someone inside. Also, the amazing co-incidence that there were terror drills going on -on the same dayat the same time and at the same stations as where the bombs went off. They did the statistics and it went right off the scale ....into a huge number that was bigger than trillions to one of the likelyhood of that happening.

[Evanescence]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=Wn4Yx1MTgfQ

I found this a few days ago....

From April 2007:

During a town hall meeting, John Kerry admits that Building 7 was a controlled demolition when asked about it and the lease holder, Larry Silverstein's 5 Billion dollar settlement...

Such a surprise....:rolleyes:

[Gandalf]

If it had been intentionally demolished, do you think Kerry would've known about it? And if he had, do you think he wouldn't have said anything during the 2004 Presidential election? Really...

[Evanescence]

If it had been intentionally demolished, do you think Kerry would've known about it? And if he had, do you think he wouldn't have said anything during the 2004 Presidential election? Really...

There's no doubt that many of our politicians know what REALLY happened, but it would be career suicide...or worse to go public. But some have been vocal about its inconsistencies.

I think it was a slip, but a slip none the less...

YouTube took off the 4 min clip, which had the girl ask him about it at the beginning of the interview session. He and his wife became visably uncomfortable....frazzled ... with the question....and then again for the 2nd one which is posted here. He's a mess with words.

These high-level people found the real truth about 9/11 long after it happened, I'm sure of that. They know many other things as well...

[Gandalf]

He's always a mess with words - did you see the 2004 Presidential debates? He gave such non-answers that Bush looked articulate. :)

How would it have been career suicide for him to blame Bush for bringing down the towers, if it were true? If true, he could've used it to help win the election and bring Bush down. The Democrats and media both love blaming Bush for all sorts of things - they'd have eaten it up!

[clemsontigers23]

I saw where people in New Orleans were booing Bush, as if the hurricane was his fault. They sent all kinds of money down there...people who didn't even need the money got $2,000. Where did the money end up? In some politician's pockets, more than likely.

Bush is not the root of all evil. Stop acting like he is. You sound ignorant when you do so.

[Evanescence]

I saw where people in New Orleans were booing Bush, as if the hurricane was his fault. They sent all kinds of money down there...people who didn't even need the money got $2,000. Where did the money end up? In some politician's pockets, more than likely.

Bush is not the root of all evil. Stop acting like he is. You sound ignorant when you do so.

I certainly didn't say anything about Bush....but...

Katrina was a enormous screw up on his part. His vacationing during the whole thing was just sickening....

[Evanescence]

He's always a mess with words - did you see the 2004 Presidential debates? He gave such non-answers that Bush looked articulate. :)

How would it have been career suicide for him to blame Bush for bringing down the towers, if it were true? If true, he could've used it to help win the election and bring Bush down. The Democrats and media both love blaming Bush for all sorts of things - they'd have eaten it up!

Anyone who even mentions this idea of a conspiracy is labeled a nutcase, it certianly would be career suicide. Heck, you think Michael Moore hasn't researched this? You think he wasn't aware of it while making F-911? Its WAY too deep and sinister for the average American to comprehend. You can bash Bush on the little things, but implicate the Federal Govt in the greatest coverup in human history and you'll be labeled a kook. MM wasn't stupid. He never breathed it.

If this comes out...in full force and people are prosecuted, there will be dangerous times for the US. We'll be on the verge of a revolution. But, it won't. I'm afraid it will disappear intot he anals of history and talked about 50 yrs from now. People will believe it then and we'll be in a police state. NOW will be here.

[Gandalf]

Katrina was a enormous screw up on his part. His vacationing during the whole thing was just sickening....
What should he have done when he found out? Gone out in a boat and told the wind to stop? :)

[Evanescence]

What should he have done when he found out? Gone out in a boat and told the wind to stop? :)

I'm not even a Meterologist (even though my wife says i should be) and I could tell it was going to be a BAD storm.....a BAD hit. I would have left long before it hit and went somewhere I could monitor the situation...somewhere close. Any dork could tell it was going to be one of the worst natural disasters to ever hit. He should have been right there, nearby, preparing for the worse.

The aftermath is just as bad and the lack of funds and organization of help as well. We borrowed money for Katrina because we're in debt over our heads with Iraq. We were ill prepared.

I have serious problems with these Presidents and lawmakers who take off 4 weeks for vacation. It shouldnt be allowed.

[Gandalf]

I'm not even a Meterologist (even though my wife says i should be) and I could tell it was going to be a BAD storm.....a BAD hit. I would have left long before it hit and went somewhere I could monitor the situation...somewhere close. Any dork could tell it was going to be one of the worst natural disasters to ever hit. He should have been right there, nearby, preparing for the worse.
Crawford, TX is no further from the Gulf Coast than Washington, DC, if your desire is for him to be close when it hits (not sure what that'd gain, other than putting him in danger)? He wasn't out of communication, and he declared a state of emergency in LA, MS, and AL two days before the hurricane made landfall. He flew over to survey the damage basically as soon as the weather was clear enough to do so (3 days after the storm made landfall). I'm not saying he's handled every issue correctly (border security for example), but I really don't understand the criticism on this one. He couldn't have stopped the storm. He couldn't have done anything any sooner to help people recover. All he could have done would be to hold a press conference in DC instead of sitting in TX while everyone waited for it to blow over. I guess that would've gotten him some publicity, but it wouldn't have changed anything substantial.

I have relatives in the Biloxi area; I saw the damage first-hand that fall. I, for one, am glad that the President was far from the area while the storm was there, since it would have unnecessarily endangered him to be present. There may be things he could've done better from the perspective of playing politics with it and making himself look "involved" but I've yet to see an explanation of how it would've been helpful for him to fly from TX to DC before the storm, only to go back south to survey the damage after the storm had cleared. He would've flown over New Orleans the same day that he did either way, and spent more money in jet fuel to go back and forth in the meantime. What's the advantage? He had already declared a state of emergency, allowing the federal government to assist as soon as the states requested it.
I have serious problems with these Presidents and lawmakers who take off 4 weeks for vacation. It shouldnt be allowed.
The President being "on vacation" isn't really the same as other people - he is still in contact with top officials and surrounded by Secret Service. If anything major happens that requires attention, he knows immediately. He just isn't sitting at his desk signing bills or entertaining diplomats. It's not as if he can ever really get away and be totally out of contact. I do agree that lawmakers take too much vacation though... at least they can't write more bad laws when they're not there. ;)

If there's something that should've been done differently, I don't have any problem with people pointing it out, but I really haven't heard a single suggestion on this that amounts to anything more than "something bad happened: let's blame Bush!" He didn't cause the storm - it was an act of God. He couldn't have prevented the storm. He had already done everything possible to authorize a response once it blew over. So what if he was waiting it out in TX instead of DC?

In hindsight, maybe a better choice for the head of FEMA would've been helpful ... though FEMA's response was actually about average compared to past storms, and this was the worst storm since it has existed. The magnitude of the devastation was simply too great for any organization, even one with the resources of the US government, to come in and make things better instantly ... but maybe a better choice of personnel could've slightly improved the efficiency of the response. I really can't see how the President being somewhere other than TX when the storm hit MS and LA could've made the slightest bit of difference though.

[clemsontigers23]

I'm not even a Meterologist (even though my wife says i should be) and I could tell it was going to be a BAD storm.....a BAD hit. I would have left long before it hit and went somewhere I could monitor the situation...somewhere close. Any dork could tell it was going to be one of the worst natural disasters to ever hit. He should have been right there, nearby, preparing for the worse.

The aftermath is just as bad and the lack of funds and organization of help as well. We borrowed money for Katrina because we're in debt over our heads with Iraq. We were ill prepared.

I have serious problems with these Presidents and lawmakers who take off 4 weeks for vacation. It shouldnt be allowed.

How is him being there going to do any good? Bush doesn't control hurricanes...God does. You got an issue with it, take it up with God, not Bush.

God obviously has a purpose and this was obviously a trial and maybe a judgment over the way New Orleans has things such as Mardi Gras and Gay Pride parades. Did you know Katrina hit a week before the annual Gay Pride march? It was obviously a warning, just as 9/11 was.

Anyways, Bush couldn't have done anything. If it's anyone's fault, it's those people who didn't get out when they were supposed to (who could have gotten out) and the people who built the levees (and the city for that matter) the way it was. I mean really, who builds a city on the gulf coast below sea level?

I heard that on the night the storm hit people were having hurricane parties. Some people down there just didn't get it.

As far as you're comment about MM, he is the biggest propagandist in media today. He presents one side of the story, and one side only, then gets defensive whenever someone questions his beliefs, like when he told off Wolf Blitzer and CNN for asking a simple question.

Also, most people close to him say he's obsessed with money and getting rich. Most of these Democrats who are for the "common man" are people like Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama who have multi-million dollar homes and private jets.

[Gandalf]

I mean really, who builds a city on the gulf coast below sea level?
The French. Maybe we should send them the bill. ;)

I heard that on the night the storm hit people were having hurricane parties. Some people down there just didn't get it.
That's not uncommon in hurricane-prone areas, actually. The prevailing attitude is often that they've weathered storms before, why would this one be any different? I know in the Midwest, we don't all go running for shelter every time there's a tornado watch. Unfortunately, in this case, it was a category 5 storm with a massive storm surge.
Also, most people close to him say he's obsessed with money and getting rich. Most of these Democrats who are for the "common man" are people like Al Gore, Hillary Clinton, and Barack Obama who have multi-million dollar homes and private jets.
Not sure that's relevant... most of America is obsessed with money, and most politicians, on either side of the aisle, are rich.

[clemsontigers23]

Not sure that's relevant... most of America is obsessed with money, and most politicians, on either side of the aisle, are rich.

Well, in this case it's unique because the Democrats try to appeal to poor America and try to make themselves out to be the people's candidate and at the same time criticizing Republicans for being obsessed with money when they themselves might be even worse than Republicans. It's both sides, but at least Republicans aren't trying to appeal to poor people or save the environment when George W. Bush has a more environmentally friendly house than Al Gore does.

[blacksheep]

Ummm, I was in New Orleans about 48 hours after Katrina and for Rita. I will say straight out that the responsibility should be placed squarely on the shoulders of the local government and the populace. I've never been to an American city so devoid of morals. Why didn't the recent flooding in the Midwest produce the same kind of looting? I mean the people in New Orleans shot down a helicopter! A helicopter that was there to help! It was only after Bush sent over 5,000 army paratroopers, with real bullets, that the crime stopped. Now of course, those people I am speaking of are the minority, and most people that were stuck there did nothing wrong, but there was certainly a high percentage of miscreants in that city. The only reason Bush was blamed was because it made political sense.

I agree with making France pay for it:D

[Evanescence]

Ummm, I was in New Orleans about 48 hours after Katrina and for Rita. I will say straight out that the responsibility should be placed squarely on the shoulders of the local government and the populace. I've never been to an American city so devoid of morals. Why didn't the recent flooding in the Midwest produce the same kind of looting? I mean the people in New Orleans shot down a helicopter! A helicopter that was there to help! It was only after Bush sent over 5,000 army paratroopers, with real bullets, that the crime stopped. Now of course, those people I am speaking of are the minority, and most people that were stuck there did nothing wrong, but there was certainly a high percentage of miscreants in that city. The only reason Bush was blamed was because it made political sense.

I agree with making France pay for it:D

I agree, and I'm not saying Bush was 100% responsible for it....but partially. He agrees.....hence the apology for lack of preparedness.

The state and local govt is also responsible....the govt is a team effort, Federal, state and local.

If I had Bush's past track record, prior to Katrina, I would have stepped up and at least made it look like I was trying. To me, it was just business as usual. Slacking.

[Parrot1965]

Forgive me for throwing this in, and seeming kind of random. I don't trust everything our government says or does out of hand, but I have a hard time believing that 9/11 was a government plot. What Americans, out of a politically correct, moderate or peace-love-&-understanding kind of attitude, don't want to believe, is that the Islamic faith is one of hate, death and destruction. When the Palestinian movement began in the Middle East, when many of us on this board were babies or not even born yet, Americans didn't have a clue, didn't know, didn't care, or whatever.

I just read an informative book written by a Lebanese woman who survived to tell her story, to wake up the United States about the truth of Islam, moderate or fundamental. What happened 6 years ago next month was real and was done with purpose. They hate us. They hate Israel. If you are not a Muslim, you are an infidel, period. The book is called Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America by Brigitte Gabriel. Here's a link to it on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Because-They-Hate-Survivor-Islamic/dp/0312358377/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1908488-2461443?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188587648&sr=8-1

[clemsontigers23]

Forgive me for throwing this in, and seeming kind of random. I don't trust everything our government says or does out of hand, but I have a hard time believing that 9/11 was a government plot. What Americans, out of a politically correct, moderate or peace-love-&-understanding kind of attitude, don't want to believe, is that the Islamic faith is one of hate, death and destruction. When the Palestinian movement began in the Middle East, when many of us on this board were babies or not even born yet, Americans didn't have a clue, didn't know, didn't care, or whatever.

I just read an informative book written by a Lebanese woman who survived to tell her story, to wake up the United States about the truth of Islam, moderate or fundamental. What happened 6 years ago next month was real and was done with purpose. They hate us. They hate Israel. If you are not a Muslim, you are an infidel, period. The book is called Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America by Brigitte Gabriel. Here's a link to it on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Because-They-Hate-Survivor-Islamic/dp/0312358377/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1908488-2461443?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188587648&sr=8-1

Exactly. I agree.

[Evanescence]

Forgive me for throwing this in, and seeming kind of random. I don't trust everything our government says or does out of hand, but I have a hard time believing that 9/11 was a government plot. What Americans, out of a politically correct, moderate or peace-love-&-understanding kind of attitude, don't want to believe, is that the Islamic faith is one of hate, death and destruction. When the Palestinian movement began in the Middle East, when many of us on this board were babies or not even born yet, Americans didn't have a clue, didn't know, didn't care, or whatever.

I just read an informative book written by a Lebanese woman who survived to tell her story, to wake up the United States about the truth of Islam, moderate or fundamental. What happened 6 years ago next month was real and was done with purpose. They hate us. They hate Israel. If you are not a Muslim, you are an infidel, period. The book is called Because They Hate: A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America by Brigitte Gabriel. Here's a link to it on Amazon.com: http://www.amazon.com/Because-They-Hate-Survivor-Islamic/dp/0312358377/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/103-1908488-2461443?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1188587648&sr=8-1

This is why we should be skeptical...

It was the perfect excuse for a paradigm shift in our Post Modern World. It was the perfect way to open a door into sophisticated technology for tracking and complete control. Through our fear of "terror" we will give up our freedoms and liberties so we can let the Govt protect us. And this has indeed happened. Everything has lined up perfectly.

Regardless who did what. 9/11 was the catalyst for our new world today and now millions of people have researched and come forth with information that seriously questions the official account. If you don't fully trust our Govt, which 95% of us don't, then you should take a LONG and serious look at this. Then act if you feel inspired to.

Did anyone see the YouTube video with Kerry? Nothing political...no tricks...just a politician who got caught with his pants down.

[Evanescence]

For those few folks who are actually researching this, here is a short video where two guys practically melt a car with just 2 jugs of Thermite. A Professor at BYU did an extensive research proejct on WTC debirs and has indeed found large traces of Thermite in the debris.

Thermite is used in DEMOLITIONS as a way to chemically melt steel. Its patented and widely used. These guys are talk-show dorks, so imagine what a trained professional could do?

http://www.guzer.com/videos/thermite_car.php

[Parrot1965]

I just wasted half my life on You Tube watching about a dozen 9/11 videos. Now I'm officially depressed, and I still have to make dinner- uughh!

Man, all this makes me want the second coming of Christ to hurry, hurry, hurry! There is so much information out there, and it's hard to discern what's true. For example, I never heard the idea that Flight 93 was allegedly shot down (which might explain why there was no large debris left after the plane crashed).

[Evanescence]

I just wasted half my life on You Tube watching about a dozen 9/11 videos. Now I'm officially depressed, and I still have to make dinner- uughh!

Man, all this makes me want the second coming of Christ to hurry, hurry, hurry! There is so much information out there, and it's hard to discern what's true. For example, I never heard the idea that Flight 93 was allegedly shot down (which might explain why there was no large debris left after the plane crashed).

Not to worry Parrot, the truth is refreshing once you put down all prejudice, biased opinions and denial.

For the first time in my research, I actually watched ALL of Loose Change. While there is some surmising and guessing, I feel 95% of it is well researched and accurate. Its rumored that its coming to theaters and I think its great that it is available FREE on the web.

It was actually better than i thought and I looked at it with a VERY open mind and discerning heart. Once again, like many things in life...too many coincidences can't be a good thing. Too many coincidences along with your gut feeling almost add up to trouble. Millions upon millions in the Truth Movement feel the same way and want answers.

YouTube has the Loose Change video for free viewing, along with several others...including debunking Vids.