Is the Pope embracing evolution?

[Jason]

Is the Pope embracing evolution?

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/EJMontini/4150

[Valpo]

they have been for a while....this is news?

[Jason]

they have been for a while....this is news?

Well it was news to me.

[Valpo]

check out Papa Juan Paul's works...he gets into the evolution theory and how it is a-ok as is presented by even atheistic scientists today (rome just adds God into the mix).

[clemsontigers23]

lol

I think I've made my views known already.

[middletree]

Is the Pope embracing evolution?

http://www.azcentral.com/members/Blog/EJMontini/4150

I don't see anything in that short quote from the pope that I can argue with. I absolutely believe that Adam was a man made by God from the dust, and did not evolve from lower forms of life. However, that does not prevent me from believing that evolution in species has occurred outside of that. I don't see anything in Scripture that makes a case either way.

[Valpo]

the catholic church has widely accepted evolution that discedits an adam and eve...clearly your interpretation is more sound and there is nothing inherently unbiblical about it

[middletree]

the catholic church has widely accepted evolution that discedits an adam and eve

Not being Catholic, I didn't realize this. Thanks for clarifying.

Having said that, I have run into many Christians who have made the claim that all God's creatures are in the same form they were created in, and could not have evolved. They also claim that there is no fossil record of transitional species. Some even claim that dinosaurs were destroyed in the flood. None of these positions is defensible by the bible or by facts. This is just one more bit of evidence of how the power of the Internet can propogate good things, but can also be used to disseminate bad information very quickly and thoroughly (and yes, I am referring to the Answers in Genesis website.)

[Valpo]

that being said as a catholic one can still believe in adam and eve, but it is becoming more and more silly to believe in such a thing according to most

[middletree]

that being said as a catholic one can still believe in adam and eve, but it is becoming more and more silly to believe in such a thing according to most

Yep. That's because they value human reasoning over Scripture. I had an 8-hour conversation with a Catholic about this once.

[Valpo]

Yep. That's because they value human reasoning over Scripture. I had an 8-hour conversation with a Catholic about this once.

yeah ive had many a conversation with devout catholics, I know what you mean

[Sana Banana]

Catholics are to believe that all humans descend from one man and one woman and that God created all things, but we do not have to hold to a fundamentalist interpretation of creation as told in the Scriptures.

Also, we do not value reason over Scripture:
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Paragraph 50:
"By natural reason man can know God with certainty, on the basis of his works.
But there is another order of knowledge, which man can possibly arrive at by his own powers: the order of divine Revelation


The Catholic Church acknowledges the need for Revelation, because of the limits of reason. Part of God's Revelation is Sacred Scripture.

[clemsontigers23]

Catholics are to believe that all humans descend from one man and one woman and that God created all things, but we do not have to hold to a fundamentalist interpretation of creation as told in the Scriptures.

Also, we do not value reason over Scripture:
Catechism of the Catholic Church, Paragraph 50:


The Catholic Church acknowledges the need for Revelation, because of the limits of reason. Part of God's Revelation is Sacred Scripture.

You don't believe what Scripture says about creation?

[RevZeek]

I wasn't aware of it either. Thanks for the info y'all.

PS: Sana?! Wow, now THAT's a name I haven't seen here in a LONG time! Hope you're well!

[Sana Banana]

You don't believe what Scripture says about creation?

I believe what the Scripture says about creation, but that does not mean I have to believe that the world was created in six, 24 hour days. Though, I do believe God created the world with a sense of order. Part of interpreting Scripture is looking at the literary form and understanding what it is meant to literally portray. That is why Catholics can accept some form of evolution.

Personally, however, I do not believe that human's evolved from a lower animal that has no reason. But I do accept the scientific understanding of micro-evolution that genes change and evolve over time. i.e. Humans are taller now that they have been in the past. Though part of that is nutrition.

[clemsontigers23]

I believe what the Scripture says about creation, but that does not mean I have to believe that the world was created in six, 24 hour days. Though, I do believe God created the world with a sense of order. Part of interpreting Scripture is looking at the literary form and understanding what it is meant to literally portray. That is why Catholics can accept some form of evolution.

Personally, however, I do not believe that human's evolved from a lower animal that has no reason. But I do accept the scientific understanding of micro-evolution that genes change and evolve over time. i.e. Humans are taller now that they have been in the past. Though part of that is nutrition.

Scripture uses the word "day" and because God rested on the seventh day we are instructed to rest on that day as well and keep it holy...the Sabbath. I believe that God is so immensely powerful that he created all of this in seven literal days. I understand you have to look at some scripture in a literary form, but I think Genesis 1 is pretty literal and straight forward.

Hey, there are Protestants who disagree on that one, so that's not a Catholic thing.

You're not talking about evolution...you're delving into natural selection. There's no reason not to believe natural selection...but I think it's irrelevant. God created every living thing, and that's what matters. It doesn't say things evolved, so there's nothing that can scripturally back that, and thus no reason to believe in it, especially when the science on it is so faulty.

But I'm glad to hear you don't believe we came from monkeys.

[MadCatholicGomer]

the catholic church has widely accepted evolution that discedits an adam and eve...clearly your interpretation is more sound and there is nothing inherently unbiblical about it


Actually, this is both true and not true. A Catholic MUST believe that there is an original set of parents, an Adam and Eve, before whom there were no human beings, the first material creation to receive an immortal soul, who were created in a state of original justice and holiness by the gift of God, and who have fallen and therefore lost that gift (won for us again in Jesus) by there own personal sin.

However, one does not have to believe that this took place 6,000 years ago. "Adam and Eve" in Catholic theology, could have taken place, supposedly, thousands of years previous to that.

I don't believe that, but it is an acceptable Catholic position.

[MadCatholicGomer]

Yep. That's because they value human reasoning over Scripture. I had an 8-hour conversation with a Catholic about this once.


One conversation with a Catholic does not a "knowledgable about Catholicism" person make. First of all, it isn't even necessarily true that this person you spoke to actually knows what the Church teaches.

I don't accept that human reasoning is more valuable than Scripture (nor does the Church): "Where is the wise one? Where is the scribe? Where is the debater of this age? Has not God made the wisdom of the world foolish? " 1 Corinthians 1:20

[middletree]

I didn't elaborate but I will now. My friend was a Baptist, going to a Baptist Seminary, when during the course of his studies, he decided that Catholicism was the way to go. He learned a lot about your faith system in a couple of years, and that's when we drove down to South Padre (an 8-hour drive from here) and discussed it, but we also discussed it several other times.

The reason I said that the Catholic church believes in human reason over Scripture is not only because he said it, but because he lived it, and because he provided me with materials which led me to believe that this is the Catholic way.

BTW, he ended up cheating on his wife numerous times, finally divorcing her. Still a big defender of Catholicism to this day.

[MadCatholicGomer]

I didn't elaborate but I will now. My friend was a Baptist, going to a Baptist Seminary, when during the course of his studies, he decided that Catholicism was the way to go. He learned a lot about your faith system in a couple of years, and that's when we drove down to South Padre (an 8-hour drive from here) and discussed it, but we also discussed it several other times.

The reason I said that the Catholic church believes in human reason over Scripture is not only because he said it, but because he lived it, and because he provided me with materials which led me to believe that this is the Catholic way.

What materials are you talking about? You have to be more specific than that.



BTW, he ended up cheating on his wife numerous times, finally divorcing her. Still a big defender of Catholicism to this day.


I certainly hope you are not making the ridiculous assertion that he cheated on her because he became Catholic and if he had remained a Baptist, he would never have done so.

[middletree]

What materials are you talking about? You have to be more specific than that.

I cannot recall exactly. I remember one was audio of a debate about Solo Scriptura between a Protestant and a Catholic.

I certainly hope you are not making the ridiculous assertion that he cheated on her because he became Catholic and if he had remained a Baptist, he would never have done so.

Of course not. I was saying that he clearly wasn't as close to God as he thought he was.

[MadCatholicGomer]

I cannot recall exactly. I remember one was audio of a debate about Solo Scriptura between a Protestant and a Catholic.



Of course not. I was saying that he clearly wasn't as close to God as he thought he was.

Okay... so a debate in which a Catholic says that protestants misinterpret the Bible means that Catholics disregard the Bible for human tradition?

And by the way, just because someone doesn't obey the truth, it doesn't mean that he hasn't found the truth.

[middletree]

Okay... so a debate in which a Catholic says that protestants misinterpret the Bible means that Catholics disregard the Bible for human tradition?


Not sure where you got that from. A Catholic and Protestant, both of whom clearly were well-versed in their respective belief systems, debated about Solo Scriptura. My interpretation of the Catholic man's arguments came down to his ranking human reasoning over Scripture. He made it clear that he thought he was representing the views of the Catholic Church.