Harry Potter - do you read/watch or allow your child to read/watch it?

[ausgirl]

With the new Harry Potter movie about to be released here in Aus, it got me thinking what the general view on this is.......

Opinions with reasons why please!

[kiwisongbird]

Andre - now 15 - is reading the books for the first time... they came out when he was about 7 or 8 and lots of his friends were reading them - I thought it was too full of magic etc for him to read at that age. he's really enjoying them.

I read the first one a few weeks ago - can't see why people think they're well written personally...

My opinion has always been there is so much more good literature for my kids to read, why let them read HP?

Also, the fact that the Wicca website had significantly more hits when the first book came out concerns me. Also the writer says (I've seen it in an interview with her) that Harry 'appeared' to her when she was riding on a train.

The stuff you can buy to go with the books concerns me too - why would we want our little children reading books that then encourages them to want to buy books with spells etc in them?

I believe that Andre is now old enough to make up is own mind about what he reads (MOSTLY) - I've told him though that if he wants to read Stephen King, he can wait until he's not living with us. :) :)

Nicodemus is another kettle of fish, he is so interested in occultic things that I don't think he will be able to read HP for quite a while longer.

Be interested to read other opinions on this too :)

[clemsontigers23]

I'm 17 and I read the first book and I've actually seen a couple of the movies. I think it really depends on how strong in your faith you are. Harry Potter doesn't interest me and hasn't really ever since I got saved. It is witchcraft and I wouldn't take a chance by letting my kids read it if I was a parent. Witchcraft and such is definitely frowned upon in the Bible so I think it's best if Christians don't get interested in something that glorifies occultic activities. The author herself said this about the influence Harry Potter has on children and it is scary:

"I get letters from children addressed to Professor Dumbledore [headmaster at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, the books’ setting], and it’s not a joke, begging to be let into Hogwarts, and some of them are really sad. Because they want it to be true so badly they’ve convinced themselves it’s true." J.K. Rowling

[freakysoccer]

I'm 17 and if i had kids i don't think i would let them read it. I have attemped to read the first book and didn't care for it; not only because of the whitchcraft but because i think there's better things you can read to pass the time.

[maui sista]

I have never seen them but I think its the same kinda thing as Lord of the Rings right?

If I had kids would not let them watch them until they are older.

[mindyhere]

I let my kids read the books and see the movies. I have 3 boys ages 14, 11 and 9. They know this stuff isn't real, and that it's only entertainment, so I have no problems with it at all.

[Andi]

I have read all the books out so far, have seen all the movies (except the newest one out) and pre-ordered the last book which will be here next week.

At my "old" age - I can easily disern between fiction and non-fiction. I can sit and read the books and watch the movies from the same perspective that I would watch LOTR or Aliens. It is fiction to me. And I have thoroughly enjoyed the Harry Potter series and will probably have a small tear in my eye as I read the last chapter of the final installment.

Now - that being said....

I will not let my kids read the books or watch the movies until I believe they are ready. Which may be never - who knows?

I have read many posts where the opinion stated is that "we as Christians, should not either entertain the idea of witchcraft or be interested in the occult/witchcraft. And to steer clear of all of it." Which is fine. But I have to say, at least for myself, that in watching a movie or reading a book such as Harry Potter - I am no more entertaining the notion of witchcraft as I would be watching X-Men - hoping one day I could start a fire by thinking about it. :rolleyes:

[Musicdude]

I really enjoyed all the Harry Potter movies I've seen so far, and look forward to the new one.

It's just a fictional movie. It doesn't claim to be anything else.

My fiance on the other hand doesn't like the idea of HP, and doesn't want our kids watching it, when we have kids. I imagine we will have an argument or two about that. But it will be a while before that is an issue, and the HP craze will have died down quite a bit by then.

If you are going to not let your kids watch anything that even has hints of evil in it, you better go ahead and just throw the TV in the garbage can (and a lot of books too, and the internet and radio). Teach your kids right and wrong according to God's word, and they will make right decisions. But you can't just hope to keep them on the straight and narrow by putting blinders on them so they can't see the other paths.

[Musicdude]

I have read many posts where the opinion stated is that "we as Christians, should not either entertain the idea of witchcraft or be interested in the occult/witchcraft. And to steer clear of all of it." Which is fine. But I have to say, at least for myself, that in watching a movie or reading a book such as Harry Potter - I am no more entertaining the notion of witchcraft as I would be watching X-Men - hoping one day I could start a fire by thinking about it. :rolleyes:

Agreed.

We as Christians should also not entertain the idea of adultery, lust, fornication, hatred, violence, murder, rape, abuse, drugs, lust of money, and on and on and on. But if you truly want to steer clear of all those things, you'd better throw out all of your movies.

Shrek has magic in it too, i.e. fairy godmother. Is that inappropriate for kids?
Look at the Wizard of Oz. That had a couple of witches in it. And one of them was good and beautiful, glamourizing witchcraft. Mickey mouse was a wizard in Fantasia. Sleeping Beauty had four witches, three of which were good witches. Cinderella had a fairy godmother. Hanzel and Grettal had a witch. I remember a witch on Bugs Bunny. There was magic on Beauty and the Beast. Aladin had a genie. Little mermaid had a witch. The list goes on.
Usually the witches in these kids movies are bad characters, but as I have pointed out they are good sometimes too, thus glamourizing witchcraft, no? If you forbid your children from watching Harry Potter, yet allow them to watch any of the other films I mentioned, you have a double-standard.

Why is Harry Potter being raked over the coals, whenever just about every Disney movie ever made had witchcraft in it? And Disney isn't the only one doing this. Pixar, Warner Bros., etc. are all guilty of it. Because magic is fun, and exciting. Fairy tales are fascinating. And kept in perspective they are completely harmless.

And what about mom and dad? Is it wrong for your kids to watch anything that has even the hint of evil in it? But it's ok for you to watch movies with rape, murder, lust, sex, adultery, hate, cursing, drugs, violence?

[middletree]

I will not let my kids watch it. The difference to me is that in Lord of the Rings, witchcraft is not being glorified. Plus, the author ot LOTR was a Christian who intentionally put in elements that were metaphors for a spiritual principle. In other words, the LOTR story was about the journey to Mt Doom, not about sorcery. Harry Potter, on the other hand is about sorcery.

Having said this, I am in favor of books which get kids to read, so I am not judging other parents who let their kids read the books.

[middletree]

I have read many posts where the opinion stated is that "we as Christians, should not either entertain the idea of witchcraft or be interested in the occult/witchcraft. hoping one day I could start a fire by thinking about it. :rolleyes:

I really wish people wouldn't insert the rolling eyes thing when discussing the viewpoints of others.

[Psycho Mom]

I love these books as much as my kids. We have seen the movies as well. Since it has been a while between books, my son and I have re read them this summer anticipating number 7 to see how everything ends. I was talking with a friend of mine the other night who has just started reading them and we were laughing about how these kids go through all the normal emotions of kids that age and how every kid at the school is typical of kids that we went to school with; the bully, the misfit, the pretty girl, the jock boy, the brain. There is just one twist, in that they are learning to do magic. I have never found them harmful. My son started reading them I think in the 4th grade and is now a senior in high school. They are very easy reads. I know there are pros and cons on both sides, but they did not influence my son one way or the other. Just a fantasy book. That has been my experience. And I absolutely can't wait to read #7.

[Andi]

I really wish people wouldn't insert the rolling eyes thing when discussing the viewpoints of others.

If you would have read my post and quoted it in it's entirety - you would have realized that I was "rolling my eyes" at this part of the post....not the entire paragraph.

But I have to say, at least for myself, that in watching a movie or reading a book such as Harry Potter - I am no more entertaining the notion of witchcraft as I would be watching X-Men - hoping one day I could start a fire by thinking about it. :rolleyes:

[middletree]

I did read it in its entirety. I guess I just read it differently than you meant it. Sorry.

[Swamp]

(To steal the title from an old and really wonderful Hitchcock flick....)
Okay-I am an adult who has no children. I started reading the series when the second book came out. I was working with an afterschool program and there was lots of discussion about increasing literacy and I worked with a group of kids that didn't want to read. They never got into Harry Potter while I was there. I did. The thing that's so engrossing about this series is its suspense. It's is a good piece of fiction in that anything is made possible because all of the "normal" rules are suspended and things can be suddenly revealed as being more than originally thought. It's like a puzzle that you can't totally grasp but is slowly revealed. In that case people who like Lost may very well be Potter fans in that it does a simliar sort of story telling. She tells you enough to keep you guessing and enough to move the plot moving along.
Would I recommend this book for children? I think it would depend on the child. Some children have a better grasp on reality and fantasy. The first two books are geared for a younger crowd but the later ones really are not.

There is something to be said with being able to converse about popular culture as an adult. The purpose of a child reading it may have more to do with fitting in as much as reading good literature. What we let your child read is up to you but I would suggest you also read with them. There is a need for balance in censoring, monitoring and allowing certain things in our homes and in our minds and hearts. What may be permissible for one may be a stumbling block for another.

There is magic in C.S. Lewis, Tolkein, Shakespeare, most mythology has it as well. The Bible addesses and we are admonished to run from it. There is a difference in reading fiction and embracing occultic practices. Again which of your children can distinguish the difference between fiction fantasy and the actual practice of witchcraft and what's happening in Hoggwarts. My guess is that for some who have had experience in or with the occult will admonish against it. For some it's a stumbling block and flash back to a lifestyle they once knew but for me-it's good suspenseful read.

[Andi]

I did read it in its entirety. I guess I just read it differently than you meant it. Sorry.

Misunderstanding - no problem. I know you dislike the rolling eyes, as you have stated before in other threads, but I kinda like them. ;) Of course - If I were addressing you specifically in a post, I would steer clear of them out of respect for you.

Andi

[middletree]

As much as I am against letting my kids read/watch HP, I acknowledge that it is a gray area. For me, HP is black and white; a no-brainer. But the aforementioned LOTR, Cinderella, A Night at the Museum, and countless other stories/movies are more gray. And then there's Christmas, Easter, and the steeple, which include enough witchcraft and paganism to keep you busy for a while.

[Kasie_89]

My Mom didn't want me to read any of the books nor watch any of the movies. I was ok with that becuase I wan't really interested in it.
One day i saw one of the movies on tv....and I found it very interesting. The special effects were great and the plot wasn't boring.

Today my friend invited me to go see the latest movies in the theater, and after reading everyone's posts, I think I'll take her up on the offer.

I know that nothing in the movie is real, and since I understand that, I know I won't take the movie to heart. It will just be a chance for me to hang out with a friend I haven't seen in a long time.

[Musicdude]

My Mom didn't want me to read any of the books nor watch any of the movies. I was ok with that becuase I wan't really interested in it.
One day i saw one of the movies on tv....and I found it very interesting. The special effects were great and the plot wasn't boring.

Today my friend invited me to go see the latest movies in the theater, and after reading everyone's posts, I think I'll take her up on the offer.

I know that nothing in the movie is real, and since I understand that, I know I won't take the movie to heart. It will just be a chance for me to hang out with a friend I haven't seen in a long time.

I saw it last night. It was awesome, just like all the others.

It is classic good vs. evil type plot (in which good wins). I can't see what difference it makes if the heroes are wielding guns, light-sabers, or wands. It doesn't glamourize magic any more than Star Wars glamourizes the force. Both are fictional, and both are meant to be entertainment and nothing more.

Most of the people opposed to Harry Potter have never seen the movies or read the books.


The difference to me is that in Lord of the Rings, witchcraft is not being glorified.
In other words, the LOTR story was about the journey to Mt Doom, not about sorcery.


I beg to differ. Gandalf was almost made out to be a deity in the LOTR movies, and even moreso after he returned as Gandalf the white. His powers were awesome, and definitely fun to watch. To say the movie didn't glamourize magic is not true. And then the epic battle between Gandalf and Sauroman. Magic may not have been the main theme of LOTR, but it certainly had a big role. And it wasn't just the wizards either. The elves used magic, and the rings themselves were magical items. Some of the swords were enchanted, etc.

Harry Potter, on the other hand is about sorcery.
Not any more than LOTR. Harry Potter is about kids learning to be adults during hard times, and against opposition from enemies and even from so-called friends and teachers. It is about good vs. evil. It is about people who didn't want to be heroes, but rise to the challenge inspite of not wanting the responsibility. They just happen to be wizards (not witches or warlocks mind you.)

[The Unknown Gomer]

...Shrek has magic in it too, i.e. fairy godmother. Is that inappropriate for kids?
Look at the Wizard of Oz. That had a couple of witches in it. And one of them was good and beautiful, glamourizing witchcraft. Mickey mouse was a wizard in Fantasia. Sleeping Beauty had four witches, three of which were good witches. Cinderella had a fairy godmother. Hanzel and Grettal had a witch. I remember a witch on Bugs Bunny. There was magic on Beauty and the Beast. Aladin had a genie. Little mermaid had a witch. The list goes on.
Usually the witches in these kids movies are bad characters, but as I have pointed out they are good sometimes too, thus glamourizing witchcraft, no? If you forbid your children from watching Harry Potter, yet allow them to watch any of the other films I mentioned, you have a double-standard.

Why is Harry Potter being raked over the coals, whenever just about every Disney movie ever made had witchcraft in it? And Disney isn't the only one doing this. Pixar, Warner Bros., etc. are all guilty of it. Because magic is fun, and exciting. Fairy tales are fascinating. And kept in perspective they are completely harmless...

I've never read the books, it's been a LONG time since I've meandered into the kid's section of the library to get books, but have seen the first two movies, so I'm not totally ignorant of the subject matter. But the above pretty much sums up my thoughts on the subject as well.

For those grownups who HAVE read any of the books, ARE they a good read? I'm always on the lookout for new authors to try, but just never gave HP a lot of thought as a book series to try.

...The author herself said this about the influence Harry Potter has on children and it is scary:

"I get letters from children addressed to Professor Dumbledore [headmaster at Hogwarts School of Witchcraft and Wizardry, the books’ setting], and it’s not a joke, begging to be let into Hogwarts, and some of them are really sad. Because they want it to be true so badly they’ve convinced themselves it’s true." J.K. Rowling

Which is sad, but is not any fault of the books/movies. The kids were apparently NOT mature enough to read HP and know that it's fiction, which is where the parents SHOULD have stepped in and say "no, not til you're older". Sounds like these are the types of kids who you'd want to keep away from the violent video games and movies as well, if they get so wrapped up in what should be fictional entertainment that they think it's real, you DON'T want them playing Doom3 or Half Life or something. Again, not the fault of the games/movies, it's up to the parents to step in and "Just Say No".

[Andi]

For those grownups who HAVE read any of the books, ARE they a good read? I'm always on the lookout for new authors to try, but just never gave HP a lot of thought as a book series to try.

I have read them all, and am waiting for the final book to be delivered in a few days. I love the books and I recommend them to any adult to read. The first 2 are good, the 3rd and 4th are great, and the 5th and 6th are awesome reads. So I am expecting that the 7th will be fantastic.

I read all types of books, fiction, non-fiction, thriller, fantasy, espionage, you name it. There was a time when the LOTR Trilogy was my favorite compilation of fiction....but I have to say that the Harry Potter series has moved into the #1 fiction spot in my library.

My husband has agreed to take the kids on a Daddy Day when the book arrives, because I intend on sitting down - opening the book - and not moving until I have finished it. Which is how I have read all of the books in the series!


Which is sad, but is not any fault of the books/movies. The kids were apparently NOT mature enough to read HP and know that it's fiction, which is where the parents SHOULD have stepped in and say "no, not til you're older". Sounds like these are the types of kids who you'd want to keep away from the violent video games and movies as well, if they get so wrapped up in what should be fictional entertainment that they think it's real, you DON'T want them playing Doom3 or Half Life or something. Again, not the fault of the games/movies, it's up to the parents to step in and "Just Say No".


Absolutely agreed!!!!

[Musicdude]

Which is sad, but is not any fault of the books/movies. The kids were apparently NOT mature enough to read HP and know that it's fiction, which is where the parents SHOULD have stepped in and say "no, not til you're older". Sounds like these are the types of kids who you'd want to keep away from the violent video games and movies as well, if they get so wrapped up in what should be fictional entertainment that they think it's real, you DON'T want them playing Doom3 or Half Life or something. Again, not the fault of the games/movies, it's up to the parents to step in and "Just Say No".

Exactly.
And I would add that there are lots of kids who write letters to Santa Clause as well, and we don't assume the child has psychological issues when that happens. Kids have very active imaginations, and movies like this stimulate those imaginations. But that fiction needs to be tempered with a dose of reality from their parents.

I remember watching Star Wars as a child, and being terrified of Darth Vader. To me, he was real. And not only real, but out to get me. So much that I couldn't sleep that night, and didn't want to leave my parents. But you know what they did? They sat me down and had a talk with me about what is real and what is not. And after they explained all this to me, they let me sleep with them that night. By the next morning I was fine.

The problem with kids is the parents don't take that time anymore to explain these things to their kids. They let the television be the teacher, and it's no wonder the kids have problems with a bad teacher like that.

[Andi]

The problem with kids is the parents don't take that time anymore to explain these things to their kids. They let the television be the teacher, and it's no wonder the kids have problems with a bad teacher like that.

Ohhhh nooooo....you mean there are parents out there that let TVs and video games parent their kids?????? :eek:

Don't even get me started on that subject. *runs to start a new thread*

[Buttabean]

I don't have children, but if I did I would let them read and watch Harry Potter. There are plenty of chidren's books out there that involve fantasy and magic--this one is just getting slack because its so popular. But if you look beyond all that, these books have great themes for children: sticking with your friends no matter what, love v. evil (with love always prevailing in the end) etc. The magic in these movies is not supposed to take the forefront in the minds of readers. Its part of the background as the setting. The relationships of the characters is the focus of the books, and people should keep that in mind.

I had never read any of them before I took a young adult literature class in college last spring. After all the controversy about the witchcraft and such, I didn't want to mess with them. But as we read the first book for class, I really started enjoying it. I think books like this can teach children about the importance of loyalty and friendship while having a fun and exciting plot to keep them reading.

Personally, I think kids should be reading every chance they get. My mother encourage my brother and I to read constantly, and it has done me an indescribable amount of good throughout my educational career. If these kids can serve as a way to get kids to read, I'm all for them.

[middletree]

Most of the people opposed to Harry Potter have never seen the movies or read the books.


I also don't eat worms, although I'm quite sure they wouldn't taste good.

I beg to differ. Gandalf was almost made out to be a deity in the LOTR movies,

I sure didn't see it that way. In fact, another (evil) wizard appeared to be stronger than him.

To say the movie didn't glamourize magic is not true. And then the epic battle between Gandalf and Sauroman. Magic may not have been the main theme of LOTR, but it certainly had a big role.

And this is why I said I won't judge anyone here who chooses to let their kids enjoy HP. I see the line between HP and LOTR, and if you don't, that's fine.

[middletree]

And I would add that there are lots of kids who write letters to Santa Clause as well,

For the record, I don't let my kids do the Santa thing, either. And many parents that I know agree with me. Santa saturation is nowhere near 100% like it used to be.


I remember watching Star Wars as a child, and being terrified of Darth Vader. To me, he was real. And not only real, but out to get me. So much that I couldn't sleep that night, and didn't want to leave my parents. But you know what they did? They sat me down and had a talk with me about what is real and what is not. And after they explained all this to me, they let me sleep with them that night. By the next morning I was fine.


While I'm glad your parents chose to talk with you, perhaps another alternative was to not have let you watch it in the first place.

[Buttabean]

While I'm glad your parents chose to talk with you, perhaps another alternative was to not have let you watch it in the first place.


Maybe this will make me a bad parent, but I don't feel that children should be totally sheltered like that. I know we weren't allowed to watch movies with sex and such in them, but I certainly remember watching action movies as a kid--the one without too much violence. We watched Star Wars up and down, and my favorite movie in elementary school was Indiana Jones. Were my parents wrong in letting me watch these?

[Musicdude]

Maybe this will make me a bad parent, but I don't feel that children should be totally sheltered like that. I know we weren't allowed to watch movies with sex and such in them, but I certainly remember watching action movies as a kid--the one without too much violence. We watched Star Wars up and down, and my favorite movie in elementary school was Indiana Jones. Were my parents wrong in letting me watch these?

Agreed.

Star Wars (the old one with Darth Vader) is by far my favorite movie series of all time, coincidentally. LOTR and Harry Potter are also among my favorites. I don't regret watching it, even then. It just scared me a little, but no permanent damage was done. Being scared causes us to pray, so it's not necessarily a bad thing.

You don't want your kids to grow up too fast. But you do want them to grow up. And you can't shelter them from evil forever. They need to learn how to deal with evil, because they will be bombarded with it all of their lives. And no matter how much you try to shelter them, they still are exposed to evil more than you know. We may not be "of" this world, be we are certainly "in" it.
I think it is better to teach children right from wrong and fact from fiction gradually as they grow, exposing them more and more to life, than to just shelter them and shelter them until one day they become adults and go to the extreme and try to experience all those things you sheilded them from as a child. I've known many people who that happened to. They were extremely sheltered as children, and went wild as soon as they were old enough to do what they wanted. They were children of my old pastor who was one of the best bible teachers I've ever heard.

[middletree]

Maybe this will make me a bad parent, but I don't feel that children should be totally sheltered like that. I know we weren't allowed to watch movies with sex and such in them, but I certainly remember watching action movies as a kid--the one without too much violence. We watched Star Wars up and down, and my favorite movie in elementary school was Indiana Jones. Were my parents wrong in letting me watch these?

Musicdude doesn't say how old he was, and as a parent of small children (ages 5, 5, and 3) I can only relate to small kids right now. I can't imagine letting my kids watch Star Wars, or, for that matter, The Wizard of Oz. They couldn't handle it. I'm not saying all 5-year-olds are where they are. But I know my kids, and they had a hard time with Cinderella a few months ago. They definitely would not be ready for Star Wars.

I don't call that sheltering. I call it knowing my kids. I think I've been careful about not telling others what they should do. But the original question which opened this thread is: do you let your kids watch HP?, and so I am answering for me.

[middletree]

Star Wars (the old one with Darth Vader) is by far my favorite movie series of all time, coincidentally. LOTR and Harry Potter are also among my favorites. I don't regret watching it, even then. It just scared me a little, but no permanent damage was done. Being scared causes us to pray, so it's not necessarily a bad thing.


Whether or not a movie scares you is a different question than what this thread is about: movies which seem to glorify the occult. When I say I don't want my kids watching HP, it's because in my opinion, it makes sorcery look alluring. When I say my kids won't watch Star Wars, it's because they cannot handle it right now. Totally different thing.

[middletree]

You don't want your kids to grow up too fast. But you do want them to grow up. And you can't shelter them from evil forever. They need to learn how to deal with evil, because they will be bombarded with it all of their lives. And no matter how much you try to shelter them, they still are exposed to evil more than you know.

I think it is better to teach children right from wrong and fact from fiction gradually as they grow, exposing them more and more to life, than to just shelter them and shelter them until one day they become adults

Now, this is just silly. The statement above is like telling me that the grass is green and the sky is blue. Of course you expose them to the fact that this world is evil, and you do it gradually, when they are ready for it. I don't think anyone here said otherwise.

In fact, I am doing that very thing now. We have been reading "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" the last few weeks with the twins (obviously, the 3-year-old can't read that yet. In fact, he only recognizes letters, not words). But the 5-year-olds and I have been reading L,W&W with lots of time to explain things are we read (which is why it's taking so long.) When we're done, I have promised them that we will watch the movie together. There are some scary scenes in there, but we feel that we have buffered them by going through the story first, so they will know that there is a happy end, and that only the bad people (witch, wolf, whatever) die, and that Aslan doesn't stay dead.

[Musicdude]

Musicdude doesn't say how old he was, and as a parent of small children (ages 5, 5, and 3) I can only relate to small kids right now. I can't imagine letting my kids watch Star Wars, or, for that matter, The Wizard of Oz. They couldn't handle it. I'm not saying all 5-year-olds are where they are. But I know my kids, and they had a hard time with Cinderella a few months ago. They definitely would not be ready for Star Wars.

I don't call that sheltering. I call it knowing my kids. I think I've been careful about not telling others what they should do. But the original question which opened this thread is: do you let your kids watch HP?, and so I am answering for me.

I don't really remember how old I was, but I was definitely older than 5. Probably around 9 or 10.

FWIW, I wouldn't let a 5 yo watch it either.

But my issue is with parents who say HP is evil and would not let even their teens watch it.

[Musicdude]

Now, this is just silly. The statement above is like telling me that the grass is green and the sky is blue. Of course you expose them to the fact that this world is evil, and you do it gradually, when they are ready for it. I don't think anyone here said otherwise.

In fact, I am doing that very thing now. We have been reading "The Lion, the Witch, and the Wardrobe" the last few weeks with the twins (obviously, the 3-year-old can't read that yet. In fact, he only recognizes letters, not words). But the 5-year-olds and I have been reading L,W&W with lots of time to explain things are we read (which is why it's taking so long.) When we're done, I have promised them that we will watch the movie together. There are some scary scenes in there, but we feel that we have buffered them by going through the story first, so they will know that there is a happy end, and that only the bad people (witch, wolf, whatever) die, and that Aslan doesn't stay dead.

I think I misunderstood you, becuase I was referring to older kids. I agree yours are a bit young for HP.

[middletree]

But my issue is with parents who say HP is evil and would not let even their teens watch it.

Why have an issue with someone else in how they choose to raise their kids?

[Musicdude]

Why have an issue with someone else in how they choose to raise their kids?

It's not the people who quietly disallow their children from watching it that I have a problem with. It's the ones who want to judge me for letting my kids watch it that I have an issue with.

[BJ]

I've read most of the HP books and have seen the movies (books are better) and what I really enjoyed was the fun creativity... like paintings that could talk and move about in the "painting world", going into other paintings, etc. Then there's the flying car... hey, wasn't that what Chitty Chitty Bang Bang was?
I loved "Bertie Bott's Every Flavor Beans"... the Sorting Hat... the moving staircases... "Howlers"... the game of Quidditch...
to me those are the kinds of things that show imagination and true creativity.
My opinion is that all the hype about magic and all is just that-- hype. As stated in other posts here, so many other books, movies, fairy tales, etc, have the same thing going on. They've got witches and wizards, dragons and giants, talking animals and trees, etc.
"Good vs Evil" is a probably the most popular theme in literature to write about... in fact, isn't that what the Bible is about? In HP it's just "Good Magic vs Evil Magic", just like in.... say... "Watership Down" where it's "Good Talking Rabbits vs Evil Talking Rabbits" (and this and LOTR were required English reading assignments when I was in HS). It's a book, it's someone's imagination, someone's ideas of creativity and entertainment.
The responsibility of how the kids view or accept information in books, tv, movies, video games etc, is with the parents. Just as it's the parents responsibility to teach them about right from wrong, about humanities, about art, music, theater, history, peace and war, God and satan, "good vs evil", positive vs negative. Raise them right and they will have discerning spirits of their own and eventually they will become well-rounded, well-adjusted, educated parents, too, that will know how to raise well-rounded, well-adjusted, educated children of their own.
I've raised 3 kids, and I'm proud of each of them. Two read some of HP, the other didn't like reading anyway during middle school. But, I now have 2 college grads with jobs and both living on their own (neither married yet) and I have one that will go to college this fall. The first 2, I was pretty strict with and did some of the "I forbid you to do this or that" with them. They were more curious and had been a bit too "sheltered" to adjust quickly to their new-found freedoms. They learned some things the hard way because of that. I loosened up a bit with my youngest and, I have to say, she displays more maturity and responsibility than the other 2 did at the same age. I don't think she'll have any problems adjusting and finding her way in the world as a fine, young woman that once read some Harry Potter books.

[middletree]

It's not the people who quietly disallow their children from watching it that I have a problem with. It's the ones who want to judge me for letting my kids watch it that I have an issue with.

I'm in agreement with you there.

[lilmikey]

I have read all the books out so far, have seen all the movies (except the newest one out) and pre-ordered the last book which will be here next week.

At my "old" age - I can easily disern between fiction and non-fiction. I can sit and read the books and watch the movies from the same perspective that I would watch LOTR or Aliens. It is fiction to me. And I have thoroughly enjoyed the Harry Potter series and will probably have a small tear in my eye as I read the last chapter of the final installment.

Now - that being said....

I will not let my kids read the books or watch the movies until I believe they are ready. Which may be never - who knows?

I have read many posts where the opinion stated is that "we as Christians, should not either entertain the idea of witchcraft or be interested in the occult/witchcraft. And to steer clear of all of it." Which is fine. But I have to say, at least for myself, that in watching a movie or reading a book such as Harry Potter - I am no more entertaining the notion of witchcraft as I would be watching X-Men - hoping one day I could start a fire by thinking about it. :rolleyes:

Harry Potter no. I could if I wanted too but its a personal conviction I guess. The problem ONLY problem I have with LOTR is not the book itself but the fact that people try to Christianize it. Grant it may have a few small biblical threads in it. But not enough for Christian book stores to sell it. CBD.com has the books.

While yes they both have magic HP openly promotes witchcraft and the like. LOTR is just a fantasy story with magic and J.R.R Tolkein was not a male witch he was actually a catholic(hence the Christianization) where on the other hand J.K Rowling promotes witchcraft. She says she is not bu the proof is in the pudding( now that is an opinion for which I probably be slammed for but its my opinion and Im keeping it)

Some may disagree but hey thats ok. I dont really care:D

[Musicdude]

Whether or not a movie scares you is a different question than what this thread is about: movies which seem to glorify the occult. When I say I don't want my kids watching HP, it's because in my opinion, it makes sorcery look alluring. When I say my kids won't watch Star Wars, it's because they cannot handle it right now. Totally different thing.


In principle I agree. But I would like to point out that the sorcery in Harry Potter is aboslutely nothing like "real" sorcery (or as I like to call it demonism.)

So though HP may glamourize fictitious magic, it doesn't promote "real" witchcraft at all.


And Star Wars had magic too, they just gave it another name.

[middletree]

So though HP may glamourize fictitious magic, it doesn't promote "real" witchcraft at all.

I read an article somewhere where they quoted a man who owns an occult store, where customers can buy all sorts of wicca-related items. He said that every time "The Craft" would get shown on a local TV station, a new group of teen girls would come in and shop in the days afterward. I'll see if I can find that article.


And Star Wars had magic too, they just gave it another name.
My concern with Star Wars was with a level of violence that my kids have not been exposed to yet.

[Musicdude]

I read an article somewhere where they quoted a man who owns an occult store, where customers can buy all sorts of wicca-related items. He said that every time "The Craft" would get shown on a local TV station, a new group of teen girls would come in and shop in the days afterward. I'll see if I can find that article.



My concern with Star Wars was with a level of violence that my kids have not been exposed to yet.

The Craft was much more like real witchcraft than Harry Potter. I mean WAY more. It is much more likely to be taken as real than Harry Potter.

Unlike Harry Potter, I think The Craft is about 99% evil. And I wouldn't suggest anyone watch it, regardless of age. It's not that good of a movie, and it definitely glorifies real witchcraft and even idolatry. If you want to watch it, that's your business. But I think it's got evil written all over it.

[middletree]

The Craft was much more like real witchcraft than Harry Potter. I mean WAY more. It is much more likely to be taken as real than Harry Potter.

I'll take your word for it. Like HP, I won't be watching it.

It's a shame, because a friend of mine's band appeared on that soundtrack.

[clemsontigers23]

I've seen three Harry Potter movies and I've read two of the books. For those of you who say most people who don't like Harry Potter have never seen it or read it, you are wrong. As far as LOTR and Narnia goes, there is definitely a grey area. I enjoyed Narnia because it was Christian symbolism and the book was written by one of my favorite authors, a Christian author named C.S. Lewis. One of the things you have to consider when reading HP is that Rowling promotes witchcraft and the such. Unlike Lord of the Rings, they actually practice magic. Even black magic is featured on the side of the evil wizards and warlocks. However, the Lord tells us ALL magic is forbidden and that even white magic is bad. Like it says in the Bible, Satan disguises himself as an angel of light and tries to make something that is an abomination to God seem not so bad. I agree that there's a line that needs to be drawn when sheltering kids, but some of you are basically saying we should pin a 20 dollar bill to their collar and send them out on their own. One of the reasons why young children should be somewhat sheltered is they are VERY impressionable. You can't just let them read and watch whatever you want, especially when it's something that glorifies something considered an abomination to God. Middletree is perfectly within his rights as a devout Christian to forbid his young children from watching something that glorifies something forbidden by God Himself. I see many of you try to justify it, but scripture says people will try to justify their sins even when they know it's wrong. Is watching the movie a sin? I can't say. But I do believe there are other things out there much better to read if you are a follower of Christ.

[The Unknown Gomer]

Unlike Lord of the Rings, they actually practice magic.

That's the 2nd or 3rd post that has said that in some form or another. Am I missing something? I never read the books (tried reading The Hobbit one time, was bored to death with it, so never picked up any of the other ones), but have seen all three movies.

Are the movies THAT different from the books? Because if I remember correctly, there was all SORTS of magic being practiced throughout the entire trilogy in the movie version.

Can someone clarify? Because the way that whole idea is coming across to ME is:

LOTR (book series full of magic and sorcery and spells) = okay

but that

Harry Potter (book series full of magic and sorcery and spells) = bad.

Maybe it's just a definition thing, maybe y'all don't think that the spells and enchantments and rings and things in LOTR are considered magic? *scratches head, perplexed*

[danbos]

That's the 2nd or 3rd post that has said that in some form or another. Am I missing something? I never read the books (tried reading The Hobbit one time, was bored to death with it, so never picked up any of the other ones), but have seen all three movies.

Are the movies THAT different from the books? Because if I remember correctly, there was all SORTS of magic being practiced throughout the entire trilogy in the movie version.

Can someone clarify? Because the way that whole idea is coming across to ME is:

LOTR (book series full of magic and sorcery and spells) = okay

but that

Harry Potter (book series full of magic and sorcery and spells) = bad.

Maybe it's just a definition thing, maybe y'all don't think that the spells and enchantments and rings and things in LOTR are considered magic? *scratches head, perplexed*

Gandalf uses magic all through the books.

[Musicdude]

That's the 2nd or 3rd post that has said that in some form or another. Am I missing something? I never read the books (tried reading The Hobbit one time, was bored to death with it, so never picked up any of the other ones), but have seen all three movies.

Are the movies THAT different from the books? Because if I remember correctly, there was all SORTS of magic being practiced throughout the entire trilogy in the movie version.

Can someone clarify? Because the way that whole idea is coming across to ME is:

LOTR (book series full of magic and sorcery and spells) = okay

but that

Harry Potter (book series full of magic and sorcery and spells) = bad.

Maybe it's just a definition thing, maybe y'all don't think that the spells and enchantments and rings and things in LOTR are considered magic? *scratches head, perplexed*
It's not just you. I too am perplexed by this. The only difference I can see is the number of wizards in the movie. But both movies are good magic vs. bad magic. And really it's just good people vs. bad people, and those people just so happen to have magical power.


I've seen three Harry Potter movies and I've read two of the books. For those of you who say most people who don't like Harry Potter have never seen it or read it, you are wrong.
I didn't say everyone who doesn't like it hasn't seen it. I said everyone who thinks it's a recruiting film for Wicca hasn't seen it. And I'd bet a paycheck on that.

As far as LOTR and Narnia goes, there is definitely a grey area. I enjoyed Narnia because it was Christian symbolism and the book was written by one of my favorite authors, a Christian author named C.S. Lewis.
So because you prefer LOTR and Narnia, that makes them ok. Well, I liked HP better than both of those films, so that makes it ok for me. Do you see how silly that sounds?

One of the things you have to consider when reading HP is that Rowling promotes witchcraft and the such.
Can you in any way back up that claim?

Unlike Lord of the Rings, they actually practice magic. Even black magic is featured on the side of the evil wizards and warlocks.
There are no warlocks or witches in HP. Only good and bad wizards, just like LOTR.

And there was no black magic being practiced in LOTR or Narnia?
What about the spell that turned half the population of Narnia into stone? That wasn't black magic? What about the evil magical ring in LOTR that made people more hateful the longer they wore it? That wasn't black magic either?

However, the Lord tells us ALL magic is forbidden and that even white magic is bad. Like it says in the Bible, Satan disguises himself as an angel of light and tries to make something that is an abomination to God seem not so bad.
No argument here. But is hearing a story about a sinful act itself sinful? If so, we'd better quit reading the bible, because it tells many stories of sin.

I agree that there's a line that needs to be drawn when sheltering kids, but some of you are basically saying we should pin a 20 dollar bill to their collar and send them out on their own.
Oh really? Who said that?

One of the reasons why young children should be somewhat sheltered is they are VERY impressionable. You can't just let them read and watch whatever you want, especially when it's something that glorifies something considered an abomination to God.
Again, if you really believe that, then there are a ton of movies your kids cannot watch, including LOTR and Narnia.

Middletree is perfectly within his rights as a devout Christian to forbid his young children from watching something that glorifies something forbidden by God Himself.
They're his kids, he can do whatever he wants. No one said otherwise. But for you to judge me for allowing my kids to do that is called "legalism." You might want to have that log in your eye checked out.

I see many of you try to justify it, but scripture says people will try to justify their sins even when they know it's wrong. Is watching the movie a sin? I can't say. But I do believe there are other things out there much better to read if you are a follower of Christ.
Again, I would love to look through your DVD collection and point out your hypocracy. The LOTR you have already admitted to proves you are a hypocrite without even looking at any other movies you might watch.


This type of attitude is what I have a problem with. Not middletree.

[middletree]

I freely admit that there seems to be a conflict in the logic behind rejection of HP and my embrace of LOTR/Narnia. I wish I could put it into words better.

Why? Maybe it's because HP goes to a school to learn witchcraft. Maybe it's because Lewis and Tolkien were devout Christians and Rowling has made no such public claims. Maybe it's because they sell LOTR and Narnia books in Christian stores and not HP books. Maybe it's illogical like preferring brunettes over blondes or mustard over mayo. Maybe the reasoning cannot be put into words.

That's probably the source of a lot of frustration here. All we have on a forum is words, typed with our keyboards. I cannot adequately put into words why I am bothered by HP and not LOTR. And any attempt to do so will fall short.

[mindyhere]

I freely admit that there seems to be a conflict in the logic behind rejection of HP and my embrace of LOTR/Narnia. I wish I could put it into words better.

Why? Maybe it's because HP goes to a school to learn witchcraft. Maybe it's because Lewis and Tolkien were devout Christians and Rowling has made no such public claims. Maybe it's because they sell LOTR and Narnia books in Christian stores and not HP books. Maybe it's illogical like preferring brunettes over blondes or mustard over mayo. Maybe the reasoning cannot be put into words.

That's probably the source of a lot of frustration here. All we have on a forum is words, typed with our keyboards. I cannot adequately put into words why I am bothered by HP and not LOTR. And any attempt to do so will fall short.

Now this explanation, I can understand. We're all different people with more often than not, varying opinions. All we can do is try our best to explain our own opinions, and understand those of others.

[ExtravagantlyLoved]

I, personally, am a very big fan of the Harry Potter books and have seen every movie except the new one, but I am planning to see it very soon. And when I have kids in the future, I will, without a doubt, encourage them to read the books, and if they want to, watch the movies, too. But with that being said, it's not for everyone.

First of all, I want to clarify that I do not want my kids to read the books or watch the movies until they reach a certain age and maturity level that allows them to be able to distinguish between fiction and reality. My little brother, who just turned nine, has seen all of the movies like I have, and I think my parents let him watch them too early. I didn't really think that the first one was too much for him to handle, but I thought the ones after that were. I mean, he started watching them when he was like 5 or 6 years old, which is too young, in my opinion. And knowing him personally, he believes things a lot more easily than I ever did as a young child, so that was even more reason for him to not be introduced to it that young. But with that being said, after my parents talked to him about it and explained that it wasn't real and now that he's grown up a little, I have no problem with him watching the HP movies. The new ones, I'm more concerned about, but when they finally do come out, he will be older and it won't be a problem. And I hope that someday he will want to read the HP books, which are so good, in my opinion. I didn't start reading the books until I was 12, and I think that was a good age. But it always depends on the person. There are even some adults who can't differentiate between fiction and reality, and I don't care how old you are, if that's the case then you don't need to read or watch anything that will blur your view of reality.

For me, the books do not blur my view of reality at all. I have no intention of finding a magic wand and flying around on my broomstick trying to hex people. It's just a story. It's not real. Never real be real. Bottomline.

Second of all, like other people have said on here, if you're against Harry Potter then you need to check what other kind of entertainment you indulge in. The Wizard of Oz, which happens to be my favorite movie since before I started kindergarten and one of my favorite books, is riddled with magic. So is The Lord of the Rings, and The Chronicles of Narnia, and Star Wars, and Cinderella, and Snow White, and Peter Pan, and just about every Disney movie ever made and countless children's stories. If you're going to be against Harry Potter because of the magic it contains, so should you also be against all the other movies and stories I just mentioned.

I would also like to add, that I know the reason so many people have a problem with HP is because the Bible states that witchcraft is a sin. And I totally agree with that. I'm not disputing the fact that witchcraft, the practice of it, is a sin. But if you're discounting the HP franchise because of sin, then you should also, like I previously stated, check what other entertainment you indulge in. If that is your reason, then you shouldn't read/watch anything that the Bible calls sin.

Also, I do not believe that reading about witchcraft is a sin, whether it was portrayed in a good light or not. If just simply reading about it is a sin, then logically we shouldn't read the Bible. That may be a bold statement, but I believe it's true.

Thirdly, I want to address comments I have heard - not just on here, but anywhere in general - about the magic in HP being real or that J.K. Rowling is in any way promoting witchcraft. Rowling has said before that there have been people who have talked to her in person, or written her letters/emails, that suggest they are interested in, or already do practice witchcraft or are involved in the occult or Wicca or something similar. And her response to them always was that nothing in it was real, and her intentions were never to get somebody interested in witchcraft or sorcery of any kind. It's just a story she came up with. She doesn't practice witchcraft of any kind, nor does she advise that anyone else practice witchcraft of any kind. Quite to the contrary, actually. She has said before that she does believe in God, and when asked about her specific religios views she said that she didn't want to say what she believed specifically because that would give away what happens in the end of the series, and that after reading the last book it should be very clear what she believes. And having read all of the books thus far, with the exception of the last one coming out this weekend, I see strong Christian themes in the books and have no doubt in Rowling's beliefs. I have even heard people who read the books and who don't claim to be Christians say that they see Christian themes in the books, so that's a pretty good indication to me that I'm not just reading into things and giving them a Christian spin.

I would also like to point out that the point in all these books and movies is not the magic. It's about life, and growing up, and finding yourself, and fighting steroetypes, and family, and friendship, and loyalty, and trust, and a zillion other things we all struggle with and learn about in our lives daily. Most of all it's a battle of good vs. evil, and isn't that what we're constantly doing, trying to become more like the good (Jesus) so that we won't be tempted by the lies of the evil (Satan)?

If you're interested at all in learning more about this subject I would suggest you check out John Granger. He has written two books about HP. The only one I've read is Looking for God in Harry Potter. It was a fascinating read, and just confirmed to me the things I already believed about the books. I would give you a link to his website, but I just tred to go there and it wasn't working. If it ever does start working, I'll be sure to post it.

I do not believe that HP is a bad thing. If you let your kids read it, they're not going to try and bewitch their enemies, or brew a potion, or jump off the roof straddled to a broom to see if they can fly. If they do, then I would say that they're not ready for it. They haven't been firmly grounded in reality and their faith in Jesus Christ. I can say for myself, that if I actually did believe that the magic in HP was real, I wouldn't even be tempted by it because I know that I don't need it. Jesus is the only thing I need, and as long as I'm following Him, I'm fine. I don't need magic or anything else for that matter. I don't even need to read the books or watch the movies. But by God's grace, he allows me to indulge myself and have luxuries like entertainment. And if I ever put that entertainment, those luxuries, above Him, then no matter what it may be, even something considered good, then I'm caught up in sin.

I hope that I presented my thoughts clearly and no one takes anything that I have said the wrong way. Please do not think that I am trying to judge you if you don't agree with me. Everyone's entitled to their own opinions, and I would be a fool to think that just because I said something, everyone should believe the same thing. This is just merely an attempt to share my point of view, and nothing more. If it comes across to you as something else, please let me know. And if you have read this entire thing, I thank you for caring enough to want to know my opinions, whether you agree with them or not.

[prayercloth sis]

Scriptures state to set no evil thing before you....

also the scriputre states to ...Think on these things...things that are lovely, and pure and the things of God...(short version..you get the jest of it)

Harry Potter in no way shape or form reflects any goodness of God...it gives God no glory....if anything it causes curiousity towards witchcraft, magic and the things that God tells us to stay away from....

can give more scriptures...of needed...

No disrespect intended towards anyone...

Rhonie

[Buttabean]

Musicdude doesn't say how old he was, and as a parent of small children (ages 5, 5, and 3) I can only relate to small kids right now. I can't imagine letting my kids watch Star Wars, or, for that matter, The Wizard of Oz. They couldn't handle it. I'm not saying all 5-year-olds are where they are. But I know my kids, and they had a hard time with Cinderella a few months ago. They definitely would not be ready for Star Wars.

I don't call that sheltering. I call it knowing my kids. I think I've been careful about not telling others what they should do. But the original question which opened this thread is: do you let your kids watch HP?, and so I am answering for me.


I certainly agree with you there. Knowing your kids is a very important factor in determining what they are allowed to watch. I saw Wizard of Oz when I was little and didn't think anything about it. Cinderella certainly didn't bother me either. But obviously if you know your children are frightened by these, then leave them out. Good point James.

[Buttabean]

Scriptures state to set no evil thing before you....

also the scriputre states to ...Think on these things...things that are lovely, and pure and the things of God...(short version..you get the jest of it)

Harry Potter in no way shape or form reflects any goodness of God...it gives God no glory....if anything it causes curiousity towards witchcraft, magic and the things that God tells us to stay away from....

can give more scriptures...of needed...

No disrespect intended towards anyone...

Rhonie

I'm not trying to be disrespectful in any way; this is just a question. :)

Do you only read Christian literature? Because that severely limits your options compared to the great literature that isn't sold at a Lifeway. ;)

I have spoken to several children in several different age groups while working at a Sylvan Learning Center, and none of them ever mentioned witchcraft or being more curious about it after reading Harry Potter, even when I asked them directly about it. They focused on Harry's friendships and adventures. There's nothing wrong with learning about loyalty or perseverance, is there?

[lilmikey]

Just for the record Im judging anybody for reading the HP books. Its one of those things if I may use the term "to each his own."

Its hard for me to explain but its not so much conviction but I dont want to get caught up in it. Its kinda like I dont want to open that door if you will.

[Jason]

We'll assume you meant "I'm not judging ...".

[Godgrl Gomer]

I admit I have not read all of the 4 pages here, but I will.

I find the HP books addictive...(not always a good thing).
I really enjoy the movies. My favourite thus far is the latest one.

After I saw HP:Phoenix, about an hour or so after when I had my quiet time with Jesus, I felt dirty and like I had cheated on my Lover/Husband.

I spent the whole weekend justifying to anyone who would hear why I saw HP.
Then I stopped, admitted my sin and I feel so free.
I honestly felt like I was an adulterer.

After all, as a Christian, I am a Bride of Christ!

I also spoke to my Prayer Partner and asked why LOTR = good and HP = Bad.
Well she said she couldn't see any Christian analogy in LOTR and doesn't see Jesus Christ glorified.

Also good can be found in anything. God will bring good out of the worst situation to His Good will. It does not mean it is of God. HP is NOT of GOD. Sure there may be good morals taught in the stories, but the spirit is not Holy.

Christ is coming back for a SPOTLESS Bride.
You are not being a fanatic by resisting HP.

Thats just my 2 cents.

[HotWireD]

I like books and frequent bookshops quite often.
I have noticed an increase in the number of little girls sitting crossed legged under the 'Spirituality/New Age' shelves, flicking through the pages of 'Spells for Teens' and suchlike books since HP came along.

Having said that, I found the following HP article quite entertaining...;)


http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/arts-%26-entertainment/harry-potter-saga-'all-a-dream'-says-rowling-20070716285/

HARRY POTTER SAGA 'ALL A DREAM' SAYS ROWLING

HARRY Potter author JK Rowling has revealed that the last sentence of the final volume in the seven book series will be "and then I woke up and it had all been a dream".

Writing on her website JK Rowling said she thought the final line was a really neat and clever way to finish the lengthy series, which "had got a bit far fetched, and much too wizardy".

She said: "It ties up all the loose ends in one go while also revealing the utter futility of Harry Potter’s existence. I really think it’s quite deep."
The ending to Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows will show Harry to be a perfectly normal teenage boy, studying at the City Academy in Gateshead, who just dreamt he was a wizard after falling asleep during a double Creationism lesson last thing on a muggy Wednesday afternoon, Rowling said.
"I considered lots of last sentences but in the end it came down to the dream one or 'they all lived happily ever after' which ran it a very close second," she added.

I saw one of the HP movies. It was over long and not much happened (in my opinion). Not particularly good literature. Some people say it encourages children to read. I would prefer them to be encouraged by better writing.

[Sam!]

"Well she said she couldn't see any Christian analogy in LOTR and doesn't see Jesus Christ glorified." ?? Seriously? It's not a 1:1 allegory, but Tolkien as a Christian couldn't help but write an epic full of Christian symbolism.

I would also point out that Gandalf isn't even really a wizard, per se. That's what he's called but he's an angelic being, sent by God to fight for good. He's not dealing with spells, so much as using power given to him by God for that purpose.

[Musicdude]

Scriptures state to set no evil thing before you....

also the scriputre states to ...Think on these things...things that are lovely, and pure and the things of God...(short version..you get the jest of it)

Harry Potter in no way shape or form reflects any goodness of God...it gives God no glory....if anything it causes curiousity towards witchcraft, magic and the things that God tells us to stay away from....

can give more scriptures...of needed...

No disrespect intended towards anyone...

Rhonie

What does scrambling eggs for breakfast have to do with God?
What does going to the restroom have to do with God?
What does the casual conversations you have with your unbelieving co-workers have to do with God?
What does Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny have to do with God?
What does tying your shoelaces have to do with God?

My point being, not every single thing we do as Christians has to be about God. God should always be in our hearts, and our attitudes should reflect that no matter what we are doing. But that doesn't mean that we can have absolutely no part in anything secular. It would be completely impossible for us to avoid all things secular, and completely unscriptural. Did Jesus do that? Did He only hang out with Christians?

[middletree]

Well she said she couldn't see any Christian analogy in LOTR and doesn't see Jesus Christ glorified.


Really? LOTR is full of metaphors which have biblical truths behind them.

[Musicdude]

Really? LOTR is full of metaphors which have biblical truths behind them.

The same could be said of just about any movie where good vs. evil is the overall theme. But could an unbeliever make that connection?

[middletree]

The same could be said of just about any movie where good vs. evil is the overall theme.
I am going beyond the good vs. evil theme.


But could an unbeliever make that connection?

I don't know if it matters. God proclaims His truths in multiple ways, and we don't get them 99% of the time. That doesn't lessen the significance of His proclamations. I made a case in the other HP thread in the Word forum that He speaks through those who He has given the gift of storytelling, and most don't get that Cinderella, or the Matrix are clear parables of New Testament principles. But whether they get it or not isn't the point.

[clemsontigers23]

What does scrambling eggs for breakfast have to do with God?
What does going to the restroom have to do with God?
What does the casual conversations you have with your unbelieving co-workers have to do with God?
What does Mickey Mouse or Bugs Bunny have to do with God?
What does tying your shoelaces have to do with God?

My point being, not every single thing we do as Christians has to be about God. God should always be in our hearts, and our attitudes should reflect that no matter what we are doing. But that doesn't mean that we can have absolutely no part in anything secular. It would be completely impossible for us to avoid all things secular, and completely unscriptural. Did Jesus do that? Did He only hang out with Christians?


You're wrong. The Bible tells us to do ALL things for the glory of God, no matter how small they may seem. No one says we should avoid all things secular, but the reason Jesus hung out with the supposed low-lifes was in order to give them hope and to save them from eternal damnation. That was for the glory of God.

[teresaUK]

You're wrong. The Bible tells us to do ALL things for the glory of God, no matter how small they may seem. No one says we should avoid all things secular, but the reason Jesus hung out with the supposed low-lifes was in order to give them hope and to save them from eternal damnation. That was for the glory of God.

Very well said, clemsontigers...:cool:

[lilmikey]

We'll assume you meant "I'm not judging ...".Sorry about that its a typo:o :D

[Musicdude]

You're wrong. The Bible tells us to do ALL things for the glory of God, no matter how small they may seem. No one says we should avoid all things secular, but the reason Jesus hung out with the supposed low-lifes was in order to give them hope and to save them from eternal damnation. That was for the glory of God.

I give up.
I'll do what I know is right, and you do what you know is right.

I'm not into pointless sacrifices. If I need to give something up for God I will. But I can see no biblical or any other reason to not keep watching very well written fictional movies. My kids will know witchcraft is wrong according to God, and they will avoid real witchcraft because it is wrong, not because I sheltered them from it, and pretended it didn't exist.

[clemsontigers23]

I give up.
I'll do what I know is right, and you do what you know is right.

I'm not into pointless sacrifices. If I need to give something up for God I will. But I can see no biblical or any other reason to not keep watching very well written fictional movies. My kids will know witchcraft is wrong according to God, and they will avoid real witchcraft because it is wrong, not because I sheltered them from it, and pretended it didn't exist.

You talked about scrambling eggs...

1 Corinthians 10:31

So whether you eat or drink or whatever you do, do it all for the glory of God.

One way scrambling eggs gives glory to God is that you are eating and taking care of your body, which is God's temple. Even the smallest things that seem insignificant give God glory.

If you know witchcraft is evil, why allow your kids to read something that glorifies it? Why not give them a Christian book to read, like Left Behind? Even better, how about the Bible? Narnia? There are so many better books to read.

[kristalball]

HARRY POTTER: CAN A WIZARD TEACH MORAL LESSONS?

BreakPoint with Charles Colson (Commentary #011119 - 11/19/2001)

The hottest film of the year -- perhaps of any year -- opened in theaters [in the US] Friday. Unless you've been living on Mars, you know that the movie is about a pre-teen wizard named Harry Potter.

Only the battles over church music have come close to generating the controversy we've witnessed over Harry Potter. Some Christians are concerned that the books will lead children into the occult; others, just as sincere, say the books teach their children valuable moral lessons. Some kids say they've used the books to share Christ with friends.

So what is a Christian to think? Should Christian kids read the books and see the movie, or not?

A Christian expert on Potter-mania says, "It depends."

Connie Neal, a veteran youth pastor and mother of three, has just written a book called WHAT'S A CHRISTIAN TO DO WITH HARRY POTTER? Neal says parents must use great discernment in deciding whether to allow their kids to read Harry Potter. For example, kids with an unhealthy interest in the occult should probably not read these books. At the same time, other parents have prayerfully decided that their kids would benefit from the moral lessons the Potter books teach.

Neal's belief that in some cases, it's acceptable and even beneficial for Christians to read secular novels comes from her reading of the book of Daniel. Daniel, you will remember, was a teenager when he was taken away from Jerusalem to live in Babylon. There, he was taught the language and literature of the pagan culture. He studied at a school that trained Babylon's magicians, astrologers, and sorcerers. The actual practice of sorcery and astrology was, of course, forbidden by God. But Daniel not only studied these subjects, he out-performed all his classmates.

One day King Nebuchadnezzer called on his magicians and astrologers to interpret a dream; none could do it. In a rage, the king ordered that all of his wise men be put to death. Daniel asked to see the king, who then asked him, "Are you able to make known to me the dream that I have seen and its interpretation?" Daniel responded: "No wise men, enchanters, magicians, or astrologers can show to the king the mystery which the king has asked, but there is a God in heaven who reveals mysteries, and he has made known to King Nebuchadnezzar what will be in the latter days."

Daniel had immersed himself in his culture's pagan literature -- but he didn't defile himself because of his deep devotion to God. As Connie Neal told BreakPoint in an interview, "God put Daniel in Babylon to be a light in the darkness -- and he was. He was not afraid to read literature that resounded in the hearts of the people with whom he lived. He used his familiarity with this pagan culture to reveal the true and living God." And Neal knows some kids who have done the same in our own post-Christian culture.

Now personally, I don't recommend the Harry Potter books or the movie, but kids are going to see it and certainly hear others talk about it no matter what we say. So teach them to be discerning, to be like Daniel. And Neal's book may be one resource that will help you sort out the issues and give your kids reasons they need to be careful -- how they should avoid the pitfalls of the Potter craze.

[kristalball]

If you know witchcraft is evil, why allow your kids to read something that glorifies it? Why not give them a Christian book to read, like Left Behind? Even better, how about the Bible? Narnia? There are so many better books to read.

Left Behind a better book than HP? Hardly.

[Musicdude]

You talked about scrambling eggs...

1 Corinthians 10:31



One way scrambling eggs gives glory to God is that you are eating and taking care of your body, which is God's temple. Even the smallest things that seem insignificant give God glory.

If you know witchcraft is evil, why allow your kids to read something that glorifies it? Why not give them a Christian book to read, like Left Behind? Even better, how about the Bible? Narnia? There are so many better books to read.

Because reading a fictional book about something that is wrong is not wrong.
Doing witchcraft is wrong.

What about relaxing in front of a good movie in order to stay healthy. It's a matter of getting the rest you need for your body and your mind. Unplug from the real world for a little while, and just enjoy a great make-believe story. That is taking care of your body (which is a temple to the Holy Spirit), thus glorifying God by caring for His property.

Narnia is no better than HP. If I concluded HP was bad, I would have to exclude my kiddos from Narnia and LOTR as well, because they are very similar.

[clemsontigers23]

Because reading a fictional book about something that is wrong is not wrong.
Doing witchcraft is wrong.

What about relaxing in front of a good movie in order to stay healthy. It's a matter of getting the rest you need for your body and your mind. Unplug from the real world for a little while, and just enjoy a great make-believe story. That is taking care of your body (which is a temple to the Holy Spirit), thus glorifying God by caring for His property.

Narnia is no better than HP. If I concluded HP was bad, I would have to exclude my kiddos from Narnia and LOTR as well, because they are very similar.

You can not honestly say there is more witchcraft in Narnia than there is in Harry Potter. The only witch in Narnia is the White Witch who is the EQUIVALENT of satan himself. The story is DIRECT Christian symbolism written by a Christian writer. You can NOT compare a story about a kid going to a school of WIZARDRY and WITCHCRAFT where the supposed GOOD GUY in the story is learning how to be a WIZARD. The ONLY difference between wizards and witches is wizards are men and witches are women. That is the ONLY difference. Wizards practice witchcraft as well. There is NO proof that Harry Potter is Christian symbolism, only the good vs. evil theme that shows up in EVERY story. Narnia is DIRECT symbolism STRAIGHT from the story of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. It is a way of helping kids understand what happened to Jesus without subjecting them to the Passion of the Christ.

[Musicdude]

You can not honestly say there is more witchcraft in Narnia than there is in Harry Potter. The only witch in Narnia is the White Witch who is the EQUIVALENT of satan himself. The story is DIRECT Christian symbolism written by a Christian writer. You can NOT compare a story about a kid going to a school of WIZARDRY and WITCHCRAFT where the supposed GOOD GUY in the story is learning how to be a WIZARD. The ONLY difference between wizards and witches is wizards are men and witches are women. That is the ONLY difference. Wizards practice witchcraft as well. There is NO proof that Harry Potter is Christian symbolism, only the good vs. evil theme that shows up in EVERY story. Narnia is DIRECT symbolism STRAIGHT from the story of the crucifixion of Jesus Christ. It is a way of helping kids understand what happened to Jesus without subjecting them to the Passion of the Christ.

So exactly how many witches need to be in a movie before it is considered to contain witchcraft?

[clemsontigers23]

So exactly how many witches need to be in a movie before it is considered to contain witchcraft?

The difference between Narnia and Harry Potter is that only the evil witch, who DIRECTLY SYMBOLIZES satan, practices any form of witchcraft, and even SHE doesn't do it on the level Harry Potter does it. C.S. Lewis, a Christian man, makes it VERY clear who the White Witch symbolizes and who Aslan symbolizes, a story telling the ultimate victory of God over satan.

You can't find that in Harry Potter as I have already shown in the occult thread in the Word forum. Even the supposed GOOD GUYS, like Harry Potter, practice witchcraft, so you can not compare Harry Potter and Narnia.

[The Unknown Gomer]

...I would also point out that Gandalf isn't even really a wizard, per se. That's what he's called but he's an angelic being, sent by God to fight for good. He's not dealing with spells, so much as using power given to him by God for that purpose.

Again, I've never read the LOTR books but found the following in various places online after googling "Gandalf":

"Gandalf is a central character in The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, where he appears as a fairly archetypal wizard, albeit one as equally at home using a sword as employing magic...The Old Norse name "Gandalfr" appears in the list of dwarves in the Völuspá of the Elder Edda; the name is made up of the words gandr meaning both "wand" and (especially in compounds) "magic" and alfr meaning "elf" or in a wider sense (mythological) "being". Hence "magic-elf/-being" or wizard (non human)."

"Race: Istari (Wizards)
Gandalf was one of the Order of Wizards sent to Middle-earth"

"They use staffs as a means to conduct their power and will..."

Kind of sounds like an older version of Harry Potter doesn't it? - a wizard that uses a staff/wand to work their magic?

Now to be fair, I also googled "Gandalf angelic being", since I never heard Gandalf referred to in that manner, and DID come up with several references to that as well. But I had to look for that specific term in order to come up with any references to indicate that Gandalf was anything other than a wizard, whereas just googling "Gandalf", it's just wizard wizard wizard, through at least the first two pages of URLs.

Did come up with an interesting read in the process. It's fairly long, but maybe the title will give y'all an idea of what it's about.

"Harry Potter vs. Gandalf (http://www.decentfilms.com/sections/articles/2567)- An in-depth analysis of the literary use of magic in the works of J. K. Rowling, J. R. R. Tolkien, and C. S. Lewis".

For those who will be continuing the discussion in this thread, it may be a worthy read.

I, for one, will be ducking out of this thread for a while. I voted in favor of HP, and explained why I voted that way. I fully respect the fact that some folk DON'T think that way, but for me, HP is a book about wizards and magic, just like LOTR is a book about wizards and magic, they're both fiction, and I think either one is perfectly fine to read, just so long as the reader is mature enough to appreciate the fact that it IS fiction. And nothing that's been said in the last 5 pages of thread has convinced me otherwise.

So, with that, since I don't have a whole lot more to add than that, carry on folks. Put a fork in me, I think I'm done. ;)

*ducks out of the thread, closing the door quietly on the way out*

[prayercloth sis]

I'm not trying to be disrespectful in any way; this is just a question. :)

Do you only read Christian literature? Because that severely limits your options compared to the great literature that isn't sold at a Lifeway. ;)

I have spoken to several children in several different age groups while working at a Sylvan Learning Center, and none of them ever mentioned witchcraft or being more curious about it after reading Harry Potter, even when I asked them directly about it. They focused on Harry's friendships and adventures. There's nothing wrong with learning about loyalty or perseverance, is there?







RESPONSE FROM RHONIE:

No, I do not read just Lifeway and or just Christian related materials but I do only read things that I feel that would be pleasing to God...good, clean literature.

I have quite a bit of knowledge concerning wirchcraft/sorcery ...for my sister got mixed up in it...
and I had to learn about it the hard way....it's not something to take lightly or be ingorant of when dealing with folks that practice it...

I prefer to stay away from anything that promotes witchcraft, magic, sorcery....period....

Scripture is very clear concerning staying away from any type of witchcraft...and I encourage others to stay away from it as well.

Revelation 21:7-8

v. 7 He that overcometh shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

v. 8 But the fearful, & unbelieving, and the abominable, murders, whoremongers, and SORCERERS, and idolators, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone, which is the second death.

Children do not start out wanting to be witches, warlocks, perverts, murderers, harlots... etc...but something they saw and was constantly around shaped their mind and their thoughts and understanding .....evil things make an impression....

Children, for the most part, do not even realize Harry Potter is mainly about sorcery/witchcraft.

Harry Potter promotes witchcraft and sorcery as being NORMAL.

These books send a message that it is ok to do these things...


IT IS NOT OK WITH GOD TO PROMOTE, READ, VIEW, OR PRACTICE SORCERY!


These books send the message that sorcery it is cool, fun...and acceptable!

The Bible is very clear that Sorcery is not acceptable in any form. I have read through these books and did not allow them in the hands of my children...and encouraged others not to allow their children to read them as well....

I honestly believe the Lord does not want us reading, studying, buying or viewing anything that would promote SORCERY. Just look up sorcery in the bible...& go from there...

There is a spirit that comes with these books, a deceiving, lying spirit that makes it all look innocent and non-threatening...

...beware of wolves in sheeps clothing......they may look innocent...but they are not...

What we read, listen to and view shapes our minds....and children are very impressionable! They are like sponges soaking up everything around them...unless we tell them NO! This is not acceptable!

The truth of the matter is...do we really want the WORLD to teach our children values .....with a twist of evil...

or should we teach them values with good, clean and pure reading materials that promote the things of God...

There are too many excellent books out there that teach all those things and they are not just found in Christian stores....

In the last day, the Anti-Christ will perform miracles, signs and wonders.....and many will be deceived....

Let's teach them the truth....with material that is pleasing to God... and not allow our children to be deceived!

If we really want our children to know about power...then tell them of God's power.....it's more awesome than anything you can see or read on Harry Potter....and it is real!
Sincerely
Rhonie

[prayercloth sis]

I give up.
I'll do what I know is right, and you do what you know is right.

I'm not into pointless sacrifices. If I need to give something up for God I will. But I can see no biblical or any other reason to not keep watching very well written fictional movies. My kids will know witchcraft is wrong according to God, and they will avoid real witchcraft because it is wrong, not because I sheltered them from it, and pretended it didn't exist.



MD

There are so many other good movies out there...why not choose something that doesn't promote....witchcraft/sorcery....

and take a stand .....against movies that do promote EVIL POWERS....

Regardless of fiction...sorcery/witchcraft is real...and evil...and scripture is specific concerning these matters...

We are to simply have nothing to do with it...

I know that you love God and I mean no disrespect.

...but I pray the Lord would convict you concerning this...

I truly believe we should not support anything that promotes EVIL POWERS!

Harry Potter does promote evil and tries to make it acceptable in today's society...and many will be deceived...

Sincerely
Rhonie

[Musicdude]

The difference between Narnia and Harry Potter is that only the evil witch, who DIRECTLY SYMBOLIZES satan, practices any form of witchcraft, and even SHE doesn't do it on the level Harry Potter does it. C.S. Lewis, a Christian man, makes it VERY clear who the White Witch symbolizes and who Aslan symbolizes, a story telling the ultimate victory of God over satan.

You can't find that in Harry Potter as I have already shown in the occult thread in the Word forum. Even the supposed GOOD GUYS, like Harry Potter, practice witchcraft, so you can not compare Harry Potter and Narnia.

Aslan used magic too. He breathed on the frozen creatures and unfroze them. He also talked about a deep magic, which the witch didn't know about. And I'm sure you would say that the "deep magic" was referring to God, but the book didn't say that, and neither did the movie.


To clarify, I don't think there is a thing evil about Narnia. I'm just making a point using your standard of what is ok and what is not.

[Musicdude]

MD
I truly believe we should not support anything that promotes EVIL POWERS!

As do I. But I disagree with you, in that I do not believe Harry Potter movies or books are promoting anything evil at all.

[prayercloth sis]

Because reading a fictional book about something that is wrong is not wrong.
Doing witchcraft is wrong.

What about relaxing in front of a good movie in order to stay healthy. It's a matter of getting the rest you need for your body and your mind. Unplug from the real world for a little while, and just enjoy a great make-believe story. That is taking care of your body (which is a temple to the Holy Spirit), thus glorifying God by caring for His property.






Narnia is no better than HP. If I concluded HP was bad, I would have to exclude my kiddos from Narnia and LOTR as well, because they are very similar.


I did exclude my children from all of these and more!!!!!

I do not support anything that promotes fictional evil...because there is a very present & real evil...

We all have better things to spend our time and money on.

My children have been taught and seen the truth.

They attend public school...& see more than I wish they were seeing...

They realize the word of God is true and those things still take place today in our society.

From palm reading to energy healing, chanting, potions, fortune telling, psychics, taro cards, just other names for witchcraft and sorcery...

Calling up the dead is called necromancing in the bible..they still do it...used to have a TV show on that did it...with a man...can't remember his name...and Sylvia Brown ....got famous on Montel....and the list goes on...

King Saul went to a witch and had Samuel called from his sleep....because he had disobeyed God ....

We need to be careful about disobeying the word of God .......

As a society we are not careful enough....or we wouldn't be where we are today.....

Rhonie

[prayercloth sis]

As do I. But I disagree with you, in that I do not believe Harry Potter movies or books are promoting anything evil at all.



Sorcery and Witchcraft, potions, chanting, incantations, spells are EVIL...whether fictional or not....

Where do you think the writer came up with these practices...

They are definitely not things of God....

These books & movies are sending spirits of deception into the lives of our children while we stand idly by and allow it....

There are real sorcerers/sorceress and warlocks, witches,....who practice and chant, make potions, say incantations, use magic, etc....just like in those movies....except they are servants of Satan....

anything that promotes the things of Satan are evil....whether fictional or not....

Satan is a master at deception...

I will not be deceived....and Harry Potter and other movies using such forms of magic are an instument of the enemy to deceive the next generation...

I pray that all Christians are spiritually awakened to the evil devices of the enemy...and protect their children. In Jesus name amen.

There is a spiritual realm we are sometimes unaware of...let's be careful...

Rhonie

[prayercloth sis]

I am going beyond the good vs. evil theme.




I don't know if it matters. God proclaims His truths in multiple ways, and we don't get them 99% of the time. That doesn't lessen the significance of His proclamations. I made a case in the other HP thread in the Word forum that He speaks through those who He has given the gift of storytelling, and most don't get that Cinderella, or the Matrix are clear parables of New Testament principles. But whether they get it or not isn't the point.




Just a thought...we can be blessed in the gift of story-telling without using evil practices...

Jesus was great at it...and never once did he have to use evil practices....

and I choose to do so...and encourage others as well...

just a thought..

Rhonie

[prayercloth sis]

Hey Everyone...


I pray none of the above posts I made shows any disrespect towards any one person.....

I sometimes stress my viewpoints with much zeal...

I love and respect you all...

I just am really convicted over certain things and mean no disrespect as I discuss these topics with each of you...

I would rather be to careful and be safe...than not careful enough and get caught in a snare....

or as my old red-headed pastor would say...

I would rather make it to heaven with a wheel-barrow too much or not make it with a teaspoon too little...

Thanks for letting me share my point of view..

God's Blessings upon you all..in Jesus name
Rhonie

[Jason]

I did exclude my children from all of these and more!!!!!


You exclude your children from Narnia?

[kiwisongbird]

I didn't let my kids read Narnia until they were around 9 or 10 and even then explained a lot of it - also some of them are more scary than others - and some kids can handle them differently than others.

[Musicdude]

[/COLOR]


I did exclude my children from all of these and more!!!!!

I do not support anything that promotes fictional evil...because there is a very present & real evil...

We all have better things to spend our time and money on.

My children have been taught and seen the truth.

They attend public school...& see more than I wish they were seeing...

They realize the word of God is true and those things still take place today in our society.

From palm reading to energy healing, chanting, potions, fortune telling, psychics, taro cards, just other names for witchcraft and sorcery...

Calling up the dead is called necromancing in the bible..they still do it...used to have a TV show on that did it...with a man...can't remember his name...and Sylvia Brown ....got famous on Montel....and the list goes on...

King Saul went to a witch and had Samuel called from his sleep....because he had disobeyed God ....

We need to be careful about disobeying the word of God .......

As a society we are not careful enough....or we wouldn't be where we are today.....

Rhonie

Well, I'm glad you take an active role in monitoring what your kids are exposed to. That's awesome.

And if you feel those things are wrong, then you shouldn't let them watch it.
But I don't feel they are wrong. Now, I'm not saying real witchcraft isn't wrong mind you. It is. But I don't agree that watching a fictional story about it is wrong.

We don't have to agree on this, ya know. You can just do what you think is right, and so will I. I promise you I'm not ever going to do anything I think is not good for my kids (when I have kids.) I am much more concerned for their well-being than you are.

[middletree]

Aslan used magic too. He breathed on the frozen creatures and unfroze them. He also talked about a deep magic, which the witch didn't know about. And I'm sure you would say that the "deep magic" was referring to God, but the book didn't say that, and neither did the movie.

I just read that chapter last night to my kid, and the witch clearly does know. Moreover, it's referred to not only as Deep Magic, but the Emperor's Magic, and there's a pretty strong implication that the Emperor is someone whose rules cannot be changed over avoided, which is why someone has to die in Edmund's place.

[middletree]

You exclude your children from Narnia?

Why not? No harm in this. I am choosing not to exclude Narnia in my house, but I say, err on the side of caution. Rhonie will have to stand before God and account for her stewardship of her kids, and it's a frightening prospect, believe me.

And BTW, I never even heard of Narnia till I was in my 30's. I managed to turn into a decent adult without having been exposed to the works of Lewis when I was a kid. At least, that's what my parole officer and my shrink tell me. ;)

[Andi]

And BTW, I never even heard of Narnia till I was in my 30's. I managed to turn into a decent adult without having been exposed to the works of Lewis when I was a kid. At least, that's what my parole officer and my shrink tell me. ;)


Ahhh - humor at it's best! :P :D


I didn't read the Narnia series until my mid 30s - (excellent reading)....and I have them kept safe to read to my kids when they are a bit older.

[Ehud Elijah]

Anyone who seriously believes Harry Potter is bad should read John Granger's book "Looking For God In Harry Potter".
Granger is a very conservative christian, and an extremely highly educated scholar who first read Harry Potter so he could trash it, but ended up seeing the deeper truths that Rowlings has put in her books.

As christians we should do our homework, and that includes looking at both sides of arguments such as Harry Potter.

[middletree]

Anyone who seriously believes Harry Potter is bad should read John Granger's book "Looking For God In Harry Potter".
Granger is a very conservative christian, and an extremely highly educated scholar who first read Harry Potter so he could trash it, but ended up seeing the deeper truths that Rowlings has put in her books.

As christians we should do our homework, and that includes looking at both sides of arguments such as Harry Potter.

This has already been mentioned in this thread. And I would submit to you that it is possible to look at different sides and still not read that particular book.

[Ehud Elijah]

This has already been mentioned in this thread. And I would submit to you that it is possible to look at different sides and still not read that particular book.

You're right, it is possible. However, as someone who wasn't sure about the Harry Potter books myself, I decided that it was a good idea to get insight from someone classically educated, and more intelligent than myself, who also fully intended to expose them as evil, but then ended up having a change of opinion.

It's like deciding to study apologetics, but not reading anything by Josh McDowell - another man who had predisposed opinions that were changed after great study.

[Godgrl Gomer]

Really? LOTR is full of metaphors which have biblical truths behind them.

Could you help me and write some for me so I can show them to her?
I know Gandalf is supposed to be an Angel.
I saw some Christian metaphor, but I saw some in HP:eek: :o Yeh I know.:rolleyes:
Being a Post Grad in English Literary Theory, I have seen how one can easily "read" into works things such as allegory etc not intended by the author. So I try to tread carefully.

As for Narnia...someone said its as bad as HP. No....Narnia is very much Christian. Lion, Witch and Wardrobe, to me is obvious. The other books have Christian teaching and the Last Battle is like a child's version of Revelation.

I studied Lewis for my English Honors Thesis if anyone has any questions. I am also friends with Doug Gresham, Jack's step son.
Let me know if I can help.

[Jason]

Why not? No harm in this. I am choosing not to exclude Narnia in my house, but I say, err on the side of caution. Rhonie will have to stand before God and account for her stewardship of her kids, and it's a frightening prospect, believe me.

And BTW, I never even heard of Narnia till I was in my 30's. I managed to turn into a decent adult without having been exposed to the works of Lewis when I was a kid. At least, that's what my parole officer and my shrink tell me. ;)

I guess I'm just curious as to why she excludes Narnia? I didn't read Narnia until last year, but I'm glad I did. Beautiful story.

[Godgrl Gomer]

I give up.
I'll do what I know is right, and you do what you know is right.

I'm not into pointless sacrifices. If I need to give something up for God I will. But I can see no biblical or any other reason to not keep watching very well written fictional movies. My kids will know witchcraft is wrong according to God, and they will avoid real witchcraft because it is wrong, not because I sheltered them from it, and pretended it didn't exist.

No certainly don't hide them from it, I agree.
You know, I never realised until this discussion came up, but Elijah has never sought anything magical and HP doesn't even interest him.
He doesn't see anything special about magic for he says we have that power in us and the Holy Spirit is that power. If we need to, we can do it, so what it so exciting about magic. Also he thinks that living as a real Christian, being a prayer warrior, seeing and knowing what Angels do, and knowing about God is more exciting.
The other day I saw him playing with his Transformers. He was out on the back patio and he had two big forts. I asked him what he was playing. He said the good guys were fighting the bad guys and putting them in the Pit. He then went on to state that Satan was the boss of the bad guys and tells the bad guys what to do and God is the boss of the Good guys and Optimus Prime took his orders from God. He also said that the Good guys were trying to make the Bad guys Good guys. I sat there with my jaw dropped.
I had no idea how much Elijah had internalised stuff. I suppose going to a Charismatic Christian School has a lot to do with it too.
I am and have always been truthful with Elijah. But I don't dwell on the spiritual too much because he needs to remain innocent. (an order by the Lord.) Elijah sees in the Spirit. He sees good and bad. I suppose that is why magic holds no interest for him. Real life is amazing enough.

Also Elijah LOVES LOTR and Superheroes like Marvel. He came to me the other day and said its OK mummy, I know not to copy the Turtles fighting because they are cartoons and cartoons don't get hurt but people do get hurt and fighting is bad.

It is amazing what our children see and internalise. I have been told Elijah is not an "ordinary" kid, but I don't know any different. I will not assume that every child is born with in depth spiritual understanding like my little guy was. (Hence his name;) ) But it is something I have to guard and watch over. I don't know how his life will turn out, if his zeal for Jesus will remain as he grows. I just pray that God helps him to know what is right and wrong despite his parents bungles. But we have a responsibility to our children and model Godly Character.

In 1Corintians we are urged to cleanse ourselves and keep ourselves set apart. We are told to not even eat with a Brother who participates in adultery, idolatry & greed. Something to chew on.

BTW Elijah is 6.

[mindyhere]

I have been told Elijah is not an "ordinary" kid, but I don't know any different. I will not assume that every child is born with in depth spiritual understanding like my little guy was. (Hence his name;) ) But it is something I have to guard and watch over. I don't know how his life will turn out, if his zeal for Jesus will remain as he grows. I just pray that God helps him to know what is right and wrong despite his parents bungles. But we have a responsibility to our children and model Godly Character.

One of my son's - my middle son, Noah, who just turned 11 - is also very much wise beyond his years spiritually, and has such a deep love for God. HE has taught ME some things. Noah tells people who comment on this that he's the way he is because I was 6 months pregnant with him when I was baptised by immersion.

:D

[Pouye]

There is a balance, and it is not one size fits all. Parents need know their kids and with God's help make wise decisions about how to expose their kids to these things. Notice I did not say "if", but "how". That's because your kids WILL be exposed to all manner of things eventually. The job of the parent is not to simply shelter their children, but to educate them and expose things (yes, even evil and satanic things) to them in the right time and context. The purpose in doing this is so that they themselves can make the responsible choices and take ownership of their choices.

If your children go to public school, no sheltering -- no matter how well intended -- is going to help your children. They will simply divide home from public in their minds. They will learn what they can't do and can't talk about at home and what they can do and can talk about outside the context of home.

For instance, most children learn about sex long before their parents find the nerve to educate them. This has been shown over and over through statistical polls on the subject. I could do a poll here on this forum and ask if you learned about sex from your parents or from some other source. I have a feeling the results would be similar to the national polls.

Kids resent having their parents over-shelter them. This is a tendency of Christians parents, since there are a lot of things to shelter your kids from, and we do not want our kids adopting the ways of the world. However, we cannot force our kids to be Christians. Many good Christian parents have tried and failed miserably. I'm under the firm conviction that the best way to do parenting is to expose the ways of the world openly (at the best perceived time... usually when they start hinting at the subject) and in a moderated fashion. That means talking about things in a controlled and safe environment.

I'll give you an example. My daughter noticed that in the village I work in (in Papua New Guinea) that parents do not regulate at what ages children start smoking. It is not rare to see a four or five year old smoking cigarettes in the village. We new right away that we were going to have to educate her about smoking when she saw someone her age and younger doing it.

We discussed the topic openly around the dinner table. We told her why we wouldn't want her to do it, and also why we forbid her to do it. We discussed the attitudes of the parents and children, and why they didn't also forbid their children. We allowed her to voice her own opinion and ask whatever questions she wanted to ask (she was 7 at the time). We will continue to discuss this topic with her in the years to come.

To hit closer to the topic, we read the Chronicles of Narnia as family when she was 7, as well. She enjoys fantasy and the wonders of imagined worlds, etc. She has an active imagination, I'll just say. She asked questions about who wrote the book, so we showed her pictures (looked up C.S. Lewis online) and talked about his life. She was fascinated that an "old, white-haired guy" could write such a story. That same year the film came out, so we allowed her to watch the film, too.

Our daughter loves to know the story behind the story, so she asked about how they made the film. We ordered the DVD and made sure it had the makings of the film included. She enjoyed watching the makings of the film almost more than the film itself! She was amazed how some of the characters were created with computer software, and she was really interested in the costume designs and makeup artistry. She learned about the real people and how the scenes were created. She now understands that the woman who played the White Witch is, in reality, a nice British actress named Tilda Swinton.

Because we have purposely exposed our daughters to "make believe" or "fantasy" in this sort of way, they both have an understanding that some things are simply made up - a creation of the mind - and then there is reality. This distinction is good, and when it comes to magic, powers, etc. they know that those things in the fantasy stories they hear and see on film are creations of the mind played out in words or acted out in films.

As our daughters get older, we will continue to discuss these things and also the spiritual side of such things. Some parents have strong convictions about the spiritual side of music, stories or even objects. My own conviction is that it is best to expose spiritual elements for what they are rather than hide them. Hidden things draw interest. So in practical terms, that means that we talk with our girls about their spiritual perceptions, as well as continue to fill them with the Word of God.

One thing that I continue to point out to my kids is that there are real and present dangers in the world, and that not everyone has their best interests in mind. My wife and I both want, as parents, to educate our children on the realities that they will face AND the possible realities that they COULD face. In other words, we want them to act responsibly in whatever situation they face.

I am confident that my older daughter (now 8) could watch Harry Potter with no problems. She doesn't confuse fantasy and reality, and she knows about camera tricks and is familiar with the world of CGI. I didn't really find the stories that interesting (you HP fans can pick up your stones now) and nothing really of depth worthy of showing her. The entertainment factor is high, but good moral/spiritual lessons are low -- unlike the Chronicles of Narnia. Not worth it, in my opinion. When she is older and if she wants to watch it, we'll probably let her.

Rock

[Godgrl Gomer]

One of my son's - my middle son, Noah, who just turned 11 - is also very much wise beyond his years spiritually, and has such a deep love for God. HE has taught ME some things. Noah tells people who comment on this that he's the way he is because I was 6 months pregnant with him when I was baptised by immersion.

:D

WOW:D What a testimony!
The Lord told us that Elijah would be born with the Holy Spirit, and from all accounts, it appears he has. Everything else that God promised and prophesied about EJ before he was conceived has come to pass.;) As a result we were obedient and named him Elijah as God commanded, for it is in honour of what He did for us : gave a barren woman a son.

Sorry for the hijack.

Also I was thinking earlier upon a post about better to be overly cautious. Well actually this is something I dont want to be either, for then we are being like that Pharisees. Doing things "just in case" and not out of true understanding. Dont throw the baby out with the bathwater.
Trust the Holy Spirit that has been given you.
All are at different stages of growth, spiritually. Whilst Christ is the measure used against us, a babe in Christ is not expected to be able to understand that of one who chews the Steak...get my meaning?
Also those who are Babes in Christ (and I am not pointing fingers here. I am simply passing on some good advice that was given me. In truth I wouldnt know who here is a babe or not. I only know where I am at and that is all I should be concerned about.)...anyway, those who are Babes will not have ears yet to hear. So the best thing to do is to pray for them that the Spirit will speak to them. Trust God and know you do hear from Him. One way I knew that I had done wrong when I saw Potter was that I felt dirty. I felt like I had just committed adultery.
Now that is my experience and I do know better than to stray. I am of the mind that if it is wrong for one, it is likely to be wrong overall. Yet those who are innocent are covered by Grace. Thing is though, people, that by the discussion held hear in this thread and the examples of scripture and testimonies, y'all have been informed. Innocence can no longer be claimed. So when you come to choosing Potter in your life and you find yourself wondering, could there possibly be something in the arguments against this stuff, you can bet that your Spirit is being challenged. And I am sure y'all know what THAT means;)

Anyway...walk your walk. You know where y'all are at. I am not going to judge anyone or form opinions due to one's personal beliefs. I certainly am not going to start searching for splinters in all y'all's eyes when I know I got a big ol' log in my own!;) :D

[Pouye]

I often view the process of educating our children as exposing them to enough light (the truth) so that darkness will not overtake them. That way when they are exposed to darkness, they will have enough light to overcome the darkness.

Some parents want to hide their children from all darkness -- but in the process they are not illuminated by the truth that those dark things exist. Some kids never are exposed to darkness until they move out of the home and they suddenly find themselves confronted and overwhelmed by it. Many of these kids dabble in it (and some are consumed by it) because they find themselves in a state of shock.

Rock

[Godgrl Gomer]

Anyone who seriously believes Harry Potter is bad should read John Granger's book "Looking For God In Harry Potter".
Granger is a very conservative christian, and an extremely highly educated scholar who first read Harry Potter so he could trash it, but ended up seeing the deeper truths that Rowlings has put in her books.

As Christians we should do our homework, and that includes looking at both sides of arguments such as Harry Potter.

As an English Lit Scholar let me tell you that there are many theories and philosophies and ways for reading all literature.
The ONLY way that Granger's claims can be substantiated is if Rowlings said yes, that is what I meant when I wrote Potter; or yes that is the allegory I was going for.
Until then it is assuming something about a person's work that may not have been intended at all.
God will use ALL things to bring about His good will and purpose and the enemy can manipulate things to look "good". That does not mean that Potter is of God. There is a big difference to being used or Satan mocking. Remember the girl following Paul around calling out that he is an Apostle of Jesus Christ, the Messiah. The Spirit in her was telling the Truth, but it was not to the glory of God. It took Paul a few days to figure out that it was not the Spirit of God in the girl, otherwise he would have acted upon it immediately. All knew she was a medium and so by telling the Truth, it was drawing attention to her and her "gift". It is subtle.
One thing to notice in Potter is that at Christmas there is no Jesus...interesting.;)

[Godgrl Gomer]

I often view the process of educating our children as exposing them to enough light (the truth) so that darkness will not overtake them. That way when they are exposed to darkness, they will have enough light to overcome the darkness.

Some parents want to hide their children from all darkness -- but in the process they are not illuminated by the truth that those dark things exist. Some kids never are exposed to darkness until they move out of the home and they suddenly find themselves confronted and overwhelmed by it. Many of these kids dabble in it (and some are consumed by it) because they find themselves in a state of shock.

Rock

Once again Rock I find myself agreeing with you. Without knowing there is Darkness, they wont fully understand and embrace the importance of being the shining Light of Christ and not hiding under a bushel.
Bless you Rock.

[middletree]

I often view the process of educating our children as exposing them to enough light (the truth) so that darkness will not overtake them. That way when they are exposed to darkness, they will have enough light to overcome the darkness.

Some parents want to hide their children from all darkness -- but in the process they are not illuminated by the truth that those dark things exist. Some kids never are exposed to darkness until they move out of the home and they suddenly find themselves confronted and overwhelmed by it. Many of these kids dabble in it (and some are consumed by it) because they find themselves in a state of shock.

Rock
I agree with you, but are you relating this to Harry Potter? Because I gotta tell you, I can, and am, fulfilling the calling in your post by exposing my kids to the amount of darkness that they can handle, by going over bible stories such a Daniel/Lion's den, Jesus' crucifixion, David killing Goliath, etc. One can keep from over-sheltering one's kids while still avoiding HP.

And BTW, some sheltering is appropriate, depending on age. For example, i might soon tell my kids about the atrocities of the Nazi concentration camps, but I won't show them Schindler's List for a long time (they're 5, 5, and 3). I have mentioned to them the fact that their grandfather was on the beach at Normandy, and that he almost got killed, and some of his friends got killed, and why this war was so important. But they won't be viewing Saving Private Ryan for a long while.

But moreover, I'll go back to the original point: I feel that HP presents sorcery in a positive light. Now, I'm not going to debate that point again, but bring it up to respond to your post. I will allow them to read stories about evil in the world, such as the stories above, because evil is presented as a negative. To me, that's a contrast between the stories I will let them read/watch, and the ones I won't. That has nothing to do with sheltering

[Pouye]

I agree with you, but are you relating this to Harry Potter? Because I gotta tell you, I can, and am, fulfilling the calling in your post by exposing my kids to the amount of darkness that they can handle, by going over bible stories such a Daniel/Lion's den, Jesus' crucifixion, David killing Goliath, etc. One can keep from over-sheltering one's kids while still avoiding HP.

And BTW, some sheltering is appropriate, depending on age. For example, i might soon tell my kids about the atrocities of the Nazi concentration camps, but I won't show them Schindler's List for a long time (they're 5, 5, and 3). I have mentioned to them the fact that their grandfather was on the beach at Normandy, and that he almost got killed, and some of his friends got killed, and why this war was so important. But they won't be viewing Saving Private Ryan for a long while.

But moreover, I'll go back to the original point: I feel that HP presents sorcery in a positive light. Now, I'm not going to debate that point again, but bring it up to respond to your post. I will allow them to read stories about evil in the world, such as the stories above, because evil is presented as a negative. To me, that's a contrast between the stories I will let them read/watch, and the ones I won't. That has nothing to do with sheltering

I'm agreeing with you, too (in general). You have lots of good sense, and I know you are doing a good job raising your kids (I can just tell by your family picture, for one thing...). It sounds like both you and your wife love the Lord and want what is best for your kids. As I said, I wouldn't simply turn my young children loose on Harry Potter. I don't think they are good stories or films for young children. However, there might be (as you already suggested) other ways to introduce your children to the realities of evil, even in the supernatural world. In my opinion, your kids are too young for HP anyway... but that's just my opinion, and I'm not their parent and I don't know them.

Rock

[prayercloth sis]

Anyone who seriously believes Harry Potter is bad should read John Granger's book "Looking For God In Harry Potter".
Granger is a very conservative christian, and an extremely highly educated scholar who first read Harry Potter so he could trash it, but ended up seeing the deeper truths that Rowlings has put in her books.

As christians we should do our homework, and that includes looking at both sides of arguments such as Harry Potter.



I have...and after prayer and fasting chose not to read Narnia, Potter and many more...

I do not feel that the spiritual aspect is considered as deep as it should be concerning most Christians today 7 those particular writings.

I would much rather spend my time and money on things that are not FICTIONAL! To me fiction is a waste of time....too much history and truth....that I can learn from...

Just my thoughts...
Rhonie

[prayercloth sis]

You're right, it is possible. However, as someone who wasn't sure about the Harry Potter books myself, I decided that it was a good idea to get insight from someone classically educated, and more intelligent than myself, who also fully intended to expose them as evil, but then ended up having a change of opinion.

It's like deciding to study apologetics, but not reading anything by Josh McDowell - another man who had predisposed opinions that were changed after great study.



I chose on the other hand to fast and pray and ask God what he wanted

The answer I received from the Lord was no....they are not good reading material ....for your children or anyone...

Too many men and women can be double-minded & unstable in all their ways...

...God never changes...

I prefer his knowledge and wisdom over anyones...for he knows the intent of the heart...he knows the begining from the end...and he has a God's eye view of things...we have maybe a worm's eye view...

That is why I encourage all to fast and pray and hear from the Lord themselves....concerning all aspects of their lives...

From reading material to what church to attend...we should always be led of the Lord...

Today too many people rely on what someone else says or believes and do not take the time to fast and pray and hear from God themselves...

Blessings to you all
Rhonie

[middletree]

To me fiction is a waste of time

So do you rip those parables of Jesus out of your bible?

:)

Of course, I am kidding with you. You go and stick with your convictions, and don't let anyone tell you different, Rhonie!

[Jason]

Rhonie, I'm not going to tell you that you should read Narnia, but I have to ask ... Do you really know anything about the series or its author?

[River]

Agreed.

We as Christians should also not entertain the idea of adultery, lust, fornication, hatred, violence, murder, rape, abuse, drugs, lust of money, and on and on and on. But if you truly want to steer clear of all those things, you'd better throw out all of your movies.

Shrek has magic in it too, i.e. fairy godmother. Is that inappropriate for kids?
Look at the Wizard of Oz. That had a couple of witches in it. And one of them was good and beautiful, glamourizing witchcraft. Mickey mouse was a wizard in Fantasia. Sleeping Beauty had four witches, three of which were good witches. Cinderella had a fairy godmother. Hanzel and Grettal had a witch. I remember a witch on Bugs Bunny. There was magic on Beauty and the Beast. Aladin had a genie. Little mermaid had a witch. The list goes on.
Usually the witches in these kids movies are bad characters, but as I have pointed out they are good sometimes too, thus glamourizing witchcraft, no? If you forbid your children from watching Harry Potter, yet allow them to watch any of the other films I mentioned, you have a double-standard.

Why is Harry Potter being raked over the coals, whenever just about every Disney movie ever made had witchcraft in it? And Disney isn't the only one doing this. Pixar, Warner Bros., etc. are all guilty of it. Because magic is fun, and exciting. Fairy tales are fascinating. And kept in perspective they are completely harmless.

And what about mom and dad? Is it wrong for your kids to watch anything that has even the hint of evil in it? But it's ok for you to watch movies with rape, murder, lust, sex, adultery, hate, cursing, drugs, violence?

This is a fantastic point, and unfortunatley one that's being ignored. Why is "witchcraft" worse than anything else on this list? And why is magic bad in HP, but fairy tales, Shrek, LOTR, and all of these other stories that use magic in a positive light ok?

I mean my wife and I love the movie "13 Going on 30"... great movie. But magic is at the center of it. It's at the center of a Lot of television shows and films and books that most people in this thread have let their children see. And the magic has been viewed in a Positive light.

I sure didn't see it that way. In fact, another (evil) wizard appeared to be stronger than him.

Not when Gandalf returned he wasn't.

Now, this is just silly.

What's the different between that statement and an eyeroll?

The same could be said of just about any movie where good vs. evil is the overall theme. But could an unbeliever make that connection?

Actually, I think yes... just because a person doesn't Choose a certain life doesn't mean they don't know about it. I see those same themes in films and programs written by agnostics, atheists and whatever else... yes, I think that God can show Himself in work whether the author intends it or no.

I feel that HP presents sorcery in a positive light.

But, as it's been mentioned a lot in this thread, LOTR and certainly narnia does as well. The characters can't even Get to Narnia without sorcery and magic, and can't get back home without using it again.

[Werwanderflugen]

I thought I'd share something that I was blogging about after reading the latest Harry Potter book. A certain section acted as almost a metaphorical devotional for me... anyways, this may not be on topic, but I thought I'd share:


(SPOILERS BELOW)


"Writing of this reminds me of a scene in the recent HP book. Harry, Ron, and Hermione are on the run, searching for horcruxes (pieces of Voldemort's soul which must be destroyed before he may be killed). Months in, Ron becomes fed up with the lack of action and results and seemingly poor leadership from Harry, and he leaves the quest. So Harry and Hermione set out, just the two of them, trying to accomplish the daunting task set before them. Months later, Harry discovers a horcrux, but nearly dies in his attempt. Ron returns, however, and saves Harry's life. Harry thus feels it is Ron's duty to destroy the horcrux. As Ron holds his sword high, about to accomplish his goal, voices come from the horcrux, shouting his deepest fears-- the guilt of leaving his best friends, his mother loving him the least, him never being able to accomplish anything great, living in the shadow of greater ones than he, Hermione leading him on to actually get closer to Harry-- and Ron seems unable to finish the battle. But as Harry encourages him, resolve sweeps over him, and he destroys the horcrux in two swift, mighty blows.

Sometimes I feel like Ron-- when my spiritual life seems unfruitful, or when I walk in a valley, or when I seem to lose any sense of purpose... I turn from the hand of God, and try to live on my own. Yet when I resolve to return and seek to do His will once again, satan is there to taunt me and keep me from what I know is Right. Like Ron, I must battle past this insecurity, fight back with the help of God, and return to my true Purpose."


END SPOILERS

[Pouye]

Actually, I think yes... just because a person doesn't Choose a certain life doesn't mean they don't know about it. I see those same themes in films and programs written by agnostics, atheists and whatever else... yes, I think that God can show Himself in work whether the author intends it or no.

There are seven themes in every good story. Most stories have all seven, though some only have maybe some of them -- and this includes stories from all over the world and at different times in history.

I believe myth is the universal gift of God to the heart of man.

Elements of the universal myth –

1.There is a hero in ordinary surroundings.
2.There is a catalyst (something happens) which calls the hero into the adventure, and the hero receives his/her mission and/or empowerment, usually by someone very great.
3.This central character travels to an extraordinary world, (or alternatively brings the extraordinary world to the present world in an amazing way).
4.Our hero then must pass through many obstacles, trials and problems; usually with an enemy (real or imagined) who tries to stop the mission.
5.Our hero undergoes a death experience, and enters a secret place.
6.Our hero seizes a treasure and foils the enemy’s plans.
7.The hero is resurrected in some way (either real or symbolically).

These are from the “Screenwriter’s Bible”, by David Trotter (a secular writer).

The Matrix:
1. Neo is home
2. Neo eats the pill, meets Morpheus
3. Neo travels to the "real world"
4. Neo fights the agents and dangers on all sides while the "enemy" tries to stop him
5. Neo undergoes a death experience, and so does Trinity. Neo enters a secret place of new found power
6. Neo finally learns the code, foils the enemies plan
7. Neo is resurrected as "super Neo". Trinity is also brought back from the dead.

Princess Bride:
1. Wesley is home
2.,3. Wesley travels away to fight, finds the Dread Pirate Roberts, and learns his powers/abilities from him.
4. Wesley faces many obstacles as he tries to find Buttercup. Humperdink and gang tries to stop him.
5. Wesley really dies, and then enters the secret place of Mad Max.
6. Our hero, Wesley, gets the treasure (Buttercup) and foils Humperdink and gang.
7. Wesley was literally resurrected.

Wizard of Oz:

1. Dorothy is home
2. Tornado takes her to Oz, empowered by Glenda (a good witch) with ruby slippers.
3. Tours the world of Oz to find the Wizard
4. Dorothy passes through many obstacles as an evil witch tries to stop her
5. Dorothy enters a prison, and a timer is placed on her life.
6. Dorothy kills the witch and seizes her broom (the treasure)
7. Dorothy is resurrected by her family (finally coming to from hitting her head).

LOTR:

1. Aragorn; Frodo; Gandalf
2. Discovery of the Ring of Power
3. All three travel to different places as the world is changing to evil
4. They all three face trials of many kinds, with Sauron and gang trying to stop them all.
5. Aragorn falls of a cliff and "dies" -- he enters the secret place of Arwen's grace; Frodo is entering death from a stab wound -- enters the secret place of Elrond; Gandalf literally dies -- enters the secret place of the Vala.
6. They all take part in destroying the ring in significant ways, which gains them the treasure of freedom from the Dark Lord's shadow of power.
7. They all three have been resurrected in some way (Frodo several times).

THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD:

1 Jesus comes as a baby in ordinary Bethlehem.
2 Jesus is tempted in the wilderness by Satan, ministry is launched by baptism by John and a voice from Heaven (God), and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove.
3. Jesus brings the extraordinary Kingdom of God into view through His miraculous powers over the natural earthly elements.
4. Jesus goes through many trials and attempts on His life. Satan and his demons try to stop Him, and so do the rulers and powers of that day.
5. Jesus is killed and enters a secret place during his time in the grave
6. Jesus takes the keys of death and Hades, foils Satan's plans.
7. Jesus is resurrected physically.

There are many others...

Rock

[prayercloth sis]

Rhonie, I'm not going to tell you that you should read Narnia, but I have to ask ... Do you really know anything about the series or its author?


Bro. Jason,

Just to make sure I remembered correctly I went once again and looked up Narnia and the contents thereof....before responding...

I read about the series and it's author and I still would not allow it in my home or my church library...

No disrespect, this is my personal opinion....there is no such thing as a white witch...and I do not feel the things of witchcraft and or sorcery should ever be used to minister anything having to do with God...

It's like the spiritually blind leading the blind...for me...

Yes MT...love the parables of Jesus.

I consider the parables of Jesus to be on a completely different level than Harry Potter or Narnia...of course you already knew that....and I know you were kidding with me...

Also, the parables of Jesus never used sorcery or witchcraft...for those of you that don't know me...

so if Jesus didn't use it or his disciples...we shouldn't either..

Just my thoughts...sorcery, witchcraft, the study, reading, and practicing of is detrimental to our spiritual lives...

Our flesh sows unto the flesh and the Spirit unto the Spirit...

I only want the Holy Spirit...sowing in my life...

There is spiritual wickedness in high places...and low places....so be cery careful what you allow in your lives...

Blessings to you all...

Rhonie

[prayercloth sis]

It amazes me how many will read Narnia, Harry Potter and other books with similar "styles" & can tell you about each of the characters, and circumstances surrounding each of them...word for word...they have read all about the author and know all of his likes and dislikes...

But when it comes to the word of God...most don't read it with as much enthusiasm....nor can most tell you who begat who....and circumstances surrounding each of these real people ......who God himself thought it was important enough to have it written down and delivered to us today....

What about the all time selling author...

The author and finisher of our faith....

God has this awesome book called the bible...with anointed people that lived and died for us to have this book.....true and interesting stories that we all can relate to...This book has life in it....and it's words never return void....within it is the power to save that which is lost...it is a book of truth....no fiction at all....from battles, to love stories, to family situations to death....this book has climaxes that will literally change you in the twinkling of an eye....

While millions will flock to the book stores and movie theaters to see fictional characters written by a man...The Word of God continues to stand for truth, love and grace, mercy, and much more...

I will pick the bible ...There's never been another author like him and never will be..he is one of a kind....For he is the Alpha, Omega ...the begining and the end...and he has graciously allowed me life to read his book...it's the least I can do....

And with each read, I grow more and learn more....it never quits teaching no matter how many times you read it....

It's been around for over 2000 years and it's still the best book selling ever!

What a book...and What a mighty God we serve...

Rhonie

[River]

There are seven themes in every good story. Most stories have all seven, though some only have maybe some of them -- and this includes stories from all over the world and at different times in history.

I believe myth is the universal gift of God to the heart of man.

Elements of the universal myth –

1.There is a hero in ordinary surroundings.
2.There is a catalyst (something happens) which calls the hero into the adventure, and the hero receives his/her mission and/or empowerment, usually by someone very great.
3.This central character travels to an extraordinary world, (or alternatively brings the extraordinary world to the present world in an amazing way).
4.Our hero then must pass through many obstacles, trials and problems; usually with an enemy (real or imagined) who tries to stop the mission.
5.Our hero undergoes a death experience, and enters a secret place.
6.Our hero seizes a treasure and foils the enemy’s plans.
7.The hero is resurrected in some way (either real or symbolically).

These are from the “Screenwriter’s Bible”, by David Trotter (a secular writer).

The Matrix:
1. Neo is home
2. Neo eats the pill, meets Morpheus
3. Neo travels to the "real world"
4. Neo fights the agents and dangers on all sides while the "enemy" tries to stop him
5. Neo undergoes a death experience, and so does Trinity. Neo enters a secret place of new found power
6. Neo finally learns the code, foils the enemies plan
7. Neo is resurrected as "super Neo". Trinity is also brought back from the dead.

Princess Bride:
1. Wesley is home
2.,3. Wesley travels away to fight, finds the Dread Pirate Roberts, and learns his powers/abilities from him.
4. Wesley faces many obstacles as he tries to find Buttercup. Humperdink and gang tries to stop him.
5. Wesley really dies, and then enters the secret place of Mad Max.
6. Our hero, Wesley, gets the treasure (Buttercup) and foils Humperdink and gang.
7. Wesley was literally resurrected.

Wizard of Oz:

1. Dorothy is home
2. Tornado takes her to Oz, empowered by Glenda (a good witch) with ruby slippers.
3. Tours the world of Oz to find the Wizard
4. Dorothy passes through many obstacles as an evil witch tries to stop her
5. Dorothy enters a prison, and a timer is placed on her life.
6. Dorothy kills the witch and seizes her broom (the treasure)
7. Dorothy is resurrected by her family (finally coming to from hitting her head).

LOTR:

1. Aragorn; Frodo; Gandalf
2. Discovery of the Ring of Power
3. All three travel to different places as the world is changing to evil
4. They all three face trials of many kinds, with Sauron and gang trying to stop them all.
5. Aragorn falls of a cliff and "dies" -- he enters the secret place of Arwen's grace; Frodo is entering death from a stab wound -- enters the secret place of Elrond; Gandalf literally dies -- enters the secret place of the Vala.
6. They all take part in destroying the ring in significant ways, which gains them the treasure of freedom from the Dark Lord's shadow of power.
7. They all three have been resurrected in some way (Frodo several times).

THE GREATEST STORY EVER TOLD:

1 Jesus comes as a baby in ordinary Bethlehem.
2 Jesus is tempted in the wilderness by Satan, ministry is launched by baptism by John and a voice from Heaven (God), and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove.
3. Jesus brings the extraordinary Kingdom of God into view through His miraculous powers over the natural earthly elements.
4. Jesus goes through many trials and attempts on His life. Satan and his demons try to stop Him, and so do the rulers and powers of that day.
5. Jesus is killed and enters a secret place during his time in the grave
6. Jesus takes the keys of death and Hades, foils Satan's plans.
7. Jesus is resurrected physically.

There are many others...

Rock

Wow, that's a great post.

"I believe myth is the universal gift of God to the heart of man."
As do I, I just could not have worded it so well. :)

[Jason]

Rhonie, I asked because CS Lewis, the author, is one of the greatest Christian thinkers of our times. His nonfiction book Mere Christianity brought me to a saving knowledge of Christ. In that book, Lewis said that Jesus claims to be God. Either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic, or He is indeed Lord. Lewis tore apart the liar and lunatic arguments. leaving only one conclusion ... Jesus is Lord.

CS Lewis' series of books The Chronicles of Narnia is an allegory. The lion Aslan represents Christ and the White Witch represents Satan.

I may not suggest that every Christian read Narnia, but I do highly recommend reading Mere Christianity.

[ExtravagantlyLoved]

It amazes me how many will read Narnia, Harry Potter and can tell you about each of the characters, and circumstances surrounding each of them...

But when it comes to the word of God...most don't read it with as much enthusiasm....and can't tell you who begat who....and circumstances surrounding each of these real people ......who God himself thought it was important enough to have it written down and delivered to us today....

God has this awesome book called the bible...with awesome people that lived and died for us to have this book.....

yet millions will flock book stores and movie theaters to see fictional characters written by a man...to find about mataphors that may or may not relate to the word of God...

I will pick the bible only and always...best author and best seller.....

It's been around for over 2000 years and still going strong...

What a book...and What a mighty God we serve...

Rhonie
I just wanted to say, that while I am a Harry Potter enthusiast, I do get just as excited about reading the Bible. I read it daily, and everytime I open it, I amazed over and over again at how truly amazing God is.

I worked at a church camp this summer, and one of the main things that I felt I could not impress upon those kids enough is the importance of reading the Word of God. No matter how many times it was said, I felt like it needed to be said again. And the reason I feel so strongly about it, is because I've always enjoyed reading (always had my nose in a book as a kid) but I only picked up and read the Bible once in a great while. And whyen I did read, it was usually always something I had read before. Then later on in my life, within the last two years actually, when I started reading it everyday and really getting in there and studying it, I wondered why in the world I hadn't been doing it before then. Now, if I ever go a day without reading the Bible, then I notice it little ways. My day doesn't seem to go as well, and I just don't feel right. That's the only way I know how to describe it.

So, while I firmly believe that Harry Potter is a good thing, I do agree that with you, Rhonie that reading the Word of God is a much more important thing, and I think it's way too easy for we who call ourselves followers of Christ to neglect doing it.

[middletree]

What's the different between that statement and an eyeroll?

There's a huge difference. I don't think I can explain it, though.

[middletree]

I believe myth is the universal gift of God to the heart of man.
Elements of the universal myth –


You should read "Epic" by John Eldredge. He makes this same point, and the book is great. Unfortunately, nobody but me bought it, because it wasn't "Wild at Heart --the Sequel", and bears no resemblance to WAH. But he uses Scripture to back up what you have said in this great post of yours.

[prayercloth sis]

Rhonie, I asked because CS Lewis, the author, is one of the greatest Christian thinkers of our times. His nonfiction book Mere Christianity brought me to a saving knowledge of Christ. In that book, Lewis said that Jesus claims to be God. Either Jesus was a liar, a lunatic, or He is indeed Lord. Lewis tore apart the liar and lunatic arguments. leaving only one conclusion ... Jesus is Lord.

CS Lewis' series of books The Chronicles of Narnia is an allegory. The lion Aslan represents Christ and the White Witch represents Satan.

I may not suggest that every Christian read Narnia, but I do highly recommend reading Mere Christianity.




Brother Jason,

I have not read the book "Mere Christianity", and I am so glad to know that this book has blessed your life in such a wonderful way. That is awesome!

I do realize that Bro. Lewis in my humble opinion was using a type and shadow and i might would use the word allegory to describe the writing of some of his books.

My concern is that so many people today do not have ANY knowledge of the word of God.

Most do not have a understanding of what they believe or why they believe it, they have just taken someones word for it. It's a casual thing to them not an eternity thing.

There is a lot of bad teaching out there. Not all folks are as learned as you Bro. Jason as well as others here in this forum.

Many would not get the connection nor understand the principals that Bro. Lewis is trying to convey.

My personal preference, and my personal convictions are to never use things concerning witchcraft, sorcery and magic to minister the knowledge of God.

There are spirits that deceive and confuse the minds of those that are not founded in the word of God.

It's a being safe and not sorry type of thing for me.

Many do not even realize that this book is fictional/Christian. (Narnia)

This scripture comes to mind: Rev. 12:9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world; he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him.

There is really deceiving spirits in the earth today and we must be careful.

I also believe Jesus is Lord and God. Which is why I went ahead and was baptized in Jesus name.

I am sincerely not trying to be disrespectful, just being extra careful....concerning these matters...

Matt. 24:4 & 24. I can not ignore deceiving spirits...and the bible tells of Simon the sorcerer that deceived many...by bewitching them...

We just need to be extra careful.

I am not saying Bro. Lewis is at all...

But the H P books...in my opinion promote sorcery, witchcraft and deception.

These are just my personal thoughts, I mean no disrespect towards anyone here. I am just simply sharing my point of view. I pray that I offend no one by these comments. In Jesus name amen.

Truly, I do not wish to hurt anyone!
Rhonie

[prayercloth sis]

I just wanted to say, that while I am a Harry Potter enthusiast, I do get just as excited about reading the Bible. I read it daily, and everytime I open it, I amazed over and over again at how truly amazing God is.

I worked at a church camp this summer, and one of the main things that I felt I could not impress upon those kids enough is the importance of reading the Word of God. No matter how many times it was said, I felt like it needed to be said again. And the reason I feel so strongly about it, is because I've always enjoyed reading (always had my nose in a book as a kid) but I only picked up and read the Bible once in a great while. And whyen I did read, it was usually always something I had read before. Then later on in my life, within the last two years actually, when I started reading it everyday and really getting in there and studying it, I wondered why in the world I hadn't been doing it before then. Now, if I ever go a day without reading the Bible, then I notice it little ways. My day doesn't seem to go as well, and I just don't feel right. That's the only way I know how to describe it.

So, while I firmly believe that Harry Potter is a good thing, I do agree that with you, Rhonie that reading the Word of God is a much more important thing, and I think it's way too easy for we who call ourselves followers of Christ to neglect doing it.



Point understood,.

I am so glad to hear of your love for the word of God, it gets better and better every time .....i read it...

Thank you for sharing and God Bless you...

Rhonie

[Andi]

These are just my personal thoughts, I mean no disrespect towards anyone here. I am just simply sharing my point of view. I pray that I offend no one by these comments. In Jesus name amen.

Truly, I do not wish to hurt anyone!
Rhonie

Rhonie - you are such a sweet godly woman!

Your comments do not offend me in the least. You are more mature in your faith than I am (there is no doubt about that) so your posts have wisdom to share for the "newborns" like myself. And I thank you for that!

plus...your point of view counts just as much as everyone else's.

Andi

[rossid]

To keep it ambiguous, Dumbledore's 'preference' shall we say - http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303760,00.html

[ausgirl]

I guess Rowling is right in her assumptions!

[clemsontigers23]

It's interesting that Rowling is implying Christians are intolerant because they don't like her books.

If I ever have kids, they're not reading Harry Potter. It's as simple as that. This was the last straw.

What does she mean by urging her fans to "question authority"? Seriously, how can anyone make the argument that this book is safe for kids?