Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell

[SirMax]

Mark suggested this book awhile back...it's excellent. I read it on the plane while flying to Sri Lanka. I read it again on the way back home and I've read it again since then.

I am going to take one chapter at a time. Come discuss or go buy it and then discuss!

I love to read but the book pretty much has to grab me by the first 20 pages or it ends up sitting on my shelf. Well this one had me by the time I had read the second page. I like to highlight in my books that I plan to keep and I believe I've highlighted something on just about every page of this book.

Here are my questions from chapter one:

1) From page 11...."Christian faith is alive only when it is listening, morphing, innovating, letting go of whatever has gotten in the way of Jesus and embracing whatever will help us be more and more the people God wants us to be."

So what are you holding onto [because of comfort, tradition, fear,etc] that has gotten in the way of Jesus?

This question has been on my mind alot lately. I've stopped doing alot of "stuff" just to be doing it. I've tried to figure out what I'm supposed to be focused on in order to be the person God wants me to be...still figuring it out.

2) From page 14 "If it is true, then it's not new."

Your thoughts?

I just like this quote. Solomon tells us in Ecclesiastes 1:9 "there is nothing new under the sun."

3) From page 27 "You rarely defend the things you love. You enjoy them and tell others about them and invite others to enjoy them with you."

Okay this quote hit me between the eyes. I can talk all day about my husband, my dogs, my hobbies, Third Day;) but not Jesus. What's up with that? Does that mean I love Him less? Why am I not sharing Him with everyone I talk to in the course of my day?

4) From pages 28-30
Bell talks about having people write down questions or doubts they had about God and Jesus and the Bible and faith and church. The questions were many and honest. He makes the statement on page 30 that "it wasn't the information that helped them-it was simply being in an environment in which they were free to voice what was inside."

Do you question? Do you have doubts? Do you feel as if you can ask questions? Have you ever been truly honest with God and just asked?

I have. Last year when I was dealing with quite a few personal issues I wanted to know why. I did not understand why all of it was happening at once. Why some of it was happening at all. How I was going to deal with it. Brian (my husband) told me to just ask God. He said that God was big enough to handle my questions and my doubts. God was not going to smite me down for asking. He was not going to beat me up for it and He would give me peace just because I asked. Some of the issues I have gotten answers as to why but some I haven't and I don't think I ever will. We are currently studying the book of Job and do you realize that Job asked but God never answered Job's main question of why? It's not always the answers we need...just knowing we can ask can bring peace and comfort.

5) From page 34
"If you study the Bible and it doesn't lead you to wonder and awe, then you haven't studied the Bible."

That's one of my favorite quotes in the book. What is yours?

Looking forward to the discussion. Raise your own questions and opinions too!!!

[googledoll]

Thanks for starting this thread, Wendy. VE is one of my favorite books and I didn't feel like we covered much of it in discussion the first time around. I'll need a refresher. I'll jump in soon.

Be reading up on "Brickianity". That's my pet concept of this book.

[googledoll]

1) From page 11...."Christian faith is alive only when it is listening, morphing, innovating, letting go of whatever has gotten in the way of Jesus and embracing whatever will help us be more and more the people God wants us to be."

So what are you holding onto [because of comfort, tradition, fear,etc] that has gotten in the way of Jesus?

Unfortunately, I don't have to think too hard on this. Bitterness; it's a cold comfort.

2) From page 14 "If it is true, then it's not new."

Your thoughts?

Another truth concept from this book that I loved, "All truth is God's truth."
Spirituality and truth are not confined by our understanding.


4) From pages 28-30
Bell talks about having people write down questions or doubts they had about God and Jesus and the Bible and faith and church. The questions were many and honest. He makes the statement on page 30 that "it wasn't the information that helped them-it was simply being in an environment in which they were free to voice what was inside."

Do you question? Do you have doubts? Do you feel as if you can ask questions? Have you ever been truly honest with God and just asked?

I can honestly say this doesn't come up for me very often. I've never been one to question 'why'. My strategy in life has always been to adapt. I sometimes question the path God leads me on and where it will take me, but I rarely question why He's taking me.
I think of a 4 year old asking the question, "Why?" No matter how many times you answer them, the questioning continues, because they can't understand the answers given. God could lay it all out for me and I still wouldn't understand it.

5) From page 34
"If you study the Bible and it doesn't lead you to wonder and awe, then you haven't studied the Bible."

That's one of my favorite quotes in the book. What is yours?

Ugh! I don't have the book with me and I don't want to misquote. I will double check tonight and edit this post accordingly.

[jabob]

1) From page 11...."Christian faith is alive only when it is listening, morphing, innovating, letting go of whatever has gotten in the way of Jesus and embracing whatever will help us be more and more the people God wants us to be."
So what are you holding onto [because of comfort, tradition, fear,etc] that has gotten in the way of Jesus?

My fear of failure causes me to not attempt things.

2) From page 14 "If it is true, then it's not new."
Your thoughts?

“Just because it’s new to me; does not mean it is new to you”.

3) From page 27 "You rarely defend the things you love. You enjoy them and tell others about them and invite others to enjoy them with you."

Exactly! I refuse to debate and defend my faith any longer. I know no one can change my mind and I really doubt I can change anyone else’s. But I would love for them to get to experience the things I do with God. Silly example: I love Peanut Butter and Dill Pickle sandwiches. Everyone thinks it sounds gross. I no longer explain the joy of it; I just invite them to taste. Almost everyone who is brave enough to try likes it.

4) From pages 28-30
Bell talks about having people write down questions or doubts they had about God and Jesus and the Bible and faith and church. The questions were many and honest. He makes the statement on page 30 that "it wasn't the information that helped them-it was simply being in an environment in which they were free to voice what was inside."
Do you question? Do you have doubts? Do you feel as if you can ask questions? Have you ever been truly honest with God and just asked?

I love the idea of questions. However, the doubt part bothers me. I understand having doubts about church, but not God. The problem is we have confused the two. We look for in our church what we should be finding in God and sometimes vice-versa.
The top paragraph on page 30 poses a problem for me. I don’t want to go around all the time sharing burdens – mine or everyone else’s.

5) From page 34
"If you study the Bible and it doesn't lead you to wonder and awe, then you haven't studied the Bible."
That's one of my favorite quotes in the book. What is yours?

One of my favorite is also from page 34: “You don’t have to know anything about the springs to pursue living ‘the way’”. That is instant freedom.

[Psycho Mom]

I am at the beach but I will come back to this as well. I loved this book so much. It has been well over a year since I read it. Just did a lesson in Sunday School with my girls that had a question and answer of things that are absolutely true, don't really matter and so forth. I know the writer of the lesson had to have read Bell's book. The last one for discussion was "all truth is God's truth". I like Traci loved the Brickianity and also the whole explanation of the Yoke. I will pull it back out so I can get some quotes when I get home.

[jabob]

Way: footnote #2
"Seen" translates as "to understand". Jesus was not just showing us what God was like, he was providing a portal for comprehending God that was not available before.

Springs:
page 21
The last question on the page is bothersome; "Perhaps a better question than who's right, is who's living rightly?" It implies there still may be some sort of checklist or litmus test.

page 22
The term "trinity" is not in the Bible ad was not around until long after Jesus' death. That does not make the meaning of it less true.

Questions:
page 32
The fact that knowledge about God just brings more questions is why many don't want to know more. They fear the questions.

page 33
I believe every time we feel love for someone else, it is a glimpse of what God feels all the time. Every time we feel loved it is a glimpse of what God wants from us.

page 36
Warning! Cynicism ahead!
Would he still say "God I can't believe I get to live this life" if he didn't have a nice home, wonderful family, and a trampoline?

[Yippy]

Okay this quote hit me between the eyes. I can talk all day about my husband, my dogs, my hobbies, Third Day;) but not Jesus. What's up with that? Does that mean I love Him less? Why am I not sharing Him with everyone I talk to in the course of my day?


Because people don't respond to Jesus the way they would your dog or your husband. Dogs, husbands, hobbies, & Third Day don't threaten people the way Jesus does. Most people are repelled by "the only Way." You wouldn't strike up a ditty of a conversation in the grocery line about Jesus the way you would your dog or the latest LOST episode. Not unless you want to make people feel uncomfortable and look like a "the end is near" type. Not that that matters, but people are drawn to Christ through relationship. Sharing & "talking" can be different things. I've seen people talk about Jesus and not have their life line up or they talk & run... Life with Christ isn't just about being excited about talking about Him anyway, like he's another hobby. I can feel a ramble coming on, so I'll end this. :D I just wouldn't beat yourself up about it (not that you are). I think there's so much more to it than that. I think our life expresses Christ much better than our words.

[SirMax]

Way: footnote #2
"Seen" translates as "to understand". Jesus was not just showing us what God was like, he was providing a portal for comprehending God that was not available before.

I think we forget that this was a concept very foreign to the Jews in Jesus' day. I dont think "understanding" God was even thought to be an attainable goal. Of course we will never totally understand Him but Jesus gives us a more personal look at God the Father. The term Abba was never used to refer to God and then Jesus does it and tells us to do the same. It is very comforting to know we can see God as our Father and draw near to Him.

Springs:
page 21
The last question on the page is bothersome; "Perhaps a better question than who's right, is who's living rightly?" It implies there still may be some sort of checklist or litmus test.

I've read this several times now and perhaps the question refers to this statement: "This kind of life Jesus was living, perfectly and completely in connection and cooperation with God, is the best possible way for a person to live." In this context maybe Bell is asking who is living completely and in cooperation with God. Of course we will never live perfectly as Jesus did but we can try to live in connection with God which Bell states is "the best possible way for a person to live". That would be living rightly I guess.

page 22
The term "trinity" is not in the Bible ad was not around until long after Jesus' death. That does not make the meaning of it less true.

No argument here.
Questions:
page 32
The fact that knowledge about God just brings more questions is why many don't want to know more. They fear the questions.

I believe people fear questions with no answers also. As we are studying Job at church we are confronted with the fact that God does not tell Job why this is happening to him. Job questions God but doesn't get an answer. I don't like questions with no answers...they are hard to accept.

page 33
I believe every time we feel love for someone else, it is a glimpse of what God feels all the time. Every time we feel loved it is a glimpse of what God wants from us.

I love you man!;)
page 36
Warning! Cynicism ahead!
Would he still say "God I can't believe I get to live this life" if he didn't have a nice home, wonderful family, and a trampoline?

I could ask myself the very same thing!

[SirMax]

Because people don't respond to Jesus the way they would your dog or your husband. Dogs, husbands, hobbies, & Third Day don't threaten people the way Jesus does. Most people are repelled by "the only Way." You wouldn't strike up a ditty of a conversation in the grocery line about Jesus the way you would your dog or the latest LOST episode. Not unless you want to make people feel uncomfortable and look like a "the end is near" type. Not that that matters, but people are drawn to Christ through relationship. Sharing & "talking" can be different things. I've seen people talk about Jesus and not have their life line up or they talk & run... Life with Christ isn't just about being excited about talking about Him anyway, like he's another hobby. I can feel a ramble coming on, so I'll end this. :D I just wouldn't beat yourself up about it (not that you are). I think there's so much more to it than that. I think our life expresses Christ much better than our words.

Good point.

[Yippy]

page 36
Warning! Cynicism ahead!
Would he still say "God I can't believe I get to live this life" if he didn't have a nice home, wonderful family, and a trampoline?

I could ask myself the very same thing!
I can say that I actually felt closer to God and sensed his presence most clearly when we were our poorest and when I was my sickest. The peace & joy was tangible. My biggest goal in life is to attain this spiritual height while everything is okay.:D I haven't figured that one out yet (actually, I think I have, I just haven't done it...'cause...well...:o ).

I would love to ask certain people in my life that question.

[jabob]

I can say that I actually felt closer to God and sensed his presence most clearly when we were our poorest and when I was my sickest. The peace & joy was tangible. My biggest goal in life is to attain this spiritual height while everything is okay.:D I haven't figured that one out yet (actually, I think I have, I just haven't done it...'cause...well...:o ).

I would love to ask certain people in my life that question.

I think we all have people we would like to ask that of. I don't because I am unwilling to answer it myself.

[jabob]

I've read this several times now and perhaps the question refers to this statement: "This kind of life Jesus was living, perfectly and completely in connection and cooperation with God, is the best possible way for a person to live." In this context maybe Bell is asking who is living completely and in cooperation with God. Of course we will never live perfectly as Jesus did but we can try to live in connection with God which Bell states is "the best possible way for a person to live". That would be living rightly I guess.

I think the only legitimate question is, "Am I living in cooperation with God?".


I love you man!;)


Right back atcha!
See, now I know what God wants and how He feels.

[SirMax]

Hey Lori...I see you....I REALLY need to get back into this thread.

Make some comments and when I get home tomorrow (I'm at work) I'll get my book back out.
;)