Apple Vs. Pc

[ota_maasiya]

I currently own a VAIO, but have been hearing from some of my groupies that APPLE systems are better - ANY THOUGHTS? *no biting!*
:rolleyes: :)

[Whiteheart]

I use an eMAc. Personally I would never go back to a PC if I had a choice.

[-_-prune-man-_-]

I have a PC but I would like to change to an Apple Mac, my pc is the latest HP one, so it doesnt run bad, but I prefer the interface on a mac, although saying that I havent installed my copy of windows vista yet!

[The Unknown Gomer]

I've got a Vaio desktop and a Compaq laptop. And have never had one iota of trouble with them, except the little bit that I accidently caused. :o

I've always used PCs, either prebuilt branded ones or ones that I've pieced together myself. Nothing against Macs; when I bought my very first PC, I just went with the one that had the most software available, and stuck with it.

[Buttabean]

I use a mac. I adore every minute of it. :cool: I grew up with Macs--our first computer was an apple IIe, and then we got a Macintosh with Mac OS 7 on it. :eek: Then I was forced to go the route of the PC's for a while--which were bad experiences all around. I saved up some cash, used a college refund, and bought an iBook 2 years ago. NEVER had a SINGLE problem with it.

It got old and beat up (carrying it in my backpack, taking it on trips, etc. I was hard on that thing) and a little outdated (it wouldn't have been able to run the new OS coming out soon) so I treated myself to a new mid-level Macbook on my birthday this past December. Again, NO problems at all. And now that I've got one with Intel, I have the option of running windows on it (like that will ever happen, but it is an option. :p )

My fiancé Josh (Strider) has the black macbook, and runs windows on it through a program called Parallels--it opens the Windows in a separate window on the Mac desktop, so you don't have to restart your computer in order to get it to switch over. And you can obviously expand the window to make it full screen. Pretty nifty if you ask me. :D

(I use parentheses a lot...)


(oh, and P.S.-- Microsoft is a giant copy cat!!!! I love that they kept putting off the disclosure of vista...I bet they were adding more apple-like features in as Apple was putting them out. Jerks. Even their new set of background pictures look disgustingly close to Apples. Grr.)

[middletree]

(oh, and P.S.-- Microsoft is a giant copy cat!!!! I love that they kept putting off the disclosure of vista...I bet they were adding more apple-like features in as Apple was putting them out. Jerks. Even their new set of background pictures look disgustingly close to Apples. Grr.)

I'm shocked to see that you have an opinion on this, buttabean! ;)

Apple is a copycat company, too, ya know. They didn't come up with the GUI interface. They noticed that Xerox was doing it in the 80's when that company was making computers. Microsoft might have copied the Windows idea from Apple, but Apple copied it, too.

Anyway, to answer the user's original question. Macs are good for a lot of things, but there are some myths that should be dispelled:

1. Macs are better for artistic programs. Used to be true, about 10 years ago, but now, the artists, programs of choice, such as Photoshop, run on PCs just as well as on Macs. A few programs popular with Macheads (Dreamweaver come to mind) have more features on PC than the same program on Mac.

2. Windows crashes a lot I have not seen a blue screen since Windows 2000 came out, and even when blue screens did used to occur, it was usually a hardware error or device driver that caused it, not the OS.

The only real disadvantage I see to using Macs is the incompatibility issues with PC-based programs and documents that you might want to share with someone. Since 90-95% of users are using PC, this may be a problem for you. But these incompatibility issues are getting to be less of a problem with more web-based services and other forms of integrating the two platforms.

[E. Blues Gomer]

Macs are using Intel chip sets now so in essence they're PCs now.

[middletree]

Macs are using Intel chip sets now so in essence they're PCs now.
Um, no. That is, the hardware might be, but the OS is what drives the car. The Mac OS is Unix-based, and therefore very different from the Windows OS.

[Musicdude]

I presently use an HP Pavillion DV9000 laptop at home, and a Dell Lattitude D610 laptop at work. I have never had any serious problems with either of them. And I've done some fairly intensive stuff with my home laptop, like playing 3D games, and recording up to 24 seperate tracks of audio at once to hard disk.

The audio production industry are some of the last real Mac fanatics. But most of them will admit that there is nothing you can do on a Mac that you can't do just as well on a PC. And PC's are starting to claim more and more of that market too. I use a PC for audio production all the time, and I haven't had any problems yet.

I've heard people say that Mac's are more reliable, but I've talked to people who have used them, and they are reliable, but no more than PC's.

As far as the GUI is concerned, I've heard Mac's are more user-friendly. The last Mac I used was an Apple-IIc a looong time ago, so I really don't know about the newer ones. Is Windows complicated? Sure there are sometimes several ways of doing the same task, but is that really a disadvantage? To me, it isn't. But my copy of Windows Vista should be at my door this afternoon when I get home from work. And I've heard that it resembles Mac's OS-X GUI quite a bit.

It's just a matter of personal preference. But the main reason I would just about always choose a PC over a Mac is because of available software, hardware and accessories. That is the same reason I use an Ipod for my music. When you use the most popular style of device, chances are there will always be a bigger selection, better prices, and more available accessories.

[cheewiee]

The only real disadvantage I see to using Macs is the incompatibility issues with PC-based programs and documents that you might want to share with someone. Since 90-95% of users are using PC, this may be a problem for you. But these incompatibility issues are getting to be less of a problem with more web-based services and other forms of integrating the two platforms.

Well.. since we are talking facts here...

Documents are cross platform.. My Homework that I create on my iBook, or my iMac, I can pull up and edit and change on my XP Sony Vaio. .Doc is a .doc across the board.

All the major file formats are the same. .doc, .txt, .jpg, .gif, .pdf, etc...

Second, you adress sharing programs... isn't that illegial? :confused: :D

Seriously... Games tend to be harder to come by, but with Apple picking up market share that is changing... porting venders such as Aspyre are porting more and more of the popular games into OSX every day.

So which is OS better? I prefer a OSX, Why? It really is easier to use. Everything is very intuitive. All of the hardware is propritary so drivers are all installed in OSX. the Unix/Kernal base of OSX is better than the .dll base of Windows. (Don't believe me, why is Microsoft talking about switching to unix/kernal base in the future?)

As far as a machine goes, I prefer Apple, Why? Because the hardware is propritary hardware conflicts are nil... Apple uses quality components (Not all PC builders do).

But ultimatly you have to decide what do you want out of a computer. Do you want something you can play the lattest and greatest games on? a Mac isn't for you.. If you do alot of web surfing PC's tend to be deficient in areas of security...

In my case, I made the switch because I do alot of web surfing, I do alot of video stuff for my church and FCP is way better (for me) than Premier.

[E. Blues Gomer]

Apples are using intel chip sets so you can install Windows as a 2nd OS and run windows based programs.

[Musicdude]

Apples are using intel chip sets so you can install Windows as a 2nd OS and run windows based programs.

But why would you want to? If Macs aren't faster or more reliable, or cheaper, then what is the point? I thought OS-X was the main reason people used Macs. If you are gonna use Windows anyway, you might as well use a PC. It'll be much cheaper.

[middletree]

I currently own a VAIO, but have been hearing from some of my groupies that

You have groupies?

[cheewiee]

But why would you want to? If Macs aren't faster or more reliable, or cheaper, then what is the point? I thought OS-X was the main reason people used Macs. If you are gonna use Windows anyway, you might as well use a PC. It'll be much cheaper.

Not necessarly... Multiple OSes provide the user to enjoy the benefits of both OSes...

I can have a macbook pro run all the mac apps I want.. but if I have a position at my Job where I can bring my own laptop in and install their software on to do work at home, I can dual boot, and only have one machine..

Otherwise I would be forced to buy a PC laptop in addition to a mac latop....

[middletree]

Documents are cross platform.. My Homework that I create on my iBook, or my iMac, I can pull up and edit and change on my XP Sony Vaio. .Doc is a .doc across the board.


I know. It didn't always used to be that way, and the problem with modern Macheads is that they bring up stuff that was true before, but isn't true now, such as BSODs and such.

Second, you adress sharing programs... isn't that illegial?

No, I didn't.


why is Microsoft talking about switching to unix/kernal base in the future?

They are not.

I prefer Apple, Why? Because the hardware is propritary hardware conflicts are nil...

I believe this is the one remaining Mac advantage, and it's a solid one.

But ultimatly you have to decide what do you want out of a computer. Do you want something you can play the lattest and greatest games on? a Mac isn't for you.. If you do alot of web surfing PC's tend to be deficient in areas of security...

I agree with this paragraph, except the spelling, at least for now. Macs are more secure because hackers haven't tried to penetrate them at the same rate they have with Windows.

[Musicdude]

I prefer Apple, Why? Because the hardware is propritary hardware conflicts are nil...

I believe this is the one remaining Mac advantage, and it's a solid one.

That is an advantage and a disadvantage. Aftermarket hardware is usually cheaper, and often just as reliable.

Proprietary hardware is more expensive, because there is no competition to drive down prices. I've never owned a Mac, but I bought an 80G 5th Generation Ipod a couple of months ago, and though there are a plethora of accessories available (which is the only reason I chose the Ipod over it's competition) they are ridiculously expensive. And Ipods are much more popular than Macintosh computers.

[cheewiee]

No, I didn't.

hmm.. I read that wrong.. my apologies...

I agree with this paragraph, except the spelling, at least for now. Macs are more secure because hackers haven't tried to penetrate them at the same rate they have with Windows.

Mac's share in the market place is 4.7 (over 3.6 from last year).

As long as there is that large of a difference, hackers won't bother with mac...

Why?

If you were a burgurler would you learn how to beat the security system 95.3% of the population has or 4.7?

[Musicdude]

hmm.. I read that wrong.. my apologies...



Mac's share in the market place is 4.7 (over 3.6 from last year).

As long as there is that large of a difference, hackers won't bother with mac...

Why?

If you were a burgurler would you learn how to beat the security system 95.3% of the population has or 4.7?

Yeah, but you can't really pat Apple on the back for that, because it's just the nature of things. It's not like they have any better security features. That's like saying a Ford Pinto is a great car to have because there is only one Ford Pinto stolen per every 400 Chevy Silverados stolen. I'd rather just buy a Silverado, install a good alarm, and take my chances.

If everyone bought a Mac based on that reason, pretty soon Macs would have major virus problems and PC's wouldn't anymore.

[cheewiee]

That is an advantage and a disadvantage. Aftermarket hardware is usually cheaper, and often just as reliable.

Proprietary hardware is more expensive, because there is no competition to drive down prices. I've never owned a Mac, but I bought an 80G 5th Generation Ipod a couple of months ago, and though there are a plethora of accessories available (which is the only reason I chose the Ipod over it's competition) they are ridiculously expensive. And Ipods are much more popular than Macintosh computers.

There are a pleathora of accessories available for the Mac..

However especially with hardware "under the hood" this propietary approach staves off the need for countless number of drivers to be produced for he countless number of internal hard drives/CD drives/Video cards etc.

This results in drivers being written FOR hardware included directly IN the OS.

[Musicdude]

There are a pleathora of accessories available for the Mac..

However especially with hardware "under the hood" this propietary approach staves off the need for countless number of drivers to be produced for he countless number of internal hard drives/CD drives/Video cards etc.

This results in drivers being written FOR hardware included directly IN the OS.

If that made them much more stable than PC's I would agree that it would be an advantage. But from what I've heard and seen, it really doesn't.

They might be more stable than a homemade PC, where you just pick a bunch of different components and pray that Windows will make them all play nicely together. But not a mass-produced model, like an HP Pavillion or such, which have been tested extensively and hardware chosen because it works well together. I've owned 3 HP desktops, an HP laptop, a Toshiba Laptop, which all ran Windows XP, and I've never had one have any serious issues. And I've always upgraded the sound cards, video cards, added wireless networking cards, and tons of USB and Firewire peripherals. I don't know how they could be any more stable.

[cheewiee]

Yeah, but you can't really pat Apple on the back for that, because it's just the nature of things. It's not like they have any better security features. That's like saying a Ford Pinto is a great car to have because there is only one Ford Pinto stolen per every 400 Chevy Silverados stolen. I'd rather just buy a Silverado, install a good alarm, and take my chances.

If everyone bought a Mac based on that reason, pretty soon Macs would have major virus problems and PC's wouldn't anymore.

I am not saying that is only reason Macs are more secure than PC's just one of the many reasons...

[Musicdude]

I am not saying that is only reason Macs are more secure than PC's just one of the many reasons...

In my opinion, if you don't surf in areas where you shouldn't be surfing anyway, viruses usually are not a problem.

[middletree]

In my opinion, if you don't surf in areas where you shouldn't be surfing anyway, viruses usually are not a problem.
It's not about viruses. There are plenty of bad people out there who use port scanners to get into your machine, and if you happen to be online and don't have your ports properly protected, they can get in and use your machine for bad purposes. This is more easily done in a Windows environment, for several reasons, and not all of them are Microsoft's fault.

[cheewiee]

If that made them much more stable than PC's I would agree that it would be an advantage. But from what I've heard and seen, it really doesn't.

They might be more stable than a homemade PC, where you just pick a bunch of different components and pray that Windows will make them all play nicely together. But not a mass-produced model, like an HP Pavillion or such, which have been tested extensively and hardware chosen because it works well together. I've owned 3 HP desktops, an HP laptop, a Toshiba Laptop, which all ran Windows XP, and I've never had one have any serious issues. And I've always upgraded the sound cards, video cards, added wireless networking cards, and tons of USB and Firewire peripherals. I don't know how they could be any more stable.

Good for you! Would you like a cookie?

Any computer that assembled by a manufacturer who spends time, energy, and resources in researching the components that they are putting into their computers is going to be infinatnly more stable than a custom or home built Computer..

However in the case of a Mac the software driver is built directly into the OS for all of the internal components. This system is what has garnered the Mac with a solid reputation as being a stable machine, whereas Windows image in this regard is rather tarnished.. If you doubt this, you should go youtube and watch the Dailyshow the day After the Bill Gates interview.

[middletree]

If that made them much more stable than PC's I would agree that it would be an advantage. But from what I've heard and seen, it really doesn't.

Yeah, that's the thing. I hang around newsgroups with a lot of Mac users, and they still tell each other that Windows Machines crash all the time, despite my objections. I use several computers at my job, and work resolving technical issues at other companies which have thousands of windows machines, and I can say for a fact that Windows 2000 and XP are extremely stable. But Macheads want to ignore this and perpetuate old stereotypes, because it's fun to feel superior.

[Musicdude]

Good for you! Would you like a cookie?
Yes, I would. I prefer oatmeal-raisin. ;)
I wasn't bragging. I was just pointing out that in my experience (and I use computers a lot, at home and at work) PC's are rock-solid for the most part. How can you beat zero crashes? Can you have negative crashes?

Any computer that assembled by a manufacturer who spends time, energy, and resources in researching the components that they are putting into their computers is going to be infinatnly more stable than a custom or home built Computer..
That's exactly what I was saying. And pointing out that it really isn't fair to compare the reliablility of an Apple to a homemade PC. Probably 90% of PC users don't build their own PC. They buy an HP, Toshiba, Compaq, Gateway or Dell. But for those who prefer performance over reliability, they have the option of building a hot-rod PC, whereas you don't even have the option with a MAC.

However in the case of a Mac the software driver is built directly into the OS for all of the internal components. This system is what has garnered the Mac with a solid reputation as being a stable machine, whereas Windows image in this regard is rather tarnished.. If you doubt this, you should go youtube and watch the Dailyshow the day After the Bill Gates interview.

From the people I have talked to who have used Macs for a long time, that is just not the case. The fact that Apple has a reputation of being more stable, is true. But I don't think that reputation reflects the reality of it.

[Musicdude]

Yeah, that's the thing. I hang around newsgroups with a lot of Mac users, and they still tell each other that Windows Machines crash all the time, despite my objections. I use several computers at my job, and work resolving technical issues at other companies which have thousands of windows machines, and I can say for a fact that Windows 2000 and XP are extremely stable. But Macheads want to ignore this and perpetuate old stereotypes, because it's fun to feel superior.

I guess it makes them feel better about spending twice as much as they would've spent on a PC with equal specs.

[middletree]

Good for you! Would you like a cookie?


I was hoping you'd email me a white chocolate/macademia nut one. Or a dozen.

[Musicdude]

I was hoping you'd email me a white chocolate/macademia nut one. Or a dozen.

Ooh, that does sound good. Can I change my order? :D

[cheewiee]

Yeah, that's the thing. I hang around newsgroups with a lot of Mac users, and they still tell each other that Windows Machines crash all the time, despite my objections. I use several computers at my job, and work resolving technical issues at other companies which have thousands of windows machines, and I can say for a fact that Windows 2000 and XP are extremely stable. But Macheads want to ignore this and perpetuate old stereotypes, because it's fun to feel superior.

Windows 2000 and XP are extremely stable.. but Both are resource Hogs...

I was a die hard PC user.. I used to bash the mac users I knew at the time... All that changed when I started using FCP. I was an Adobe Premeir user and well Its a great program, and I met and exceeded the recomended specifications for the program. Yet Premeir did on a farily consistant basis lock up, shut down, and on a few occasions give me the BSD. This was using XP. So yes XP machines still spit out the BSD, still lock up.

I don't have that issue with Mac. I never once had FCP shut down on me. My biggest issue is that from time to time Firefox will exit (after I visit my myspace page). But I honestly prefer Safari as a browser anyway.

Again, for the end user, macs are incredibly more intuituve. It only took me just a hours to adjust to the FCP workflow verses weeks and weeks learning premeir. (Yes I am aware that the similar concepts helped).

They are more secure for various reasons.

And there are tremendous advantages with going with a propritory system.

[Musicdude]

Windows 2000 and XP are extremely stable.. but Both are resource Hogs...

I was a die hard PC user.. I used to bash the mac users I knew at the time... All that changed when I started using FCP. I was an Adobe Premeir user and well Its a great program, and I met and exceeded the recomended specifications for the program. Yet Premeir did on a farily consistant basis lock up, shut down, and on a few occasions give me the BSD. This was using XP. So yes XP machines still spit out the BSD, still lock up.

I don't have that issue with Mac. I never once had FCP shut down on me. My biggest issue is that from time to time Firefox will exit (after I visit my myspace page). But I honestly prefer Safari as a browser anyway.

Again, for the end user, macs are incredibly more intuituve. It only took me just a hours to adjust to the FCP workflow verses weeks and weeks learning premeir. (Yes I am aware that the similar concepts helped).

They are more secure for various reasons.

And there are tremendous advantages with going with a propritory system.

I know of quite a few programs that consistently lock up Macs too. Ever heard of ProTools-HD? It's an audio production suite which runs about $10,000. That isn't the Mac's fault, just as it isn't Window's fault when Adobe locks it up. I haven't seen a BSD since Windows 98. I never even saw one with Windows ME.

Most of the time I come in contact with Mac users is in the pro-audio production world. And I have seen and heard about Macs locking up all the time when recording multi-track audio, whereas my PC handles it just fine. Granted lot's of PC users have had problems like this too, maybe I've just been lucky. But I've been lucky with the last 4 PC's I've tried it with. Pretty good statistics, in my opinion.

I wouldn't condemn an operating system just because it has a conflict with one of my applications.

[Musicdude]

Again, for the end user, macs are incredibly more intuituve.
In your opinion, maybe. I think Windows XP is extremely intuitive. You can do just about anything with a right-click.

It only took me just a hours to adjust to the FCP workflow verses weeks and weeks learning premeir. (Yes I am aware that the similar concepts helped).

That is a third-party software issue. What has it got to do with the operating systems?


And there are tremendous advantages with going with a propritory system.

So you say. There are also many disadvantages, as I have pointed out. If my hardware crashes, I have a huge range of products to choose from to replace it with, and they are reliable, and reasonably priced, and I can get them from my local Best Buy or Circuit City, and I don't have to try and find an Apple Store, or buy online.

[cheewiee]

I know of quite a few programs that consistently lock up Macs too. That isn't the Mac's fault, just as it isn't Window's fault when Adobe locks it up. I've never seen a BSD since Windows 98. I never even saw one with Windows ME.

Most of the time I come in contact with Mac users is in the pro-audio production world. And I have seen and heard about Macs locking up all the time when recording multi-track audio, whereas my PC handles it just fine. Granted lot's of PC users have had problems like this too, maybe I've just been lucky. But I've been lucky with the last 4 PC's I've tried it with. Pretty good statistics, in my opinion.

I wouldn't condemn an operating system just because it has a conflict with one of my applications.

What kind of system did they have?

The fact is when you go into recording multi-track audio, and you are running plugins like effects and such you need a beast. (I understand alot of that applies for video as well)

I know people who run logic on a G4 Powerbook with 1 gig of ram with 16+ recorded tracks without a problem...

And I am not condemning an operating system because of one application.. I have given a laundry list of reasons why OSX may be a better choice for some people. Your the one who is prostylizing about the benefits of windows without considering that for some people OSX might be a better choice.

[cheewiee]

So you say. There are also many disadvantages, as I have pointed out. If my hardware crashes, I have a huge range of products to choose from to replace it with, and they are reliable, and reasonably priced, and I can get them from my local Best Buy or Circuit City, and I don't have to try and find an Apple Store, or buy online.

I can goto any CompUSA, or Bestbuy to purchase a Mac....

But your right I will probibly buy it online... (besides isn't Dell the largest PC manufacturer anyway):D

[Musicdude]

What kind of system did they have?

The fact is when you go into recording multi-track audio, and you are running plugins like effects and such you need a beast. (I understand alot of that applies for video as well)

I know people who run logic on a G4 Powerbook with 1 gig of ram with 16+ recorded tracks without a problem...

And I am not condemning an operating system because of one application.. I have given a laundry list of reasons why OSX may be a better choice for some people. Your the one who is prostylizing about the benefits of windows without considering that for some people OSX might be a better choice.

I'm just saying that whenever I bought the cheap version of ProTools a while back, because it was supposedly "the best available audio software" I looked into the Digidesign forums, for help getting setup, because there is a lot to that if you've never done it before.

And since that software is available for Mac and PC (though originally it was only for Mac) there are forums for PC users with technical issues, and another forum for Mac users with technical issues. And there were just as many Mac users complaining about crashes as there were PC users. And they weren't going with minimal spec'd machines either.

And most people don't even use plug-ins when they record (they add them later, during the mixing process.) But even so, it should be able to handle it. And when I decided to give up on Pro Tools and bought Sonar (which is a PC only program, designed for PC's) it worked flawlessly. I downloaded the free demo before I bought it, and intentionally tried to lock it up, by opening like 30 tracks and adding tons of plugins and such, and I could'nt lock it up. I was sold. But I was just surprised to see so many problems with Macs, because like everyone else, I too had always heard how reliable they were.

A friend of my dad's builds PC's as a side-job (an electrician for a chemical plant, by day) and his wife has always used Macs, because that's just what she learned on. So he has been around Macs and PCs a lot, and uses a PC that he built. He said that neither is more stable than the other. They both occaisionally have issues, but for the most part they are both fairly reliable.

I think Mac's reputation is nothing more than hype. I'm not saying they aren't good machines, with good software. I'm just saying they aren't any better than a decent PC (not a cheapo, of course.)

[Musicdude]

I can goto any CompUSA, or Bestbuy to purchase a Mac....

That's weird. I've never seen a Mac at a Best Buy. Maybe it's different in different areas.

But your right I will probibly buy it online... (besides isn't Dell the largest PC manufacturer anyway):D

Dells are ok. But they have proprietary hardware also, and that is why I won't buy a Dell. lol

[cheewiee]

I'm just saying that whenever I bought the cheap version of ProTools a while back, because it was supposedly "the best available audio software" I looked into the Digidesign forums, for help getting setup, because there is a lot to that if you've never done it before.

And since that software is available for Mac and PC (though originally it was only for Mac) there are forums for PC users with technical issues, and another forum for Mac users with technical issues. And there were just as many Mac users complaining about crashes as there were PC users. And they weren't going with minimal spec'd machines either.

And most people don't even use plug-ins when they record (then add them later, during the mixing process.) But even so, it should be able to handle it. And when I decided to give up on Pro Tools and bought Sonar (which is a PC only program, designed for PC's) it worked flawlessly. I downloaded the free demo before I bought it, and intentionally tried to lock it up, by opening like 30 tracks and adding tons of plugins and such, and I could'nt lock it up. I was sold. But I was just surprised to see so many problems with Macs, because like everyone else, I too had always heard how reliable they were.

A friend of my dad's build PC's as a side-job (an electrician for a chemical plant, by day) and his wife has always used Macs, because that's just what she learned on. So he has been around Macs and PCs a lot, and uses a PC that he built. He said that neither is more stable than the other. They both occaisionally have issues, but for the most part they are both fairly reliable.

I think Mac's reputation is nothing more than hype. I'm not saying they aren't good machines, with good software. I'm just saying they aren't any better than a decent PC (not a cheapo, of course.)

I agree.. mostly.. I think the price thing is a myth.... There are a few websites out there that address it as such comparing apples to apples (no pun intended) where price is concerned...

[Musicdude]

MAC PRO 2.66 DUAL XEON DUAL CORE COMPUTER $2499

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HP TV m7690n Desktop PC featuring Intel Core 2 Duo E6400/2GB memory/500GB Hard Drive $1,699 ($1599 after rebate)

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What exactly do you get for your extra $900 ?


Fry's has got just about as reasonable prices as anyone.

[cheewiee]

MAC PRO 2.66 DUAL XEON DUAL CORE COMPUTER $2499

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/4952031?site=sr:SEARCH:MA IN_RSLT_PG


HP TV m7690n Desktop PC featuring Intel Core 2 Duo E6400/2GB memory/500GB Hard Drive $1,699 ($1599 after rebate)

http://shop1.outpost.com/product/5037035?site=sr:SEARCH:MA IN_RSLT_PG



What exactly do you get for your extra $900 ?


Fry's has got just about as reasonable prices as anyone.


Your Kidding right???

Ok lets look at the processer..

PC - Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (Dual Core Processer) $319.45
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.shop.com/op/~Intel_Corp_Core_2_Duo_E6 400_Processor-prod-34927336-45545850%3Fsourceid%3D298&ei=u0zCReOiH4q4iwHxxa2nCg&sig2=nl5glAg7uHRa6w4V6idU JA&fr=AOOAhrVRnOvCWHdaBMaIa4 3eQPPrQlM5Ax6wCQwGg4IhAAA AAAAAAAA&sa=X&oi=froogle&ct=result&cd=3&usg=__Wfpmw6_V9t7GTUh_nSw wHoynCVo=
Mac - Two 2GHz, 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon 5100 series processors (2 Dual Core Processers) $739.99

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.xpcgear.com/bx805565150a.html&ei=oEzCRfGXNZC4iwHoss2oCg&sig2=UMg8H1TwaqF8u7zQWhrC Mw&fr=AF1Y4pG5bPjXg01tFv-iUdlV9j0r7GQjJXoI4Q5lZ7n8 z38HvMNKJV0AAAAAAAAAAA&sa=X&oi=froogle&ct=result&cd=1&usg=__Sr-RJD7lOqW8ASuqLwlQeUHYYzk=

Right there is a BIG difference with just the processors...

I said APPLES to APPLES.. not Apples to Oranges..

[cheewiee]

Here you go....
This is a website that does an apples to apples comparison

http://www.systemshootouts.org/

[Musicdude]

Your Kidding right???

Ok lets look at the processer..

PC - Intel Core 2 Duo E6400 (Dual Core Processer) $319.45
http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.shop.com/op/~Intel_Corp_Core_2_Duo_E6 400_Processor-prod-34927336-45545850%3Fsourceid%3D298&ei=u0zCReOiH4q4iwHxxa2nCg&sig2=nl5glAg7uHRa6w4V6idU JA&fr=AOOAhrVRnOvCWHdaBMaIa4 3eQPPrQlM5Ax6wCQwGg4IhAAA AAAAAAAA&sa=X&oi=froogle&ct=result&cd=3&usg=__Wfpmw6_V9t7GTUh_nSw wHoynCVo=
Mac - Two 2GHz, 2.66GHz Dual-Core Intel Xeon 5100 series processors (2 Dual Core Processers) $739.99

http://www.google.com/url?q=http://www.xpcgear.com/bx805565150a.html&ei=oEzCRfGXNZC4iwHoss2oCg&sig2=UMg8H1TwaqF8u7zQWhrC Mw&fr=AF1Y4pG5bPjXg01tFv-iUdlV9j0r7GQjJXoI4Q5lZ7n8 z38HvMNKJV0AAAAAAAAAAA&sa=X&oi=froogle&ct=result&cd=1&usg=__Sr-RJD7lOqW8ASuqLwlQeUHYYzk=

Right there is a BIG difference with just the processors...

I said APPLES to APPLES.. not Apples to Oranges..

I'm not exremely familiar with the new Intel processors or how they are spec'd. That was the most expensive PC that Fry's offered. And it is a dual core, like the Mac, and the speed is close to the Mac. That's all I was going on.
The one in my laptop is only a 1.6Ghz, whereas my old desktop was a 3.4Ghz, but the laptop smokes my old desktop. So I think the dual core is much more effecient. But I don't really understand it all.

[cheewiee]

I'm not exremely familiar with the new Intel processors or how they are spec'd. That was the most expensive PC that Fry's offered. And it is a dual core, like the Mac, and the speed is close to the Mac. That's all I was going on.
The one in my laptop is only a 1.6Ghz, whereas my old desktop was a 3.4Ghz, but the laptop smokes my old desktop. So I think the dual core is much more effecient. But I don't really understand it all.

You are comparing A dual core processER[/I (The Intel core duo) to TWO dual core processers. Making the Mac pro a QuadCore machine.
The difference is HUGE

[KiWi-GoMeR]

I own a Mac, they are great. But they dont seem to last as long as PCs, in my experience. You have to take more care of Macs. But to me they are better are our Apples.;)

[Musicdude]

You are comparing A dual core processER[/I (The Intel core duo) to TWO dual core processers. Making the Mac pro a QuadCore machine.
The difference is HUGE

Ok, my bad. I know very little about macs. But even if they were the same spec, aren't macs more expensive?

[Whiteheart]

Ok, my bad. I know very little about macs. But even if they were the same spec, aren't macs more expensive?

Yup,,but then again,,you always pay more for quality :p

[cheewiee]

Ok, my bad. I know very little about macs. But even if they were the same spec, aren't macs more expensive?

No that is just a myth that is perpetuated by the uninformed... Look at that website I posted, It compares like machines side by side and usually in every case the price is about the same...

People who think macs are expensive are looking at the Mac Pro or the Mac Book pro's.. but your comparing them to high end consumer PC's.. A Mac Pro is for the audio/video suite.. and when looking at costs that's what you have to compare it to something similar... like an HP blade workstation....

[Musicdude]

No that is just a myth that is perpetuated by the uninformed... Look at that website I posted, It compares like machines side by side and usually in every case the price is about the same...

People who think macs are expensive are looking at the Mac Pro or the Mac Book pro's.. but your comparing them to high end consumer PC's.. A Mac Pro is for the audio/video suite.. and when looking at costs that's what you have to compare it to something similar... like an HP blade workstation....

I guess there are stereotypes on both sides of the fence. Seeing as how I would be using it to record up to 24 tracks of audio, I was looking into the Pro level macs, when I was actually considering buying one, and the price turned me away. I'm sure that HP Blades, or Dell XPS laptops are just as high, but I don't need anywhere near that much computer to do what I need to do.

I had actually seen a test from www.sweetwater.com where they recorded up to like 80 tracks at once with a Mac Mini (which is not exactly a powerhouse.) I think the audio interface is doing most of the work in that situation. But it is in my situation as well, so one of those super notebooks are pretty much overkill for most purposes. But they are definitely cool. Just not cool enough to drop $3000 on, at least not for me. As well as dual core systems run, I can't imagine ever needing a quadcore system. But maybe some people do.

[cheewiee]

I guess there are stereotypes on both sides of the fence. Seeing as how I would be using it to record up to 24 tracks of audio, I was looking into the Pro level macs, when I was actually considering buying one, and the price turned me away. I'm sure that HP Blades, or Dell XPS laptops are just as high, but I don't need anywhere near that much computer to do what I need to do.

I had actually seen a test from www.sweetwater.com where they recorded up to like 80 tracks at once with a Mac Mini (which is not exactly a powerhouse.) I think the audio interface is doing most of the work in that situation. But it is in my situation as well, so one of those super notebooks are pretty much overkill for most purposes. But they are definitely cool. Just not cool enough to drop $3000 on, at least not for me. As well as dual core systems run, I can't imagine ever needing a quadcore system. But maybe some people do.

If you are mixing 24 audiotracks, and producing a Church Broadcast The Mac with FCP and Logic tend to be one of the most affordable solutions out there....

[Musicdude]

If you are mixing 24 audiotracks, and producing a Church Broadcast The Mac with FCP and Logic tend to be one of the most affordable solutions out there....

Maybe, but I've been using Sonar for a long time and I really like it, and they don't make a Mac version. And I already have an HP Dv9000 laptop, so it will be a while before I'm ready to buy another computer. And I play some games and stuff too, most of which aren't available on Mac.

It's hard to switch over when you've been a PC user since Windows 3.11 It might even be worth it, once you get all settled in, but it's just hard to justify it.

Who knows. Maybe in a few years...

This is what I'm using now, and it works extremely well for me.
http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c 00771977&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN

[cheewiee]

Maybe, but I've been using Sonar for a long time and I really like it, and they don't make a Mac version. And I already have an HP Dv9000 laptop, so it will be a while before I'm ready to buy another computer. And I play some games and stuff too, most of which aren't available on Mac.

It's hard to switch over when you've been a PC user since Windows 3.11 It might even be worth it, once you get all settled in, but it's just hard to justify it.

Who knows. Maybe in a few years...

I agree.. when I started my switch back in August with my iMac, and recently with my iBook.. it was weird at first, but my wife who is pretty much a computer novice adapted to OSX quickly...

[Musicdude]

I agree.. when I started my switch back in August with my iMac, and recently with my iBook.. it was weird at first, but my wife who is pretty much a computer novice adapted to OSX quickly...

I'm sure OSX is easier to learn for the first time. But if you have already been using Windows for a long time, the intuitiveness really doesn't make any difference. Whichever one you are used to is going to be easier for you.

[bassgirl192]

I think it's all just a matter of preference. I grew up using PCs. My grandpa taught me tons of stuff on them and I even started building my own to take to college. I wanted to go into graphic design. But I found out after talking to many designers that Macs were the way to go. I tried them out for myself when I job shadowed at a GD studio. I had used Adobe Creative Suite on PC before but I liked the feel of it better in a Mac. It all just went down to personal preference. I have nothing against PCs, I just like how the programs I need to use for graphic design operate in a Mac.

I have had some trouble with the AppleCare Service. When I said my DVD-R drive wasn't reading/burning properly, I wasn't kidding. I got it shipped back to me twice because they couldn't "duplicate the problem". So I'm dealing with that this summer when I don't need my laptop as much. That's really my only problem with Apple. I have a 3 year warranty on the danged thing so it should have been replaced with no questions asked. Why would I send in my laptop and let them have it for over a week if nothing was wrong?


I'm not going to lie, I started laughing when I saw another Mac vs. PC thread. It's a never ending cycle. No side is going to win the debate. But I couldn't help but join in.... ;)

[cheewiee]

I think it's all just a matter of preference. I grew up using PCs. My grandpa taught me tons of stuff on them and I even started building my own to take to college. I wanted to go into graphic design. But I found out after talking to many designers that Macs were the way to go. I tried them out for myself when I job shadowed at a GD studio. I had used Adobe Creative Suite on PC before but I liked the feel of it better in a Mac. It all just went down to personal preference. I have nothing against PCs, I just like how the programs I need to use for graphic design operate in a Mac.

I have had some trouble with the AppleCare Service. When I said my DVD-R drive wasn't reading/burning properly, I wasn't kidding. I got it shipped back to me twice because they couldn't "duplicate the problem". So I'm dealing with that this summer when I don't need my laptop as much. That's really my only problem with Apple. I have a 3 year warranty on the danged thing so it should have been replaced with no questions asked. Why would I send in my laptop and let them have it for over a week if nothing was wrong?


I'm not going to lie, I started laughing when I saw another Mac vs. PC thread. It's a never ending cycle. No side is going to win the debate. But I couldn't help but join in.... ;)

If they are not able to duplicate your problem.. You may duplicate the problem yourself taking screenshots along the way to document your process and the errors and then send that in along with your laptop.

Applecare has one of the best reputations in the business, so It could be that they are not able to duplicate the problem to fix. This way by sending them the screen shots they can follow along with all the steps you are taking.

Does that make sense?

Oh yea and I agree.. that alot of it has to do with interface preference... and that OSX is for most people a more intuitive interface..

[bassgirl192]

If they are not able to duplicate your problem.. You may duplicate the problem yourself taking screenshots along the way to document your process and the errors and then send that in along with your laptop.

Applecare has one of the best reputations in the business, so It could be that they are not able to duplicate the problem to fix. This way by sending them the screen shots they can follow along with all the steps you are taking.

Does that make sense?

Oh yea and I agree.. that alot of it has to do with interface preference... and that OSX is for most people a more intuitive interface..

i can't really screen shot of my drive spitting a disk back out.... ;)

[cheewiee]

i can't really screen shot of my drive spitting a disk back out.... ;)
Perhaps the problem is a result of the discs you are using?

[Jason]

On the Macs are better for graphics argument, a lot of 3D work is done on PCs and a lot of the software, such as Bryce, is first designed for Windows and then Mac versions follow.

You probably have seen my artwork. It was all created on a Windows system.

[cheewiee]

On the Macs are better for graphics argument, a lot of 3D work is done on PCs and a lot of the software, such as Bryce, is first designed for Windows and then Mac versions follow.

You probably have seen my artwork. It was all created on a Windows system.

Alot of heavy 3D graphic houses use HP workstations. These are not the same thing you would see in a print shop or the art department of a magazine or a phone directory.

These are workstations that cost between 5-10 thousand dollars a piece. I know that Pixar uses them...

[bassgirl192]

Perhaps the problem is a result of the discs you are using?

nope. i've tried different brands of writable discs. and it sometimes won't read store bought ones. and i try them in my friend's mac and they work so i know it's not the laptop reading it wrong. trust me, every possibility you could think of, i've tried.

[Buttabean]

have you called Apple Care and explained the problem? That happened to me once where I had to send my old lappy back for the same thing twice (the screen was flickering in and out) and I called them and told them it was messing up again, and they made notes that I was having the same problem again and fixed it. Ship it out Tuesday morning, got it back Thursday morning. It was really awesome.