Muslims link Pope to 'racists and bigots' over Islam speech

[DareDevil]

Muslims link Pope to 'racists and bigots' over Islam speech


JOHN-PAUL FORD ROJAS


BRITISH Muslims joined today in fierce criticism of remarks made by Pope Benedict XVI about Islam.

The pontiff was accused of falling into "the trap of bigots and racists" with the comments he made on a visit to Germany.


Pakistan's parliament condemned the "derogatory" remarks today and demanded an apology.

(...)

The Pope's speech quoted from a book recounting a conversation between 14th century Byzantine Christian Emperor Manuel Paleologos II and an educated Persian on the truths of Christianity and Islam. "The emperor comes to speak about the issue of jihad, holy war," the Pope said. "He said, I quote, 'Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached'."

(...)

But Turkey's top Islamic cleric Ali Bardakoglu asked Benedict to apologise and made a string of accusations against Christianity, raising tensions ahead of a planned papal visit to the country in November.

He said he was deeply offended by the remarks and called them "extraordinarily worrying, saddening and unfortunate".

Militant Islamic websites also attacked the Pope, and the Muslim Council of Britain called on him to clarify his remarks urgently.

(...)

http://news.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=1366652006



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I'm not a Catholic, but I must say that I think that the pope has only said what most Christians already think. Still, I wonder whether it was wise from HIM to actually SAY that. Ah well, I suppose time will tell.

[Sam!]

Good for the Pope. I hope he doesn't apologize. Keep tiptoeing, and you give your enemies even more power. I don't see Christians killing tens of thousands of people in the name of holy war today. The Papa does not owe Islam anything.

[NotMyOwn]

Well if there are any bombings upcoming in Italy, we know who to blame.

[DareDevil]

Good for the Pope. I hope he doesn't apologize. Keep tiptoeing, and you give your enemies even more power. I don't see Christians killing tens of thousands of people in the name of holy war today. The Papa does not owe Islam anything.
I know what you mean. Still, I hope that the pope knew what he was doing there.

[kiwisongbird]

Nah, no Christians doing it now, but we still call meetings Evangelical Crusades!!!!! just to remind us that once upon a time we slaughtered truckloads of non-believers! :rolleyes:

[DareDevil]

That's why I dislike the term "crusade" in such contexts. Anyway, it is true that a lot of blood has been spilled in the name of God and Jesus and it is true that it is our duty to make sure that it won't happen again, but there is still a difference. I mean, maybe I am blind or so, but I cannot recall a single passage in the Bible where Jesus was either leading an army in an attack on a city or where he said that we should do just that.

[Ehud Elijah]

...I mean, maybe I am blind or so, but I cannot recall a single passage in the Bible where Jesus was either leading an army in an attack on a city or where he said that we should do just that.

Very true. This can hardly be said about Mohammad.

[Sam!]

Nah, no Christians doing it now, but we still call meetings Evangelical Crusades!!!!! just to remind us that once upon a time we slaughtered truckloads of non-believers! :rolleyes:
But we are fighting a war. Little girls have tea parties, not to remind us of The Boston Tea Party, but because that's what they are: tea parties. Crusades are just that: crusades against the ideas, thoughts and beliefs of the world.

I know Benny is in for some trouble, and he is a smart man and probably had some idea of what he is getting into. I hope he stands his ground and does not let any worldy group or power (and that is all that muslim clerics stand for) dictate how he should talk or the language he may use or what topics are appropriate. He does not need to be ashamed of the truth!

[NotMyOwn]

Nah, no Christians doing it now, but we still call meetings Evangelical Crusades!!!!! just to remind us that once upon a time we slaughtered truckloads of non-believers! :rolleyes:

Without getting into a debate, it wasn't evangelicals that slaughtered truckloads of un-believers, it was the church headed by the very same people who just insulted the Muslim world at the wrong time.

[kiwisongbird]

Without getting into a debate, it wasn't evangelicals that slaughtered truckloads of un-believers, it was the church headed by the very same people who just insulted the Muslim world at the wrong time.


Still not a great way of trying to 'reach' non-believers.. I certainly wouldn't go along to a 'crusade' if I was a Muslim ...

[Sam!]

The history of the Roman Catholic church prereformation is the history of the Evangelical church too.

Amazing how many protestants seem to forget about the Counter-Reformation. Most of what Luther preached against ended up being reformed. Admitting that of course means we have to stop bashing the Catholic church at every opportunity.

[kiwisongbird]

Do people still do that? I mean bash the Catholic Church... I don't, my in-laws are Catholic and I give them hugs usually! :) :)

[Pouye]

The history of the Roman Catholic church prereformation is the history of the Evangelical church too.


That is like saying the history of the Jewish worship system prereformation is the of the history of catholic church, too. Weren't the first Christians Jews?

This is also like saying that I, someone who strongly believes that slavery is wrong, am just as guilty of slavery because I am an American, and Americans used to own slaves.

The fact is, a group of people in history that called themselves Roman Catholics were no more Christians than the man on the moon. They did not follow the ways of Christ, nor did they worship God. Instead, they did terrible things that should have never been done in the name of God. They are not "my" history, since I am not a Roman Catholic. I am a Gentile who didn't even know about the Roman Catholic church when God found me and made me part of the Body of Christ. In the same way, I share nothing in common with slave owners in early America. I am not responsible for their actions and atrocities in history. I am an American, but I was born in a different time and under different laws. I can bash early Americans for how utterly evil they were to own slaves with not so much as a pang of guilt. I do not feel "collectively" responsible for the sins of my forefathers.

Rock

[Sam!]

Rock,

I didn't say you were guilty of anything. I didn't even say that Evangelicals were guilty of what the Catholic church did a few hundred years ago.

But it is a part of their history. You can't say "we are part of the church universal, dating back to Pentecost" but then simply start recording your history with the Reformation. Virginia's history dates back to being a pre-United States colony.

And the fact is that worship in Anglican, Roman Catholic and Eastern Orthodox churches does in fact trace its roots to ancient Jewish worship.

If the Church is the New Israel, and gentiles have been grafted in, etc.... then Israel's history with God is our history too.

[Sam!]

I also did not claim it was wrong to criticize certain people in the Roman church at the time of the Reformation.

What I did say was that the Roman church WAS the Western Church at the time. And, that most of Luther's problems with the Church had in fact been reformed hundreds of years ago. Luther's excommunication was his greatest personal crisis - he had no intention of leaving or renouncing his orders or any of that.

Therefore, it is irresponsible to attack the modern Roman Catholic church for problems it had 300-600 years ago.

[Sam!]

Weird, don't know why that came out as two posts. Strange.

[lilmikey]

You know that is the problem with the church(in general). They try to be politically correct. They dont want to offend anybody. Jesus didn't try to be politically correct. He told them like it was. Anyway Ill tell Muslims right to their face that their religion is false and that they are going to Hell if they dont accept Jesus Christ as their Savior. I dont care what they do to me.

I know this is not what the Pope was saying but I'd thought I'd throw this in.

[kiwisongbird]

That is so NOT the way to reach Muslims for the Lord... if you are seriously looking at evangalising Muslims I suggest you read some books by people who have done it success fully - if however you are planning to just go around offending people rather than loving them - carry on!

Yes, I agree there is the fact that the gospel IS offensive - I agree totally - and that there is room to be honest with people - but many (or most) Muslims are from cultures that are extremely hospitable and to just bowl on up and say what you have said would actually be very impolite and you would end up having no 'in' with them to speak into their lives.

Not sure, but I'm thinking that many people have this idea that all Muslims want to kill all of us - I truly don't believe that is true... most are merely ordinary people - it would be interesting to talk with some of these ordinary people and ask them what they think about all that is going on?

[lilmikey]

That is so NOT the way to reach Muslims for the Lord... if you are seriously looking at evangalising Muslims I suggest you read some books by people who have done it success fully - if however you are planning to just go around offending people rather than loving them - carry on!

Yes, I agree there is the fact that the gospel IS offensive - I agree totally - and that there is room to be honest with people - but many (or most) Muslims are from cultures that are extremely hospitable and to just bowl on up and say what you have said would actually be very impolite and you would end up having no 'in' with them to speak into their lives.

Not sure, but I'm thinking that many people have this idea that all Muslims want to kill all of us - I truly don't believe that is true... most are merely ordinary people - it would be interesting to talk with some of these ordinary people and ask them what they think about all that is going on?
I agree with you on the fact that we should love folks. And never purposly offend them. However my point is is that the church needs to stop being so politically correct in trying to make people comfortable all the time. Some churches dont even worship in a church building because they are afraid that it will make people uncomfortable pleeeeease evcuse me while I go barf. That is just one example. You know Im not getting on the music issue BUT bring some entertainment in the church and everybody flocks into our services. But as soon as you tell people that they need to change their lifestyle and crucify their flesh you wont see them next week.

I wonder how politically correct John was when he called them a generation of vipers. I wonder how politically correct Paul was when he got on the church for some of things they were doing. I wonder how p-correct Elijah was when he got on the prophets of Baal.

Do you see my point? I am not advocating that we go out and purposely offend them. But sometimes the church sugarcoats and watersdown its message just to reach people.

[kiwisongbird]

I understand what you mean about sugarcoating etc.. but the main time Jesus said full on mean stuff he was talking to the religious church people - brood of vipers was not PC, but John was talking to the religious leaders of the time, the men of God...

When Jesus was talking to non-believers He was usually firm, yet loving - meeting them where they were at - isn't that how we are supposed to do it??

PS: I stopped going to 'Seeker Services' at the church we went to in NZ - couldn't cope with all the Christians there and was sad and a bit ashamed that I had no unbelieving friends to bring along.....

Bless you lots :)

[Youthwker]

http://www.creationapologetics.o rg/editorials/islamsmohammed.html