9/11 conspiracy theory!?

[ausgirl]

I was reading my Sunday paper and came accross this article about 9/11 being all a big set up - WHAT THE?
So apparantly this is somewhat of a hot topic in the USA (or so the article indicates), I've not heard of this before.

To quote the article: five years after September 11, one third of Americans believe the US government was complicit in the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon.

The apparant evidence for this theory includes: The plane that struck the towers were in fact military cargo planes, etc no porthole windows could be seen as would normally be on passanger planes.

The twin towers were demolished by explosives

Flight 93 was shot down by a jet that had been painted white to diguise military markings

The article then went on to bust these myths including the fact that to demolish the towers by expl;osives would take 75 men 3 months to install enough explosives to acheive this - think someone may have noticed this activity?

So I guess my point in writing this thread is, do we have any of the one third here and if so, why?

Edit: Forgot to mention, the governments supposed reason behind this was to make us all hate moslems.

[tugboat]

This has mostly been a topic for the late night radio talk show nutcase crowd.

You can also hear theories on Bigfoot, UFO's, Vampires and Life on Pluto when you tune in. :rolleyes: :p :D

[HotWireD]

I was reading my Sunday paper and came accross this article about 9/11 being all a big set up - WHAT THE?
So apparantly this is somewhat of a hot topic in the USA (or so the article indicates), I've not heard of this before.

To quote the article:

The apparant evidence for this theory includes:


My thoughts...
five years after September 11, one third of Americans believe the US government was complicit in the attacks on the World Trade Centre and the Pentagon.
Many people WANT to believe there is a conspiracy - it is less frightening than having to accept that there are organised people out there who want to change the world by killing people. They also believe that Elvis is alive, that aliens are controlling the world government and that GWB is a lizard (all current conspiracies on the internet)!

The plane that struck the towers were in fact military cargo planes, etc no porthole windows could be seen as would normally be on passanger planes.
I watched the second aircraft strike the World Trade Centre it looked like a passenger plane to me.

People believe that a woman spontaneously combusted in the streets of New York years ago - even when the police report stated that some man ran up to her, poured petrol on her and set her alight (of course this was reported the next day - the conspiracy had already started).

The twin towers were demolished by explosives.
This is possible - the owner of the towers said this the day after the aircraft struck - the authorities could have wanted to minimise the damage and deaths, it could have been much worse if the towers had fallen in a none controlled manner. I am also sure that when tall buildings are designed, they are constructed so they will fall into their own footprint - this makes it easier to demolish them when they come to the end of their safe life. So a weakening of the structure could have made them fall that way (into themselves).

Flight 93 was shot down by a jet that had been painted white to diguise military markings.
It is possible that Flight 93 was shot down. This would be a case of damage limitation - the hijackers intended to crash it into a populated area, the passengers were going to die anyway, and shooting it down out in the country prevented the terrorists from killing even more people.

As to whether the 'theorised' fighter aircraft was 'painted out' - why bother - if they needed to shoot the plane down to save further lives, why need to have a specially painted aircraft to do it?

Edit: Forgot to mention, the governments supposed reason behind this was to make us all hate moslems.
All governments like to distract us from our internal problems - an external enemy fulfils this objective. However, the planes were flown by Saudi Arabian terrorists, they produced suicide videos which were posted on the internet by Al Quada after the fact. Osama bin Laden also claimed responsibility. If they had not crashed the aircraft into the towers it would have been to their advantage to expose the US government for killing its 'own' - THAT would have been a propaganda coup!

I think if the US government is guilty of anything here it is not informing the US public of the complete truth behind the attacks, but then again, they have the security of the US people to consider, and it may not have been sensible to tell them the whole truth. They have to keep some intelligence secret for security purposes.

Personally, I think governments lie to the people all the time, even when they do not have to but in this particular case I think Islamic terrorists did it.

Note: after the recent arrests of several people for planning to blow up planes with liquid explosives, many people did not believe that it was true and that it was a fabrication by the British government, even the press always appended 'alleges' conspiracy to any comments about the case. Ironically, the arrested persons had made suicide videos for showing once they had succeeded and these were found by the security services a few days later.

[HotWireD]

This has mostly been a topic for the late night radio talk show nutcase crowd.

You can also hear theories on Bigfoot, UFO's, Vampires and Life on Pluto when you tune in. :rolleyes: :p :D

But Bigfoot is real????????? :confused:

[tugboat]

But Bigfoot is real????????? :confused:


Oh yeah, I forgot............he's living in Vegas posing as Elvis's butler. :D

[HotWireD]

Oh yeah, I forgot............he's living in Vegas posing as Elvis's butler. :D
I thought he WAS Elvis' butler. :D

[lilmikey]

A lady at my church believes 911 was an inside job just as an excuse to activate homeland security. The more I pondered it the more I agree. I do think it was an inside job.

[Evanescence]

In 1993, a group of researchers and several politicians demanded the US Govt release any and all documents on UFO reports, activities or studies. 2 months or so later, they released 900+ pages of documents.....

90% of it was blacked out....

there is more evidence for UFOs and abductions than any other theory on the planet today...

When it comes to Govts...TRUST NO ONE!!!!!!!!!:D :mad: :mad:

[tugboat]

I thought he WAS Elvis' butler. :D

That's the heart of the conspiracy. G.W. Bush knew all along that Bigfoot was supposed to be Elvis's butler, but a set of secret recordings taken from a microphone hidden in an A/C vent at the White House uncovered the whole thing.

These recordings have since been dubbed " The Duct Tapes"!!! :eek:

[Evanescence]

I thought he WAS Elvis' butler. :D

Hey, where's the UFO in the background????? :D

[HotWireD]

A lady at my church believes 911 was an inside job just as an excuse to activate homeland security. The more I pondered it the more I agree. I do think it was an inside job.

I have to aknowledge that security has been 'upped' (and new laws suggested - to the detriment of our rights - in the UK and the US, from what I hear), but then again, if there really is a threat from Islamic terrorists, the security threat level would go up anyway.

I have worked in government for years and the threat level changes periodically, sometimes without an explanation, I assume that when they do not tell us why it is because they do not want to compromise any investigations that are currently active.

[HotWireD]

Hey, where's the UFO in the background????? :D

It is there, remember alien stealth technology is better than ours, they use Mark IV Stealth (TM), they only gave us Mark II Stealth (TM) for letting them have a base at Roswell.

[Howlin' Wolf]

A lady at my church believes 911 was an inside job just as an excuse to activate homeland security. The more I pondered it the more I agree. I do think it was an inside job.
how does the kool aid taste?

[kiwisongbird]

Quite right Tulip - I agree - Koolaid could very well be responsible for most of the ills of the American people...

I've tried that stuff!!!!! :D

[NotMyOwn]

Quite right Tulip - I agree - Koolaid could very well be responsible for most of the ills of the American people...

I've tried that stuff!!!!! :D

Mostly the orange Koolaid.:D

[kiwisongbird]

When I first tried it, I truly knew that Americans are a backward race... in New Zealand we have drinks like that but some have no colouring and natural flavouring and if they do have flavouring it doesn't stain the counter if you spill it!!!!!!

Um, I like grape but can't drink it - give me migraines!!

[Aussie3rddayfan]

If it could be proven that the 9//11 attacks WERE orchestrated by the US Government those who could prove it would conveniently disappear.

Saying that, the claims in themselves are ridiculous. Conspiracy theories pop up about any big issue like this. The moon landing was faked, who really killed JFK, the US government staged September 11. And so many conspiracy theories remain just that - theory. Unproven until the end of time.

[Mr.Elwood]

Well, it's a well known fact that there's a secret society of the five wealthiest people in the world, known as The Pentavirate, who run everything in the world, including the newspapers, and they meet tri-annually at a secret country mansion in Colorado, known as The Meadows.
the Pentavirate is: The Queen, The Vatican, The Gettys, The Rothschilds, *and* Colonel Sanders before he went belly up. Oh, I hated the Colonel with is wee *beady* eye! And that smug look on his face, "Oh, you're gonna buy my chicken! Ohhhhh!" er...um.... skip the last part..

but there is your answer..

[Aussie3rddayfan]

In 1993, a group of researchers and several politicians demanded the US Govt release any and all documents on UFO reports, activities or studies. 2 months or so later, they released 900+ pages of documents.....

90% of it was blacked out....

there is more evidence for UFOs and abductions than any other theory on the planet today...

When it comes to Govts...TRUST NO ONE!!!!!!!!!:D :mad: :mad:

Earth is also engaged in intergalatic warfare with an evil race known as the Goa'uld. They have infiltrated the government. Don't you watch Stargate!

I cite the following as proof:

http://www.windypundit.com/archives/2005/images/20051026-RiceAsGould.jpg

http://www.bakercountyonline.com/md-2389/Prom-1.jpg

[lilmikey]

how does the kool aid taste?
I like tropical punch hehe:D

[Evanescence]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Evanescence
In 1993, a group of researchers and several politicians demanded the US Govt release any and all documents on UFO reports, activities or studies. 2 months or so later, they released 900+ pages of documents.....

90% of it was blacked out....

there is more evidence for UFOs and abductions than any other theory on the planet today...

When it comes to Govts...TRUST NO ONE!!!!!!!!!


Earth is also engaged in intergalatic warfare with an evil race known as the Goa'uld. They have infiltrated the government. Don't you watch Stargate!

I cite the following as proof:

----------------------------
Thats a nice picture but I wasn't joking....:eek:

[Aussie3rddayfan]

Thats a nice picture but I wasn't joking....:eek:

Neither was I. :rolleyes:

[DareDevil]

In 1993, a group of researchers and several politicians demanded the US Govt release any and all documents on UFO reports, activities or studies. 2 months or so later, they released 900+ pages of documents.....

90% of it was blacked out....

there is more evidence for UFOs and abductions than any other theory on the planet today...

When it comes to Govts...TRUST NO ONE!!!!!!!!!:D :mad: :mad:
Personally, I think that most UFO sightings are probably just new top secret military planes on a test flight. Just think of the stealth bomber. I think it was introduced to the public sometime in the early 80s but one can be pretty sure that it had been tested thoroughly way before that date. Now, imagine you had no idea of the stealth bomber and suddenly you'd see it flying right over your garden. I'd say it is not too far fetched to assume that a lot of people in such a situation would mistake it for an alien spaceship. I am also sure that the government doesn't mind THAT kind of mistake because it helps to cloud the boarderline between truth and fiction and I would not be too surprised if the government should even actively try to blure that line even more.

I mean, test flights of experimental aircraft are necessary but each test flight bears the risk of such an aircraft to be seen, BUT if you can make such reports look untrustworthy by making them look like some insane fantasy story from a UFO idiot then that is not THAT much of a problem.

[danbos]

The main reason for this is....MICHAEL MOORE. That man is an idiot and has something against our president. The planes were not military cargo planes. There is footage of a flight attendant talking to the ground control people, saying, "We're too low, We're going to crash." Which means two things...1) It was a passenger plane because it had flight attendants. 2) It had windows since she could see out.

[Valpo]

The main reason for this is....MICHAEL MOORE. That man is an idiot and has something against our president. The planes were not military cargo planes. There is footage of a flight attendant talking to the ground control people, saying, "We're too low, We're going to crash." Which means two things...1) It was a passenger plane because it had flight attendants. 2) It had windows since she could see out.


truly a saint my friend

[Evanescence]

The main reason for this is....MICHAEL MOORE. That man is an idiot and has something against our president. The planes were not military cargo planes. There is footage of a flight attendant talking to the ground control people, saying, "We're too low, We're going to crash." Which means two things...1) It was a passenger plane because it had flight attendants. 2) It had windows since she could see out.

Was this video footage? Who took it? I've never seen or heard of anything as that...

About or Pres, people are fed up with the lies, doubletalk and scripted press conferences. Further, there are truths amoung these theorists and people are disgusted with it. Fact is, our founding fathers started a revolution for FAR, FAR less than what we are delaing with today.

As for Michael Moore, he's merely a filmamker capitalizing on this trend against Bush. Even in his slightly biased film, there was truth. Truth that Bush supports refuse to admit.

Down with division in our country!!!!!!! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[danbos]

From Michael Moore there is a little bit of truth blown way out of proportion with a ton of his opinion. And with President Bush, he hasn't been perfect, but I'd take him a long way before Clinton(and that goes for his wife too). The footage was not video footage. It was a recording of the call that came in from a flight attendant to the ground control people. But you don't need video for the two points i mentioned.

[danbos]

Also Flight 93 was not shot down. We know this from the famous phone call, that said they ha been hijacked and were going to try to take the plane back. The one that the guy said "Let's Roll." at the end.

[Evanescence]

From Michael Moore there is a little bit of truth blown way out of proportion with a ton of his opinion. And with President Bush, he hasn't been perfect, but I'd take him a long way before Clinton(and that goes for his wife too). The footage was not video footage. It was a recording of the call that came in from a flight attendant to the ground control people. But you don't need video for the two points i mentioned.

Think about what you are saying.....

And this....


[QUOTE][Also Flight 93 was not shot down. We know this from the famous phone call, that said they ha been hijacked and were going to try to take the plane back. The one that the guy said "Let's Roll." at the end./QUOTE]

Thats ZERO proof of anything. Any dork in a studio can make that stuff up. If its Video footage thats one thing, but audio? No way.

You gotta come up with better evidence than that.....sheesh..:rolleye s:

[danbos]

Oh come on. And what evidence exactly do you have?

[Valpo]

Oh come on. And what evidence exactly do you have?

he has none hes a skeptical lib, come on E, certainly you arent this ridiculous, its kind of tiring when everything has to be a conspiracy, really

[Valpo]

and still no one addresses this simple point, what Nation when looking to rape the world in war to become richer destroys the symbol of its own economic power and hits its own military headquarters? COME ON!! PLUS this is a free country REGARDLESS of what constant skeptics say, the mere fact that there is even a discussion going on in this country about something as ridiculous as this is proof of how much freedom we have! If they really did this and wanted to cover it up they would squash any and all conversation regarding this, but the govt isnt even addressing this topic, because its ASININE, The Liberalist lawmakers arent even bringing this up, and say what you will but John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Harry Reid are VERY left, not too mention Howard Dean who wouldnt even suggest this, I dont even think Dennis Kucinich would! this discussion is irresponsible and embarassing...Tell the families who lost loved ones on the plane that slammed the Pentagon that it didnt happen and that the govt has them locked up, I mean do you know how many people would have to be kept quiet for this if it were by the govt! Certainly, someone would slip up. I can't believe I even have to make this post about September 11, 2001 being govt orchestrated! its mind boggling! Al-Jazeera has disdain for this country as Arab Friendly Tulip even pointed out! They arent in bed with Bush! They spit out these tapes constantly from these Islamo-Facists who are looking to hit us. I dont care how many professors with there PhD's are signing onto this investigation, ANYONE can get a PhD, get a life, and fire these morons, they have NO PLACE in classrooms filling young an impressionable minds. This isnt about my love for George W Bush this is about truth and this is about COMMON SENSE! To all of you who think America is some hate mognering sick psycho pathetic land of a police state, move elsewhere and see how bad it really is, enough is enough already if youre over 18 stop hiding behind that and get out, you and youre asinine comments and "investigations" for truth concerning 9/11 are embarassing to this nation and add fuel to the Hate America fire in this world. Shame on you, shame on you

[Evanescence]

Oh come on. And what evidence exactly do you have?

None either way....we as Americans have NO real proof as to who did it....or didn't do it. All we have is what the Govt tells us......thru the media, which is programmed fromt he Govt and the conspiracy theorists, which have speculation and theories.

[Mugirl04]

no proof what? what about the groups of extremist that says they did it

[Evanescence]

he has none hes a skeptical lib, come on E, certainly you arent this ridiculous, its kind of tiring when everything has to be a conspiracy, really

As long as you think along the lines of RIGHTS and LEFTS, this country will never change. There is no right or left...thats exactly what they want you to think. There's two parties. Both are guilty of insider trading, conflicts of interest and favortism. Our Fed govt is a magnet for the corrupt and 90% of the people in it are just that. There is no "Gods" party or "left Wing", the lines they draw meet in the middle. Power and money.

I'm no "Lib" or "con". I have a 10,000.00 reward for anyone who can bring up a post where I praised or endorsed any politician from the "left".....or endorsed any Dem/Lib/left thinking. In fact, I always use a disclaimer because if you critisize Bush or the Govt, you're LEFT. Thats NOT true. If you critisize a Dem, are you a Neo-con? Just because you critisize the govt doesn't make you a "left-wing Dem". This is the mentality the system thrives on....the evil of this Govt lives for.

and still no one addresses this simple point, what Nation when looking to rape the world in war to become richer destroys the symbol of its own economic power and hits its own military headquarters? COME ON!! PLUS this is a free country REGARDLESS of what constant skeptics say, the mere fact that there is even a discussion going on in this country about something as ridiculous as this is proof of how much freedom we have! If they really did this and wanted to cover it up they would squash any and all conversation regarding this, but the govt isnt even addressing this topic, because its ASININE, The Liberalist lawmakers arent even bringing this up, and say what you will but John Kerry, Nancy Pelosi, Barbara Boxer, Harry Reid are VERY left, not too mention Howard Dean who wouldnt even suggest this, I dont even think Dennis Kucinich would! this discussion is irresponsible and embarassing...Tell the families who lost loved ones on the plane that slammed the Pentagon that it didnt happen and that the govt has them locked up, I mean do you know how many people would have to be kept quiet for this if it were by the govt! Certainly, someone would slip up. I can't believe I even have to make this post about September 11, 2001 being govt orchestrated! its mind boggling!

Ok, first of all. For the 1000th time, I said I was NOT convinced that our Govt did this. I said there is always the possibilitity and given the corruption abroad and especially in the admin now, its a very real possibility. But, I'm not convinced and am not selling this conspiracy....or promoting it.

As for why they would destroy the very foundation of our economy and hit the Pentagon? Who really knows. If this sinister plot took place, there could be a variety of reasons we can't even comprehend why. There's stuff GOOD and BAD that goes on in out Govt and we're not privi to that info.

I know this though. Evil is clever and wicked. People can disappear and the wool can be pulled over peoples eyes. If someone wanted to pull off the stunt of the Millennium, it could very easily happen with power and money behind you.

Maybe the reason why it was successful is because it IS so unbeliveable. People become outraged and theorists are looked at as "nuts" because...."Our Govt would never do that.." OR "Our president would never allow that" OR "Thats crazy, who comes up with this stuff..." So it slips in and is never really challenged. No one will take it seriously, because its so unbelievable...when in reality, it IS belieavable. Its COMMON SENSE to think it is possible.

I like how people defend a president and vice presidents morals and yet they don't even know them. I'm NOT saying they did this or knew of it....but again, who do we REALLY know. Heck wives, husbands and family betray, abuse and murder, so why would we become so emotional when someone is skeptical of a Pres or VP WE DON'T REALLY KNOW.

Al-Jazeera has disdain for this country as Arab Friendly Tulip even pointed out! They arent in bed with Bush! They spit out these tapes constantly from these Islamo-Facists who are looking to hit us. I dont care how many professors with there PhD's are signing onto this investigation, ANYONE can get a PhD, get a life, and fire these morons, they have NO PLACE in classrooms filling young an impressionable minds. This isnt about my love for George W Bush this is about truth and this is about COMMON SENSE! To all of you who think America is some hate mognering sick psycho pathetic land of a police state, move elsewhere and see how bad it really is, enough is enough already if youre over 18 stop hiding behind that and get out, you and youre asinine comments and "investigations" for truth concerning 9/11 are embarassing to this nation and add fuel to the Hate America fire in this world. Shame on you, shame on you

yes anyone can get a PHD and people who have degrees and write books are to be suspect. These guys ahve a slew of books and Vids out....so thats to be suspect. Its all to be suspect...

You say its not about your love for Bush, yet you use "Lib" and "Left-wing" a lot. I think it is. But thats ok, its your perogative and your free to do it....its your right to do so. Just like its my right to say he and Cheney are liars with conflicts of interest and are guilty of war-profiteering....and possibly other atrocities that we are unaware of.

As for me leaving because I don't like our Govt. Thats a joke. Why should I leave? I'm not the one with the problem. THEY...the corrupt politicans need to go, not me. The war-profiteers, insider traders and underhanded CIA spies and freedom silencers need to go, not me. I'm voicing my opinion as a semi-free American and trying to change the way people think. The way TWO....TWO corrupt parties in a corrupt system and its workings.

You said about the freedoms we have and if they wanted to squash these theories, they would. NO, they wouldn't. Its reverse phychology. They know no one will believe it. People will say as I said above...."Thats crazy....there's no way..." People won't believe it because its too good to be true. They also allow this because it allows the division to increase. NO, and I repeat, NO, serious conservative, die-hard republican would entertain this theory. So, they blame the LEFT...just as you did, when in fact there's likely a lot of NON-political party minded folks...or alternative party thinkers, like myself who dislike and wont vote for either,....who WILL entertain this thought.

My statement remains. We have no PROOF either way...just what people have said.

Lastly, if you think we're not living in the end times, thats Ok for you, but most of us think we are...like myself. The bible warns of all sorts of decpetions in the end times....things that would "Boggle the mind." Thats why I'm open for this possiblity. Because truth and error can pass as one. The line between good and evil is often blurred by our agendas and prejudiced.

SHAME on me if I don't question my Govt. A Govt with insider traders, blatant conflicts of interest, scripted press conferences, double talk and other obvious forms of shady-ness. its my duty to do so and my constitutional duty and right to do so. That's how the founding fathers built this country and the constitution....with checks and balances so WE CAN challenge and even REMOVE the Govt if necessary. If it become corrupt. But, people are too busy lining themsleves with parties to think about change.

Thanks for your emotional post Valpo, but this is one open minded theorist who doesnt trust our Govt ONE BIT and is open to ALL posibilities. Let me know when you can show the samples of me promoting, endorsing or praising any democrat or liberal democratic way of thinking. I'll send the certified check out ASAP....:rolleyes:

[Evanescence]

Not to stir the pot anymore or to try and push this on anyone....but

There's a new book out, published by Presbyterian Publishing....a large Christian publisher

Christian Faith and the truth behind 9/11- By David Griffin

Review and description:


"Do American Christians want the United States to act like the New Rome, invading other countries to impose its imperial rule and its control of other peoples' resources? That is just what the U.S. is doing, increasingly so since 9/11, explains David Griffin. In this gripping summary of evidence for the truth behind 9/11 and the 9/11 Commission report, Griffin makes a compelling case that the imperial practices of the American government have become a destructive force in the world. And he clarifies the biblical and theological basis for Christians to challenge the resurgent American imperialism that often claims divine blessing on its destructive actions." - Richard A. Horsley, Distinguished Professor of Liberal Arts and the Study of Religion, University of Massachusetts, and author of Jesus and Empire: The Kingdom of God and the New World Disorder


Probing disturbing questions that beg for a response from the Christian community, distinguished scholar of religion and popular writer David Ray Griffin provides a hard-hitting analysis of the official accounts of the events of September 11, 2001. A tireless investigator, Griffin has sorted through enormous amounts of government and independent data and brought to the surface some very unsettling inconsistencies about what really happened. In this, his latest book, he analyzes the evidence on 9/11 and then explores a distinctively Christian perspective on these issues, taking seriously what we know about Jesus' life, death, and teachings. Drawing a parallel between the Roman Empire of antiquity and the American Empire of today, he applies Jesus' teachings to the current political administration, and he explores how Christian churches, as a community intending to be an incarnation of the divine, can and should respond.

David Ray Griffin is Professor Emeritus of Philosophy and Theology at Claremont School of Theology, Professor of Religion Emeritus at Claremont Graduate University, and Codirector of the Center for Process Studies. He is the author of numerous books, including the popular bestsellers The New Pearl Harbor: Disturbing Questions about the Bush Administration and 9/11 and The 9/11 Commission Report: Omissions and Distortions.

------------------------------

I'm currently researching this theory and exploring its possibilities. I must say that this isn't a small group of professors and Govt haters who got together to start a website and sell books. This is a large group of scientists, professors, theologians and researchers from around the WORLD who cliam the events of Sept 11, ....as we have been taught, defy the laws of physics and logic and that there is undenyable truth that something very sinister happened that day. Something that is beyond what we've been taught and that is beyond our comprehension.

For me...right now, I do not know what conclusion to come to. For me, its worth looking into...

[kiwisongbird]

Many American Christians all around the world seem (in MHO as one who knows many of them) to think that President Bush is this wonderful man who can do no wrong. It appears to me also that they veiw him as God's gift to the world for this time, the one who will rid the world of all sorts of evil.

It has always fascinated me that many quote scripture about God's appointed leader and about obeying and honouring the leader of the country, yet at the same time will speak bad things about previous leaders, were they not appointed by God as well? (I am seriously seeking a sensible answer for this one!!)

President Bush is only a man, I don't think I know anyone who knows him personally - I have friends who say he is not a Christian and I pull them up on that one, because they do not know him personally - that is between him and God - yet at the same time I would say to others, how do you know he is a Christian? Just because you use the name of God and go to church doesn't mean you are one.

I realise he has many decisions to make that are very difficult. As the President of the most powerful nation in the world he makes world changing decisions - ew, not a job I would enjoy - except on a day that I long for power - especially over my children! (joke!!)

I wonder about how much insider trading goes on - how do you prevent that? Men who are into money living in a capitalist country working in postitions that make it easy to make more??

Living where we live, my question is always this? If there is so much concern about freedom of all people, if there is so much concern about ousting the 'baddies' where is America when it comes to Burma? I've asked this often and no-one really seems to care... women there are raped by soldiers who are given a 'bounty' as it is considered good to water down the Shan race.... families there work hard to grow rice for their families but have to grown double as the soldiers take half... people (including children) are shot down by soldiers as they plant rice... I've made the comment that there is no oil in Burma so America is not interested and been shot down even by my best friends, told that I am gossiping and slandering - but I will still say it.

Yeah, that's my soapbox....

I have never seen E as an American hater - he just things a bit differently to other Christian Americans at times - good on ya mate!

Conspiracy theories? Ok, they're not always a good thing, in fact often are not - but does that mean there is no truth in them ever? Come on... don't always believe what the government tells you - bet you wouldn't if it was a liberal government in power??? Think about things - think outside your boxes. Being on these boards certainly makes me have to think outside my box.

Thanks again all of you for extending my world view - many times I have to rethink my opinions, sometimes they've even changed.

Blessings, :) :) :)

[TShafer]

Personally, I have a hard time believing the government was behind the 9/11 attacks. There are certainly a lot of nagging physical details that haven't been adequately explained which are perfect fodder for conspiracy theorists. Some of the inconsistencies in how the towers went down, the lack of debris at the crash sites, the lack of physical evidence (and some more, very interesting, additional evidence) at the Pentagon have me fairly convinced that a lot more went on than we know about, but I'm not ready to make the leap to saying the government did it. The issues with the Pentagon attack are the most troubling for me, and there are enough inconsistencies to make me wonder what really went down. What's more, I firmly believe that 9/11 allowed the government to grab way more power than it should have, at the cost of our liberties. Does that make me a conspiracy theorist?

Tom

[Evanescence]

Personally, I have a hard time believing the government was behind the 9/11 attacks. There are certainly a lot of nagging physical details that haven't been adequately explained which are perfect fodder for conspiracy theorists. Some of the inconsistencies in how the towers went down, the lack of debris at the crash sites, the lack of physical evidence (and some more, very interesting, additional evidence) at the Pentagon have me fairly convinced that a lot more went on than we know about, but I'm not ready to make the leap to saying the government did it. The issues with the Pentagon attack are the most troubling for me, and there are enough inconsistencies to make me wonder what really went down. What's more, I firmly believe that 9/11 allowed the government to grab way more power than it should have, at the cost of our liberties. Does that make me a conspiracy theorist?

Tom

No it means you are thinking outside of political party nonesense and are using your brain. It means you too are skeptical of our Govt.

Kiwi asked about insider trading. Very simple;

Big corporations court lawmakers and give them campaign contributions and perks. Its called lobbying. However, the trade off is often inside info IF they do as the corporation ask. Vote on YYY bill this way and we'll make you our darling...same with your friends. When important info is available, they leak it to their pals in our Govt, for the tradeoff. The politician buys the stock and the next day it hits the roof. Profits go into the politician.

I have been told that Congress recently passed legislation making them IMMUNE to any investigations on this stuff. Regardless, it happens in probably 95% of our state and federal government.

i think cash is also exchanged...tucked away carefully in off-shore accounts or some other underhanded way. The IRS may even be able to be manipulated so they can skirt the paperwork. There's always more than one way to skin a cat....:(

Yes, I too am troubled by some things about the Pentagon attack. Some conflicting reports there. Also there is some new reprts of 2 trillion dollars reported missing from the Pentagon Coffers, three days before 9/11, reported by Rumsfeld. Also 8 Billion dollars in gold from the world trade center has never been found.

If our Govt DID do it, its proabably best that it never come out. if it did and were admitted or proven, there would be an upheaval or revolution. It would be bad.

God will sort it all out someday, then we'll know exactly what happened....;)

[HotWireD]

In my humble opinion, the US Democrats are not 'far left', or even 'near left', they are 'right wing', just not as far right as the US Republicans. At least the US Republicans are honest about where they stand.

The US Democrats may call themselves 'left' wing, but that is just to make the general public think they are making a choice when they vote for them or the Republicans.

Tony Blair the British Prime Minister is also right wing, he took the left wing Labour party, rebranded it as a softer conservative party and called it New Labour. He destroyed the (socialist) Labour Party.

From what I know of politicians of all parties, once they are hidden from the limelight of the press, they socialise as one big "we are having a great party at the public's expense, let us just not them know". They vote themselves payrises and when they cannot 'balance the books' of the nation, they take our money as increased taxes. Yet, if I screwed up my own finances I cannot just go to my neighbours and ask for a few pennies from each one to make up the deficit.

[Evanescence]

In my humble opinion, the US Democrats are not 'far left', or even 'near left', they are 'right wing', just not as far right as the US Republicans. At least the US Republicans are honest about where they stand.

The US Democrats may call themselves 'left' wing, but that is just to make the general public think they are making a choice when they vote for them or the Republicans.

Tony Blair the British Prime Minister is also right wing, he took the left wing Labour party, rebranded it as a softer conservative party and called it New Labour. He destroyed the (socialist) Labour Party.

From what I know of politicians of all parties, once they are hidden from the limelight of the press, they socialise as one big "we are having a great party at the public's expense, let us just not them know". They vote themselves payrises and when they cannot 'balance the books' of the nation, they take our money as increased taxes. Yet, if I screwed up my own finances I cannot just go to my neighbours and ask for a few pennies from each one to make up the deficit.

Lines of evil are always blurry....

I agree with you on so many of these points....