Exchanging Ideas and Debating Current Events?

[Mr.Elwood]

Maybe it’s time we visit this issue of what debating really means and what the free exchange of ideas means in a Current Events forum on a Christian message board.

Before you dive in, why I don’t I post my “personal” thoughts first so you know where I stand and why I ignore certain posts and will responded to others.

[Mr.Elwood]

My Brothers and Sisters, why do you find it necessary to continually swallow the bait tossed out by secular humanists? Every thread seems to be corrupted by a fraudulent post by someone claiming to be a follower of Christ, but clearly lacking in true understanding of what Faith really is. You, who follow Christ, know that it is not you fight to change someone, but only make the introduction. To continue to debate as if you can change a persons heart places you at the right hand of the father and I KNOW you are not qualified to be in that seat.

My Brothers and Sisters, the best way to take away a debate or argument from someone who builds their case of humanism and feelings is to simply not respond. You will continually notice that cold had Biblical facts get conveniently ignored so that the “emotional heart strings” can be continually pluck by a selfish ego centric confused person.

As I have been through that walk; “I know I’m right so I need to convince everyone else no matter what they say” it as obvious as the sunrise to me what is going on here. I was forced to deal with my own pride and selfishness by the same method and I hope you will see it is the correct way. Stop the outside inferences and encouragement so the Holy Spirit can work on the heart and minds.

I just ask that my Brothers and Sisters to stop swallowing the bait and being pulled into the boat. Do not get distracted and do not let the bitterness and selfishness of others personal prejudices infest you knowledge of your God through disagreement and dissention. I see some of you growing frustrated and irritable by others “not getting obvious truths” and your posts reflect it clearly. Those people are not getting your points is simply because they don’t want to. They want to continue a debate so they gain power over you. The selfish satisfaction of your continue responses is clearly played out in the contempt and arrogance in each succeeding post in any debate. The argument (Hot Topic), having been long forgotten, is now a debate on emotions and flesh and not what the Lord has taught you.

All I can tell those that know me, and know in the past that I can get very involved in these topics, must realize that the reason for my absence has been just what I stated above. There is no point in trying to debate any topic, or freely exchange any personal interpretation on “current events” while we are subjected to the current crop of “Christians with a better world viewpoint”.

All I can ask from my Brothers and Sisters is to just stop and let the self absorbed find a more fulfilling place to get new fish to swallow the bait. When the drift net comes up empty and they move on to more fertile grounds, then maybe this forum will open up again to a wider audience and the debates won’t degenerate to 2 or 3 continual topics.

Love and Prayers,

[Mr.Elwood]

Now… how about some of you define your method(s) for exchanging ideas and debating with someone who does not see things your way..

I know some of you are gifted at expressing yourself politely and clearly, and maybe it will help some of us to get better if you share some insights.

Thanks..:D

[Healing Oil]

Perfectly stated Elwood! Who'da thunk it? :p Very well said and I hope people will heed(sp?) your advice!!! I know I already have. I actually said something along the lines of your post (not as eloquently though, of course) earlier in a thread because I completely agree with you.

If we let it go, stop replying and giving these threads attention then they will go away.

:)

[TShafer]

I'm not huge into debate and whatnot, but I'll poke my head in every once in a while. I'll not go into my situation right now, but suffice it to say I'm in a place where I'm trying to really crack down and figure out WHY I believe certain things; why I assume certain things to be true. One of the biggest things I've found in my search is that I personally (and, seemingly, many others) assume so much about Christianity specifically and life in general that just isn't true. Things that have been so heavily quoted and used that they've seemingly seeped into my (our?) collective mindsets. I suppose my main goal in any of my postings is to make somebody think. I can't convince anybody of anything...I'm a lousy debater. But I DO like to challenge assumptions, and hopefully I don't come across as TOO mean in the process... :)

Tom

[SmileyFreak1981]

Now… how about some of you define your method(s) for exchanging ideas and debating with someone who does not see things your way..
I generally ask questions of people because I'm trying to get a better picture of where they are coming from. I'm trying to see why someone feels the way they do about something...the basis behind it. It helps me understand the other side of it. Most of the time, though, by the time I get to one of these hot topic threads that I am interested in, there are several pages, and my questions have been asked, so I just lurk. :)

I don't know that I always express myself clearly when I do partake in these threads (which isn't too often), but I do try to be polite, which means putting my usual bluntness through my tact filter. :D I know that the written word is a different animal than the spoken, face to face kind, so I read and re-read all of my posts several times before posting, to make sure that I'm coming across the way I mean to. Most of the time I succeed, sometimes I don't. :)

But I do like it when those who disagree do so in a loving and respectful manner. I think that fosters more fruitful conversations on issues that the Christian community as a whole should be discussing, reguardless of where individual members fall on those issues.

[cheewiee]

I honestly like to exchange Ideas... I like to get other peoples points of view and see how they fit with mine...

I have had times where my mind about something has changed, othertimes my view has only been reenforced...

It's a neat way to expose flaws in my beliefs, so that I may change them, or reenforce them...

[Jesuslove]

I honestly like to exchange Ideas... I like to get other peoples points of view and see how they fit with mine...

I have had times where my mind about something has changed, othertimes my view has only been reenforced...

It's a neat way to expose flaws in my beliefs, so that I may change them, or reenforce them...
While we tend to disagree on many things, I totally agree with what you said here. I think it's important to grow and learn as a person. The exchanges here, while not always healthy, can help everyone learn. Even on topics we can't discuss anymore, I think all of us have learned something.

[Mugirl04]

I honestly like to exchange Ideas... I like to get other peoples points of view and see how they fit with mine...

I have had times where my mind about something has changed, othertimes my view has only been reenforced...

It's a neat way to expose flaws in my beliefs, so that I may change them, or reenforce them...
agree! i like to debate and i am not easily offended

[Drummer Dude Go]

While we tend to disagree on many things, I totally agree with what you said here. I think it's important to grow and learn as a person. The exchanges here, while not always healthy, can help everyone learn. Even on topics we can't discuss anymore, I think all of us have learned something.
I dont debate on theese boards very often, but I do read what people post, and sometimes my views change, and sometimes they stay the same, but I grow stronger in my convictions and beliefs. Debating is healthy and good for your brain, as long as it doesnt turn into something really ugly.

[DareDevil]

The most important thing is to take a look at what has already been said. Unfortunately I must say that I am more and more thinking that "listening" is a forgotten art. The reason for that is that there are loads of people who simply ignore certain arguments as if they've never been said before. Well okay, I agree with Mr. Elrod when he says that some of "Those people are not getting your points [...] simply because they don’t want to." but there have been numerous incidents where I really wonder whether this kind of behaviour was/is intentional or not.

[Yippy]

The most important thing is to take a look at what has already been said. Unfortunately I must say that I am more and more thinking that "listening" is a forgotten art.
You are so right.

[jwil59]

I lurked for some time here before posting anything. After reading and posting on a few boards, I think the discussions here are very civil. I have seen a couple concessions and even some apoligies. It does seem that some folks have been buttin heads for some time and that probably won't end. When I don't think someone is warming up to my thoughts and ideas, I offer up and "let's agree to disagree" and let it go.

By the way, I never offically introduced myself (didn't see a newbie thread) so I want to say I have enjoyed my time here so far and have learned much. Rather we agree or disagree on current events or politics, please know I am praying for you every day.

[ObiShawn]

I lurked for some time here before posting anything. After reading and posting on a few boards, I think the discussions here are very civil.

For the most part, I agree with this. I have seen times (and been guilty myself) when things have gotten personal or even sarcastic, which in itself is a condesending way of telling some one they are an idiot.

I think one of the biggest problems we face on this board is the fact that it is the internet and not a face to face deal. Words, even when carefully typed out, don't always carry the full intent and understanding of what the poster was really trying to get across.

I know that with myself, I tend to be very straight forward and that doesn't always come across in a friendly fashion (and it doesn't help when I use sarcasm). But I have enjoyed many of the debates that we've had here and in the Word forum, in both, like Cheewie, I've learned some things and solidified other things I've already beleived.

In my opinion, this board very rarely gets out of hand. Of course, I'm not looking at this from the perspective of a mod either. Then again, it wasn't a mod that started this topic.

[TheBus36(Retired)]

Now… how about some of you define your method(s) for exchanging ideas and debating with someone who does not see things your way..

I know some of you are gifted at expressing yourself politely and clearly, and maybe it will help some of us to get better if you share some insights.

Thanks..:D

Why do you have to be so adult sometimes?????????:eek:

You're absolutely right. I have fallen into this trap (As Diane and Debbie will be the first ones out of their respective chairs to second that);) It's easy to let your pride and own thoughts override what should be in your heart. It's a maturing process for me. I'm still working on it.

[prayercloth sis]

Post with love and respect! Regardless...and be yourself.
Just my thoughts...

God Bless

Rhonie

[jrmitch]

Okay - I've been locked in a classroom all day in training for a new job, and my brain is mush. So this may be a long-winded rant, but y'all just please bear with me and try to hear my heart, allright? Having been another one whom *ahem* has made his opinions known from time to time...........:D I agree with Rob in that we should not use our faith or these forums as a means to shove personal or doctrinal beliefs down anyone's throat, and as I've been guilty of such in the past I join several of the rest of you in trying hard to behave myself. :)

However.....though this is a Christian message board it is still a free board subject to a wide cross section of people. I feel those of us within the church sometimes lose sight of the fact that those 'secular humanists', as Rob referred to them, are doing nothing more than just being themselves. And in the process of doing so we become so focused upon our scriptural beliefs and thelogy that we forget that the world (and even part of the church) doesn't view things our way, and we lose the ability to extend grace to those who not only differ with us, but also feel compelled to attempt to persuade us to think as they do......in the exact same way that we sometimes force non-believers to attempt to think just as we do.

Well, just as Jesus as didn't avoid those who disagreed with him, and just as Paul willingly spent hours in the Temple debating issues of his day with those who were willing to engage him - and I guarantee you that not all that did so agreed with him - we should be willing to do likewise. In fact, we're scripturally commanded to do so. I don't think the matter is so much in the debate itself as it is in how we go about that debate, and that's where I join some of you in shooting myself in the foot. See, emotional kind of guy that I tend to be, once I feel as though my viewpoint has been challenged I often stop trying to understand why those who differ with me feel as they do, and my focus shifts to defending my viewpoint. While that's human nature, it's also flat wrong, so what I've attempted to do recently has been to refrain from posting a response to someone until I've made sure I'm not operating from a purely emotional standpoint.

For what it's worth, here's my basic code of conduct:

1. Know why I feel as I do. Whether it be doctrinal or current events issues, I try to always be sure my beliefs are well grounded, and that I've reached a firm decision in my mind regarding why I feel as I do. This makes me better equipped to explain my logic/rationale).
2. Understand that there are often many different sides to a debate, and those who don't share my views have every bit as much right to be as convinced in their beliefs as I am in mine (no matter how right or wrong their viewpoint may be).
3. Be willing to elaborate as necessary in sharing my heart regarding the issue at hand while extending that same courtesy to those who disagree. There are a couple of you who've already responded to this thread that have gone eyeball to eyeball with me on some issues, and we've been able to just agree to disagree and move on to more productive dialogue. And I thank you for your tolerance in allowing me to share my views while I have appreciated your efforts in attempting to share yours. ;)
4. Put careful thought into anything I post on the boards. Part of the problem I see is that some of us just shoot from the hip, and as a couple of you have already noted don't take the time to read a longer post where the author has taken pains to be precise in what they say. I don't mind taking a few extra minutes to broaden out what I have to say if it helps the one willing to read it gain better insight into my heart on whatever the issue is;
5. Make a concious effort to understand why those who share a different view than mine do so. I often find that in doing so I become more aware of holes in my own beliefs and am driven to give more thought into why I really feel as I do.
6. And finally, be open to correction. Again, there are a few of you who have gently (or not so gently, as circumstances warranted :D ) corrected me when I've wandered down the wrong path. again, I thank you.......

......and my brain just flat quit on me. Hope this made sense; I'll try to post something more coherent once I find what's left of what was once a very find mind........:rolleyes:

[Yippy]

I appreciate what you've said jrmitch. I would like to add that - and this has been mentioned on the boards many times over the years - it's good to remember that not everyone here is at the same level of maturity spiritually or emotionally. Just because one person has "arrived" does not mean that another has. We need to be patient with one another. We have some very meaningful dialogue here that's peppered with personal insults and disputes that only litter the discussion. That's too bad, but it just means that I will have to labor to read over some posts to get to the good stuff. The mods do their best to keep a thread litter free, but it's not easy.

Sometimes we get caught up in "answering a fool according to his folly" and, well, you know where that gets us. If we ignored those posts there wouldn't be so many rants in a thread. Like Rhonie said, post with love and respect. We need to be respectful. Just because someone else isn't, doesn't mean we need to respond in kind. Romans 14 & 15 have a lot to say about this (might as well toss in Romans 12 & 13, too:) ).

[mercyGurl]

I took a Critical Thinking class this past semester, and I have to say that one of the biggest things I learned was the "LUNA principle" as my teacher called it. "Listen for understanding, not agreement".

If you really internalize that idea, it'll change the way you debate...honestly.

[Psalm25]

I agree with Sarah, and I also first listen to the Lord prior to posting. Because I have a short fuse.....and low tolerance for......ok......I best not say it here.:eek: :D


However, I am willing to put up a fight against anyone who bashes my Tarheels! There is no one....NO ONE....none of you heathens (as Rob would call you) who can convince me that the Tarheels aren't the best in the world.;) :p :D


(I'm a good sport though.):D

Now...having said that,

Back to our regularly scheduled thread.

[prayercloth sis]

I appreciate what you've said jrmitch. I would like to add that - and this has been mentioned on the boards many times over the years - it's good to remember that not everyone here is at the same level of maturity spiritually or emotionally. Just because one person has "arrived" does not mean that another has. We need to be patient with one another. We have some very meaningful dialogue here that's peppered with personal insults and disputes that only litter the discussion. That's too bad, but it just means that I will have to labor to read over some posts to get to the good stuff. The mods do their best to keep a thread litter free, but it's not easy.

Sometimes we get caught up in "answering a fool according to his folly" and, well, you know where that gets us. If we ignored those posts there wouldn't be so many rants in a thread. Like Rhonie said, post with love and respect. We need to be respectful. Just because someone else isn't, doesn't mean we need to respond in kind. Romans 14 & 15 have a lot to say about this (might as well toss in Romans 12 & 13, too:) ).


Excellent point that we all should remember...and also love covers a multitude of sins...with love it is not in vain.

God Bless

Rhonie

[kiwisongbird]

Great Thread...

Being one of the emotional people who often (too often) operates on feelings and (sad to say) often shoots from the hip - I am reading this thread and endeavouring to learn from it.

It's been a great place here for me to understand Christian American culture more because of how many of you post and talk about your deepest feelings.

It has also helped me to even understand myself better when I really have to think through some issues... I have to say that I have even changes my views on some things! :eek:

I know I will always be a heart person, not a head person, that is how God has wired me - but I truly appreciate talking with you all.

Blessings,
Sharon :)

[kiwisongbird]

Oops.......... it should read........ talk about your deepest feelings and beliefs (sorry) :D

[musicjaytee]

As someone who is overwhelmingly short (short legs, short hair, short foresight, short temper), all I have to say is.......ouch. But it's a good ouch. Thanks for the reality check.
Sincerely
Reeled in fish
PS - I'm sure you can make some money selling the extra hooks that were still stuck when I got yanked ashore. ;)