Secular Music

[mikedevilsfan]

I am interested in the opinions on secular music from the group here. IMO secular music is extremely dangerous. I come to this conclusion partly from my testimony (it was metal that made me backslide as a kid) and partly from being in ministry and talking to literally hundreds of kids who were addicted and blinded by it. I think music is a spiritual thing and when someone who isn’t saved creates it they are open for influence.

Do I think all secular music is evil, no. I don’t consider music that has no lyrics harmful, and there are occasional songs that come out that could be examined in the light of scripture to not be misleading (although I can’t think of one at the moment), but who wants to spend all their time using a fine tooth comb on music. I like to listen to music and not have to think about whether someone is saying something offensive to Christ.

I think music is a gift. ( as a musician myself) I consider it a privilege not a right and if you can’t find what your looking for in the spectrum of Twila Paris to Horde then you are not looking or do not want to look.

I also scrutinize Christian bands that I listen to as well. Most recently I began boycotting POD because of their confusing imagery and watered down rasta influenced “jah” religion that is confusing to young people who hope that being positive is enough to get by. I was flipping through the channels one night a while back and heard POD during a documentary and thought yea, this must be about Christian music and got exicted. It turned out the show (VH1) was about swingers and POD lent their music via the corporate demon to this. I mentioned this on their message board and had hundreds of people defending them saying they had no control. POD fans will forgive pretty much anything they do, regardless of how unbiblical it is. This is because they are addicted to the music.

Also as a side note, I grew up in the days of thrash metal and this was a major influence on me. The first concert I saw in 86’ at 14 was Slayer. All my friends were immersed in this. I saw my best friend die in 88’ right in front of me at a King Diamond concert amidst people with painted faces saying “screw him he’s dead, lets get on with the show.” Fortunately just a couple of weeks before his death he had a visitation from the Lord and I think he accepted him. I have three other friends, however, who were also immersed in that kind of music Danny 16, Chris 30, and Tony 27 all dead an in hell right now.
Secular music is nothing to play with believe me.
Michael

[Howlin' Wolf]

LETS GO BURN ALL OUR SECULAR MUSIC CD'S!!!!!

WOO HOOO!!!!!!

dont teach me about moderation,just give me a shot of grape juice

[bdfwinn]

I was flipping through the channels one night a while back and heard POD during a documentary and thought yea, this must be about Christian music and got exicted. It turned out the show (VH1) was about swingers and POD lent their music via the corporate demon to this. I mentioned this on their message board and had hundreds of people defending them saying they had no control. POD fans will forgive pretty much anything they do, regardless of how unbiblical it is. This is because they are addicted to the music.
Michael

Can you elaborate more on this? Are you saying VH1 had a show about swingers and they played POD's music in the background?
Bill

[Drummer Dude Go]

You are absolutely correct!! I am sort of a Christian rapper in my school and community, and I write alll my own songs. I try to write songs about my Savior Jesus Christ, and how only He can save us from eternal death in Hell. I try to not write songs about what the world likes to hear, like secular rappers often do. All the secular rappers, and rockers, that I have heard (I dont really listen to any secular music, exept country, but I am around friends who play secular music, mostly rap and rock.) always talk about nothing except thier image and how they are so cool, drugs, money, cars, and sex. In all of thier songs about "Love," they try to convince young people that sex outside of marriage is what true love is all about, yet they say nothing of the severe consequences of AIDS, pregnancy, or the emotional pain that comes with having sex before your married (The emotional part is olnly what I've heard, I dont know from experience, or anyithing.) I personally plan to stay a virgin untill I am married. However, as a teenage guy trying to live a Godly life in an un-Godly world, I must admit that I often struggle with lustfull thoughts myself, and I can see why sex before marriage is so tempting for many people. Anyway, back to the main subject, I think that secular music, for the most part, is demoralizing and dangerous to society. So many people listen to it, and the secular artists have a great influence in the lives of thier audiences. Why do we see so many young people doing drugs? Because secular music says drugs are OK, and that they wont harm you, and that they will make you rich and happy. Often you hear of secular artists getting arrested or going to jail, because they were caught dealing drugs, or assaulting people because they were high or drunk. People follow thier examples of drinking beer and getting high, and they too will either go to jail (if theyre lucky) or die from a drug overdose. Most secular music may appear innocent, but it is mostly straight from the minds of Satan and his deamons, who enter the minds of theese secular artists, and tell them to write lies in thier song lyrics, so Satan can use thier songs as a means of destroying people's lives. Am I saying that listening to all secular music is wrong? NO! I am saying that the MAJORITY of it is very dangerous, and should not be listened to, because it can mess with your mind, and cause you to do things that you may regret later. It may even cause you to think youre worthless, and killl yourself, as I have heard reports of that happening to many people who listen to secular music, they consider themselves worthless.
But if they just listen to Christian music, they would see that God loves them, and He has a plan for thier lives that doesnt involve drugs, fights, going to prison, or getting shot at. Anyway, If you would like to view my songs, please go to the website address below. Please enjoy looking at my lyrics, but keep in mind that I have written all theese songs myself, so please dont use my lyrics without E-mailing me and getting my permission. If you want to use them in your church, just copy and paste all the lyrics you want! Thanks!
GO 24/48!! WAR EAGLE!! God Bless You All!!:cool:

[Howlin' Wolf]

always talk about nothing except thier image and how they are so cool, drugs, money, cars, and sex. In all of thier songs about "Love," they try to convince young people that sex outside of marriage is what true love is all about

the white stripes sing about none of this stuff
as a matter of fact, Jack White is a devout roman catholic. so he and his music must be possessed

[mikedevilsfan]

LETS GO BURN ALL OUR SECULAR MUSIC CD'S!!!!!

WOO HOOO!!!!!!

dont teach me about moderation,just give me a shot of grape juice

Moderation for evil, interesting concept. Just a little porn never hurt no one.
And it's funny you should mention trashing secular CD's because shortly after I rededicated my life in 1993 I wasted all my secualr music and that night I recieved the Baptism of the Holy Spirit Acts style.
Michael
So yeah get rid of it all and make a serious commitment to Christ.

[mikedevilsfan]

Can you elaborate more on this? Are you saying VH1 had a show about swingers and they played POD's music in the background?
Bill
Yeah, there was a show about couples who swing on VH1, I don't remember what it was called. All I saw when I flipped on the channel were two people walking (a couple) and I heard Boom I think it was and was like whoa this must be about faith or something. It was soon reveald that the couple were swingers and sure enough the show was about that "lifestyle."
Michael

[mikedevilsfan]

the white stripes sing about none of this stuff
as a matter of fact, Jack White is a devout roman catholic. so he and his music must be possessed
Well I am not going to speculate about whether or not 'Jack' is saved or not. But it is curious that you would slam the idea of being saved by works when it comes to your intelectual descussions, but when it comes to your music you tip your hat at it. This should tell you something.
Michael

[mikedevilsfan]

Personally, I'm not sure how to define "secular" music. In the pop culture sense, I assume you mean anyone who's not on a Christian label.

I don't see any harm in "neutral" music. So long as somone actually has something to sing about, not "sex, drugs 'n rock and roll," I don't have a problem with it. When it comes to metal and all that stuff though, I get downright scared.

Check out both versions of Hells Bells on the reality of "neutral" music by Reel to Reel ministries. (always demons hanging around when we show that film.
I would define secular music as anything that is worldly or doesn't glorify God in some way (realizing this is a bit of a liberal definition). Ever get a song stuck in your head?
Michael

[bdfwinn]

Yeah, there was a show about couples who swing on VH1, I don't remember what it was called. All I saw when I flipped on the channel were two people walking (a couple) and I heard Boom I think it was and was like whoa this must be about faith or something. It was soon reveald that the couple were swingers and sure enough the show was about that "lifestyle."
Michael


I have followed POD since Snuff the Punk. I have seen them on Howard Stern. I know they were on WARP tour. At Oz Fest they played behind Marylyn Manson. After Mary Man got up and said God hates you, POD got up and sang about His love all mankind....AWESOME!

They play in bars and venues where most Christians will not go and I salute them for it. If in the process some of their music gets sold for unclean purposes then I guess it can't be helped. But what if POD knew. What if POD said, "Hey maybe someone watching that show hears our song and buys the CD and is blessed by the positive Godly message."

When you preface an argument by saying POD fans will defend them no matter what you don't leave much room for an honest discussion.

I've seen too much about POD to doubt that their motives are pure and they are more like Jesus than a lot of Christian bands because they are truly a friend of sinners.

On the topic of secular music. I do not listen to bands. I listen to songs. I went to a private Christian University and my Music Ap. teacher said secular music was bad. Even just the innocuous love songs because of all the immorality and evil the bands were into. Yet at the same time we were assigned to go to the Tyler Symphony and hear Mozart. He was a coke head and died of syphilis. He cheated on His wife and mocked God. But his music was ok. I raised my hand and asked about Mozart's "testimony" and the prof. was clueless on how to answer without contradicting himself.

I believe in value neutral music. If it ain't bad... it's okay by me.

Bill

By the way we must be close to the the same age because I'm sure I saw Slayer too at the Monsters of Rock tour in the summer of 88 in Atlanta, Georgia. (I was 18)
.

[Howlin' Wolf]

one would first have to think music was evil for it to be a moderation of evil. to equate secular music to porn is alli need to know about you. i pity you. it must suck to think that christ, who died for you and chose you unconditionally, would then dismiss you from grace because ofyour sinfulness. because in reality, all sin is disgusting to God. and you will never stop sinning.

all secular music isnt 2 live crew. quit being a fool

[Drummer Dude Go]

the white stripes sing about none of this stuff
as a matter of fact, Jack White is a devout roman catholic. so he and his music must be possessed
Am I saying that listening to ALL secular music is wrong? NO! I am saying that the MAJORITY of it is very dangerous, and should not be listened to, because it can mess with your mind, and cause you to do things that you may regret later.
No offense Tulip 5points, but you may want to carefully read ALL of what someone has to say before you state your opinion! I was NOT saying that ALL secular music was evil and should not be listened to, I myself listen to Country music, and that is secular. I was only saying that MOST of the Non-Christian music that's out there is not good to listen to, as it does not adhere to the Bible or Christian beliefs and values. Am I saying that you should go burn all your non-Christian cds and only listen to Christian music? NO! I am just saying that you should think about the lyrics and what theyre really trying to say to you, then decide whether, as a Bible-believing Christian, you should fill your mind with thoose lyrics. The Bible says to fill your "Temple," that would mean your mind, with things that are pleasing to God, and this does include music. Am I saying we should only listen to worship music? NO! I am just saying we should look at the lyrics of all our music and see if they are Godly or not!! Thanks for allowing me to share my personal opinion, and I hope you better understand my position on this issue of secular music! GO 24/48!! WAR EAGLE!! God Bless You All!!:cool:

[coldcupofjoe]

Becuase it's so totally the rating that makes a movie good or bad right?

[Drummer Dude Go]

Becuase it's so totally the rating that makes a movie good or bad right?
Its whats in the movie that makes it right or wrong to watch it, not what its rated!:cool:

[Mugirl04]

my rule about music is if they sound like they are going to kill some one, turn it off

[Howlin' Wolf]

No offense Tulip 5points, but you may want to carefully read ALL of what someone has to say before you state your opinion! I was NOT saying that ALL secular music was evil and should not be listened to, I myself listen to Country music, and that is secular. I was only saying that MOST of the Non-Christian music that's out there is not good to listen to, as it does not adhere to the Bible or Christian beliefs and values. Am I saying that you should go burn all your non-Christian cds and only listen to Christian music? NO! I am just saying that you should think about the lyrics and what theyre really trying to say to you, then decide whether, as a Bible-believing Christian, you should fill your mind with thoose lyrics. The Bible says to fill your "Temple," that would mean your mind, with things that are pleasing to God, and this does include music. Am I saying we should only listen to worship music? NO! I am just saying we should look at the lyrics of all our music and see if they are Godly or not!! Thanks for allowing me to share my personal opinion, and I hope you better understand my position on this issue of secular music! GO 24/48!! WAR EAGLE!! God Bless You All!!:cool:

i read all your post. i stated my opinion.

[coldcupofjoe]

my rule about music is if they sound like they are going to kill some one, turn it off


Elaborate please? Do you mean lyrics or the actual singing?

[Mugirl04]

Elaborate please? Do you mean lyrics or the actual singing?
The singing but I do listen to the lyrics to make sure I am getting wholesome music

[Howlin' Wolf]

lets sing "Yes, Lord!" 50 times in 5 minutes. that'll be fun

tulip, still a hymn snob

[DareDevil]

(...)
Also as a side note, I grew up in the days of thrash metal and this was a major influence on me. The first concert I saw in 86’ at 14 was Slayer. All my friends were immersed in this. I saw my best friend die in 88’ right in front of me at a King Diamond concert amidst people with painted faces saying “screw him he’s dead, lets get on with the show.” Fortunately just a couple of weeks before his death he had a visitation from the Lord and I think he accepted him. I have three other friends, however, who were also immersed in that kind of music Danny 16, Chris 30, and Tony 27 all dead an in hell right now.
Secular music is nothing to play with believe me.
Michael
I know King Diamond's attitude towards satanism and the occult, I know his music and I can truly say that I've never ever encountered an artist that gives me the creeps like he does. I'm probably not the most sensitive person in this respect and most evil bands just bore me out of my mind but King Diamond's music gets under my skin and I can literally feel the evil in his music.

That's also why I threw away the few King Diamond stuff I ever had. I felt oppressed by it when I had it and I felt free after I had thrown it away. Those people who know my general attitude towards secular heavy metal will probably be able to understand how much this whole thing must have affected me.

Still, I don't agree with your general attitude towards secular music, but maybe the holy spirit things that YOU need christian music to fill the hole that must have been there after you had turned away from King Diamond and the likes? If this should be the case then the holy spirit must think that it serves a very important purpose for you and you should definetly listen to what God has to tell you there. :)

[mikedevilsfan]

I have followed POD since Snuff the Punk. I have seen them on Howard Stern. I know they were on WARP tour. At Oz Fest they played behind Marylyn Manson. After Mary Man got up and said God hates you, POD got up and sang about His love all mankind....AWESOME!

They play in bars and venues where most Christians will not go and I salute them for it. If in the process some of their music gets sold for unclean purposes then I guess it can't be helped. But what if POD knew. What if POD said, "Hey maybe someone watching that show hears our song and buys the CD and is blessed by the positive Godly message."

When you preface an argument by saying POD fans will defend them no matter what you don't leave much room for an honest discussion.

I've seen too much about POD to doubt that their motives are pure and they are more like Jesus than a lot of Christian bands because they are truly a friend of sinners.

On the topic of secular music. I do not listen to bands. I listen to songs. I went to a private Christian University and my Music Ap. teacher said secular music was bad. Even just the innocuous love songs because of all the immorality and evil the bands were into. Yet at the same time we were assigned to go to the Tyler Symphony and hear Mozart. He was a coke head and died of syphilis. He cheated on His wife and mocked God. But his music was ok. I raised my hand and asked about Mozart's "testimony" and the prof. was clueless on how to answer without contradicting himself.

I believe in value neutral music. If it ain't bad... it's okay by me.

Bill

By the way we must be close to the the same age because I'm sure I saw Slayer too at the Monsters of Rock tour in the summer of 88 in Atlanta, Georgia. (I was 18)
.

I'll be 34 in May.
POD used to be sold out for God, for sure. Now they are sold out to positivity and you know as well as I do that there are many false positive messages out there. They hide from their Christianity now. Do a search and you'll see what I mean. They don't like the label of being Christian. It's as if they are ashamed of Jesus. Sort of reminds me of what happend to stryper. I have faith that in the end it will work out, but that isn't what I am talking about.
The stakes are high. What you tell 14 year olds is important. If you tell them that you can drink beer, be positive then they will buy it. They will buy it right into the pits of hell. POD has a duty to stand up for what they believe in and if they are ashamed now, he wil be ashamed later.
In the end the descussion we will have at the judement seat won't be about what we listned to in our homes, it will be about what we professed openly on the internet about whether it's Ok, or not OK. I have seen too much reality to take this lightly.
Michael

[mikedevilsfan]

I know King Diamond's attitude towards satanism and the occult, I know his music and I can truly say that I've never ever encountered an artist that gives me the creeps like he does. I'm probably not the most sensitive person in this respect and most evil bands just bore me out of my mind but King Diamond's music gets under my skin and I can literally feel the evil in his music.

That's also why I threw away the few King Diamond stuff I ever had. I felt oppressed by it when I had it and I felt free after I had thrown it away. Those people who know my general attitude towards secular heavy metal will probably be able to understand how much this whole thing must have affected me.

Still, I don't agree with your general attitude towards secular music, but maybe the holy spirit things that YOU need christian music to fill the hole that must have been there after you had turned away from King Diamond and the likes? If this should be the case then the holy spirit must think that it serves a very important purpose for you and you should definetly listen to what God has to tell you there. :)

Well in all honesty KD apparently said "say a prayer for that guy whatever religion, he didn't deserve that" while we were at the police station. Is his satanism a gimmic? Who cares. It doens't matter.
Anytime a non believer participates in music they are open vessels.
As far as this being a special rule for me, I have heard that a million times. It's scary how many times I seem to hear the same arguments- here is the short list-
1. It must just be a stmubling block for you.
2. I listen for the music not the words.
3. They don't sing about the Devil so they are not evil.
4. You just don't understand what they are trying to say.
5. Only the weak minded are effected by it....etc.

But one thing all had in common was that the thought of giving it up horrified them because they were in chains.
Michael

[middletree]

To Mike, and others who said you disapprove of music which doesn't glorify God: How do you define "glorify?" Once statements like yours are examined, they begin to contradict themselves. If a "Christian singer" includes a romantic song to his wife, you won't object. But if a "secular" singer (that is, one who isn't on a "Christian" label)sings a love song to his spouse, then it is, to use Mike's definition, dangerous. Doesn't make sense. If I write a love poem to my wife, or make up a tune and sing it when we're alone, am I glorifying God? Of course I am.

The fact is, so-called secular singers are people with gifts that God has given them. Not "spiritual" gifts, such as those given to believers. Just gifts and talents that God gives to humans, and if they choose that gift to sing about life, then they are glorifying God. There's no difference between Jack White singing about the dangers of infideilty and the Bible giving us the same message via the story of David & Bathsheba.

I am convinced that unless the message in a song is blatantly anti-God, then it is probably glorifying God simply by the virtue of being a use of a God-given talent. Like Tulip said, I pity those who shut such talented people's works out of their lives.

[middletree]

That's real funny. I can see this is a serious subject to you. Like I said I have thre beer drinking friends in hell, and I would love to se you say this to me in person.
Michael
Beer doesn't put anyone in hell. The way out of hell is by accepting Jesus and choosing to follow Him. We can start another thread about this if you like. And by the way, I don't drink. But I wouldn't dare say drinking alcohol is sin, because the bible never says so (not to mention I'd be calling jesus a sinner).

[TheBus36(Retired)]

That's real funny. I can see this is a serious subject to you. Like I said I have thre beer drinking friends in hell, and I would love to se you say this to me in person.
Michael

I just love your threads. 34 or not, I think you are pretty full of yourself and one of the most self-righteous individuals I have ever come across. You think your opinions and beliefs are the only ones that are right and if they don't agree with you, then they are rightwing, pinko, beer drinking, going to hell christians. Have you ever read those sections here and there about Judgement, more specifically judging others? I won't be responding to anymore of your threads, I probably shouldn't have responded to this one, but I have just had enough. In any event, Have a wonderful Easter Brother.





HE IS RISEN!



**By the way, that's what really counts**

[mikedevilsfan]

To Mike, and others who said you disapprove of music which doesn't glorify God: How do you define "glorify?" Once statements like yours are examined, they begin to contradict themselves. If a "Christian singer" includes a romantic song to his wife, you won't object. But if a "secular" singer (that is, one who isn't on a "Christian" label)sings a love song to his spouse, then it is, to use Mike's definition, dangerous. Doesn't make sense. If I write a love poem to my wife, or make up a tune and sing it when we're alone, am I glorifying God? Of course I am.

The fact is, so-called secular singers are people with gifts that God has given them. Not "spiritual" gifts, such as those given to believers. Just gifts and talents that God gives to humans, and if they choose that gift to sing about life, then they are glorifying God. There's no difference between Jack White singing about the dangers of infideilty and the Bible giving us the same message via the story of David & Bathsheba.

I am convinced that unless the message in a song is blatantly anti-God, then it is probably glorifying God simply by the virtue of being a use of a God-given talent. Like Tulip said, I pity those who shut such talented people's works out of their lives.

How do I define glorify- I guess anything that is Biblical would count. THere is nothing wrong with singin about romance and the like. But when was the last time you heard an innocent romance song on the radio? Bill you want to answer this one since we are the same age? I mean the Carpenters wouldn't fly these days. It's not about love anymore it's about sex and degredation.
Michael

[mikedevilsfan]

Beer doesn't put anyone in hell. The way out of hell is by accepting Jesus and choosing to follow Him. We can start another thread about this if you like. And by the way, I don't drink. But I wouldn't dare say drinking alcohol is sin, because the bible never says so (not to mention I'd be calling jesus a sinner).

He knows what he was saying.
Michael

[TheBus36(Retired)]

To Mike, and others who said you disapprove of music which doesn't glorify God: How do you define "glorify?" Once statements like yours are examined, they begin to contradict themselves. If a "Christian singer" includes a romantic song to his wife, you won't object. But if a "secular" singer (that is, one who isn't on a "Christian" label)sings a love song to his spouse, then it is, to use Mike's definition, dangerous. Doesn't make sense. If I write a love poem to my wife, or make up a tune and sing it when we're alone, am I glorifying God? Of course I am.

The fact is, so-called secular singers are people with gifts that God has given them. Not "spiritual" gifts, such as those given to believers. Just gifts and talents that God gives to humans, and if they choose that gift to sing about life, then they are glorifying God. There's no difference between Jack White singing about the dangers of infideilty and the Bible giving us the same message via the story of David & Bathsheba.

I am convinced that unless the message in a song is blatantly anti-God, then it is probably glorifying God simply by the virtue of being a use of a God-given talent. Like Tulip said, I pity those who shut such talented people's works out of their lives.

Oh, Good Grief! Thank you, well put!!!!




**Okay, sorry, that was the last post**

[HotWireD]

To Mike, and others who said you disapprove of music which doesn't glorify God: How do you define "glorify?" Once statements like yours are examined, they begin to contradict themselves. If a "Christian singer" includes a romantic song to his wife, you won't object. But if a "secular" singer (that is, one who isn't on a "Christian" label)sings a love song to his spouse, then it is, to use Mike's definition, dangerous. Doesn't make sense. If I write a love poem to my wife, or make up a tune and sing it when we're alone, am I glorifying God? Of course I am.

The fact is, so-called secular singers are people with gifts that God has given them. Not "spiritual" gifts, such as those given to believers. Just gifts and talents that God gives to humans, and if they choose that gift to sing about life, then they are glorifying God. There's no difference between Jack White singing about the dangers of infideilty and the Bible giving us the same message via the story of David & Bathsheba.

I am convinced that unless the message in a song is blatantly anti-God, then it is probably glorifying God simply by the virtue of being a use of a God-given talent. Like Tulip said, I pity those who shut such talented people's works out of their lives.


I like this entry, particularly the final paragraph, which I agree with totally. I have been inspired by many songs that have not actually mentioned G_D in the lyrics, it is clear that the artist has had a G_D given talent.


Like Tulip said, I pity those who shut such talented people's works out of their lives.

Totally agree, in my opinion this bit needed repeated.

[DareDevil]

(...)

But one thing all had in common was that the thought of giving it up horrified them because they were in chains.
Michael
Personally I can only say that I don't feel the need for me to justify my musical preferences to anybody. Okay, sometimes I say my share and talk about my own views but that's not the same. This is probably also why I don't expect others to justify their views which does also go for you. You've made the choice to listen to the holy spirit and you live up to it which makes you a strong person imho and that's is nothing for which you have to justify yourself. People should just accept that.

This doesn't necessarily mean that ALL of those who disagree with you are weak/in chains though, but chance is that those who try to convince you that YOU are weak are the ones who really have a problem.

[mikedevilsfan]

Personally I can only say that I don't feel the need for me to justify my musical preferences to anybody. Okay, sometimes I say my share and talk about my own views but that's not the same. This is probably also why I don't expect others to justify their views which does also go for you. You've made the choice to listen to the holy spirit and you live up to it which makes you a strong person imho and that's is nothing for which you have to justify yourself. People should just accept that.

This doesn't necessarily mean that ALL of those who disagree with you are weak/in chains though, but chance is that those who try to convince you that YOU are weak are the ones who really have a problem.

I am talking from a ministry point of view.
Sometime in your life, someone a kid will come up to you and ask you if they can listen to ______ and still be a Christian. Think hard about the answer you give them, that's all I am saying.
Michael

[DareDevil]

Well in all honesty KD apparently said "say a prayer for that guy whatever religion, he didn't deserve that" while we were at the police station. Is his satanism a gimmic? Who cares. It doens't matter.

(...)

Well, he is a satanist but this does not necessarily mean that he is free of all feelings and emotions. Satanism isn't THAT simple. So yeah, it could very well be that he was genuinly sorry for your friend and maybe he even said a private "prayer" for him.

Be that as it may, I still think that he is the creepiest guy I've ever encountered in the music scene.

[DareDevil]

I am talking from a ministry point of view.
Sometime in your life, someone a kid will come up to you and ask you if they can listen to ______ and still be a Christian. Think hard about the answer you give them, that's all I am saying.
Michael
I agree with you there and in fact it has happened to me before. Usually I try to explain my own thoughts about a band (assuming that I know it of course) but I also try to warn them that this does not liberate them of the duty to decide for themselves. *I* can't and in fact I must not do that for them which is also why I tend to suggest for them to think and pray about it for themselves.

[mikedevilsfan]

Well, he is a satanist but this does not necessarily mean that he is free of all feelings and emotions. Satanism isn't THAT simple. So yeah, it could very well be that he was genuinly sorry for your friend and maybe he even said a private "prayer" for him.

Be that as it may, I still think that he is the creepiest guy I've ever encountered in the music scene.

Well I can tell you this my friend there were demons in that place before the concert, no doubt about it. My friend (the one that died) walked up to me and said "someone is going to die tonight" and it was him about 20 minutes later.
I remember that as he was laying on the song "to live is to die" was playing on the house speakers. There were people all over the place with inverted crosses and the like. I was so screwed up spiritually I didn't even think to pray or to talk to him while he was lying there. Not that I knew he was going to die. He got kicked in the chest and there wasn't even a bruise the coroner said.
It makes you think though. He called me up about two weeks before he died and was asking me if I had ever felt like God was talking to me and I didn't speak up. I was enchained in the music and the lifestyle.
Michael
Michael

[bdfwinn]

I am talking from a ministry point of view.
Sometime in your life, someone a kid will come up to you and ask you if they can listen to ______ and still be a Christian. Think hard about the answer you give them, that's all I am saying.
Michael


I think you should always tell the truth. I was a professional youth worker with Youth for Christ USA and I met with hundreds of teens through the course of any given week. I got so many phone calls from Pastors and Youth Pastors because of discussions I had with some of the teens. They'd ask if tattoos were a sin. We'd talk it over and look at scripture and one Pastor called my Executive Director and tried to have me fired because I said no it is not a sin to get a tattoo. They asked about every thing under the sun. Is alcohol a sin. I'd say no and show them with scripture. One kid came to me and said he wanted to get his ear pierced and his parents told him no. His question to me was Is it a sin to get my ear pierced. I said, "Look, I don't think Jesus cares if a person gets their ear pierced, but He does care whether or not you obey your parents, so until you are grown and on your own guess what? no earring."

I never told kids moderate drinking was a sin because that would be a lie. I always told the truth and do so still.

I don't tell my congregation that God wants them to all be rich and healthy and that their health and wealth status is somehow an indication of their spiritual condition.
I don't tell my congregation that they have to keep the Sabbath.

I don't tell them they must only listen to Christian music because there is value neutral music. If the lyrics are not sinful then go for it.

By the way I was eating supper when the beer thing came up, how ironic because along with my fries and buffalo bleu sandwich I had a VERY cold Coors Light. I'm a silver bullet man myself.

Bill

[DareDevil]

Well I can tell you this my friend there were demons in that place before the concert, no doubt about it. My friend (the one that died) walked up to me and said "someone is going to die tonight" and it was him about 20 minutes later.
I remember that as he was laying on the song "to live is to die" was playing on the house speakers. There were people all over the place with inverted crosses and the like. I was so screwed up spiritually I didn't even think to pray or to talk to him while he was lying there. Not that I knew he was going to die. He got kicked in the chest and there wasn't even a bruise the coroner said.
It makes you think though. He called me up about two weeks before he died and was asking me if I had ever felt like God was talking to me and I didn't speak up. I was enchained in the music and the lifestyle.
Michael
Michael
Well, you had said that you think that he had already accepted Christ. The fact that he did still go to that concert doesn't negate the possibility as the famous inner change can take longer than some people seem to think. *I* did not immediately throw away my King Diamond or Gwar stuff either for instance. THAT took a while.

This is also part of the reason for why I think that you should not accuse yourself. I mean, I am not saying that you are doing this but I see the possibilty that you might be doing that. Just think about the fact that becoming a Christian does (usually?) not mean that one becomes perfect in every aspect. God knows that even a Christian will still struggle at times but he is more than willing to forgive us... time and time and time and time again. :)

[bholdj]

I also scrutinize Christian bands that I listen to as well. Most recently I began boycotting POD because of their confusing imagery and watered down rasta influenced “jah” religion that is confusing to young people who hope that being positive is enough to get by. I was flipping through the channels one night a while back and heard POD during a documentary and thought yea, this must be about Christian music and got exicted. It turned out the show (VH1) was about swingers and POD lent their music via the corporate demon to this. I mentioned this on their message board and had hundreds of people defending them saying they had no control. POD fans will forgive pretty much anything they do, regardless of how unbiblical it is. This is because they are addicted to the music.


Dear lord so this is why you made that silly comment about secular music in the other thread. You think P.O.D is evil. I used to roam those boards for years, individuals such as yourself would always roam the boards telling evreybody how bad they are for listening to such a "confusing" band. I left the boards for that reason. I support P.O.D because God himself has backed those guys to the core, you don't roam the streets of Ozz Fest and pray with dudes smoking dope and not be Christian. The P.O.D guys have hearts of gold.

i think im going to go listen to "The Messenjah" now.

[mikedevilsfan]

I think you should always tell the truth. I was a professional youth worker with Youth for Christ USA and I met with hundreds of teens through the course of any given week. I got so many phone calls from Pastors and Youth Pastors because of discussions I had with some of the teens. They'd ask if tattoos were a sin. We'd talk it over and look at scripture and one Pastor called my Executive Director and tried to have me fired because I said no it is not a sin to get a tattoo. They asked about every thing under the sun. Is alcohol a sin. I'd say no and show them with scripture. One kid came to me and said he wanted to get his ear pierced and his parents told him no. His question to me was Is it a sin to get my ear pierced. I said, "Look, I don't think Jesus cares if a person gets their ear pierced, but He does care whether or not you obey your parents, so until you are grown and on your own guess what? no earring."

I never told kids moderate drinking was a sin because that would be a lie. I always told the truth and do so still.

I don't tell my congregation that God wants them to all be rich and healthy and that their health and wealth status is somehow an indication of their spiritual condition.
I don't tell my congregation that they have to keep the Sabbath.

I don't tell them they must only listen to Christian music because there is value neutral music. If the lyrics are not sinful then go for it.

By the way I was eating supper when the beer thing came up, how ironic because along with my fries and buffalo bleu sandwich I had a VERY cold Coors Light. I'm a silver bullet man myself.

Bill

This isn't a discussion about legalism Bill. I agree with everything you have said above.
Music is a different animal, just like mind altering substances is a different animal. Is it ever ok to get high? Not according the biblical connection of divination and that state. Do I care that you had a Beer with dinner, no.
Would I care if a 14 year old who was being pressured to drink and party and didn't know if it was OK was in your house and you cracked open a beer- I would. Different subject entirely. This isn't a should we eat meat sacrificed to pagan gods thing.
I am speaking of young people who are at the cross roads.
If a kid asked me about tattoos and earrings I would certainly tell them that being a Christian is not about what you look like. If they asked me about beer, I would bet my left, er eyeball, that they weren’t thinking about having one with their bar B Q. I wouldn't tell them that people who drink beer that is yellow are wussies and that all good beer is as dark as root beer. I would say avoid it, and be filled with the Spirit. I am no legalist believe me.
Michael

[bdfwinn]

Thi I agree with everything you have said above.
Michael

Okay cool. I just wanted to be clear on that. Still we tell kids about sex and that the proper place for it is in marriage. I think most Christian kids don't get the credit they deserve in knowing what pleases or displeases God. Sometimes we let them get away with pretending to be ignorant or we want teens to like us so much we avoid the confrontation.

I have confiscated many a cd and dvd in my day at lock-ins and Youth Rallies etc. A couple of times I told them that their parents would have to ask for it back. (I only confiscated from saved kids the ones who know better) One kid was even crazy enough to tell his dad I took his stuff. When I met the dad to take my butt chewing and give back the cd I asked if he'd like to hear some of it. When he heard these vulgar lyrics he apologized to me, thanked me for clueing him in and said his boy was going to need some medical attention real soon.


I'm glad we agree. I misunderstood what you were saying before. I'm sorry.

Hey by the way can you post that part I quoted to all of our political discussions he he just kidding friend. :)

Bill

[mikedevilsfan]

Okay cool. I just wanted to be clear on that. Still we tell kids about sex and that the proper place for it is in marriage. I think most Christian kids don't get the credit they deserve in knowing what pleases or displeases God. Sometimes we let them get away with pretending to be ignorant or we want teens to like us so much we avoid the confrontation.

I have confiscated many a cd and dvd in my day at lock-ins and Youth Rallies etc. A couple of times I told them that their parents would have to ask for it back. (I only confiscated from saved kids the ones who know better) One kid was even crazy enough to tell his dad I took his stuff. When I met the dad to take my butt chewing and give back the cd I asked if he'd like to hear some of it. When he heard these vulgar lyrics he apologized to me, thanked me for clueing him in and said his boy was going to need some medical attention real soon.


I'm glad we agree. I misunderstood what you were saying before. I'm sorry.

Hey by the way can you post that part I quoted to all of our political discussions he he just kidding friend. :)

Bill

Thats funny about the medical attention. My son from my first marriage is 10 and heis going through this what's wrong with slipknot thing. His mom listens to Godsmack in the house so pray for him will you.Talk about being in a cage and feeling helpless.
Music is addicitve, I have seen it over and over. You just haven't lived until you have had a Christian teen tell you that you "just don't understand what Maryln Manson is trying to say." Have you sen the Hells Bells videos? Everytime I have shown it to someone the spiritual attacks begin. I knew one guy who watched it and he went home and saw shadow figures in his room.
But I digress, there is a reason why it's addictive.
Michael

[DareDevil]

(...)

You just haven't lived until you have had a Christian teen tell you that you "just don't understand what Maryln Manson is trying to say."

(...)
Michael
Personally I would ask for a thorough explanation there. I would probably still disagree with such an explanation, but that wouldn't be the point in it. It would get such a kid to think about his own decisions and choices in this respect though and THAT is what is important. I mean, we enjoy the famous "Christian freedom" but freedom does always demand a certain level of self responsibility. We will still make mistakes there of course but they are covered by his grace. :)

[bdfwinn]

Thats funny about the medical attention. My son from my first marriage is 10 and heis going through this what's wrong with slipknot thing. His mom listens to Godsmack in the house so pray for him will you.Talk about being in a cage and feeling helpless.
Music is addicitve, I have seen it over and over. You just haven't lived until you have had a Christian teen tell you that you "just don't understand what Maryln Manson is trying to say." Have you sen the Hells Bells videos? Everytime I have shown it to someone the spiritual attacks begin. I knew one guy who watched it and he went home and saw shadow figures in his room.
But I digress, there is a reason why it's addictive.
Michael

Have you ever seen this outfit- True Lies Ministries. I think you'd like them. They argue that Christians should not use the resources God has given them to support the likes of ICP, Pink, Limpbizkit, 50 cent, etc... We hired them at YFC USA to come to Fayetteville NC and do their presentation in public schools. It was powerful. One thing I like is I-tunes. If the seculars try to hook me with one innocuous tune so I'll by the whole album then....aaaaaannnnnt... I just get the one song I like-- for a buck. May they all either go broke at .99 per album or make clean music. That's my take. Anyway I will pray for your boy.

Bill

[mikedevilsfan]

Have you ever seen this outfit- True Lies Ministries. I think you'd like them. They argue that Christians should not use the resources God has given them to support the likes of ICP, Pink, Limpbizkit, 50 cent, etc... We hired them at YFC USA to come to Fayetteville NC and do their presentation in public schools. It was powerful. One thing I like is I-tunes. If the seculars try to hook me with one innocuous tune so I'll by the whole album then....aaaaaannnnnt... I just get the one song I like-- for a buck. May they all either go broke at .99 per album or make clean music. That's my take. Anyway I will pray for your boy.

Bill

Thanks Bill.
you could pay for it or stop believing in private property (just kidding).
Are you in NC?
I am in TN
Michael

[bdfwinn]

I'm in Mechanicsville Virginia but I have a close Pastor-friend that Pastors in Murfreesboro TN
Bill

[mikedevilsfan]

I'm in Mechanicsville Virginia but I have a close Pastor-friend that Pastors in Murfreesboro TN
Bill
What A coincidence, I have a good friend in Virginia and live in Murfresboro.
Which Church?
Michael

[bdfwinn]

What A coincidence, I have a good friend in Virginia and live in Murfresboro.
Which Church?
Michael

His name is Jonathan Stepp and he pastors New Hope Fellowship
The Hope Center
714 W Main Street
Murfreesboro, TN 37133
Bill

[kiwisongbird]

Secular music.... we tell our son (13) that there is so much awesome Christian music out there that he doesn't really have to listen to the secular stuff - although not sure what I'd do if he wanted to get into Christian (is it??) death metal?? You know that stuff that sounds like demons trying to get out of hell and 'get' ya?? :) :)

I sing 'secular' music and as I rehearse the peices if they are love songs... I pray that God will anoint my singing and that people will feel the emptiness and somehow know that only God can fill that space... I pray that Jesus would shine out from me and that any warm fuzzies that the audience (mainly expats) would get would be from the Holy Spirit...

I've had feedback that when I sing I have an 'aura' about me, that I glow, that I make the audience feel like they are very very special - praise God!!!

I guess that's different cos it's singing to unbelievers, but I totally believe that God gives the gift of musician and that even songs without Biblical themes or God themes can be beneficial to people. :) :)

[kiwisongbird]

See PM Mike :)

[mikedevilsfan]

See PM Mike :)
You have exceeded your PM space.
michael

[seeker]

Man it is amazing how ruthless we can all get when we believe we're right. Friction is good, it keeps us from being comfortable, but come on giving out names and addresses? Try to keep it civil, if we are to be an example to the world, how would that look?

IMO- about the whole POD not liking the term "christian" it could be taken one of two ways. Either they arn't christian and don't want that label (which is hard to believe given their testimonies, music etc. Or they don't like the label "christian" because it has A LOT of negative connation with that like christians judge others, think they are better than everyone else, only like other christians and things like that. Christianity has A LOT of negative connation with it and we are all to blame for that. Can you really blame them for not saying they didn't like the term "christian"? Did they say that they didn't love Jesus? no. Again, just my opinion.

[kiwisongbird]

:) - I do that sometimes :)

Hang on a minute :)

[kiwisongbird]

Man it is amazing how ruthless we can all get when we believe we're right. Friction is good, it keeps us from being comfortable, but come on giving out names and addresses? Try to keep it civil, if we are to be an example to the world, how would that look?

IMO- about the whole POD not liking the term "christian" it could be taken one of two ways. Either they arn't christian and don't want that label (which is hard to believe given their testimonies, music etc. Or they don't like the label "christian" because it has A LOT of negative connation with that like christians judge others, think they are better than everyone else, only like other christians and things like that. Christianity has A LOT of negative connation with it and we are all to blame for that. Can you really blame them for not saying they didn't like the term "christian"? Did they say that they didn't love Jesus? no. Again, just my opinion.

We prefer calling ourselves Believers or Followers of Jesus or other things.... Christian holds many negative meanings - as far back as the Crusades (don't believe that some Christian still hold Crusades!!) - we have friends here who have a friend - the first thing he asked them was "You guys aren't missionaries are you?" He didn't want to be their friend if they were cos he'd had so many bad experiences with missionaries... so we also call ourselves volunteer workers - and manage to have non-Christian ex-pat friends!! :)

[TeleGirl72]

I don't really categorize music but I am careful about what I listen to. I go by song not by artist or genre. Music itself is not to blame. It's people that have corrupted it at times.
-Sam

[mikedevilsfan]

Man it is amazing how ruthless we can all get when we believe we're right. Friction is good, it keeps us from being comfortable, but come on giving out names and addresses? Try to keep it civil, if we are to be an example to the world, how would that look?

IMO- about the whole POD not liking the term "christian" it could be taken one of two ways. Either they arn't christian and don't want that label (which is hard to believe given their testimonies, music etc. Or they don't like the label "christian" because it has A LOT of negative connation with that like christians judge others, think they are better than everyone else, only like other christians and things like that. Christianity has A LOT of negative connation with it and we are all to blame for that. Can you really blame them for not saying they didn't like the term "christian"? Did they say that they didn't love Jesus? no. Again, just my opinion.
Thsis site is really a bunch of nut jobs, so ignore all the legalistic tatoo stuff, but the quotes are real. POD has sold out and I don't know why. Maybe because they are at a place where they got big and being positive and letting their music be played on documentaries about swingers was 100 times more lucrative than speaking about Jesus like they used to do.
They used to be upfront about Jesus and now they are just trying to be positive.
again ingore the commentary on the site and just read the quotes-
http://www.av1611.org/crock/pod.html
Michael

[bholdj]

They used to be upfront about Jesus and now they are just trying to be positive.
again ingore the commentary on the site and just read the quotes-
http://www.av1611.org/crock/pod.html
Michael


Lol the above site has as much credibility as I do on math, and its not real good.

Type in the same site, and see if thirdday is listed. You will be surprised :D

[bholdj]

Thsis site is really a bunch of nut jobs, so ignore all the legalistic tatoo stuff, but the quotes are real. POD has sold out and I don't know why. Maybe because they are at a place where they got big and being positive and letting their music be played on documentaries about swingers was 100 times more lucrative than speaking about Jesus like they used to do.
They used to be upfront about Jesus and now they are just trying to be positive.
again ingore the commentary on the site and just read the quotes-
http://www.av1611.org/crock/pod.html
Michael

I read this site about 5 years ago. Goggle Terry Watkins, and see how many bands he rips apart. Thirdday is one of them.

[mikedevilsfan]

I read this site about 5 years ago. Goggle Terry Watkins, and see how many bands he rips apart. Thirdday is one of them.

I hope it doesn't suprise you that these people are Calvinist.
Michael

[bholdj]

I hope it doesn't suprise you that these people are Calvinist.
Michael

the KKK in the 60's were christian, didn't make them right did it?

[Squid]

Please allow me to thank God for the millions in this world who have been blessed by someone who isn't a Christian. Praise God for people who give to charities, who drink beer, and who smoke. They aren't all Christians, though some are, but they are all contributing to society as we know it. And without them, people like Mike would have no one to compare themselves to and feel so justified in bringing their message against "secular" music.

Just remember, to everyone else out there, Christianity is secular. Would you prefer them to judge "christian" music as evil?

True, not all music is God glorifying. But doesn't the bible say that all things work together for the good of those that love Christ and are called for His pourpose. All things includes everything, things we can understand and those we can't. God is outside of our box. He can work through satanists or atheists or whatever and whomever He wants.

I'm quite happy listening to any music. My reason isn't so much for the music itself, but I want to understand what makes others tick. How can we be effective at seeking and saving the lost if we are too busy sitting in our churches reading the bible and not getting out into the real world. My friends, the battle is outside of the church. Sinners don't need judgement, that will come at the right time. Sinners need love and acceptance.

Lets not get legalistic. Instead, lets walk a mile in the other person's shoes. Many have been hurt by the church (or more realistically, people from the church). Lets heal those hurts and walk alongside them. And if it means we might be exposed to some rough language or heavy music, or both, than so be it. Remember, we have Jesus with us, and in Him NOTHING is impossible. We have no need to fear the evil one!

[mikedevilsfan]

Please allow me to thank God for the millions in this world who have been blessed by someone who isn't a Christian. Praise God for people who give to charities, who drink beer, and who smoke. They aren't all Christians, though some are, but they are all contributing to society as we know it. And without them, people like Mike would have no one to compare themselves to and feel so justified in bringing their message against "secular" music.

Just remember, to everyone else out there, Christianity is secular. Would you prefer them to judge "christian" music as evil?

True, not all music is God glorifying. But doesn't the bible say that all things work together for the good of those that love Christ and are called for His pourpose. All things includes everything, things we can understand and those we can't. God is outside of our box. He can work through satanists or atheists or whatever and whomever He wants.

I'm quite happy listening to any music. My reason isn't so much for the music itself, but I want to understand what makes others tick. How can we be effective at seeking and saving the lost if we are too busy sitting in our churches reading the bible and not getting out into the real world. My friends, the battle is outside of the church. Sinners don't need judgement, that will come at the right time. Sinners need love and acceptance.

Lets not get legalistic. Instead, lets walk a mile in the other person's shoes. Many have been hurt by the church (or more realistically, people from the church). Lets heal those hurts and walk alongside them. And if it means we might be exposed to some rough language or heavy music, or both, than so be it. Remember, we have Jesus with us, and in Him NOTHING is impossible. We have no need to fear the evil one!

I am fairly certain that the "All things work..." scripture has nothing to do with involving yourself in worldy music. Look, this message is never popular, and everytime I have ever brought it up I get 100lbs of grief from believers because I suspect that the idea of listning to only edifying music is scary. I am just saying I have talked with a lot of kids who would have accepted Christ if not for secualr music, and I am talking about all kinds of secular music. It was music that made me backslide at 14 not drugs or alcohol.
Michael

[Grank]

i only listen to christian music, watch christian television and movies, look at christian sculpture, painting and tapestry and ready christian books and poetry.

/sarcasm

hey guys, let's just pick out one form of art and scrutinize it... sounds like a good idea.

/sarcasm

When a man lies he murders
Some part of the world
These are the pale deaths
Which men miscall their lives
All this I cannot bear
To witness any longer
Cannot the kingdom of salvation
Take me home?

/song of tribute to one man's life

[Grank]

But when was the last time you heard an innocent romance song on the radio?
i don't listen to t3h radio very often, but i do remember a few songs. this being one. i liked it.

What day is it? And in what month?
This clock never seemed so alive
I can't keep up and I can't back down
I've been losing so much time

Cause it's you and me and all of the people with nothing to do
Nothing to lose
And it's you and me and all of the people
And I don't know why, I can't keep my eyes off of you

All of the things that I want to say just aren't coming out right
I'm tripping on words
You've got my head spinning
I don't know where to go from here

Cause it's you and me and all of the people with nothing to do
Nothing to prove
And it's you and me and all of the people
And I don't know why, I can't keep my eyes off of you

There's something about you now
I can't quite figure out
Everything she does is beautiful
Everything she does is right

Cause it's you and me and all of the people with nothing to do
Nothing to lose
And it's you and me and all of the people
And I don't know why, I can't keep my eyes off of you
and me and all of the people with nothing to do
Nothing to prove
And it's you and me and all of the people
And I don't know why, I can't keep my eyes off of you

What day is it?
And in what month?
This clock never seemed so alive

[Stinky Sam]

if you can’t find what your looking for in the spectrum of Twila Paris to Horde then you are not looking or do not want to look.




I don't think that's the case at all. The main reason i listen to both secular and christian music is simple: a huge proportion of christian music just isn't very good.

[mikedevilsfan]

I don't think that's the case at all. The main reason i listen to both secular and christian music is simple: a huge proportion of christian music just isn't very good.

What kind of music are you looking for?
Michael

[Stinky Sam]

What kind of music are you looking for?
Michael

I am attracted to music that:

1. Is real, from the heart
2. Moves me, i can relate to it

That's about it, really.

My experience in Christian music is that it is often very hollow, a song that sings about praising Jesus doesn't automatically have depth, or isn't always from the heart, and isn't necessarily good.

I've been a church musician for 6 years, so i'd like to think i'm fairly well-versed in christian music, and so much of it seems like cheap imitations of secular music that have the name Jesus thrown in here and there.

[Pouye]

I am fairly certain that the "All things work..." scripture has nothing to do with involving yourself in worldy music. Look, this message is never popular, and everytime I have ever brought it up I get 100lbs of grief from believers because I suspect that the idea of listning to only edifying music is scary. I am just saying I have talked with a lot of kids who would have accepted Christ if not for secualr music, and I am talking about all kinds of secular music. It was music that made me backslide at 14 not drugs or alcohol.
Michael

I cannot believe how conservative you are, mikedevilsfan! ;)

My opinion is all media has a message. It all enters the senses and we must interpret it. I would say television in general (audio and video) is more dangerous than music at promoting worldly "values" or "thinking". Music is simply an expression. Like any expression, it must be interpreted (and this interpretation process is both conscious and sub-conscious).

It is a proven fact that certain forms of music sub-consciously affects people. Some classical music pieces can either calm a person (even an infant), or can increase blood pressure and heart rate (of both adults and infants). Often the "feeling" of the music is interpreted sub-consciously, and overlaps with what we are conscious of in the music (lyrics or other sounds).

Expressions are just that: they are an attempt to communicate something. Even if that "something" is confusion, emptiness, reality, fantasy, or nothingness. The entertainment industry (includes music) is "geared" toward producing expressions that strongly influence people. When a person is strongly influenced, they often become addicted to the stimulation that produces such influential feelings or emotions. Things that produce visceral responses are often the most effective. Sex, lust, romantic overtures, fear, death, pain, insanity, vulgarity, embarrassment, etc. -- all of these things concepts produce a visceral response, and stimulate the body to produce certain hormones and chemicals (adrenaline, endorphines, etc.).

For a Christian, we are told not to be conformed any longer to the ideas and concepts of this world, but rather to be transformed by the renewing of our minds. We are supposed to have the "mind of Christ". To do this, we need to recognize that many things are permissable to a Christian, but many of those permissable things are not beneficial to growth and maturity in Christ. Some of these things could include "harmless" things. There are many activities that people participate in that can keep people from growing in their relationship with Christ. Almost any life pursuit can become a person's treasure.

Our minds long for stimulation. Music is one media that can fill that desire, and thus can become addictive. Being addicted to a music genre that expresses worldly attitudes or concepts is a great way to be molded into the image of this world. I would even say it is unhealthy to be addicted to Christian music, or other "good" expressions. This is because we can become selfish in allowing our minds to constantly be stimulated, rather than being focused on God and those things in life that are important to Him. I know many Christians who are self-absorbed in "Christian" things (music, etc.), and they are not seeking to fulfill the commands of Christ, including the Great Commission.

As Christians, the Bible is clear that we are to set our minds on things above. In other words, we are not to be "habitually" preoccupied with the things of this world. Music, TV, Movies, Video Games, etc. are mostly focused on the things of this world, and even though we live in this world, we are not to become OF this world.

Rock

[Aussie3rddayfan]

As Christians, the Bible is clear that we are to set our minds on things above. In other words, we are not to be "habitually" preoccupied with the things of this world. Music, TV, Movies, Video Games, etc. are mostly focused on the things of this world, and even though we live in this world, we are not to become OF this world.

Rock

Nicely put Rock, we are not to conform any longer.

What this all boils down to in the end is that if something is causing you to sin, get rid of it. Often we are not the best person to evaluate this. Ask a trusted christian brother or sister if they think what you watch, listen to or read is beneficial. if you feel convicted, lose it. Do not become part of the world.

[larryl]

we have been over this topic 100's of times here.

i will say; there is no such thing as christian music.

i have yet to see anyone put forth a definition of christian music as a genre.

[larryl]

i would also like to say, there is definitely music we don't need to listen to. but to lump all (sp called) secular music together is wrong. there are a lot of christians making 'secular' music.

as far as 'christian' music being just as good; sorry.....it's not. there are a few rare exceptions, but when i go into a christian bookstore (which is rare, as i find the whole idea offensive) i generally can't find more than 2 or 3 CD's worth listening to.

the best music with christian themes being put out these days, is coming out on smaller labels, by people the CCM industry has shunned, because of a low JPM (Jesus Per Minute) count.

[bholdj]

I don't think that's the case at all. The main reason i listen to both secular and christian music is simple: a huge proportion of christian music just isn't very good.

I so agree!!!!! Thirdday, SCC and P.O.D, Toby Mac, and Kirk Franklin are champions in my mind in an industry that is needing in fresh energy.

That said, the website is premoting Hyperstatic Unions new album, it is actually very good :D

[bholdj]

What kind of music are you looking for?
Michael

Michael,

First of all, it is ressurection day, so i want to clarify my last few posts. I feel very strongly about this issue, but as I told diane, discussing theology i believe is healthy, as long as it is civil. I have meant evrey word that i said last night, but i want you to know its nothing personal :D .

Now, that said, but what music do you listen to? You have posted terry watkins sight that blasts alot of popular christian artists, thirdday and Steven Curtis Chapman are a few. I assume you agree with evreything this guy says (if ya didn't, why did you post him as a source right? :D ), so im just curious.

What say you :D

Sola Christos

John

[seeker]

I got as far as the whole using another word for the F-word and stopped and had a laugh. How many people, myself included, use gosh instead of God?


I wonder how clear it must look from there to here
No obstruction, this selfish corruption
All in this atmosphere
No fear, less tears, only time to catch my breath
I fail to inhale
Your love constricts my chest
Confusion blinded me, mental and physically
And it's because of you that now I can see
So now I can run. I follow the Son and ride on to Zion
And dance this last song of freedom
But only time will tell, if it's truly for real
Can't change your mind, all I know this is what I feel
Whether I'm wrong or right, please keep my life in sight
And never take you eyes off me

[mikedevilsfan]

Michael,

First of all, it is ressurection day, so i want to clarify my last few posts. I feel very strongly about this issue, but as I told diane, discussing theology i believe is healthy, as long as it is civil. I have meant evrey word that i said last night, but i want you to know its nothing personal :D .

Now, that said, but what music do you listen to? You have posted terry watkins sight that blasts alot of popular christian artists, thirdday and Steven Curtis Chapman are a few. I assume you agree with evreything this guy says (if ya didn't, why did you post him as a source right? :D ), so im just curious.

What say you :D

Sola Christos

John

We were descussing POD and I posted that website becuse of the quotes from the band itself. It has a bunch of quotes (and the quotes part is reliable) so I just said= read the quotes by POD and ignore the commentary by the people on the site (which are borderline in space).
I just used that as a source because I knew it was a place that had a bunch of questionable quotes from POD, and even though I mentioned twice to ignore the commentary, I am still explaining it.

I listen to Pillar, AE,Newsboys, SCC, Mathew west, Demon Hunter and other heavy stuff. Occasionally I'll listen to Extol, Oblation, Antestor etc. Praise and Worship etc
Michael

[Kyle's dad]

I haven't read through this thread so I don't know if I am just rehashing something that has already been said but here are my thoughts anyway.

I personally don't have a problem with secular music. In fact, I have to admit that I listen to more secular than Christian music.

However if listening to secular music is going to somehow be a hindrance to the development of one's faith then they probably shouldn't listen to it.

However, I don't think that should necesarily be seen as the solution to the problem. While it would definitely be benefical to avoid anything that is harmful to the development of your faith, in the case of secular music, I don't the music itself is the problem. If someone can't listen to songs that glorify drugs, violence etc. without being tempted to commit violence or take drugs themselves then there is obviously some maturity, emotional, and/or pschological issues that need to be dealt with. The music is not the core problem, it's merely one of the means by which the problem manifests itself. Does that make it less problematic for them to listen to secular music?? Of course not. At least not until after the issues have been dealt with.

But to simply blame the music is to make it a scapegoat.

This topic comes up on these boards quite often and I am always reminded of what Bobcat Goldthwait said about an incident where some parents tried to sue Judas Priest after it was discovered that their sons, who committed suicide, felt that Judas Priest was telling them to commit suicide in their music. In the course of the trial it was also discovered that there were serious emotional and psychologiocal issues that had not been dealt with, for the boys.

In a very over-the-top, and not so sensitive, but probably more truthful than we might want to acknowledge statement regarding the situation, comic Bobcat Goldthwait said "Those boys would have gotten the same message from the Monkees."


Happy Easter

He is Risen!!!!

[Kyle's dad]

Type in the same site, and see if thirdday is listed. You will be surprised :D

Yeah, I did that and on one I found out not only is Third Day dangerous but so in Point of Grace!!!

[Grank]

ok... n00b question here. who is scc? i'm assume'n i know of them since there are only like 10 christian bands who get their name thrown around a lot.

if i could find a band i liked as much as metallica or had a guitarist as good as david gilmour or kirk hammet i'd listen to them.

there are a few christian bands i like. when i'm feel'n pretty chill i'll put on some jeremy camp or pre-"come together" third day... occasionally some kutless(not very often), skillet(i lost that cd) or day of fire(i'm look'n forward to their new cd). today though i played some black sabbath, paramore, lacuna coil, metallica, better than ezra, default, lifehouse and motion city soundtrack along with many other, but mostly those. i don't think i listened to one Christian band today... but then again that definition is up in the air... is there a Christian genre, is there not? i think most ppl know what is meant when another person uses the term "Christian band." i use it to describe a band who is putting out a clear message that they are Christian and promote Jesus, the Bible, God, etc. It's hard to say it is a genre though since there would be the same subgenres as secular genres... or maybe Christian could be a subgenre of every other genre. In that case we would have to label Christian music as a subgenre. If we did that then there may be people who would be offended by calling Christian music a subgenre and falling under something they didn't have control over. haha i like that line of thought. i think i'm gonna refer to Christian music as a subgenre now, and when ppl talk about Christian music i'm gonna ask them which subgenre they are speaking of.

ANYWAY... i use music to reflect myself. I feel that i am expressing myself through the music which i listen to, and not the other way around. my music doesn't shape me as much as i shape my music. God forbid we actually hold people responsible for their decisions. MUSIC MADE ME BACKSLIDE, T3H OH NOES!!1!one!!eleven!!

[Grank]

Yeah, I did that and on one I found out not only is Third Day dangerous but so in Point of Grace!!!
well point of grace sure does scare me... *terrified*

[larryl]

as i have stated many times.....i wish the 'christian music industry' could cease to exist. let those bands pursue normal record deals. if they are truly that good, they can get them. it's not so much a 'subgenre', as a subculture......it exists in it's own little world, with a built in fanbase who buy whatever it churns out....it's own radio stations, it's own stores even.

sad.

[Grank]

as i have stated many times.....i wish the 'christian music industry' could cease to exist. let those bands pursue normal record deals. if they are truly that good, they can get them. it's not so much a 'subgenre', as a subculture......it exists in it's own little world, with a built in fanbase who buy whatever it churns out....it's own radio stations, it's own stores even.

sad.
very very tr00.
i'm finding more and more that each genre and sometimes even subgenre has it's own subculture though, epsecially with country, emo, screamo and whatever Panic! at the Disco/Hawthorne Heights/From First to Last/Saosin/My Chemical Romance is classified as. You are very correct though. it is quite noticable in "Christian" music. they even have their own awards... i guess you could say it would parrallel the Country Music Awards, but i would disagree in that multiple other genres are represented. who decides who get's to be considered for a dove award? i wonder what their definition of Christian music is...

man, i've said genre a lot. i dislike that word.

[larryl]

here's the official definition, from the GMA web site

Gospel music is music in any style whose lyric is:

* substantially based upon historically orthodox Christian truth contained in or derived from the Holy Bible;
* and/or apparently prompted and informed by a Christian world view.

you can read it all here:
http://www.gmamusicawards.com/voting2006/pdfs/2006_Policy_Procedures_Ma nual.pdf

also, they changed the rules, after they originally wrote them in 1998, only to find they had disqualified some people, such as michael w smith, sixpence none the richer, and a couple of others....

here were the original rules, which were obviously found to be a little to strict:

Gospel music is music in any style whose lyric is:

* substantially based upon historically orthodox Christian truth contained in or derived from the Holy Bible;
* and/or an expression of worship of God or praise for His works;
* and/or testimony of relationship with God through Christ;
* and/or obviously prompted and informed by a Christian world view.

[Grank]

um... isn't that less strict? you only have to fit one of four instead of one of two. oh well... thanks for the info larryl

[bholdj]

We were descussing POD and I posted that website becuse of the quotes from the band itself. It has a bunch of quotes (and the quotes part is reliable)

OF course it is :D . Point of Grace, Thirdday, etc are all on this site, so that has to make the P.O.D quotes reliable.

My advice is find a new source dude, watkins is trash .

[larryl]

um... isn't that less strict? you only have to fit one of four instead of one of two. oh well... thanks for the info larryl


note a couple of word changes...like "obviously" was changed to "apparently"

the content no longer had to be obvious......

makes no matter to me. i don't think there should be awards for this so-called 'christian music'......who then, are we praising at this award show?

[Jaymze13]

Horde. There's a name I haven't heard in a long time. :cool: Cool stuff

[mikedevilsfan]

Horde. There's a name I haven't heard in a long time. :cool: Cool stuff

It was the heaviest Christian band I could think of. The one man band.
Michael

[roush2]

i can't say much here cause i listen to secular music as well as Christian. The main difference is the mentions of God in the Christian songs, and even now that is few and far between. Now I can play some Christian music and can't tell if it's "secular" or vice versa. Good music is just good music.

btw, i'm not talking about the secular music that cusses every word or that sings strictly about drugs, sex, or that kinda stuff...that's just crap

[Jason]

ok... n00b question here. who is scc? i'm assume'n i know of them since there are only like 10 christian bands who get their name thrown around a lot.


SCC = Steven Curtis Chapman

[mikedevilsfan]

SCC = Steven Curtis Chapman

Speaking of SCC Larry- that is a Christian band. I don't have to wonder when he says I'm diving in, to which pool he is refering. That's the whole point I like to be able to listen to music I know is pleasing to God and not have to worry that I will get something confusing or ambigious stuck in my head.
Michael

[larryl]

i like steven curtis chapman......good songs.......

consider these lyrics though....they could easily be played on a soft rock station....no mention of God anywhere.

"Maria



Maria she's too young to understand but old enough to
feel the pain
Of living where no love can grow with no hope for change
Maria her world is an angry place but she makes sure the scars don't show
And with every hurt her tender heart is growing cold (but)

Who who's gonna love Maria
Who who's gonna touch her with the tenderness she longs for
Like a desert longs for rain
She's got a hunger deep inside and with every tear she cries
She wonder's if there's someone out there somewhere
Who's gonna love Maria

(Maria) she looks in the mirror now and the little girl is gone
And still the search for someone's love goes on and on for Maria
But does anybody care or even notice her at all
Is anyone listening close enough to hear her calling (who)

Who who's gonna love Maria
Who who's gonna touch her with the tenderness she longs for
Like a desert longs for rain
She's got a hunger deep inside and with every tear she cries
She wonder's if there's someone out there

Maria if you can hear me please know that you're not forgotten
Somebody's trying to get to you

Who who's gonna love Maria
Who who's gonna touch her with the tenderness she longs for
Like a desert longs for rain
She's got a hunger deep inside and with every tear she cries
She wonder's if there's someone out there somewhere
Who's gonna love Maria

written by Steven Curtis Chapman/Mary Beth Chapman/James Isaac Elliott"

[larryl]

i apologize in advance if posting those lyrics breaks some rule here......

[mikedevilsfan]

i like steven curtis chapman......good songs.......

consider these lyrics though....they could easily be played on a soft rock station....no mention of God anywhere.

"Maria



Maria she's too young to understand but old enough to
feel the pain
Of living where no love can grow with no hope for change
Maria her world is an angry place but she makes sure the scars don't show
And with every hurt her tender heart is growing cold (but)

Who who's gonna love Maria
Who who's gonna touch her with the tenderness she longs for
Like a desert longs for rain
She's got a hunger deep inside and with every tear she cries
She wonder's if there's someone out there somewhere
Who's gonna love Maria

(Maria) she looks in the mirror now and the little girl is gone
And still the search for someone's love goes on and on for Maria
But does anybody care or even notice her at all
Is anyone listening close enough to hear her calling (who)

Who who's gonna love Maria
Who who's gonna touch her with the tenderness she longs for
Like a desert longs for rain
She's got a hunger deep inside and with every tear she cries
She wonder's if there's someone out there

Maria if you can hear me please know that you're not forgotten
Somebody's trying to get to you

Who who's gonna love Maria
Who who's gonna touch her with the tenderness she longs for
Like a desert longs for rain
She's got a hunger deep inside and with every tear she cries
She wonder's if there's someone out there somewhere
Who's gonna love Maria

written by Steven Curtis Chapman/Mary Beth Chapman/James Isaac Elliott"

Take it incontext with his entire catalog or the CD in which this came from.
Pillar covered Sunday Bloody Sunday.
You are using examples of secualr bands who may have one ambigious song mixed in with those that are not. I am sure if I searched Marylin Mansons albums I could find one seemingly "good" song lyrically. It still doesn;t proclude the fact that the same demons were in the studio when he recorded the other filth.
Michael

[larryl]

i don't think i have mentioned ANY bands.........except for some bands made up of Christians, which i just mentioned in the POD thread...

[bholdj]

Speaking of SCC Larry- that is a Christian band. I don't have to wonder when he says I'm diving in, to which pool he is refering.

Terry Watkins does :D

[mikedevilsfan]

i don't think i have mentioned ANY bands.........except for some bands made up of Christians, which i just mentioned in the POD thread...
I am probably getting my wires crossed.
Sorry.
Michael

[larryl]

no problem:D

[Grank]

ssc.... steven curtis chapman... i see i see. thanks jason.

so how does one go about listening to Christian music without listening to the same 3-4 good bands in a specific genre?

[larryl]

i usually say check out a few record labels.....they tend to be segmented by genre in the strange little CCM world......

for the hard stuff, some branch of tooth and nail is your best shot at finding a bunch of new bands.....

go to: http://www.toothandnail.com/front.php

also check out the other labels under their umbrella : solid state, and BEC

[maui sista]

I LOVE MUSIC! but just as everything else in life it has to be moderated.
There is good music (thats not Christian) and there is the bad.....and something that is bad for one Chrisrian ie..drinking might not be a problem for one person but it has a huge effect on others to avoid, music is the same.

I have discovered being a young Christian (I am 22) that in everything that this world gives you, you have to stand back and think "Is this gonna effect me in a good or bad way and is it gonna hinder my walk with God"


To each his own battle....

sonja

[Gandalf]

Sonja,

It sounds like God has given you the same wisdom those of us who've been here a while know that He's given your brother. Good answer. :)

[Grank]

...sonja
blade?

[bholdj]

blade?

my thoughts exactly

[Gandalf]

:confused: Was there a character named Sonja in the Wesley Snipes vampire killer movies?

[bholdj]

:confused: Was there a character named Sonja in the Wesley Snipes vampire killer movies?

part II right? Who was the girl in part II?

[Gandalf]

No idea... I only saw the first one, and that was a long time ago. Was just wondering why he associated her name with the word "blade" ...

[bholdj]

No idea... I only saw the first one, and that was a long time ago. Was just wondering why he associated her name with the word "blade" ...

my first thought was the movies, im sure thats all it is :)

[Gandalf]

IMDB doesn't list a character by that name among the top billed cast for any of the three movies... was the only possible context I could come up with for the word "blade" alone... I was hoping since you agreed with him you might know what he was talking about :)

[maui sista]

blade?


I also get Mortal combat alot and Red Sonja.....I am starting to wonder why my name is always used in weird girl killing movies:confused:


:)

[Healing Oil]

I am interested in the opinions on secular music from the group here. IMO secular music is extremely dangerous. I come to this conclusion partly from my testimony (it was metal that made me backslide as a kid) and partly from being in ministry and talking to literally hundreds of kids who were addicted and blinded by it. I think music is a spiritual thing and when someone who isn’t saved creates it they are open for influence.

Do I think all secular music is evil, no. I don’t consider music that has no lyrics harmful, and there are occasional songs that come out that could be examined in the light of scripture to not be misleading (although I can’t think of one at the moment), but who wants to spend all their time using a fine tooth comb on music. I like to listen to music and not have to think about whether someone is saying something offensive to Christ.

I think music is a gift. ( as a musician myself) I consider it a privilege not a right and if you can’t find what your looking for in the spectrum of Twila Paris to Horde then you are not looking or do not want to look.

I also scrutinize Christian bands that I listen to as well. Most recently I began boycotting POD because of their confusing imagery and watered down rasta influenced “jah” religion that is confusing to young people who hope that being positive is enough to get by. I was flipping through the channels one night a while back and heard POD during a documentary and thought yea, this must be about Christian music and got exicted. It turned out the show (VH1) was about swingers and POD lent their music via the corporate demon to this. I mentioned this on their message board and had hundreds of people defending them saying they had no control. POD fans will forgive pretty much anything they do, regardless of how unbiblical it is. This is because they are addicted to the music.

Also as a side note, I grew up in the days of thrash metal and this was a major influence on me. The first concert I saw in 86’ at 14 was Slayer. All my friends were immersed in this. I saw my best friend die in 88’ right in front of me at a King Diamond concert amidst people with painted faces saying “screw him he’s dead, lets get on with the show.” Fortunately just a couple of weeks before his death he had a visitation from the Lord and I think he accepted him. I have three other friends, however, who were also immersed in that kind of music Danny 16, Chris 30, and Tony 27 all dead an in hell right now.
Secular music is nothing to play with believe me.
MichaelHow biblical is Rage Against The Machine?

You are sadly boycotting the wrong band.

[mikedevilsfan]

How biblical is Rage Against The Machine?

You are sadly boycotting the wrong band.
Jeez lious, can anyone read around here. I don't listen to RATM. I said I agree with their politics, but not their delivery ala shooting people, cussing, unchanneld rebellion. I boycott both bands, but would expect POD to know better.
Michael

[Healing Oil]

Jeez lious, can anyone read around here. I don't listen to RATM. I said I agree with their politics, but not their delivery ala shooting people, cussing, unchanneld rebellion. I boycott both bands, but would expect POD to know better.
Michael
Well, in order to understand or know their politics and beliefs, you would have to listen to them (music, interviews, whatever else). Why give them a minutes time?

Really...and yes, I can read.

[Grank]

No idea... I only saw the first one, and that was a long time ago. Was just wondering why he associated her name with the word "blade" ...
sonja blade... mortal kombat lol

[dpandtammy]

I read most of this thread a few days ago, and I took some time to pray, and have surgery, and now I am led to post my opinion here, even though if you have been around a while, you probably already know.
I will start by confessing here, publicly, that in the past 3 months or so, I have listened to a lot of secular music. Even bought a few CDs, was convinced I wasn't doing anything wrong... God seriously convicted me of this just a couple of weeks ago, when I was driving down the road, and my daughter (11) asked me WHY I was listening to music that does not lift up God in any way. See, since she was born, we have NEVER listened to anything but "Christian" music. I found myself trying to talk myself out of everything I have taught her from birth. I have since retracted that, and told her I was completely WRONG about the whole thing.
So anyway, I am a Christian. Along with the title of "Christian" comes a responsibility. (a lot of them, actually) But what I am trying to say in this case is, as Christians, we have a responsibility to surround ourselves with things that bring Glory to God Himself. Not only does it help us out, it serves as a wonderful example to our lost friends, when they get in our cars and we are blaring "How great is our God" instead of "Let's get drunk and be somebody". Listening to God-centered music gives us an opportunity to have Worship in our cars, on the way to work, or the grocery store, or whatever. It is a wonderful start to be reminded on the way to work how great our God is, kinda starts you off on the right note.
I have been hit with the fact that not all artists who sing this music are actually "Christians". Well, they will have to answer to that on judgment day, not us. If a song makes me think about and worship God right from the beginning of the day, then I will listen to it over a country or whatever song anyday.
So let me tell you what happened when I was NOT listening to the right things.I became depressed. I was not happy with my appearance, my home, my job, I even tried to get my husband to take me outta our church, that we LOVE, because there was just too much conviction there. I cannot tell you that it was ALL completely due to the music, but it was a major player. I became complacent. I even liked the song "Let's get drunk and...." . But I let too much of satan get in. And that is precisely why I am so against secular music. Satan will use whatever he can. music is to me what football is to many men. I LOVE it! I am always listening to music. And whatever you allow in your mind will take over, little by little. And you will wake up and find yourself in a place you don't want to be. I challenge anyone who says music is not that big of a deal to listen to nothing except "Christian" music for a week. No country, no rock, nothing. Not even those classics that "are not so bad". Just listen to music about God. See if it makes a difference. See if you can go back. Maybe you can. But I don't know many people who are willing to take that challenge....everyone that I have talked to about this, and asked them to take this challenge, if they were truly devoted to God, they could not go back. Just try it. PM me if you do this, and keep me posted...
~~Blessings~~
Tammy

[Pouye]

I also get Mortal combat alot and Red Sonja.....I am starting to wonder why my name is always used in weird girl killing movies:confused:


:)

That's because it's a strong, yet feminine name that has a Russian ring to it. Besides, I would be willing to bet you could easily kick any of these pampered Hollywood actresses' butts, too. ;)

Me

[Evanescence]

Allow me:

I've been around music for almost all my life. My dad taught me to use the stereo at age 3 and I havnt looked back since....I love music and listen to almost anything....at times.

True, some music is very destructive and even satanic, no question. But should we just label all music as EVIL, except for Christian? If we stereotype like that, then we should swear off going to church, because many preachers and/or religions are dangerous cults with crooked preachers that don't know God.

Fact is, a lot of "secular" music exposes the corruption and insanity of the church. It will also expose the crooked ness of corrupt Govts, companies and countries. We can't have that, so we deem it EVIL and make people stay away from it....from the truth. This is particularly the case in many cult-type churches here in america.

What about the no-talent dork that knows they can command a "Christian" audience so they make only "Christian" music and claim their doing Gods will, thus getting rich or making money from it. If its not from the heart, then they are seeling out God. That surely happens.....

Some of the lamest, weakest music I have ever heard was when i listened to contemporary Christian music. It was clear that the msuic suffered as a result of the message. Perhaps a message sent for the wrong reasons....

All thing should be in balance and perhaps one can/does getted called from God to stay away from some music. But to stereotype all music and deem it EVIL....excpet for Christian music isn't cool. Further, to think that because someone is a professing Christian, that they are better than someone OR that its OK to listen to their music is just silly. How do you REALLY know someone? Same with judging someone based on an encounter or something you heard?

Its not my problem if Jimi Hendrix was stoned when he wrote Purple Haze....I just like the guitars. AND.....why would I be judged for listening to the music of someone who wasn't a Christian 30 yrs ago?

All things in balance.......:cool:

[bholdj]

I thought about doing an album and started listening to a lot of the secular for ideas but it has become a habit and it is a no can do for me unless trying to learn new stuff to use!:o

please rephrase :D

[Hornmaster]

I only listen to Christian music most of the time, it just seems that it makes me feel better than listening to a non christian artist. But (I didnt see this mentioned before) theres some 'artists' who use subliminal messages in their music, which you gotta be careful for, I dont mean that all of them do it, most dont, and only the freaky dudes out there do.

One example I remember is that song/chant thing (I never really heard the thing, people sang it at home etc, so I kno nothing else about it lol) it goes -along the lines of- "another one down, and another one down, and another one bits the dust." Which, backwards, sounds very much like "smoking marijuana is fun" or something like that lol I dont really remember, but its another thing you have to be aware of in some secular artists.

k now if your sitting there trying to read that backwards lol and find that it sounds totally unrelated to what I just said, its coz I havent done it myself - untried and untested by me :p Just thought Id mention that :)

[Evanescence]

I only listen to Christian music most of the time, it just seems that it makes me feel better than listening to a non christian artist. But (I didnt see this mentioned before) theres some 'artists' who use subliminal messages in their music, which you gotta be careful for, I dont mean that all of them do it, most dont, and only the freaky dudes out there do.

One example I remember is that song/chant thing (I never really heard the thing, people sang it at home etc, so I kno nothing else about it lol) it goes -along the lines of- "another one down, and another one down, and another one bits the dust." Which, backwards, sounds very much like "smoking marijuana is fun" or something like that lol I dont really remember, but its another thing you have to be aware of in some secular artists.

k now if your sitting there trying to read that backwards lol and find that it sounds totally unrelated to what I just said, its coz I havent done it myself - untried and untested by me :p Just thought Id mention that :)

Just my point...how do you know who is Christian, and who isn't? Just because someone says they are, doesn't mean that they TRULY are...or aren't. Don't give me that, "By their fruits, you will know them," junk either. That idea only goes so far. How do you REALLY know?

Also, I wanted to poitn out in my earlier rant, that just becuase a song says soemthing, doesn't mean it is glorifying it, or that that artist wrote it or is their point of view. EX: The Pink Floyd album, The Wall, has the well know song; Another Brick in the Wall. In the song, it says "We don't need no education," It SOUNDS very anti-education and could let you believe it promotes rebellion against teachers and education. But truth is, it is a story....concept piece and that is only one song of many that make up the story. It's about the mean, controlling and destructive teachers that were in the mans life. Its a story.

One must be careful not to generalize and/or take things out of context. And, parents need to explain things with their kids and listen to the same music as their kids. The Wall isn't a record for 10 yr olds to listent to without a parent explaining things to them.....or even at all. Its too deep and can easily by mis-interpreted.

Backwards masking? That's a joke and a farce. Its a myth cooked up by a bunch of Kook, Jesus Freaks. I personally know and have been mentored by a devout Christian with a 150K recording studio and he laughs at the mentality. Its impossible to create such a thing unless you speak or sing backwards to make it sound like something forward. Satanists learn to speak in a backwards tongue but thats different.

The Christian community also dislikes secular music and promotes theres..."Christian" as a marketing ploy. Scare the masses away from secular music and they'll buy the good, jesus loving Christian music. Its clever marketing and more selling out of Christ. Shame on those that do it.

E

[dpandtammy]

Please do not misunderstand what I am about to post. I am not angry, simply re-stating my opinion, okay?
There is nothing wrong with being a Jesus Freak. OKay. The highest compliment that I have ever been given was to be called a Jesus Freak. Yes, I will go to the extreme and say that if whatever we, as Christians, are listening to, does not bring Glory and Honor to G-O-D, then we should under no circumstances be listening to it. Jesus gave everything for us. So we, in turn should do the same. Following Him is not about having whatever we want, and listening to whatever we want, and then trying to justify it. Following Christ is about SACRIFICE. I love good music. Some secular bands do play a really great guitar. But I choose myself not to listen to them because I want my head to be filled with um, "good, Jesus-loving" Christian music. As I said earlier, if Third Day or whoever I am listening to at any given moment chooses to not be who they claim to be, then that is between them and G-O-D, not me.

Tammy

[Healing Oil]

Tammy,
To me, when I listen to really good secular music and I hear how awesome the guitarist is or the drummer, I think "Wow, God really blessed them with talent". Their performance, their talent, to me atleast, is honorable to God. Yea they practiced their whole lives, but who gave them the ability?

It is a matter of conviction for me. There are some secular bands that I dont listen to, because of who and what they are about. Then again there are secular bands I do listen to, simply because they are very talented, and their lyrics are clean. Just because a song doesnt specifically mention Jesus/God, doesnt make the music any less honorable.

Listening to secular music doesnt make a Christian any less devoted to the Lord than a Christian who doesnt listen to secular. I have a 6 disc CD changed in my car and 2 of the CD's are secular and the rest are Christian.

[dpandtammy]

I don't mean to imply that I think anyone is "less Christian" because of who or what they listen to. Everyone is different. ( a good thing) Maybe it is a matter of personal conviction. I feel convicted when I listen to a song that does not specifically give some kind of glory to God. If you read my first post on this thread, (just a few back) you know that I have had my struggles. I don't claim to just "know" what's best. I am simply trying to share what I have learned for myself. If somehow what God is saying through my keyboard helps someone, then that is great! (and Yes, I will give God the glory) If not, or someone does not agree with me, then that is okay too. It is great that we can all get on these boards and share our opinions, no matter how varying they are. Talking about what we believe and leaving ourselves open is the only way we can learn from each other........ :)

[larryl]

i just listen to music.

most of the so-called 'christian' music out there isn't anymore glorifying of God than the average 'secualar' music.

and some of the best music around is being put out by christians who don't fit into the CCM mold....so they aren't considered 'christian music' ....but their music is too 'christian' for mainstream radio to be comfortable with it.(and no, i don't mean POD, king's x, or any of the other huge name bands)

[dpandtammy]

Moderation for evil, interesting concept. Just a little porn never hurt no one.
And it's funny you should mention trashing secular CD's because shortly after I rededicated my life in 1993 I wasted all my secualr music and that night I recieved the Baptism of the Holy Spirit Acts style.
Michael
So yeah get rid of it all and make a serious commitment to Christ.

Okay, I am really liking this last line a LOT. Get rid of it ALL and make a SERIOUS COMMITMENT to CHRIST. Guys. This is what it is all about. He wants everything. And why shouldn't he? He GAVE EVERYTHING!!! He didn't "almost" die for us. He DIED. He sacrificed His entire life. SO who are we to say that we should not do the same? I don't care what kind of guitar picker they are. If they are not vocally giving their Praise to the one and ONLY God, they are, either vocally or not, giving it to someone else. Straight up. According to the BIBLE, you cannot serve God and man.

[shygirl]

Hello all. Not a bible scholar by any means, just a mommy that wanted to share this thought. 1 Cor 6:20 says "For you were bought at a price, therefore glorify God in your body and in your spirit which are God's." I have never personally struggled with the music issue myself. Being a homeschooling mom, any time that I have to listen to music, I would just rather it have a postive encouraging Christian message. When we listen to music, we tend to think about what we are listening to. I would just rather think about God. I feel that any moment without God is worthless (Point of Grace) song. I just don't want to waste time on secular music. I don't see how it would glorify God for me to go around singing stuff like "Baby Got Back". :rolleyes: Although I have not struggled with the music issue, persay, I have struggled with a couple of tv shows I watch that I don't feel glorify God. We all have our struggles. I know several people who listen to secular music and think it is fine. To each his own. It is not my place to judge them. I leave that to my God. I just do what I feel He wants me to do. To all those out here sharing your opinions and changing the world for Jesus : Rock on!

[shygirl]

I was just reading another post and I wanted to add this. Does it matter if the person who is singing the song is truly a Christian and is truly right with God? If we are taking the song and using it for the purposes of praising God through it, why does it matter if the singer is not. God is not going to judge us by other's intentions, but by our own.

[Jason]

Okay, quiz time ...

Should we as Christians listen to a song like this?

Take a Chance on Love

This joy we share as friends
Grows stronger ev’ry day
And now when you go
I’m wishing you’d stay
I never want to hurt you
You mean so much to me
Should I risk what we have
For what I hope we could be?

Chorus:
Can we take a chance on love?
And see where this choice may lead
Can we take a chance on love?
And share this life, you and me
Will we grow closer
‘Til our two hearts become one?
Girl, what will happen
If we take a chance on love?

This time we’ve had so far
I’d never throw away
But somehow I know
There’s more we could say
I’m longing now to love you
And hold you close to me
Will you trade what we have
For what I hope we could be?

Chorus:
Can we take a chance on love?
And see where this choice may lead
Can we take a chance on love?
And share this life, you and me
Will we grow closer
‘Til our two hearts become one?
Girl, what will happen
If we take a chance on love?

Bridge:
I don’t know what the future will be
I just know I want you here with me

Chorus:
Can we take a chance on love?
And see where this choice may lead
Can we take a chance on love?
And share this life, you and me
Will we grow closer
‘Til our two hearts become one?
Girl, what will happen
If we take a chance on love?

[larryl]

Okay, I am really liking this last line a LOT. Get rid of it ALL and make a SERIOUS COMMITMENT to CHRIST. Guys. This is what it is all about. He wants everything. And why shouldn't he? He GAVE EVERYTHING!!! He didn't "almost" die for us. He DIED. He sacrificed His entire life. SO who are we to say that we should not do the same? I don't care what kind of guitar picker they are. If they are not vocally giving their Praise to the one and ONLY God, they are, either vocally or not, giving it to someone else. Straight up. According to the BIBLE, you cannot serve God and man.


so what do we do with songs from "christian bands" (i hate even typing that) that don't glorify God?

[dpandtammy]

Jason, I cannot tell you that there is anything wrong with these lyrics. In fact, there are a lot of songs that I cannot look at the words or even listen to them and tell. OK. So i see your point. It doesn't say, "GOD made me love you", so it is bad, right? That's fine. I do see your point. But I am not backing down. I will not listen to any music who's band says things like, "We don't want to be classified as a Christian band." My radio station does not even go to the secular stations in my town. I don't buy CDs from people who do not acknowledge God as their saviour. My kids do NOT listen to secular music.
Music was given by God. All gifts were given by God for His pleasure. NOT OURS. There is too much in this world that is "down the middle". God is not a "middle" kinda man. He wants all of you or none of you. Does that mean that He will not accept us if we sin? No. It does not. But as Christians, we are responsible for doing everything we can to do everything we do for God.

[Jason]

Jason, I cannot tell you that there is anything wrong with these lyrics. In fact, there are a lot of songs that I cannot look at the words or even listen to them and tell. OK. So i see your point. It doesn't say, "GOD made me love you", so it is bad, right? That's fine. I do see your point.

I asked about this song because it doesn't mention God or Jesus, but I know for a fact that it was written by a Christian. How am I so sure? Because I wrote it. Its full title is Take a Chance on Love (Roseann's Song).

[dpandtammy]

so what do we do with songs from "christian bands" (i hate even typing that) that don't glorify God?

All of our talents are to be used to glorify God. Period. Just like these lyrics that Jason posted, some are not so black and white. But if someone like 3rd Day has a love song on their CD ,, I am a lot more likely to hear it than if it is on a, say, Toby Keith, CD. (I just pulled that name outta the air.) I don't think God frowns on a good love song written to or about the ones you love.

[dpandtammy]

I asked about this song because it doesn't mention God or Jesus, but I know for a fact that it was written by a Christian. How am I so sure? Because I wrote it. Its full title is Take a Chance on Love (Roseann's Song).

:) I thought you probably wrote that one, Jason. It's beautiful, by the way.
But are we totally missing the point here?

[Gandalf]

Music was given by God. All gifts were given by God for His pleasure. NOT OURS.
I don't think the two are mutually exclusive. He created it for His pleasure and ours, in my opinion. There's plenty in Scripture (Psalms, etc.) that says God created some things (at least in part) to give us pleasure.

[Jason]

:) I thought you probably wrote that one, Jason. It's beautiful, by the way.
But are we totally missing the point here?

But what if Toby Keith wrote it? Should we not listen to it then?

[shygirl]

Doesn't a song that talks about marriage and love bring glory to God? He created and celebrates both of those things. I know that when I sing love songs to my husband that God is happy with that. He created him for me.
Also the "christian bands songs that don't bring glory to God", like what? I would love to hear of an example.

[dpandtammy]

Okay. I feel like I am just NOT getting my point across. So. Here is what I am going to do, probably what I should have done in the first place. I am gonna back away from my computer. I am gonna read and pray for a few minutes, and then I will be back. ( I am NOT ducking out of this convo. I WILL be back.) :)

[shygirl]

I think it is more important to consider if the LYRICS of the song really glorify God. If the band claims to be Chritian or not is not really the point. Do the lyrics draw you to Him? Do they focus your thoughts on the Almighty? I think that is the point. Take "Jesus Take the Wheel" by Carrie Underwood. It is classified as a country song, but I have sat numerous times and wept after listening to this song.

[Jason]

I think it is more important to consider if the LYRICS of the song really glorify God. If the band claims to be Chritian or not is not really the point. Do the lyrics draw you to Him? Do they focus your thoughts on the Almighty? I think that is the point. Take "Jesus Take the Wheel" by Carrie Underwood. It is classified as a country song, but I have sat numerous times and wept after listening to this song.

So you would give a thumbs down to my song above?

[shygirl]

Like I said not a bible scholar, but I believe it glorifies Love, something God created for our pleasure. I also think it is beautiful.

[larryl]

But what if Toby Keith wrote it? Should we not listen to it then?

beautiful point.

[Jason]

Like I said not a bible scholar, but I believe it glorifies Love, something God created for our pleasure. I also think it is beautiful.

Thank you. I'm glad you think it's beautiful. But it doesn't fit your mold. It doesn't draw us to Jesus. It's in Paul McCartney's words "just another silly love song."

[shygirl]

Okay I am not going to say that a love song by Toby Keith would not glorify God any less than a love song written by MWS. However, if I buy a CD by Toby Keith for the love song, my money is going to support and pay for all the negative songs I do not agree with.

[shygirl]

Thank you. I'm glad you think it's beautiful. But it doesn't fit your mold. It doesn't draw us to Jesus. It's in Paul McCartney's words "just another silly love song."

No actually it does. I already said that I believe songs that honor love and marriage do glorify God. He created my husband for my pleasure. When I sing love songs to or about my husband, in a way I am thanking him for the wonderful blessing he has given me. That DOES glorify Him!!

[larryl]

All of our talents are to be used to glorify God. Period. Just like these lyrics that Jason posted, some are not so black and white. But if someone like 3rd Day has a love song on their CD ,, I am a lot more likely to hear it than if it is on a, say, Toby Keith, CD. (I just pulled that name outta the air.) I don't think God frowns on a good love song written to or about the ones you love.


what about a song written about daily struggles, that maybe doesn't mention God?

i guess i just don't see this all the same way that you do, and that's ok.

[dpandtammy]

OKay. I prayed, I looked for a scripture that I know is in the Bible, but I cannot find it. I will continue looking. I also looked back at all the other posts in this thread... It seems as we are having the same discussion that has been had in this thread over and over.
OK. I do not listen to any music that is not labeled "Christian". I don't necessarily think that is the correct way to go about my musical decisions. Many think it is not. That is okay. I am not gonna judge any of you for listening to Toby Keith or Marilyn Manson, if that is the case. If I am a Christian, I do not think it is okay to support singers who are openly not Christian. I think that is one point we can all agree on. NOt everything is so black and white, and that is where our own judgments come in. I think it is not okay to use wonderful musical talents that God gave to do anything but praise Him. If a singer confesses God, and sings about God, I am gonna listen to his music. If a singer confesses God, then his actions and the things he chooses to sing about do not reaveal a relationship with God, I am not. I might miss out on some good music that isn't necessarily bad. That is my choice. There are singers that profess God and sing about God, but their actions do not show a relationship with Christ. I am likely not gonna listen to them either. When I buy a CD, I am supporting a ministry. Okay. sometimes my judgments are wrong. Sometimes they are not. I am not gonna openly declare war on everything secular. I am simply not gonna support it.
Jason, from what I have seen of you on the boards, you are a fine Christian person. I do think that you understand where I am going here. You wrote a beautiful song. If you put out a CD with that song on it, along with songs that praised God, I would buy the CD. If you put out a CD that had songs about drinking and partying AND that song, I would never hear it. Does this make sense? The music I choose to listen to is going to be music that draws me closer to God. It will be music that reminds me Who He is, and music that makes me want to praise Him all day. I cannot allow myself to listen to anything else. Another point.... (see my next post)

[Jason]

Jason, from what I have seen of you on the boards, you are a fine Christian person. I do think that you understand where I am going here. You wrote a beautiful song. If you put out a CD with that song on it, along with songs that praised God, I would buy the CD. If you put out a CD that had songs about drinking and partying AND that song, I would never hear it. Does this make sense?

Yes, it does make sense. And my first CD only has songs that are explicitly Christian. But I would include the love song if I do a second CD.

[dpandtammy]

I have said this before, and I will say it until the day I die. Our youth have a lot of mixed messages. I work with the youth a lot in my church. And for the most part, they are closer to God than I am. I don't want them to get in my car and hear Toby Keith in my car and think it is okay. You have to consider that things that are okay for you are not necessarily okay for everyone. It goes back to that stumbling block thing. You have to consider that...

[Stinky Sam]

He created my husband for my pleasure.

Interesting take on the purpose and design of marriage....but perhaps that's for another time...

[Healing Oil]

Okay, I am really liking this last line a LOT. Get rid of it ALL and make a SERIOUS COMMITMENT to CHRIST. Guys. This is what it is all about. He wants everything. And why shouldn't he? He GAVE EVERYTHING!!! He didn't "almost" die for us. He DIED. He sacrificed His entire life. SO who are we to say that we should not do the same? I don't care what kind of guitar picker they are. If they are not vocally giving their Praise to the one and ONLY God, they are, either vocally or not, giving it to someone else. Straight up. According to the BIBLE, you cannot serve God and man.

"get rid of it all (secular music) and make a serious commitment to Christ"...? I think I heard that right.

This thread is seriously starting to disturb me. Want the truth? I am not very impressed with the "talent" of the CCM. Truthfully, I am bored with the radio stations. It is repetitive.

And about your radio stations that wont go anywhere near secular music stations, how do you biblically justify that? You speak as if this is a good thing.

[shygirl]

Interesting take on the purpose and design of marriage....but perhaps that's for another time...
Didn't say that was the ONLY purpose and design of marriage. Let's not put words in my mouth here. After reading all of this I really don't want to get involved with another "discussion" on this board.

[shygirl]

"This thread is seriously starting to disturb me.
Amen to that, but obviously not for the same reasons it is disturbing you.

[WeaselInYerFoot]

I wonder how the world was before CCM was even in the market. Poor poor primitive Christians, hard times indeed. :( In fact, I wonder if they were Christian at all since all they had were secular stuffs. What about the people outside of the US?? oh no!
;)

Some of you are acting like your relationship with Christ greatly depends on your music. What does that say about you?

[shygirl]

Some of you are acting like your relationship with Christ greatly depends on your music. What does that say about you?

I personally feel that my realtionship with Christ depends on the everyday choices that I make. Am I going to follow Him today or not? I don't feel like I am following him if I am making choices that go against what He is leading me to do. I would love to hear some of you arguing for secular music back that up with something scriptural. Until you do that, it is just your opinion. I am fine with all of having different opinions. God knows your heart and mine and that is all that matters. Maybe we should all just agree to disagree and let God be the one who shows us what is right.

[WeaselInYerFoot]

I personally feel that my realtionship with Christ depends on the everyday choices that I make. Am I going to follow Him today or not? I don't feel like I am following him if I am making choices that go against what He is leading me to do. I would love to hear some of you arguing for secular music back that up with something scriptural. Until you do that, it is just your opinion. I am fine with all of having different opinions. God knows your heart and mine and that is all that matters. Maybe we should all just agree to disagree and let God be the one who shows us what is right.

From a personal perspective that's perfectly fine. You should never go for what you think will hinder your relationship. But this was mainly for those who think that no one should never, in any way shape or form listen to secular music, and that secular music in itself is evil. People lived without CCM for centuries, and also heppened to enjoy music that wasn't christian. Keep in mind that their passion for music combined with their passion for God gave way to what we now call hymns. Without their interest in secular music, they would not have made such great pieces. Without King Davids earlier passion we would not have Psalms.

The same goes for CCM. The members of Third Day for example, carry a musical influence from secular groups as a result of their interests.

[shygirl]

I agree. Everything I have argued has been just my personal experience. If you say that listening to secular music does not hinder your walk with God, who am I to say that you are wrong. It is not my place to judge your choices. This is just what I believe and what I feel like is right for my life.

[KaraTopTitan]

While I definitely agree that every decision we make is impacted by our relationship with Jesus, I don't believe that it requires that everything we listen to be put out by the "Christian" music market. I've heard some songs put out in this industry that, had I not known who they were by, I would not have known the songs were "Christian". And I've heard some songs put out in the "Secular" music market, that have just as much (or more) positive influence than some in the "Christian" market. That being said, I think we should use caution when we put anything in our lives, whether it be the people we include in our lives, the music we listen to, the movies we go see, the TV shows we watch, etc. Everything has some impact in our lives. This is where we learn to use discernment in our lives, by figuring out what we need to leave out and what we can put in. I do not, however, agree that shutting ourselves out of this world (that we are supposed to be evangelizing)is the answer. Jesus did not shut himself off from the world. Instead, he put himself out there. People were free to tempt him, shout insults, and eventually kill him. So, we should put ourselves out there, but use our discernment so that we don't go to a place that God would not want us to be, or listen to something He wouldn't want us to listen to, etc, etc that would harm our walk with Him.

[Aaron]

I can't stand the vast majority of today's Christian music. (Besides Third Day of course). Most of it does not lift me up or make my day better. I listen to country music a lot and that brightens my day. I think it's sad when classic country is the only thing I can stand listening to, especially with all the Christian stations around.

[WeaselInYerFoot]

I can't stand the vast majority of today's Christian music. (Besides Third Day of course). Most of it does not lift me up or make my day better. I listen to country music a lot and that brightens my day. I think it's sad when classic country is the only thing I can stand listening to, especially with all the Christian stations around.

I agree with the bold, cringe at the rest :D:D:D

I honestly can't tell the difference between one new christian band or artist with another. They all sound the same and use the same cliches. If you give me two songs one from ... oh what have you.. david crowder band and from chris tomlin band I won't know which one sings which. Same thing with all the single artists. Sorry, but there's no variety for my tastes.

In addition to that, I'm afraid that the overload of worship music has desensitized my verbal expression. Now I pronounce the words without even thinking about them. I'd think that's more of a personal problem however, but it's kind of like watchig the Passion of Christ over and over until it just becomes entertainment.

[dpandtammy]

Interesting points, all.
Dare I mention the old cliche, "What would Jesus do?" Yeah, they made a lot of money off those bracelets. :) However, it is still a valid question. Would Jesus listen to most of what is called "country" music? No He would not.
Ok, yeah. Jesus hung with the sinners. He forgave us of all of our sinful ways. He did not tell us that we could continue to live our sinful lives. He, in fact told us we had to pick up our cross daily and follow Him. You know what that means? We sacrifice everything for Him. Everything. I put a part of what I have been through in the past few months in my first post in this thread. You know what I did after I got out of my depression? I re-dedicated my whole SELF to Jesus. I try to make all my decisions based on what Jesus would have me do. Am I perfect? Far from it. I don't always make the correct decisions. Not even most of the time. We, as Christians must do as He commands in Romans, and not be conformed to this world. He also commands us to walk worthy of our calling. He did call us. To serve Him only. If you are listening to secular music and not being convicted by it, then it is not for me to say that you should stop listening to it. That is between you and God.
There is a large variety of excellent music on the market that does bring Glory to God. If you cannot find anything that suits your taste, make your own. If you find yourself being "desensitized" by the repetition of worship music, maybe it is time to turn the music off and do a little praising God on your own.
I pray that someone, somewhere, gets a blessing out of what I am saying here. If you do not agree with what I am saying, that is your right. But let's not attack each others' beliefs because we don't agree. I do not think Jesus would be happy with that, no matter what kind of music we listen to.
God Bless all of you...

[bholdj]

Okay, I am really liking this last line a LOT. Get rid of it ALL and make a SERIOUS COMMITMENT to CHRIST.

wow, so its not by faith we are saved, but by what stations the buttons of our radio is on?

Wow, Im going to post some lyrics, ten bucks says you won't be able to guess who the band is.

I know that life ain't always good to you.
I've seen exactly what it’s put you through
Thrown you around and turned you upside down and so you
You got to thinking there was no way out
You started sinking and it pulled you down
It may be tough you've to get back up
Because you know that life ain't over yet
I'm here for you so don't forget
You can count on me
Cause’ I will carry you till you
Carry on

Anytime you need someone
Somebody strong to lean on
Well you can count on me
To hold you till the healing is done
And every time you fall apart
Well you can hide here in my arms
And you can count on me
To hold you till that feeling is gone

I wonder why nobody's waiting on you
I'd like to be the one to pull you through your darkest times
I'd love to be the light that finds you
I see a silver lining on your cloud
I'll pick you up whenever you fall down
Just take my hand and I will help you stand

Because you know that life ain't over yet
I'm here for you so don't forget
You can count on me
Cause’ I will carry you till you carry on
Anytime you need someone
Somebody strong to lean on
Well you can count on me to hold you till the healing is done
And every time you fall apart you can hide here in my arms
And you can count on me to hold you till that feeling is
Gone so you can live today
Seems so long to yesterday
Keep on counting on me to carry you till you carry on
Carry on

You know that life ain’t over yet
I’m here for you so don’t forget
You can count on me cause I will carry you till you carry on

Anytime you need someone
Somebody strong to lean on
Well you can count on me to hold you till that healing is done
And every time you fall apart
You can hide here in my arms
And you can count on me to hold you till that feeling is gone
Remember life ain’t over yet
I’m here for you so don’t forget
That you can count on me to hold you till that feeling is gone
Remember life ain’t over yet
I’m here for you so don’t forget
That you can count on me to hold you till that feeling is gone

I will save the trouble, the band is Default (gasp, groan, :eek: ). Yet this song God used to help me one day when things wern't exactly going well. Some secular music is not bad you know, Keith Urban, Brad Paisley, Default, and Alan Jackson are among the christian individuals who shine brightly in the secular world.

Having a relationship with God is not about losing evreything you own, for example, do you really want to live in a cave? Its about keeping what God would have you keep to give Him glory. If its a C.D, a dog, or a 15 year old car. If its Gods will you keep such things so as to be a light before all men, then it must be so.

Give up secular music, and make a serious commitment to Christ? Ill keep my relationship with Christ and listen to music that involves death, suffering, as well as life and hope. "Be in the world but not of it."

[shygirl]

In defense of dpandt, this has nothing to do with salvation! Nobody ever said if you listen to secular music then you are not saved. What she was saying (and this was actually quoted from someone else in a much earlier post)was you cannot make a serious commitment to Christ until ou surrender your whole life to Him. Right?

[bholdj]

In defense of dpandt, this has nothing to do with salvation! Nobody ever said if you listen to secular music then you are not saved.

No he just said "give up secular music and make a serious commitment to Christ." How does that statement sound on a board full of Christians?

[Aaron]

Interesting points, all.
Dare I mention the old cliche, "What would Jesus do?" Yeah, they made a lot of money off those bracelets. :) However, it is still a valid question. Would Jesus listen to most of what is called "country" music? No He would not.
Ok, yeah. Jesus hung with the sinners. He forgave us of all of our sinful ways. He did not tell us that we could continue to live our sinful lives. He, in fact told us we had to pick up our cross daily and follow Him. You know what that means? We sacrifice everything for Him. Everything. I put a part of what I have been through in the past few months in my first post in this thread. You know what I did after I got out of my depression? I re-dedicated my whole SELF to Jesus. I try to make all my decisions based on what Jesus would have me do. Am I perfect? Far from it. I don't always make the correct decisions. Not even most of the time. We, as Christians must do as He commands in Romans, and not be conformed to this world. He also commands us to walk worthy of our calling. He did call us. To serve Him only. If you are listening to secular music and not being convicted by it, then it is not for me to say that you should stop listening to it. That is between you and God.
There is a large variety of excellent music on the market that does bring Glory to God. If you cannot find anything that suits your taste, make your own. If you find yourself being "desensitized" by the repetition of worship music, maybe it is time to turn the music off and do a little praising God on your own.
I pray that someone, somewhere, gets a blessing out of what I am saying here. If you do not agree with what I am saying, that is your right. But let's not attack each others' beliefs because we don't agree. I do not think Jesus would be happy with that, no matter what kind of music we listen to.
God Bless all of you...
I am not convicted by listening to country music. There are many songs that are spiritually more uplifting than today's Christian music for me (When I Get Where I'm Going, by Brad Paisley and Dolly Parton, Believe by Brooks and Dunn, Jesus Take the Wheel, by Carrie Underwood, etc...). I am not about to quit listening because I do not feel that it is wrong. I admit there are bad songs but I don't listen to them.

[shygirl]

It was quoted earlier that "Alan Jackson shone bright". I don't see Jesus in this Alan Jackson song:
The sun is hot and that old clock is movin' slow,
An' so am I.
Work day passes like molasses in wintertime,
But it's July.
I'm gettin' paid by the hour, an' older by the minute.
My boss just pushed me over the limit.
I'd like to call him somethin',
I think I'll just call it a day.

Pour me somethin' tall an' strong,
Make it a "Hurricane" before I go insane.
It's only half-past twelve but I don't care.
It's five o'clock somewhere.

Oh, this lunch break is gonna take all afternoon,
An' half the night.
Tomorrow mornin', I know there'll be hell to pay,
Hey, but that's all right.
I ain't had a day off now in over a year.
Our Jamaican vacation's gonna start right here.
Hit the 'phones for me,
You can tell 'em I just sailed away.

An' pour me somethin' tall an' strong,
Make it a "Hurricane" before I go insane.
It's only half-past twelve but I don't care.
It's five o'clock somewhere.

I could pay off my tab, pour myself in a cab,
An' be back to work before two.
At a moment like this, I can't help but wonder,
What would Jimmy Buffet do?

Funny you should ask that because I'd say:
Pour me somethin' tall an' strong,
Make it a "Hurricane" before I go insane.
It's only half-past twelve but I don't care.

Pour me somethin' tall an' strong,
Make it a "Hurricane" before I go insane.
It's only half-past twelve but I don't care.
He don't care.
I don't care.
It's five o'clock somewhere.

What time zone am on? What country am I in?
It doesn't matter, it's five o'clock somewhere.
It's always on five in Margaritaville, come to think of it.
Yeah, I heard that.
You been there haven't you.
Yessir.
I seen your boat there.
I've been to Margaritaville a few times.
All right, that's good.
Stumbled all the way back.
OK. Just wanna make sure you can keep it between the navigational beacons.
Bring the booze, I tell you.
All right. Well, it's five o'clock. Let's go somewhere.
I'm ready, crank it up.
Let's get out of here.
I'm gone.
Let's get out of here.

[dpandtammy]

To be honest, I would never have guessed who wrote that song because I have never heard of them. That is so not the point.
Look, I know there are others on this board who agree with me... and it really doesn't matter. I am stating my opinions just like everyone else.
If you will read my last post, you will see WHY I listen to what I listen to...

[shygirl]

No he just said "give up secular music and make a serious commitment to Christ." How does that statement sound on a board full of Christians?

I know that what is being said is being led by God and I don't think it is right of us as Christians to criticize that.

[bholdj]

[QUOTE=shygirl]It was quoted earlier that "Alan Jackson shone bright". I don't see Jesus in this Alan Jackson song:


Sounds to me like your suggesting Alan Jackson's music is not christian. Have you picked up "precious memories" yet?

Also, what do you mean by your statement "I don't see Jesus in this song?" Are you implying the song is not Christian? That Jackson is not Christian?

[shygirl]

No I am not in a place to judge whether or not Alan Jackson is a Christian. God is the only one can judge that. I also respect him for makeing the stand to put out a Christian album. My mom bought it. I am only saying that I could not sing or listen to this song knowing that God was listening to me. I would be very embarrassed and it is an Alan Jackson song. I don't think it is very "bright".

[bholdj]

To be honest, I would never have guessed who wrote that song because I have never heard of them. That is so not the point.
Look, I know there are others on this board who agree with me... and it really doesn't matter. I am stating my opinions just like everyone else.
If you will read my last post, you will see WHY I listen to what I listen to...

I have read your posts. Your sincerity for God shines brightly, in fact, I was in your shoes not to long ago (im 25).

I guess for me, it all started when I heard some artist sing "I can sing of your love." Powerful song correct? Now, go through 2 grandparents passing away, my father being put in a hospital for drinking abuse, and both my brothers getting married and 1 of them moving, plus my transition from highschool to college. How in heavens name could i sing "I could sing of your love" in a genuine fashion after all that? I decided right then and there, that Thirdday, a few other CCM people (namley Kutless, and Cadmeon's call) would be it for me in Christian music. All the rest in my view I listened to just for entertainment.

After going through so much tradegy and death, no way could i sing such awesome songs like "I can sing of your love" with feeling anymore. For two reasons

1. Evrey artist in the CCM industry records it at one time or another
2. In my opinion, it was refreshing to hear songs on the country/rock market were other people went through similar experinces than I did!

Therefore, I now limit thirdday to serious times when i want to worship the Risen Christ. My musical entertainment, or my musical tastes now go from nickelback, to default, to Keith Urban, to Travis Tritt, etc. Why? Because the above artists and bands have at least 1 of their members profess to be Christians. But they also play music that sings about death, pride, drinking, etc. To me, thats real music to listen to. Hearing a Christian sing about "tonight i want to cry" lets me know that their are Christians who cry, and in fact live.

Unfortunatley I come across harsh on the boards latley, my apologies, i like to get after it on subjects like these thats all. Write me back :D

[cheewiee]

Here is what we need to consider when it comes down to "secular music".

Music, like TV, Video Games, Movies, Books, are all soul food. It's what what we feed our minds, wills, and emotions...

If we eat a steady diet of nonwholesome foods, it drags our body down... the same thing goes for our soul. That doesn't mean that twinkies are always a nono.. It means that when we make twinkies our primary diet source, we become unhealthy..

I believe the same principle applies to our soul... The fact is secular media is secular media, weather it's music, or tv, or movies, or books. If you belive it's ok to watch a secular TV show, yet believe that secular music is somehow bad, your are not being consistant...

[bholdj]

No I am not in a place to judge whether or not Alan Jackson is a Christian. God is the only one can judge that. I also respect him for makeing the stand to put out a Christian album. My mom bought it. I am only saying that I could not sing or listen to this song knowing that God was listening to me. I would be very embarrassed and it is an Alan Jackson song. I don't think it is very "bright".

see my post to tamny. You both are really cool people, its nice to see believers that much on fire for God.

My experinces in music have led me to many places in my faith, im sorry i didn't mention this sooner. As I told tamny, some things have happened to me that have reevaluated my walk with Jesus. I understand its diff for different people :D .

[dpandtammy]

there is a post on another thread that says "garbage in, garbage out". Well put. This is the AC/DC thread, which is actually a conversation very similar to this.
Look. I don't think that my saying "let's get rid of all the secular music and make a serious commitment to God" is wrong. For that matter, let's get rid of all the GARBAGE and be serious for God. What is wrong with that? Is God not worthy of all of us? Everything. We have got to get serious for God. Our country is a mess... and that is a discussion for another time... but should we, as Christians, not be ready to make a serious move for God? Maybe I am an over the top Jesus Freak. That is fine with me. No higher compliment could ever be paid. Romans 12 says we are to present our bodies as a living sacrifice, Holy, acceptable to God. There is nothing more important to me. Once you have tasted God, you cannot go back. You canot help but be a Jesus Freak. You know, even this whole conversation is probably not acceptable. I have said my peace, and I am not going to be swayed another way. If you are not being convinced to follow God closer, then all my words are in vain here.
Blessings to all of you~~
Tammy

[Howlin' Wolf]

The Raconteurs Have Arrived!

[WeaselInYerFoot]

Interesting points, all.
Dare I mention the old cliche, "What would Jesus do?" Yeah, they made a lot of money off those bracelets. :) However, it is still a valid question. Would Jesus listen to most of what is called "country" music? No He would not.


Did he listen to CCM back then?

[bholdj]

there is a post on another thread that says "garbage in, garbage out". Well put. This is the AC/DC thread, which is actually a conversation very similar to this.
Look. I don't think that my saying "let's get rid of all the secular music and make a serious commitment to God" is wrong. For that matter, let's get rid of all the GARBAGE and be serious for God.

Ok, so throw away your food, car, clothes, christian cd's, your house, your shoes, your toothbrush, evreything else you own, because evreything you have is from the world.

Tammy your a good person, but I feel like you don't get it. Christian cd's are made in the world! Evreything you own is of the world. What you are asking undermines Gods mission, even Jesus ate "worldy bread", sailed on a "worldy boat", heck he even started a fire using "worldy" firewood.

Its either/or, not both and sweet heart.

[shygirl]

As I read your reply I got very emotional. You have been through a lot in your life. I have been through bad experiences also. I won't bore you with them now. If you read my previous posts, I think you know where I am coming from. I have never said all secular music was bad or all "christian" music was good. My whole point is that I don't get to listen to music much and when I do, I would rather listen to music about Jesus. I was drawn to Christian music over 10 years ago by my husband. I listened to everything from Kiss to Alice Cooper before that. That was before I was saved though. Since then it just really hasn't been a question for me. I totally agree that there are some secular songs that touch me as well ( Jesus take the wheel, for example). The only reason I joined this discussion in the first place was because a dear friend was getting attacked and I wanted to support them. After I started reading some of the statements just really bothered me. I just don't think as Christians we should bash each other for sharing what we believe God is saying to us. I appreciate your honesty.

[WeaselInYerFoot]

The Raconteurs Have Arrived!

Their website is the best thing evarrr!

[bholdj]

The Raconteurs Have Arrived!

bout bloody time. Wanna go secular with me? I was just putting out my application to become a secular person :D and trade my christian shoes for my wordly shoes.

[cheewiee]

there is a post on another thread that says "garbage in, garbage out". Well put. This is the AC/DC thread, which is actually a conversation very similar to this.
Look. I don't think that my saying "let's get rid of all the secular music and make a serious commitment to God" is wrong.... ...
Blessings to all of you~~
Tammy

So then, do you abstain from secular television as well?

[bholdj]

As I read your reply I got very emotional. You have been through a lot in your life. I have been through bad experiences also. I won't bore you with them now. If you read my previous posts, I think you know where I am coming from. I

After I started reading some of the statements just really bothered me. I just don't think as Christians we should bash each other for sharing what we believe God is saying to us. I appreciate your honesty.

And we both are better for it :D

[dpandtammy]

Here is what we need to consider when it comes down to "secular music".

Music, like TV, Video Games, Movies, Books, are all soul food. It's what what we feed our minds, wills, and emotions...

If we eat a steady diet of nonwholesome foods, it drags our body down... the same thing goes for our soul. That doesn't mean that twinkies are always a nono.. It means that when we make twinkies our primary diet source, we become unhealthy..

I believe the same principle applies to our soul... The fact is secular media is secular media, weather it's music, or tv, or movies, or books. If you belive it's ok to watch a secular TV show, yet believe that secular music is somehow bad, your are not being consistant...

Very well said. As I said earlier, if you are not convicted by listening to certain things, I cannot judge you. I cannot justify to myself listening to anything that does not glorify God. But maybe I am in a different place than others... (I did not say better, I said different.) I did actually have the same thoughts about consistency. To be perfectly honest, I do watch TV that I would not consider to be glorifying God. Something me and my family are working hard on at this very moment. :) I do believe that books, tv, everything should be God-centered. It is my reasonable service. The least I can do.

[bholdj]

(I did not say better, I said different.)

Very classy of you to say, my experince has been diff with others who believe what you do about Christian music, thank you :D

[cheewiee]

Very well said. As I said earlier, if you are not convicted by listening to certain things, I cannot judge you. I cannot justify to myself listening to anything that does not glorify God. But maybe I am in a different place than others... (I did not say better, I said different.) I did actually have the same thoughts about consistency. To be perfectly honest, I do watch TV that I would not consider to be glorifying God. Something me and my family are working hard on at this very moment. :) I do believe that books, tv, everything should be God-centered. It is my reasonable service. The least I can do.

The fact is, we are in this world, but not of it. Christ did not shutter himself from worldly influences, and neither should we. I would agree however that christians tend to take more from worldly influences, than they do Godly ones... but that is a matter of personal conviction.

[dpandtammy]

And let me just add this quickly. I think some of the things I have said here are being chopped and twisted. I am exiting this convo simply because nothing I say is being taken at face value here. I am a woman who loves God. I do whatever I can to please God. I am not here to make a best friend. I have one already. If you don't like my opinions, that is your prerogative. I am not asking you to share my opinions. I am asking for the same respect that everyone else is given when voicing their opinions. Apparently God is not convicting you of the same things as me, and that is fine. But until He does, my words definitely are in vain.

[dpandtammy]

Very classy of you to say, my experince has been diff with others who believe what you do about Christian music, thank you :D

Thank you. I never claim to be better than anyone. I am only who God makes me. Nothing more. :cool:

[cheewiee]

And let me just add this quickly. I think some of the things I have said here are being chopped and twisted. I am exiting this convo simply because nothing I say is being taken at face value here. I am a woman who loves God. I do whatever I can to please God. I am not here to make a best friend. I have one already. If you don't like my opinions, that is your prerogative. I am not asking you to share my opinions. I am asking for the same respect that everyone else is given when voicing their opinions. Apparently God is not convicting you of the same things as me, and that is fine. But until He does, my words definitely are in vain.

Is it possible he is convicting you of certain things, and not others because of something he is working in you?

The fact is, Paul clearly points out that not everyone will share the same convictions. Look at what he said about eating meat sacrificed to Idols..

Think about that for a moment... There were people who considered these Idols to be gods.. divine creatures, and that people sacrifieced animals to these supposed divine creatures. Paul said it was ok to eat the meat sacrificed to these idols, HOWEVER, he went on to say that there are those who would be convicted about eating the meat.

He goes on to say, A man who is free to eat should not force a man who is not free to eat to eat, because it voilates his concious and he is in sin...

He also says the reverse is true... We cannot expect others to follow our convictions... We also must not let our individual convictions lead us to believe we are further in our walk with God than others... (I am not saying you are) because that leads to pride...

[dpandtammy]

Is it possible he is convicting you of certain things, and not others because of something he is working in you?

The fact is, Paul clearly points out that not everyone will share the same convictions. Look at what he said about eating meat sacrificed to Idols..

Think about that for a moment... There were people who considered these Idols to be gods.. divine creatures, and that people sacrifieced animals to these supposed divine creatures. Paul said it was ok to eat the meat sacrificed to these idols, HOWEVER, he went on to say that there are those who would be convicted about eating the meat.

He goes on to say, A man who is free to eat should not force a man who is not free to eat to eat, because it voilates his concious and he is in sin...

He also says the reverse is true... We cannot expect others to follow our convictions... We also must not let our individual convictions lead us to believe we are further in our walk with God than others... (I am not saying you are) because that leads to pride...

Yeah, I do think that is possible. In fact, I think that is what I said in the post you quoted from me. I do not think I am further in my walk than others , in fact I think I have made that clear. It is probably the opposite if you want to get right down to it. As I said, I don't think I am better than anyone and I don't claim to be "holier", I am simply sharing my opinions, as is everyone else here. Do I come off to think that of myself? Honestly. DO I? I am not asking sarcastically, I really would like to know. If I sound like it is my way or the highway, I apologize for that, because that is not me. Anyone who knows me, knows that it is quite the opposite.

[mat1583]

First, I must say wow. 13 pages is impressive. Unfortunately I haven't really kept up with this thread and thus can't take the time to read through all 13 pages. I suppose I can do what others have and post my perspective on this as I have done in the past when these topics come up. so here goes...

First and foremost I view music simply as just another form of art & entertainment. Like the photos we take, paintings artists paint, poems we read- to me music is another form of human expression. I do not limit art forms to merely Christian aspects. When I go to an art gallery, I don't expect or really care to look at just Christian paintings. When I view photos, I don't expect to see just Christian-centered photos. With music, I don't always listen to something that's God-centered. I don't read just God-centered books.

When you read a story in the newspaper or a magazine, it's not always glorifying God is it? I don't limit my reading (fictional and non-fictional) to only works that glorify God. I don't believe God has called us to do that either. I could see a monk doing this, but you would have to hide in a cave or monastery to seperate yourself so much from the world.

Just like other art forms though, we can read/see/listen to things that might cause us to stumble as Christians, and thus we should try to avoid those certain things if it indeed causes us to stumble. For instance, pretty much every Christian knows that it is not a good idea to look at porn, yet a mature Christian can look at the old Greek and Roman art that depicts human nature, specifically nudity, and not even be close to stumbling. There's a discernment that must be present in all Christians. If your discernment is drawn at listening to no music that doesn't glorify God, then that is how you've chosen to live, and I greatly respect that. For those Christians that do listen to 'secular' music like me, our level of discernment is just a tad different.

...and I think that pretty much sums it up for me :)

-washboard

[dpandtammy]

I have also been reading the AC/DC thread...
Here is an excellent quote from PC Gomer...


"But I do think that some types of music can open us up to certain feelings and emotions. Even sometimes when we dont realize it. Music is one of the keys that opens the door to our heart. Out of every medium I think it has the biggest influence on us(in my opinion).
That is why we as Christians should be careful what we listen to(I am speaking for myself anyway)."


Well said, PC, wherever you are......:D

[cheewiee]

Yeah, I do think that is possible. In fact, I think that is what I said in the post you quoted from me. I do not think I am further in my walk than others , in fact I think I have made that clear. It is probably the opposite if you want to get right down to it. As I said, I don't think I am better than anyone and I don't claim to be "holier", I am simply sharing my opinions, as is everyone else here. Do I come off to think that of myself? Honestly. DO I? I am not asking sarcastically, I really would like to know. If I sound like it is my way or the highway, I apologize for that, because that is not me. Anyone who knows me, knows that it is quite the opposite.

Generally, it is very easy to come off as holier than though when talking about personal convictions, ESPECIALLY when discussing them with somone who disagrees with them... Remember, than on the Internet, there is no tone, sometimes sarcasim can be missed, and emotion is left out altogether... So people only hear how they read it in their head. This is why when discussing matters of Personal Conviciton, I either steer clear, or am VERY careful on wording...

I do belive I could see how somone might view your posts as coming off as being holier than though... but at the same time, I also see where you belive you have taken steps to assure that don't....

In either case, whenever discussing these matters, if you feel somone is misconstruing your words, they probibly are, Unintentionally, but they are nontheless... The responsibilty falls on you to make yourself clear...

but don't sweat it, if you do feel like somone is reading something that your not saying, instead of feeling slighted, pause and think on how to clarify your thoughts so they come off how you intend them to come off....

[shygirl]

I have also been reading the AC/DC thread...
Here is an excellent quote from PC Gomer...


"But I do think that some types of music can open us up to certain feelings and emotions. Even sometimes when we dont realize it. Music is one of the keys that opens the door to our heart. Out of every medium I think it has the biggest influence on us(in my opinion).
That is why we as Christians should be careful what we listen to(I am speaking for myself anyway)."


Well said, PC, wherever you are......:D
Very Good Quote!!! That is my whole thing. I would rather listen to music that focuses my thoughts on my Saviour than on other things. I think about what I listen to. Maybe I am the only one on here that is impressionable and easily influenced.
I also do not think you sound "holier than thou". I do however think it is being pinned on you. I think you have just as much right to voice your opinions as everybody else. No matter how radical and out there they are ;) !! Kidding of course, please note the sarcasm!!!

[cheewiee]

I have also been reading the AC/DC thread...
Here is an excellent quote from PC Gomer...


"...Out of every medium I think it has the biggest influence on us(in my opinion).
That is why we as Christians should be careful what we listen to(I am speaking for myself anyway)..."


Well said, PC, wherever you are......:D

Well, his Opinion may be valid for himself, but it doesn't necessarly apply to everyone... I am honestly more influenced by what I sea then what I hear... I would almost guarantee that MOST men are more easly influenced, and likely to sin based on what they see vs. what they hear.

Most courses in platform phsycology will tell you that A minister that can visually communicate and connect with his audience tends to be regarded as a more successfull speaker than one that can only audibly connect with his audience...

[Healing Oil]

I can't stand the vast majority of today's Christian music. (Besides Third Day of course). Most of it does not lift me up or make my day better. I listen to country music a lot and that brightens my day. I think it's sad when classic country is the only thing I can stand listening to, especially with all the Christian stations around.
I absolutely agree. Dont get me wrong, I try and listen to as much CCM as I can. I am just more connected with other artists.

shygirl- You may not have specifically told us that it was wrong to listen to secular music, but that thought has been greatly implied (IMO) in this thread.

The comment about making a "serious" commitment to Christ by doing away with anything secular isnt totally a matter of salvation. It basically stated that I and any who listen to any secular music are less commited to the same God that you are. And as you said, no one can be the judge of that.

What it comes down to for me is that I dont really like CCM. It doesnt mean Im going to replace it with horse poop for music.

[dpandtammy]

I absolutely agree. Dont get me wrong, I try and listen to as much CCM as I can. I am just more connected with other artists.

shygirl- You may not have specifically told us that it was wrong to listen to secular music, but that thought has been greatly implied (IMO) in this thread.

The comment about making a "serious" commitment to Christ by doing away with anything secular isnt totally a matter of salvation. It basically stated that I and any who listen to wholesome secular music (and yes, it IS out there) are less commited to the same God that you are. And as you said, you can not be the judge of that.

What it comes down to for me is that I dont really like CCM. It doesnt mean Im going to replace it with horse poop for music.

See I have not questioned anyone's salvation. In fact, I have repeatedly stated that it is not my place to judge anyone if you are not being convicted of the same things...just stating my opinions. (IMO) :D
I started posting on this thread because it is a subject I feel strongly about. I love the boards, because it is a great place to learn from each other...IMO. I have learned from some, and hopefully, some people have learned from me. If not, that is fine. I hope that the fact that we do not agree on this one subject does not take away from the love that we have for God, which I have seen is evident in everyone's posts. We are all very passionate about what we believe and that is great.(IMO)
****Even if you DON'T agree with ME!!!**** :D

[Healing Oil]

See I have not questioned anyone's salvation. In fact, I have repeatedly stated that it is not my place to judge anyone if you are not being convicted of the same things...just stating my opinions. (IMO) :D
I started posting on this thread because it is a subject I feel strongly about. I love the boards, because it is a great place to learn from each other...IMO. I have learned from some, and hopefully, some people have learned from me. If not, that is fine. I hope that the fact that we do not agree on this one subject does not take away from the love that we have for God, which I have seen is evident in everyone's posts. We are all very passionate about what we believe and that is great.(IMO)
****Even if you DON'T agree with ME!!!**** :DI never thought you questioned my salvation. But can you understand why you and mikedevilsfan (sp?) seemed to question our sincereity to God?

[dpandtammy]

I never thought you questioned my salvation. But can you understand why you and mikedevilsfan (sp?) seemed to question our sincereity to God?
Actually, yes I do, IMO, understand that now. I do tend to forget what someone so kindly reminded me... there is no "tone" in email, or forums, and it is difficult at times to tell that someone is not really just ripping you apart. In fact, I kinda felt a little ripped apart myself.
So, I will try to remember in the future to not even have the appearance of questioning someone's devotion to God. It still does not change what I so STRONGLY believe, but as was stated earlier, we are not all convicted of the same things at the same times. Maybe someone is being convicted that they should shave their head, and I would have to stand firmly against that, because God is just not telling me that right now!! :D

[shygirl]

I absolutely agree. Dont get me wrong, I try and listen to as much CCM as I can. I am just more connected with other artists.

shygirl- You may not have specifically told us that it was wrong to listen to secular music, but that thought has been greatly implied (IMO) in this thread.

The comment about making a "serious" commitment to Christ by doing away with anything secular isnt totally a matter of salvation. It basically stated that I and any who listen to any secular music are less commited to the same God that you are. And as you said, no one can be the judge of that.

What it comes down to for me is that I dont really like CCM. It doesnt mean Im going to replace it with horse poop for music.
I think this is getting really old. We are all basically repeating the same thing over again. I have said over and over that the opinions I am stating are for me personally. Me telling you to listen only to Christian music is just as wrong as any of you telling me I am wrong for only listening to Christian music. I think it is understood on here that nobody is judging anyone else although there have been posts where I felt like my character was being attacked.
I just do not feel like it is right for one Christian to attack another sharing what they believe God is speaking to them. The bottom line is that it is between you and God. For the record, I also do not listen to the christian music that fits into the CCM mold. The music they play on the radio is not my favorite either. I prefer things like Kutless and Switchfoot. We all have to find our own place. If yours is secular than that is between you and God. Unless I am addressed anymore on here, I am out. This is getting very old and repetitive. Thank you all for the discussion!

[Healing Oil]

Actually, yes I do, IMO, understand that now. I do tend to forget what someone so kindly reminded me... there is no "tone" in email, or forums, and it is difficult at times to tell that someone is not really just ripping you apart. In fact, I kinda felt a little ripped apart myself.
So, I will try to remember in the future to not even have the appearance of questioning someone's devotion to God. It still does not change what I so STRONGLY believe, but as was stated earlier, we are not all convicted of the same things at the same times. Maybe someone is being convicted that they should shave their head, and I would have to stand firmly against that, because God is just not telling me that right now!! :D
Good, then we agree :)

I really wish I could remember who this was, but not to long ago (very recent actually) a woman who frequents these boards felt a conviction to shave her head completely. I think she donated it (Im assuming, or else she is nuts! :p ). What a woman!

It is just interesting that you used that example.

shygirl- I dont think anyone here was personally attacking anyone else. I think we were defending ourselves from the thought that someone might possibly feel we arent commited enough to Christ if we listen to secular. It seems like that issue has been taken care of now. A misjudgment in words, right? I never called mike or tammy a poo poo head or anything, ;)

[dpandtammy]

Good, then we agree :)

I really wish I could remember who this was, but not to long ago (very recent actually) a woman who frequents these boards felt a conviction to shave her head completely. I think she donated it (Im assuming, or else she is nuts! :p ). What a woman!

It is just interesting that you used that example.

;)

No, you have GOT to be kidding!!! I had no idea. I was trying to think of something really way out there that someone could be convicted to do. (not bad of course, just different) WOW! I hope God never convicts me to do that... but if he does, of course..... :(

[shygirl]

Good, then we agree :)
shygirl- I dont think anyone here was personally attacking anyone else. I think we were defending ourselves from the thought that someone might possibly feel we arent commited enough to Christ if we listen to secular. It seems like that issue has been taken care of now. A misjudgment in words, right? I never called mike or tammy a poo poo head or anything, ;)

I know Tammy personally and sometimes she is kind of a poo poo head! :D Just Kidding!! I still love ya!!

[dpandtammy]

I know Tammy personally and sometimes she is kind of a poo poo head! :D Just Kidding!! I still love ya!!

That's okay, I LIKE being a poo poo head!! Maybe I will change my gomer name to "poo poo head"!!!

[Healing Oil]

No, you have GOT to be kidding!!! I had no idea. I was trying to think of something really way out there that someone could be convicted to do. (not bad of course, just different) WOW! I hope God never convicts me to do that... but if he does, of course..... :(
Me too. My hair is considerably my best feature.

Oh Lord, I swear I just jinxed myself.

[dpandtammy]

Me too. My hair is considerably my best feature.

Oh Lord, I swear I just jinxed myself.

yeah, when you do shave your head, I want pics!!!!! :p

[bholdj]

awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww, so much love on this thread now :D .

I wanna hug *hugs evreybody* :D

[Evanescence]

Please allow me to thank God for the millions in this world who have been blessed by someone who isn't a Christian. Praise God for people who give to charities, who drink beer, and who smoke. They aren't all Christians, though some are, but they are all contributing to society as we know it. And without them, people like Mike would have no one to compare themselves to and feel so justified in bringing their message against "secular" music.

Just remember, to everyone else out there, Christianity is secular. Would you prefer them to judge "christian" music as evil?

True, not all music is God glorifying. But doesn't the bible say that all things work together for the good of those that love Christ and are called for His pourpose. All things includes everything, things we can understand and those we can't. God is outside of our box. He can work through satanists or atheists or whatever and whomever He wants.

I'm quite happy listening to any music. My reason isn't so much for the music itself, but I want to understand what makes others tick. How can we be effective at seeking and saving the lost if we are too busy sitting in our churches reading the bible and not getting out into the real world. My friends, the battle is outside of the church. Sinners don't need judgement, that will come at the right time. Sinners need love and acceptance.

Lets not get legalistic. Instead, lets walk a mile in the other person's shoes. Many have been hurt by the church (or more realistically, people from the church). Lets heal those hurts and walk alongside them. And if it means we might be exposed to some rough language or heavy music, or both, than so be it. Remember, we have Jesus with us, and in Him NOTHING is impossible. We have no need to fear the evil one!

Well said!!

How can we witness to others about the good news if we are isolated from them so much, act stuffy and are a pain in the butt? I wonder how many people REALLY understand the way the Holy Spirit works at times. With the Holy Spirit in us, we CAN watch virtually anything or listen to virtually anything and it doesn't affect us. Plus, we can assoiciate and deal with people on all levels and not get sucked into their world. We are warriors for God. We NEED to be on a down to earth, cool level with all people and ditch the holier than though ideas. It's counter productive.

[Evanescence]

I read most of this thread a few days ago, and I took some time to pray, and have surgery, and now I am led to post my opinion here, even though if you have been around a while, you probably already know.
I will start by confessing here, publicly, that in the past 3 months or so, I have listened to a lot of secular music. Even bought a few CDs, was convinced I wasn't doing anything wrong... God seriously convicted me of this just a couple of weeks ago, when I was driving down the road, and my daughter (11) asked me WHY I was listening to music that does not lift up God in any way. See, since she was born, we have NEVER listened to anything but "Christian" music. I found myself trying to talk myself out of everything I have taught her from birth. I have since retracted that, and told her I was completely WRONG about the whole thing.
So anyway, I am a Christian. Along with the title of "Christian" comes a responsibility. (a lot of them, actually) But what I am trying to say in this case is, as Christians, we have a responsibility to surround ourselves with things that bring Glory to God Himself. Not only does it help us out, it serves as a wonderful example to our lost friends, when they get in our cars and we are blaring "How great is our God" instead of "Let's get drunk and be somebody". Listening to God-centered music gives us an opportunity to have Worship in our cars, on the way to work, or the grocery store, or whatever. It is a wonderful start to be reminded on the way to work how great our God is, kinda starts you off on the right note.
I have been hit with the fact that not all artists who sing this music are actually "Christians". Well, they will have to answer to that on judgment day, not us. If a song makes me think about and worship God right from the beginning of the day, then I will listen to it over a country or whatever song anyday.
So let me tell you what happened when I was NOT listening to the right things.I became depressed. I was not happy with my appearance, my home, my job, I even tried to get my husband to take me outta our church, that we LOVE, because there was just too much conviction there. I cannot tell you that it was ALL completely due to the music, but it was a major player. I became complacent. I even liked the song "Let's get drunk and...." . But I let too much of satan get in. And that is precisely why I am so against secular music. Satan will use whatever he can. music is to me what football is to many men. I LOVE it! I am always listening to music. And whatever you allow in your mind will take over, little by little. And you will wake up and find yourself in a place you don't want to be. I challenge anyone who says music is not that big of a deal to listen to nothing except "Christian" music for a week. No country, no rock, nothing. Not even those classics that "are not so bad". Just listen to music about God. See if it makes a difference. See if you can go back. Maybe you can. But I don't know many people who are willing to take that challenge....everyone that I have talked to about this, and asked them to take this challenge, if they were truly devoted to God, they could not go back. Just try it. PM me if you do this, and keep me posted...
~~Blessings~~
Tammy

I'm going to make a historic and contraversial statement on this quote. Some may agree and some may not.

Being called a Jesus Freak is NEVER a compliment and being so radical, extreme and pius is a total detriment to the kingdom. It's everything Christ stood against and everything that put him on the cross. There is an underlying message in his sacrifice AGAINST the insanity of organized, extreme, pius, close-minded religion.

As a Christian, I would be embarraced and re-think my faith after being called a Jesus Freak or Religious nut or that I am in a cult. Especially if it was by someone who is credible and/or stable minded. I would be ashamed.

There is a fine line between radical, fundamental Christianity and INSANITY. I have met many people over the years and more extreme they are, the more issues I can see. If you carefully dissect some of these radical, charismatics you often see deep rooted emotional and mental problems. They are also easily sucked into these groups and are often weak minded and gullible. Extremism on all levels operates in this way...it looks for these types of people.....they prey on it. Islam, Animal Rights, Synn-fine, Vegans and other cults are all classic examples. Sure, radical Christians are non-threatening but the fact is that they drive away more people than they recruit.

There is no such thing as "Christian" music....only music. Labels are things we invent and the lines that separate them are never clear. I asked the question, "How does anyone know who is a Christian and who isn't?" Because they confess they are? It's a good indicator but in the grand scheme, means nothing.

I have been involved with the music business for 6 yrs and a fan for all of my life. I am distrubed by the newest trend of dark and often evil rock that is is being put out and kids are getting into. Gangsta Rap is another example and is clearly destructive. However, to label all music as evil is ubsurd and to make the assumption that listening to only "Christian" music will get you closer to God is a farse.

DPand Tammy said in the above post and others, that we should only listen to music that glorifies God. How and what does that mean? Who and How makes that determination? Define "Music that glorifies God?"

I think a lot of radical Christians think they are being led by God when in fact they are brainwahsed by someone or many people into a lifestyle and way of thinking. We have to becareful with thinking we are convicted when in fact we are so gullible, we are sheep being led to the slaughter.

All things in balance for the betterment of the Kingdom....:cool:

E

[Pouye]

I'm going to make a historic and contraversial statement on this quote. Some may agree and some may not.

Being called a Jesus Freak is NEVER a compliment and being so radical, extreme and pius is a total detriment to the kingdom. It's everything Christ stood against and everything that put him on the cross. There is an underlying message in his sacrifice AGAINST the insanity of organized, extreme, pius, close-minded religion.

As a Christian, I would be embarraced and re-think my faith after being called a Jesus Freak or Religious nut or that I am in a cult. Especially if it was by someone who is credible and/or stable minded. I would be ashamed.

There is a fine line between radical, fundamental Christianity and INSANITY. I have met many people over the years and more extreme they are, the more issues I can see. If you carefully dissect some of these radical, charismatics you often see deep rooted emotional and mental problems. They are also easily sucked into these groups and are often weak minded and gullible. Extremism on all levels operates in this way...it looks for these types of people.....they prey on it. Islam, Animal Rights, Synn-fine, Vegans and other cults are all classic examples. Sure, radical Christians are non-threatening but the fact is that they drive away more people than they recruit.

There is no such thing as "Christian" music....only music. Labels are things we invent and the lines that separate them are never clear. I asked the question, "How does anyone know who is a Christian and who isn't?" Because they confess they are? It's a good indicator but in the grand scheme, means nothing.

I have been involved with the music business for 6 yrs and a fan for all of my life. I am distrubed by the newest trend of dark and often evil rock that is is being put out and kids are getting into. Gangsta Rap is another example and is clearly destructive. However, to label all music as evil is ubsurd and to make the assumption that listening to only "Christian" music will get you closer to God is a farse.

DPand Tammy said in the above post and others, that we should only listen to music that glorifies God. How and what does that mean? Who and How makes that determination? Define "Music that glorifies God?"

I think a lot of radical Christians think they are being led by God when in fact they are brainwahsed by someone or many people into a lifestyle and way of thinking. We have to becareful with thinking we are convicted when in fact we are so gullible, we are sheep being led to the slaughter.

All things in balance for the betterment of the Kingdom....:cool:

E


Actually, I enjoyed reading this post. However, I would like to mention something. Being a REAL Christian is radical, by the world's standards. When I say "real" Christian, I mean one who obeys the words of Christ, not necessarily someone who is saved but in a state of resistance. Have you seen the documentary, "Beyond the Gates of Splendor"? Those five guy and their families were what I call, "real" Christians. They were devoted to following God no matter where He led them. They were not legalistic by any stretch of the imagination. A couple of them even listened to secular music and taught their young wives how to dance! They were not bound by the typical fears and blinders that can trap people into organized adherence to some "overlord". They were living out the Gospel by reaching the lost in whatever way and by whatever means they had. They loved others and didn't care what the world thought of their allegiance to the King of Kings. Being a Christian is not about following the rules of men, but about a change of life, devotion and eternal perspective -- in short, it is seeking to be God's child and pursuit Him as our Holy Parent.

Rock

[bholdj]

I have been involved with the music business for 6 yrs and a fan for all of my life. I am distrubed by the newest trend of dark and often evil rock that is is being put out and kids are getting into. Gangsta Rap is another example and is clearly destructive. However, to label all music as evil is ubsurd and to make the assumption that listening to only "Christian" music will get you closer to God is a farse.



Looks like we finally agree on something hoss *slaps a high five*. I agree with this statement. Keith Urban is a good example of a member of the secular music genre actually making music that is positive. He is a country singer, but you hear him play gutair and you swear your hearing stevie ray vaughn, hes that good.

Talk to ya later dude...

John

[Evanescence]

Cool....

The other point I made earlier in the post, is that just because some songs/music is NOT pleasing to God/poistive or "Christian" doesn't mean we should swear off all music and label it is EVIL.

People are fed up with radicals who are so stiff, they squeak when they walk. How can we talk to the un-saved....if thats even a word...when we're so wound up and act as if we need to live in a cave in order to love Christ?

Christianity is about wisdom and Holy Spirit common sense.....not insanity or half-wit behavior.

Should we swaer off religion just because of the shenanigans that goes on in some of the corrupt churches? ...or what happened in the past with the Catholic church? Generalizing is never right...or beneficial to the kingdom.....

I've been writing a spiritual-based, rock opera for 5 yrs and it will be released in january. You can label it as you wish, but I feel it is going to benefit many...and be pleasing to God. Plus its gonna rock!!!!

more on that to come....

E

[Grank]

so Evanescence = the christian meatloaf???

[Evanescence]

so Evanescence = the christian meatloaf???

Roger Waters :cool:

[julzhef]

First of all....ROCK ON Evanescence!!! I think that is great.


I listen to all types of music. I try to make it a point to. I teach Sunday School for a middle school class, so I try to know what is out there and what they are listening to. I have to be honest, some of it worries me. I try to witness to these youth on why they shouldn't be listening to some of it. As an adult we can brush off some suggestive lyrics, but it is harder for the youth to dismiss it. They have very impressionable minds. We as parents and christian leaders need to try to protect them. Being a christian is hard enough, but being a teen christian can be one of the hardest things that an individual can do. I am not saying that we shouldn't let them listen to ANY seculiar music, but we should know what type of music they are listening to. Just encourage them to stick to positive, uplifting music, that doesn't cause them to think of tempting things, or situations. If you aren't careful how you do that though, you will cause them to rebel. We all know that when we are told NOT to do something that it just makes us want to do it that much more.

[bholdj]

First of all....ROCK ON Evanescence!!! I think that is great.


I listen to all types of music. I try to make it a point to. I teach Sunday School for a middle school class, so I try to know what is out there and what they are listening to. I have to be honest, some of it worries me. I try to witness to these youth on why they shouldn't be listening to some of it. As an adult we can brush off some suggestive lyrics, but it is harder for the youth to dismiss it. They have very impressionable minds. We as parents and christian leaders need to try to protect them. Being a christian is hard enough, but being a teen christian can be one of the hardest things that an individual can do. I am not saying that we shouldn't let them listen to ANY seculiar music, but we should know what type of music they are listening to. Just encourage them to stick to positive, uplifting music, that doesn't cause them to think of tempting things, or situations. If you aren't careful how you do that though, you will cause them to rebel. We all know that when we are told NOT to do something that it just makes us want to do it that much more.

One of the best songs i have evr heard is "whisky lulliby" by Brad Paisley sung with Allison Krausse. Not because its positive, far from it, but because it sends a message that there are people hurting, teenagers need to know that, not be naive when they see a suicide news report and say "ah, poor devils." Make sense? :D

[julzhef]

One of the best songs i have evr heard is "whisky lulliby" by Brad Paisley sung with Allison Krausse. Not because its positive, far from it, but because it sends a message that there are people hurting, teenagers need to know that, not be naive when they see a suicide news report and say "ah, poor devils." Make sense? :D



That is a GREAT song! I think it is important to try to understand the thought behind the lyrics and the song. You are right, they need to know that there are people hurting out there...mentally, physically, but most of all spiritually. We need to teach them to reach out to those in need. That is one way of how we are supposed to be set apart from others.

[bholdj]

That is a GREAT song! I think it is important to try to understand the thought behind the lyrics and the song. You are right, they need to know that there are people hurting out there...mentally, physically, but most of all spiritually. We need to teach them to reach out to those in need. That is one way of how we are supposed to be set apart from others.

amen, well said :D

[shygirl]

Well said!!

How can we witness to others about the good news if we are isolated from them so much, act stuffy and are a pain in the butt? I wonder how many people REALLY understand the way the Holy Spirit works at times. With the Holy Spirit in us, we CAN watch virtually anything or listen to virtually anything and it doesn't affect us. Plus, we can assoiciate and deal with people on all levels and not get sucked into their world. We are warriors for God. We NEED to be on a down to earth, cool level with all people and ditch the holier than though ideas. It's counter productive.

Okay I had decided not to post on this board anymore because I don't want to be a part of the argument. I just had to say this about this post: Just because I choose to fill my mind only with music that focuses on God and His love does not make me a bad witness. I don't feel like you have a right to say that makes us a bad witness anymore than we shouldn't say that listening to secular music would make you a bad witness. And as far as you thinking people like me are a "pain in the butt"? I would only be concerned if God thought I was a pain in the butt and He doesn't. He loves me just as much as He loves you. Just because I do not listen to secular music does not mean I isolate myself from the world. I can be a witness to the lost without listening to secular music. The last time I took a persons hand and said "Do you need me to pray with you to receive Jesus", they didn't say "Well I don't know. Do you listen to secular music"?
Again I do applaud everyones passion for God no matter where you fall on this subject.

[hefdaddy42]

It seems to me that if someone makes the choice to listen only to Christian music, then that is fine for them. But I think it is reprehensible to condemn other Christians for listening to secular music. Just because a choice might be right for you, doesn't make it right for others.

[Mugirl04]

It seems to me that if someone makes the choice to listen only to Christian music, then that is fine for them. But I think it is reprehensible to condemn other Christians for listening to secular music. Just because a choice might be right for you, doesn't make it right for others.
i agree!

[shygirl]

I agree as well. If you will look back at my posts, I have never said all secular music is bad or everyone who listens to secular music is bad.I have simply defended my choice not to do so.

[jde4563]

The secular music I listen to is, mostly, oldies/classic rock- Elvis, Chicago, Kansas, Journey, Foreigner, The Beatles, The Beach Boys and some jazz from 70's & 80's-Chuck Mangione, Maynard Ferguson. "Stuff" like that. The only "newer" secular music I've bought in the last few years has been UP by Shania Twain and How To Dismantle An Atomic Bomb by U2. Other than that a lot of what's out there, in the secular market, does nothing for me, so to speak.

[Aussie3rddayfan]

Old Skool Rock is awesome. I love songs from Men at Work, Jimmy Barnes, Hunters and Collectors, Pink Floyd, a bit of AC/DC and a little bit of Led Zepplin as well. Oh and Queen to. Good stuff. :D

[Evanescence]

Old Skool Rock is awesome. I love songs from Men at Work, Jimmy Barnes, Hunters and Collectors, Pink Floyd, a bit of AC/DC and a little bit of Led Zepplin as well. Oh and Queen to. Good stuff. :D

I'm a huge Led Zeppelin fan...

many have said Jimmy Page was into the occult and its likley true. but, thats not my problem and there aren't any references to it in their music...nothing thats gonna make me go do soemthing. Besides he may have changed his tune and now denounces it. Eitherway, my God won't judge me cause I like someones guitar playing....or the other guys inthe band.

Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin are two of the greatest rock bands ever!!!

[Aussie3rddayfan]

I like the new rock as well. Greenday, Pearl Jam, Goo Goo Dolls, Good Charlotte and REM all have some great songs. Alex Lloyd's new sond 'Brand New Day' is pretty good as well. :D

[bholdj]

I'm a huge Led Zeppelin fan...

many have said Jimmy Page was into the occult and its likley true. but, thats not my problem and there aren't any references to it in their music...nothing thats gonna make me go do soemthing. Besides he may have changed his tune and now denounces it. Eitherway, my God won't judge me cause I like someones guitar playing....or the other guys inthe band.

Pink Floyd and Led Zeppelin are two of the greatest rock bands ever!!!

Jimmy page is awesome for one reason alone. The man loved Lord of The Rings!!!!! :cool:

[Evanescence]

Jimmy page is awesome for one reason alone. The man loved Lord of The Rings!!!!! :cool:

Page and Plant both were.....

[Aussie3rddayfan]

Jimmy page is awesome for one reason alone. The man loved Lord of The Rings!!!!! :cool:

Am I correct in my understanding that Sweet Child of Mine is about Galadreil from LOTR? :D

[Grank]

have we decided if secular music is evil yet... cuz i just bought the best of pantera cd and i was wonder'n if i have just condemned meself to hell or not...

[Healing Oil]

have we decided if secular music is evil yet... cuz i just bought the best of pantera cd and i was wonder'n if i have just condemned meself to hell or not...
some would say you have, I on the other hand say you have not.

[hefdaddy42]

have we decided if secular music is evil yet... cuz i just bought the best of pantera cd and i was wonder'n if i have just condemned meself to hell or not...
Secular music is not evil in and of itself; that's just silly. And you're definitely not going to hell for buying Pantera. That's just a tribute to your good taste. :D

[jwil59]

Secular music is not evil in and of itself; that's just silly. And you're definitely not going to hell for buying Pantera. That's just a tribute to your good taste. :D


Hello everyone!! I don't think secular music is evil. I have followed the career of Jimmy Buffett for almost 30 years. Yeah you might guess I am a little further in years than some of you. When you react negativly to any media such as TV of music then there is a problem. Like i said, I like Jimmy Buffett but that does not mean I am going to light out for Key West and get high beside the ocean, it just means I like the music. Anyone listen to country music? How bout "Tequilla makes her clothes fall off"? Is that evil?

[larryl]

Am I correct in my understanding that Sweet Child of Mine is about Galadreil from LOTR? :D


this is either hysterical, or amazingly sad......

you DO know that 'sweet child of mine' is NOT a led zep song, right?

[Grank]

*sings son of a son of a sailor in his head*

axl rose is a tool... i'm not say'n that just cuz i'm a metallica fan. i like his music and all, but he's a complete jerk. without slash GnR would have been much less influential if even a major band at the time. slash has some awesome classical guitar pieces by the way. he's quite the geetarist.

*changes song to welcome to the jungle*

[bholdj]

[QUOTE=Grank

*changes song to welcome to the jungle*[/QUOTE]

Best football *get hype* song ever :D

[jwil59]

*sings son of a son of a sailor in his head*

axl rose is a tool... i'm not say'n that just cuz i'm a metallica fan. i like his music and all, but he's a complete jerk. without slash GnR would have been much less influential if even a major band at the time. slash has some awesome classical guitar pieces by the way. he's quite the geetarist.

*changes song to welcome to the jungle*


Stick with "son of a son..."

Way in the near future,
Southeast of dosorder,
yoy can shake the hand
of the mangled man as he meets you at the border"

Now that's songwriting!!!!

[middletree]

i just bought the best of pantera cd and i was wonder'n if i have just condemned meself to hell or not...


Um, no...one goes to hell when one doesn't accept the free gift of salvation by following Jesus Christ.


I don't think secular music is evil. I have followed the career of Jimmy Buffett for almost 30 years.

To both of you: this is silly reasoning. You're saying that secular music isn't sinful because you listen to it.

For the record, I'm not against secular music. Just bad logic.

[jwil59]

Um, no...one goes to hell when one doesn't accept the free gift of salvation by following Jesus Christ.




To both of you: this is silly reasoning. You're saying that secular music isn't sinful because you listen to it.

For the record, I'm not against secular music. Just bad logic.

Nope, I think it isn't evil because music is plain and simply a form of entertainment. It isn't a being(like Satan) or a thing(like abortion). It should only be taken at face value, it is up to the listener as to how he wants to react. I went to see a pretty good country artist from your neck of the woods last year. I fellow named Charlie Robison, if you know him u know his music is kinda racey. The secularism of Charlie's music can in no way offset his songwriting talent, which is simply brilliant.

[jrmitch]

......because man, I shoulda started tracking this thread more closely a long time ago. 236 posts spread over 16 pages is a lot to catch up on....:D

Okay, admittedly I'm not going to go back and read every post. However, I don't buy the mindset that a band that doesn't identify itself as a "Christian" band is necessarily evil, because many secular bands and artists contribute things that are positive to our culture. Let me single out just one of many examples: Bon Jovi.

Yeah, the big hair guys who have sold over 100 million records and have somehow survived all the different trends of the last 20 years (and if you woulda told me back in the big hair days that Bon Jovi would someday have a #1 hit on the country music charts I woulda told you that you were definitely on crack.....:D ). Okay, set aside whether you like their music or not and consider that both personally and corporately they've been giving back in terms of helping others for those 20 years that they've been around (two quick examples: as co-owner of the Philadelphia Soul Arena Football league team John has taken every penny of the million dollar profit the team has generated over the last 3 years and poured it back into inner city projects in Philly; and by September 1 the band will have financed the construction of over 20 new homes in hurricane ravaged Houghton, LA). And to respond to comments in the original post about there being positive lyrics in secular songs, consider that Bon Jovi has produced numerous songs that exemplify qualities all of us find admirable, such as honesty, loyalty, and perseverance through adversity. (And as I've said elsewhere on the boards I've often used lyrics from songs such as "Born to be my Baby" and "Bed of Roses" in conversations with unbelievers as illustrative of fidelity in marriage). Do they have their flaws? Sure - but anyone with a good working knowledge of the band can see that they've offered many positive examples through both their music and lifestyle.

Now, do they know Christ? I have no way of knowing, though I know John grew up Catholic and has a lot of spiritual overtones in some of his material; I also know that keyboardist David Bryan is a devout Jew actively involved in his local synagogue. But I do know this: they get the fact that life doesn't revolve around them or their music, and they're making significant efforts to give something back. And they're just one of many bands not involved in the Christian music subculture that are doing so.

If all secular music was evil then I doubt we'd find much that's positive that could be gleaned from the lyrics and lifestyles of those who make the music. But that's just not true, and I think all of us know it. It doesn't matter if it's Bon Jovi being involved with Habitat for Humanity, or Bono's long standing efforts to make a difference in issues such as world hunger, or guys like Bob Geldof organizing efforts such as "Live Aid". There are many secular artists who display a conscience that is soft and pliable enough for God to use their music and lives to produce fruit that will display qualities and characteristics which glorify Him. Granted, that's often done without the artist being necessarily aware of it, but it doesn't change the fact that it happens.

It seems to me that when we impose our own standards for righteousness that we shortchange Gods ability to use any means available to Him. If we look carefully we'll see that God has taken many artists outside of the church and has used them to draw attention to qualities that actually display glimpses of His character. While I don't argue that there is much that's bad about secular music, I've made a choice to be on the lookout for the opportunities it provides to share the reality of my faith. And it's amazing how often those opportunities present themselves if you ask God to help you see them.

Sorry for the long post, but I figure if I'm gonna throw in my two cents then I'm gonna get my moneys worth......:)

[larryl]

Stick with "son of a son..."

Way in the near future,
Southeast of dosorder,
yoy can shake the hand
of the mangled man as he meets you at the border"

Now that's songwriting!!!!


after 30 years, you'd think you might know the lyrics better than that....

Now away in the near future, southeast of disorder,
You can shake the hand of the mango man
As he greets you at the border.

:D :D

devout parrothead, and member of the church of buffett, orthodox:cool:

[jwil59]

after 30 years, you'd think you might know the lyrics better than that....

Now away in the near future, southeast of disorder,
You can shake the hand of the mango man
As he greets you at the border.

:D :D

devout parrothead, and member of the church of buffett, orthodox:cool:


Mother mother ocean, I have heard you call
wanted to sail upon your waters, since I was 2 feet tall..........

[jwil59]

after 30 years, you'd think you might know the lyrics better than that....

Now away in the near future, southeast of disorder,
You can shake the hand of the mango man
As he greets you at the border.

:D :D

devout parrothead, and member of the church of buffett, orthodox:cool:


Yeah I know it's 3 feet tall......or my personal favorite............
Stashed his trash in Ecuador, bought a good suit of clothes.
Flew on up to Mexico, standin' by the shore.
Waiting for some mystery man, to pay him for his time.
Thinkin' about all the money he made,
couldn't help to ease his mind
Havana daydreamin' oh he's just dreamin' his life away.

[kiwisongbird]

MMMmmmmmm - I think SOME secular music is evil, but it's not the music, it's the lyrics and the spirit that is behind the music.... sorry guys, but if someone's singing about cutting off someone else's head and putting it in a tv set - well? (said just like Samantha from Bewitched...) come on.... that's definitely not going to bring you closer to God is it?

Dont' get me wrong, I listen to secular music and enjoy it - Mozart is great (joke...) :) :)

If guys and/or girls in a band are into truckloads of drugs and alcohol and have sex with anyone and everyone - well? (there it is again) - maybe, just maybe their songs etc are going to reflect that a little... and there is a lot of great Christian music out there now (heaps more than when I was younger - like twenty or so years ago...)...

Not saying that you have to only listen to Christian music, but seriously folks (that was a bit like Bugs Bunny....) what's life about anyway?????????????? Is it about listening to music and not caring about what type of lifestyle it's promoting? Is it about having fun (oh I wish!!!!!!!) Is it about getting as much 'stuff' as we can??? or is it about Jesus giving His life for us so we can be His friends and make disciples of all the nations??? (See - the Bible!)

Maybe there is an element of eternity needing consideration ..... :)
and the only other thing I can say now that would in anyway be appropriate would be...........

ROCK ON GOMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D

[larryl]

Mother mother ocean, I have heard you call
wanted to sail upon your waters, since I was 2 feet tall..........


i hopw you know, i was only giving you a hard time....:cool:

[shygirl]

MMMmmmmmm - I think SOME secular music is evil, but it's not the music, it's the lyrics and the spirit that is behind the music.... sorry guys, but if someone's singing about cutting off someone else's head and putting it in a tv set - well? (said just like Samantha from Bewitched...) come on.... that's definitely not going to bring you closer to God is it?

Dont' get me wrong, I listen to secular music and enjoy it - Mozart is great (joke...) :) :)

If guys and/or girls in a band are into truckloads of drugs and alcohol and have sex with anyone and everyone - well? (there it is again) - maybe, just maybe their songs etc are going to reflect that a little... and there is a lot of great Christian music out there now (heaps more than when I was younger - like twenty or so years ago...)...

Not saying that you have to only listen to Christian music, but seriously folks (that was a bit like Bugs Bunny....) what's life about anyway?????????????? Is it about listening to music and not caring about what type of lifestyle it's promoting? Is it about having fun (oh I wish!!!!!!!) Is it about getting as much 'stuff' as we can??? or is it about Jesus giving His life for us so we can be His friends and make disciples of all the nations??? (See - the Bible!)

Maybe there is an element of eternity needing consideration ..... :)
and the only other thing I can say now that would in anyway be appropriate would be...........

ROCK ON GOMERS!!!!!!!!!!!!! :D
AWESOME!!! Very well said!
**applauds**
Very good points!!

[ObiShawn]

. . . and there is a lot of great Christian music out there now I know it is a matter of opinions, but I totally disagree. Main stream Christain music has become so redundant. It's like every artist/band has to cover the exact same song so that we end up with 40 different versions of newest popular worship song. Once that one is ran into the ground, we move on to the next. And then even the bands that aren't on the worship song du jour have been producing very mediocre songs. It seems that most of the groups that were edgy have stepped away from what drew people to them in the first place.

[jwil59]

i hopw you know, i was only giving you a hard time....:cool:


I gotcha bro!! I have seen a couple decent Buffett shows up in your neck of the woods. Jimmy has left his roots and that's a little disapointing to me. The first 40 rows are no longer filled with parrotheads, but Segrams executives and resturant suppy managers.

[Evanescence]

I know it is a matter of opinions, but I totally disagree. Main stream Christain music has become so redundant. It's like every artist/band has to cover the exact same song so that we end up with 40 different versions of newest popular worship song. Once that one is ran into the ground, we move on to the next. And then even the bands that aren't on the worship song du jour have been producing very mediocre songs. It seems that most of the groups that were edgy have stepped away from what drew people to them in the first place.

Ahhh, Obi-Shawn your wisdom impresses even the MidiCloreans....:D

I totally agree. My wife asks me why I don't get excited or even sing along with worship music in church....contemporary worship music. I do but it doesnt trigger an emotional response becuase it is often weak and mindless.

I have high standards with music so weak melodies and cliche' lyrics do nothing for me. I have listened to a LOT of Christian music and found a some of it very inspiring and thought provoking. But a LOT of it, IMO is just weak and short on everything except telling people how great the world is with Christ etc etc.

I just need some crunch and balls in my music but especially originality and clever writing. I'll take it anywhere I can, as long as it doesn't seriusly comprimise my walk and/or the kingdom.

.02

[Jason]

It's like every artist/band has to cover the exact same song so that we end up with 40 different versions of newest popular worship song. Once that one is ran into the ground, we move on to the next.

Hey, can you find me 40 artists to record a worship song I wrote? :p

[ObiShawn]

I just need some crunch and balls in my music but especially originality and clever writing. I'll take it anywhere I can, as long as it doesn't seriusly comprimise my walk and/or the kingdom.I totally agree man! Modern Christian music is just so passive and touchy feely.

Hey, can you find me 40 artists to record a worship song I wrote? Shoot, just find some way to get it to the public (Myspace music?) and eventually, you will be sick of your own stuff! :D

[Jason]

Shoot, just find some way to get it to the public (Myspace music?) and eventually, you will be sick of your own stuff! :D

If only it was that easy. :p

http://www.soundclick.com/jasonmitchener

[Grank]

Um, no...one goes to hell when one doesn't accept the free gift of salvation by following Jesus Christ.

now this type of radical thinking is pure craziness. you mean to tell me that Jesus is the only way to salvation??? i don't think i can grasp that concept.




To both of you: this is silly reasoning. You're saying that secular music isn't sinful because you listen to it.

For the record, I'm not against secular music. Just bad logic.
how can my statement have been any type of statement of reasoning? it was a queery of sorts. besides, my statement was made in jest and was made to poke fun at the ppl who are against secular music. the real statement was this "hey, i really don't care if you think secular music is wrong cuz i have no conviction from God as to it being wrong so why should i feel convicted by you." now that was the real statement. why must you assumne otherwise? anytime you feel like you've assumed what i mean you might wanna take it up with me, cuz you're more than likely wrong.

[Evanescence]

Grank said:

how can my statement have been any type of statement of reasoning? it was a queery of sorts. besides, my statement was made in jest and was made to poke fun at the ppl who are against secular music. the real statement was this "hey, i really don't care if you think secular music is wrong cuz i have no conviction from God as to it being wrong so why should i feel convicted by you." now that was the real statement. why must you assumne otherwise? anytime you feel like you've assumed what i mean you might wanna take it up with me, cuz you're more than likely wrong.

Grank, you should know you can't joke with radicals.......

BTW- I'm sure that the isolated Indians that never even heard the name Christ are going to hell....

Such a shame....:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[dpandtammy]

now this type of radical thinking is pure craziness. you mean to tell me that Jesus is the only way to salvation??? i don't think i can grasp that concept.




how can my statement have been any type of statement of reasoning? it was a queery of sorts. besides, my statement was made in jest and was made to poke fun at the ppl who are against secular music. the real statement was this "hey, i really don't care if you think secular music is wrong cuz i have no conviction from God as to it being wrong so why should i feel convicted by you." now that was the real statement. why must you assumne otherwise? anytime you feel like you've assumed what i mean you might wanna take it up with me, cuz you're more than likely wrong.

Grank-If Jesus is NOT the only way to salvation, would you please tell me how you plan on getting there? Just, you know, out of curiosity.:confused: