Your thoughts on the Animal Rights movement....

[Evanescence]

What do you all know about Animal Rights?

What are your thoughts on this movement?

Could the Animal Rights movement be a false religion?

What does the bible say about animals and animal Rights?

I have done a research project on the subject and will post the results and my opinion soon. Contrary to popualr belief, this is a VERY important topic for Christians.

E

[wbthornton]

I know better than to do this.......but.......it's too tempting ;)

While I don't for one minute believe that most animal lovers are on the fringe, I do believe there are people out there who are way out of the mainstream on this topic. I think most people who donate and volunteer their time to the Humane Society and to animal shelters are decent, well intentioned folks.

However, there are groups, PETA being the best known, that take animal rights to a whole new level. The scripture tells us that Adam was given dominion over the earth. I believe that to mean that man was created superior to the rest of the animal kingdom. In fact, man is the only created being that was given a spirit.

For the most part, I find that animal rights activists are also huge supporters of what I would call the Wacko Environmentalist movement, population control and abortion rights. They are typically have a naturalistic, humanistic worldview, meaning that evolution is truth and their is no such thing as life after death, except the few who believe in reincarnation.

While I'm not sure how many animal rights activists actually worship animals - although I'm sure there are some - I believe that this is part and parcel of their religion, worship of Mother Earth.

[middletree]

I'm in favor of using common sense. PETA has shown themselves to be extremists. However, if they are right that some very cruel things are being done in places that raise chickens or cows, then perhaps we should see if there is something that can be done. Problem is, when PETA is the ones reporting such abuses, nobody takes them seriously, except other PETA members.

For the record, animals don't have rights. Rights come with responsibilities. Humans have a responsibility to avoid cruelty to animals if they can. Where that line is drawn is something I have no answer for.

[cheewiee]

I'm in favor of using common sense. PETA has shown themselves to be extremists. However, if they are right that some very cruel things are being done in places that raise chickens or cows, then perhaps we should see if there is something that can be done. Problem is, when PETA is the ones reporting such abuses, nobody takes them seriously, except other PETA members.

For the record, animals don't have rights. Rights come with responsibilities. Humans have a responsibility to avoid cruelty to animals if they can. Where that line is drawn is something I have no answer for.

PETA.... People Eating Tasty Animals.... :D Sorry I just had to....

I have certian disgust for Peta... As a pet owner I cannot support an organization that wants to liberate my dog.... As a pet owner who has a dog that possibly has a bit of Pit Bull In her... I cannot support an organiztion that would like to see all of such breed humanly destroyed....

As far as the other stuff.... I think that there we have been given dominion over animals, and as such we are responsible to treat them well.... But that doesn't mean we shouldn't eat nor make hide out of animals....

[shelleybeansMAN]

People eating tasty animals.... I love that!...where do I sign up?

[cheewiee]

People eating tasty animals.... I love that!...where do I sign up?

Your nearest steakhouse....:D

[wbthornton]

Got A-1?

:p

[HotWireD]

In the United kingdom we have the ALF - Animal Liberation Front.

One of their stated aims is that the population of HUMANS needs to be reduced to about ten per cent of what it is now so that animals can live better lives.

That sounds like they put the lives of 5.5 billion people after the lives of animals.

I see no problem with being concerned about cruelty to any living thing, but things have to be put into perspective. I eat animals, but I do not go out of my way to torture or torment them.

There are laws already in place to deal with people that torture or mistreat animals.

We may have dominion over animals, so eating them and using them for clothing etc is fine, but keeping them in cruel conditions and tormenting them says something about the people that do that sort of thing.

Personally, I would put the life and well being of a human over the life of any animal every time.

[Musicdude]

Wow. I have to admit I'm both surprised and impressed by all of these responses so far.

[Evanescence]

What no bunny huggers in the house? :( ;)

Well besides being a writer/researcher I am also an animal damage specialist and avid outdoors men. Us, hunters/fishermen know the AR movement well because we are the target of their major campaigns.

I have done extensive research on the subject and will post them Sun night.

Thee is MUCH more here than meets the eye. Stay Tuned!!!!!

[Pouye]

I think it is very unfortunate that human beings put themselves and their well being over the delicate balance of the natural world. Animals have the same rights as human beings, since we are dependent on each other for survival. The notion that animals are inferior to human beings is taught by the same people who love to kill and maim animals for sport merely to entertain themselves.

When hunters claim that they hunt for the meat, I tell them that if they are truthful, they can sell their weapons/ammunition, get their money back for all their gear and tags, unsubcribe to the cable channels that advocate the violent sport of hunting, and use all of that money to BUY enough meat or fish to fill 2 freezers. It's not about meat... it's about ego, pride, and killing for fun.

It is already proven that animal fats are a leading cause of heart problems in the USA and around the world. These saturated fats clog arteries and veins. Animal meat, when charred (as happens often in barbecues), reduces the meat to carbon. Grilling meat produces at least two types of potentially dangerous chemicals: polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) and heterocyclic amines (HCAs). PAHs are products of imperfect combustion found in smoke and burned matter. In large enough quantities they will definitely cause cancer in humans--to cite one famous example, scrotal cancer in chimney sweeps. In barbecue grills they're commonly formed when dripping fat flares up, charring the underside of the meat.

Humans do not need animals for food, nor do they need their hides. We have other foods available that are more healthy and are more sustainable. We also have synthetic materials that are at least as good as materials made by animals.

The only reason this debate goes on is because men have high testosterone levels that drive them toward acts of violence and thrill-seeking. Men simply will not give up killing bunnies and bambies because they get a kick out of it. Women who like to hunt do so misguidely because they are trying to prove that they are not inferior to men.

This was fun to write ;)

Rock

[mat1583]

I think it is very unfortunate that human beings put themselves and their well being over the delicate balance of the natural world. Animals have the same rights as human beings, since we are dependent on each other for survival. The notion that animals are inferior to human beings is taught by the same people who love to kill and maim animals for sport merely to entertain themselves.

When hunters claim that they hunt for the meat, I tell them that if they are truthful, they can sell their weapons/ammunition, get their money back for all their gear and tags, unsubcribe to the cable channels that advocate the violent sport of hunting, and use all of that money to BUY enough meat or fish to fill 2 freezers. It's not about meat... it's about ego, pride, and killing for fun.

It is already proven that animal fats are a leading cause of heart problems in the USA and around the world. These saturated fats clog arteries and veins. Animal meat, when charred (as happens often in barbecues), reduces the meat to carbon. Grilling meat produces at least two types of potentially dangerous chemicals: polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons (PAHs) and heterocyclic amines (HCAs). PAHs are products of imperfect combustion found in smoke and burned matter. In large enough quantities they will definitely cause cancer in humans--to cite one famous example, scrotal cancer in chimney sweeps. In barbecue grills they're commonly formed when dripping fat flares up, charring the underside of the meat.

Humans do not need animals for food, nor do they need their hides. We have other foods available that are more healthy and are more sustainable. We also have synthetic materials that are at least as good as materials made by animals.

The only reason this debate goes on is because men have high testosterone levels that drive them toward acts of violence and thrill-seeking. Men simply will not give up killing bunnies and bambies because they get a kick out of it. Women who like to hunt do so misguidely because they are trying to prove that they are not inferior to men.

This was fun to write ;)

Rock


ok, before I think out and write a response....you aren't serious, right?

-washboard

[Aaron]

I think that PETA is crazy, in fact they are now passing out comic books to kids at fishing conventions saying, "Your dad is a murderer" and "don't let him come near your doggies and kitties or he will murder them too".

[Sharon]

Pouye......I loved it!!!! (I guess I'm a misguided woman right?? PFFFTTTT!!!)

I've also seen the PETA people passing out those ridiculous comic books. Yeesh!!!

What I love is when they protest the circus. Being a clown, I go every year (for research purposes only :rolleyes: ) This past year I went and got involved talking to a protester (who was wearing leather shoes mind you) telling me all the atrocities that happen to the animals, blah, blah blah. The joke was that all the while he was talking, I'm standing there eating my Wendy's single!!! I loved it.

Personally I don't wear fur or eat veal. But that's my choice. I grew up in an area where there was a lot of trapping. There was also a cattle / veal farm down the road. So I've seen a few things. But it's my choice.

I think the extremists just make huge caricatures of themselves and they don't even realize it. Here in Pgh, last March, we had a PETA protest down 5th Ave. A couple of ladies were wrapped in a "I'd rather be naked than wear fur" sign. And yes they were naked. It was ridiculous because it was only 38 degrees outside. Needless to say, they were the "butt" of many a good joke.

(starts looking for the A-1 sauce)

[Pouye]

ok, before I think out and write a response....you aren't serious, right?

-washboard

Ok... you flushed me out. But SOMEBODY needed to disagree. :D

Rock

[Musicdude]

Animals have the same rights as human beings, since we are dependent on each other for survival. The notion that animals are inferior to human beings is taught by the same people who love to kill and maim animals for sport merely to entertain themselves.

Actually I believe very strongly that men are higher than the animals, because the bible says so. And I have never hunted in my life and have no plans to. I also have done very little fishing, but ate what I did catch.

So :p

[Musicdude]

Oops, I thought you were serious. My mistake.

Hunters are a strange breed though, I have to admit. They get all excited about rubbing deer urine all over them, bundlinge up and sitting in a freezing cold deer stand for days. When the finally do kill a deer then they have to field-dress them which is seriouly disgusting. Not to mention all the money they spend on a license, a rifle, a deer lease, camoflauge cothing. And all of this to get an ice-chest full of meat that usually has to be mixed with pork to make it taste good in sausage. I think I'll just go to the grocery store, thanks just the same.

[kiwisongbird]

In New Zealand we have this cute little dolphin called the Hector's Dolphin which is super endangered - that's really really sad - I'm sad about that - you can go see them sometimes just down from where we used to live.... it would be awesome if we could manage to save these dolphins..... BUT...........

At a school I was working at we had a huge (rather heated) discussion in the staff room - you know - intelligent professional people ---

A couple of us had thought it would be cool for the school to 'adopt' a World Vision child (like $35 NZ per month to change a child's life through World Vision)...... so (stupidly) we mentioned it.......

WELL!!!!! Heated debate over that - many of the other teachers thought that was a pointless exercise and that it was far more important to sponsor a Hector's Dolphin - because after all, they were endangered and the human race isn't!

:eek: :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Evanescence]

Well this has certainly gotten interesting.....

Ok, before my comments, some facts about me.

I was born and raised in the country. While the other trailer park kids were smokin' weed, getting pregnant and making trouble, I was fishing, hunting and trapping. The outdoors and those activities got me through VERY rough times as my family life sucked.

I kept to my roots and became a full time/part time predator control specialist. In 1998 I wrote, produced and directed four predator control videos that were sold all over the USA and canada. I also wrote a documentary called The truth about Animal Rights. I worked in conjunction with the US Govt, NTA and WLFA as well as several other agencies and universities on the project. I am an aspiring writer/researcher.

FACTS:

1. For the past 20 years, 50% of the domestic terrorism in this country is AR related.

2. PETA and the HSUS (Humane Society of the US) has DIRECT ties to the ALF, an underground terrorist organization that advocates violence and murder for the protection and liberation of animals.

3. The AR movement generates 300 Million dollars annually but does not operate a single shelter. Shelters must PAY to be a charter member.

4. 90% of Animal Rightists are Atheists.

5. 85% are women

6. 80% are college educated

7. 90% are PRO abortion

8. 70% are between the ages of 18-25

9. Since 1980, the AR movement has done approximately 200 million dollars in damage to property as a result of terrorism.

10. In 1996 PETA paid the court costs and attorney fee's to convicted terrorist, Rodney Corando.

11. Ingrid Newkirk, founder and Pres of PETA is quoated as saying....."A Rat is a Pig is a Dog is a Boy. We're all animals."

--------

Animal Rightists believe we are all SENTIENT beings, meaning we all know we are alive and feel pain etc etc. Thus we should not think we are above one another.....SPECISM, they call this. Because they do not believe in God, they reject and mock Christians and the bible. But is this a false religion?

I recently did a research project on a AR website, message board...called...Veggiebo ards.

www.veggieboards.com

I will post the shocking results of this research soon. If you are interested in what they are all about, check out the site. Beware, you may be subject to chronic laughter and head shaking.... :D

Stay tuned....the plot thickens...

E

[Sharon]

HEY!! I noticed their board clock is as messed up as ours! That's about the only thing I took seriously :D

[praise man]

Bring On The Beef, Chicken, Pork, Deer, If It Aint Weird I Will Grill It Up And Slap It On A Bun Ha.

[wbthornton]

Maybe some sheep, rabbit and goat too :p


(Seriously.....I've eaten them)

[shelleybeansMAN]

.... I just cant believe some people actually murder vegetables... I mean, what did that head of lettuce ever do to them? I propose a new organization... the Vegetable Rights Group...to protect these helpless, living things... no more gardens!...no more gardens!... protect the plants! power to the plankton! eat meat not asparagus! ... man all this protesting has made me hungry... double cheeseburger please! What!... No,I dont want fries with that - you barbarian! ( The nerve of some people! ) ;) :p

[krazy4him0518]

Animals do have rights. Who protects us and who takes care of us. Our animals do. Animals have the right to kill somebody who attacks them. Animals have just as many rights as humans do. Some say animals dont have spirits..but my animals' spirit is what keeps me alive. If I did not have my animals there to comfort me when the rest of the world ignores me..i dunno where i'd be. But, than again, this is just my opinion. I'm an animal extremist. I agree with the PETA. Even though they put all of their heart and soul into trying to prevent animal abuse, they still get made fun of and beaten up over it. Put yourselves in an animals shoes. If you were getting abused and neglected you'd want it to stop. And I know you would because nobody likes getting abused. The PETA are just trying to prevent that so stop ragging on them because you dont know what its like to be one of them. It's probably extremely hard. k. bye
~LaDena~

[HotWireD]

Animals do have rights. Who protects us and who takes care of us. Our animals do. Animals have the right to kill somebody who attacks them. Animals have just as many rights as humans do. Some say animals dont have spirits..but my animals' spirit is what keeps me alive. If I did not have my animals there to comfort me when the rest of the world ignores me..i dunno where i'd be. But, than again, this is just my opinion. I'm an animal extremist. I agree with the PETA. Even though they put all of their heart and soul into trying to prevent animal abuse, they still get made fun of and beaten up over it. Put yourselves in an animals shoes. If you were getting abused and neglected you'd want it to stop. And I know you would because nobody likes getting abused. The PETA are just trying to prevent that so stop ragging on them because you dont know what its like to be one of them. It's probably extremely hard. k. bye
~LaDena~

I agree that sensless cruelty to animals in not right. I think it says a lot about a person if they will mistreat and abuse animals.

However, persecuting poeople for eating meat, or wearing fur/leather is not right (unless of course the Democratic process is used and the law is changed).

Taking the law into your own hands on a point of opinion cannot be right in these circumstances.

Beating up young children that are sitting on a river bank fishing is wrong. Putting bombs under cars of people that hunt is wrong. You don't like the way things are? we are allowed to protest, to try to pressure government to change the law, join an animal welfare organisation. But NOT threaten to kill people or blackmail people. These things do go on.

I would never harm an animal intentionally, or stand by and allow an animal to suffer. If i eat meat, I purchase it from places that treat their animals better, even if I have to pay more for my food.

I have seen the results of the ALF - people attacked with baseball bats, in the dark, when they are alone returning from work. Houses with windows broken. Bombs in shops and under cars.

Some of my best friends have been cats and dogs. I am not joking, they give unconditional love and are great company. They are not very good conversationalists, but they do sit and appear to listen.

Companies that poison rivers justifiably get prosecuted by the authorities. farms that mistreat their animals get prosecuted. There are available authorities and avenues to go to if you see animals getting mistreated.

[SacredHeart]

Evanescence, the statistics you've posted are quite sobering. I certainly understand why the media portrays them in a sympathetic light but I can't help but wonder how groups like PETA get away with such extremist, radical views and behaviors without the govt. stepping in.

Also, would you be able to direct me to or substantiate your statement with verifiable proof for the benefit of those who would like to use these figures?

Thanks! :)

[middletree]

Animals do have rights. Who protects us and who takes care of us. Our animals do. Animals have the right to kill somebody who attacks them. Animals have just as many rights as humans do. Some say animals dont have spirits..but my animals' spirit is what keeps me alive. If I did not have my animals there to comfort me when the rest of the world ignores me..i dunno where i'd be. But, than again, this is just my opinion. I'm an animal extremist. I agree with the PETA. Even though they put all of their heart and soul into trying to prevent animal abuse, they still get made fun of and beaten up over it. Put yourselves in an animals shoes. If you were getting abused and neglected you'd want it to stop. And I know you would because nobody likes getting abused. The PETA are just trying to prevent that so stop ragging on them because you dont know what its like to be one of them. It's probably extremely hard. k. bye
~LaDena~


Do have a single bible verse to back yourself up here? Because ultimately, our personal philosophies don't matter. Only God's opinion matters. God gave man His approval to use animals for meat and clothing and tools. Man is wrong if he does it in a cruel or abusive way, but nobody here is advocating that.

[HotWireD]

Do have a single bible verse to back yourself up here? Because ultimately, our personal philosophies don't matter. Only God's opinion matters. God gave man His approval to use animals for meat and clothing and tools. Man is wrong if he does it in a cruel or abusive way, but nobody here is advocating that.

Hear Hear! <above quote>

Many years ago I suffered from depression. I went with a friend to the Isle of White to look for dinosaur fossils.
I was hopping from boulder to boulder on the beach and as I stepped from one rock to another I looked down and saw a little arthropody sort of creature sitting on the rock right where my foot was going to land. I 'redirected' my foot to miss this creature and almost lost my footing - I would have fallen ten feet onto the rocks below - I was glad I did not kill the creature, then again, it would have been ironic if I had fallen and broken a bone or two to save it.
If I had not been suffering from depression (and therefore not thinking straight) I would have realised that there were thousands of these things all over and one less would not have been too much of a loss for the sake of my own health. People can think odd things when they are unwell.

I also stop and wring the necks of birds that have been hit by cars when the driver just drives on by.
Having said that, I once stopped and dragged a large male badger off the road after seeing it being hit by a car. The driver just stopped and looked then drove on by.
It turned out the badger was only unconcious.
Seeing that it was 50 kilos plus in weight and had two inch claws on paws bigger than my hands, I would have looked stupid if it had woken as I dragged it off the road.
It could have caused me quite an injury (as it was I put my back out dragging it). The driver who hit it was probably more aware of the consequences of getting out of his car than I was of approaching the badger.

When I was seventeen years old I worked part time in my school science preparation room.
One day some small children brought a cat into the laboratory that was very ill.
I took control, shooed the children out and examined the cat. It had a hole in its side about the size of a dollar piece. It had no muscles left - maggots had eaten all the inside out. That cat looked at me and it was clear (to me) that it was thinking 'Kill Me Please'.
I was just about to put it out of its misery when a teacher (who was an animal lover of the extreme type) came running in because the kids had mentioned to him what had happened.
He demanded that I did not kill it and he took it to a vets to save it.

He came back two hours later and told me 'Sorry David, the vet had to put it out of its misery because it was in such pain'.

All I could think was that the teacher had caused it to suffer needlessly for another hour or two when I had been ready to relieve it of its suffering straight away.

I am an animal lover and hated to see it suffering any longer than was necessary. The animal lover teacher let it suffer. I lost a little respect for that teacher that day.

the above anecdotes are just to show that I do care for animals, even though I do not put them before people.

[Evanescence]

The information was provided to me by a variety of sources.

1. A 1998 survey from Animals Agenda magazine-Sept issue

2. The book, The Beasts among us-By Russ Carmen

3. Animal Rights- Cant find the book-printed in 1999

4. A 6 week research project where I infiltrated the Veggieboards website and pretended to be one of them. Under the screen name, Evanescence, I asked several questions....two of which were the following:

1. Your thoughts on abortion

2. Your religious beliefs

In both cases almost 200 different people answered and 90% were PRO abortion and 90% were Atheist. 5% were Wiccan or into the Occult. 5% were Christian. In their archives...which my threadsa reonly 2 months old, are these threads I posted. I will also cut/paste some here very soon.

Also,
Through the NTA, Predator caller magazine and in conjunction with the USDA, information was provided for my documentary.

Simply do a Google search under Animal Rights terrorism OR Animal Rights facts and info will pop up.

OR check out PETA's scam site- www.jesuswasavegetarian.c om

Thats right....Jesus was a vegetarian!! A clever way to capitalize on a very large market...CHRISTIANS!!!!!! !!!

Now, perhaps you can see the significance of this topic. We have a group of people who don't believe in God, mock Christians and believe an ant has as much a right to this world as a little boy.

Make no mistake, this IS a false religion and Christians need to beware. They come to decieve and to pry us away from God with lies and deception.

More to come soon....

PS....dont forget veggieboards.com

I suggest- Animal Rights and welfare OR Compost heap. Compost Heap is where my two threads were placed. They are in the archives...

[Jake]

Animals have every right in the world......to be killed, deep fried and put on a plate in front of me.

I always hate the argument "They are raised soley to be killed and eaten." Let's face facts people; they didn't really have many aspirations to be doctors and teachers.

[SmileyFreak1981]

I hate animal cruelty as much as any sane person, but PETA just takes things to an insane level.

Then, there is ELF, or the Earth Liberation Front. ELF is known for burning buildings and other distructive and sometimes violent behavior. Though it's not well publicised, ELF and PETA are connected, though I don't quite remember who gives who money. ELF is a dangerous, terrorist organization, and they don't see anything wrong with what they do.

God did give humanity dominion over the other creatures of the earth, but I do believe that God also wants us to be good stewards of that which He has given us. There has to be a balance between using what we need, and preserving what we have for future generations.

[ObiShawn]

Animal rights:

God killed the first animal to provide a covering for Adam and Eve.

Gen 3:21
21 Also for Adam and his wife the LORD God made tunics of skin, and clothed them.
(NKJ)Abel offered the first born of his flocks.

Gen 4:4
4 Abel also brought of the firstborn of his flock and of their fat. And the LORD respected Abel and his offering,
(NKJ)God told Noah and his sons that they could eat anything.

Gen 9:2-3
2 "And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be on every beast of the earth, on every bird of the air, on all that move on the earth, and on all the fish of the sea. They are given into your hand.
3 "Every moving thing that lives shall be food for you. I have given you all things, even as the green herbs.
(NKJ)Of course it is wrong to torture animals. Drug testing on them is a debatable issue, almost a necessary evil. But we shouldn't lose focus: animals were put on this planet for man. We are not equals and we do not serve them. (I just had a crazy vision of a horse riding a man . . . :eek: )

EDIT -

God did give humanity dominion over the other creatures of the earth, but I do believe that God also wants us to be good stewards of that which He has given us. There has to be a balance between using what we need, and preserving what we have for future generations.Well said!

[coldcupofjoe]

And all of this to get an ice-chest full of meat that usually has to be mixed with pork to make it taste good in sausage. I think I'll just go to the grocery store, thanks just the same.


You don't waste good deer meat in suasage! You make steaks, stews, fajitas... not sausages! That's just wrong! People who do that get on my nerves. IT'S VENISON for crying out loud! Why turn it into sausage that is gonna taste the EXACT same as any other sausage ever made! AND HAVE MYSTERY CHUNKS!!!

[Gandalf]

Only a fraction of the meat of an animal is suitable for steaks. Sausages are a good use for some of the less appealing cuts of meat...

[Tribal]

Put yourselves in an animals shoes.

I would need tiny little feet.

[ICarlson99]

I can't stand PETA and ALF, they serve as tools of liberal thought - no longer just the protection of "animals". Turns out, I went to school with one of the spokesmen for PETA who was on MSNBC last week discussing the latest comic book that tells kids their parents are killers.

I asked some fellow alumns if he'd openly call Native Americans murderers for the same reason. But of course, since PETA is just part of the PC movement, criticizing Native Americans isn't something they're willing to do.

I did learn something at church a couple of months ago - that we were originally made "vegetarians" by God. It wasn't until after the flood we were given the animals as food:

Genesis 9:3 - Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything.

I never knew that.

[middletree]

I asked some fellow alumns if he'd openly call Native Americans murderers for the same reason.


How do they excuse carnivorous animals?

I did learn something at church a couple of months ago - that we were originally made "vegetarians" by God. It wasn't until after the flood we were given the animals as food.

Yep. Genesis 9 gives us our first instances of rain and meat-eating. Also, people no longer lived over 120 years. I suspect that God caused changes to the human body at this point, but I have no way of proving it. It's on my list of things to ask God when I see Him in person.

[ICarlson99]

How do they excuse carnivorous animals?


My hunch is they don't REALLY care about animals, they're anti-business and anti-development (that part I know) and just use animals as an excuse. It's largely a Marxist group (not all of PETA, but the folks I'm familiar with), and typical of most leftist groups will hijack any cause to push their true agenda (anti-capitalism).

[ObiShawn]

How do they excuse carnivorous animals?Maybe they write that off as survival of the fittest, since we all did evolve and everything . . . :rolleyes:

[SacredHeart]

Ok... you flushed me out. But SOMEBODY needed to disagree. :D

Rock

A better choice of words could not be made.... ;)




Btw, Evanescence, thank you for providing documentation. Didn't mean to make you work so hard! :)

[Evanescence]

Someone asked..."What they think of carnivorous animals..."

I asked the same question but only like this:

"If we are all animals, none of us better than the other, why is it OK for animals to kill and eat each other, but NOT for us to kill and eat them?"

Their response was that we don't NEED to eat animals. We have a choice to be vegetarian and not kill. We are also intellignet enough to find ways to not be cruel to animals thru killing etc etc.

Its all drama and an emotional issue. If you study these people, they are clearly eccentric, emotional disturbed and very gullable. If you look at their avatars you can see this. They despise Christians, because we believe we have dominion over the animals. They dont believe in God so that doesnt apply. A few select AR-ists are Christian.....mostly decieved and confused and dabbling in something they have no comprehension of.

Make no mistake, this IS a false religion. They are passionate and stubborn in their beliefs and will not waver. They are willing to shed blood for their cause and do so regularly. However, not all vegetarians and vegans are AR-ists...many are only in it for the health benefits....or so they think. You can't love God and be passionate about a cause to a point of insanity like this. It is a idol.

Also, not all AR-ists are terrorists. but when you defend groups like PETA and the ALF, YOU ARE a terrorist. In the AR movement, deception and drama run rampant.

There is much more to this picture and I suggest people check out this shocking bible verse...

Tim-4: 1-4

I think it explains a lot......

E

[middletree]

Someone asked..."What they think of carnivorous animals..."


I have a name, you know.


Tim-4: 1-4

I think it explains a lot......

E

1st or 2nd Timothy?

[Evanescence]

Sorry pal,

I think its Tim 1.

Too busy to check....but I did see it.

E

[Yh!SlrpSpdr]

Everyone talks about the animals rights, but I want to know about the animals lefts! Ya know what I'm saying?

[Evanescence]

I was lurking on the veggieboards site, and I see my research post entitled..."Your religous beliefs..." is still there !!

I would respectfully like to request everyone that is reading this post to view the thread from this link and see for yourself what they are all about. Further, I'd like to ask someone to register, comment on the post and bring it back up to the top so otyhers can continue to see it. I CAN NOT....I got banned.

Here is the link: http://www.veggieboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=44361




I hope you will see the seriousness and mentality of this false religion and their destructive and mis-leading ways. More info to come....

E

[ICarlson99]

Thanks for the link Evanescence - I read through several pages. it's amazing how self-absorbed people can become. "If there's a God, I'm not impressed", "It just doesn't seem right to me", etc.

Out of curiosity, how did you get banned?

[Evanescence]

How did I get banned?

LOL......ok.

I had been pushing their buttons for a while.....basically challenging them and their cross logic and chronic hypocrisy.

After messing with them for 5 weeks, I became depressed that people could be so DUMB and also became obsessed with trying to witness/correct their thinking. I felt it was time to quit as it was counterproductive to my writing career.

So, I wrote a letter of exit and posted it one late night. It basically blasted them (not igonrantly) and warned them of their ways. I gave them the truth and the facts. They had to get their MOD up out of bed to come and ban me. We went round and round for 1 1/2 hrs till I got zapped.

For a hunter and fishermen like myself, it was sweet revenge. Seriously, there were a few Christians I was witnessing to. They left after I explained to them what they were dabbling in.

You will never hear a bigger pack of lies than that movement. Believe nothing!!!!!!!!!

E

[ICarlson99]

:D Nicely done!

[Evanescence]

TTT

Now, they are trying to decide if its wrong to kill bacteria and viruses....

Insanity to the extreme..... :confused:

E

[ICarlson99]

I've always wondered what PETA types do if their places get ants or spiders or roaches or something. Do they kill them? Just abandon the house? Any of the posts discuss that over there?

[WeaselInYerFoot]

Everyone talks about the animals rights, but I want to know about the animals lefts! Ya know what I'm saying?

It has properly been dealt with. In a juicy, tender way.

*Cleans his mouth with a napkin*

[SmileyFreak1981]

It has properly been dealt with. In a juicy, tender way.

*Cleans his mouth with a napkin*
ROFL!!! :D

[Evanescence]

I've always wondered what PETA types do if their places get ants or spiders or roaches or something. Do they kill them? Just abandon the house? Any of the posts discuss that over there?

------------------------------
YES!!

They are against killing any "sentient" life.....life that knows it is alive.

They talk about non-lethal ways to remove nuisance creatures and some DO kill bugs, mice etc etc. The funny thing is this; It is a religion because they argue about the many variable in their lifestyle.....like we do on here. None of them truly get along.

I made the statement that I was giving up driving.....

How could I justify driving down the road, scaring poor animals (they feel its crule to inflict fear on anything) and causing strife to the thousands of bugs and insects that will be battered off my vehicle. I should be more compassionate to my insect friends.

They said that was a bit too radical.....I said EXACTLY.

Little did they know I am an avid hunter and fisherman. Well, they did when I gave them my fairwell speech.....such a shame...

E

[ICarlson99]

I've always wondered what PETA types do if their places get ants or spiders or roaches or something. Do they kill them? Just abandon the house? Any of the posts discuss that over there?

------------------------------
YES!!

They are against killing any "sentient" life.....life that knows it is alive.

They talk about non-lethal ways to remove nuisance creatures and some DO kill bugs, mice etc etc. The funny thing is this; It is a religion because they argue about the many variable in their lifestyle.....like we do on here. None of them truly get along.

I made the statement that I was giving up driving.....

How could I justify driving down the road, scaring poor animals (they feel its crule to inflict fear on anything) and causing strife to the thousands of bugs and insects that will be battered off my vehicle. I should be more compassionate to my insect friends.

They said that was a bit too radical.....I said EXACTLY.

Little did they know I am an avid hunter and fisherman. Well, they did when I gave them my fairwell speech.....such a shame...

E

Did you ever ask them is "sentient life" included an unborn child? ;)

[Aaron]

I've always wondered what PETA types do if their places get ants or spiders or roaches or something. Do they kill them? Just abandon the house? Any of the posts discuss that over there?
have you seen the commercial for kleenex where the guy is scared that he killed bacteria when he blew his nose? that is crazy.

[ICarlson99]

Amazing, yet not surprising. Just another example of why I think we should give more attention to these folks so that rational, reasonable people will know what exactly they're supporting by giving money to PETA. And then they'll stop giving them money.

[ICarlson99]

have you seen the commercial for kleenex where the guy is scared that he killed bacteria when he blew his nose? that is crazy.

Wait, are they allowed to take medicine which kills living organisms in their bodies which are attacking other living organisms in their body? It's got to just drive them crazy agonizing over these great moral dilemmas Or are these not considered sentient? What exactly would sentient imply? Viruses clearly have a sense of survival which is why they mutate - to stay alive.

[HotWireD]

have you seen the commercial for kleenex where the guy is scared that he killed bacteria when he blew his nose? that is crazy.


Jains (maybe only the priests) wear face masks to prevent inhaling microrganisms - they are an eastern religion (related to Hinduism I think). But even they would not condemn anyone who is not a Jain for eating or killing animals.

If PETA members are so 'pro life' do they not use any disinfectants in their toilets and drains?

Imagine getting a cut and not cleaning it before putting a bandaid on... reminds me of the days when lots of people died of gangrene (a life form) botulism, typhoid, malaria, tuberculosis....

<Note to self - do not ask to use a PETA members toilet if caught short....>

[Evanescence]

Did you ever ask them is "sentient life" included an unborn child?


----------------------

Yes, I did. Part of my research project was to ask 2 questions:

1. What are your religious beliefs?

2. Your thoughts on abortion....

My conclusion and the proof is in the various studied down on the AR movement and also in the pages of the veggieboards.com site is this.

90% of them said they were Atheist-and many had an almost hatred for Christians......

5% were into the Occult, Paganism or Wicca

5% were Christian

from my post, this was based on 200 separate responses....same for the abortion question below.

AND......

A solid 95% were PRO Abortion......

When I voiced my opinion about being Christian and Pro-life.....they tore into me like a pack of hungry wolves. Check the link above and see for yourself....

As for their wanting to save bacterium and Viruses. Not all of them are that radical but many are. I liked it when they were arguing about whether it was right or not to take the honey from Bees.

Crazy.

[ICarlson99]

The mental gymnastics they have to do to come to a consistent position must be absolutely excruciating.

[Evanescence]

You said it. If you study them.....in all ways, even their thoughts and opinions in the media, they are VERY melodramatic and exaggerate everything to the max. In the media, they use this method to sway the unsuspecting viewer with lies and propaganda making their cause more believable.

Like:

"Animals are often trapped in steel jaw traps that close with bone crushing force, causing immense pain and suffering to these animals. The steel jaw trap is an archaic tool that has been outlawed in many countries because of its cruel, torchurous, inhumane ways,"

Since studying them, I have found that there is no bounds to their lying in order to get their point across. Its all drama and emotion.

The problem is, when it comes to a nations economy and wildlife issues, decisions shouldn't be based on emotion, but made by qualified specialist, like wildlife biologists.

[ICarlson99]

they are VERY melodramatic and exaggerate everything to the max.

I completely agree with you, but that sentence is funny on several levels :D

Most liberal positions are based primarily on emotion and require one to turn off their critical thinking. As a smart legal expert (don't remember who) once said "If you have the law on your side, argue the law. If you have the facts on your side, argue the facts. If you have neither, pound on the table and yell a lot".

[cheewiee]

Most liberal positions are based primarily on emotion and require one to turn off their critical thinking.

That is one of the most astute observations I have seen in a LOOONG time..

On another board I frequent, I posted the question...

If a man ABSOLUTLY refuses to work, is it our Moral Obligation to feed said individual?

Almost instantly the question was attacked... Why is it that you republicans think poor people don't work...

After Finaly convicing them that they are reading something from the question that it doesn't ask, and reiterating them, there reply was that 'in todays society with all our advancements somone shouldn't be allowed to die of hunger.....

[ICarlson99]

And I don't say that out of smugness, but rather out of sadness (I used to be one until a few years ago when I got out of college and into the real world and started looking more closely at exactly what it was that was happening from many of these policies). There are many good, well-intentioned people (i.e. most of my immediate family) that have been intimidated or tricked because they are generally trusting of people that claim to be supporting worthy causes, but they don't look beneath the surface.

Also, there seems to be a time-warp mentality among many liberals. The older folks are still voting for FDR, and the baby boomers/60s crowd still see everything through the prism of the Civil Rights Era and Vietnam. Ironically, JFK being a tax-cutting hawk would never have seen the light of day in today's Democratic party. He was a liberal back when the word meant something positive. Now, there's no distinction between liberal and leftist.

And now, back to our thread :)

[ShineHits]

Animal rights are wrong and people are more inportant.

[musicjaytee]

I must say this is one of the most amusing threads I have ever read. I think the best was the protestor in leather shoes. HA!

[Evanescence]

Everytime they manage to have laws passed "helping" animals, it backfires...

Example:

In 1997, they managed to have Mass, ban trapping. Here's how they did it.

In Mass, they have public ballots to pass certain laws. they got enough signatures to have their initiative put on the ballot. They were likely forged or paid sigs from do-gooder, spoiled, no common sense, college students.

Once on the ballot they spent tons of money on a propaganda campaign, showing all sorts of BS about trapping. It was clearly BS but the unsuspecting public knows nothing about it, so they fell for it.

At the polls, they had more do-gooders show up with pamphlets and signs with more lies and BS while you waited to vote. Thats all it took, it was voted out and the trap was banned.

Since then, the Beaver population and gone up 1000% and animal damage complaints for all furbearers.....Coyotes, Fox, Beaver etc etc are through the roof.

The state had to hire animal damage specialists to deal with the critters and the taxpayers now pay for it. The trap wasn't perfect but it still is the only effective way to control nocturnal, predatory furbearers so that they do not damage habitat or personal property.

Again, wildlife laws should be determined by trained professionals, like wildlife biologists, not emotionally charged, hippies wanting to save the world and force their agenda down people's throats. Wildlife issues should never be dictated by emotion....but by logic and fact.

They're liars......they worse I've ever seen.....

[ICarlson99]

Issues like these have become their sole identity. Which is why they have to fight tooth and nail even in the face of clear, logical counter points. To admit being wrong would be to lose their identity. Unfortunately, this fuels their passion which good people often mistake for evidence and they are tricked into taking them at their word.

[Pouye]

Issues like these truly get under their fur. Which is why they have to fight fang and claw even in the face of clear, logical counter points. To admit being wrong would be to lose their identity. Unfortunately, this fuels their passion which good people often mistake for evidence and they are tricked into taking them at their word.

I, *uh hum* "improved" your quote above... and I agree!

Rock

[ICarlson99]

:D

Indeed! They're quite dogmatic, you sure pinned the tail on the donkey there! When those chickens come home to roost, it will be apparent they have bats in the belfry :p

This could get ugly.......

[coldcupofjoe]

*GROAN*
a

[ICarlson99]

What? We're just horsing around :cool:

Okay, okay, I'm done. But it might be hard to give it up cold turkey.

[Pouye]

What? We're just horsing around :cool:

Okay, okay, I'm done. But it might be hard to give it up cold turkey.

I think we are beating a dead horse here... but it least it gives people something to chew on. Too many people have their head in the sand when it comes to understanding heads or tails of these issues.

Rock

[WeaselInYerFoot]

What the!!

Ok, enough with the puns!

For crying out loud, it's becoming a freakin' zoo in here.

[Evanescence]

This topic has more replies than a bucket full of eels. When it comes tot he AR movement.....theres always more than one way to skin a cat.....

[Evanescence]

We love you Pam Anderson.....big boobs and no brains makes for great animal welfare discussions......LOL..... .you help out your cause so much...

TTT- For those interested on what the AR movement is really about.... :D

[WeaselInYerFoot]

oh teh ironies (http://petakillsanimals.com/petaTrial.cfm)

[lilmikey]

Well personally I think animals are just animals. I personally cant see myself wasting time joining that movement, animals have no rights they have no souls. I am not an animal hater but it boggles me that there are more people who would stand up for simple animals then the rights of unborn aborted babies who have the right to live.


It is true that animals need to be protected from harm but people go overboard with it.

[HotWireD]

It is true that animals need to be protected from harm but people go overboard with it.

Hear Hear!

[ICarlson99]

It is true that animals need to be protected from harm but people go overboard with it.

I think I understand what you mean, but protected from who harming them? Other animals? Which animals should be protected? Spiders? Only cute, fuzzy ones with four legs (animals, not spiders)? ;)

I was thinking yesterday about all the uproar about "canned" hunts, or people who hunt just for sport. I used to think, yeah, that's bad. But it occurred to me, even if the HUNTERS don't eat the animals they kill, some other animals will - so it's not like it actually gets "wasted". We shouldn't torture animals, but then again, I imagine the old animal offerings probably didn't weren't very "humane" either. Just a thought.

[mat1583]

I think I understand what you mean, but protected from who harming them? Other animals? Which animals should be protected? Spiders? Only cute, fuzzy ones with four legs (animals, not spiders)? ;)

I was thinking yesterday about all the uproar about "canned" hunts, or people who hunt just for sport. I used to think, yeah, that's bad. But it occurred to me, even if the HUNTERS don't eat the animals they kill, some other animals will - so it's not like it actually gets "wasted". We shouldn't torture animals, but then again, I imagine the old animal offerings probably didn't weren't very "humane" either. Just a thought.

The only problem I have with hunting for sport is when the species being hunted is sparsely populated and doesn't have much of a chance to repopulate if they're constantly being harvested. Granted, this is quite the opposite problem we are having in Alabama. Deer populations are so thick that seasons have been extended, limits over the season increased, etc.

And regardless if you just hunt for sport, I haven't actually heard of a significant amount of hunters that just leave their game in the field. I know many hunters, however, that will take their kill to a local butcher house. The butchers will clean the deer and then keep it in their store rooms for a while. If the hunter does not want it or does not pick it up, anybody who wants it can buy it. It's not wasteful, and a great way for someone to get deer meat if they don't want to go through the time and expense of hunting.

-washboard

[ICarlson99]

I agree with you, especially on the endangered species. Perhaps that's what the poster above meant by "protected", in which case, I'd agree with them too.

Although, if a species is endangered by other animals, what is man's responsibility?

[mat1583]

I agree with you, especially on the endangered species. Perhaps that's what the poster above meant by "protected", in which case, I'd agree with them too.

Although, if a species is endangered by other animals, what is man's responsibility?

Heh, don't get me started on endangered species and the EPA's involvement. Life would be just as great...in fact, much better without the EPA.

-washboard

[ICarlson99]

Heh, don't get me started on endangered species and the EPA's involvement. Life would be just as great...in fact, much better without the EPA.

-washboard

EPA :rolleyes: Thanks a lot, Nixon.

[Gandalf]

If the EPA at least based its regulations on solid science (as it was required to under Reagan, which requirement Clinton eliminated), it would be better... though I'm not convinced Congress really has the Constitutional right to empower the EPA to enforce such regulations at all...

[Pouye]

If the EPA at least based its regulations on solid science (as it was required to under Reagan, which requirement Clinton eliminated), it would be better... though I'm not convinced Congress really has the Constitutional right to empower the EPA to enforce such regulations at all...

I agree. It seems that government "empowerment" is happening at an alarming rate, especially at an international level. "Agencies" have been popping up all over the place in the last few decades, many of them given tremendous power. I'm not a conspiracy theory sort of guy, but there is no question that the nationalization and internationalization of powerful agencies is for the purpose of uniting world economies and instituting regulations and controls for the purpose of driving their agendas. As these agencies continue to gain power, and people continue to accept their sweeping regulations and controls as status quo, personal "rights" and "freedoms" will continue to be sacrificed for the sake of safety and convenience.

Happy in Jesus,

Rock

[Evanescence]

Well the thing is this. Agriculture and the entire outdoors/country lifestyle is under attack. We've allowed the "sophiticated" and "civilized" to get over on the country folk which has caused us to lose respect and dignity.

When people don't know or understand what happens int he real world outside of Nasdaq and Wallstreet or Hollywood, they believe anthing placed in front of them.

Tell them Beaver are endangered and they believe it. The AR movement and other Environmental groups have used this tactics for a long time. In my documentaty I uncovered the following....

1. 80% of Animal Rightists were college educated. Colleges are notorious for favoring liberal, new age thinking.

2. 90% live in a city or suburbs.

3. 80% grew up in the city or suburbs.

We have some of the safest and humane standards for hunting, trapping and fishing that ever existed. Hunters, trappers and fishermen TAX themselves thru sales of goods which go into the US Fish and Wildlife service. The service studies and researches wildlife issues. They are trained professionals, not pot smoking hippies who watch Disney and think that animals celebrate birthdays and christmas.

Canned hunts aren't the best for the hunting cause IMO. I dont have many facts on them but just like in anything, there are some unscrupulous individuals who will make money at any cost...or pay money for anything. I suspect some are fair chase....but some aren't.

In my estimation....and I have studied this extensively, MOST hunters do not waste game. Yes, some will shoot for trophy but then the meat is given away to the poor. Again, some are scumbags and make the hunting industry look bad. But, for me, the celebration of the hunt is food as well.

The AR movement bares watching......at all times....

[Evanescence]

Hey Music jay teen, over here.... :D

Musicjayteen wrote:


Number one, what does knowledge of car engines have to do with anything on this site? I don't see anything about that being anything to brag about in the Bible. Maybe I should talk about taking classes from Dr. A. Andrew Das, nationally known and esteemed Pauline expert. maybe that would make me special. But for your questions.

-----------------------------------------

It means that you have called me out and surmised that because I didn't put pics of me cuddling with babies or picking flowers, that i am a cold hearted killer....murdering baby animals or whatever......

The fact is that i have done a lot and I asked YOU if you know anything about the things that I DO. It was to point out that you were wrong in your preconceieved notion.

1. No, I'm not a vegetarian

OK........

2. Beef, chicken, pork and fish.

Yummy.......

3. The meatpacker's kill my meat. That's why I don't need to go and kill more.

True but you participate. You are an accessory to a killing. You pay others to kill. You are in the same league as a sicko like me... :D

4. I do not need qualifications from anyone...I'm a free-thinker and THAT is MY authority

I like this thinking....... :D

5. Wool

Same as fur or leather....

6. Sport, yes, I am against it.

Define sport hunting please? Also, please post your qualifications for knowing a lot about sport hunting. Hours in the field? Years hunted? How many times you went with a hunter?

7. I have yet to read anything in the Bible supporting killing for any purpose other than protection or for meal (and in all the cases I have read, the animals were farm animals raised for this purpose or there were fishermen who were in charge of catching the fish).

It doens't have to.........

It is not the weak-minded readers at fault for your insults, but the way you tend to word them, as if everyone felt the way that you do and that it is obvious fact. Rarely do you back up your opinions with any sort of reason. Instead, you demand those who disagree to prove you wrong.

I never demand anything. I challenge people to think outside the box.....something another guy did 2000 yrs ago.....I don't do it as well as he did..........

However, your money-making hunting videos do indeed make you special, as it is the goal for the life of a Christian to build big engines and sell a bunch of videos.

OUCH!! Good one. Please post any writing, research, documentaries, videos, films you have done, etc etc. Fact is, they were EDUCATIONAL videos....to make people more humane in removing nuisance animals and to also educate people on the dangers of the AR movement. What crime is that again?

I do find it amusing that you ask for my qulifications on engine building but claim yourself as your own authority (which Christ gave you). I have noticed that I am not the only one who has been offended or frustrated by your behavior on this board. But I guess that means we all lack self-esteem, since we are obviously too stubborn and weak-minded to agree with your point of view.

Too bad...for you and everyone....I respect your opinion on ME and my posts as you are educated in that......you've been here and have observed. But, your thoughts on hunting I can't as you have NO qualifications....or experience. I respect the fact that you are opposed to SOME things....things that you are convicted on. But, my guess is you are a very young girl (i think) and don't really know much about the real world or some of the things you oppose. Thats cool, but know when you jump on the wagon with the big boys, you better have some experience to back your ideas.....no need for degree's. Heck just give me something. Our discussion will bring to light the possible hypocrisy and variable associated with this topic.....animal rights.

Thank you for your honest and stern response....it shows you have a spine...and thats very noble....

E

[musicjaytee]

Question for you E, what are your qulifications as a non-hunter?
*Would you like to know about my cousin's hunting trips (with rifles), my co-worker's hunting trips (with bow and arrow), my father's frequent fishing excursions (after which I had to photograph a catch I was told was dead since it had been in the cooler for some time...it was not and was struggling for air), the many fishing shows I have watched thanks to my dad, the lures I have crafted and repaired for him, or my general sickness at animal heads on the wall.

Sport hunting: any kind of hunting in which the animal is not needed for the sole purpose of sustenance to another human being, i.e. to eat.

Also, you've done this before, and people have been irritated. My usernanme is not musicjayteen, bucko. It's musicjaytee.

As for animal rights...maybe check out proverbs 12:10.

Wool is not the same as leather or fur, seeing as how the sheep still gets to graze after the wool is harvested.

I made the comment about your pictures because your question to MCG was very condemning. You did not ask to get a response and to become more educated, you asked to prove a point.

If you'd pay a little more attention, you'd realize that i have noted that PETA is an extremist group and that they have done a great disservice to the animal rights movement.

BTW, what do you know about what I do?

[ShineHits]

I like to focus on people.

[Evanescence]

Musicjaytee writes:

Question for you E, what are your qulifications as a non-hunter?

What is it you want to know? I'm a published, represented writer, working on 5 out of my 20 book ideas, finishing up my 3rd of 7 movie scripts. Bulit high performance race engines for 7 years, am a former champion in my class and hate to shovel snow. I also get food poisoning easily. Here's the deal, you asked me....and surmised that because i posted a picture of my catches that I am some sort of cruel animal killer etc etc. I stated my credentials in regards to the outdoor activities I participate in....and I asked you for yours as if you are going to form opinions on wildlife, then you should know about what you are talking about. You have been on a few trips and have been exposed to it, so thats good for you....and your opinion.

*Would you like to know about my cousin's hunting trips (with rifles), my co-worker's hunting trips (with bow and arrow), my father's frequent fishing excursions (after which I had to photograph a catch I was told was dead since it had been in the cooler for some time...it was not and was struggling for air), the many fishing shows I have watched thanks to my dad, the lures I have crafted and repaired for him, or my general sickness at animal heads on the wall.

Yes, I would. What was the problem? Were you exposed to some sort of trauma or cruelty? As for animal heads/mounts....some like them, some don't. I like the sight of fur, leather and other RENEWABLE resources. There is little differnce between pics of a memorable hutning trip...or a deer head or furs etc etc. Its a way of rememebering the experience.

Sport hunting: any kind of hunting in which the animal is not needed for the sole purpose of sustenance to another human being, i.e. to eat.

Well by this defination, thats all hunting. That's the way the AR movement thinks. We don't NEED to eat animals. It's OK for animals to kill and eat each other...but not humans. We can eat vegetables and should only kill in the most extreme of conditions.....in an emergency. Fact is, probably .000000001 of a percent of hunters kill for the sake of killing. I don't have any facts in front of me but from my research and personal delaings with guides, hunters and others in the hunting industry, very few hunters are trophy hunters, killing and leaving the rest lay. fact is, almost every state int he US has laws against killing and wasting. I am totally against that kind of thing. BUT, if a guy can go hunting, enjoy the chase, harvest game and provide meat for someone...himself or his neighbor, then why not. Hunting is NOT about the kill...but the chase....the romance of the experience.

Also, you've done this before, and people have been irritated. My usernanme is not musicjayteen, bucko. It's musicjaytee.

That was an honest accident....I'm glad you are concentrating on the topic at hand and can take a joke...

As for animal rights...maybe check out proverbs 12:10.

Looked it up. I agree and its a good point. We should define cruelty. Websters says, "To Bring strife and/or suffering on something"... A college professor I studied says..."Intentionally bring suffering to an animal or person as a means of personal satisfaction...." I like this better and think it means more sense. According to Websters, we're all guilty, all the time. We shouldn't drive because we can hurt or scare animals....what about those bugs that bounce of our cars.....or animals that run from fear of our cars...??

If you want to know what the bible says about ARs...check out: Rom: 14:2-4 and especially.... 1 Tim: 1-5. Also, the bible is full of warnings about idol worship. Animalism is a false religion....as is the Animal Rights movement. How can anyone deny the corrolation between AR, athesist and/or the Occult/Witchcraft. Wanna see my research?

Wool is not the same as leather or fur, seeing as how the sheep still gets to graze after the wool is harvested.

True, but I am sure you wear Leather? You eat farm raised meats...so, do you realize how animals are slaughtered in a slaughterhouse......the people YOU pay....the killings YOU are responsible for? Do you know how Pigs and Cows die? I will say that i firmly believe the USDA needs to clean up these slaughterhouses. Thats the problem with the AR movement, they have GOOD ideas and info at times....but no one takes them seriously. It's a good thing as their whole agenda is to end ALL animals use....including owning pets. I agree with many in the AR community....slaughter houses need to be checked more frequently and cleaned up. Also, do you relly know what you're eating? Do you know about the hormones and such they give farm raised animals? My deer don't have that problem.... :D

I made the comment about your pictures because your question to MCG was very condemning. You did not ask to get a response and to become more educated, you asked to prove a point.

You made the comment because you don't like hunting and are a closet Animal Rightists. All the things you mention indicate it. My guess is you are confused about it and are trying to stay in the middle of the road. Do as you wish, but you can't worship God and a false religion too. I caution you, this is a dangerous path...a dangerous movement.....filled with lies and deception, like no other. I caught your comment about PETA and thats great. But, you called me out and asked me questions as have I of you. The fact is this. This country was founded on the Fur trade and the Cattle industry. Our ancestors hunted, trapped and fished and thats how we got here. To condemn hunting is to spit in the face of our forefathers...and our family, who worked hard to put food on the table. Running through your veins is the nutrients and DNA of hunts gone by...of fishing trips gone by. I'm not sure what your EXACT stance is on hunting..... and maybe your not either. I'm not saying people need to hunt or fish.....or its wrong of they dont.....but I also don't appreciate people tellin g me I shouldn't. Especially when they pay people to kill for them. There is no difference. We're just going through the motions from being at the top of the food chain. Take care- E

If you'd pay a little more attention, you'd realize that i have noted that PETA is an extremist group and that they have done a great disservice to the animal rights movement.

BTW, what do you know about what I do?

[bdfwinn]

Hey I just read all of these and it looks like it touched off a nerve or two.

Here is an interesting organization a member of my church belongs to and a letter from the founder. Since its inception FHFH has given over 282 tons of meat to the hungry including to Katrina victims.
http://www.fhfh.org/founder.html

Hunting and fishing is fun. Wild game is not pumped full of growth hormones like the meat in the store (except organic meats)

I rember once I got an email from PETA and Jesus' likeness was in the add and they were claiming that He was a veggie.
Hello Last Supper... traditional Hebrew style was to eat a lamb.

Its all about stewardship.
I grew up on a farm and my father would say... Environmentalists put the land before man ,and conservationists put man before the land.

He believed in Godly stewardship and I believe the problem with most environmentalists is that they have never had their hands in the soil to see that it requires man's ATTENTION and care not his negligence.

The radical enviros would have man just leave nature to itself... not refer you to the second law of thermo-dynamics.
Entopy is increasing.

Great reading though.

[Evanescence]

Here's the whole thing in a nutshell:

Everything in this world is backwards today. Wrong is right and right is wrong. The bible predicts this. 30 Years ago 20% of the US was involved in Agriculture....farming for those city slickers out there. Now its less that 5%.

100 Years ago, a hunter or trapper was considered to be a wise resourseful man....a gatherer. Hunters brought food to the poor....their excess game or just out of kindness. We are ALL here from Hunting, Fishing and Trapping....its our heritage...every one of us. Now, we are villains and joked about on late night TV. Farmers, hunters and country folk are laughed at...all until the fat a$$, joke teller sits to eat his fat meal and feed his face.

The bible says..."Idol hands are the devils workshop," and thats the truth. When i was a boy, trapping, fishing and hunting kept me out of trouble. Kids were smoking weed and drinking....getting into trouble....and I was figuring out dispersal patterns of Red Fox.

Here's a statement I stand by: Kids that are raised in the outdoors, IE- Hunting, trapping and Fishing, are far less likely to get into trouble.

Another: Take your kid hunting, so you dont have to go hunting for your kid....

Kids raised in the outdoors and live the life wont be worried about getting tattoos, smoking weed, doing drugs spray painting walls, raising hell and/or getting pregnant. I'm NOT saying all is perfect here in the country...by no means. But the majority of the problems with this country come from the metropolitan, cities and suburbs. The statistics clearly show this. And...no I don't have them in front of me.....heck its common sense....

We hunters, fishers, trappers aren't trying to stop Veggies from eating veggies.....and we don't want them to stop us from eating meat....

Lastly, if killing animals in anyway, shape or form was wrong by God...SIN...wouldn't it be clear in the bible? Wouldn't Christ have talked about it? To the contrary, the bible speaks of deceptive thinking....and especially idol worship. The Animal Rights movement IS a false religion and worships animals. They lie, cheat and steal for them...for their agenda. Virtually NONE of them are Christian...or believe in God and SOME.....5% or so are into Witchcraft/the Occult. This is FACT....not a hunter spewing propaganda.

We think we're getting smarter with technology, computers, science etc etc, but really we're getting dumber. Common sense takes a back seat to recreation and deception.

Some of us can have Masters degree's but can't even tie our own shoes.... :cool:

[Evanescence]

I rember once I got an email from PETA and Jesus' likeness was in the add and they were claiming that He was a veggie.

bdfwinn, I like your post. Respectful and to the point...good points made.

Yeah, PETA got some Reverend so-and-so to make a comment about being kind to animals....then they started this campaign...."Jesus was a Vegetarian"

They excel at brainwashing the weakminded....KIDS in schools...which burns me up.....but they brainwash the unsuspecting and uneducated with crap like this. Then we have some do-gooder in churches pushing AR crap all to get people to sign up with PETA....members equals $$$$$$$$

The idiot do-gooder is too dumb to realize he/she...usually... she, is spreading lies and assisting in the forward movement of a false religion.

Here's the link: www.jesuswasavegetarian.c om

Its clever marketing.....Christians in large numbers...equals members...equals...$$$$$$ $$$$$

[Drummer Dude Go]

I'm in favor of using common sense. PETA has shown themselves to be extremists. However, if they are right that some very cruel things are being done in places that raise chickens or cows, then perhaps we should see if there is something that can be done. Problem is, when PETA is the ones reporting such abuses, nobody takes them seriously, except other PETA members.

For the record, animals don't have rights. Rights come with responsibilities. Humans have a responsibility to avoid cruelty to animals if they can. Where that line is drawn is something I have no answer for.
I recently read a little blurb in the Montgomery newspaper that Pamela Anderson is supporting a PETA boycott of KFC because they supposedly treat thier chickens in bad ways. OK, I am all for protecting, say, fluffy the family dog, and all pets, but , get real, theyre going to kill the chickens, and we will eat them, so who cares how they are treated before we eat them? It doesnt matter!! And its not like she's boycotting all chicken places, so she probably still eats chicken, which, according to her standards would probably be cruel too! I have also heard of boycotts on steakhouses, but they usually dont last very long. (I guess they finally break down and eat steak, and then theyre not boycotting the steakhouse anymore!) There's an interesting website about the boycott at: www.KentuckyFriedCruelty. org
I personally believe that animals were created by God to feed humans, and that humans should rule over them and eat them. We shouldnt place them above humans, but we should treat all pets with some respect, but the animals we eat, theyre going to die anyway, so they wont care how theyre treated, and most animals are treated very well.-Go 24/48!! God Bless You!!
:cool:

[mat1583]

I recently read a little blurb in the Montgomery newspaper that Pamela Anderson is supporting a PETA boycott of KFC because they supposedly treat thier chickens in bad ways. OK, I am all for protecting, say, fluffy the family dog, and all pets, but , get real, theyre going to kill the chickens, and we will eat them, so who cares how they are treated before we eat them? It doesnt matter!! And its not like she's boycotting all chicken places, so she probably still eats chicken, which, according to her standards would probably be cruel too! I have also heard of boycotts on steakhouses, but they usually dont last very long. (I guess they finally break down and eat steak, and then theyre not boycotting the steakhouse anymore!) There's an interesting website about the boycott at: www.KentuckyFriedCruelty. org
I personally believe that animals were created by God to feed humans, and that humans should rule over them and eat them. We shouldnt place them above humans, but we should treat all pets with some respect, but the animals we eat, theyre going to die anyway, so they wont care how theyre treated, and most animals are treated very well.-Go 24/48!! God Bless You!!
:cool:


I think there's still a line to be drawn in what defines cruel treatment and what should be allowed and shouldn't be allowed. For instance, I wouldn't say it's ok for someone to skin an animal while it is still alive (and yes, this does go on). I wouldn't want someone to pluck a chicken while it was alive either. I love all kinds of meats, but there is a point where I would have to say "Hey, I don't like how your business operates, so I will take my business elsewhere." Just because we rule over the animal kingdom doesn't give us the right to do whatever we want to animals including torture/abuse.

P.S. don't get me confused with PETA. I DESPISE them and what they're for. I just think animals should not be treated in a cruel manner regardless if they're going on the dinner plate or in a home as a pet.

-washboard

[Pouye]

I think there's still a line to be drawn in what defines cruel treatment and what should be allowed and shouldn't be allowed. For instance, I wouldn't say it's ok for someone to skin an animal while it is still alive (and yes, this does go on). I wouldn't want someone to pluck a chicken while it was alive either. I love all kinds of meats, but there is a point where I would have to say "Hey, I don't like how your business operates, so I will take my business elsewhere." Just because we rule over the animal kingdom doesn't give us the right to do whatever we want to animals including torture/abuse.

P.S. don't get me confused with PETA. I DESPISE them and what they're for. I just think animals should not be treated in a cruel manner regardless if they're going on the dinner plate or in a home as a pet.

-washboard

I agree with you. I grew up on a small farm, and we always treated our animals with respect. However, there is really no "nice" way to kill an animal, just more humane ways (as quick and painless as possible).

However, I've seen this taken to extremes. In Australia, for instance, there was a debate about dumping live shellfish into boiling water (in fact, I'm not sure if it is still done at factories). That method would kill anything pretty fast, but I'm sure it isn't painless for that .05 seconds. Some agencies were recommending drowning (yes, you heard me right) the shellfish instead, by running fast moving, excessively oxygenated water over them. I'm not sure if shellfish feel more pain boiling or drowning, and it is hard to ask them, you know? ;)

I'm not opposed to methods that are very quick. I know it sounds non-compassionate to kill ANYTHING, but I think some people have misguided compassion. Humans are simply more important than animals, and God is the one who set up the idea of using animals for food.

God said:
"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." Genesis 9:3

Rock

[ICarlson99]

I'm with both you guys - it's proper to kill and use animals for our benefit, but it should be done respectfully. We clearly have dominion over the animals, but that authority must include respect and appreciation for God's creation.

It's a fine line when you look at mass processing of animals. On the one hand, they do provide more access to affordable meat which has practical benefits. On the other hand, if the animals are kept in unsanitary conditions, not only is it disrespectful to the animals, it's unhealthy for the humans. I think we can all agree there are conditions that are unacceptable (i.e. chickens overstuffed in cages to the point they can't move) - but where the line is drawn, I don't know.

But no way am I going to fall for the argument that we can't kill animals because of their feelings. The feelings of animals don't really matter, it's the lack of respect for God's creation and certain unhealthy conditions that matter (and, like most things, going against God's plan tends to result in unhealthy conditions for us).

[Pouye]

I'm with both you guys - it's proper to kill and use animals for our benefit, but it should be done respectfully. We clearly have dominion over the animals, but that authority must include respect and appreciation for God's creation.

It's a fine line when you look at mass processing of animals. On the one hand, they do provide more access to affordable meat which has practical benefits. On the other hand, if the animals are kept in unsanitary conditions, not only is it disrespectful to the animals, it's unhealthy for the humans. I think we can all agree there are conditions that are unacceptable (i.e. chickens overstuffed in cages to the point they can't move) - but where the line is drawn, I don't know.

But no way am I going to fall for the argument that we can't kill animals because of their feelings. The feelings of animals don't really matter, it's the lack of respect for God's creation and certain unhealthy conditions that matter (and, like most things, going against God's plan tends to result in unhealthy conditions for us).

Have you always been so reasonable?

I couldn't agree more.

Rock

[ICarlson99]

Have you always been so reasonable?

I couldn't agree more.

Rock

I'd like to say yes, but there'd be a lightning bolt with my name on it :D

[musicjaytee]

I'm with both you guys - it's proper to kill and use animals for our benefit, but it should be done respectfully. We clearly have dominion over the animals, but that authority must include respect and appreciation for God's creation.

It's a fine line when you look at mass processing of animals. On the one hand, they do provide more access to affordable meat which has practical benefits. On the other hand, if the animals are kept in unsanitary conditions, not only is it disrespectful to the animals, it's unhealthy for the humans. I think we can all agree there are conditions that are unacceptable (i.e. chickens overstuffed in cages to the point they can't move) - but where the line is drawn, I don't know.

But no way am I going to fall for the argument that we can't kill animals because of their feelings. The feelings of animals don't really matter, it's the lack of respect for God's creation and certain unhealthy conditions that matter (and, like most things, going against God's plan tends to result in unhealthy conditions for us).
Thank you for the words I apparantly couldn't find. Not once did I say that hunting is sinful. All I said was that the Bible doesn't say go out and kill at will, waving weapons like a bunch of blood thirsty lunatics. What do I find to be a traumatic experience with hunting? People who can't hit the target right and instead of killing the animal, maim it, forcing it to lie in pain and fear while it waits for the unskilled hunter to finish it off. That's my problem with hunting. Do I think all (or even have the knowledge to claim most) hunters are unskilled shots? No. But I can say that many are.

I don't believe Jesus was a vegetarian at all. Unless you're one of those people who doesn't consider fish to be meat, Jesus ate meat (I'm sure there are other meats, but that's the first that I can think of that the Bible says Jesus ate).

And E, just because most of the people in the AR movement have college degrees doesn't mean that a degree makes you a closet animal rightist. I used to go fishing with my dad all the time, untill I was about 13. I stopped after accidently catching one by its eye, and when we tried to pull the hook out, it tore the eye out with it. All the 'big boys' around just shrugged it of, saying it happens. If that 'happens', then I do find it to be a horrid practice. I had the salmon my dad caught in Michingan, and it was good. I couldn't look at it after he caught it, or I couldn't have eaten it. However, I know that as soon as the fish was in the boat, the captain killed it immediately (I didn't care to know how, but it was quick). I couldn't even try the catfish he caught, since it was still alive (unbeknownst to him) when he brought it home. College degree or not, I am entitled to my own opinion about this topic, and your choice of pictures. You could have very easily cropped the picture so that there wasn't bloody carcass included.

Do not refer to me as a closet anything. I believe animals are not to be abused in any way. Does that mean they shouldn't be eaten, no.

[musicjaytee]

To add a note about the shellfish boiling deal: my mom told me something that has prevented me from ever eating lobster.

If you don't put a lobster into the pot of water head first, it screams.

[ICarlson99]

To add a note about the shellfish boiling deal: my mom told me something that has prevented me from ever eating lobster.

If you don't put a lobster into the pot of water head first, it screams.

I've never been a big seafood fan (couldn't deal with the sliminess of it) - but this sounds like (no offense to you or your mom) an old wives' tale. I looked up some lobster cooking sites on the internet (my idea of scientific data gathering :p ), and they mention that if you put them in tail first their claws can splash boiling water on you - thus, do it headfirst. My gut tells me the "screaming" lobster claim was more so just to scare kids into doing it the right way. But I could be completely wrong.

[ICarlson99]

More "data":

http://www.gilmoreseafood.com/lobsterinfo.html

(By the way, lobsters do not have vocal cords and thus do not scream or vocalize when cooked. Any sound you hear could be that of air escaping from the lobster's body cavity as it expands from heating.)

http://www.csl.sri.com/users/mwfong/Recipes/Shellfish,_Preparing/#lobster

"Contrary to popular belief, lobsters do not scream as they are being boiled. Occasionally, a slight whistle can be heard when lobsters are placed in boiling water.But this is no cry of pain, it is the sound of their shells contracting. "

There's about a gazillion more, I just searched in Yahoo under "lobster tail first scream" :D - but it's nice to know my "wive's tale" compass is still functional :cool:

[musicjaytee]

I've never been a big seafood fan (couldn't deal with the sliminess of it) - but this sounds like (no offense to you or your mom) an old wives' tale. I looked up some lobster cooking sites on the internet (my idea of scientific data gathering :p ), and they mention that if you put them in tail first their claws can splash boiling water on you - thus, do it headfirst. My gut tells me the "screaming" lobster claim was more so just to scare kids into doing it the right way. But I could be completely wrong.
I was trying to remember if she had it happen to her or not, but I couldn't remember. I do admit that sometimes my mom can 'mishear' stuff, so you very well may be right. However, if they try and splash water, it seems like it isn't a painless death. Anyone here ever put a lobster in tail first?

[musicjaytee]

More "data":

http://www.gilmoreseafood.com/lobsterinfo.html

(By the way, lobsters do not have vocal cords and thus do not scream or vocalize when cooked. Any sound you hear could be that of air escaping from the lobster's body cavity as it expands from heating.)

http://www.csl.sri.com/users/mwfong/Recipes/Shellfish,_Preparing/#lobster

"Contrary to popular belief, lobsters do not scream as they are being boiled. Occasionally, a slight whistle can be heard when lobsters are placed in boiling water.But this is no cry of pain, it is the sound of their shells contracting. "

There's about a gazillion more, I just searched in Yahoo under "lobster tail first scream" :D - but it's nice to know my "wive's tale" compass is still functional :cool:
Hehe...I asked before you posted. Still gives me the hebejebes.

[ICarlson99]

I was trying to remember if she had it happen to her or not, but I couldn't remember. I do admit that sometimes my mom can 'mishear' stuff, so you very well may be right. However, if they try and splash water, it seems like it isn't a painless death. Anyone here ever put a lobster in tail first?

I think everyone's mom has a handful of those. My grandma could probably write a whole book of that stuff :D

It may very well be painful to the lobster - but as Rock said before, the idea should be to minimize that as much as is reasonably possible, not completely eliminate it.

[mat1583]

I used to go fishing with my dad all the time, untill I was about 13. I stopped after accidently catching one by its eye, and when we tried to pull the hook out, it tore the eye out with it. All the 'big boys' around just shrugged it of, saying it happens. If that 'happens', then I do find it to be a horrid practice.

I'm not criticizing your choice not to fish, but if I stopped fishing for that reason you posted, then I would also have to stop driving as well. If you think about it, when people drive there is a chance of hitting an animal and maiming it, possibly making it die a slow and painful death. Sometimes this "happens", but I'm not going to stop driving just because there's the chance it could happen.

I've been a fisherman since I can remember, and I distinctly remember maybe 2 or three times I've fished that what you said has happened. It's not that I meant for it to happen, it just did.

I definitely agree with you on the hunting aspect. That's one reason that I believe it's very important for a hunter to be educated about the kill zone of an animal and where the most lethal shot can be taken. I also think it's important for the guns to be sighted and for the hunter to have some target practice at a range. All these things will help lead to a successful and clean kill.

-washboard

[Pouye]

I definitely agree with you on the hunting aspect. That's one reason that I believe it's very important for a hunter to be educated about the kill zone of an animal and where the most lethal shot can be taken. I also think it's important for the guns to be sighted and for the hunter to have some target practice at a range. All these things will help lead to a successful and clean kill.


All these things are great, but hunting is difficult. I've hunted much of my life, and it isn't easy to get a clean shot, even when conditions are ideal. There are so many variables that can cause an animal to end up wounded, rather than killed "cleanly".

One thing I would like to add, is that it is State departments that encourage hunting and fishing. When people do not hunt and/or fish, it is not benificial to the game or the fish, since overpopulation and starvation is also very cruel, not to mention animals getting run over by cars. The deer population on the Island I live on when I'm in the States is way to high. The County has literally advertised for hunters, since their are no natural predators on the Island besides humans and an occasional coyote.

I think it is wrong to be too hard on hunters for not getting a perfect shot every time, just like fisherman sometimes hook fish in the eyeball. When a person is trying to kill another animal, it isn't pretty... but it isn't sin, either, even if they wound them in the process and they slink off and die. Hunters never intentionally wound an animal so it escapes and dies somewhere. Most of the hunters I know are skilled with their weapons and practice.

Rock

[ICarlson99]

All these things are great, but hunting is difficult. I've hunted much of my life, and it isn't easy to get a clean shot, even when conditions are ideal. There are so many variables that can cause an animal to end up wounded, rather than killed "cleanly".

One thing I would like to add, is that it is State departments that encourage hunting and fishing. When people do not hunt and/or fish, it is not benificial to the game or the fish, since overpopulation and starvation is also very cruel, not to mention animals getting run over by cars. The deer population on the Island I live on when I'm in the States is way to high. The County has literally advertised for hunters, since their are no natural predators on the Island besides humans and an occasional coyote.

I think it is wrong to be too hard on hunters for not getting a perfect shot every time, just like fisherman sometimes hook fish in the eyeball. When a person is trying to kill another animal, it isn't pretty... but it isn't sin, either, even if they wound them in the process and they slink off and die. Hunters never intentionally wound an animal so it escapes and dies somewhere. Most of the hunters I know are skilled with their weapons and practice.

Rock

Overpopulation was very true in the greater Atlanta area this year with deer. There was one week (during mating season I'm told - I'm not a hunter) where I saw 3 deer that had been hit by cars on my drive to work.

The methods nowadays can't be any less humane than hundreds of years ago - I doubt every arrow/spear/slingshot hit the perfect spot. I think we have to do our best and understand that not everything is perfect. We can have a goal to be as humane as possible, and feel bad if it doesn't work out (i.e. a fish hook in the eyeball or a non-kill shot), and just do our best to end it quickly.

[Pouye]

Overpopulation was very true in the greater Atlanta area this year with deer. There was one week (during mating season I'm told - I'm not a hunter) where I saw 3 deer that had been hit by cars on my drive to work.

The methods nowadays can't be any less humane than hundreds of years ago - I doubt every arrow/spear/slingshot hit the perfect spot. I think we have to do our best and understand that not everything is perfect. We can have a goal to be as humane as possible, and feel bad if it doesn't work out (i.e. a fish hook in the eyeball or a non-kill shot), and just do our best to end it quickly.

Or we could just protest hunters and fishmen, eat veggies, wear cotton and hug bunnies. We could grow apple trees and honey bees and snow white turtle doves, and buy the world a joint, er I mean a coke and make love, not war. :D

Rock

[Gandalf]

Sounds great, until the Africanized bees take over ;)

[ICarlson99]

Or we could just protest hunters and fishmen, eat veggies, wear cotton and hug bunnies. We could grow apple trees and honey bees and snow white turtle doves, and buy the world a joint, er I mean a coke and make love, not war. :D

Rock

That's just what the bunnies want. Then, gradually they become super bunnies with more power than you and I could ever imagine. This is all propaganda from the great bunny war machine.

And here is the secret leader - is anyone surprised he's from GERMANY?!?!?!

http://www.i-pets.com/blog/2006/02/monster-bunny.html

:D

[Pouye]

That's just what the bunnies want. Then, gradually they become super bunnies with more power than you and I could ever imagine. This is all propaganda from the great bunny war machine.

And here is the secret leader - is anyone surprised he's from GERMANY?!?!?!

http://www.i-pets.com/blog/2006/02/monster-bunny.html

:D

I want one of those! Just one would make a fine fur coat for my daughter, and feed 16 people! :D

Rock

[Drummer Dude Go]

"I agree with you. I grew up on a small farm, and we always treated our animals with respect. However, there is really no "nice" way to kill an animal, just more humane ways (as quick and painless as possible).


I'm not opposed to methods that are very quick. I know it sounds non-compassionate to kill ANYTHING, but I think some people have misguided compassion. Humans are simply more important than animals, and God is the one who set up the idea of using animals for food.
God said:
"Everything that lives and moves will be food for you. Just as I gave you the green plants, I now give you everything." Genesis 9:3"
(The quote thing messed up! The above statements are not mine, but the stuff below is my own opinion, like it or not!)

Thats exactly what I am saying! God made animals for us to eat, and killing them is sort of cruel no matter how you kill them, but we shouldnt abuse animals, we should treat them with kindness, but we shouldnt treat them as if they are equal with humans, becasuse they are not!!
PS: Chicken, Pig, and Cow are very tasty when cooked!! :p

[Evanescence]

Peta and the HSUS wiggle their way into schools..."educating" children. Of course they do this for free and the schools don't mind the free programs. This is how they begin the process of brainwashing......

"A Rat is a Pig is a Boy is a Mouse....we're all animals," Ingrid Newkirk-PETA

Where I come from, if you call my kid a rat, you might get your teeth kicked in..... :mad: :mad: :mad:

E

[musicjaytee]

Where I come from, if you call my kid a rat, you might get your teeth kicked in..... :mad: :mad: :mad:
E
Hmmmm...it depends on the kid ;)

[chiefbosun14]

I live in Norfolk and PETA is headquatered here. I am not a big fan of them or other activists of taht kind. I like to eat meat and hunt and fish. I was once accosted by 2 PETA people while fishing with my son. They started telling me how wrong I was for fishing and teaching my son to cause useless pain on fish. When I told them to get moving or I will cause them some pain they got all angry until I reached into my boot and they saw that I was serious. the one guy was in teh Navy too. That really got my goat. His wife was alittle upset when I walked out to their car and told the kid that I was a Chief petty officer and that he really should not be messing around cause he could really get hurt or worse.

[TheBus36(Retired)]

These are always so fun to read. What a bunch of uptight people. Brian, I can't believe you actually posted here. I stayed clear of this one until now. I have been laughing so hard going through and reading some of these things. Get a life folks.

[Evanescence]

These are always so fun to read. What a bunch of uptight people. Brian, I can't believe you actually posted here. I stayed clear of this one until now. I have been laughing so hard going through and reading some of these things. Get a life folks.

The wise will look at all topics and see that some have long lasting implications that can cause pain, strife and moral decay in our society thus creating a haven for people distancing themselves from God, destructive activities and perhaps the ultimate demise of a society.

The unwise scoff......

[TheBus36(Retired)]

These are always so fun to read. What a bunch of uptight people. Brian, I can't believe you actually posted here. I stayed clear of this one until now. I have been laughing so hard going through and reading some of these things. Get a life folks.

The wise will look at all topics and see that some have long lasting implications that can cause pain, strife and moral decay in our society thus creating a haven for people distancing themselves from God, destructive activities and perhaps the ultimate demise of a society.

The unwise scoff......

I don't believe I will be distancing myself from God because I'm having a burger tonight.:eek:

[Evanescence]

No, but when a group of people 95% of which don't believe in God, begin to influence and teach our childrn, its time to sit up and take notice.

Evil is always subtle and creeps in.....like a theif in the night....

E

[TheBus36(Retired)]

No, but when a group of people 95% of which don't believe in God, begin to influence and teach our childrn, its time to sit up and take notice.

Evil is always subtle and creeps in.....like a theif in the night....

E

Wow

[spanishfly]

I just think that they need something better to do with their lives. They really think they showing nasty pictures of animals cruelty is not gonna stop people from buying real fur or and buying leather shoes. well sorry thats alll i could say now i'll continue this later

[spanishfly]

Animals have every right in the world......to be killed, deep fried and put on a plate in front of me.

I always hate the argument "They are raised soley to be killed and eaten." Let's face facts people; they didn't really have many aspirations to be doctors and teachers.
thats true

[rcol4jc]

Ok... you flushed me out. But SOMEBODY needed to disagree. :D

Rock

Rock, you had me going!!!

[rcol4jc]

.... I just cant believe some people actually murder vegetables... I mean, what did that head of lettuce ever do to them? I propose a new organization... the Vegetable Rights Group...to protect these helpless, living things... no more gardens!...no more gardens!... protect the plants! power to the plankton! eat meat not asparagus! ... man all this protesting has made me hungry... double cheeseburger please! What!... No,I dont want fries with that - you barbarian! ( The nerve of some people! ) ;) :p

ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!

[rcol4jc]

Animals do have rights. Who protects us and who takes care of us. Our animals do. Animals have the right to kill somebody who attacks them. Animals have just as many rights as humans do. Some say animals dont have spirits..but my animals' spirit is what keeps me alive. If I did not have my animals there to comfort me when the rest of the world ignores me..i dunno where i'd be. But, than again, this is just my opinion. I'm an animal extremist. I agree with the PETA. Even though they put all of their heart and soul into trying to prevent animal abuse, they still get made fun of and beaten up over it. Put yourselves in an animals shoes. If you were getting abused and neglected you'd want it to stop. And I know you would because nobody likes getting abused. The PETA are just trying to prevent that so stop ragging on them because you dont know what its like to be one of them. It's probably extremely hard. k. bye
~LaDena~

La Dena, it really hurts to know that the only your animals have been there to comfort you many times. I don't know your background and if you have truly trusted in Jesus as your Savior. If you have not, please accept my apologies for my brothers and sisters in Christ who have not extended a hand of love and compassion to you and I would be honored if you would allow me to extend that hand to you now. My email is rcol4jc@hotmail.com. I would be honored to try to build a friendship with you. We as Christians sometimes forget that our first job is showing the Love of our Savior to the world. If any of us (Christians) have offended you, we humbly ask your forgiveness. My fiance and I would, again, be honored to be a friend to you.

If you have believed in Jesus, then, as your brother in Christ, I extend my hand to you now also. I would be honored to build a friendship with you. See my email address above. I'm sorry the family of faith has not surrounded you with love and compassion and friendship.


EVERYONE ELSE PLS HEAR THIS: Although I CANNOT and WILL NOT agree with Peta and their idealogy and actions in any way shape or form, I would stand up and call for the prosecution of anyone who would abuse and torture animals. I would also call for a psychological evaluation of that person. Anyone who would needlessly torture a defenseless animal shows a total lack of compassion for living things in general. I would not let this person anywhere near children, the elderly, or anyone else who could not defend themselves physically. To put it bluntly, I wonder if that person's "elevator" gets to the top floor. Not only that, we all must take care of God's property (the earth, the universe and all its contents). If we don't, we are not being good Asset managers (Stewards as the Bible puts it). God will call us to give an account one day.

[TheBus36(Retired)]

La Dena, it really hurts to know that the only your animals have been there to comfort you many times. I don't know your background and if you have truly trusted in Jesus as your Savior. If you have not, please accept my apologies for my brothers and sisters in Christ who have not extended a hand of love and compassion to you and I would be honored if you would allow me to extend that hand to you now. My email is rcol4jc@hotmail.com. I would be honored to try to build a friendship with you. We as Christians sometimes forget that our first job is showing the Love of our Savior to the world. If any of us (Christians) have offended you, we humbly ask your forgiveness. My fiance and I would, again, be honored to be a friend to you.

If you have believed in Jesus, then, as your brother in Christ, I extend my hand to you now also. I would be honored to build a friendship with you. See my email address above. I'm sorry the family of faith has not surrounded you with love and compassion and friendship.


EVERYONE ELSE PLS HEAR THIS: Although I CANNOT and WILL NOT agree with Peta and their idealogy and actions in any way shape or form, I would stand up and call for the prosecution of anyone who would abuse and torture animals. I would also call for a psychological evaluation of that person. Anyone who would needlessly torture a defenseless animal shows a total lack of compassion for living things in general. I would not let this person anywhere near children, the elderly, or anyone else who could not defend themselves physically. To put it bluntly, I wonder if that person's "elevator" gets to the top floor. Not only that, we all must take care of God's property (the earth, the universe and all its contents). If we don't, we are not being good Asset managers (Stewards as the Bible puts it). God will call us to give an account one day.

I know we joke and sometimes have fun with these opinionated threads, sometimes for nothing more than getting the author all fired up. However, putting aside all the "I had steak for dinner jokes", you made a wonderful and articulate point. Great post!