supreme court

[jesusnewspaper]

YAY! christians have majotity w/ one more nomination!

[Howlin' Wolf]

oh brother!

[Gandalf]

It's not about Christians having a majority; justices who would impose their ideology rather than interpreting the Constitution are not desirable, whatever their ideology, since it throws off the balance of powers between the branches of government. Fortunately, the recent picks are judicial conservatives, who will not likely try to usurp the authority of the legislative branch.

[Howlin' Wolf]

It's not about Christians having a majority; justices who would impose their ideology rather than interpreting the Constitution are not desirable, whatever their ideology, since it throws off the balance of powers between the branches of government. Fortunately, the recent picks are judicial conservatives, who will not likely try to usurp the authority of the legislative branch.


i cringe at the thought of justices using the mosaic law to govern

[Gandalf]

That's a scary thought!

[Howlin' Wolf]

That's a scary thought!


it is very scary, especially in light of theonomy and its prevelance in older conservative generations

[Gandalf]

Yeah... though I doubt there are many theonomists who'd be considered qualified for a Supreme Court (or even other federal judicial) appointment.

[Howlin' Wolf]

Yeah... though I doubt there are many theonomists who'd be considered qualified for a Supreme Court (or even other federal judicial) appointment.
oh i know that, however, one glance on these here boards and you see a call for christians in leadership that will bring america back to its "christian" roots. and while they dont hold to the letter of the mosaic law, i myself, would not want to live in a society where christian principles are used to govern.

[Gandalf]

Eh... not so sure I agree with you there. Governing based on godly principles leads to just government, and is completely different from implementing religious law such as Islam advocates.

[Howlin' Wolf]

Eh... not so sure I agree with you there. Governing based on godly principles leads to just government, and is completely different from implementing religious law such as Islam advocates.

but at what point do godly principles end up on a ban on all secular music, rated r movies, alcohol, and the like?

christianity is a religion that is ruled by grace and love, and therefore it is powerless in ruling a society. islam and judaism and political factions just as much as they are religions, and their holy books give guidelines on how to govern and be governed. the NT does no such thing. rules are replaced with grace. the law is fulfilled with Christ. sin, a tangible objective thing, was renedered subjective in the NT

[mcgreen311]

but at what point do godly principles end up on a ban on all secular music, rated r movies, alcohol, and the like?

christianity is a religion that is ruled by grace and love, and therefore it is powerless in ruling a society. islam and judaism and political factions just as much as they are religions, and their holy books give guidelines on how to govern and be governed. the NT does no such thing. rules are replaced with grace. the law is fulfilled with Christ. sin, a tangible objective thing, was renedered subjective in the NT

Just out of curiosity, what principles do you think should be the basis of a ruling society? I agree that we run the risk of a legalistic government, which is why I'm concerned about amending the constitution and other things, but the principles of a civilized society would originate with God.

[Howlin' Wolf]

Just out of curiosity, what principles do you think should be the basis of a ruling society? I agree that we run the risk of a legalistic government, which is why I'm concerned about amending the constitution and other things, but the principles of a civilized society would originate with God.

just principles

and while God is the epitomy of justice, it doesnt take someone being a chirstian to know what justice is. the problem with fallwell, robertson, and most of the people on these boards, is that they want life to go back to the way it was in the fifties, where everybody went to church, prayer was in schools, the divorce rate was low and homosexuals had no rights. life was supposedly peachy if you were white back then. but in reality, the problems that our society faces today arent fixed by re-instating prayer in schools, banning gay marriage, and whatever else the right is clamoring for. the government can rule justly with a full seperation of church and state

[mcgreen311]

just principles

While I agree that banning gay marriage is probably just a temporary band-aid on the problem, and reinstating prayer in schools would stir up other problems on its own, I think we still have to acknowledge (which you have) that it originates with God.

If I'm interpreting your post right, are you saying that everyone has an innate sense of justice. I'll go a step further: If it infringes on someone else it is injustice and if it doesn't then it is justice and the morality outside of those bounds would be between you and God. (Let me know if I'm extrapolating too much from your post)
All this talk of justice makes me want to re-read Republic.

[Howlin' Wolf]

While I agree that banning gay marriage is probably just a temporary band-aid on the problem, and reinstating prayer in schools would stir up other problems on its own, I think we still have to acknowledge (which you have) that it originates with God.

If I'm interpreting your post right, are you saying that everyone has an innate sense of justice. I'll go a step further: If it infringes on someone else it is injustice and if it doesn't then it is justice and the morality outside of those bounds would be between you and God. (Let me know if I'm extrapolating too much from your post)
All this talk of justice makes me want to re-read Republic.

more or less, yes, you got it right

[Pouye]

We could remake Calvin's Geneva... I hear that them there were the good 'ol days...

Rock

[coldcupofjoe]

We could remake Calvin's Geneva... I hear that them there were the good 'ol days...

Rock


You have fun with that... I'll go live in Japan...

[Howlin' Wolf]

We could remake Calvin's Geneva... I hear that them there were the good 'ol days...

Rock

or we could let our post modern society infect the church and let false teachers remain unchecked, leading millions to hell with their self-help sermons and their pop- psychology. and then we can defend their actions because they come in the name of Jesus, despite preaching a different Gospel

[Gandalf]

but at what point do godly principles end up on a ban on all secular music, rated r movies, alcohol, and the like?
Those are not godly principles; they're arbitrary legalistic rules. Just principles are godly principles, since God is the ultimate source of morality, and defines justice. I would not at all suggest that we make laws mandating that everyone follow details of some peoples' religion. That would be decidedly unjust and ungodly. A government based on godly principles views all men as equal, protects their liberties, etc. Without such principles, such a government would never come into existence; you'd end up with something like the situation in China.

[Howlin' Wolf]

Those are not godly principles; they're arbitrary legalistic rules. Just principles are godly principles, since God is the ultimate source of morality, and defines justice. I would not at all suggest that we make laws mandating that everyone follow details of some peoples' religion. That would be decidedly unjust and ungodly. A government based on godly principles views all men as equal, protects their liberties, etc. Without such principles, such a government would never come into existence; you'd end up with something like the situation in China.

i agree 100 percent

but fallen men institutin "godly" principles will result in a situation like Bob Jones U.

[Pouye]

i agree 100 percent

but fallen men institutin "godly" principles will result in a situation like Bob Jones U.

Or Calvin's Geneva... :D

Rock

[kh294God]

It's not about Christians having a majority; justices who would impose their ideology rather than interpreting the Constitution are not desirable, whatever their ideology, since it throws off the balance of powers between the branches of government. Fortunately, the recent picks are judicial conservatives, who will not likely try to usurp the authority of the legislative branch.
i agree!!!!

[cheewiee]

I was thinking about this very thing... (The Conservitive Christians proverbial dream) where all branches of Government were controled by the "religious Right" to such an extent that they could enact anything legislativly and controled enough votes to break a Filbuster...

My conclusion... People would still goto Hell..

I am beginning to see a flaw in the logic in legislation geared towards raming Christianity down societies throat... If somehow We enacted Laws that Banned Homosexuality, Pornography, Drug Use, Tobacco Use, Alcohol Use, and so on and so forth.. and everyone obeyed the laws... If they didn't accept Jesus as personal Savior they are in reality still going to hell... So the laws were essentialy worthless...

I am not saying that we shouldn't have Christian Lawmakers out there ensuring a voice for Righetousness... But the Church needs to rethink where its energy is directed... protesting homosexual Marrage, or telling them about the life changing power of the Holy Spirit....

[SueQ]

Christian principles "rammed down people's throats" would take away free choice, which is what God gives us...While a "Christian government" may seem ideal, it would not bring us to the kind of life He wants us to live...

[Gandalf]

My conclusion... People would still goto Hell..

I am beginning to see a flaw in the logic in legislation geared towards raming Christianity down societies throat... If somehow We enacted Laws that Banned Homosexuality, Pornography, Drug Use, Tobacco Use, Alcohol Use, and so on and so forth.. and everyone obeyed the laws... If they didn't accept Jesus as personal Savior they are in reality still going to hell... So the laws were essentialy worthless...
You're attacking a straw man though. There are two separate issues:

1. Should we, as Christians, share the gospel with people in the hopes they will accept Christ and be saved?

2. Should we, as citizens of the United States of America, attempt to ensure that our government enacts just laws? (I'm not saying that all of the examples you imagine would fit in this category.)

They're not at all exclusive.