Do you celebrate Halloween???

[prayercloth sis]

If you do, then why do you celebrate it???

I do not.

Just wondering.

Rhonie

[AshleeDru]

Nope, I don't celebrate Halloween. It is my least favorite "holiday". When I think of Halloween, I think of the Devil. It just seems so evil to me. We have a Harvest Party at our church instead, which I think is a pretty cool alternative.

[Jason]

I don't celebrate it.

[sirlok]

I don't, but the wife will take the kids to our church where they have a "Trunk or Treat" where people from our church will give candy and stuff out of their trunks.

[Unstereotypical]

Only day of the whole year that you can dress as stupid as you want and no one will laugh at you.

Only day when a Gothic actually fits in with everyone else.

But the satanic symbolisms and the fear that is involved with it all, yeah, I want nothing to do with that either.

[jrmitch]

Do I celebrate it? Well, yeah - but not for the reasons you might think.

Now, before y'all throw me under the bus take about 5 minutes and check out this material. Then chew on this for ahwile; at least it won't rot out your teeth like most Halloween candy will. :D ;)

http://www.drbilly.com/shed/halloween/hpamphlet.htm
http://www.fischtank.com/ccmarticlesdetail.cfm?ccm articleid=47

Peace/Jim

[kiwisongbird]

Don't celebrate it at all, it's only been around for about ten or so years in New Zealand - didn't want to celebrate it firstly because it is an imported celebration, and it is just another way for shops to make riduculous amounts of money,

also don't like the 'witchy' kind of stuff around it - in our city in New Zealand it is said that the local covens do actually use it as a time to consolidate their power as some people are focussed on that type of stuff.......

but we didn't close up our house and go to a local church, we would buy stacks of pencils and erasers and little books with things written on like Jesus loves you and stuff like that and cute Bible stories and give them to the trick and treaters - the kids actually liked that stuff more than the candy!!!!!!! :D :D

[ayfan]

I don't celebrate either.

[Little Diva]

i don't celebrate this holliday although my b/day is the day before most people get slightly muddled and are convinced my b/day is this particular day.

Not sure if you've ever heard that when you are ducking for apples you are ducking for souls - now that's a scary thought if it's true!

Is it just me or are the halloween costumes getting more and more hideous year by year?

[googledoll]

I love Halloween! Some of my best memories of childhood were sitting with my mother making costumes. I won the costume contest every year! We put some serious effort into it!
For us Halloween was never a time of evil spirits and such. I never thought of it that way until the church started talking about it.
I wouldn't say we celebrate it, but I look forward to seeing the kids dressed up.

[Kyle's dad]

It depends on what you mean by celebrate. I have two boys, one is 5 and the other is 1. I will take the 5 year old out trick or treating. Does that mean I am giving in to evil? Well, last year he dressed up as a tiger. I really don't see anything evil in a 4-year old dressing up as a tiger. Or when I see a 5 year old girl in a ballerina suit knocking on my door and saying trick or treat I have trouble seeing that as evil. Now, we don't really do any of the scary stuff like have a haunted house with witches and demons etc. But I will take them trick or treating.

Yes, I am aware that halloween has its roots in paganism, but so do a lot of other things. How many of you put up a tree at Christmas time? That started out in paganism. Somebody here mentioned that they do a harvest festival instead. Well, harvest festivals also have their roots in paganism. I'm not criticising anyone for not observing Halloween. But, it's been hudreds of years since the truly paganistic form of halloween, or all hallows eve was the way it was observed among the masses. And even then, what they believed was that all hallows eve was the night that the souls of the dead returned home and people who had lost someone recently would leave food out for the souls of their loved ones. The lights, aka Jack-O-Lanterns were meant to light a path for the souls. Now granted, thats not consistent with Christian beliefs, and I would never observe that part of halloween, but I have certainly heard much worse.

So, if by "celebrating" halloween do you mean, do I take my kids trick or treating? The answer is yes. But that is pretty much as far as it goes. Plus, we actually put a bigger emphasis on the fact that its Reformation day, which might be a better alternative to halloween for a church to observe, as opposed to harvest festival. Again, not criticisng anyone, just giving my thoughts on halloween.

[Tony Trout]

I haven't done anything in a long time. Usually we keep the lights off in the front of the house to avoid being badgered by all the little kids in their Harry Potter and Spiderman costumes looking for a handout. :rolleyes:


My parents and I do the same thing......I don't like unwanted company.....know what I mean?? :rolleyes:

[mat1583]

Wow, I'm surprised this thread didn't come up earlier. It usually comes up a little earlier than this.

To answer: No, I don't celebrate the evil behind halloween of course, but sometimes I do like to dress up. We're having a halloween/b-day party at our apartment this year which should be a lot of fun. I'm supposed to be Frodo too, so I gotta make me some hairy feet. LOL

-washboard

[rossid]

We dressed up the kids until about five or six years ago when God convicted us this wasn't what he would have us do. I feel that evil is more prevalent on Halloween that other days of the year, not that someone dressed in a tiger suit is evil, but there are those elements that are unwholesome. Sure there is evil on every day of the year but we feel that we feed that by dressing up and trick or treating. Just our belief.

[Kyle's dad]

I haven't done anything in a long time. Usually we keep the lights off in the front of the house to avoid being badgered by all the little kids in their Harry Potter and Spiderman costumes looking for a handout. :rolleyes:

Instead of seeing them as freeloaders why not see them for what they are? Children just trying to have fun. If you're opposed to the "evil" aspect of halloween, why not try to counter it by handing out Gospel tracts (not that I'm a big gospel tracts person)? But why not try to turn something that you see as a negative into a positive?

[The Unknown Gomer]

...I really don't see anything evil in a 4-year old dressing up as a tiger. Or when I see a 5 year old girl in a ballerina suit knocking on my door and saying trick or treat I have trouble seeing that as evil...
Me neither. I used to go Trick or Treating every year growing up, until I outgrew it. Back home nobody thinks twice about Halloween and trick or treating. The entirely different attitude about Halloween out here still surprises me every year. No ghost or goblin or demon or witches costumes allowed at my nephews' schools. "Harvest" parties instead of Halloween parties. And the kicker last year, talk of "moving" Halloween from Sunday to Monday, so kids wouldn't be trick or treating Sunday night, IF they'd be allowed to do it at all. :rolleyes:

I personally think Halloween is a pain, to have to get up and answer the door several times during the evening (which is why I let my mother do it :p ) but we still keep candy on hand to hand out during the evening. For those who aren't into it, do like a lot of people say they do, just don't leave your light on, that's fine too. To each their own. :)

For those who say Halloween encourages kids to be greedy (nobody here, but I did read that more than once over the last few years), I won't disagree there - although you could say the very same thing about Christmas, and nobody trashes THAT holiday, but so far as it having any real religious significance for most of the people who celebrate it these days with trick or treating and haunted houses, naaah, I don't think so. IMHO, it's just a way to get out, have a little fun, eat too much candy, and spend lots of money at the stores.

But then, if I were any more open minded about stuff like this, my brain would fall out. :D

Here's something I found about the history of Halloween. I especially like the last paragraph.

Halloween is an annual celebration, but just what is it actually a celebration of? And how did this peculiar custom originate? Is it, as some claim, a kind of demon worship? Or is it just a harmless vestige of some ancient pagan ritual?

The word itself, "Halloween," actually has its origins in the Catholic Church. It comes from a contracted corruption of All Hallows Eve. November 1, "All Hollows Day" (or "All Saints Day"), is a Catholic day of observance in honor of saints. But, in the 5th century BC, in Celtic Ireland, summer officially ended on October 31. The holiday was called Samhain (sow-en), the Celtic New year.

One story says that, on that day, the disembodied spirits of all those who had died throughout the preceding year would come back in search of living bodies to possess for the next year. It was believed to be their only hope for the afterlife. The Celts believed all laws of space and time were suspended during this time, allowing the spirit world to intermingle with the living.

Naturally, the still-living did not want to be possessed. So on the night of October 31, villagers would extinguish the fires in their homes, to make them cold and undesirable. They would then dress up in all manner of ghoulish costumes and noisily paraded around the neighborhood, being as destructive as possible in order to frighten away spirits looking for bodies to possess.

Probably a better explanation of why the Celts extinguished their fires was not to discourage spirit possession, but so that all the Celtic tribes could relight their fires from a common source, the Druidic fire that was kept burning in the Middle of Ireland, at Usinach.

Some accounts tell of how the Celts would burn someone at the stake who was thought to have already been possessed, as sort of a lesson to the spirits. Other accounts of Celtic history debunk these stories as myth.


The Romans adopted the Celtic practices as their own. But in the first century AD, Samhain was assimilated into celebrations of some of the other Roman traditions that took place in October, such as their day to honor Pomona, the Roman goddess of fruit and trees. The symbol of Pomona is the apple, which might explain the origin of our modern tradition of bobbing for apples on Halloween.

The thrust of the practices also changed over time to become more ritualized. As belief in spirit possession waned, the practice of dressing up like hobgoblins, ghosts, and witches took on a more ceremonial role.

The custom of Halloween was brought to America in the 1840's by Irish immigrants fleeing their country's potato famine. At that time, the favorite pranks in New England included tipping over outhouses and unhinging fence gates.

The custom of trick-or-treating is thought to have originated not with the Irish Celts, but with a ninth-century European custom called souling. On November 2, All Souls Day, early Christians would walk from village to village begging for "soul cakes," made out of square pieces of bread with currants. The more soul cakes the beggars would receive, the more prayers they would promise to say on behalf of the dead relatives of the donors. At the time, it was believed that the dead remained in limbo for a time after death, and that prayer, even by strangers, could expedite a soul's passage to heaven.

The Jack-o-lantern custom probably comes from Irish folklore. As the tale is told, a man named Jack, who was notorious as a drunkard and trickster, tricked Satan into climbing a tree. Jack then carved an image of a cross in the tree's trunk, trapping the devil up the tree. Jack made a deal with the devil that, if he would never tempt him again, he would promise to let him down the tree.

According to the folk tale, after Jack died, he was denied entrance to Heaven because of his evil ways, but he was also denied access to Hell because he had tricked the devil. Instead, the devil gave him a single ember to light his way through the frigid darkness. The ember was placed inside a hollowed-out turnip to keep it glowing longer.

The Irish used turnips as their "Jack's lanterns" originally. But when the immigrants came to America, they found that pumpkins were far more plentiful than turnips. So the Jack-O-Lantern in America was a hollowed-out pumpkin, lit with an ember.

So, although some cults may have adopted Halloween as their favorite "holiday," the day itself did not grow out of evil practices. It grew out of the rituals of Celts celebrating a new year, and out of Medieval prayer rituals of Europeans. And today, even many churches have Halloween parties or pumpkin carving events for the kids. After all, the day itself is only as evil as one cares to make it.

[The Unknown Gomer]

Oh, and something that bothers me more than Halloween this time of year? The fact that I was watching tv a few nights ago, and already saw my first Christmas commercial. :eek: :mad:

Christmas is still 2 and a half months (and three holidays) away and they're already commercializing it? Sheesh! :rolleyes:

[ibanez_player]

we do not, cause my dad is totally against it, and i think i agree w/ him.

[Jake]

I did a couple times when I was little, but we stopped. Mainly because my pastor started chewing people out for letting their kids participate. I'm in High School now and every year, we have a halloween day at school. People show up in costumes. I've wanted to do it for 4 years now. We recently switched churches, and our new church isn't as hung up on legalism as the last one, so I will be dawning a Dale Gribble (King of the Hill) costume this year.

[onaree]

I have always liked Halloween. To me it has never been an "evil" holiday. It was just a holiday that my brother and I could dress as a superhero and get candy.

The past two years my family has turned my parents' three car garage into a walk-through haunted house. We don't charge admission and it isn't really all that scary. Mom sits outside on the driveway dressed in costume and hands out suckers with bible verses on them. It is something fun for the local kids that helps keep them out of other mischief they could be into.

[Kyle's dad]

I did a couple times when I was little, but we stopped. Mainly because my pastor started chewing people out for letting their kids participate.

Now that is scary!!! Not you, but a pastor who would ball his own parishioners out for taking kids trick or treating. That is scarier than any Halloween costume I've ever seen.

[R. Smith]

A couple of years ago, my Church had a youth night on Halloween. We had music (Christian), food, and games. It was a night to celebrate God, on what pretty much is a evil night. We are doing this again this halloween...it should be fun!!!

-R-

[Tony Trout]

Oh, and something that bothers me more than Halloween this time of year? The fact that I was watching tv a few nights ago, and already saw my first Christmas commercial. :eek: :mad:

Christmas is still 2 and a half months (and three holidays) away and they're already commercializing it? Sheesh! :rolleyes:



Totally in agreement with you here, Karen. I used to love Christmas....but people have commercialized it so much that I almost dread to see it every year. Ya know?

[Psalm25Gomer]

If you do, then why do you celebrate it???

I do not.

Just wondering.

Rhonie


Absolutely NOT. It is a pagan ritual, the history of it describes what it was like before it was all "sugar coated"........now people view it as "cute" and a means of getting candy and junk....there is a deeper meaning behind it....

Satan can transform himself as an angel of light. I am not going to give him a foothold by celebrating a pagan ritual just because the world deems it as "cute" and "fun".


As for me and my house we serve the Lord...and Him ONLY. We will not compromise.

[mat1583]

Absolutely NOT. It is a pagan ritual, the history of it describes what it was like before it was all "sugar coated"........now people view it as "cute" and a means of getting candy and junk....there is a deeper meaning behind it....

Satan can transform himself as an angel of light. I am not going to give him a foothold by celebrating a pagan ritual just because the world deems it as "cute" and "fun".


As for me and my house we serve the Lord...and Him ONLY. We will not compromise.

This reminds me of the scripture where Paul is talking about eating meat sacrificed to idols.

-washboard

[jrmitch]

The word itself, "Halloween," actually has its origins in the Catholic Church. It comes from a contracted corruption of All Hallows Eve. November 1, "All Hollows Day" (or "All Saints Day"), is a Catholic day of observance in honor of saints. But, in the 5th century BC, in Celtic Ireland, summer officially ended on October 31. The holiday was called Samhain (sow-en), the Celtic New year.Sherwood, not picking on you here. ;). However, your post just seemed like a good one to use as a basis for correcting a fairly significant amount of distortion about this holiday.

I posted a link to this article earlier, but I'm going to post the entire thing here for those who wish to take time to read it. I've left it intact, including footnotes w/references.

I'll also strongly encourage all participating in this thread to be Bereanlike and not take anything at face value; for those interseted in getting a copy here's the link again:
http://www.drbilly.com/shed/halloween/hpamphlet.htm

Blessings/Jim

Separating Fact from Theory

For nearly a generation Hallowe'en has been a bone of contention among Christians. Some celebrate it blindly, not knowing (or caring) what it may represent. Many believe it is a pagan ritual whose roots are planted in the soil of historical Druidism. Others abstain from Hallowe'en, convinced that those who celebrate it are unknowingly worshipping Satan. More and more Christians are simply ignoring the day or creating alternatives to it.

But many Christians resent being told that they are really worshipping Satan when they dress-up their five-year-old as a princess and hand out candy. They know that just as you cannot accidentally worship Jesus, you cannot accidentally worship Satan, either. Worship is an act of volition, and our symbols mean only what we mean by them. Consider Communion, where we ritually eat His body and drink His blood. Without its story it would look just as "satanic" as Hallowe'en!

In spite of all the talking we do about it, little is actually known of the true Hallowe'en. And, what we do know -- the facts, not the theories -- might surprise you! It has been said that, "Nature abhors a vacuum." So it is with the story of Hallowe'en. Historical accounts leave us with unanswered questions, and in order to "fill-in-the-gaps" historians have suggested possible links to other cultures and their celebrations. In this way, our search for the truth naturally leads us into the other celebrations -- often leaving Hallowe'en far behind. The result has become such a tangle of fact with theory that it is difficult to separate the two. What we believe about Hallowe'en today, has been built upon the rather tenuous foundation of "It-Looks-Like-That-Over-There."

Consider that many otherwise logical minds accept that we and the apes have common evolutionary ancestors -- because we appear to resemble each other. That they defend this idea "religiously," demonstrates their bias, rather than their grasp of the facts. Over-simplified, they have tangled fact and theory as they attempt to "fill-in-the-gaps." In much the same way, Hallowe'en is often confused with pagan festivals because they apparently resemble each other. And, in our zeal to stand against Satan at every opportunity, we Christians are often guilty of blindly throwing the baby out with the bath water.

This pamphlet is intended to shed a little light on the subject of Hallowe'en, by identifying facts as facts, and theories as theories. What you choose to believe about Hallowe'en is left to you. May God richly bless you as you seek to do His will.
---------------------------------------------------------
Hallowe'en was created by the Early Christian Church during the 4th century.1 Originally celebrated on the 13th and 14th of May as "All Martyr's Day," it was instituted to remember those who had given their lives for the Faith during the Great Christian Holocaust, by Rome.2 It was, in other words, the Christian Memorial Day -- the second most important holy-day in the entire Christian Calendar.

Somewhere along the way it apparently became customary to hold Church pageants on the preceding evening. Everyone, even the audience, came dressed as their favorite martyred saint.3 Those who chose Paul, came beheaded. Those who chose Matthew, came with a spear thrust through them. In skits, congregations would reenact the valor and passion of the Church-in-persecution. Others dressed as the antagonists of the stories -- Satan, his demons, the wild animals of the coliseum, the soldiers and the Caesars. These were the defeated enemies, booed and hissed, while the victorious heroes were cheered. Afterward they would all spill out into the streets of the city, begging food for the poor among them.4

Some three hundred years later, the city of Rome donated a building to the Church in memory of all the "martyrs" of the Great Persecution. The building had formerly been used as a place of torture and the execution of Christians. Now, it would be used to worship Jesus Christ. The irony was not lost on the Church, and many shifted their All Martyr's celebration to the day the new building was dedicated -- November 1.5 Within the next fifty years that change became official in the Western Churches (the Eastern Churches still celebrate in the spring, to this day6). The celebration was gradually expanded to include any who had been persecuted for the name of Christ, and many began calling it "All Saints' Day."

In the centuries that followed, the name was finally changed to the "Holy Day" - or more popularly, the "Hallowed Day." The festivities traditionally began the night before, because until recent times both Jews and Christians began their day at dusk. This is not the result of culture or superstition, but because God made them that way ("… and the evening and the morning, were the first day", etc.). So, to the early Church the evening of a Saturday, for instance, was the night before, not the night after -- Saturday began with Saturday-evening (what you and I would call Friday night). In fact, what we call "Christmas Eve" today, was originally the evening of/before Christmas-Day. The same is true of New Year's Eve. Similarly, the Hallowed Day began with the "Hallowed Even'," which was ultimately contracted to the "Hallowe'en" we know today. Today, we still begin our celebration on the evening before - what appears on our calendars as October 31.

If this is new to you, it is because in the process of "filling-in-the-gaps," scholars have added a great deal of theory to the mix. Along with these theories come theoretical motives ascribed to the Church, to explain why they did what they (theoretically) did. Eventually, no one was talking about a Christian Memorial Day anymore. No one was talking about Christ, the Church, or the Great Persecution anymore, either; only about Satan, and pagan rituals. When was the last time you were "reminded" that nearly seven million men, women and children were horribly tortured and finally brutally murdered in terrible ways, over the course of three hundred years - all because they refused to recant the Name of Jesus? Could we find that many Christians, so committed to the Name of Christ today? Listen… this is the real meaning behind Hallowe'en!

Filling-In The Gaps

The controversy over Hallowe'en is not now, nor has it ever been, a controversy over the facts, above. They are just that; facts of history. Facts recorded at the time, by the Church itself. Instead, the controversy is over the various theories surrounding a single question… "From whom did the Church copy their Halloween symbols?" Why did the Church begin dressing-up in costumes? Where did they get the idea of going door-to-door with a basket of treats? Why did they play "tricks" on those they didn't get a "treat" from? What about the pumpkin, the bat, the cat, etc.? Where did the Church get these symbols? And, if they are from wholly pagan sources, what can we surmise about the motives of a Church which not only allowed it to happen, but enthusiastically embraced such an extraordinary indiscretion?

Notice that the question is not, "What meaning did the Church ascribe to the symbols?" Amazingly, today's authors don't seem to care! They are apparently only interested in their origin. We know from Church history that they dressed in costumes of the dead, to memorialize them. But did they think this up out of thin-air? They went door-to-door to collect food for the poor, but where did they get the idea? They celebrated on November 1 because a famous building was dedicated on that day, but could there have been a more sinister motive than the one recorded by the Church? "From whom did they copy their symbols?" This is the true basis of the controversy. Today, there are three possible answers to this question. Since no one was there recording it, each of them are only theories. Each of us should be capable of making up our own minds -- and, capable of tolerating those who chose differently.

[jrmitch]

1. An Original Idea

Couldn't the Church have originated their own symbols for Halloween? While clearly possible, it is commonly agreed that this is the least likely of the three theories. The symbols of Hallowe'en appear in the historical records fully formed and complete. Though not impossible, it remains unlikely (based on the evolution of other holidays) that the Church could have created a such a set of "mature" symbols, from the very beginning. It is simply more likely that they copied them from another people.

2. The Druids

Another theory is that the Church adopted its Memorial Day symbols from the pagan rites of an ancient religious cult known as the Druids. In spite of the marvelously-detailed accounts of these rituals appearing in both secular and Christian histories (some of which often read like the pages of a Hollywood Tabloid), in truth we know very little about them.7 This is because they were a very secretive sect among the Celts of ancient Europe, and neither they nor the Celts around them had a written language8 -- there is simply no historical record of who they were or what they celebrated, except a few accounts written by their Roman enemies, as they struggled for survival against the advancing Legions.9

What we know of the Druids, is this… They were first seen by the outside world in 61 A.D.10 (though some theorize that they may have been much older). They were the civil and religious authorities11 over the Celts, until roughly 500 A.D.12, when they died-out during the war with Rome. Down through the centuries since, there have been several attempts to resurrect the cult. In each case, they had as their guide, only unwritten tales and Gaelic-poetry, passed word-of-mouth from generation to generation (the earliest written accounts by the Celts themselves began to appear around 1200 A.D.13). In each case the attempt was unsuccessful, and cult died-out again. The current Druidic cult (in England and Texas) is no older that the early sixties. Today, our understanding of Celtic rituals is limited to two eye-witness accounts, both written by their enemies. Both accounts essentially agree in detail, and both were accounts of the execution of prisoners-of-war. In one of these accounts, the prisoners were woven into baskets of reeds and then burned alive. By the manner in which the events were described, it seems logical that this was a common practice. The earlier account insisted that there was much superstition surrounding the event, including the understanding that their gods would grant these executions to be the fate of all their enemies.

In and of itself, there is little here, that is unique to the Druids. Frankly, other cultures before and after the Celts have displayed just as much barbarism in the execution of their criminals. What makes the Druids case special, however, is that the specific god involved was their God of Death and War -- a deity called Samhain -- whose major religious rites were celebrated in the fall of the year, at the autumnal equinox of the sun (that day between summer and winter when the days first begin to shorten). The Celts had no formal calendar beyond the shadows cast by the sun (some believe this is what Stonehenge was used for), but on the Roman calendar (as on ours, today) the date of the equinox is September 22nd. It is surmised by many authors that during this festival the same type of executions may have taken place, perhaps with wild abandon.

Today, the Gaelic peoples celebrate a New Year festival they call Samhain on October 31, thirty-nine days after the equinox. Why they changed the day, and when they made the change is open to scholarly speculation. Some believe that it was changed prior to the eighth century, and others, after the thirteenth. What difference does it make? Just this… if it happened earlier than 700 A.D., then it was already being celebrated on that day when the Church changed its All Martyr's celebration to November 1. Those who adopt this "early-change" theory, see a secret motive behind the Church's move to November 1 -- to "corrupt" the Samhain celebration with a more Christian meaning. Both Church and secular records are silent regarding such a motive, however.

On the other hand, if the shift of Samhain to October 31 followed the Church's own change, then perhaps a rapidly Christianized Ireland consolidated its holiday into the Church's Hallowe'en in order to keep its own pagan traditions alive. This "late-change" theory has the additional advantage of supplying us with a viable reason for the change from September 22 to October 31, in the first place ("early-changers" have no motive for the change).

In either case (the theory goes), the mixture of pagan and Christian symbols was responsible for a gradually weakened celebration that ultimately lost all Christian values, in favor of the pagan ones. The prevailing theory is that such customs as trick-or-treating and costumes must have been present in the Celtic celebrations (though no historical record exists of it), and copied by the Church. Today, contemporary Irish history (written within the last few hundred years) insists that it was not their ancestors that were "corrupted," but the Church. They speculate that the customs of the Christian Hallowe'en were copied by the Church from what must certainly have been celebrated long before by their ancestors at the "Vigil of Samhain" -- all the way back to the Druids themselves.

3. The Jews

There is a third theory. Some 600 years before Jesus was born, the Book of Esther, in the Old Testament, recounts the near extinction of the Jews by their enemies, and the story of their deliverance by God through Queen Esther of Persia -- who was secretly a Jewess, herself. The chief enemy of the Jews, one Haman, recommended that the King greatly honor someone who had done a great service, thinking that it would certainly be himself. Instead, it turned out to be Mordecai, the secret Jewish uncle of the Queen. Haman's hatred of the Jews finally peaked (according to the Jewish Midrash) when his own daughter maliciously dumped a full "bedpan" on him by mistake, having confused the clothing worn by the two men. There is a considerable "Clark-Kent-style" to the story.

According to Scripture, Haman's plot to kill all Jews, all over the world, was to take place in the spring, on the 14th day of the Hebrew month Adar. But on the day before it was to happen, just as the dark got darkest, God intervened to turn the tables. Now the Jews stood in authority over their enemies. The 13th was to become a day of rejoicing, rather than a day of mourning (Est. 9:1). These two days (the 13th and 14th) would be known as Purim (9:27). They sent letters to all Jews, all over the world, commanding them to celebrate them forever by, "sending portions one to another, and gifts to the poor." (9:22)

Ever since, observant Jews celebrate the Festival of Purim (beginning on the evening preceding the 13th) by dressing their children up in costumes of the heroes and of the enemies in the story of Esther. Many of the costumes are of those that died. It is common to see old Haman and his ten sons, all with hangman's nooses around their necks. Special pastries and treats are prepared to resemble Haman's hat, buttons, even his ears (orecchi di Haman) -- which are eaten with a grisly glee! The costumed children are sent out with baskets of these ready-to-eat treats to be delivered to the doors of their most favored friends and relatives (Mishloah Manot), and to the poor as well (Mattanot le-Evyonim). As each basket is delivered, the children receive a "tip" of edible treats.14 And it continues, in every Jewish community all over the world, to this day!

Those who are "stilted" ("I thought I was among your favored friends? Why did I get no Hamantashen from you?") can take good-humored retaliation on each other the following morning. In Israel, great parades (adloyada) are held comprised of revelers carrying silly plastic hammers, sold by vendors on every street-corner. The "stilters" are sought out and soundly bonked on the head because they sent no treats last night! (Trick-Or-Treat!)

They hold pageants where the story of Esther (Megillat Esther) is reenacted, and tradition demands that the name of Haman be blotted out so they boo and hiss each time it is mentioned, while cheering the heroes of the story. Some historians claim a much later date for the inclusion of costumes and pageants into the Purim festival, but apparently it was well established among many groups by close of the second century. The trick-or-treat look-alike, goes back to the beginning (c. 600 B.C.), however, as it was a Biblical commandment.

The theory that Hallowe'en's symbols were copied from Purim, contends that the new Christian Church of the first and second centuries was quite Jewish. Indeed, we know there were no gentile Christians for the first several decades of its existence. Jesus was a Jew, as were the Apostles, and all continued as Jews, attending Sabbath Synagogue services, and celebrating the Old Testament feasts. Those who subscribe to this theory claim it would be naive and short-sighted to believe that Purim and its symbols was unknown to the Early Church.

This same Church withstood incredible persecution by Rome for over three hundred years, their enemies planning for their complete annihilation. Then, just as the darkness could get no darker, the tables were turned! Under the reign of Constantine, Christianity was elevated overnight to the state religion of Rome. Suddenly Christians found themselves (for better or worse) in authority over their former enemies. Thus, just as today's Communion is essentially the Old Testament Passover festival with new meaning given to its symbols, so too (according to this theory) new meaning was given to the symbols of Purim by the Early Church, which began calling it All Martyr's Day.

Both Purim and Hallowe'en were (originally) celebrated in the spring (both on the same days of the month). They share a common heritage, history, Bible, and God. They both celebrate essentially the same kind of worldwide persecution followed by the same miraculous deliverance. They are both Memorial Days.

Thus, proponents of this theory contend that the symbols of the Christian Hallowe'en were not copied. Instead, they suggest that Hallowe'en was just a new name, with new meanings attached to the old symbols of the Biblical Feast of Purim. They further theorize that these same symbols (devoid of their Christian meaning) were subsequently copied by the Irish into their Samhain New Year festival (rather than the other way around).

[jrmitch]

Creeping Secularization

A few of the symbols of Hallowe'en are not traceable to the very beginning (c. 350 A.D.). There was simply no specific mention made of them in Church or secular records relating to Hallowed Day celebrations. This does not mean that they didn't exist from the beginning, only that it is unlikely. These include the bat, the cat, bonfires, and the Jack-O-Lantern. Today, scholars believe that with the exception of the Jack-O-Lantern, their association with the Hallowed Day is seasonal, rather than memorial. That is, they became associated with Hallowe'en because it was THE Christian holy-day during the harvest season, and these elements were symbols of the harvest.

Some suggest that cats are a symbol of Hallowe'en because it was worshiped in Egypt. But then, everything was worshiped in Egypt, even the dung-beetle. This does little to explain why the cat (and not the dung-beetle) became a symbol of the season. Others offer that witches sometimes use a cat as a familiar. But then, witches apparently so used many animals, including dogs, rabbits, even horses. Why the cat and none of these? The list is amazingly diverse, and equally improbable.

The only thing that all ancient cultures have in common, when it comes to the cat, is a reverence for it at the harvest season. The cat is the one and only defense-mechanism that an agricultural world had against the mouse, the rat and the snake -- all of which were pests that could destroy a harvested-crop. Thus, in all agricultural economies the cat is a hero, especially at this time of the year when the harvest has just been brought in.

Bats have a similarly obvious connection with the harvest. Scientists tell us that the bat is not only completely harmless, but consumes 1400 mosquito-sized insects every night.15 When, in the heat of the season, laborers have been beating the field all day long, the bat is a welcome entry into the evening harvest festivities. The common association of the vampire-bat is apparently insupportable, as it exists nowhere in the world, except in South America -- not in the Mid-East, nor even in Transylvania! The mythology surrounding a vampire turning himself into a bat was proposed for the first time anywhere, during the late 1800's, in the fiction "Dracula."

Bonfires were common each and every evening of the harvest, all over the world. Apparently this had no religious application, only the practical burning of the stalks and chaff from each day's winnowing.

The pumpkin, which many of us associate so strongly with Hallowe'en, is native only to North America, and grows nowhere else in the world. They simply did not have pumpkins to use as symbols, until about 300 years ago! The original Jack-O-Lanterns go back a little further, but were usually made from turnips or potatoes, and are a relatively recent European invention (c. 1200 A.D.).

According to tradition, the Jack-O-Lantern is the good-natured result of an old Irish-Christian wives-tale about a miser named Stingy Jack16 who refused his good wife's exhortation to go to church. Jack instead frequented saloons, were he eventually met and tricked the Devil himself into paying for the drinks. A year later, on the eve of the Hallowed Day, Jack choked to death, eating a turnip. When he arrived at heaven's gate he was turned away as an unrepentant sinner. At the gates of hell, Satan drove him off by throwing glowing embers of hell-fire at him, still angry over being tricked. Jack was doomed to walk between heaven and hell until the Judgment Day, still carrying his half-eaten turnip, in which burned the glowing embers he had caught.17 They called it Jack's-Lantern, and Christians would put them up to mark the locations of their Hallowe'en parties. According to the legend, if Satan saw such a lantern he would turn and walk the other way rather than risk meeting Stingy Jack in such a gathering.
Conclusion

Though we often hear otherwise, Hallowe'en is a Christian holy-day. Criticism of the celebration actually concerns its symbols, rather than what it was intended to be from the beginning -- the Christian Memorial Day. Some object that stories of martyred saints are inappropriate because they do not appear in Scripture. But it would be myopic to assume that God stopped working miraculously among His people, with the 28th chapter of Acts. Furthermore, our heritage -- those who became examples for us -- goes all the way back to Genesis. There is no reason to limit our remembrance to those three centuries. This is not man-glorification, but the awesome power of God's Spirit making new and fearless, the hearts of mere men.

Evil does exist; everywhere, everyday. Those who practice evil on our Memorial Day, are the same ones who desecrate all our other holi-days, too (Christmas, Easter, etc.). This does not mean we should flee the day -- you cannot win a battle by retreating from your own ground.

Whatever you choose to believe about Hallowe'en's symbols, never let it cease to be a memorial of faithful believers that, following the example of Jesus, laid the foundations that you and I stand on today with their own blood. And remember this too… The true story behind Hallowe'en must remain a secret! Whatever you do, don't let the Public School System get wind of it! They are perfectly willing to expose our children to all manner of unknown and potentially dangerous things. But if they ever found out that they were embracing a wholly Christian festival, the Memorial Day of the Church… they'd drop it like a hot rock!

1 "A Feast of All Martyrs was kept on May 13 in the Eastern Church according to Ephraem Syrus (who died 373 AD)." v.1, p.275, 2a, Encyclopedia Britannica, Chicago, IL, 1992

2 "In the late 4th century, a feast of All Martyrs was observed by the Eastern Syrians on May 13 and by the West Syrians and Byzantines on the Sunday following Pentecost. Pope Boniface IV received from the emperor Phocas (reigned 602-610) the Pantheon at Rome, which he dedicated on May 13 to St. Mary and All Martyrs. The Feast of All Saints on November 1 was promulgated by Pope Gregory IV in 835, in place of the May festival." v.16, p.308, 1a, Encyclopedia Britannica, Chicago, IL, 1992

3 "On All Hallows, many churches staged plays called pageants for the benefit of their members. Each pageant participant dressed up as the patron saint of his special guardian. Those who did not play the part of a 'holy one' played the part of devils. The procession then marched from the church out into the churchyard where the play might continue until late in the evening." p 36b, Phillips, P., Halloween and Satanism, Starburst Publ., Penn, 1987

4 "[They would] walk door to door begging food for the poor… chanting: Soul, soul! for a soul cake! I pray, good mistress, for a soul cake! An apple or pear, or plum or a cherry. Any good thing to make us merry. One for Peter, two for Paul, Three for Him who made us all. Up with the kettle, down with the pan. Give us good alms and we'll be gone. Alms, were the money of the common people. A soul cake was a square bun decorated with currants. During the holiday, bakers would fill their shops with soul cakes." pp. 31, ibid.

5 "The first evidence for the November 1 celebration and of the broadening of the festival to all Saints as well as Martyrs occurred during the reign of Pope Gregory III (731-741), who dedicated a chapel in St. Peter's Rome on November 1 in honour of All Saints. In 800, All Saints Day was kept by Alcuin on November 1, and it also appeared in a 9th century English calendar. In 837, Pope Gregory IV ordered its general observance. In medieval England, the festival was known as All Hallows, and its eve is still known as Halloween." v.1, p.275, 2a, Encyclopedia Britannica, Chicago, IL, 1992

6 "All Saints' Day is a religious festival honoring All Christian Saints. It is observed [today,] on November 1 by the Roman Catholics and members of the Anglican Communion, and on the first Sunday after Pentecost (Whitsunday) by the Eastern Orthodox Church." v.1, p.585, Encyclopedia Americana, Grolier Corp., Danbury, CN, 1991

7 "…little is known of the doctrines of the druids." Rhys, Prof., Celtic Heathendom, Modern American Corp., Chicago, 1936

8 "Little is known of the Druids because their rites were never written down." Compton's Encyclopedia, E.E.Compton Co., Chicago, IL, 1984 "No early Celtic literature has been preserved… The Druids, did not commit their learning to writing." "Celts," c.1, Twentieth Century Encyclopedia, World Literary Guild, 1934

9 "Our information respecting [the druids] is borrowed from notices in the Greek and Roman writers, compared with the remains of Welsh and Gaelic poetry still extant. …That the Druids offered sacrifices to their deity [Be'al, the Sun] there can be no doubt. But there is some uncertainty as to what they offered, and of the ceremonies connected with their religious services we know almost nothing. The classical (Roman) writers affirm that they offered on great occasions human sacrifices; as for success in war or for relief from dangerous diseases. …Many attempts have been made by Celtic writers to shake the testimony of Roman historians to this fact, but without success. …It is certain that they [the druids] committed nothing of their doctrine, their history, or their poetry to writing. Their teaching was oral, and their literature (if such a word may be used in such a case) was preserved solely by tradition." p358-361, Bulfinch, Thomas, Bulfinch's Mythology, Anenel Books, NY, 1978

10 "The only specific reference to druids encountered by the Romans when they invaded Britain is in connection with the assault on Mona (Anglesey) in 61 A.D. under the command of Seutonius Paulinus." v.9, p.420, 1a, Encyclopedia Americana, Grolier Corp., Danbury, CN, 1991

11 "Druids of Gaul were both judges and priests, who sacrificed criminals to their gods. The Druids of Britain, on the other hand, were chiefly religious leaders." v.4, p.185, 2a, Compton's Encyclopedia, E.E.Compton Co., Chicago, IL, 1984

12 "…finally, after the Anglo-Saxon invasions in the 5th century, [Druidism] is supposed to have been exterminated in England, and survived only in Ireland, Wales, Isle of Man, the Scottish Highlands, and Cornwall. "Celts," c.1, Twentieth Century Encyclopedia, World Literary Guild, 1934 "… The druids' fierce resistance to the spread of the Latin culture, led to their suppression by Roman authorities in Britain and Gaul; in Ireland, which never came under Roman rule, druidism survived until A.D. 500." v.6, p.281, 2b, Academic American Encyclopedia, Danbury, CN, 1989

13 "The ancient Celts did not write down their history and religion and poetry. Literature written in the Celtic languages did not begin to grow up until much later. The earliest Celtic literature that we have was written about 1200 A.D." p.343, col.2, par.5, Illustrated World Encyclopedia, Bobbley Publ., NY, 1978

14 p. 195, The Jewish Holidays, Rabbi M. Strassfeld, Harper & Row, NY, 1985

15 "Bats eat thousands of bugs every night, yet they remain one of the most misunderstood creatures in nature… A single bat of average weight will consume well over 1400 mosquito-size insects each night." Tuttle, M., America's Neighborhood Bats, Bat Conservation Int'l, TX, 1989

16 "The origin of the Jack-O-Lantern is found in a fanciful tale of a down-on-his-luck Irishman named 'Stingy Jack'…" Phillips, Phil, Halloween and Satanism, Starburst Publishers, Penn, 1987

17 According to an Irish legend, jack-o-lanterns were named for a man called Jack, who could not enter heaven because he was a miser, and could not enter hell either, because he had played jokes on the devil. As a result, Jack had to walk the earth with his lantern until Judgement Day. v.9, p.25, 1a, World Book Encyclopedia, Chicago, IL, 1992

[mat1583]

Is there any way you could write up a "cliff notes" version for an impatient college student like myself? :p :D

-washboard

[Col. Mustard]

speakin of holloween....ya'll gotta c my costume. im goin to a friends costume party, and mine's da boom. i got it 4 20 bucks at wall~mart, but believe me, it was worth it. its like, a rider in a horse and its got one of those fans that like blows it up, and your legs go through the horses back legs, and it looks like your actually riding the horse cause they got like, fake lges on it. :D its awsome.

[TX3DFan]

Thanks for those 2 articles linked earlier, jrmitch. Fact is always stranger than fiction. Glad to see some truths be brought to light about Hallowe'en. I particularly liked the article from CCM.

[Dianna Cooper]

When we where younger we whould dress in coustomes and trick or treat. There was one time when the police officers had a halloween party. Since my dad is a police officer we went to it. It was alot of fun. Our school once had a Halloween party. The nwhen I got into the youth group that was when our church had a halloween party for kids of our church and other kids they wanted to invite. It was a safe place for them to have fun and get candy and some small toys as prizes. There where several diffrent games. They even gave out tracts. To enter you had to say a bible verse if you didn't know one they let you look one up and say it out loud. There was lots of games then a show for the kids. They read a story once for the kids but that didn't do so well they got bored fast so then they had a puppet show for the kids each time they had the party. Then for some reason they stopped. Instead of that we had trunk or treat. So that's what my church does every year. I dress up and hand out candy now to the trick or treaters. I like dressing up it is alot of fun.

[Col. Mustard]

When we where younger we whould dress in coustomes and trick or treat. There was one time when the police officers had a halloween party. Since my dad is a police officer we went to it. It was alot of fun. Our school once had a Halloween party. The nwhen I got into the youth group that was when our church had a halloween party for kids of our church and other kids they wanted to invite. It was a safe place for them to have fun and get candy and some small toys as prizes. There where several diffrent games. They even gave out tracts. To enter you had to say a bible verse if you didn't know one they let you look one up and say it out loud. There was lots of games then a show for the kids. They read a story once for the kids but that didn't do so well they got bored fast so then they had a puppet show for the kids each time they had the party. Then for some reason they stopped. Instead of that we had trunk or treat. So that's what my church does every year. I dress up and hand out candy now to the trick or treaters. I like dressing up it is alot of fun.
yepp, it can be, even when u get older.
:D

[Kyle's dad]

Absolutely NOT. It is a pagan ritual, the history of it describes what it was like before it was all "sugar coated"........now people view it as "cute" and a means of getting candy and junk....there is a deeper meaning behind it....




I hope you exhibit the same enthusiasm with Christmas trees. You know that tradition started with paganism? So, I can only assume that if I came to your house on December 25th, that I wouldn't see any sign of a tree in your house, lest Satan get a foothold. And I sure hope that you don't have anything to do with eggs come Easter time. And don't get me started on seasonal festivals and birthday celebrations.

Please, it only has a deeper meaning if you apply it yourself. I'm not criticising your choice of not celebrating halloween, but I really think you need to give people a little more credit. I grew up in a Christian home and we were allowed to go trick or treating and I never knew that there was any connection between paganism and halloween until I was an adult. The only reason people even think about is because self-righteous blowhards like John Hagee bring it up every year.

Again, I am not cricising your choice of not observing halloween, but your post had a self-righteous tone that implied that somehow your "house" is serving the Lord more than a house where kids are allowed to go trick or treating.

[Kyle's dad]

But many Christians resent being told that they are really worshipping Satan when they dress-up their five-year-old as a princess and hand out candy. They know that just as you cannot accidentally worship Jesus, you cannot accidentally worship Satan, either. Worship is an act of volition, and our symbols mean only what we mean by them. Consider Communion, where we ritually eat His body and drink His blood. Without its story it would look just as "satanic" as Hallowe'en!

Notice that the question is not, "What meaning did the Church ascribe to the symbols?" Amazingly, today's authors don't seem to care! They are apparently only interested in their origin. We know from Church history that they dressed in costumes of the dead, to memorialize them. But did they think this up out of thin-air? They went door-to-door to collect food for the poor, but where did they get the idea? They celebrated on November 1 because a famous building was dedicated on that day, but could there have been a more sinister motive than the one recorded by the Church? "From whom did they copy their symbols?" This is the true basis of the controversy. Today, there are three possible answers to this question. Since no one was there recording it, each of them are only theories. Each of us should be capable of making up our own minds -- and, capable of tolerating those who chose differently.[/I]

Thanks for that article. I put those paragraphs because those were my favortite parts. Hmmm, interesting so Halloween my not be so bad after all.

[Yippy]

Is there any way you could write up a "cliff notes" version for an impatient college student like myself? :p :D

-washboard
I was thinking the same thing... :D Thought I'd come back to it when my eyes aren't so tired... :)

Speaking of Halloween, I've never liked it, even in my pre-Christian days. I guess I've just seen too much of the evil side of it. I used to really hate October and all the ghoulishness but learned to say that this is the month the Lord has made, I will rejoice and be glad in it. We've turned Halloween into a family night...We get the kids their favorite candies, we rent movies, then sit and eat candy til we're green while watching something fun.

What really astounds me is the reaction you get from people when you say you don't celebrate Halloween. You'd think we were depriving our kids of all that is important in life. Our kids are not deprived I can assure anyone. They have our attention daily, we laugh daily, and we do fun things all the time and they are really happy, well adjusted kids.

Kyle's dad, I see what you're saying. I just find it a lot easier reconciling Christmas and Easter tradition with my beliefs than I do Halloween. But I have yet to read jrmitch's posts, so I leave room to be enlightened.

[Kyle's dad]

Kyle's dad, I see what you're saying. I just find it a lot easier reconciling Christmas and Easter tradition with my beliefs than I do Halloween. But I have yet to read jrmitch's posts, so I leave room to be enlightened.

Don't misunderstand me I don't criticise anyone for not observing Halloween. I just don't agree with people who say that because I allow my son to dress up as Bob the Builder and collect a little bit of candy from the neighbors, that I am somehow indoctrinating him into a cult. I didn't get that tone from your post at all. Actually, I really appreciate the way that you thoughtfully explained why you choose not to observe the holiday and I can appreciate a lot of your reasoning, and I don't think you are depriving your kids of anything. :)

Also, I should point out that while we do allow our son, and soon both our sons (the younger one is a little young at this point) to trick or treat, we are very conscious to make sure that we make a much bigger deal out of the fact that October 31st is Reformation day.

[Yippy]

Don't misunderstand me I don't criticise anyone for not observing Halloween.
I didn't think that at all. :)

[Yippy]

Totally in agreement with you here, Karen. I used to love Christmas....but people have commercialized it so much that I almost dread to see it every year. Ya know?
SAME HERE!

It's become so stressful.

This year we're planning to donate what we would spend on Christmas to a hurricane relief fund. We're still talking it over with our kids, letting them get used to the idea and allowing them to participate in all the decision making and creativity. I'll still send out greetings (via email), but to us it just seems right that because of the recent tragedies, we should focus on what's really important and help people who are still fighting to recover from the disasters. Of course, we should focus on what's really important anyway, but it seems like Christmas just gets way out of hand sometimes, which is my own fault, I suppose.

[S.A.Y.]

i don't celebrate holloween either but we pass out candy to little kids because we enjoy seeing them in their costumes

[dustmonkey08]

I dislike Halloween. It is my least not even favorite holiday. I help out at my church and I dress up for the kids. The kids at my church like it when the teenagers dress up. I was a spotted cat last year. This year I don't know.

[Col. Mustard]

i don't celebrate holloween either but we pass out candy to little kids because we enjoy seeing them in their costumes
yeah, they're cute arn't they.

[Jason]

Why I Love Halloween
by evangelist Ray Comfort

When our family came to the United States in back 1989, Halloween was a big part of the American culture shock. It horrified us to go to supermarkets and see such a personification of evil. We would turn the lights off on the night of Halloween, and go to bed early. If the door bell rang, we would ignore it, and pray that the kids dressed as demons would go away.

However, about five years ago we decided that we would let our light shine in the darkness. We purchased some candy and placed them and some tracts in plastic bags. That night, over one hundred people came to our door and took Gospel tracts—over one hundred people! The experience was so much easier than going door to door. There was no feeling awkward as I stood in someone else’s property. Neither was there the fear of having a door slammed in my face—because the world came to my door, and I closed it when I wanted to.

Turn the tables on the enemy this Halloween. Make the most evil night of the year into the most evangelistic. Think about it. Isn't the hardest thing about giving people tracts, having to approach them? On October 31st, the world will come into your property, to your door, and they will gladly take tracts from your hands. So put a welcome sign on your lawn. Put the porch light on, and make sure you take advantage of this God-given opportunity to reach the lost.

[The Unknown Gomer]

Sherwood, not picking on you here. . However, your post just seemed like a good one to use as a basis for correcting a fairly significant amount of distortion about this holiday. No sweat. I just googled Halloween and just posted some of what I found. Not that it matters, since for most people, any historical significance to the holiday has pretty much been lost, and it IS just a time to dress up, party, and eat one's self to oblivion. :)

I figure some people celebrate it, some people don't, to each their own. I don't think any more or any less of anyone who does or doesn't. My only grievance is when those who don't try to prevent those who DO from doing so, something I never ran into until I moved from CA to NC.

[Psalm25Gomer]

I hope you exhibit the same enthusiasm with Christmas trees. You know that tradition started with paganism? So, I can only assume that if I came to your house on December 25th, that I wouldn't see any sign of a tree in your house, lest Satan get a foothold. And I sure hope that you don't have anything to do with eggs come Easter time. And don't get me started on seasonal festivals and birthday celebrations.

Please, it only has a deeper meaning if you apply it yourself. I'm not criticising your choice of not celebrating halloween, but I really think you need to give people a little more credit. I grew up in a Christian home and we were allowed to go trick or treating and I never knew that there was any connection between paganism and halloween until I was an adult. The only reason people even think about is because self-righteous blowhards like John Hagee bring it up every year.

Again, I am not cricising your choice of not observing halloween, but your post had a self-righteous tone that implied that somehow your "house" is serving the Lord more than a house where kids are allowed to go trick or treating.


I do feel the same about Christmas (Santa more specifically) and Easter eggs, thank you very much. :)

Regardless of what you or anyone else thinks of me....I'm standing firm in what I believe. I don't force it on anyone else.

The question in the first post asked what our beliefs/opinions are. Not to start an argument with other people because we think they are "wrong" or we don't agree with them. I didn't start an argument. I only stated what I believe. I certainly don't expect everyone to agree with me.

I don't claim or insist that my house is "serving the Lord" better than anyone else's. Everyone has fallen short of the glory. Even in my house. Nor do I claim to be "self righteous" (for the love of God! come on!) :rolleyes:

I am just stating my beliefs...and where I place God in my life.

If you want to celebrate halloween, then go ahead and do so. That's your decision.


With all due respect...You can post away at me till your fingers fall off. And I am not going to see it your way. (and I don't expect you to see it my way either.)

God bless you. :)

[jrmitch]

...It is a pagan ritual, the history of it describes what it was like before it was all "sugar coated"........now people view it as "cute" and a means of getting candy and junk....there is a deeper meaning behind it....

Sure, there's a deeper meaning behind it, and as has already been established within this thread the origin of halloween is in the early church - not paganism, druid practices, or the occult. Unfortunately, many of us just accept the arguments against the holiday without closely examining the facts in support of those arguments.

Though todays halloween has mixed many cultural elements and is highly celebrated within the occult, it is factually incorrect to state that the origin of the holiday and all it's customs are pagan. The evidence we have decisively proves that the origin of the holiday is Christian - not pagan. ;)

[Thomas508]

We look for any reason to celebrate and eat food! We dress the kids up and take them trick or treating though nothing evil or mean. We do the Christmas tree any holiday you can think of one thing everyone should consider is pretty much everyone of our holidays have pagan backgrounds but I think whatever you do you should find a way to do it for the Lords sake.
Food for thought
Romans 14:5-13
5 One man esteemeth one day above another: another esteemeth every day alike. Let every man be fully persuaded in his own mind.
6 He that regardeth the day, regardeth it unto the Lord; and he that regardeth not the day, to the Lord he doth not regard it. He that eateth, eateth to the Lord, for he giveth God thanks; and he that eateth not, to the Lord he eateth not, and giveth God thanks.
7 For none of us liveth to himself, and no man dieth to himself.
8 For whether we live, we live unto the Lord; and whether we die, we die unto the Lord: whether we live therefore, or die, we are the Lord's.
9 For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living.
10 But why dost thou judge thy brother? or why dost thou set at nought thy brother? for we shall all stand before the judgment seat of Christ.
11 For it is written, As I live, saith the Lord, every knee shall bow to me, and every tongue shall confess to God.
12 So then every one of us shall give account of himself to God.
13 Let us not therefore judge one another any more: but judge this rather, that no man put a stumblingblock or an occasion to fall in his brother's way.
(KJV)

Billy T

[Kyle's dad]

.

I don't claim or insist that my house is "serving the Lord" better than anyone else's. Everyone has fallen short of the glory. Even in my house. Nor do I claim to be "self righteous" (for the love of God! come on!) :rolleyes:

I am just stating my beliefs...and where I place God in my life.



Like I said in the first post that you responded to, I am not criticising your decision. And I never said that you were self-righteous, I said your post had a self-righteous tone to it. I just reread it and I still say that. For example no, you didn't come right and say that your house was serving the Lord more than others, but you ended your post with the scripture passage that says "As for me and my house we will serve the Lord," subtly implying that to choose otherwise is to not serve the Lord. Also you said something like Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light and you were not going to let him get a foothold, again subtly implying that to choose differently than you is to let Satan get a foothold.

Again, I was not criticising your decision or trying to change your mind. I was just trying to illustrate that just because someone chooses to observe Halloween, doesn't mean they aren't serving the Lord or that they are allowing Satan to get a foothold.

I didn't mean to offend, and again, I respect your decision.

[JanetRN]

Since its my birthday I kinda celebrate... but I celebrate that instead of the traditional ways... IE we have a family dinner with cake & stuff. The last couple of years we've gone out to a restraunt to celebrate and leave the lights off at home ;)

[Psalm25Gomer]

Sure, there's a deeper meaning behind it, and as has already been established within this thread the origin of halloween is in the early church - not paganism, druid practices, or the occult. Unfortunately, many of us just accept the arguments against the holiday without closely examining the facts in support of those arguments.

I did look at all the facts. I've studied this for years.

Though todays halloween has mixed many cultural elements and is highly celebrated within the occult, it is factually incorrect to state that the origin of the holiday and all it's customs are pagan. The evidence we have decisively proves that the origin of the holiday is Christian - not pagan. ;)

Evidence "we" have?? Whose evidence?? What are the scriptural references to the evidence??

I strongly disagree. Since when is dressing up like witches, ghosts, demons, and dead people... Christian? :confused:


(Kyle's Dad) Satan can disguise himself as an angel of light and you were not going to let him get a foothold, again subtly implying that to choose differently than you is to let Satan get a foothold.


Ok...I checked my first post...and I may have come off sounding like that. I apologize. I just tend to be overly "blunt" when I feel so strongly about something. ;)

I don't want to get into a long, drawn out debate over this, but I will say this....because I know too much about...some of the things that go on halloween night and I can not post about it (I know this firshand, because I have suffered, having a parent involved in this when I was younger).
But I will say this....the enemy will do what it takes to steal, kill, and destroy. He hates God and God's children. Satan will use this night (or any night) to attack. Demon worship is more practiced on this day than any other day to my knowledge.

I refuse to allow my children (and myself) to participate in this. That is my decision..that is my dedication to God.

You may think I'm closed minded...but I'm not.....I'm open minded, ....just not so open minded that my brains fall out. ;)

Whatever y'all do...is your choice. Thanks for respecting mine.

[RonT]

We have not celebrated Halloween with our kids either. We did try to something though so that they could still get some candy. They had great fun dressing up like a clown or a farmer or something like that. My wife has then baked some baby loaves of bread. We then would take some church paper and the kids would go up to doors and tell the people that they had something for them. They would always get some candy, but they were always giving the people something also. It worked out well. The girls enjoyed it and Halloween was never mentioned.

Ron

[Dianna Cooper]

We have not celebrated Halloween with our kids either. We did try to something though so that they could still get some candy. They had great fun dressing up like a clown or a farmer or something like that. My wife has then baked some baby loaves of bread. We then would take some church paper and the kids would go up to doors and tell the people that they had something for them. They would always get some candy, but they were always giving the people something also. It worked out well. The girls enjoyed it and Halloween was never mentioned.

Ron

That's a neat idea giveing something to people while you go door to door.

[prayercloth sis]

I did look at all the facts. I've studied this for years.



Evidence "we" have?? Whose evidence?? What are the scriptural references to the evidence??

I strongly disagree. Since when is dressing up like witches, ghosts, demons, and dead people... Christian? :confused:





Ok...I checked my first post...and I may have come off sounding like that. I apologize. I just tend to be overly "blunt" when I feel so strongly about something. ;)

I don't want to get into a long, drawn out debate over this, but I will say this....because I know too much about...some of the things that go on halloween night and I can not post about it (I know this firshand, because I have suffered, having a parent involved in this when I was younger).
But I will say this....the enemy will do what it takes to steal, kill, and destroy. He hates God and God's children. Satan will use this night (or any night) to attack. Demon worship is more practiced on this day than any other day to my knowledge.

I refuse to allow my children (and myself) to participate in this. That is my decision..that is my dedication to God.

You may think I'm closed minded...but I'm not.....I'm open minded, ....just not so open minded that my brains fall out. ;)

Whatever y'all do...is your choice. Thanks for respecting mine.

Thank you!!!!

[jrmitch]

Evidence "we" have?? Whose evidence?? What are the scriptural references to the evidence??.........Since when is dressing up like witches, ghosts, demons, and dead people... Christian? As far as the evidence goes, the historical evidence clearly shows the following:

1. That the early church initiated a May celebration called All Martyrs Day (otherwise known as the Festival of the Martyrs) in the late 4th century as a means of remembering the millions of saints martyred by Rome during the first three centuries after Christ;

2. That the scriptural proof you demand can't exist because the Festival of the Martyrs began in the 4th century - after the canon of scripture was closed.

3. That the Festival of the Martyrs included:

a.) the use of skits which involved participants dressing in costumes representing the Apostles and early heroes of the faith who had been killed by the Romans (i.e.; dressing as dead people).

b.) using the custom of trick or treat while in costume as a means of gathering food for the poor.

(Both of the above are also part of the Jewish festival of Purim, which Jewish historians state was initiated by Mordecai and Esther at the time the book of Esther was written and is still observed today).

3. That the Festival of the Martyrs was moved in the 7th century to November 1 and combined rememberance of the martyrs with the Saints; hence the changing of the name to All Saints Day.
(If you want specific references providing documentation on all the statements above you can refer to the footnotes in post #29 on this thread).

*Sigh*....Pslam25, I join Kyles dad in respecting your right to not observe any type of halloween celebration. Please also know I'm not saying that all kids (or adults - the 'big' kids :D ) need to dress up in costume or trick or treat. However, those customs were in existence within the Jewish culture hundreds of years before Rome combined All Saints Day with Celtic festivals such as Samheim. Though they've now become culturally synonomous with Halloween that doesn't mean their origin was evil.

Let's back up to something else you said: that Satan is an angel of light who'll do anything to steal, kill and destroy. Since Satan is a created being himself, he can't create anything that is evil. All he can do is distort and pervert something that already exists.

Now, let's assume.......and correct me if I'm wrong here - but let's just assume that you're here on the boards because you're a Third Day fan. ;) Now, if my assumption is correct, then that also means you like Third Days music - which is rock music, right? It implies that you find the music of 3D as a viable form of spiritual nourishement and/or entertainment. And you do so in spite of the fact that Satan has distorted the same musical style of rock to promote hedonism, drugs, sex, and *gasp* the occult! :o Even though the gift of music was created to worship God, Satan has taken that and distorted it.

That's what's happened with halloween during the last 1500 years - it's original purpose has become savagely distorted. What began as a way of the church honoring those who bled and died for our faith has gradually morphed into what we know today. Look, I fully agree that todays halloween has been horribly perverted by both mans traditions and Satans deceptions. But that doesn't mean that it cannot also be used for Gods purposes just as we've done with music.

Back to the steal kill, and destroy part again: by isolating ourselves from the world at halloween we remove our presence from the world - and allow Satan to steal our salt and light while we hide it under a bushel. Look, I appreciate the need to protect kids; events such as harvest festivals are a great alternative. But Jesus never taught us to hide from our world. Halloween gives us an incredible opportunity each fall to interact with our culture and point people to Jesus - but instead of hanging out where we can provide a christian presence to our world, we hide out in our churches or homes, scared that we're going to become 'tainted' by the world or influenced by the satanic nature now associated with halloween. While the original Festival of the Martyrs celebrated those who didn't hide their faith - at the cost of their lives - much of todays church has allowed Satan to frighten us into hiding. Now, I don't know about the rest of y'all - but I'm not gonna fall for it anymore.

This holiday was not created as a pagan ritual. It was once Gods day; originally created by the church, for the church, to celebrate the church. As for me and my house, we also serve the Lord - and we're going to take this holiday back.

[jrmitch]

......I have made a decision: in my family this holiday no longer remains the possesion of our fallen culture. The traditions of man and deception of the enemy have ceased to dictate how we celebrate what was once a Christian day of remembrance.

We will not be silent, we will not retreate, and we will not hide. Our Savior has commisioned us to bear fruit in the midst of the deception. We conciously choose obedience to the will of our Father to inflitrate, interact, and inspire our culture by seasoning it with the reality of Jesus lordship over this day. We will do this at work, at home, and in the marketplace......we will embrace those whom God brings our way with the reality of the origins of this day. We will not cease to proclaim that this day was designed to honor those who laid down their lives for what they believe. We will proclaim that Jesus remains Lord over this day, and every day with which we are blessed to draw another breath. We are reclaiming halloween - as well as Christmas and Easter - in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Anyone else care to join us?

Saddle up, Saints - we've got miles to ride......... :D

[Kyle's dad]

Ok...I checked my first post...and I may have come off sounding like that. I apologize. I just tend to be overly "blunt" when I feel so strongly about something. ;)

I don't want to get into a long, drawn out debate over this, but I will say this....because I know too much about...some of the things that go on halloween night and I can not post about it (I know this firshand, because I have suffered, having a parent involved in this when I was younger).
But I will say this....the enemy will do what it takes to steal, kill, and destroy. He hates God and God's children. Satan will use this night (or any night) to attack. Demon worship is more practiced on this day than any other day to my knowledge.

I refuse to allow my children (and myself) to participate in this. That is my decision..that is my dedication to God.

You may think I'm closed minded...but I'm not.....I'm open minded, ....just not so open minded that my brains fall out. ;)

Whatever y'all do...is your choice. Thanks for respecting mine.


No need to apologize, and I wasn't trying to start a long, drawn out debate, and I don't think you're closed minded, in fact I admire your passion. As a father, I could never criticise anyone for wanting to protect their childen.

While, I may not agree with you about Halloween, I respect your reasoning ad rarionale for your decision. I apologize myself if I came across too harsh.

God bless :D

[Kyle's dad]

We will not cease to proclaim that this day was designed to honor those who laid down their lives for what they believe. We will proclaim that Jesus remains Lord over this day, and every day with which we are blessed to draw another breath. We are reclaiming halloween - as well as Christmas and Easter - in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Anyone else care to join us?

Saddle up, Saints - we've got miles to ride......... :D

After reading that, I can't help but think that it can't be a coincedence that Reformation Day, which is of course the anniversary of the day that Martin Luther posted his 95 theses on the door of the church at Wittenberg, also falls on October 31st.

[ExtravagantlyLoved]

Growing up I have always loved Halloween. I would dress up every year and it was just fun. My brother and I went as the Recycle Kids one year. We were little and my mom decided to dress us up in old boxes and stuff. It was fun!! At my old church we had a party every year on Halloween and we would dress up and go to my pastors house and get candy and have a good time. Until I got older, I never knew or heard of anyone who was against Halloween. It was just always one day out of the year where you could dress up, get candy, decorate, and have a good time. It actually surprised me the first time I had some friends who couldn't go trick-or-treating with us because their they didn't celebrate Halloween. I knew that some people went a little over the top on all the scary stuff, but we never did and no one I knew ever did. I've always been easily scared so I never wanted to dress up or decorate with any scary stuff. I don't think that anyone who chooses not to celebrate Halloween in necessarily a closed-minded person. We all have our own opinions about things, I just don't personally have a problem with it, as long as you aren't glorifying evil, which I don't do.

[Psalm25Gomer]

......I have made a decision: in my family this holiday no longer remains the possesion of our fallen culture. The traditions of man and deception of the enemy have ceased to dictate how we celebrate what was once a Christian day of remembrance.

We will not be silent, we will not retreate, and we will not hide. Our Savior has commisioned us to bear fruit in the midst of the deception. We conciously choose obedience to the will of our Father to inflitrate, interact, and inspire our culture by seasoning it with the reality of Jesus lordship over this day. We will do this at work, at home, and in the marketplace......we will embrace those whom God brings our way with the reality of the origins of this day. We will not cease to proclaim that this day was designed to honor those who laid down their lives for what they believe. We will proclaim that Jesus remains Lord over this day, and every day with which we are blessed to draw another breath. We are reclaiming halloween - as well as Christmas and Easter - in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Anyone else care to join us?

Saddle up, Saints - we've got miles to ride......... :D


You still did not give me scriptural reference to your "evidence" up there. ;)
(as for reclaiming holidays for the Lord...we do that everyday. Jesus isn't just the reason for Christmas season or Easter ...He is the reason every day of our lives). :)

We don't hide on halloween, my friend. We just don't participate in the activites that are held on that day. We stay home and have our family time like we always do...pray and do things together at home. The one thing I do, on halloween....I anoint my girls, myself, and everything that is ours....and pray a hedge of protection around us....and Plead the Blood of Jesus over us...I feel very strongly to do this (I do this several times a year...not just on halloween). :)




Whether or not people think it was once a "christian" holiday that got perverted and twisted (and yes, I know satan can and does twist the things of God around...hence "angel of light"..make it cute..it draws more people :rolleyes: ) And I am aware of how satan has taken rock and made it perverted as well...let's get back on the topic now (I see how you are using this example as to explain your post above the one I quoted).......

......I have been exposed to those who celebrate halloween for none other than the sole purpose of glorifying satan. These people have claimed and declared this day "the night of satan". I don't schedule my day around this holiday to "avoid" people out there celebrating...I go about my normal activites.


I understand what you are trying to say.....but I strongly disagree with it. I am in no way trying to rock the boat here. But in my heart...in my soul...in my spirit...this is very wrong. I cannot and will not allow myself and my children to participate in this. It is a spiritual matter.



Thank you for taking time to show me your point of view. Whatever you do..is YOUR choice. Thank you for respecting mine.

God bless.

Leslee-Ann

[Tattooed_Lefty]

I'm looking forward to my annual Halloween party. So are all my friends from seminary who'll be coming to the event. :)

I think Ransom Fellowship had a great article about Halloween this past week.
http://www.ransomfellowship.org/D_Halloween.html

[WeaselInYerFoot]

I celebrate Halloween!

Not because I'm evil, or like evil, or would wan't to be a Satan worshiper.

I just like candy. :)

Of course nowadays, at my age you're lucky if you find a decent way to celebrate, since trick or treating is not something I actually feel confortable doing... More often than not, you get invited to a crappy drinking party where some dumb, drunk, frat kid vomits all over the squirrel costume.

I'm so glad college is over.

[Psalm25Gomer]

I just like candy. :)




I like candy too!! :D


I'm not really suppose to be eating it..... :o

[Tony Trout]

I like candy too!! :D


I'm not really suppose to be eating it..... :o



:eek:

[prayercloth sis]

I have done some studies concerning this holiday...this holiday started with the Celts around two thoudans years ago in Ireland, the United Kingdom and France. They celebrated their new year on Nov. 1 this was the end of summer and the harvest and beginning of the dark cold winter that was often associated with death. Celts believed that n the night before the new year, boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead were blurred.

On Oct. 31, they celebrated Samhain, when it was believed that the ghosts of he dead returned to earth. In addition Celts thought that the presence of the other worldly spirits made it easier for the Celtic Priests to make predictionsabout the future.

To commemorate the event, Druids built large bonfires where people gathered to burn crops and animals as sacrifices to the Deltic deities.

During the celebration, the Celts wore costumes, typically consisting of animal heads and skins, and attempted to tell each others fortunes.

By A. D. 43 Romans had conquered the majority of the Celtic territory. In the course of about four hundred years they ruled the Celtic lands, two festivals of Roman origin were combined with the traditional Celtic celebration of Samhain.

The 1st was Feralia, a day in late October when the Romans traditionally commemorated the passing of the dead. The second was a day to honor Pomona, the Roman goddess of friut and trees. The symbol of Pomona is the apple, and the incorporation of this celebration into Samhain probably explains the tradition of bobbing for apples.

By the 800's the influence of Christianity had spread into Celtic lands. In the 7th century, Pope Boniface designated Nov. 1 All Saints Day, a time to honor Saints and martyrs. The problem with all Saint's Day was it was a holy day, not a festival. The people simply celebrated them both. Two hundred years later the church had still not succeeded in getting rid of the pagan holiday. Pope Gregory had the 3rd had a new idea by sending young men to beg for food and dressed up like saints to hnor the saints.

For the next 700years the Church thought they had won the battle because the Celts celebrated All Saint's Day. The Celts, on the other hand, thought they had won the battle because they still had their holiday with the original ceremonies. Neither realized that Samhain and All Saint's Day were blurring into one holiday.

In 1000 A>D> the church would make Nov. 1 All Soul's Day, a day to honor the dead. It was celebrated with Samhain, with big bonfires, parades, dressing in costumesas saints, angels, and devils. Together the two celebrations, the eve of All Saint's, All Saint's, and All Soul's, were called Hallowmas.

By the 1500's, you couldn't separate the two Samhain or All Saint's Day anymore. Of course by this time, no one called it All Saint's Day. Now it was called All Hallow's Day and the night before was of course, All Hallow's Evening, or in the slang of the villagers, Hallow Evening or simply Halloween.

In the 1800 7.4 million immigrants came to America bringing their customs with them along with 7 hundred thousand Irish Catholics.

In 1921, Anoka Minnesota celebrated the first official city wide observation of Halloween with a pumpkin bowl, a costumed square dance and 2 parades. After that it didn't take Halloween to go nationwide. New York celebrated in 1923, LA in 1925.

Halloween...http://www.historychannel.com/exhibits/halloween/

a better one that was too long to post

http://www.theholidayspot.com/halloween/history.htm

The Celtic Gods of the dead were Gwynn ap Nudd for the British, and Arawn for the Welsh. Thus most of the customs connected with the Day are remnants of the ancient religious beliefs and rituals, first of the Celts and Druids, and the the transcended amongst the Roman Christians who conquered them.

Just do not see God glorified in anything having to do with this.

Prefer to worship God the way the scriptures teach and leave the rest alone.

God Bless

Rhonie

[Psalm25Gomer]

*sigh*


4. Do some homework; know the history of this day, and be prepared and willing to get into those water cooler discussions about whether this day is good or evil. If you just look and listen those chances to add some spiritual seasoning to our culture are all around you if you're brave enough to tackle Satans lies.

As I have said in ALL my posts...I DID do the homework. I studied this for years. I am familiar with the history and the meanings and origins... And that little bit you posted in this thread, I have seen....but I have also seen more than what was stated by anyone in here.
It is a spiritual (war) issue.....not a "it's just a day" issue.
As for "tackling satan's lies"...I do that everyday. But I'm also not ignorant of his devices.







I know many people who love the Lord with all their heart that seize the opportunity this day presents to share their faith. Remember, our ultimate responsibility to our culture is to season it with our presence as salt and light. Whatever you do with this holiday, I pray that it's done in sacrificial obedience to Jesus call to bear fruit in the world around us.


I share the love of Jesus everyday. Halloween is no different as a day to me than any other day...with the exception of the activities going on. Regardless of all the information that was posted (thank you to all who posted that information for us to read) , I refuse to participate in it. My children are not going trick or treating.....or to any bonfires, nor am I passing out candy or tracts (I can just stick those on people's windshields....covers a vast majority that way).



I have stated more than once that this is a decision that I feel is right (for me and my family...I can't answer for anyone else)...to honor the Lord and refrain from being a part of the "celebrations" that take place (before anyone jumps down my throat...this is what I feel the Lord has told me to do...again, I can't answer for anyone else, because what you do is your decision)...I know all too well...the things that most people don't. And I've already explained that.

With all due respect,....you can post at me till your fingers fall off...and I am not going to see it your way. Nor do I expect you to see it my way.

I appreciate all the info you have posted......I have seen it before...and more.

I respect your decision....to do whatever you want to do....thank you for respecting mine. :)

[WeaselInYerFoot]

Regardless of the origins, Halloween has changed. It appears that some people believe that by practicing even the slightest action in the scope of halloween (such as giving out candy, recieving candy, eating candy, storing candy) then you are secretly and unknowingly doing some kind of a malevolant satanic practice that will ruin your life.

Honestly, just because you do something on a specific day, doesn't mean that you have magically transported all things that took place in Salem or a Celtic ceremony into the present world and have sent humanity onto a cataclismic event that will destroy us all.

Stop treating Christianity like a religion and understand that no day (Not even dec 25th) is any different than all the others. Yes, we do some things in honor of, but this halloween argument is just ridiculous.

[mat1583]

Regardless of the origins, Halloween has changed. It appears that some people believe that by practicing even the slightest action in the scope of halloween (such as giving out candy, recieving candy, eating candy, storing candy) then you are secretly and unknowingly doing some kind of a malevolant satanic practice that will ruin your life.

Honestly, just because you do something on a specific day, doesn't mean that you have magically transported all things that took place in Salem or a Celtic ceremony into the present world and have sent humanity onto a cataclismic event that will destroy us all.

Stop treating Christianity like a religion and understand that no day (Not even dec 25th) is any different than all the others. Yes, we do some things in honor of, but this halloween argument is just ridiculous.

I agree completely. This argument unfortunately comes up every year and this is always what it leads to. I'm going to put on my Frodo costume and happily accept candy from anybody giving it out. And I'm 22 and a Christian!!! *gasp*

-washboard

[ExtravagantlyLoved]

I agree completely. This argument unfortunately comes up every year and this is always what it leads to. I'm going to put on my Frodo costume and happily accept candy from anybody giving it out. And I'm 22 and a Christian!!! *gasp*

-washboard
Do you do this with friends? I haven't dressed up in a while mainly because I don't have anything to do on Halloween. If my friends were doing something or if our church was having a party, I'd love to do something. Maybe I can this year. I love to dress up!!

[Yippy]

Though you're obviously not comfortable confronting any aspect of this holiday, there are many of us who have no doubt that we have been called by God to confront Satans deception and call this day what it was originally intended to be: a day set apart to honor those who died for our faith. Peace/Jim
I have never known anyone to actually do this. You're the only one, and I really don't know you. Sounds honorable, I've just never seen it. I have only seen:

Non-Christians trick or treating, partying, etc.
Non-Christians not participating for whatever reason.
Catholics celebrating the day of the dead.
Christians trick or treating, dressing up, partying (non-alcohol).
Christians at alternative "harvest" parties dressing up in non-threatening costumes.
Christians passing out tracts with or without candy.
Christians not participating...
but NEVER

Christians honoring those who died for the faith...Where do you do this and what do you do? I'm curious... :)

[Yippy]

Stop treating Christianity like a religion and understand that no day (Not even dec 25th) is any different than all the others. Yes, we do some things in honor of, but this halloween argument is just ridiculous.
I think this halloween argument is pretty valid. :)

[Psalm25Gomer]

Though you're obviously not comfortable confronting any aspect of this holiday, there are many of us who have no doubt that we have been called by God to confront Satans deception and call this day what it was originally intended to be: a day set apart to honor those who died for our faith. Please pray for those of us out here who are just trying to do what God has told us to do.

That's judgemental. You don't know the calling that is placed on my life. And you seem to think that because I won't "agree" with you...that I am uncomfortable with confronting this ridiculous holiday....and I do not honor those who "died for our faith".....


I honor Jesus and Him alone....who died so I could have life...and have it more abundantly. I look at the paths and the life of those who have walked in the Lord, who have suffered and died for Him...and I learn from what they teach and hold fast to the scriptures the Lord has given them to write. I don't hold parties for them though (but I do respect them...and remember them). I celebrate Jesus...He's the one who set me free.

I am ALWAYS in prayer for those who are doing the work of the Lord. I am doing what God wants me to do.

but this halloween argument is just ridiculous.

No doubt. I only answered Rhonie's question in her first post. I thought I was free to do that without being singled out. Little did I know. :rolleyes: (although I did see that I had the wrong "attitude" in my first post (being overly blunt about something I feel strongly about)...but attitude adjusted :D ).

[dpandtammy]

[FONT=Tahoma]WOW!! So many varying opinions.... What about this one: I read an article a few years ago about Halloween. It said, more or less, that if you lock yourself up in your homes and "hide" from "Halloween", you are giving satan what he wants. He wants us to debate this until we are blue in the face, and sick and tired of it, and then next year, do the same thing all over again, because we are not really confident of whatever we decided to do last year. He wants us to stay home, and let all of his servants "have" the day. The bottom line is this: you have to consider what is best for you and your family. Decide if what you are doing glorifies GOD in any way. If it does not, then you, as a Christian, should under NO circumstances, do it! If you have figured out some way to celebrate on this day that glorifies God, go for it, but don't just "say" we are glorifying God, so you can justify trick-or-treating, or whatever. Actually GLORIFY GOD! And don't decide NOT to go, or TO go, because your friend says it's okay, or the pastor says it's NOT okay. Make your own decision, and be ready to give an answer when someone asks you WHY you chose what you did, because, as a Christian, you will be asked. We are under very close scrutiny, even those who claim to love us and be our friends are holding us under a microscope, and we need to be ready to defend our decision, whatever that may be. God Bless all of you>>>>>>>> ;)

[Light Hearted]

I remember Halloween as a child. I remember the excitement of waiting to watch "The Great Pumpkin" on TV. I remember how fun it was to dress up. I usually wanted to be a Gypsy because I loved the long flowing skirts and all of the jewlery. I also loved the idea of living in a covered wagon and sleeping under the stars. Yes, I am a romantic at heart and a free spirit to boot ;) . For me it wasn't really even about getting allot of candy. It was the one night of the year that my imagination could take flight and I could be whomever I wanted to be. I really think it is tragic that so much focus has been placed on the darker side of things because I think there is so much more to it.

I'm also a Halloween baby and I used to think it was really neat that everyone (or so I thought) celebrated my birthday with me :) .

[Greg]

No I don't.

[jrmitch]

I have never known anyone to actually do this. You're the only one, and I really don't know you. Sounds honorable, I've just never seen it. I have only seen:

Non-Christians trick or treating, partying, etc.
Non-Christians not participating for whatever reason.
Catholics celebrating the day of the dead.
Christians trick or treating, dressing up, partying (non-alcohol).
Christians at alternative "harvest" parties dressing up in non-threatening costumes.
Christians passing out tracts with or without candy.
Christians not participating...
but NEVER

Christians honoring those who died for the faith...Where do you do this and what do you do? I'm curious... :)The original celebration in the early church was called All Martyrs Day, and was established specifically to honor those martyred for their faith in the first three centuries after Christ. The Catholic Church took the existing celebration, combined it with a celebration for the Saints, and renamed it All Saints day. However, the Catholic church did not create the actual holiday; it was created by the Christian church of the 4th century.

As far as how we celebrate that today, that's been my point all along - we don't! However, there are several of us here in Denver (as well as believers I know in other states) who are comfortable taking part in things such as office/school/costume parties, etc; where we have a chance to mingle with non-believers who we know and look for opportunities to talk about the Lord. Even just casual conversation about the holiday at work or school can open doors to talk about it's actual Christian heritage and open up the door to share Jesus.

[Unstereotypical]

Halloween = National Gothic Day. :)

[Unstereotypical]

In reply to all the craziness going on in this thread:

Has anyone ever once thought about dropping the whole fussing and fighting arguement?!

What good is it going to do to fuss and fight and cause division and strife between yourselves?

Some people refuse to deal with Halloween, some people love it.

Just leave it at that, instead of ramming opinions down people's throats that THEY SHOULD, THEY MUST celebrate Halloween. It is their choice if they want to or not.

Also, I don't know if you know it or not, but no one really wants to read all the fussing and fighting and bickering anyways. It is really a waste of Internet space.

I only like Halloween b/c you can dress as stupid as you want to without anyone laughing at you. Also, it is the only day of the whole year when a Gothic is actually accepted in society. Other than that, I won't nothing to do with it.

[jrmitch]

In reply to all the craziness going on in this thread:

Has anyone ever once thought about dropping the whole fussing and fighting arguement?!

What good is it going to do to fuss and fight and cause division and strife between yourselves?.....Y'know, you've got a point, and I stand humbly corrected.

I'll immediately remove any offensive/argumentative posts from this thread. Thanks for the gentle correction. ;)

[Unstereotypical]

Thank you, and your welcome. :)

[prayercloth sis]

I originally posted this thread because I wondered if other folks on these boards celebrated this holiday and why they celebrated this holiday.

This thread is open for any and all discussions concerning the holiday of Halloween.

Everyone is entitled to their own personal convictions and beliefs and I thank everyone for posting on here. I have enjoyed reading about the personal convictions and why some of you celebrate this holiday.

Of course we all will not agree on this matter, we all have different convictions and walks with God.

I personally have never heard of celebrating the dead.

Saint or not.

My personal opinion is that if we should celebrate anything, it should be centered around Jesus. No one else.

Too much idolization in the world, and too many holidays that do not give God all of the glory.

He is a jealous God, Thou shalt worship the Lord thy God and no one else.
Thou swhalt have no other Gods before me.

Costumes, and bonfires, and trick or treating, definitely did not start with the Christian Church, as it is never mentioned in the scriptures by the Apostles.

Any type of witchcraft, necromancing, celebrating that started from non-christian backgrounds should not be participated in by any Christian. The scriptures tell us to not be deceived ....

I read the historical accounts posted here, and they did not go far enough back into history to get the correct account.

This holiday did start with the Celts and the Druids and was later mixed with the Roman Catholic holidays.

That's why theres such a diversity in the customs.

Needless to say there are better things to do with our time than celebrate candy, the dead, etc...

Telling folks about Jesus and his saving power or spending time with our families, studying the word of God, or praying....

Just to note, the satanist celebrate this day and sacrifice and chant and have rituals and put curses on folks. The list could go on.

The scriptures tell us to come outfrom among them and be ye a separated people. I choose not to celebrate a day that satanist celebrate.

On a lighter side...

Just so the children would not feel left out, my Pastor on a day that wasn't Oct. 31, would get upon top of the church and have a candy rain. He then would teach about the blessings of God, and how God showers us with his blessings.

However you decide to spend this day, May God shower you with his many blessings.

Sincerely and respectively,

Rhonie

[Yippy]

In reply to all the craziness going on in this thread:

Has anyone ever once thought about dropping the whole fussing and fighting arguement?!

What good is it going to do to fuss and fight and cause division and strife between yourselves?

Some people refuse to deal with Halloween, some people love it.

Just leave it at that, instead of ramming opinions down people's throats that THEY SHOULD, THEY MUST celebrate Halloween. It is their choice if they want to or not.

Also, I don't know if you know it or not, but no one really wants to read all the fussing and fighting and bickering anyways. It is really a waste of Internet space.

.
See, this is so interesting to me, because I never thought this thread was crazy and I never thought anyone was ramming their opinions down peoples' throats. Where's the fussing and fighting? People are just giving different points of view and then expounding if necessary. I love reading all the differing opinions. You just might learn something. Why is conversation a waste of internet space? No one's being forced to read the thread or post. I guess it's how you read a thread. :)

[Little Diva]

See, this is so interesting to me, because I never thought this thread was crazy and I never thought anyone was ramming their opinions down peoples' throats. Where's the fussing and fighting? People are just giving different points of view and then expounding if necessary. I love reading all the differing opinions. You just might learn something. Why is conversation a waste of internet space? No one's being forced to read the thread or post. I guess it's how you read a thread. :)

I agree with you Yippy there is defo no fussing and fighting here its just opinions and thoughts. Nothing i can see that says that you must do this my way or what you believe is wrong. Its good to see what people think of the original question asked which was "Do you celebrate Haloween and if you do how?"

[jrmitch]

This holiday did start with the Celts and the Druids and was later mixed with the Roman Catholic holidays.....That's why theres such a diversity in the customs.Rhonie, you and I have had some pretty healthy dialogue on other threads; thanks again for your tolerance in allowing those who differ a chance to explain why.

Having said that, I'll respectfully need to disagree with you on several points. Not to belabor the point (much :D ).....but I don't find that history shows us that this holiday started with the Celts and Druids. I know many churches and teachers insist that it did; however, when you ask for historical documentation to support that belief you can never find any. Instead, the same general theories constantly get recycled and repeated over and over, constantly being presented as a fact even though there is no factual proof in support of the supposed fact. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What is a fact is that there are very little facts! We know that the Celts had a festival honoring Samheim based around the winter solstice (which is actually in September on the Roman Calendar), and we also know that Rome possibly relocated All Saints day to the fall as a means of countering that pagan holiday. But the only eyewitness accounts of Druid behavior came from Roman invasion forces in the first century. And since there are no written records of Druid customs the assumptions of how they celebrated the holiday are just that - assumptions - because we don't know what they did:

"No early Celtic literature has been preserved… The Druids, did not commit their learning to writing." "Celts," c.1, Twentieth Century Encyclopedia, World Literary Guild, 1934

"Our information respecting [the druids] is borrowed from notices in the Greek and Roman writers, compared with the remains of Welsh and Gaelic poetry still extant. …That the Druids offered sacrifices to their deity there can be no doubt. But there is some uncertainty as to what they offered, and of the ceremonies connected with their religious services we know almost nothing. The classical (Roman) writers affirm that they offered on great occasions human sacrifices; as for success in war or for relief from dangerous diseases. …Many attempts have been made by Celtic writers to shake the testimony of Roman historians to this fact, but without success. …It is certain that they [the druids] committed nothing of their doctrine, their history, or their poetry to writing. Their teaching was oral, and their literature (if such a word may be used in such a case) was preserved solely by tradition." p358-361, Bulfinch, Thomas, Bulfinch's Mythology, Anenel Books, NY, 1978

"The only specific reference to druids encountered by the Romans when they invaded Britain is in connection with the assault on Mona (Anglesey) in 61 A.D. under the command of Seutonius Paulinus." v.9, p.420, 1a, Encyclopedia Americana, Grolier Corp., Danbury, CN, 1991

"The ancient Celts did not write down their history and religion and poetry. Literature written in the Celtic languages did not begin to grow up until much later. The earliest Celtic literature that we have was written about 1200 A.D." p.343, col.2, par.5, Illustrated World Encyclopedia, Bobbley Publ., NY, 1978

Costumes...and trick or treating, definitely did not start with the Christian Church, as it is never mentioned in the scriptures by the ApostlesYou're right, they aren't mentioned by the Apostles. But they are in the Bible, as they are a part of the celebration of Purim, which was initiated by Esther and Mordecai 600 years before the birth of Christ and 1300 years before they were supposedly adopted from the pagan celebrations. (We have proof of this from the book of Esther as well as Jewish historians). Since the early church would have been almost exclusively Jewish, it's quite possible that those customs carried over into their culture. And since all the Apostles were dead and the canon of scripture had been closed, there's no way they would have been noticed by the Apostles .

Though we have little evidence of Druid celebrations we do have historical proof that the original Feast of the Martyrs began in the 4th century Christian church, and that the Catholic church absorbed that celebration into All Saints Day hundreds of years later. We also know that the customs of dressing in costume and going door to door to collect food for the poor played an important role in the holiday:

"A Feast of All Martyrs was kept on May 13 in the Eastern Church according to Ephraem Syrus (who died 373 AD)." v.1, p.275, 2a, Encyclopedia Britannica, Chicago, IL, 1992

"In the late 4th century, a feast of All Martyrs was observed by the Eastern Syrians on May 13 and by the West Syrians and Byzantines on the Sunday following Pentecost. Pope Boniface IV received from the emperor Phocas (reigned 602-610) the Pantheon at Rome, which he dedicated on May 13 to St. Mary and All Martyrs. The Feast of All Saints on November 1 was promulgated by Pope Gregory IV in 835, in place of the May festival." v.16, p.308, 1a, Encyclopedia Britannica, Chicago, IL, 1992

"On All Hallows, many churches staged plays called pageants for the benefit of their members. Each pageant participant dressed up as the patron saint of his special guardian. Those who did not play the part of a 'holy one' played the part of devils. The procession then marched from the church out into the churchyard where the play might continue until late in the evening." p 36b, Phillips, P., Halloween and Satanism, Starburst Publ., Penn, 1987

"[They would] walk door to door begging food for the poor… chanting: Soul, soul! for a soul cake! I pray, good mistress, for a soul cake! An apple or pear, or plum or a cherry. Any good thing to make us merry. One for Peter, two for Paul, Three for Him who made us all. Up with the kettle, down with the pan. Give us good alms and we'll be gone. Alms, were the money of the common people. A soul cake was a square bun decorated with currants. During the holiday, bakers would fill their shops with soul cakes." pp. 31, ibid.

Needless to say there are better things to do with our time than celebrate candy, the dead, etc...Telling folks about Jesus and his saving power or spending time with our families, studying the word of God, or praying....[B]Thank you! That's what I've been saying all along: the very nature of Halloween opens up opportunities to share Jesus! And you don't have to dress up, go trick or treat, or go to parties to do that. I have this happen to me every year: I'll be in a conversation with someone about Halloween, casually mention that part of it's origin is Christian, and boom - instant oportunity to introduce Jesus into the conversation by talking about the early church festival that preceded Halloween.

I'm well aware of the importance Halloween currently posseses within the world of paganism and the occult; I'm also certainly not defending many of the extremes we've seen todays celebrations turn into. But we use Christmas and Easter every year to culturally talk about Jesus, and yet also incorporate paganism into those celebrations (especially Christmas). To me, it just make sense that as part of his plan to steal, kill, and destroy Satan would take a day once created for the church and pervert it for his own use. That's part of what has happened with Halloween - it's nothing close to what it once resembled. But that doesn't mean that we can't turn the tables on Satans distortion of the day and use how Hallowen is observed now as a bridge to talk about Jesus anyway!

I understand the information I've posted isn't common knowledge within much of the church; and I used to believe the same arguments about Halloween until I decided to check out their validity. And when I did, I was both suprised and a little peeved that most arguments about Halloweens origin ignore the 4th century Festival of the Martyrs and just recycle the same assumptive theories every year without factual support. That, to me, is part of Satans deception. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to believe; just sharing the information I've come across and pointing out some of the contradictions I've seen.

Let me also clearly say I'm not trying to be anyone's conscience; whether one chooses to participate in the cultural celebrations of Halloween should always be a persons choice. I also don't mean that we should return to the original celebration of All Martyrs day and celebrate the dead. But the dark nature of this day creates unique opportunities for sharing our faith; all I'm trying to do is encourage us to be on the lookout for those chances and be ready with an answer. And Rhonie, though I know you and I disagree on some things, I think we can at least agree on that! ;)

Peace, my sister/Jim

[Hawkeye Childs]

i think it's fun to dress up and maybe go to a costume party. i dont see anything wrong with as long as you're not doing witchcraft or worship satan or something like that. but i think it's a fun time for kids to go trick or treating...it's a fun time to be something other than yourself for a day :) who can say costumes aren't fun? :) so in my opinion..just keep it fun and lighthearted and eat plenty of candy :)

[Healing Oil]

I see nothing wrong with costumes or massive candy consumption. Halloween is so commercialized now and I feel it isnt seen as evil as it used to be.

As long as we arent drinking blood or killing cats, I am fine with Halloween.

[Tribal]

As long as we arent drinking blood or killing cats, I am fine with Halloween.

Oh, so now you're judging me?





























j/k :p

[prayercloth sis]

Rhonie, you and I have had some pretty healthy dialogue on other threads; thanks again for your tolerance in allowing those who differ a chance to explain why.

Having said that, I'll respectfully need to disagree with you on several points. Not to belabor the point (much :D ).....but I don't find that history shows us that this holiday started with the Celts and Druids. I know many churches and teachers insist that it did; however, when you ask for historical documentation to support that belief you can never find any. Instead, the same general theories constantly get recycled and repeated over and over, constantly being presented as a fact even though there is no factual proof in support of the supposed fact. :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

What is a fact is that there are very little facts! We know that the Celts had a festival honoring Samheim based around the winter solstice (which is actually in September on the Roman Calendar), and we also know that Rome possibly relocated All Saints day to the fall as a means of countering that pagan holiday. But the only eyewitness accounts of Druid behavior came from Roman invasion forces in the first century. And since there are no written records of Celtic/Druid customs the assumptions of how they celebrated the holiday are just that - assumptions - because we don't know what they did:

"No early Celtic literature has been preserved… The Druids, did not commit their learning to writing." "Celts," c.1, Twentieth Century Encyclopedia, World Literary Guild, 1934

"Our information respecting [the druids] is borrowed from notices in the Greek and Roman writers, compared with the remains of Welsh and Gaelic poetry still extant. …That the Druids offered sacrifices to their deity there can be no doubt. But there is some uncertainty as to what they offered, and of the ceremonies connected with their religious services we know almost nothing. The classical (Roman) writers affirm that they offered on great occasions human sacrifices; as for success in war or for relief from dangerous diseases. …Many attempts have been made by Celtic writers to shake the testimony of Roman historians to this fact, but without success. …It is certain that they [the druids] committed nothing of their doctrine, their history, or their poetry to writing. Their teaching was oral, and their literature (if such a word may be used in such a case) was preserved solely by tradition." p358-361, Bulfinch, Thomas, Bulfinch's Mythology, Anenel Books, NY, 1978

"The only specific reference to druids encountered by the Romans when they invaded Britain is in connection with the assault on Mona (Anglesey) in 61 A.D. under the command of Seutonius Paulinus." v.9, p.420, 1a, Encyclopedia Americana, Grolier Corp., Danbury, CN, 1991

"The ancient Celts did not write down their history and religion and poetry. Literature written in the Celtic languages did not begin to grow up until much later. The earliest Celtic literature that we have was written about 1200 A.D." p.343, col.2, par.5, Illustrated World Encyclopedia, Bobbley Publ., NY, 1978

You're right, they aren't mentioned by the Apostles. But they are in the Bible, as they are a part of the celebration of Purim, which was initiated by Esther and Mordecai 600 years before the birth of Christ and 1300 years before they were supposedly adopted from the pagan celebrations. (We have proof of this from the book of Esther as well as Jewish historians). Since the early church would have been almost exclusively Jewish, it's quite possible that those customs carried over into their culture. And since all the Apostles were dead and the canon of scripture had been closed, there's no way they would have been noticed by the Apostles .

Though we have little evidence of Druid celebrations we do have historical proof that the original Feast of the Martyrs began in the 4th century Christian church, and that the Catholic church absorbed that celebration into All Saints Day hundreds of years later. We also know that the customs of dressing in costume and going door to door to collect food for the poor played an important role in the holiday:

"A Feast of All Martyrs was kept on May 13 in the Eastern Church according to Ephraem Syrus (who died 373 AD)." v.1, p.275, 2a, Encyclopedia Britannica, Chicago, IL, 1992

"In the late 4th century, a feast of All Martyrs was observed by the Eastern Syrians on May 13 and by the West Syrians and Byzantines on the Sunday following Pentecost. Pope Boniface IV received from the emperor Phocas (reigned 602-610) the Pantheon at Rome, which he dedicated on May 13 to St. Mary and All Martyrs. The Feast of All Saints on November 1 was promulgated by Pope Gregory IV in 835, in place of the May festival." v.16, p.308, 1a, Encyclopedia Britannica, Chicago, IL, 1992

"On All Hallows, many churches staged plays called pageants for the benefit of their members. Each pageant participant dressed up as the patron saint of his special guardian. Those who did not play the part of a 'holy one' played the part of devils. The procession then marched from the church out into the churchyard where the play might continue until late in the evening." p 36b, Phillips, P., Halloween and Satanism, Starburst Publ., Penn, 1987

"[They would] walk door to door begging food for the poor… chanting: Soul, soul! for a soul cake! I pray, good mistress, for a soul cake! An apple or pear, or plum or a cherry. Any good thing to make us merry. One for Peter, two for Paul, Three for Him who made us all. Up with the kettle, down with the pan. Give us good alms and we'll be gone. Alms, were the money of the common people. A soul cake was a square bun decorated with currants. During the holiday, bakers would fill their shops with soul cakes." pp. 31, ibid.

[B]Thank you! That's what I've been saying all along: the very nature of Halloween opens up opportunities to share Jesus! And you don't have to dress up, go trick or treat, or go to parties to do that. I have this happen to me every year: I'll be in a conversation with someone about Halloween, casually mention that part of it's origin is Christian, and boom - instant oportunity to introduce Jesus into the conversation by talking about the early church festival that preceded Halloween.

I'm well aware of the importance Halloween currently posseses within the world of paganism and the occult; I'm also certainly not defending many of the extremes we've seen todays celebrations turn into. But we use Christmas and Easter every year to culturally talk about Jesus, and yet also incorporate paganism into those celebrations (especially Christmas). To me, it just make sense that as part of his plan to steal, kill, and destroy Satan would take a day once created for the church and pervert it for his own use. That's part of what has happened with Halloween - it's nothing close to what it once resembled. But that doesn't mean that we can't turn the tables on Satans distortion of the day and use how Hallowen is observed now as a bridge to talk about Jesus anyway!

I understand the information I've posted isn't common knowledge within much of the church; and I used to believe the same arguments about Halloween until I decided to check out their validity. And when I did, I was both suprised and a little peeved that most arguments about Halloweens origin ignore the 4th century Festival of the Martyrs and just recycle the same assumptive theories every year without factual support. That, to me, is part of Satans deception. I'm not trying to tell anyone what to believe; just sharing the information I've come across and pointing out some of the contradictions I've seen.

Let me also clearly say I'm not trying to be anyone's conscience; whether one chooses to participate in the cultural celebrations of Halloween should always be a persons choice. I also don't mean that we should return to the original celebration of All Martyrs day and celebrate the dead. But the dark nature of this day creates unique opportunities for sharing our faith; all I'm trying to do is encourage us to be on the lookout for those chances and be ready with an answer. And Rhonie, though I know you and I disagree on some things, I think we can at least agree on that! ;)

Peace, my sister/Jim

You are a true gentleman sir.

God Bless

Rhonie

[WeaselInYerFoot]

Perhaps I overreacted. My apologies :(

This subject is very common right now and I've had some really bizzare conversations with fellow christians (I.E. "Anyone who even gives out candy us just letting Satan into their house").

[jrmitch]

.....about the origin of Halloween. This was taken from the web site of St. Thomas Episcopal Church in Reidsville, NC:

The History of All Saint's Day

Many scholars believe the commemoration of All Saint's Day on the first of November began in Ireland, spread to England, and then to the continent of Europe. This belief is founded on a letter by Pope Gregory the Fourth in the ninth century which decrees the observance of this festival throughout the Holy Roman Empire.

However, the desire of Christians to observe a day where we recognize the intercommunion of all Christians past and present far predates the ninth century. The earliest observance of a festival of all martyrs is mentioned in the writings of Gregory Thaumaturgus before the year 270. One hundred years later, a deacon by the name of Ephrem, mentions the observance of such a day in the city of Edessa on May 13th. Finally, John Chrysostom noted the observance of All Saint's was celebrated on the Sunday after Pentecost in Constantinople prior to 407.

All Saint's Day is an opportunity for us to remember that death has been overcome. When we worship we worship God with all of the saints, past, present and future. When we receive communion we are receiving a foretaste of the heavenly banquet God has prepared.

[jrmitch]

Perhaps I overreacted. My apologies :(

This subject is very common right now and I've had some really bizzare conversations with fellow christians (I.E. "Anyone who even gives out candy us just letting Satan into their house").Don't worry 'bout it; I have bizzare conversations with fellow Christians every year about this holiday :D

[prayercloth sis]

At least the folks on this board actually know what they believe and most of us know why we believe it...which is saying alot these days.

God bless you all for choosing to serve the Lord!

Rhonie

[prayercloth sis]

Just to note I have never enjoyed scary movies or haunted houses...too much of the real stuff around for me to enjoy the fake.

God Bless and have a safe October

Rhonie

[SueQ]

I read the 2 articles recommended earlier in this thread...very good and thought provoking...We celebrated it as kids and my daughter and I have celebrated it focusing on costumes that are not "dark" in nature...as she grows spiritually she has moved away from it...not really interested as much...last year we didn't do much...we had candy for kids who stopped by...but few did...didn't have a pumpkin either...then one of my colleagues sent me something I want to share:


Someone asks his friend what it's like being a Christian...the Christain answers that it is like being a pumpkin...having confused his friend he explains...."Being a Christain is like being a pumpkin....God picks you out of the dirty patch and cleans off the mud...Then He takes all the icky stuff out of you and creates a smile for your face....then He lights up a candle inside you for others to see..."

My daughter and I are carving a pumpkin this year..... ;)

[prayercloth sis]

My parents were married on October 31 so we always celebrated their anniversary....

We are having a little get together at the church this Friday...with games and such....anytime yourpromote christian fellowship....and love towards one another...can't find a thing wrong with that....

As far as our beliefs..we all have a right to believe what we choose...That's why we live in America the greatest country on the face of the Earth.

I for one believe it is okay to share our convictions with one another...and share scriptural refernece with them....

Have thoroughly enjoyed this thread...Thank you all for your responses and may the Lord richly bless you ...

Rhonie

[Yippy]

As far as our beliefs..we all have a right to believe what we choose...That's why we live in America the greatest country on the face of the Earth.

I for one believe it is okay to share our convictions with one another...and share scriptural refernece with them....

Have thoroughly enjoyed this thread...Thank you all for your responses and may the Lord richly bless you ...

Rhonie

1. Everyone in the world has the right to believe what they choose...they just might be killed for it...

2. I think it's okay, too. :)

3. I also have enjoyed this thread. :)

[Pouye]

I just don't agree with people who say that because I allow my son to dress up as Bob the Builder and collect a little bit of candy from the neighbors, that I am somehow indoctrinating him into a cult.

I laughed so hard at this it hurt! Thanks Kyle's dad!

Rock

[Hawkeye Childs]

that's awesome! :) good way to put it! thanks!

[prayercloth sis]

Okay it's Oct 30 for a few more minutes so what do you have planned for the 31st?????

Me....hope for not too much homework and spend some fun time with my children....

God bless and have a safe and fun holiday!!!!

Rhonie

[Pamster]

I am sitting here at work, dressed as Snow White.

I am celebrating Halloween I guess. I don't see anything wrong with it personally.

I work for CPS, and the kids that come through here are usually pretty sad looking, you can see it in their eyes. Well today, 2 of them lit up like crazy when they saw me.

I will be passing out candy tonight too. It gives me a chance to get to know my neighbors in the rushed society that we live in. You'd be amazed how God can work his way into that too...

[rossid]

Here in central Iowa we have Beggar's Night so all the trick or treating was last night. At the last minute our six and eight year said they wanted to go out. One was a Rams football player and the other was a princess. Since they grew up with trick or treating they had us knock on all of the doors. Overall I think they had a great time and we were comfortable in the decision to go around the neighborhood.

I've just got an orange, no not a Gomer, shirt on today at work.

:D

[Hawkeye Childs]

well tonight i'm teaching a dance class...but i'll be wearing my fake eye-lashes and my fidora...;) FUN!

[LKellis25]

I love Fall time and I like Halloween. I obviously dont celebrate it cause I like evil things or its origin 100s of years ago.
I have sooo many good memories from fall time and Halloween because my Bday is the 23rd. My parents always had Bday parties for me and sometimes they were halloween themed. I have always tried to stay away from the stuff that is really evil looking and what not I guess. I will go to a haunted hayride or house and stuff. Its just fun! come on. You can't be so anal about things when they are just for fun. Now if you are sitting around doing seances and play with weggie boards then that is not good and its dangerious. Thats not even Halloween stuff anyway... So... I think it is perfectly fine as long as it as taken for what it is. Just a time to have some fun, dress up, carve pumkins, and enjoy a little extra candy!
Im going to be a Trucker Girl for my Church's Harvest Festival tonight! yah! yeah yeah my Church thinks they gotta call it a harvest festival "Halloween Alternative"

[Kyle's dad]

Im going to be a Trucker Girl for my Church's Harvest Festival tonight! yah! yeah yeah my Church thinks they gotta call it a harvest festival "Halloween Alternative"

I have noticed that a lot of churches replace the Halloween alternative with "Harvest Festival," which by the way, like Halloween has its roots in paganism. Personally I am not offended by Halloween or Harvest Festival, but if a church feels the need to have a celebration on October 31st that is alternative to Halloween why not honor Reformation Day? October 31st is Reformation Day. It's the day that many churches celebrate the anniversary of the 16th century reformation that began when Martin Luther posted his 95 theses on the door of the church at Wittenberg, Germany. It can't be that the pastors just aren't aware of this, it's common knowledge among pastors and most active lay-people. I can't imagine why any Christian (except of course maybe Catholics) would be offended at the idea of honoring Reformation day. Maybe I am being nitpicky but it just seems that as far as alternatives to Halloween go, Reformation Day is much preferable to a Harvest Festival celebration.

[super]

if you count trick or treating then i do

[Trillamum]

I have to say I've really enjoyed this thread. This year was the first time since I was 3 that I've dressed up for Halloween, and the first time ever that I went trick-or-treating. I have to say it was fun. I don't think I'll be doing it again next year (well, maybe the costume part, I like costumes and any excuse to wear one will do) but, I'm glad I did it at least once in my life. Just one thought on the whole "harvest festival/halloween alternative" deal. It's always seemed like a cop-out to me. It's liek the church is saying "halloween is bad, so instead, we're going to have this other thing, with all the key characteristics of how the majority of the population celebrates it, at the same time as it, but, we're giving it a different name, so it's ok" I don't know, to me, it just seems pretty hypocritical. I mean, if you want to celebrate it, do, if you don't, don't. But don't try to somehow "sanitize" it by simply re-naming it. Not trying to offend anyone who's church does this, and if you have some enlightening thoughts on the matter, I'd love to hear them. Just my 2 cents....

[SueQ]

I have noticed that a lot of churches replace the Halloween alternative with "Harvest Festival," which by the way, like Halloween has its roots in paganism.

That's always made me wonder, too...how is that any more Godly? I do like the idea of Reformation Day...although my daughter's Catholic School wouldn't celebrate that but our church would....Someday I'll have to explain how I have a daughter, whose father was a Muslim, is raised in a Baptist church while going to a Catholic school... :confused: ....thankfully she is the least confused of anyone I know....she is grounded in truth with a compassion for the lost... :)

[Hawkeye Childs]

Do all Holidays HAVE to have a Christian basis? i dont think so.

[Nilknarf]

Thank everyone for the tone in these threads (They will know us by our Love).

There is a great business book out there called "Good to Great". One of the titans of industry wrote it. His focus is that the enemy of the great succesful companies is the "good" things that distract them from becoming great.

I believe God created EVERYTHING for our benefit. Satan twists them all for his purposes. Food - gluttony (and alcohol - drunkeness), sex - pornography, adultery, etc..., celebrations of fellowship and fun???

Perhaps we can win the holiday back for God's purposes, but I'm not sure... Let's be praying for God's guidance for pursuing what would be the greatest use of our time and energies, and glorify Him.

Yeah, I gave in and took our kids trick or treating in the neighborhood and we did the church festival thing (it was really good) But I can't help wonder what would have been best. I'm still struggling with this one. Our small group is divided, half don't celebrate at all (not even the church festival) the other half do. We have a member of the small group involved in public ministry that actually filmed our trick or treat outing and the costumes. They just can't resist the creative side of it. For me that's one of my hold ups. Our Mighty God is a Creator, a true artist. I think He delights in our creativity. (when it honors Him...)

Oh well. Sanctification is awesome,

Frank

[MadCatholicGomer]

Kyle's dad, I see what you're saying. I just find it a lot easier reconciling Christmas and Easter tradition with my beliefs than I do Halloween.

That is absolutely true. Celebrating "All the Hallowed" would be a specifically Catholic and Orthodox thing... ie. November 1st is All Saints Day.

[MadCatholicGomer]

I have never known anyone to actually do this. You're the only one, and I really don't know you. Sounds honorable, I've just never seen it. I have only seen:

Non-Christians trick or treating, partying, etc.
Non-Christians not participating for whatever reason.
Catholics celebrating the day of the dead.
Christians trick or treating, dressing up, partying (non-alcohol).
Christians at alternative "harvest" parties dressing up in non-threatening costumes.
Christians passing out tracts with or without candy.
Christians not participating...
but NEVER

Christians honoring those who died for the faith...Where do you do this and what do you do? I'm curious... :)

The Catholic Church does this every year. Both on Halloween and All Saints Day

[MadCatholicGomer]

we do have historical proof that the original Feast of the Martyrs began in the 4th century Christian church, and that the Catholic church absorbed that celebration into All Saints Day hundreds of years later. We also know that the customs of dressing in costume and going door to door to collect food for the poor played an important role in the holiday:


I don't understand this idea that somehow the "Feast of the Martyrs" of the "Christian Church" was somehow "absorbed" by the Catholic Church... I mean, what do you think they were doing on the Feast of the Martyrs if not asking for their intercession. To say that somehow the Catholic Church is different... well... "Grr" that is all I have to say.

[EYESHIGHER]

No way

[MadCatholicGomer]

Now if you are sitting around doing seances and play with weggie boards then that is not good and its dangerious.

Did anyone else get a chuckle at the idea of weggie boards?

[MadCatholicGomer]

I have noticed that a lot of churches replace the Halloween alternative with "Harvest Festival," which by the way, like Halloween has its roots in paganism. Personally I am not offended by Halloween or Harvest Festival, but if a church feels the need to have a celebration on October 31st that is alternative to Halloween why not honor Reformation Day? October 31st is Reformation Day. It's the day that many churches celebrate the anniversary of the 16th century reformation that began when Martin Luther posted his 95 theses on the door of the church at Wittenberg, Germany. It can't be that the pastors just aren't aware of this, it's common knowledge among pastors and most active lay-people. I can't imagine why any Christian (except of course maybe Catholics) would be offended at the idea of honoring Reformation day. Maybe I am being nitpicky but it just seems that as far as alternatives to Halloween go, Reformation Day is much preferable to a Harvest Festival celebration.

I don't see why celebrating the division of Christians is a good thing, when Jesus prayed that we may all be one.

[MadCatholicGomer]

Do all Holidays HAVE to have a Christian basis? i dont think so.

Well considering the word "holiday" comes from the phrase "holy day" and days can only be holy because they are celebrated by the Christian Church... yes!

[middletree]

Well considering the word "holiday" comes from the phrase "holy day" and days can only be holy because they are celebrated by the Christian Church... yes!
What a word originally meant often has nothing to do with current meaning.

[SueQ]

What a word originally meant often has nothing to do with current meaning.

.....that's what a lot of people say about the Bible...that today's meaning is different.....I don't believe that....

[Hawkeye Childs]

.....that's what a lot of people say about the Bible...that today's meaning is different.....I don't believe that....

i don't either. but we're not talking about the Bible or any kind of Holy Scripture....this is a WORD...one word...that is just a noun used everyday in the world. Look at how words have changed...Cool used to mean you were chilly or cold...now it's something that is popular or "awesome"...the word "gay" was happy....now it is another word for homosexual...

or even look at Latin...most of our english language came from latin...and we had dirivitives from a lot of those words and they mean something different today than they did then.

We are not talking about the Bible...we are talking about mere words.

thanks middletree. :)

[middletree]

I don't celebrate Halloween, but I have handed out candy in the past, because I see it as an opportunity to see someone. You never know what's going on in the spiritual realm. If someone sees Jesus in you when you smile at them and hand them a goodie, it might be part of a seed-planting, and you may very well never know about it.

I am curious how many people here engage in the following practices which also have roots in false or pagan religions. Have you ever:

1. Said "bless you" when someone sneezes? (Middle Age belief that the spirit leaves the body when you sneeze)

2. Made a wish upon a star? (Astrology)

3. Had a Christmas tree? (evergreen trees are mentioned 13 times in the Old Testament, always having to do with idolatry. Also, the Druids used it in their religious practices)

4. Referred to tomorrow as Thursday? (named after Thor, a mythic god)

5. Referred to Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, or Sunday? (all names coming from astrology or false religions)

6. Celebrated Easter? (the egg and rabbit are symbols of fertility; the name Easter can be traced back to Astoreth or Ashera, wooden idols mentioned in the Old Testament)

7. Ever pulled a wishbone of a chicken/turkey and made a wish? (animal sacrifices common with practicioners of Wicca)

[middletree]

.....that's what a lot of people say about the Bible...that today's meaning is different.....I don't believe that....
Two different things

[Hawkeye Childs]

thank you middletree....very good points. very good.

[MadCatholicGomer]

What a word originally meant often has nothing to do with current meaning.

Well, I was sort of just kidding...

[middletree]

Well, I was sort of just kidding...
Oh, Ok. Sorry.

[Pamster]

Did anyone else get a chuckle at the idea of weggie boards?

I did :)

Ouiji boards open the door to demons
Weggie boards open the door to skidmarks

both scary though...

[Hawkeye Childs]

I did :)

Ouiji boards open the door to demons
Weggie boards open the door to skidmarks

both scary though...

*falls over laughing* :D

[gzusfreq]

I got home from work at 5:00pm and was asleep by 6. I guess I don't celebrate halloween. ;)

[Kyle's dad]

I don't see why celebrating the division of Christians is a good thing, when Jesus prayed that we may all be one.


Well, we are all one, in Christ. Our unity is found in our faith, not in whatever denomination we belong to. You can blame the emergence of multiple denominations on Luther and the reformers all you want, but don't forget it was the RC church that forced Luther's hand when they excommunicated him. It was the German princes that stood up for Luther in front of the emporer who basically took away the stranglehold that Rome had on Christianity. All Luther did was refuse to recant what he knew to be true; that we are saved by faith in the promises of God through His Son Christ Jesus. He never wanted a split, he wanted to reform from within.

No disrespect intended, but it really is comical to me that the Catholic church continues to blame the emergence of multiple denominations on Luther. It was going to happen with or without him. The corrupt 16th century RC church had created such oppressive conditions that a reformation was inevitable, whether it was initiated by Luther or Melanchthan or Knox or Calvin, it was going to happen. Plus all of this was taking place during the enlightenement when there were amazing advances in science and medicine which would double life expectancy in less than a hundred years which would lead to a surge in population growth the likes of which they had never seen before. The population of the planet would grow more in the next 500 years then it had in the previous 2000. Conditions dictated that eventually Rome would lose it's near monoploy on the Christian faith.

Do you seriously think that Luther is to blame for the emergence of the likes of Benny Hinn?

[SueQ]

Good points! Thanks everyone for keeping my mind sharp and growing, as well as my spiritual sharpening! Proverbs 27:17...... I love these "conversations"! :D