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WeaselInYerFoot
09-16-2005, 01:37 PM
I found this article and really liked it. In this generation (last few decades actually) with video games emerging as a cultural feature parents should get their act together, do a little research and understand that "pong" isn't as innocent anymore. But at the same time, understand the benefits and unity that they can provide if done correctly (it beats family time watching "My Dog Skip").

By Tom Loftus
Columnist
MSNBC
Updated: 3:19 p.m. ET Sept. 9, 2005
Steven Rechtschaffner remembers the day his two sons, ages 17 and 13, discovered the copy of “Grand Theft Auto” he had stashed away in his Vancouver home. “It was weird at first,” Rechtschaffner recalled. “But it forced us to talk about the game. It was me asking, what did you think?”
Geneviève Lord faced a similar episode when her two sons, ages 15 and 11, returned home with a violent video game she didn’t approve of. “I told them, ‘look, this may be a game, but people act like that.’”
Sound familiar? These two episodes have a twist. Both parents are video game industry insiders. Rechtschaffner is a vice president and executive producer for game publisher giant Electronic Arts. Lord is a producer for game maker Ubisoft's Montreal office.
As the video game industry grows up — in employment age at least — more and more employees are facing the same dilemmas as their non-industry peers in managing what their children are exposed to when they play games.
These parents know a thing or two about video games, however, and their experiences may be helpful to any frazzled parent struggling with game-crazy kids.
Managing the media minefield
The summer of 2005 was not kind to video game fans. There were those hidden sex scenes in “Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas,” frenzied hearings chaired by Sen. Hillary Clinton on video game ratings and more studies on the effects of violent video games.
In the face of this unstoppable Fifth Column, parents have been portrayed as either helpless or, as one study commissioned by a European game industry group found, ignorant to the point of irresponsibility.
Surely there must be some parents who care? I looked for the ones who should know better: the game creators.
“The problem with video games is the name,” explained Rechtschaffner. “The word 'game' implies that it’s just for kids.”
According to the Entertainment Software Association, an industry lobbying firm and data clearinghouse, 55 percent of frequent console game players are over 18. Twenty percent are over 35.
For Rechtschaffner, a producer whose credits include the "SSX" snowboard series and "NBA Street," a more appropriate descriptor for video games when it comes to deciding what his sons can or cannot play is "media."
"I treat games like I treat DVDs," he said.
Game professional and mom Brenda Brathwaite follows the same practice in her home.
"If parents can't imagine setting their kid in front of "Scarface" or anything by Tarantino, then how can they consider "Grand Theft Auto" as an alternative?"
Brathwaite, a game designer for CyberLore studios, knows a thing or two about adult-style gaming. She was game designer for 2004’s M-for-Mature rated “Playboy: The Mansion” video game. And she is the co-founder of a sex in video games Special Interest Group (SIG).
“Having made the Playboy game, I know that the excuse some give that, ‘It’s just a game and completely innocent,’ isn’t true,” she said.
Brathwaite is an outspoken critic of the perceived inability of parents to manage their children's game playing time.
Referencing the uproar over the "Hot Coffee" code modification that allowed owners of the PC version of the "M-for-Mature"-rated “Grand Theft Auto: San Andreas” to access hidden sex scenes, Brathwaite was mystified.
"When Hot Coffee erupted into a big story I was wondering why all the parents were irate," she said. "What are you doing with the game in the first place?"
To guide her decisions, Brathwaite follows the industry ratings system, the Entertainment Software Ratings Board, which embosses letter grades ranging from "E-for-Everyone" to "AO - Adults Only" on off-the-shelf video games.
She also enjoys playing “Katamari Damacy,” an all-ages game, with her five-year-old daughter. Everything else is kept hidden.
"At our house I have a console for my games," she said. “I have my own office. And she knows that when Mommy’s working she can’t come in.”
Tin Guerrero, a creative director for game maker Z-Axis, also keeps his own video gaming time private; he uses his two daughter's nap time to catch up on the latest releases.
Interviewed via e-mail, Guerrero wrote, "I never play any violent games or anything that will leave unwanted indelible images while my girls are around – this includes racing games (car crashes) and shooting games of most kinds.
"I figure that I am, like my neighbor, in that ever-shrinking minority of parents that attempt to understand what media is going into their kids' eyes and ears."
Starting a conversation
Eventually some games have a way of ending up in the living room. But rather than duck their head in the sands or ban the game outright, some game professionals say they attempt to use the controversy to stimulate conversation.
Rechtschaffner remembers when he purchased “Golden Eye: 007,” a popular and critically acclaimed video game based on the exploits of James Bond.
“It was the first first-person-shooter for our family console. And you’re shooting people. We talked about how it was being portrayed as a game and a sport.
“Anytime one of my talks turns into a lecture, [my sons] ignore me automatically," he said. "But it’s nice to get a temperature check on them.”
“Golden Eye: 007” also made an impact in the home of Matthew Ford, a game developer who lives with his wife and 10-year-old son in Australia.
In an e-mail to MSNBC.com, Ford explained the dilemma: “I did not think he was ready for the concept of why it’s sometimes okay to sneak up behind a security guard, in his own country, and shoot him in the back of the head, because he was working for an uncontrolled party in possession of a dangerous weapon.”
Ford, a former lead program manager for the PC online role playing games “Asheron's Call” and “Asheron's Call 2,” described his professional vocation as making games that "explore themes of good and evil, and help people appreciate both the power and fragility of good deeds."
Ford and his son have explored these themes together.
He let his son, then eight, play “Dungeon Keeper,” a PC game where the player acts as an evil dungeon master because, explained Ford, he felt his son had a solid grasp on satire and irony to understand that the dungeon master's deeds were “obviously over the top.”
“As a result we had several very good conversations about what defines evil, why doing evil things can be attractive, and why it can be fun to act out in a game, even though to do that in real life would be wrong.”
“Fable,” the M-for-Mature role-playing game where players can opt between good and evil deeds in a quasi-medieval world triggered discussions that, said Ford, “taught me as much as him.”
“I'm certain that I'd not have had these opportunities to hold his attention on these matters and get him really thinking without these games to provide the glue.”
Parenting first, gamer second
Not all parents can engage in the existential dilemmas posed by a video game. Nor would the majority want to — especially those busy parents who don't know the difference between Nintendo's Mario and “Grand Theft Auto's” Tommy.
Game professionals have an advantage in that they love the medium and that they value the time they spend playing video games with their kids, seeing it as a time to bond, communicate and learn from their children.
At Lord's home in Montreal, video game playing is the main living room activity. “We have a big room with TV and controllers We don’t go into the corners to play,” she said.
Rechtschaffner enjoys playing sports games against his sons. “I’m half ashamed to say that my kids and their friends have been a testing group for me," he said. "It’s always fun to see what they like and they don’t like.”
If there's one thing that all parents interviewed agreed upon, it’s that the time spent video gaming be kept at a minimum.
"It’s not about games, it's about media," said Ubisoft's Lord. “Any time that takes attention away from studying is not allowed.”
Ford makes sure that his son, Dylan, uses a digital kitchen timer to track "screen time." Dylan is allowed one hour for every day in school. He can save up hours, but Ford said Dylan usually runs the timer down to zero every day.
At Rechtschaffner’s house, video games are kept to one hour a day. “There’s so much other stuff I’d like to get to as part of the balance,” he said.
Still, he said, he'd rather have his kids play video games then watch television.
"In a game you’re going through thought processes, problem solving, learning how to compete, to deal with failure ... so many things you do because you are participating.”
Ford agreed.
“I actually welcome them in my son's life as a fun activity, a workout for the mind, a spur to meaningful conversation, a cathartic experience, and a window into his thoughts and feelings.”
“I wouldn't wish for a world without these vexing forms of entertainment.”
MSNBC's Tom Loftus is the father of a 6-month-old daughter. She has yet to figure out the Xbox.
© 2005 MSNBC Interactive



source (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9042384/page/3/)

ICarlson99
09-16-2005, 02:06 PM
My wife and I are going to have a big "debate" about this as our kids grow up. I love video games and would actually enjoy playing with my kids. She thinks they're (essentially) evil and a waste of time.

WeaselInYerFoot
09-16-2005, 02:15 PM
My wife and I are going to have a big "debate" about this as our kids grow up. I love video games and would actually enjoy playing with my kids. She thinks they're (essentially) evil and a waste of time.

That's the problem, is that they're seen as childish activities by most parents and therefore don't bother researching. But I fail to see how an activity that puts you in a situation that requires decision making and value processing (knowing what's right and wrong) as "childish". It's a healthy activity, depending on type of game and the moderate time spent. Much better than saturday morning cartoons, and much much much better than aimless tuesday evening sitcoms.

ICarlson99
09-16-2005, 02:27 PM
To be fair, she only played games like Space Invaders, Asteroids which were mostly mindless (some hand-eye coordination and mental processing at best). I grew up on sports simulations, strategy/puzzle games (i.e. Myst) and some team based games (mostly shoot-em-up games which I do have some reservations about) which are quite a bit different.

The progress in video games does make it a different proposition. I know first hand how guys can bond while playing several season's worth of Tecmo Bowl :D

And comparing video games to being better than watching TV isn't a great selling point. ;)

ObiShawn
09-16-2005, 06:18 PM
Most people I know that dislike video games come from the same older demographic that thinks the music culture was at its absolute best in the 1960's. These people don't accept change very well, if at all and anything they can't understand is considered unnecessary. Cultures change, and that usually as a result of a change [advancement] in technology.

I know a man in his late 40's that refused to let his sons play a multi-player shooter (GoldenEye for the N64) but he had no problem with his kids pelting each other in a massive paint ball game. It's simply ignorance. I know guys that LIVE for hunting and fishing. To them, it is the closest thing to heaven. They'll spend money on guns, the hunting liecense, membership to a hunting club, take off of work for a few weeks, and travel hundreds of miles just to shoot a few deer, but they can't grasp the notion of playing a game. It's an activity just like playing softball or hunting or fishing or even Catch Phrase.

Don't get me wrong, I beleive there should be ratings and restrictions on games and that those things should be enforced, but I'm a moderator at a video game based web site and I see, talk, and deal with kids from ages 13 to adults close to 40. Parents may indeed be ignorant, though I highly doubt that is the case in most situations. These kids know the difference between right and wrong. Besides, these games are not warping the minds of the kids. If anyone has warped the kid's minds, it was the parents (even if and usually inadvertently) long before the kid was old enough to know what a controller was.

Our society is stupid. It's ok for kids to watch shows on MTV like Jackass and it's spin-offs (Viva la Bam or whatever it is), movies like the two Kill Bill's, or teen movies like the American Pie trilogy that make it a point to have gratuitous boob shots, but god forbid that play a game that has some of the same stuff in it, and most of the time it isn't nowhere near as extreme as it is in the movies/shows mentioned. There are a few games like the Grand Theft Auto games, the Playboy Mansion, the Guy Game, and Liesure Suit Larry, but that is a very small percentage compared to all of the other games out there, so to condemn gaming based on just a few games is as stupid as some one avoiding relationships based off of a few bad guys (or girls) they have dated in the past. The generalization is an easy way for people like Clinton to promote their agendas.

Though I am a defender of video game playing, I do believe in moderation. Parents should have enough discipline over their kids so that the kids do spend time outdoors doing other things.

lilmikey
10-24-2005, 11:06 PM
I personally dont have any problems playing violent they dont bother me one bit. Sometimes movies like that do but not games. There are some games I wont play such as Playboy or Resident Evil I do think they are bad but i like military gory games lol

ObiShawn
10-24-2005, 11:37 PM
Resident Evil is actually a great game. I won't spoil anything, just in case you change your mind, but it is a story about a virus outbreak. The Umbrella Corporation (making medicines and such as a front) use their technology to create biological weapons. The virus turns humans (and other animals) into mindless killing machines, meant originally for the military. When a search and rescue team come up missing, your team is sent in and you soon find yourself alone in a huge mansion.

It is actually a puzzle game with a slight horror edge to it. In my opinion, the fist one (Resident Evil, for the GameCube) is the best game as far as plot, scare factor, fun, and challenge.

Don't let the name of the game turn you away. It was actually going to be named "Biohazard," which it is in Japan, but there was already a game in the US called by that name, so they went with Resident Evil. Give it a rent.

prayercloth sis
10-25-2005, 08:37 PM
I am very selective about what I allow my children to put before their eyes, whether it be a movie or DVD, or a video game. as a mother who tries to spend alot of time with her children, I feel responsible for what happens when they are in my care.

The scriptures tell us to be careful what we set before us and allow to come into our minds....thus causing us to relflect upon things that are not wholesome and glorify God. we are to think on things that are pure and lovely...

My children are not innocent to our surroundings, I just feel that playing outside and playing activities that are exercise are just as important as motivating a correct response with videos. Therefore there is an equal balance. We as parents know the maturity level our children are capable of handling. I did allow my teens to watch the Passion of Christ by Mel Gibson, but I have chose to wait to let my 8 year old view this.

I will say that I do try to sheild my children and want to keep them innocent as long as possible, but we do discuss reality in an approprite manner.

You see the neighborhood that we live in has declined vastly in recent years..we are in the midst to meeting the needs of handling prostitution, drugs, gangs and the lists continues.

Though I would not allow my children to view certain things such as this, it happens in front of our house or should I say did, until I took a stand against this...Thank God it is getting better.

But in reality...things like this happen and children are forced to have some knowledge that others do not have to deal with.

Games that promote violence and sex and murder...I have no use for. We get enough of that in everyday life...just turn on the news.

It's not a game.....Life and death are real....some children do not get this information. That's why we have children shootings and anger is kindled within our youth....

what happened to talking things out or agreeing to disagree?

What has violence ever solved? I realize the fact that everywhere we turn, violence is all around us, but children deserve to be children and play tag, and baseball, and hide-and-seek and just be children.

In today's society from the parents to the school system...children are being hurried to grow up!!!!

Dear God save our children and their innocence!

Just one parents viewpoint...pray for our family as we try to serve God and raise our children.

Respectfully and Sincerley

Rhonie

ExtravagantlyLoved
10-26-2005, 12:28 AM
I like playing video games, but I do agree that it needs to be selective. There are some out there that I wouldn't touch with a fifteen foot pole.

rossid
10-26-2005, 10:52 AM
Almost all of our games are rated E. My thirteen year old has a couple of T games but nothing rated M. Tony Hawk's "American Wasteland" is an example of the stuff that bugs me. It is rated T but sounds more like GTA - language, drugs, sex, etc. He could disappoint me but what can I expect from someone who most likely is not a Christian?

prayercloth sis
10-26-2005, 03:17 PM
Any suggestions for some good rated E playstation or nintendo games for ages 9 and also 14 and 15"

WE have alot of the first Mario and Luigi and I can't remember...but would love to hear some good ones...

We have the first nintendo system and first Playstation so I am sure all the games will be old or second hand but would still love to hear some fun clean games if anyone knows of some.

Thanks

Rhonie

WeaselInYerFoot
10-26-2005, 03:58 PM
here's (http://www.ebgames.com/ebx/categories/products/deptpage.asp?web_dept=pla ystation&web_sub_dept=Family) a short list of some childrens games, save for the tv game (like jeopardy) and casino ones. Pipe Dreams and Dragin Tales are recomended.

You can also check out the adventure and puzzle games category. There's stuff like Blues Clues, Tarzan, Rugrats. Most are used so they're pretty cheap.

Dianna Cooper
10-26-2005, 10:12 PM
Any suggestions for some good rated E playstation or nintendo games for ages 9 and also 14 and 15"

WE have alot of the first Mario and Luigi and I can't remember...but would love to hear some good ones...

We have the first nintendo system and first Playstation so I am sure all the games will be old or second hand but would still love to hear some fun clean games if anyone knows of some.

Thanks

Rhonie

Some rated E games that I played once that I think are pretty cool for kids is called Spyro the dragon. There are three of them one is Spyro the dragon another is spyro riptos rage and spyro year of the dragon. This dragon saves the other dragons who was turned into statues in the first game and then the second game he saves a world from someone who want's to take over it. The third one he has to find dragon eggs that a sorcerress stole from the dragon worlds. they are playstation games. Old nitendo gmes will be harder to find since not many stores sell those games.

prayercloth sis
10-27-2005, 03:10 AM
Thanks everyone....

Rhonie

Grank
10-27-2005, 01:03 PM
parayercloth sis - "It's not a game.....Life and death are real....some children do not get this information. That's why we have children shootings and anger is kindled within our youth...."

now are you sure about that...cuz, um... yeah, you're blaming a bunch of deaths on video games... and if thats true then shouldn't we take those off the market. I mean, vioxx killed only a few people and it got yanked from the shelves. I don't think you can blame a video game for somebody's actions. I don't think thats what you meant so could you please clarify? oh yeah, this too...

prayercloth sis - "What has violence ever solved?"

now, i live in a country that where my family and friends can live in relative peace and freedom. We got this by many people fighting and many people dying for it. I have friends that are currently overseas fighting to help others in the same boat we were in in the 1700's. I think violence, although not a good thing, is necessary. It's a tool and has to be used correctly.

labrousse
10-30-2005, 01:40 AM
Oh, goody. Video game topic. I love my games.

My system of choice is the PS2. Superb machine. Perfect controller. The others just don't cut it.

I'll probably be a gamer for life. Means I'll have some fun teaching my kids about what's real and what's fake, why it's ok to do this in the game yet I'll be very upset if I catch them doing it for real...

Someone mentioned games and teen violence. Actually, amid all the stories you hear, violence is down. More publicized, sure, but down. When people were playing games like Asteroids, violence was higher than when we were playing incredibly violent games. I think I like that correlation.

And what has violence solved? I love it when people ask that question. I don't want to disparage peoples' opinions, but we have to realize that sometimes violence is the only answer. A bully picking on a kid won't stop because of a parent-teacher conference; he'll stop because he'll get his butt whipped by a bigger kid. Believe it or not, sometimes violence does solve the problem. If we hadn't acted violently, Hitler would have killed a lot more than 11 million people (only 6 million were Jews).

Aussie3rddayfan
11-04-2005, 07:26 PM
This certainly is an interesting topic isn't it. I think what it comes down to in the end is where you draw the line. There are movies that kids simply should not see and video games kids simply should not be playing. As it has been mentioned, it is the often the adult, not the kid who should be doing the moderating. I think you will often find that the kids who have violent video games like GTA haveparents who simply do not care OR the kids are not kids. They have grown up and do their own thing. Unfortunately we live in a culture that craves personal entertainment. Kids and adults who play video games must play in moderation, many play several hours a day. There is a plus side though, I am a regular on Xbox live playing Halo2 and I throughly enjoy having a laugh with my mates getting whallopped by people who literally play for several hours a day. Its fun. I have made good friends on the other side of the world by doing so. Again you often find some less than nice people. Giving people a mike to communicate is often a bad thing. Some people are ruder than I had ever thought possible which includeds some young kids.

In the end though it comes down to honouring God with HIS time, your decisions HIS money, because he has given them all to us to use for HIS glory. If something is causing a problem then we should be thinking seriously about our priorities.

Grace be with you.

-Colin-