The EU The Last Babylon in Scripture?

[Greg]

Could the EU (European Union) be the last great empire, Babylon found in prophecy in scripture? It's a theory among many Christians today.

Check this site out:
http://www.contenderministries.o rg/prophecy/romanempire.php

Check out the EU's own website:
http://europa.eu.int/index_en.htm

The symbol below they've adopted

Check out this scripture:
KJV Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

KJV Revelation 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

Note: I don't fully feel the EU is that government of the anti-Christ, it could be, alot believe it is, but I just wanted this discussion to get started. Discussion, but no hateful comments. :) It is okay to disagree. :) Condemning judging statements please go somewhere else. Everyone has a right to there opinion.

[wbthornton]

Babylon, in southern Iraq, is being rebuilt today. Remember that Roman Empire had two legs....and the eastern leg outlasted the western leg.

[Greg]

Babylon might not be the physical Babylon so much as a metaphor for an empire, a group, or something of that nature.

I agree could be. :)

[wbthornton]

However, the physical city of Babylon has not been destroyed as spoken of in the Bible. It simply fell into disuse.

[Greg]

However, the physical city of Babylon has not been destroyed as spoken of in the Bible. It simply fell into disuse.

I heard somewhere, don't know if it's true, though that Saddam Hussein thought he was King Nebuchadnezzar and was trying to rebuild the tower of Babel. Does anyone know anything about this?

[wbthornton]

I heard somewhere, don't know if it's true, though that Saddam Hussein thought he was King Nebuchadnezzar and was trying to rebuild the tower of Babel. Does anyone know anything about this?
Supposedly he believed he was the reincarnated Nebuchadnezzar. He spent a tremendous amount of money (in the billions I believe) rebuilding the city and the palaces.

[Greg]

Supposedly he believed he was the reincarnated Nebuchadnezzar. He spent a tremendous amount of money (in the billions I believe) rebuilding the city and the palaces.

Freaky huh. People can be strange and deceieved. :)

[wbthornton]

I fully expect the actual city of Babylon to play a role in future events.

[Glennjamin]

The symbol below they've adopted

While sceptical about the rising power of Europe as a nation-of-states, isn't that a German phonecard? (and not an official symbol of the EU)

[sirlok]

I have got to admit, it truly is interesting!

[Tattooed_Lefty]

No.

[middletree]

Everyone should listen to wbthornton on this one. As with everything, the Word of God has to be the source of our information. In this case, Isaiah 13 specifically says that Babylon will be destroyed so bad that nobody will so much as pitch a tent there. As of today, this destruction has not happened, so it is still a future event.

Babylon, located in Iraq, just kind of died from lack of interest, but has been in the process of being rebuilt over the past 2 decades. It must be rebuilt and be a mighty city again in order for the verses in Isaiah to be played out. And they will get played out, as God has a 100% fulfillment policy with His prophecies.

[steffen]

Check out this scripture:
KJV Revelation 17:3 So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns.

KJV Revelation 17:7 And the angel said unto me, Wherefore didst thou marvel? I will tell thee the mystery of the woman, and of the beast that carrieth her, which hath the seven heads and ten horns.

I don't see a scarlet colored creature, nor do I see ten horns, seven heads or names of blasphemy.

[Pouye]

I don't see a scarlet colored creature, nor do I see ten horns, seven heads or names of blasphemy.

"This calls for a mind with wisdom. The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings." Revelation 7:9

Isaiah 13 specifically talks about the Day of the Lord. Although Babylon is included, there many countries/empires involved in this Day. Isaiah 13 also mentions the Medes. Although Babylon is the symbolic to a specific city, is also an EMPIRE. The Babylonian empire fell many times throughout history:

Babylon was destroyed in about 1600 BC by invaders from the northwest, the Hittites, but it reestablishes itself a century later under the rule of intruders from the northeast. These are the Kassites, who have been gradually moving into Mesopotamia from the mountainous regions of Iran. They maintain a stable society for three centuries - from the 15th to the 12th.

In the 7th century BC the Assyrians, under Sennacherib, overwhelm the Babylonians. Sennacherib completely destroyed the ancient city of Babylon in 689.

In 625 Nabopolassar, a Chaldean, establishes a new dynasty in Babylon. Nabopolassar attacks Assyria, allying himself with the Medes - eastern neighbours of Assyria. In 612 Nineveh is captured and destroyed after a three-month siege. This brings to an abrupt end the story of Assyria. It was absorbed, eventually, in the Persian empire.

The most famous Babylonian dynasty is that of Nebuchadnezzar: 7th - 6th century BC. The Medes are content with the regions to the north and east, so this final Babylonian dynasty becomes the controlling power of the whole of Mesopotamia. Nabopolassar is succeeded by his son Nebuchadnezzar in 605.

Nebuchadnezzar, in a reign of more than forty years, gives Babylon its period of greatest fame. He is prominent in the Bible as the ruler who destroys Jerusalem and carries off the Jews into their Babylonian captivity. And he features in the list of the Seven Wonders of the World, as the creator of the hanging gardens of Babylon.


The successors of Nebuchadnezzar on the throne of Babylon are less effective. They have the misfortune to be close neighbours of the greatest empire-builder to have emerged by this stage in history.

Cyrus the Great ruled in Persia from 550. Not until 540 does he turn his attention to Babylon. In October 539 his general enters the city unopposed. Many in Babylon (including the captive Jews) welcome the Persians as liberators, and Cyrus ensures that local religious customs are observed. But mighty Mesopotamia becomes a Persian province.

Babylon's final claim to fame is an accidental one. Alexander the Great dies here, in 323 BC, after a banquet. The city's end directly relates to the Greek conquest of this region. In 312 BC Seleucus founds a new Mesopotamian capital city, Seleucia, further to the north and on the Tigris rather than the Euphrates. Much of the building material is brought from Babylon, which becomes a forgotten city until excavated in the 20th century. But at all times there has been an important city in this region where the two great rivers come closest together. Seleucia is followed, in it turn, by Ctesiphon on the opposite bank of the Tigris. And from the early days of Islam this has been the site, a few miles further up the Tigris, of Baghdad.

Just providing some background for this study,

Rock

[middletree]

Babylon was destroyed in about 1600 BC by invaders from the northwest, the Hittites, but it reestablishes itself a century later under the rule of intruders from the northeast.

But that's my point. Isaiah's prophecy can't have come true yet, because total destruction, where nobody will ever pitch a tent there again, has not occurred.

[wbthornton]

But that's my point. Isaiah's prophecy can't have come true yet, because total destruction, where nobody will ever pitch a tent there again, has not occurred.
Babylon basically fell into dis-use. Saddam was busy re-building the city until he was found in some spider hole.

[Pouye]

I believe that it is much more likely that an Arab group like the UAE (established on 2 December 1971) will play a direct role in the end times regarding Israel than the EU (who might provide support). the UAE is a union of seven sovereign sheikdoms: Abu dhabi, Dubai, Sharjah, Ajman, Umm al-Qaiwain, Ras al-Khaimah and Fujairah.

The Arab world is made up of 22 (or 23, depending on how you categorize) countries.

The Arab world is very powerful economically, bringing in over 1 trillion US dollars annually. It stretches across more than eleven million square kilometers (four million square miles) of North Africa and the part of western Asia called the Middle East (the Arabian Peninsula or simply Arabia).

Just to give you an idea of the size of the Arab world, it is the size of the entire Spanish-speaking Western Hemisphere (also 11 million square kilometers), larger than Canada (10 million), China (9.6 million), the United States (also 9.6 million), Brazil (8.7 million), or Europe excluding Russia (5.6 million). Only Russia is larger, at seventeen million square kilometers.

To show it's power, the Arab world is in the process of building the tallest building in the world in Dubai. It will be 800 meters tall, and dwarf anything the USA has ever built.

Let's remember that it is the modern Arab world that is superimposed over the ancient Babylonian empire.

Many in the Arab world, in general, have a deep hatred for Jews (and the nation Israel), calling it the "Little Satan". Many also hate the USA, calling it "The Big Satan". The Bible is clear that the Day of the Lord will comprise many nations, most of them nations that are surrounding Israel.

Many people think of the Arab world as weak and backwards. However, the Arab world is quickly gaining status as a world power. For instance, Cairo is a city of over 15 million people. That's bigger than the largest city in the USA.
[EDIT: I made a mistake here: This estimate includes urban area populations. I didn't realize this, so I looked up Cairo's actual city population. It is said to be around 7 million, but all of the statistics seem to be outdated, so it is probably closer to 8 million.]

The League of Arab States is a group dedicated to promote and strengthen the Arab world. These are the member "states" according to them:

>> Member States

• The Hashemite Kingdom Of Jordan

• United Arab Emirates

• Kingdom Of Bahrain

• Republic Of Tunisia

• Democratic And Popular Republic Of Algeria

• Republic Of Djibouti

• Kingdom Of Saudi Arabia

• Rebuplic Of Sudan

• Arab Rebuplic Of Syria

• Republic Of Somalia

• Republic Of Iraq

• Sultanate Of Oman

• State Of Palestine

• State Of Qatar

• Federal Islamic Republic Of Comoros

• State Of Kuwait

• Republic Of Lebanon

• Socialist People's Libyan Arab Jamahiriya

• Arab Republic Of Egypt

• Kingdom Of Morocco

• Islamic Republic Of Mauritania

• Republic Of Yemen

Arab League of Nations Official Website (http://www.arableagueonline.org/arableague/index_en.jsp)

Read what they desire to do with Jerusalem (the city they call, Al-Quds).

Scripturally, both the revived Roman Empire (EU) and the revived Babylonian Empire (Arab league) will play a vital role in the battle of Armageddon. I think the EU will give arms and support to the Arab world when they finally get down to attacking Israel all out.

Rock

[Pouye]

But that's my point. Isaiah's prophecy can't have come true yet, because total destruction, where nobody will ever pitch a tent there again, has not occurred.

I agree.

[wbthornton]

Rock, I find it very interesting to research the histories of the peoples listed in the Bible. Peoples like Put and Cush, don't get much attention from most commentaters, but they seem to be significant players in the end times. I believe that Put is generally considered to be the natives of North Africa, the Berbers.

[Nilknarf]

I agree that many in power within the EU are anti-semitic. However it was interesting to see that Britain, France, Italy and Germany all spoke out against Iran's recent renewed call for Israel to be wiped out. Of course, Only Tony Blair came close to calling for the expulsion of Iran from the EU. And I doubt that any of the rest would ever do ANYTHING of substance to stand up for Israel... I have no doubt that France especially would not mind Israel dissapearing, especially if there was money to made. and of course they have a 5 day riot going on right now in many of their Muslim centers of population...

[Pouye]

I agree that many in power within the EU are anti-semitic. However it was interesting to see that Britain, France, Italy and Germany all spoke out against Iran's recent renewed call for Israel to be wiped out. Of course, Only Tony Blair came close to calling for the expulsion of Iran from the EU. And I doubt that any of the rest would ever do ANYTHING of substance to stand up for Israel... I have no doubt that France especially would not mind Israel dissapearing, especially if there was money to made. and of course they have a 5 day riot going on right now in many of their Muslim centers of population...

I think all it would take for the table to turn on Israel is for Israeli's to decide they want the Temple site taken from the Wakf Muslims and transfered to Jewish control. I'll bet even the USA and the EU would not support such a move.

Food for thought at just what might trigger the beginning of what leads to the end,

Rock

[EYESHIGHER]

I reckon its America!

[WeaselInYerFoot]

Could the EU (European Union) be the last great empire, Babylon found in prophecy in scripture? It's a theory among many Christians today.


LOL!

That is all.

[steffen]

I don't see a scarlet colored creature, nor do I see ten horns, seven heads or names of blasphemy.
Let me specify this comment... it was directed at the woman sitting on a bull. I think it's somewhat a stretch to call it a scarlet-colored, seven headed beast with ten horns :).

Interesting discussion, though. Especially as I live in EU. :(

[oohmercyme]

Did someone forget to mention the part were the US is the new earth? Or is that assumed?

I hate for this to be my first post...but have mercy!

[middletree]

Did someone forget to mention the part were the US is the new earth?

I hope you're joking.

[oohmercyme]

Only if the rest of this thread is a joke.

[middletree]

Only if the rest of this thread is a joke.
Ok, just checking.

[sppartacus]

The U.S. is the last Babylon in scripture.


---I have 2 POSTS now? oh, great--- :o

[middletree]

The U.S. is the last Babylon in scripture.


Well, thanks for your thoughtful response and for backing it up with Scripture. Guess we can all go home now.

[Howlin' Wolf]

Well, thanks for your thoughtful response and for backing it up with Scripture. Guess we can all go home now.
do quotes from John Hagee or Tim Lahaye count since i can find no scripture whatsoever to support any dispensational pre-mill view?

[middletree]

do quotes from John Hagee or Tim Lahaye count since i can find no scripture whatsoever to support any dispensational pre-mill view?
Um, no. Especially Lahaye.

But thanks for playing!

[Howlin' Wolf]

Um, no. Especially Lahaye.

But thanks for playing!

i thought evangelicalism adopted both men as apostles, therefore making their words scripture?

because if they didnt, they surely have blindly adopted their views as the way things are gonna be

[middletree]

i thought evangelicalism adopted both men as apostles, therefore making their words scripture?

because if they didnt, they surely have blindly adopted their views as the way things are gonna be
I have been an evangelical all my life, and in my current church for over a decade, and I know of nobody who is in tune with either of the men you mention. I'm not doubting that some do, of course. In fact, my father in law, who isn't part of my church, watches Hagee on TV. But he's 84, and in very frail health, and I respect him enough to let him live out his last days as he chooses. A lifetime of service to God has bought him that.

[Howlin' Wolf]

I have been an evangelical all my life, and in my current church for over a decade, and I know of nobody who is in tune with either of the men you mention. I'm not doubting that some do, of course. In fact, my father in law, who isn't part of my church, watches Hagee on TV. But he's 84, and in very frail health, and I respect him enough to let him live out his last days as he chooses. A lifetime of service to God has bought him that.
evangelicalism has a different definition of what the average joe church member thinks