President Obama Receives Nobel Prize

[HumanityisSaved]

President Obama received the Nobel Peace Prize on Friday.

[Musicdude]

Every president that I can remember has worked to disarm the nukes in the middle-east. None of them got a peace-prize.

[middletree]

My understanding is that even he was surprised when it was announced.

[Jesuslove]

My understanding is that even he was surprised when it was announced.

I heard he was surprised as well.

I beleive he did deserve it. This administration has sent a message to the world that we will sit and talk, instead of dictate policy. I persnally feel blessed we have such a compassionate, thoughtful and open man running our country.

[DareDevil]

I do not hate Obama or so, but I do not think that he deserves the price just yet. Giving him the price NOW devaluates it, imho.

[Evanescence]

I dont see a reson why he desrves it...but maybe they will give a reason..

[Musicdude]

I do not hate Obama or so, but I do not think that he deserves the price just yet. Giving him the price NOW devaluates it, imho.

I agree. There is nothing he could've done in 6 months to earn that prize.
But it was devalued long before Obama.

[Jesuslove]

I agree. There is nothing he could've done in 6 months to earn that prize.
But it was devalued long before Obama.

He opened the door to discuss issues on a global issue.. He's extended an olive branch to our enemies. Very Christlike to me. Nothing our last President would have considered.

[HumanityisSaved]

He opened the door to discuss issues on a global issue.. He's extended an olive branch to our enemies. Very Christlike to me. Nothing our last President would have considered.

He's accomplished NOTHING! He's the laughing stock of France for believing that Iran can be "talked" out of Nuking up. He's printed TRILLIONS of dollars out of thin air. He's quadrupled the Nat. Debt in just 9 months and the economy has gotten worse under him instead of better. He's made no friends in Israel, he's made none in Palestine. He says he's open to letting the Taliban participate in the new Afghan govt. A Nobel Peace Prize? Seriously because he gave you a tingle up your leg?

It's not Christ-like to say "Be ye warm and filled" and then do nothing. This man has done nothing! Except however he did allow, by executive order, that international abortions be funded with my tax dollars. If that's something then okay.

Oh, and he did nationalize banking and loans, the auto industry, and gave control of GM and Chrysler to his union cronies.

Oh and he did appoint a bunch of czars that are outright kooks especially this latest guy that is the "Safe School Czar" who actually encouraged an underage boy to continue in a gay affair with an older man. (and he did this while working in a school and at school)

Obama is a big honking disgrace even more so than bush!

Seriously name on thing he's actually done! If I were Desmond Tutu or someone that actually earned a Nobel Prize I'd be offended at the cheapening and denegration of the award given to a man (who may yet actually do something to earn one) who has yet to do one single thing.

Clearly the Nobel committee has lost it's integrity- I mean for crying out loud they did give Gore one for lying about global warming in his disinformative movie on climate change.

Nobel prize no longer means anything to me.

[HumanityisSaved]

Can you imagine giving the Lombardy Trophy to someone who just "Talked a good game"? Don't you have to actually accomplish something first?

I dunno maybe it's just me but if Obama doesn't want to look like an idiot child he'll turn it down.

[HumanityisSaved]

He accepted it.... as a "call to action" what a poser this guy is more arrogant and meglomeniacal than anyone I've ever seen.

[WeaselInYerFoot]

In before Antichrist claims!

But seriously, I have no clue why he was given the Nobel Peace Prize. He pales in comparison to every single previous winner. And don't mean this in a mean way, but if you put him side-by-side with each winner, each of them has a tangible result (if not many) for their attempts and life work. Obama doesn't. Olive branches alone never won anyone else a Nobel Peace Prize.

Perhaps it was simply a bad year?

[mac_mcdoodle]

*COUGH* Anti-Christ *COUGH*

[HumanityisSaved]

Yeah for real Reagan won the Cold War with hardly a shot fired, was responsible for the Berlin wall coming down, and got our Marines out of Lebenon and no Peace Prize for him.


NOBEL PRIZE: Conservative Anti-Statists need not apply!

[Musicdude]

He opened the door to discuss issues on a global issue.. He's extended an olive branch to our enemies. Very Christlike to me. Nothing our last President would have considered.

Well I never said GWB deserved a peace prize either, did I?

But as SOP for libs, anytime Obama is attacked, you counter-attack GWB as if somehow proving GWB was the worst president in the history of our nation and even satan's right-hand man, proves that Obama is Jesus Christ reincarnate. It doesn't.

[HumanityisSaved]

Well I never said GWB deserved a peace prize either, did I?

But as SOP for libs, anytime Obama is attacked, you counter-attack GWB as if somehow proving GWB was the worst president in the history of our nation and even satan's right-hand man, proves that Obama is Jesus Christ reincarnate. It doesn't.

Just a picky point here on the boldened bit: Jesus will never be reincarnate. But you are indeed correct that is the libby arguement to defend nObama: trash bush- however they forget that bush was not a conservative.

[Musicdude]

Just a picky point here on the boldened bit: Jesus will never be reincarnate. But you are indeed correct that is the libby arguement to defend nObama: trash bush- however they forget that bush was not a conservative.

I know. I was being sarcastic. ;)


When He comes back, it will be in all His Godly glory, and no one will be able to mistake Him for anyone else.

[Musicdude]

I wonder who the second person who voted for the "Gave the world hope for a better future" was. Obviously Jesuslove was the first one.

[Jesuslove]

Well I never said GWB deserved a peace prize either, did I?

But as SOP for libs, anytime Obama is attacked, you counter-attack GWB as if somehow proving GWB was the worst president in the history of our nation and even satan's right-hand man, proves that Obama is Jesus Christ reincarnate. It doesn't.

Sounds like you are just bitter. Surely GWB didn't deserve it cause he started a war, which is counter to the notion of a "peace prize". Obama started off telling the world that the US is open for dialogue. Again, he extended the olive branch to nations that have historically been our enemies. Whether you agree with his policies or not, that action alone was Christlike.

[Jesuslove]

He's accomplished NOTHING! He's the laughing stock of France for believing that Iran can be "talked" out of Nuking up. He's printed TRILLIONS of dollars out of thin air. He's quadrupled the Nat. Debt in just 9 months and the economy has gotten worse under him instead of better. He's made no friends in Israel, he's made none in Palestine. He says he's open to letting the Taliban participate in the new Afghan govt. A Nobel Peace Prize? Seriously because he gave you a tingle up your leg?

It's not Christ-like to say "Be ye warm and filled" and then do nothing. This man has done nothing! Except however he did allow, by executive order, that international abortions be funded with my tax dollars. If that's something then okay.
Why are you so bitter? Gheesh, you might think you hate America. I find your rant to be anti-American, unpatriotic and unChristlike.

It is Christlike to make peace, and in a change from the previous administration, Obama has tried to find ways to make peace and solve problems instead of creating wars.

Oh, and he did nationalize banking and loans, the auto industry, and gave control of GM and Chrysler to his union cronies.
Didn't this all begin under GWB? Didn't his administration authorize loans to both banks and the auto industry? And what does that have to do with the peace prize? Seriously? This thread is about the peace prize.

[HumanityisSaved]

Why are you so bitter? Gheesh, you might think you hate America. I find your rant to be anti-American, unpatriotic and unChristlike.
That sir simply and plainly betrays you misunderstanding of patriotism. Obama is (as did bush) trashing the US Constitution HE IS ANTI-AMERICAN! Get off the kool aid dude.


Didn't this all begin under GWB? Didn't his administration authorize loans to both banks and the auto industry? And what does that have to do with the peace prize? Seriously? This thread is about the peace prize. Again READ!!! GWB is not a conservative! The bailout LOANS were made at the end of his term but he did not fire any CEOs and he did not snatch privately owned companies from their investors TRILLIONS of dollars and break a promise of transpearancy by not telling us where the money went. GWB was the worst president we'd had in a long time until....


WAKE UP JL WAKE UP OBAMA IS TAKING MORE OF YOUR FREEDOMS THAN BUSH EVER THOUGHT ABOUT! Bashing bush will not ease the discomfort of your chains when unchecked hyperbolic devotion to Obama enslaves you to a bloated and marxist government.

[Musicdude]

Sounds like you are just bitter. Surely GWB didn't deserve it cause he started a war, which is counter to the notion of a "peace prize". Obama started off telling the world that the US is open for dialogue. Again, he extended the olive branch to nations that have historically been our enemies. Whether you agree with his policies or not, that action alone was Christlike.

I say it was for show, and didn't accomplish anything. If His motives are not "Christlike" then his actions are irrelevant. Besides, I doubt Jesus Christ would've earned a Nobel Peace Prize if He he was born in the last hundred years anyway.

Oh and thanks for proving my point again, by bringing up GWB once again.
I already said I don't think GWB deserved a prize, so why was it necessary for you to say it again?

[HumanityisSaved]

I know. I was being sarcastic. ;)


When He comes back, it will be in all His Godly glory, and no one will be able to mistake Him for anyone else.

yes, I meant to point out that Incarnation began at His first coming and does not end... He is incarnate even now.

[Jesuslove]

That sir simply and plainly betrays you misunderstanding of patriotism. Obama is (as did bush) trashing the US Constitution HE IS ANTI-AMERICAN! Get off the kool aid dude.


Again READ!!! GWB is not a conservative! The bailout LOANS were made at the end of his term but he did not fire any CEOs and he did not snatch privately owned companies from their investors TRILLIONS of dollars and break a promise of transpearancy by not telling us where the money went. GWB was the worst president we'd had in a long time until....


WAKE UP JL WAKE UP OBAMA IS TAKING MORE OF YOUR FREEDOMS THAN BUSH EVER THOUGHT ABOUT! Bashing bush will not ease the discomfort of your chains when unchecked hyperbolic devotion to Obama enslaves you to a bloated and marxist government.

No need to write in CAPS or rant about other scare tactics. When the right wingers lose power, they resort to fear mongering. A panel of people from around the world selected Obama to win the prize. We should be proud, as Americans, that our President won this worldwide honor. I beleive he's the first president to do it. God bless Obama!!

[Musicdude]

yes, I meant to point out that Incarnation began at His first coming and does not end... He is incarnate even now.

When I said incarnate, I mean in the flesh. He doesn't have human flesh anymore. He is eternal, so applying "incarnate" as "living" really doesn't make sense. In that sense of the word, He was never incarnated, because He has always lived. But I do get your point, and am only arguing because I like to argue. :D

[Jesuslove]

I say it was for show, and didn't accomplish anything. If His motives are not "Christlike" then his actions are irrelevant. Besides, I doubt Jesus Christ would've earned a Nobel Peace Prize if He he was born in the last hundred years anyway.

Oh and thanks for proving my point again, by bringing up GWB once again.
I already said I don't think GWB deserved a prize, so why was it necessary for you to say it again?

I think Christ would win the Nobel Peace Prize if on Earth. He was all about peace. So is Obama.

[Musicdude]

I think Christ would win the Nobel Peace Prize if on Earth. He was all about peace. So is Obama.

He was not all about peace. He was mostly about salvation. But most people then hated Him, so I imagine they would today too (especially the religious folk), and if so He probably wouldn't earn any Nobel Peace Prize.

[Valpo]

He pales in comparison to every single previous winner.

Arafat won the award one year...

[Musicdude]

Arafat won the award one year...

At least he's in good company then.

[Grank]

there is a time for peace, there is a time for war... don't bash bush just cuz he went to war.

imo, obama doesn't deserve didley... last i checked there hasn't been peace anywhere new since he's been in office...

[RevZeek]

Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, & Jimmy Carter are all also recipients of the Nobel Peace Prize. Both Roosevelt and Wilson received the prize while in office.

[HumanityisSaved]

Theodore Roosevelt, Woodrow Wilson, & Jimmy Carter are all also recipients of the Nobel Peace Prize. Both Roosevelt and Wilson received the prize while in office.

And THEY actually did something to win it. I am not proud as an American that our president got the award I am embarassed as an American that our president has done nothing to merit the Nobel Peace Prize (he hasn't even closed gitmo like he promised us on day 1).

Imagine your kid failing miserably at a school talent show but being the most popular kid in the class and based on that popularity he was pronounced the winner. You'd need to explain to her that it was wrong for her to win because she did nothing to win except be popular.

[Jason]

Full list of Nobel Peace Prize laureates:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nobel_Peace_Prize _laureates

[mcgreen311]

I wonder if it might pacify (heh heh) everyone if we talked about this in terms of results rather than actions. Obama has taken some steps, but none of those have born concrete results yet.

[Teresa79]

I wonder who the second person who voted for the "Gave the world hope for a better future" was. Obviously Jesuslove was the first one.


I did.

[HumanityisSaved]

Announcement came today that the Pittsburgh Steelers have been awarded the Lombardi Trophy for Superbowl XLIV. Although the season is not over and the Steelers are a mere 2-2 on the regular season they have talked a good game and given fans around the world "hope for a better future."

Congratulations Pittsburgh fans! It looks like the mighty Steelers have completed the "Stairway to Seven"

[Evanescence]

You dont need to do anything....you need to work at it or have intent....even talking about it shows effort,...

[Jason]

I think Christ would win the Nobel Peace Prize if on Earth. He was all about peace. So is Obama.

Jesus: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

[onesawthelight]

Jesuslove wrote...

I think Christ would win the Nobel Peace Prize if on Earth. He was all about peace. So is Obama.

Jason wrote...

Jesus: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

It won't be all about peace when Jesus comes back.

[HumanityisSaved]

I hope it goes out on the net but Saturday Night Live put a pickle fork in Obama over this Nobel Prize thing in their Weekend Update Segment.

[Jesuslove]

Jesus: "Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword." (Matthew 10:34)

OK.. then lets cannonize GWB for starting the Iraq War. Makes sense huh?

[Evanescence]

yeh....lol....lets do both....

or..

lets lie for both...

[R. Smith]

I have nothing against America...everytime I have been there I was treated well. But, I don't think President Obama should have gotten the Nobel Peace Prize.

[middletree]

OK.. then lets cannonize GWB for starting the Iraq War. Makes sense huh?

No need to slam Jason for quoting Jesus. You should take it up with Jesus why he said something which conflicts with your earlier incorrect statement about Him.

[Musicdude]

You dont need to do anything....you need to work at it or have intent....even talking about it shows effort,...

Peace is good. I like peace.

Where's my prize?

[Musicdude]

OK.. then lets cannonize GWB for starting the Iraq War. Makes sense huh?

You are the one who brought up GWB. No one else was even talking about him. This thread is about Barack Hussein Obama, our current president.

[Evanescence]

Good point. Make sure you let everyone know his real name-- with the Hussein part. Dont want anyone to not know he's really a nasty, evil muslim...:P

[Musicdude]

Good point. Make sure you let everyone know his real name-- with the Hussein part. Dont want anyone to not know he's really a nasty, evil muslim...:P

I wasn't going there, but ok.

If his middle name offends you, you should get some tolerance training. ;)

A good friend of mine in high school was name Amy Hussein.
Making a big deal over names is silly. If his name was Barack Hitler, I wouldn't care as long as he's a good president.

[mcgreen311]

Re: usage of the middle name

The reason this raises eyebrows is that most presidents are not referred to using their middle names. Sure, W. is, but that is to differentiate him from his father. Initially, those who highlighted the "Hussein" part of Obama's name were doing so in an effort to discredit him because he was a "secret Muslim."

Making a comment about the usage of the middle name does not necessarily mean anyone is ashamed of it. However, you have to be aware of the baggage that comes along with it...metalanguage and all. Your use might not be derogatory, but be prepared to defend it.

[Musicdude]

Re: usage of the middle name

The reason this raises eyebrows is that most presidents are not referred to using their middle names. Sure, W. is, but that is to differentiate him from his father. Initially, those who highlighted the "Hussein" part of Obama's name were doing so in an effort to discredit him because he was a "secret Muslim."

Making a comment about the usage of the middle name does not necessarily mean anyone is ashamed of it. However, you have to be aware of the baggage that comes along with it...metalanguage and all. Your use might not be derogatory, but be prepared to defend it.

What about John F. Kennedy?
Lyndon Baines Johnson?

It's really not that uncommon to refer to a president using their middle name or at least the initial.

I refer to my daughter using her middle name all the time, and I don't hate her. lol


I get what you're saying, but to me the ones who automatically go there are the ones with the issues, not the other way around.

Do I have something against Muslims in general? No.
I think they need Jesus Christ or they are going to hell. So I would pray for them, and if the opportunity presented it'self I would evangelize them. And I have before. But it would be done out of love, not hate.

[Jason]

OK.. then lets cannonize GWB for starting the Iraq War. Makes sense huh?

I didn't say anything about GWB.

You said Jesus was all about peace. I quoted Jesus to show the fallacy of that statement.

[Jason]

What about John F. Kennedy?
Lyndon Baines Johnson?

It's really not that uncommon to refer to a president using their middle name or at least the initial.


Also John Quincy Adams.

[mcgreen311]

What about John F. Kennedy?
Lyndon Baines Johnson?

It's really not that uncommon to refer to a president using their middle name or at least the initial.


And I'll add to the list, but not exclusively: William Henry Harrison, James K. Polk, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower.

But you got my drift. How many people went around saying "William J. Clinton" instead of Bill Clinton?

I refer to my daughter using her middle name all the time, and I don't hate her. lol

Yeah, but is that when she has gotten into trouble? :)

I get what you're saying, but to me the ones who automatically go there are the ones with the issues, not the other way around.

Do I have something against Muslims in general? No.
I think they need Jesus Christ or they are going to hell. So I would pray for them, and if the opportunity presented it'self I would evangelize them. And I have before. But it would be done out of love, not hate.

I'm not saying you can't use his middle name, but why did you put the whole thing? It's surely a lot more to type. Considering how it has been used by the likes of Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin, I'm sure you can see how it can color your entire statement in a certain way, especially if you are a conservative/republican ( I gather that you are, but I will not assume).

Also John Quincy Adams.

To be fair, there is a "John Adams" and a "John Quincy Adams."

[danbos]

Also John Quincy Adams.

Technically, that's more like the George W Bush example, since his father was also president, and that's why the middle name was used.

[Jason]

I never understood the Hussein tactic anyway. Like Obama doesn't sound Muslim enough?
-Jason Randall Mitchener

[VerbumReale]

don't bash bush just cuz he went to war.
.

Telling JL not to Bush bash is like telling some of us not to breathe.

[VerbumReale]

OK JL if you seriously think he deserves it after less than a year in office than you have lost whatever shred of credibility there might have been to your claims at being a "moderate." C'mon seriously even SNL is taking shots at this. I don't rule out the possibility that he may earn it someday but c'mon no president should be given this award within their first year. It's a joke.

And to Humanity is Saved, I would have voted in your poll but you actually left out the real reason why he won it and that is of course "Not being George W. Bush."

[VerbumReale]

I hereby award this Nobel Peace Prize for awesomness to anyone who posts on this thread, (unless George W Bush happens to post on here). Because, after all, not being George W Bush makes everyone of you just as deserving as our current president.

[rossid]

I cannot stay quiet any longer.

No, really, not much suspense here.

But William Jefferson Carter, James Earl Carter, these names were used, but after their presidency.

What do I know, just like BHO, I wasn't born in the US. :D

But his "tone"? That is the first thing someone being interviewed by Matt Lauer on NBC said. His stupid "tone"? Is someone really taking this as a serious award?

He has "not been George Bush" for almost ten months and getting pretty good at it. :cool:


Actually this is more like the award SpongeBob got in one episode: "For Outstanding Achievement in Achievement". It means nothing.

The PowerBall award to BHO on SNL was good too. :)

[Evanescence]

I think he's done some good for peace...just not enough for the Peace prize...

Verb, its easy to bash Bush...there's 8 yrs and 1.2+ million Iraq deaths, 40,000 mamed Americans and countless dead troops as reasons....

[VerbumReale]

IVerb, its easy to bash Bush...there's 8 yrs and 1.2+ million Iraq deaths, 40,000 mamed Americans and countless dead troops as reasons....


I wasn't the one who said don't Bush bash. I was just pointing out to the person who did, that for JL Bush bashing is like the very air that he breathes. Although I would say there is a sort of "What's the point" element to Bush bashing since we are now on Obama's watch.

[Jesuslove]

No need to slam Jason for quoting Jesus. You should take it up with Jesus why he said something which conflicts with your earlier incorrect statement about Him.

Slam Jason? Hmmmm. I know Jesus and I know He is about love and peace, not war.

[Jesuslove]

Telling JL not to Bush bash is like telling some of us not to breathe.

and pestendling like you are not a pastor slamming people is like totally dysfunctional.

[Jesuslove]

I never understood the Hussein tactic anyway. Like Obama doesn't sound Muslim enough?
-Jason Randall Mitchener

Seriously Jason. Who cares?? Really? Even if he is Muslim. Who cares? He's Americas President, that's all that matters to me.

[Jesuslove]

[QUOTE=VerbumReale;1903487]OK JL if you seriously think he deserves it after less than a year in office than you have lost whatever shred of credibility there might have been to your claims at being a "moderate." C'mon seriously even SNL is taking shots at this. I don't rule out the possibility that he may earn it someday but c'mon no president should be given this award within their first year. It's a joke.
[QUOTE]

Pastor, you are just funny!! I gotta say... Seriously, do you hate Obama that much? Seriously? The President of the US won the Nobel Peace Prize, a great honor, and you want to discredit him? That's not Christian. That's anti-American.

[Jesuslove]

I wasn't the one who said don't Bush bash. I was just pointing out to the person who did, that for JL Bush bashing is like the very air that he breathes. Although I would say there is a sort of "What's the point" element to Bush bashing since we are now on Obama's watch.

Pastor, your comments come across as both anti-American and anti-Christian.

....they will know we are Christians by our LOVE.

[Jason]

Seriously Jason. Who cares?? Really? Even if he is Muslim. Who cares? He's Americas President, that's all that matters to me.

Did I say I care?

[middletree]

I know Jesus and I know He is about love and peace, not war.

You are loving one side of Jesus, the side that fits best with your personal philosophy.

[onesawthelight]

Slam Jason? Hmmmm. I know Jesus and I know He is about love and peace, not war.


Ok....please explain this to me....

Revelation 19:11-21

11I saw heaven standing open and there before me was a white horse, whose rider is called Faithful and True. With justice he judges and makes war. 12His eyes are like blazing fire, and on his head are many crowns. He has a name written on him that no one knows but he himself. 13He is dressed in a robe dipped in blood, and his name is the Word of God. 14The armies of heaven were following him, riding on white horses and dressed in fine linen, white and clean. 15Out of his mouth comes a sharp sword with which to strike down the nations. "He will rule them with an iron scepter."[a] He treads the winepress of the fury of the wrath of God Almighty. 16On his robe and on his thigh he has this name written:
KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

17And I saw an angel standing in the sun, who cried in a loud voice to all the birds flying in midair, "Come, gather together for the great supper of God, 18so that you may eat the flesh of kings, generals, and mighty men, of horses and their riders, and the flesh of all people, free and slave, small and great."

19Then I saw the beast and the kings of the earth and their armies gathered together to make war against the rider on the horse and his army. 20But the beast was captured, and with him the false prophet who had performed the miraculous signs on his behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped his image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. 21The rest of them were killed with the sword that came out of the mouth of the rider on the horse, and all the birds gorged themselves on their flesh

[VerbumReale]

[QUOTE=VerbumReale;1903487]OK JL if you seriously think he deserves it after less than a year in office than you have lost whatever shred of credibility there might have been to your claims at being a "moderate." C'mon seriously even SNL is taking shots at this. I don't rule out the possibility that he may earn it someday but c'mon no president should be given this award within their first year. It's a joke.
[QUOTE]

Pastor, you are just funny!! I gotta say... Seriously, do you hate Obama that much? Seriously? The President of the US won the Nobel Peace Prize, a great honor, and you want to discredit him? That's not Christian. That's anti-American.


Telll me JL why is it that I am the only one who you accuse of behaving in an anti-Christian manner??? Why is it that I am the only one you accuse of being hateful??? Might it be because you love calling my vocational credibility into question?? You relish the opportunity to bear false witness against me. That is unChristian!!!I know you have been warned about this. Unbelievable!!

I said nothing that even comes close to resembling hate. I said that I don't believe he deserved it this early. That is harldy un-Christian. It is called having an opinion. We're allowed to do that, and doing so does not make one un-Christian. If my simply calling this into question warrants being called un-Christian then my goodness let's dig up some of the remarks you said about W when he was in office. And I fully acknowledged it was possible that he may earn it later, but I just don't believe he has earned it yet. It amazes me that I cannot say anything on here without you trying to slanderize me.

If you're talking about my remarks about your penchant for Bush-bashing, they were clealry meant as jokes, but if they offended you I apologize. However I am very offended at the fact that the only time you refer to me as pastor is when you try to slander me. I have asked you repeatedly to simply not call me that, and yet you continue to ignore those pleas. Some might call that un-Christian. I am not saying I would, but some might.


You are unbelivable!!! Frankly, if there is anyone else whom you treat nearly as disrepspectfully as you treat me, I have to say it surprises me you have not been banned yet.

[mcgreen311]

Seriously Jason. Who cares?? Really? Even if he is Muslim. Who cares? He's Americas President, that's all that matters to me.

Well, I took that as an analogy based on extreme right wing conservative blather rather than a personal slam. It fit in with my line of questioning in any case. I don't think he was espousing personal opinion.

[Musicdude]

And I'll add to the list, but not exclusively: William Henry Harrison, James K. Polk, Franklin D. Roosevelt, Harry S. Truman, Dwight D. Eisenhower.

But you got my drift. How many people went around saying "William J. Clinton" instead of Bill Clinton?
I think the judge called him that when he was on trial for.....well you know. :)

Yeah, but is that when she has gotten into trouble? :)
Or when I can tell she's about to. lol

I'm not saying you can't use his middle name, but why did you put the whole thing? It's surely a lot more to type. Considering how it has been used by the likes of Ann Coulter and Michelle Malkin, I'm sure you can see how it can color your entire statement in a certain way, especially if you are a conservative/republican ( I gather that you are, but I will not assume).
I like typing. You can tell that from my lengthy responses. :)
I never abbreviate anything just to save a few keystrokes. Laughing out loud!!!

[Musicdude]

OK JL if you seriously think he deserves it after less than a year in office than you have lost whatever shred of credibility there might have been to your claims at being a "moderate." C'mon seriously even SNL is taking shots at this. I don't rule out the possibility that he may earn it someday but c'mon no president should be given this award within their first year. It's a joke.


Pastor, you are just funny!! I gotta say... Seriously, do you hate Obama that much? Seriously? The President of the US won the Nobel Peace Prize, a great honor, and you want to discredit him? That's not Christian. That's anti-American.

Anti-American? Isn't the Nobel committee based in Sweden?

If we are bashing anyone (which we aren't) it would be the Nobel Committee, not the president.

[Teresa79]

I think he's done some good for peace...just not enough for the Peace prize...

Verb, its easy to bash Bush...there's 8 yrs and 1.2+ million Iraq deaths, 40,000 mamed Americans and countless dead troops as reasons....


As one of the many troops that has been to Iraq and fought in this "so called necessary" war; in which we didn't even go after the person that was supposedly the reason for it in the first place, and might I add is still on the run; all I have to say is AMEN!

[VerbumReale]

As one of the many troops that has been to Iraq and fought in this "so called necessary" war; in which we didn't even go after the person that was supposedly the reason for it in the first place, and might I add is still on the run; all I have to say is AMEN!

And as I said in another post. I was not criticizing Bush-bashing per se' but simply pointing out a certain individual's penchant for doing so at any opportunity.

BTW: Thank you for your service.

[Howlin' Wolf]

You are loving one side of Jesus, the side that fits best with your personal philosophy.
two thumbs up!

[Musicdude]

As one of the many troops that has been to Iraq and fought in this "so called necessary" war; in which we didn't even go after the person that was supposedly the reason for it in the first place, and might I add is still on the run; all I have to say is AMEN!

That reminds me of when I want to make a pot of coffee in the morning and the sink is full of dishes. I can't rinse the coffee pot out because there is no room in the sink. So I have to put all the dishes in the dishwasher first. So I go to do that and the dishwasher is full of clean dishes.

So before I can clean the sink out, I first have to put the clean dishes away.

So I might tell someone I went to the kitchen to make a pot of coffee, but it looks as though I'm doing everything but making coffee. But all that other junk has to be done first.

I guess I could just fill the coffee pot up in the bathtub, but I'd rather just do it the right way.

[Musicdude]

two thumbs up!

I agree with what Tree said there too.

Hey maybe I'm not just arbitrarily disagreeing with everything you say. Hmm...

[Howlin' Wolf]

That reminds me of when I want to make a pot of coffee in the morning and the sink is full of dishes. I can't rinse the coffee pot out because there is no room in the sink. So I have to put all the dishes in the dishwasher first. So I go to do that and the dishwasher is full of clean dishes.

So before I can clean the sink out, I first have to put the clean dishes away.

So I might tell someone I went to the kitchen to make a pot of coffee, but it looks as though I'm doing everything but making coffee. But all that other junk has to be done first.

I guess I could just fill the coffee pot up in the bathtub, but I'd rather just do it the right way.

that is such a great analogy that supports an illegal war. I especially love how you phrased the analogy to a former soldier that fought in said illegal war. I know that soldiers love arm chair patriots and their opinions. So from all the soldiers, thank you!

[Musicdude]

that is such a great analogy that supports an illegal war. I especially love how you phrased the analogy to a former soldier that fought in said illegal war. I know that soldiers love arm chair patriots and their opinions. So from all the soldiers, thank you!

Ok, well since you hate analogies so much. Here it is in plain english.


Just because we aren't actively pursuing Osama Bin Laden right at this very moment, doesn't mean that we have totally lost sight of our primary objective in this war.

I would gladly go if my nation needed me. I seriously look forward for such an opportunity. I hope a draft is reinstated soon. I only regret not signing up when I was younger and had the chance.

If it were illegal it wouldn't have happened. It takes more than the decision of one man to lead America to battle. Why hasn't Barack brought all the troops home yet by the way? Just curious. If it's a wasted effort, and nothing more than the oil-war that so many Bush antagonists claim, then why are we still there?

Are you a veteran Jason? Do they need you to defend them?


And with all due respect to said soldier, fighting in a war doesn't make you an authority on when it's necessary to go to war and when it's not.

[Jesuslove]

Anti-American? Isn't the Nobel committee based in Sweden?
No, Norway.

If we are bashing anyone (which we aren't) it would be the Nobel Committee, not the president.

Which is fine. These are scholared men who make up this committee.

[Howlin' Wolf]

Ok, well since you hate analogies so much. Here it is in plain english.


If it were illegal it wouldn't have happened. It takes more than the decision of one man to lead America to battle. Why hasn't Barack brought all the troops home yet by the way? Just curious. If it's a wasted effort, and nothing more than the oil-war that so many Bush antagonists claim, then why are we still there?

If it were illegal, it would not have happened. wow!

So, by your rationale, could we apply the same thing to Hitler? Moreover, what about the nazis that survived the war, but were yet hung as war criminals?

[mcgreen311]

And the thread has officially been Godwinized...

[Evanescence]

They changed their story on the true mastermind behind 911....

First it was Osama Bin Hidin'....now its KS Mohommad who was TORTURED into confession...

Osama isnt even on the FBIs wanted list for 911....

gee...imagine that...

[Musicdude]

If it were illegal, it would not have happened. wow!

So, by your rationale, could we apply the same thing to Hitler? Moreover, what about the nazis that survived the war, but were yet hung as war criminals?

Our nation isn't quite as out of control as Nazi Germany just yet.

[HumanityisSaved]

If it were illegal it wouldn't have happened. It takes more than the decision of one man to lead America to battle. Why hasn't Barack brought all the troops home yet by the way? Just curious. If it's a wasted effort, and nothing more than the oil-war that so many Bush antagonists claim, then why are we still there?

The war in Afghanistan was not illegal. The war in Iraq is illegal.

[HumanityisSaved]

Pastor, you are just funny!! I gotta say... Seriously, do you hate Obama that much? Seriously? The President of the US won the Nobel Peace Prize, a great honor, and you want to discredit him? That's not Christian. That's anti-American.

He did not win it... he admitted to doing nothing to earn it and accepted it as a "Call to action" Seth Meyers gigged him by reminding Obama that is what the election was about too. LOL

He was given the Nobel Prize and as a Steelers fan I'd be ashamed if Mike Tomlin and crew were awarded the Lombardi Trophy before actually EARNING it.

[HumanityisSaved]

Congratulations Michelle Obama-- LOL that was Conan's joke last night.

[Grank]

an action is only illegal if something with more power tells you it is... which means it'd be hard for america to be in an illegal war. i.e, if germany would have won ww2, would they have been tried for war crimes? let alone convicted...

[Evanescence]

history is written by the winners....

[HumanityisSaved]

an action is only illegal if something of with more power tells you it is... which means it'd be hard for america to be in an illegal war. i.e, if germany would have won ww2, would they have been tried for war crimes? let alone convicted...

How about the US Constitution is bigger than America! The US Constitution is our law and it does not allow congress to "Authorize the President to use force". If we are to go to war Congress must pass a Declaration of War. We did so in Afghanistan but not Iraq. According to our Constitution Irag is an illegal war.

[Jesuslove]

He did not win it... he admitted to doing nothing to earn it and accepted it as a "Call to action" Seth Meyers gigged him by reminding Obama that is what the election was about too. LOL

He was given the Nobel Prize and as a Steelers fan I'd be ashamed if Mike Tomlin and crew were awarded the Lombardi Trophy before actually EARNING it.

But he wouldn't have won it if the committee thought he hadn't earned it. The Steelers just plain suck.

[HotWireD]

I can think of no reason for him to recieve the Nobel Prize. In a way it devalues it (in my opinion).

The only thing he has done that is different to all the previous Presidents is not be white.

Maybe the Nobel Peace Prize Commission wanted to mark the occasion of President Obama being made President?

I would imagine he is embarassed at being awarded this prize knowing how many people are out there really working hard for Peace in the world.

I think it is asign of the NWO - present people with awards for doing nothing - a bit like large monetary awards to bankers who did nothing.

Cudos on President Obama for having saved the day by donating the 880 000 dollars to charity.

[Jesuslove]

I can think of no reason for him to recieve the Nobel Prize. In a way it devalues it (in my opinion).

The only thing he has done that is different to all the previous Presidents is not be white.


He's also fought for universal healthcare, worked to solve our nation's economic crisis, and tried to make peace with our enemies. That's a lot for Year 1 of 8 of Obama world!

[HumanityisSaved]

He's also fought for universal healthcare, worked to solve our nation's economic crisis, and tried to make peace with our enemies. That's a lot for Year 1 of 8 of Obama world!

But he has actually ACCOMPLISHED nothing. He has not done anything. The Nobel Prize is not for good intentions and besides he was nominated for it after less than ONE month in office. So what you say he did in the way of "fighting for socialized medicine, tripling the national debt, and entering a boxing ring with a microphone and a teleprompter" had not even happened yet. Besides the Nobel Committee had a majority that were concerned about giving the prize to Obama. Yet more powerful members pushed it through. Just because Obama was given the Nobel Peace Prize without earning it does not, in itself, mean he's a failure it just means that the Nobel Committee is. So don't take it personally. And by the way you completely missed the analogy. In the analogy I said I'd be embarrassed if the Steelers were given the Lombardi Trophy without winning the Superbowl. Luck cannot factor in if the game has yet to be played and that was the scenario I depicted.

Sheesh!

[HotWireD]

He's also fought for universal healthcare, worked to solve our nation's economic crisis, and tried to make peace with our enemies. That's a lot for Year 1 of 8 of Obama world!

That has not been reported in the UK media.

If he does not deliver on his promises, he will not get eight years.

[HumanityisSaved]

That has not been reported in the UK media.

If he does not deliver on his promises, he will not get eight years.

Lets pray he does NOT deliver on his promises because his promises will destroy our freedom and America's prosperity.

[cheewiee]

He's also fought for universal healthcare, worked to solve our nation's economic crisis, and tried to make peace with our enemies. That's a lot for Year 1 of 8 of Obama world!

Michael Moore came out, congratulated Obama for winning, and then asked him to earn it.

Stuff like this just proves to me, that although you say your an independent, your really are just lock step with the DNC....

[middletree]

http://gordonkeith.files.wordpre ss.com/2009/10/obamewinshockey.jpg

[danbos]

http://gordonkeith.files.wordpre ss.com/2009/10/obamewinshockey.jpg

That is a disgrace to the Red Wings uniform.

[Jesuslove]

Michael Moore came out, congratulated Obama for winning, and then asked him to earn it.

Stuff like this just proves to me, that although you say your an independent, your really are just lock step with the DNC....

Actually, NOT. I have voted Republican in presidential elections, gubenatorial elections, all the way down to town elections. To me, it's all about ideas. In fact, I'm about to vote in the NJ election for governor. I am leaning toward the Republican candidate over the Democratic incumbent.

Unlike you, I look at the choices and not let abortion rule my vote.

[cheewiee]

Actually, NOT. I have voted Republican in presidential elections, gubenatorial elections, all the way down to town elections. To me, it's all about ideas. In fact, I'm about to vote in the NJ election for governor. I am leaning toward the Republican candidate over the Democratic incumbent.

Unlike you, I look at the choices and not let abortion rule my vote.

LOL.... :rolleyes:

[Musicdude]

But he has actually ACCOMPLISHED nothing. He has not done anything.

"He enters Rome like a conquering hero. But what has he conquered?"
Senator Graccus; from the movie Gladiator.

I just thought it an appropriate quote about now.

Talk amongst yehselves.

[Musicdude]

Actually, NOT. I have voted Republican in presidential elections, gubenatorial elections, all the way down to town elections. To me, it's all about ideas. In fact, I'm about to vote in the NJ election for governor. I am leaning toward the Republican candidate over the Democratic incumbent.

Unlike you, I look at the choices and not let abortion rule my vote.

To some of us, the murdering of babies is an important issue. But to each his own I guess.

[HumanityisSaved]

To some of us, the murdering of babies is an important issue. But to each his own I guess.

How could anyone represent Jesus' love for humanity and dismiss abortion as an unimportant issue? I saw Law and Order the other night and there was an abortion doctor that had been murdered and the cops were at the "clinic" and Dick Wolf was portraying the clinic as the victim and my wife said - "they're the victims!? what about the babies they murder?"

[HumanityisSaved]

Actually, NOT. I have voted Republican in presidential elections, gubenatorial elections,

Would you mind saying which Conservative you voted for in a presidential election? Would it have been D.D.I. or Nixon perhaps? Was it Reagan? GHWB? GWB? McCain? Who?

[cheewiee]

To some of us, the murdering of babies is an important issue. But to each his own I guess.

If Abortion was the only reason I was conservative, I might be swayed to vote Democrat...

But it isn't... I am more of a federalist (with anti federalist leanings)...

I belive that the closer the government is to the people the more responsive it is. I believe in State Soverignty over most domestic issues.

I believe that the Constitution gives the Federal Government control over National Defense, Foreign Relations, Creating a national currancy & regulating International/Interstate Commerce. I believe that the constitution gives states & people control over everything else.

If I had my way
The Department of the Interior, Transportation, Agriculture and Labor would be abolished, with many of their functions being rolled under the department of commerce. The Department of Veterans Affairs and Homeland Security would be rolled under the department of defense. Health and Human Services, Housing and urban development, and education would be abolished. The funding for said departments would begin to be diverted to the states based on population, with the idea of the taxation of these departments would eventually moved from being federal taxes, to state taxes..

[Jesuslove]

Would you mind saying which Conservative you voted for in a presidential election? Would it have been D.D.I. or Nixon perhaps? Was it Reagan? GHWB? GWB? McCain? Who?

I voted for Ford, Reagan (2x) and GHWB (1)

[Jesuslove]

To some of us, the murdering of babies is an important issue. But to each his own I guess.

I'm not a single issue voter. I see killing a fetus as different than killing an innocent Iraqi.

How could anyone represent Jesus' love for humanity and dismiss abortion as an unimportant issue? I saw Law and Order the other night and there was an abortion doctor that had been murdered and the cops were at the "clinic" and Dick Wolf was portraying the clinic as the victim and my wife said - "they're the victims!? what about the babies they murder?"

I never said it was unimportant. There are many important issues presented by both democrats and republicans.. There are moral positions on both sides.

[Jason]

I'm not a single issue voter. I see killing a fetus as different than killing an innocent Iraqi.


God doesn't.

[Musicdude]

How could anyone represent Jesus' love for humanity and dismiss abortion as an unimportant issue? I saw Law and Order the other night and there was an abortion doctor that had been murdered and the cops were at the "clinic" and Dick Wolf was portraying the clinic as the victim and my wife said - "they're the victims!? what about the babies they murder?"

Yeah, I don't get it. It just proves that human beings can rationalize anything, if they want to bad enough.

[Musicdude]

If Abortion was the only reason I was conservative, I might be swayed to vote Democrat...

But it isn't... I am more of a federalist (with anti federalist leanings)...

I belive that the closer the government is to the people the more responsive it is. I believe in State Soverignty over most domestic issues.

I believe that the Constitution gives the Federal Government control over National Defense, Foreign Relations, Creating a national currancy & regulating International/Interstate Commerce. I believe that the constitution gives states & people control over everything else.

If I had my way
The Department of the Interior, Transportation, Agriculture and Labor would be abolished, with many of their functions being rolled under the department of commerce. The Department of Veterans Affairs and Homeland Security would be rolled under the department of defense. Health and Human Services, Housing and urban development, and education would be abolished. The funding for said departments would begin to be diverted to the states based on population, with the idea of the taxation of these departments would eventually moved from being federal taxes, to state taxes..

Yeah, abortion is hardly the only reason I usually vote republican either. But I just don't like it when dems make it sound like we make a bigger issue of it than we should. As far as I'm concerned it's impossible to make too big an issue of abortion.

[Musicdude]

I'm not a single issue voter. I see killing a fetus as different than killing an innocent Iraqi.
Neither am I. But some are more important than others.

Wars happen no matter what party is in charge. Sometimes there is no avoiding it. But abortions certainly can be avoided.
Wait, did you mean to say "no different"?

I never said it was unimportant. There are many important issues presented by both democrats and republicans.. There are moral positions on both sides.

There are positions on both sides. There are not moral positions on both sides.

[Jason]

Wait, did you mean to say "no different"?


No, he didn't mean to say "no different." That's why he used the term "fetus."

[Musicdude]

No, he didn't mean to say "no different." That's why he used the term "fetus."

Ahh.....


Here is a picture of my new child. It might not look like a human yet, but it soon will. Nothing anyone will ever say will convince me that taking this human's life is ever ok under any circumstances.

[HumanityisSaved]

Ahh.....


Here is a picture of my new child. It might not look like a human yet, but it soon will. Nothing anyone will ever say will convince me that taking this human's life is ever ok under any circumstances.

Congratulations on your new BABY (notice that I referred to the little tyke as a baby and not a fetus)
Murdering innocents is the same whether they are born or not!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!

[Jason]

Ahh.....


Here is a picture of my new child. It might not look like a human yet, but it soon will. Nothing anyone will ever say will convince me that taking this human's life is ever ok under any circumstances.

Coolio!

[Jason]

If Abortion was the only reason I was conservative, I might be swayed to vote Democrat...

But it isn't... I am more of a federalist (with anti federalist leanings)...

I belive that the closer the government is to the people the more responsive it is. I believe in State Soverignty over most domestic issues.

I believe that the Constitution gives the Federal Government control over National Defense, Foreign Relations, Creating a national currancy & regulating International/Interstate Commerce. I believe that the constitution gives states & people control over everything else.

If I had my way
The Department of the Interior, Transportation, Agriculture and Labor would be abolished, with many of their functions being rolled under the department of commerce. The Department of Veterans Affairs and Homeland Security would be rolled under the department of defense. Health and Human Services, Housing and urban development, and education would be abolished. The funding for said departments would begin to be diverted to the states based on population, with the idea of the taxation of these departments would eventually moved from being federal taxes, to state taxes..

Amen.

[HumanityisSaved]

I voted for Ford, Reagan (2x) and GHWB (1)

Why may I ask did you vote for Reagan and do you still support Reagan Conservatism?

[middletree]

http://cserver.rbma.com/content/Mallard_Fillmore?date=200 91026

http://cserver.rbma.com/content/Mallard_Fillmore?date=200 91026

[VerbumReale]

How could anyone represent Jesus' love for humanity and dismiss abortion as an unimportant issue? I saw Law and Order the other night and there was an abortion doctor that had been murdered and the cops were at the "clinic" and Dick Wolf was portraying the clinic as the victim and my wife said - "they're the victims!? what about the babies they murder?"


I saw that and I thought that the portrayal of the clinic was ridiculous also. But I have to admit overall I was really surprised at how balanced they were in this episode which was obviously based on the George Tiller killing. As soon as I realized that Anthony Anderson's character was pro-life, I sort of figured they would have had him change his mind or at least struggling more by the end of the episode. But actually I found that his convictions were respected quite a bit as the episode went on. I was also surprised at the twist where we find out that the murdered dr had actually completed an abortion even after removing the baby from the mother's womb and it was still alive, which I believe became necessary after complications in the attempted abortion. That was also based on a true story. I don't know if it was Tiller that did that but it did happen, and of course didn't get much coverage by CNN,NBC,CBS,ABC, MSNBC etc. I was also surprised at the turn that we saw in the assistant DA. The person who ended up looking the worse was the DA, because he ended up looking like a complete hypocrite.

[middletree]

I saw another episode many years ago, when Fred Thompson was the DA, and it allowed him and one of this assistant DAs to have a back-and-forth about abortion, and it was surprisingly balanced as well. He got the last word, and spoke of one of the items you never hear mentioned these days: Roe v Wade's decision was based partially on what the Supreme Court determined to be a Right to Privacy, which is never mentioned in the Constitution. But the 1973 SC said it was implied, and that was part of their rationale behind the Roe decision.

In the episode, Fred spoke of what a bogus argument that was, and of course the young lady with whom he was debating argued back, but like I said, the scene didn't present either side in a bad light, and didn't make the pro-lifer look like a doofus.

[middletree]

back to the original topic

[HumanityisSaved]

Obama gave a roughly 4000 word speech basically defending war as he accepted the Nobel Prize for Peace. If he'd been any kind of man he'd have declined the prize as he'd not done anything to earn it, He even admitted as much in the speech. Hmmmm.....

Obama=Epic Fail

[rossid]

The man who is sending 20,000 more men and women into war and winner of the Arthur Nobel Prize for Peace..Barack Obama??????

[HumanityisSaved]

You know, I really am starting to wonder if perhaps those on the Nobel Committee were star-struck (like most of his voters) with Obama and just wanted an audience with "The One". So the best way to meet him was to select him for a Nobel Prize.

[Jesuslove]

You know, I really am starting to wonder if perhaps those on the Nobel Committee were star-struck (like most of his voters) with Obama and just wanted an audience with "The One". So the best way to meet him was to select him for a Nobel Prize.

I'd bet that no matter who the GOP were to put up against Obama, they'd lose.

[HumanityisSaved]

I'd bet that no matter who the GOP were to put up against Obama, they'd lose.

You might be right but however a true Conservative would soundly defeat him in 2012.

[Jesuslove]

You might be right but however a true Conservative would soundly defeat him in 2012.

can you name one?

[HumanityisSaved]

can you name one?

That my friend is the sad part. I cannot. I cannot name a single person that I feel is conservative enough and then one who might overcome the almighty hurdle of the leftwing media and the entertainment media working their assassinations on them which would be a problem- but in the open arena of ideas Conservatism wins as most people in America identify themselves as politically conservative with moderates coming second and liberals coming last.

Republicans are no longer conservative. GWB trampled on the Constitution. The Patriot Act? Please! What a ravaging of our rights. And Iraq was illegal. Now we have a president that is taking over private companies giving them to unions, printing money by the trillions, and who has tripled the Nat. Debt in just 9 months.

Jesuslove I know you must love this country but progressivism is an oxymoron. It is not progress and is destroying this greatest of Nations. We now have a society where over 50% receive govt assistance at some level. I just finished watching the HBO miniseries John Adams and wept at what we were dreamed to be and now what we have become. My own 5th Great Grandfather was a Colonel in the Army of the Revolution and rode with Gen. George Washington; his son was a captain and rode with Patrick Henry as a guard. They both gave up their wealth and lands to help finance the war for independence and to help birth a new free nation- and now we are less free than when we were bound by the shackles of Britain. This is not about parties this is about corruption and greed both in and out of govt. The two parties have so infused a sense of belonging in their members that often party members have identified their own self-worth with a political party. How sad! The ontological truth about all of us is that we belong to the Father, Son, ad Spirit and all of us always have and always will. The two parties are working toward the same end just in different ways. They are neither one conservative. They are neither one upholding the Constitution of the United States of America.

"I, [insert the name of the one taking the oath], do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will faithfully execute the office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States so help me God."

The actions of any predecessor do not excuse or permit the actions of another. Each President's actions must be based on this oath. The oath of office does not mention upholding the actions or patterns of another only that the President "faithfully execute the office of president of the United States and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States so help me God"

[Johnny 59]

"for his extraordinary efforts to strengthen international diplomacy and cooperation between peoples."? Still waiting...