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Sharon
10-07-2009, 12:34 AM
I just think this is so ridiculous!!! Our wonderful ACLU at work again!



In 1934, WWI Veterans erected a monument to honor their comrades who had died in battle. The ACLU now wants to tear it down, and all public memorials like it, because of its religious imagery.

After WWI many U.S. soldiers moved to the Californian desert to find physical and emotional healing. In 1934, they erected a memorial to honor their fallen comrades, a single white cross, - a symbol used around the world to memorialize those who paid the ultimate sacrifice for their country.

The site for the memorial was chosen because at a certain time of day, the sun casts a shadow on the rock which resembles a WWI doughboy. For more than 75 years, the memorial has stood as a reminder that there were those who fought and died for our freedoms. But sadly today, the ACLU and a federal judge in California, want to tear it down. In fact, the judge has ordered the memorial covered from view while the case is on appeal. Please join us in saying "donttearmedown." We think Americans should honor their war heroes and the freedoms they so valiantly protect; and we're taking our case all the way to the U.S. Supreme Court this fall. Please join us in this battle, go to www.donttearmedown.com.


The Mojave Desert Memorial Cross has stood proudly for over 75 years, honoring our American war dead. Or it was until the ACLU stepped in and got a judge to rule the memorial to World War I veterans unconstitutional. They covered the cross with a bag, and when that didn't work, they boarded it up in a plywood box. Now, they're threatening to tear down this national monument because they don't believe America should have religious imagery anywhere on public property.



Here's some history:
1934 The VFW erects the cross and plaque to remember fallen service members at Sunrise Rock in Mojave Desert.

1999 National Park Service (NPS) denies a request to erect a Buddhist statue near the cross and indicates intention to remove the cross.

2001 Congress prohibits NPS from spending federal funds to remove the cross. Frank Buono, former NPS employee, files suit claiming an Establishment Clause violation.

2002 Congress designates the cross and surrounding property as a "national memorial commemorating United States participation in World War I and honoring American veterans of that war." Congress also agrees to give the VFW one acre of property on which the cross sits in exchange for five acres of privately-owned land elsewhere in the Mojave Desert Preserve.

July 2002 The District Court rules cross is unconstitutional and must be removed.

Sept. 2002 Congress again passes a bill ordering the NPS to transfer the land surrounding the cross to the VFW.

2004 The Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals agrees with district court that the cross must be removed.

2005 The District Court enforces a permanent injunction against the cross.

2007 The Ninth Circuit rules that Congress cannot cure an Establishment Clause violation by transferring land.

2008 The Ninth Circuit refuses to hear the case again.

2009 The Supreme Court agrees to hear the case. The Supreme Court will hear the case on October 7, 2009; cross is covered with a plywood box.

middletree
10-07-2009, 01:19 AM
I agree that the ACLU is out of line. However, I caution all Christians on this that we can lose sight of what's important, and can even make an idol of this thing.

Sharon
10-07-2009, 01:23 AM
I agree that the ACLU is out of line. However, I caution all Christians on this that we can lose sight of what's important, and can even make an idol of this thing.

I think it's ridiculous because our tax dollars are involved in the inane argument .... who cares?? There's so much more important things than whether a wooden memorial cross is offensive GET OVER IT !!! :rolleyes:

Evanescence
10-07-2009, 06:18 AM
Tricky....both sides have valid points...

Jesuslove
10-07-2009, 10:13 AM
Tricky....both sides have valid points...

I agree. If we were debating about a Wiccan symbol, I'm not sure most Americans would think the argument would be silly.

Pouye
10-08-2009, 05:11 PM
I agree. If we were debating about a Wiccan symbol, I'm not sure most Americans would think the argument would be silly.

Our country wasn't founded on Wiccan principles but on Judeo-Christian ones. People don't like that fact in this day and age, but it is true. Even our founding documents make reference to the Creator and to God. "In God We Trust" has been printed on our money.

If in Saudi Arabia, they erected a monument for their war heroes that was a giant Koran, I would be fine with that. Their country was founded on the Koran, and it is a strong part of their culture. If Saudi Arabia became a majority Christian nation and wanted to tear down the monument, they could do so, but they may certainly offend the Muslims in the country.

What we are seeing now is a culture war in the USA. Other religions in the USA are vying for position, power, and influence (including Humanism). In the name of "equal rights" religious freedoms that Christians once enjoyed are now being eroded, with secular or pagan influences given more and more prominence. This is the same path European nations have been treading, with the secularisation and paganisation of society there.

I personally see it as a real sign of the state of our nation when crosses (a very Christian symbol) are seen as offensive. I'm not saying that we should fight to "save the crosses", but I do think that this should be a telling sign to all Christians that what you believe is considered offensive, and anything reminding people of Jesus is also offensive. Maybe that's a good thing...

Rock

Evanescence
10-08-2009, 06:11 PM
While I agree with you rock on the founding of the country on Christian beliefs...its is also well know that the founding fathers allowed freedom of religion and a clear separation between chruch and state. That being said...Athism is a religion..the religion of non-belief..so when they...and they mostly raise the stink...they are in fact, inflicting their beliefs on us....

There should just be absurdity laws....and "knock it the he** off" laws....

Grank
10-08-2009, 10:14 PM
its a noble memorial commemorating fallen American warriors... i can't understand why someone would want to take it down...if we lost a few thousand buddhists in ww1(i know they don't fight much) i wouldn't be against a buddhist statue...

Sharon
10-08-2009, 11:54 PM
its a noble memorial commemorating fallen American warriors... i can't understand why someone would want to take it down...if we lost a few thousand buddists in ww1(i know they don't fight much) i wouldn't be against a buddist statue...

Exactly!!! One person became offended and raised a big stink so the ACLU jumped on it to push forward their agenda and waste tax money

just my opinon

WeaselInYerFoot
10-09-2009, 05:06 AM
its a noble memorial commemorating fallen American warriors... i can't understand why someone would want to take it down...if we lost a few thousand buddists in ww1(i know they don't fight much) i wouldn't be against a buddist statue...

The cross is also a symbol for the dead. It's what most people use on their tombstones religious, or not. Much like what one sees on untersections where an accident recently occured. If they're going to remove it simply because it's a religious symbol, then they have their work cut out for them. Good luck trying to remove them from this:

http://atlasshrugs2000.typepad.c om/atlas_shrugs/images/2008/06/05/normandyamericancamatery. jpg

But usually, these cases are started by some lawer trying to get his name out.

WeaselInYerFoot
10-09-2009, 05:11 AM
Exactly!!! One person became offended and raised a big stink so the ACLU jumped on it to push forward their agenda and waste tax money

just my opinon

I don't know about the ACLU having an agenda. There's been plenty of times when it has helped Christians. I can give you several examples if you're interested. Problem is that these are never mentioned.

Jesuslove
10-09-2009, 07:02 AM
its a noble memorial commemorating fallen American warriors... i can't understand why someone would want to take it down...if we lost a few thousand buddists in ww1(i know they don't fight much) i wouldn't be against a buddist statue...

So you would be fine with a noble Wiccan memorial commemorating fallen American warriors in your neighborhood?

Grank
10-09-2009, 07:53 AM
So you would be fine with a noble Wiccan memorial commemorating fallen American warriors in your neighborhood?

if there were fallen american warriors in my neighborhood who were wiccan in their life, then i wouldn't have a problem with it at all... it's to commemorate their life and sacrifice. i'm not so selfish as to be offended by the symbol that would best do that. they're the ones who died, not me. my life can still be a witness to who i am... all they would have would be their memorial and tombstone

if i said i was ok with buddhist memorials why would i change my stance for wiccan ones?

Grank
10-09-2009, 08:26 AM
the more i think about this the more upset i get... i don't care that it's in the shape of a cross... it was put up by people who lost friends in a war, our war, that we won... i mean, they lost people they served with in a terrible war that could see over 1mil casualties in a battle... why do people have to get hung up on the symbols and miss all the meaning and sentiment in the action?

Pouye
10-18-2009, 06:52 PM
Exactly!!! One person became offended and raised a big stink so the ACLU jumped on it to push forward their agenda and waste tax money

just my opinon

Bingo... it comes down to money... imagine that!

Rock :eek: