single...and wanting to be a mother...

[missrenee]

i'm sorry if this is in the wrong place, but i could figure out where it would go. mods, feel free to move this!

i'm stuck on a dilemma and i just thought, when it comes to advice and helpful viewpoints, why not turn to my 3D friends and prayer partners (LOL). so, here goes...

i'm single and 33 (not much luck in the dating department); recently, my job at an elementary school has got me thinking about having a child of my own. at first, i thought i'd look into adoption after about a year. but, my mom suggested i go for a fertility clinic -- i.e. getting pregnant by a donor -- to have a child of my own. while researching all this, i realized, either way, i would have to go through a lot of psychiatric testing and so forth.

why? what do you guys think? any ideas/thoughts?

thanx in advance!

[sherri]

It's funny, but I just answered this exact same question on another forum.

My answer is that I grew up in a single parent situation myself and wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Children need both father and mother for healthy emotional development. Statistics back that up.

God is very into family, but he made men (modern science who've changed it aside) part of the equation deliberatly.

If someone is suffering unmet maternal instincts, there are plenty of voluntary community organisations that would love to have people volunteer to help give kids more love. Children from abused backgrounds. Childrens hospitals, special needs kids etc.

To have a child out of wedlock is to compromise a childs future to make yourself happy. It's showing a lack of trust in God to bring you the right man, and not being fair to another human being in the process (the children.)

God wants the very best for us. That's why he made biology to work a certain way in the first place. He created children to be brought up in a solid, family unit. Widowhood can happen and so can divorce. But that's from the devil, who the bible says comes to lie, kill and destroy. Single parent families are not Gods design, or ever his intention.

All good things come from God and he sets them up to work certain ways. All bad things come from the devil who sets out to pervert and destroy as much good in the world as he can.

Being a parent first and foremost requires us to put the needs of our children above our own. If we can't do that, then how can we expect to be the parent God wants us to be in the first place?

Why don't you seek some counselling from a christian family counselling service on this issue if you're still unsure?

[missrenee]

It's funny, but I just answered this exact same question on another forum.

My answer is that I grew up in a single parent situation myself and wouldn't recommend it to anyone. Children need both father and mother for healthy emotional development. Statistics back that up.

To have a child out of wedlock is to compromise a childs future to make yourself happy. It's showing a lack of trust in God to bring you the right man, and not being fair to another human being in the process (the children.)

thanx for your imput; i got so excited, i hadn't thought of it from that perspective!

[ausgirl]

thanx for your imput; i got so excited, i hadn't thought of it from that perspective!HiI could be you!* Same age, same marital situation!* This thought has briefly crossed my mind in the past but only very briefly because there are plenty of reasons why I wouldn't do it:Firstly I think a child needs a father and mother and that's how God designed it to beI will own my own home in the next year or two (ie pay it off by then) but I still would have to work -there is no way I would take single parent payments, but I also wouldn't work full time, so that rules that outThere are a whole pile of other reasons. Don't make any rash decisions, think it all out.

[R. Smith]

I would like to echo what has been said already, think this out be4 doing anything...

[ayfan]

As someone who has experienced life without a father around (mine died when I was just under 2 years old), I don't recommend purposely having a child while single. There's a lot of heartache to the child involved. I know what I've missed out on.

[Jesuslove]

HiI could be you!* Same age, same marital situation!* This thought has briefly crossed my mind in the past but only very briefly because there are plenty of reasons why I wouldn't do it:Firstly I think a child needs a father and mother and that's how God designed it to beI will own my own home in the next year or two (ie pay it off by then) but I still would have to work -there is no way I would take single parent payments, but I also wouldn't work full time, so that rules that outThere are a whole pile of other reasons. Don't make any rash decisions, think it all out.

I have to disagree with what everyone above has said. I'm a 46 year old SINGLE man, who CHOSE to be a parent about 10 years ago. I adopted a child, born abroad, and came to the US at age 1 year, 2 months back in May,2004. The experience has been so positive for both of us. I am blessed by a great, well adjusted, happy kid. He is blessed having a parent who can care for him and who can give him every opportunity he will need to succeed in life. Single parenting can be challenging, but the reward is beyond comprehension. There are so many kids out there, needing and wanting to be adopted. They have NO parents. Consider adoption. I'd be happy to give any advice or guidance in the process. God bless!

[Jesuslove]

To have a child out of wedlock is to compromise a childs future to make yourself happy.
There are over half a million American children in foster care right now. Many are there because of dysfunctional two-parent households. You can't talk in absolutes when it comes to parenting. Sure, in a perfect world, every child would have the Clevers... perfect stay-at-home Mom, and attentive Dad. That's not realistic though. I know many single parents who do a better job raising children than two-parent households.

It's showing a lack of trust in God to bring you the right man, and not being fair to another human being in the process (the children.)
I brought this up in another thread. A girl I grew up with will never find a man. I could go into details, but I'll just say, she'll never marry. Anyway, she always wanted to be a mother. Since it is virtually impossible for her to attract a man, is it then selfish for her to have a child on her own? I think there's a gray area. She eventually had in-vitro. If God didn't want her to be a parent, he wouldn't have let her be, in my opinion.

God wants the very best for us. That's why he made biology to work a certain way in the first place. He created children to be brought up in a solid, family unit. Widowhood can happen and so can divorce. But that's from the devil, who the bible says comes to lie, kill and destroy.
I think you are mixing apples and oranges. Biology has little to do with parenting. Just about anyone can make a baby, but not everyone is capable of raising a baby. And divorce happens. Divorce isn't always from the devil. Sometimes children are better off being raised by a single, emotionally balanced parent, then by a couple where one parent has dysfunction (drug addiction, alcoholism, etc.). There are no absolutes.


Single parent families are not Gods design, or ever his intention.
Very judgmental. I prayed a lot during the adoption process. If it wasn't for God, I wouldn't be a parent. It was God's intention for me to be a parent. So to say it's not God's intention is wrong.

[rossid]

Don't have a child without a husband.

[Jesuslove]

Don't have a child without a husband.

I think that's a bit unfair. Do you realize how many children are being raised in happy, healthy single-parent environments? and do you realize how many more children would be in foster care if it were not for the graciousness of single parents?

[bholdj]

I think that's a bit unfair. Do you realize how many children are being raised in happy, healthy single-parent environments? and do you realize how many more children would be in foster care if it were not for the graciousness of single parents?

Im going to go out on a limb and say that Rossid was talking about not having a kid without a husband in the context of sexual relations.

That said, you know I agree with you here. Adoption is awesome. Although I would recomend having two parents in principal. Raising my son Evan has been tough enough as it is with just me! Ha! :D

[Jason]

I'm sorry but no one can argue that God's ideal for a child is not to have two parents ... a mother and a father. I'm not saying Jesuslove, as a single parent, is not a good father (nor am I saying he is ... because I don't have firsthand knowledge). I'm also not saying that there aren't hundreds of thousands of kids that need adopted because there are. What I'm saying is that the ideal for a child is to have two loving parents.

[Jesuslove]

I'm sorry but no one can argue that God's ideal for a child is not to have two parents ... a mother and a father. I'm not saying Jesuslove, as a single parent, is not a good father (nor am I saying he is ... because I don't have firsthand knowledge). I'm also not saying that there aren't hundreds of thousands of kids that need adopted because there are. What I'm saying is that the ideal for a child is to have two loving parents.

I agree. Two men, Two women, or a mixed-sex couple can equally raise a child. Single parents can do a good job too. I know far too many two-parent failed households.

[middletree]

I have a much better, though painfully obvious, solution.

Jesuslove, meet missrenee. missrenee, meet Jesuslove. Now, you two kids exchange phone numbers. We'll check back in a few months.

[Jason]

I have a much better, though painfully obvious, solution.

Jesuslove, meet missrenee. missrenee, meet Jesuslove. Now, you two kids exchange phone numbers. We'll check back in a few months.

Love it!

[R. Smith]

I, from the age of 13, lived with a single parent Dad. My Parents broke up, and moved away. I didn't have the same up bringing as most of my friends. And to this day, I have a hard time relating to guys. Even harder time hanging out with guys. I hang with with the Ladies more than guys, my 3 best friends are Ladies.

My Mom is now back in my life, but that's after like 20 years of being gone. Don't get me wrong, I love my Mom. But, I might have been a different person if she hadn't left. I look @ guys who attend my Church, and I'm nothing like them. I'm more in touch with my...feelings. But sometimes, I wish I was a Man's man...

[Jesuslove]

I have a much better, though painfully obvious, solution.

Jesuslove, meet missrenee. missrenee, meet Jesuslove. Now, you two kids exchange phone numbers. We'll check back in a few months.

Love it!

Maybe Missrenee wants to be single. Maybe I am happy as a single parent. Is that a sin? No. Is it sinful to raise a child in a single parent household? No. Did Jesus say that single people couldn't parent? No. Did Jesus suggest that being a single parent is a sinful lifestyle? No. Was Jesus raised in a non-traditional household? Yes. According to the Bible, Joseph wasn't the birthfather of Jesus. Mary was pregnant when she got married. And Jesus had two fathers.

[Jason]

Maybe Missrenee wants to be single. Maybe I am happy as a single parent. Is that a sin? No. Is it sinful to raise a child in a single parent household? No. Did Jesus say that single people couldn't parent? No. Did Jesus suggest that being a single parent is a sinful lifestyle? No. Was Jesus raised in a non-traditional household? Yes. According to the Bible, Joseph wasn't the birthfather of Jesus. Mary was pregnant when she got married. And Jesus had two fathers.

Was Jesus raised by a human father and mother? Yes.

[Jesuslove]

Was Jesus raised by a human father and mother? Yes.

Yes, but it doesn't make it the only moral family scenario. I think God feared Jesus and his message would have been rejected (at that time in history), had be been raised by a single parent.

[Jason]

Yes, but it doesn't make it the only moral family scenario. I think God feared Jesus and his message would have been rejected (at that time in history), had be been raised by a single parent.

My point is just as ridiculous as yours.

So, JL, don't you want your son to have the benefit of a loving mother?

[Jesuslove]

My point is just as ridiculous as yours.

So, JL, don't you want your son to have the benefit of a loving mother?
My point isn't ridiculous.

My son has a loving mother. She gave him up for adoption. How more loving could a parent get than to give up their child?

Let me ask you. Did it bother you that you had 3 mothers (one birthmother and two stepmothers), as your father was married three times? Did your father's marriages make you more functional because he was a parent AND he was married?

[Musicdude]

How more loving could a parent get than to give up their child?



Huh?

[Jesuslove]

Huh?

Most Christians believe that it is an act of love for a parent to give up a child for adoption, rather than have an abortion. If a parent is not capable of caring for a child, it is an act of love to place that child up for adoption.

[middletree]

Maybe Missrenee wants to be single. Maybe I am happy as a single parent. Is that a sin? No. Is it sinful to raise a child in a single parent household? No. Did Jesus say that single people couldn't parent? No. Did Jesus suggest that being a single parent is a sinful lifestyle? No. Was Jesus raised in a non-traditional household? Yes. According to the Bible, Joseph wasn't the birthfather of Jesus. Mary was pregnant when she got married. And Jesus had two fathers.

Your inability to get that I was joking is astounding.

[Jason]

My point isn't ridiculous.

My son has a loving mother. She gave him up for adoption. How more loving could a parent get than to give up their child?

Let me ask you. Did it bother you that you had 3 mothers (one birthmother and two stepmothers), as your father was married three times? Did your father's marriages make you more functional because he was a parent AND he was married?

Your son's birth mother is not in his life on a day-to-day basis so he doesn't experience the love of a mother.

And I'm not sure where you're getting your facts. My dad was only married twice and the second marriage was only for six months. I only met her once.

And notice that I've been using the phrase "loving parents" and not just "parents."

[Jesuslove]

Your son's birth mother is not in his life on a day-to-day basis so he doesn't experience the love of a mother.

How do you know the facts regarding my son's Mom? In fact, she does have contact with me and him. She also has two other children she struggles to care for. At least my son has stability and doesn't have to deal with divorce/remarriage/step-parents, etc.

[Jesuslove]

Your inability to get that I was joking is astounding.

I get it James. I think marriage is a serious topic. Obviously you think the sanctity of marriage is a joke.

[Musicdude]

Most Christians believe that it is an act of love for a parent to give up a child for adoption, rather than have an abortion. If a parent is not capable of caring for a child, it is an act of love to place that child up for adoption.

Oh, well I guess if those are your only two options, adoption is more loving than murder. But I think if you determine to be responsible and raise your own child as unto the Lord, He will provide you the means.

[Musicdude]

I get it James. I think marriage is a serious topic. Obviously you think the sanctity of marriage is a joke.

You cannot survive a marriage without having a good sense of humor.

[Jesuslove]

Oh, well I guess if those are your only two options, adoption is more loving than murder. But I think if you determine to be responsible and raise your own child as unto the Lord, He will provide you the means.

I guess those in Appalachia and third world countries just haven't found the Lord yet. :confused:

[Musicdude]

I guess those in Appalachia and third world countries just haven't found the Lord yet. :confused:

Amazingly enough you aren't the first person to ask that question.

Here is your answer. If you don't like it take it up with Paul.

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Rom 10:18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."

[Jesuslove]

Amazingly enough you aren't the first person to ask that question.

Here is your answer. If you don't like it take it up with Paul.

Rom 10:17 So faith comes from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Rom 10:18 But I say, surely they have never heard, have they? Indeed they have; "THEIR VOICE HAS GONE OUT INTO ALL THE EARTH, AND THEIR WORDS TO THE ENDS OF THE WORLD."

That's all well and good, but it doesn't put food on the table in third world countries. Some of the poorest nations are also some of the most spiritual/religious/Christian nations.

[Musicdude]

That's all well and good, but it doesn't put food on the table in third world countries. Some of the poorest nations are also some of the most spiritual/religious/Christian nations.

Well they won't be poor in Heaven will they? So they had to suffer for their faith while on earth. So what is 80 years or so in light of eternity?


And it's not just all "well and good" it's the absolute truth of the word of God.

[Jesuslove]

Oh, well I guess if those are your only two options, adoption is more loving than murder. But I think if you determine to be responsible and raise your own child as unto the Lord, He will provide you the means.

I can't believe this is even a discussion. Adoption and abortion aren't easy decisions for most mothers. Placing a child up for adoption is often a loving act, no an irresponsible one. There are many who aren't capable, who won't allow their children to be adopted. Now that's a sin.

Well they won't be poor in Heaven will they? So they had to suffer for their faith while on earth. So what is 80 years or so in light of eternity?

And it's not just all "well and good" it's the absolute truth of the word of God.
What good is it to keep your child if you cannot provide for him or her on Earth? Seriously?

[Musicdude]

I can't believe this is even a discussion. Adoption and abortion aren't easy decisions for most mothers. Placing a child up for adoption is often a loving act, no an irresponsible one. There are many who aren't capable, who won't allow their children to be adopted. Now that's a sin.


What good is it to keep your child if you cannot provide for him or her on Earth? Seriously?

God will show favor to those who do what is right. You keep saying they can't provide. There is no such thing as "can't" with God. You should know that.

God will provide.

Psa 37:25 I have been young and now I am old, Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken Or his descendants begging bread.

Phi 4:12 I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need.
Phi 4:13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.


I am not just posting these verses to prove a point, or to be a know it all. These verses are true. Do you believe them?

[Jesuslove]

God will show favor to those who do what is right. You keep saying they can't provide. There is no such thing as "can't" with God. You should know that.

God will provide.

Psa 37:25 I have been young and now I am old, Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken Or his descendants begging bread.

Phi 4:12 I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need.
Phi 4:13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.


I am not just posting these verses to prove a point, or to be a know it all. These verses are true. Do you believe them?


Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are criticizing parents who put their children up for adoption, right?

If the solution to poverty and hunger was prayer, the world's problems would have been solved long, long ago.

[Musicdude]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but you are criticizing parents who put their children up for adoption, right?

If the solution to poverty and hunger was prayer, the world's problems would have been solved long, long ago.

Depends on what kind of prayer you are talking about. David said here that he's never seen the righteous forsaken. He didn't say anything about the unrighteous.

[Jesuslove]

Depends on what kind of prayer you are talking about. David said here that he's never seen the righteous forsaken. He didn't say anything about the unrighteous.

You still didn't answer my question.. are you criticizing those who put kids up for adoption? Are you suggesting they are non-believers for not trusting their needs would be met by God?

[Musicdude]

You still didn't answer my question.. are you criticizing those who put kids up for adoption? Are you suggesting they are non-believers for not trusting their needs would be met by God?

I clearly said what I meant, and I did answer your question.

I don't know everyone's circumstances, so how can I possible answer that question. But I do know what the bible says. And I do know that God keeps His promises. And if you want to keep your kids God will provide the way, if you trust Him.

[Jesuslove]

I clearly said what I meant, and I did answer your question.

I don't know everyone's circumstances, so how can I possible answer that question. But I do know what the bible says. And I do know that God keeps His promises. And if you want to keep your kids God will provide the way, if you trust Him.

It sounds to me like you are critical of families who put kids up for adoption. True or False?

If everything is as grand as you suggest, why are there millions of innocent kids around the world in orphanages? Why are there half a million American kids in foster care, while America is the richest nation in the world? Seriously ?

[Musicdude]

It sounds to me like you are critical of families who put kids up for adoption. True or False?

If everything is as grand as you suggest, why are there millions of innocent kids around the world in orphanages? Why are there half a million American kids in foster care, while America is the richest nation in the world? Seriously ?

Maybe because America is about as far away from God as they ever have been.

[Jesuslove]

Maybe because America is about as far away from God as they ever have been.

So you're saying God would forsake innocent children because of the sins of their ancestors?

You still didn't answer my question: It sounds to me like you are critical of families who put kids up for adoption. True or False?

[Musicdude]

So you're saying God would forsake innocent children because of the sins of their ancestors?

You still didn't answer my question: It sounds to me like you are critical of families who put kids up for adoption. True or False?

Were there children in Soddom and Gomorrah? Were there babies on the earth when God brought the great flood? Did innocent children of the Egyptians die when God took the first borns?

God does not protect unbelievers. They are on their own in this world.

[Jesuslove]

Were there children in Soddom and Gomorrah? Were there babies on the earth when God brought the great flood? Did innocent children of the Egyptians die when God took the first borns?

You still didn't answer my question: It sounds to me like you are critical of families who put kids up for adoption. True or False?

[Musicdude]

You still didn't answer my question: It sounds to me like you are critical of families who put kids up for adoption. True or False?

I am critical of sin it'self, not people.

Now answer my question above.

[PrayerWarrior61]

Jesuslove you have not answered Musicdude, yet demand an answer. See Below:

God will show favor to those who do what is right. You keep saying they can't provide. There is no such thing as "can't" with God. You should know that.

God will provide.

Psa 37:25 I have been young and now I am old, Yet I have not seen the righteous forsaken Or his descendants begging bread.

Phi 4:12 I know how to get along with humble means, and I also know how to live in prosperity; in any and every circumstance I have learned the secret of being filled and going hungry, both of having abundance and suffering need.
Phi 4:13 I can do all things through Him who strengthens me.


I am not just posting these verses to prove a point, or to be a know it all. These verses are true. Do you believe them?

Is this how you answer a question? With a question?

It sounds to me like you are critical of families who put kids up for adoption. True or False?

If everything is as grand as you suggest, why are there millions of innocent kids around the world in orphanages? Why are there half a million American kids in foster care, while America is the richest nation in the world? Seriously ?

Just wanted clarification on the question asked of you. Now back to our regularly scheduled program.

[Jesuslove]

I am critical of sin it'self, not people.

Now answer my question above.

Are parents who put kids up for adoption committing sin by doing so?

[Musicdude]

Are parents who put kids up for adoption committing sin by doing so?

You answer my question first.

We can take turns.

[Jesuslove]

You answer my question first.

We can take turns.

Well it's the same question I've been asking you over and over, but you seem to be dodging it.

[Musicdude]

Well it's the same question I've been asking you over and over, but you seem to be dodging it.

No I just answered it. In case it wasn't clear the answer was NO.

I don't criticize people, but sins.

Look you and I are not going to agree on this.

You seem to think that because someone has a baby and decides to give away all of the responsibility of raising that child to someone else as opposed to murdering the child that makes them a good person. Sorry, I can't agree with that.

[PrayerWarrior61]

No I just answered it. In case it wasn't clear the answer was NO.

I don't criticize people, but sins.

Look you and I are not going to agree on this.

You seem to think that because someone has a baby and decides to give away all of the responsibility of raising that child to someone else as opposed to murdering the child that makes them a good person. Sorry, I can't agree with that.

Come on if you use societies views on the whole issue then they are saints!

It used to be that to get pregnant out of wedlock was absolutely out of the question. Now it is not, hence the increase in children up for adoption and more unwed mothers on welfare.

[Jesuslove]

No I just answered it. In case it wasn't clear the answer was NO.

I don't criticize people, but sins.

Look you and I are not going to agree on this.

You seem to think that because someone has a baby and decides to give away all of the responsibility of raising that child to someone else as opposed to murdering the child that makes them a good person. Sorry, I can't agree with that.

Not what I said at all. Adoption is often an act of love by the birthparent. Adoption is almost always the better alternative to abortion.

[Jesuslove]

Come on if you use societies views on the whole issue then they are saints!

Whether we agree with out of wedlock births or not, the children created are all children of God.

[Musicdude]

Not what I said at all. Adoption is often an act of love by the birthparent. Adoption is almost always the better alternative to abortion.

That is why I say we will never agree. I believe abortion is never an option to even be considered.
Again comparing adoption to murder certainly will make it look good by comparison, but I don't use abortion as my standard as apparently you do.

[cheewiee]

Whether we agree with out of wedlock births or not, the children created are all children of God.

No... we are not children of God, until we are in a relationship with God, through Christ, Jesus.

[PrayerWarrior61]

Whether we agree with out of wedlock births or not, the children created are all children of God.

Didn't say they weren't.

Still what gauge do you use to measure the merit of adoption and abortion?

[Musicdude]

Whether we agree with out of wedlock births or not, the children created are all children of God.

No they are not. Children of God are the redeemed.

[Jesuslove]

That is why I say we will never agree. I believe abortion is never an option to even be considered.

But then you turn around and judge parents for putting kids up for adoption. And then you further suggest if they prayed more, they'd be able to provide for these children and adoption would become obsolete.

[Musicdude]

But then you turn around and judge parents for putting kids up for adoption. And then you further suggest if they prayed more, they'd be able to provide for these children and adoption would become obsolete.

I judged a sin not a person.

And I only told you what the bible says.

You never answered me when I asked if you believed those verses I quoted.

[Jesuslove]

I judged a sin not a person.

And I only told you what the bible says.

You never answered me when I asked if you believed those verses I quoted.

which.. you quoted so many. And in which context related to the discussion?

[Musicdude]

which.. you quoted so many.

Do you not believe them all?



I was referring to the ones that make it clear that God will provide the needs of those who genuinely seek Him.

[cheewiee]

Do you not believe them all?

I doubt you will get a straight answer...

[Jesuslove]

Do you not believe them all?

if you have a specific one, I'll respond. But you quoted many.

[Musicdude]

if you have a specific one, I'll respond. But you quoted many.

Check again. I edited my post.

But I'll throw this one out there as well.

Mat 6:31 "Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?'
Mat 6:32 "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
Mat 6:33 "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

[PrayerWarrior61]

if you have a specific one, I'll respond. But you quoted many.

You are a Christian right? If it is between the front and back covers of the book called the "Bible" you should believe them all!!

That was a very absurd answer!!

[Jesuslove]

Check again. I edited my post.

But I'll throw this one out there as well.

Mat 6:31 "Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?'
Mat 6:32 "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
Mat 6:33 "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Yes

[Musicdude]

Yes

So these people aren't really that hopeless afterall, are they?

[Jesuslove]

You are a Christian right? If it is between the front and back covers of the book called the "Bible" you should believe them all!!

That was a very absurd answer!!

Not absurd. I believe in the Bible, however the way I interpret verses may differ from someone else. Doesn't mean one is absolutely right and the other is absolutely wrong.

[cheewiee]

Not absurd. I believe in the Bible, however the way I interpret verses may differ from someone else. Doesn't mean one is absolutely right and the other is absolutely wrong.

He didn't give you interpretations, he gave you straight up verses....

[PrayerWarrior61]

Not absurd. I believe in the Bible, however the way I interpret verses may differ from someone else. Doesn't mean one is absolutely right and the other is absolutely wrong.

There was no interpretation to the quoted Scripture so there is no difference. The verses are absolutely RIGHT! Always!!

[Jesuslove]

There was no interpretation to the quoted Scripture so there is no difference. The verses are absolutely RIGHT! Always!!

Look, he was quoting scripture to defend a point. I may or may not disagree with his interpretation. I wasn't suggesting I don't believe in the Bible or scripture. I was questioning interpretation and how it related to our discussion. If I misspoke, I apologize.

[Jesuslove]

He didn't give you interpretations, he gave you straight up verses....

Yes, but it was in the context of the discussion. If I misspoke, I apologize.

[Musicdude]

Look, he was quoting scripture to defend a point. I may or may not disagree with his interpretation. I wasn't suggesting I don't believe in the Bible or scripture. I was questioning interpretation and how it related to our discussion. If I misspoke, I apologize.

Why does this verse need interpretation? I think it is pretty plain and clear.

Mat 6:31 "Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?'
Mat 6:32 "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
Mat 6:33 "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

I can sum up what it says to me, but I am not interpreting it. I am only reading it.

In summary.

Why are you worrying about the physical things of this world? Don't you know that your Father in Heaven loves you and cares about you, and He knows you need all these things like food and clothing and whatever else? Focus your attention on Him, and doing His will and let Him worry about these physical things. He will provide them for you.

Do you get something else from reading that scripture?



My point was that God will provide for those who seek Him. I believe these verses prove that. Do you agree?

[PrayerWarrior61]

Look, he was quoting scripture to defend a point. I may or may not disagree with his interpretation. I wasn't suggesting I don't believe in the Bible or scripture. I was questioning interpretation and how it related to our discussion. If I misspoke, I apologize.

True he was quoting Scripture to defend a point. He did not interpret the verse so as to give you an explanation of what it said. In this instance the only question that may arise is context. Contextually it was to the point and not broken nor twisted in any way.

The Word of God does not fail us and sometimes convicts us of our human nature. It does me. It also changes my ideas and actions accordingly when I am wrong. This is the truth and measure that we; as Christians, live by.

When we measure the act of abortion it is murder in the first degree. We measure this by the Bible.

When we measure the act of giving our children up for adoption it is the act of unfaithfulness in God. We measure this by the Bible.

When we measure the act of pregnancy outside the bonds of marriage it is adultery. We measure this by the Bible.

We do not use the "bad" or "evil" of this world to measure the other "bad" or "evil" deeds. These so called "norms" change with each generation and we are not to use them nor become part of them.

With that being said let me say adoptive parents are without a doubt wonderful people and give so much of themselves to these children. My hat is off to them.

[Jesuslove]

My point was that God will provide for those who seek Him. I believe these verses prove that. Do you agree?

And what I said is that there are a lot of people in third world countries that can't make ends meet and have to give up children. Are we to believe that people in third world countries are non-believers?

[Jesuslove]

True he was quoting Scripture to defend a point. He did not interpret the verse so as to give you an explanation of what it said. In this instant the only question that may arise is context. Contextually it was to the point and not broken nor twisted in any way.
Go back and read my last post. He is interpreting what the words mean. I don't agree with what he said. Many people give up kids to adoption. Many of those people are people of God. Because God didn't provide for them to keep their children, does that mean they are not people of God? No.

When we measure the act of adoption it is the act of unfaithfulness in God. We measure this by the Bible.
Where is this in the Bible? Why is giving up one's child into adoption an act of unfaithfulness?

[PrayerWarrior61]

And what I said is that there are a lot of people in third world countries that can't make ends meet and have to give up children. Are we to believe that people in third world countries are non-believers?

Now that would just be subjective on anyone's part to say "yes" or "no". As an adoptive parent were you able to talk to the birth parents and ask questions of them?

We know what the Bible says to do but do all Christians actually do them? Sadly no. We are not judging the people putting the children up for adoption. We do see this as faithlessness. Will I point a finger? No. I do not know if they even know Jesus as their Lord and Savior but I would love to tell them about Him!

[PrayerWarrior61]

Go back and read my last post. He is interpreting what the words mean. I don't agree with what he said. Many people give up kids to adoption. Many of those people are people of God. Because God didn't provide for them to keep their children, does that mean they are not people of God? No.


Where is this in the Bible? Why is giving up one's child into adoption an act of unfaithfulness?

Mat 6:31 "Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?'
Mat 6:32 "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
Mat 6:33 "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

If you believe this Scripture and you stand in this life on His Word then you are faithful.

If you believe this Scripture and then waffle when temptation and/or hardships come your way then you are unfaithful to His Word. This does not mean Salvation nor Forgiveness is gone.

Did they pray? Did they receive answers? Did they follow God in this?

We Do Not Know!

Neither do you.

[Jesuslove]

Mat 6:31 "Do not worry then, saying, 'What will we eat?' or 'What will we drink?' or 'What will we wear for clothing?'
Mat 6:32 "For the Gentiles eagerly seek all these things; for your heavenly Father knows that you need all these things.
Mat 6:33 "But seek first His kingdom and His righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

If you believe this Scripture and you stand in this life on His Word then you are faithful.

If you believe this Scripture and then waffle when temptation and/or hardships come your way then you are unfaithful to His Word. This does not mean Salvation nor Forgiveness is gone.

Did they pray? Did they receive answers? Did they follow God in this?

We Do Not Know!

Neither do you.

What we know is this. There are many faithful people in third world countries and many who have to give their kids up for adoption. To suggest that those who choose to give up kids for adoption are all spiritually inept is crazy. Many who choose adoption cannot provide and feel that it would be best if the child were raised by someone who could. Adoption is a gift. You make it sound like it's a flaw or a curse.

[Musicdude]

And what I said is that there are a lot of people in third world countries that can't make ends meet and have to give up children. Are we to believe that people in third world countries are non-believers?

So you are trying to use circumstances to disprove what God said?
You say "what we know is this" and then proceed to tell me about a circumstance. You are wrong. What we know is this, God's word is true, period! No circumstance could ever prove otherwise. You see I am looking at this circumstance through the lense of knowing that God's word is true. I am not so sure you are.

That verse didn't say if you are a believer God will provide all those things. It said if you "seek His kingdom and His righteousness FIRST" then He will provide all those things. It takes more than just being a believer.

But to answer your question. I don't know. Maybe they are all unbelievers. It's possible.

[Jesuslove]

So you are trying to use circumstances to disprove what God said?
You say "what we know is this" and then proceed to tell me about a circumstance. You are wrong. What we know is this, God's word is true, period! No circumstance could ever prove otherwise. You see I am looking at this circumstance through the lense of knowing that God's word is true. I am not so sure you are.

That verse didn't say if you are a believer God will provide all those things. It said if you "seek His kingdom and His righteousness FIRST" then He will provide all those things. It takes more than just being a believer.

But to answer your question. I don't know. Maybe they are all unbelievers. It's possible.

I'm not denying the Bible. I'm suggesting your interpretation is a bit misguided. You are still suggesting that someone who gives a kid up for adoption is somehow flawed. That's what I'm reading from you.

[PrayerWarrior61]

What we know is this. There are many faithful people in third world countries and many who have to give their kids up for adoption. To suggest that those who choose to give up kids for adoption are all spiritually inept is crazy. Many who choose adoption cannot provide and feel that it would be best if the child were raised by someone who could. Adoption is a gift. You make it sound like it's a flaw or a curse.

No we don't. Neither do you.

Didn't say inept. You did.

I am not saying there are those who feel it better to put the child up for adoption for the children's sake.

Adoption on the adoptive end is a gift. If we as a Church; the Body of Christ, did more then we would not need to put our children up for adoption. I am at fault to a certain extent in the giving department' however I did not create the child in need.

The giving up out of convenience; not need, is the flaw! And there is a lot of that also.

[Jesuslove]

Adoption on the adoptive end is a gift. If we as a Church; the Body of Christ, did more then we would not need to put our children up for adoption. I am at fault to a certain extent in the giving department' however I did not create the child in need.
Adoption is a gift for everyone involved. Again, you speak of adoption as if it is a secondary consideration. "If we only did more....." Adoption isn't a bad choice. In most instances, it's not a wrong. Often, circumstances warrant a child be placed for adoption, whether it's economics, the health of the parents, etc. Adoption is a blessing all the way around.

[Musicdude]

I'm not denying the Bible. I'm suggesting your interpretation is a bit misguided. You are still suggesting that someone who gives a kid up for adoption is somehow flawed. That's what I'm reading from you.

Ok, then for the second time. I have given you my interpretation of Matthew 6:31-33. I take it to mean if we make God our priority, He will supply all of our needs.

If you "interpret" it in some other way. Then it would be helpful if you would tell me what it means to you.

[lilmikey]

What we know is this. There are many faithful people in third world countries and many who have to give their kids up for adoption. To suggest that those who choose to give up kids for adoption are all spiritually inept is crazy. Many who choose adoption cannot provide and feel that it would be best if the child were raised by someone who could. Adoption is a gift. You make it sound like it's a flaw or a curse.

In a sense it is a flaw and a curse because if Adam had not sinned and flawed and cursed us all there would be no need for adoption. Because everyone would be doing things God's way. Thank God for adoption, but I also thank God I live in the U.S too as flawed and wicked as it is.

One should also thank God for their job even though working is a curse. One should also thank God for the air that they breath even though it is flawed a cursed.

If I understand correctly no one here is saying that adoption is wrong what we are saying is that people who give their children up for adoption dont always do it for the right reason

[PrayerWarrior61]

Adoption is a gift for everyone involved. Again, you speak of adoption as if it is a secondary consideration. "If we only did more....." Adoption isn't a bad choice. In most instances, it's not a wrong. Often, circumstances warrant a child be placed for adoption, whether it's economics, the health of the parents, etc. Adoption is a blessing all the way around.

I will say in some cases, it may be more than 50% or less than 50% I don't know and is only subjective on our part to assume "most" is true.

The first choice is to not be pregnant, in the case of unwed mothers. The second is to raise your child. The third and last option is adoption.

[Jesuslove]

I will say in some cases, it may be more than 50% or less than 50% I don't know and is only subjective on our part to assume "most" is true.

The first choice is to not be pregnant, in the case of unwed mothers. The second is to raise your child. The third and last option is adoption.

Families sometimes give up kids for adoption. I said nothing about unwed mothers. There are a whole host of reasons kids are given up for adoption I think most mothers give up kids out of love for the child...knowing the child will have a better life elsewhere. Adoption is certainly better than the alternative.

[Jesuslove]

Ok, then for the second time. I have given you my interpretation of Matthew 6:31-33. I take it to mean if we make God our priority, He will supply all of our needs.

If you "interpret" it in some other way. Then it would be helpful if you would tell me what it means to you.

God provides for people in different ways. Providing material goods is only one way. God may provide women the strength to make difficult choices, like choosing to give a child up for adoption.

[Musicdude]

God provides for people in different ways. Providing material goods is only one way. God may provide women the strength to make difficult choices, like choosing to give a child up for adoption.

God provides us with many things. But the verse I quoted is talking about physical needs, such as food and clothing.

Do you or do you not agree with the idea that God will provide the basic physical needs of people who seek Him first?

Please just say yes or no, and don't answer me with another question.

[Jesuslove]

God provides us with many things. But the verse I quoted is talking about physical needs, such as food and clothing.

Do you or do you not agree with the idea that God will provide the basic physical needs of people who seek Him first?

Please just say yes or no, and don't answer me with another question.

It's not that cut and dry in my opinion. I have traveled to 37 countries and I've seen some horrible situations where people lack basic needs, yet are among the most pious.

If we are true to God, God is true to us. I believe that. I believe he cares for us. But the way God cares for me, may be very different than the way he cares for another. My needs may be very different than my neighbor.

But maybe you can tell me..... why do people in third world countries of faith, have less food, clothing, etc. than say non-believers in America? And how extensively have you traveled around the world?

[bholdj]

You cannot survive a marriage without having a good sense of humor.

amen!!!!

[bholdj]

God will show favor to those who do what is right. You keep saying they can't provide. There is no such thing as "can't" with God. You should know that.

God will provide.



Yea but not if the mom is an idiot. My son was taken from his real mom cause she coudn't stay off the drugs.

[Jesuslove]

Yea but not if the mom is an idiot. My son was taken from his real mom cause she coudn't stay off the drugs.

Two things....

there are all kinds of situations in which a parent cannot provide for a child. To me, the reason is irrevelant. I tend not to judge the reason.

Second..just a note... you referenced the term "real mom". I'm not sure what that means. Do you mean bio-mom? People in the adoption community find terms like "real mom" or questions like, "is he/she yours?" offensive. Biology does not make a person a fit parent.

[bholdj]

Two things....

there are all kinds of situations in which a parent cannot provide for a child. To me, the reason is irrevelant. I tend not to judge the reason.

Second..just a note... you referenced the term "real mom". I'm not sure what that means. Do you mean bio-mom? People in the adoption community find terms like "real mom" or questions like, "is he/she yours?" offensive. Biology does not make a person a fit parent.

1. Its relevant when he can't use his left arm because he suffered a stroke that was induced by the mothers smoking of meth, cocaine, etc while he was in her belly. The biological moms choices to harm my adoptive son with drugs to fit her addictions speak volumes about her.

Harsh? Yes. But then again, so is my sons thearpy treatments that he will problably need for life because of her lack of control.

2. I agree. I did mean Biological mom. We go to the judge next month to get this thing done and Im learning evreyday what is acceptable and whats not in the adoption community.

edit: By the way, how ya doing? :)

[Jesuslove]

1. Its relevant when he can't use his left arm because he suffered a stroke that was induced by the mothers smoking of meth, cocaine, etc while he was in her belly. The biological moms choices to harm my adoptive son with drugs to fit her addictions speak volumes about her.

Harsh? Yes. But then again, so is my sons thearpy treatments that he will problably need for life because of her lack of control.

2. I agree. I did mean Biological mom. We go to the judge next month to get this thing done and Im learning evreyday what is acceptable and whats not in the adoption community.

edit: By the way, how ya doing? :)

doin' well Thanks!! My son is well. We're headed to the beach tonight for a quick weekend away. and you?

[bholdj]

doin' well Thanks!! My son is well. We're headed to the beach tonight for a quick weekend away. and you?

I love the beach!!!!! My son Evan is being silly and won't go to bed, so i think im going to go for a run with him to make him sleepy.

Be praying for me, Im hoping to land a teaching job were I love so I can be closer to him. But its not looking like it will happen.

Just pray that Gods will be done :)

[Jesuslove]

I love the beach!!!!! My son Evan is being silly and won't go to bed, so i think im going to go for a run with him to make him sleepy.

Be praying for me, Im hoping to land a teaching job were I love so I can be closer to him. But its not looking like it will happen.

Just pray that Gods will be done :)

Absolutely, consider it done. Good luck!!

[Musicdude]

It's not that cut and dry in my opinion. I have traveled to 37 countries and I've seen some horrible situations where people lack basic needs, yet are among the most pious.

If we are true to God, God is true to us. I believe that. I believe he cares for us. But the way God cares for me, may be very different than the way he cares for another. My needs may be very different than my neighbor.

But maybe you can tell me..... why do people in third world countries of faith, have less food, clothing, etc. than say non-believers in America? And how extensively have you traveled around the world?

Because freedom and capitolism promote prosperity. Plain and simple. And because God has blessed America from it's inception because of it's commitment to God. But that is changing.

But back to your statement. God provides in different ways for different people I agree with that. But everyone on the face of the earth needs food and water to live, and they need clothing to wear. Is that not a true statement? And so those are the most basic requirements that we as humans have. And that is what God promised to provide those who seek Him first. He didn't promise an Escalade with 26 inch spinner rims. He promised the basics of life. Would that not include food and drink and clothing for your baby? I say it would. So if someone (regardless of gender, race or location) doesn't have those basic necessities of life, then I can logically and biblically assume that they aren't seeking God first, can I not?

[Musicdude]

Yea but not if the mom is an idiot. My son was taken from his real mom cause she coudn't stay off the drugs.

Change "couldn't" to "wouldn't" and I'll agree with that.

With God all things are possible.

[PrayerWarrior61]

Families sometimes give up kids for adoption. I said nothing about unwed mothers. There are a whole host of reasons kids are given up for adoption I think most mothers give up kids out of love for the child...knowing the child will have a better life elsewhere. Adoption is certainly better than the alternative.

Highlighted area is subjective. Please give facts. So far I have looked and found no source that will support your thoughts of "most".

And again you seem to think the opposite of adoption is abortion. I see the opposite of adoption as being with their families.

[bholdj]

Change "couldn't" to "wouldn't" and I'll agree with that.

With God all things are possible.

Agreed. Yet God time and time again gave sinners away to their addictions (Romans 1). Evidence in her cause suggests the same thing. Pledge to get clean, then fall right back into relapse. Only the latest relapse cost her.

[Jesuslove]

Because freedom and capitolism promote prosperity. Plain and simple. And because God has blessed America from it's inception because of it's commitment to God. But that is changing.

But back to your statement. God provides in different ways for different people I agree with that. But everyone on the face of the earth needs food and water to live, and they need clothing to wear. Is that not a true statement? And so those are the most basic requirements that we as humans have. And that is what God promised to provide those who seek Him first. He didn't promise an Escalade with 26 inch spinner rims. He promised the basics of life. Would that not include food and drink and clothing for your baby? I say it would. So if someone (regardless of gender, race or location) doesn't have those basic necessities of life, then I can logically and biblically assume that they aren't seeking God first, can I not?

So you're saying, God loves Americans more than he loves Mexicans. Most poor Americans, regardless of religious beliefs or their ability to put God first, are wealthier than Mexicans, who often are devout Christians. Over 1% of all children born in Guatemala are put up for adoption due to economic conditions. I've seen firsthand the deep beliefs of the Guatemalan people, yet their needs aren't met, and they have to give their children up. Yet, there are wealthy non-believers in America who have no struggles to have their needs met. I struggle with this.

One thing I do know is that God blessed us with President Obama. PTL!

And how many countries have you been to?

[Jesuslove]

Highlighted area is subjective. Please give facts. So far I have looked and found no source that will support your thoughts of "most".

And again you seem to think the opposite of adoption is abortion. I see the opposite of adoption as being with their families.

Families put kids up for adoption because they cannot handle or support a child, or children. Often, remaining with the birthfamily is not an option. So the opposite adoption - remaining with families - is often not possible.

how familiar are you with the adoption process? have you adopted any children?

[Musicdude]

So you're saying, God loves Americans more than he loves Mexicans. Most poor Americans, regardless of religious beliefs or their ability to put God first, are wealthier than Mexicans, who often are devout Christians. Over 1% of all children born in Guatemala are put up for adoption due to economic conditions. I've seen firsthand the deep beliefs of the Guatemalan people, yet their needs aren't met, and they have to give their children up. Yet, there are wealthy non-believers in America who have no struggles to have their needs met. I struggle with this.

One thing I do know is that God blessed us with President Obama. PTL!

And how many countries have you been to?

God loving you is not the only reason for prosperity. There are plenty of rich unbelievers. Again, I'm not talking about prosperity or wealth. I'm talking about food, clothing and shelter. That could be a bug to eat, pond water to drink and a tree to sit under for all I know. But it's enough to raise a kid.

I don't care how many countries you've been to. It doesn't disprove the word of God. You can't know first hand the beliefs of anyone (including the Guatemalans.) Only a person himself/herself and God can know their own beliefs.

[Musicdude]

Families put kids up for adoption because they WILL NOT handle or support a child, or children. Often, remaining with the birthfamily is not an option. So the opposite adoption - remaining with families - is often not possible.

how familiar are you with the adoption process? have you adopted any children?

There. Fixed it!

[lilmikey]

There. Fixed it!

yup agreed

[Jason]

God loving you is not the only reason for prosperity. There are plenty of rich unbelievers. Again, I'm not talking about prosperity or wealth. I'm talking about food, clothing and shelter. That could be a bug to eat, pond water to drink and a tree to sit under for all I know. But it's enough to raise a kid.


Indeed.

[Jason]

Your son's birth mother is not in his life on a day-to-day basis so he doesn't experience the love of a mother.

And I'm not sure where you're getting your facts. My dad was only married twice and the second marriage was only for six months. I only met her once.

And notice that I've been using the phrase "loving parents" and not just "parents."

How do you know the facts regarding my son's Mom? In fact, she does have contact with me and him. She also has two other children she struggles to care for. At least my son has stability and doesn't have to deal with divorce/remarriage/step-parents, etc.

Is she in his life on a daily basis? If not, I didn't get my facts wrong. Unlike you did thinking my dad was married thrice.

[lilmikey]

Is she in his life on a daily basis? If not, I didn't get my facts wrong. Unlike you did thinking my dad was married thrice.

thrice is such an epic word:D :D :D

[ausgirl]

An epic word for an epicly riduculous thread! I can not believe how when certain people choose to post, it always turns into a never ending attempt to make others believe they are right.



Now, I did post right back in the beginning - given I am single and female and desiring to be a mother too - I am well qualified to give my opinion and this is it:

God designed children to be the fruit of a marriage - whether there are children needing adoption or not, this is how God intended it.
God designed the woman to be the chief carer of those children, that's why he made us soft and nuturing (and possibly more patient) than men (oh and able to tolerate pain more).
God also requires us to work for our living - the husband is ment to provide this income.

So,, until such time as God provides my husband, I will not become the mother of any children.

How I feel on the topic, no amount of debating will convince me otherwise.

[PrayerWarrior61]

Families put kids up for adoption because they cannot handle or support a child, or children. Often, remaining with the birthfamily is not an option. So the opposite adoption - remaining with families - is often not possible.

how familiar are you with the adoption process? have you adopted any children?

Not familiar. So no.

[Musicdude]

An epic word for an epicly riduculous thread! I can not believe how when certain people choose to post, it always turns into a never ending attempt to make others believe they are right.



Now, I did post right back in the beginning - given I am single and female and desiring to be a mother too - I am well qualified to give my opinion and this is it:

God designed children to be the fruit of a marriage - whether there are children needing adoption or not, this is how God intended it.
God designed the woman to be the chief carer of those children, that's why he made us soft and nuturing (and possibly more patient) than men (oh and able to tolerate pain more).
God also requires us to work for our living - the husband is ment to provide this income.

So,, until such time as God provides my husband, I will not become the mother of any children.

How I feel on the topic, no amount of debating will convince me otherwise.

I don't think any of us disagree with what you just said.

I think people who adopt children are some of the most generous people in the world, and what better way to illustrate the love of God could there possible be?

My wife and I have been considering adopting for a while now. We wanted to have at least one child of our own (which we did), but then we are seriously considering adopting the next one.

[Jesuslove]

Is she in his life on a daily basis? If not, I didn't get my facts wrong. Unlike you did thinking my dad was married thrice.

twice? thrice? does it matter? he was divorced/remarried. I'm sure that was traumatic for you. Was your Dad in your life on a daily basis??

My son's Mom has a positive role in his life.

[Jesuslove]

An epic word for an epicly riduculous thread! I can not believe how when certain people choose to post, it always turns into a never ending attempt to make others believe they are right.



Now, I did post right back in the beginning - given I am single and female and desiring to be a mother too - I am well qualified to give my opinion and this is it:

God designed children to be the fruit of a marriage - whether there are children needing adoption or not, this is how God intended it.
God designed the woman to be the chief carer of those children, that's why he made us soft and nuturing (and possibly more patient) than men (oh and able to tolerate pain more).
God also requires us to work for our living - the husband is ment to provide this income.

So,, until such time as God provides my husband, I will not become the mother of any children.

How I feel on the topic, no amount of debating will convince me otherwise.

Good for you. Your family will be perfect, I'm sure. :D

[Musicdude]

twice? thrice? does it matter? he was divorced/remarried. I'm sure that was traumatic for you. Was your Dad in your life on a daily basis??

My son's Mom has a positive role in his life.

Would you not agree that it would've been better had you and Mrs. been able to work things out? Better for you and for your kids?

[Jesuslove]

Would you not agree that it would've been better had you and Mrs. been able to work things out? Better for you and for your kids?

No. Not possible. And I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.

[Musicdude]

No. Not possible. And I'm not quite sure what you're talking about.


Mat 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

But it doesn't matter because I didn't ask you if it were possible. I asked you if it would've been better for you and your kids.

[Jesuslove]

Mat 19:26 And looking at them Jesus said to them, "With people this is impossible, but with God all things are possible."

But it doesn't matter because I didn't ask you if it were possible. I asked you if it would've been better for you and your kids.

It's not possible. We were never together. My son is fine. He's better off than he would have been had he remained with his mother.

[Musicdude]

It's not possible. We were never together. My son is fine. He's better off than he would have been had he remained with his mother.

Ok, I got into the discussion late. I didn't realize you weren't his biological father.
Forgive me for assuming.

[Jesuslove]

Ok, I got into the discussion late. I didn't realize you weren't his biological father.
Forgive me for assuming.

I'm an adoptive single parent. My son's birthmom lives abroad in a third world country... hence, my passion for the subject of parenting, single parenting, adoption, etc.

[Musicdude]

I'm an adoptive single parent. My son's birthmom lives abroad in a third world country... hence, my passion for the subject of parenting, single parenting, adoption, etc.

Like you I am all for adoption.

But it is a very loving solution to a problem that should not exist if parents were responsible.

[lilmikey]

Like you I am all for adoption.

But it is a very loving solution to a problem that should not exist if parents were responsible.

Hence my everything is flawed point.

[ausgirl]

I don't think any of us disagree with what you just said.

I think people who adopt children are some of the most generous people in the world, and what better way to illustrate the love of God could there possible be?

My wife and I have been considering adopting for a while now. We wanted to have at least one child of our own (which we did), but then we are seriously considering adopting the next one.
But you and your wife - that's my point, no just you, or a single person.

[middletree]

I get it James. I think marriage is a serious topic. Obviously you think the sanctity of marriage is a joke.

Did you say this? Seriously? What a ridiculous thing to say.

[Jesuslove]

Did you say this? Seriously? What a ridiculous thing to say.

Lighten up James... Have you NO sense of humor?

[lilmikey]

Lighten up James... Have you NO sense of humor?

that didn't sound like a joke to me. I fail to see the humour. I know you didn't address that to me but still...

[Jesuslove]

that didn't sound like a joke to me. I fail to see the humour. I know you didn't address that to me but still...

read through the entire thread and maybe you'll get it.. maybe...

[middletree]

read through the entire thread and maybe you'll get it.. maybe...

Dude, I made a lighthearted remark, at the point in the thread in which it was still light-hearted, and you tell me that by doing so, I think marriage is a joke? Whatever, man.

[Jesuslove]

Dude, I made a lighthearted remark, at the point in the thread in which it was still light-hearted, and you tell me that by doing so, I think marriage is a joke? Whatever, man.

Gheesh, when someone jokes with you, you don't get it, then you get mad. Lighten up James!!

[PrayerWarrior61]

Jesuslove you asked if I had ever gone through the adoption process. Answer is no. Hence the answer to have I ever adopted is no.

[Musicdude]

But you and your wife - that's my point, no just you, or a single person.

I don't object to a single person adopting a child. I think it's better for the child to have both a mother and a father. But one parent is better than none.

[Musicdude]

Gheesh, when someone jokes with you, you don't get it, then you get mad. Lighten up James!!

But none of us got it. It seemed like you were just irritated at middletree and picking on him for making a joke. It didn't seem like you were joking back.

[Jesuslove]

But none of us got it. It seemed like you were just irritated at middletree and picking on him for making a joke. It didn't seem like you were joking back.

how is it you got James' joke, but failed to get mine. Oh well.

[Musicdude]

how is it you got James' joke, but failed to get mine. Oh well.

I'm gonna be nice here, but you really set yourself up for that one. lol

I guess I've seen his attempts at humor more than yours so I can tell when he's joking. I've actually never seen you even try to be funny, so I didn't really know what to expect.

If you say you were joking, I'll take your word for it. But just understand that to most of us, it didn't seem that way.

[Musicdude]

how is it you got James' joke, but failed to get mine. Oh well.

And by the way. Thank you for adopting a child. I think that is a very generous and loving thing to do.

I think as I said before the ideal situation is to have a mother and a father, and I do believe that God designed the family as such. And I think the main reason is that women have what men don't, and vice versa. And raising children from birth to adulthood is a very challenging task. It will test your patience, your love, your wisdom, your perseverance, etc to the limits. And when you have a loving partner who knows you better than anyone else, and can tell when you are almost to the point of insanity, they can take over and give you some rest. And there are things about the child that one parent can handle better than the other, and other things that the other parent handles better. And as a team you will be consistently less frustrated and more patient with the child than you would be going at it alone.

There are people who do this alone, and they rise to the challenge, and do an excellent job. But if any of those people even experienced raising their child with the help of a loving partner, they would have to admit that it's much easier that way. And since you are not stressed out as much, and tired, your child gets the benefits of a rested, sane, well-adjusted parent more often than if you were going at it alone.

[Jesuslove]

I think as I said before the idea situation is to have a mother and a father, and I do believe that God designed the family as such. And I think the main reason is that women have what men don't, and vice versa.

I agree with most of what you said, except this. I don't think there are defined roles for men and women in parenting. I've seen some women who are disciplinarians, but mostly men. I've seen some nurturing men, and some cold women. I don't think male/female roles are absolute. I think having 2 parents is easier than having one, however, with God, anything is possible.

[Musicdude]

I agree with most of what you said, except this. I don't think there are defined roles for men and women in parenting. I've seen some women who are disciplinarians, but mostly men. I've seen some nurturing men, and some cold women. I don't think male/female roles are absolute. I think having 2 parents is easier than having one, however, with God, anything is possible.

I didn't really mean it that way. And anyway I was speaking generally. There are always exceptions.

[Jason]

twice? thrice? does it matter? he was divorced/remarried. I'm sure that was traumatic for you. Was your Dad in your life on a daily basis??

My son's Mom has a positive role in his life.

My dad was not in my life on a daily basis and I suffered for it. Just as most children do who do not have two loving parents in their life on a daily basis.

[Jesuslove]

My dad was not in my life on a daily basis and I suffered for it. Just as most children do who do not have two loving parents in their life on a daily basis.

I can imagine your pain Jason. It must have been tough as a boy not having a Dad in the picture. It must have been tough having parents who were divorced. It must have been tough trying to explain in school why your parents are divorced. Fortunately, my son is very well adjusted and doesn't have to deal with those issues.

[Jason]

I can imagine your pain Jason. It must have been tough as a boy not having a Dad in the picture. It must have been tough having parents who were divorced. It must have been tough trying to explain in school why your parents are divorced. Fortunately, my son is very well adjusted and doesn't have to deal with those issues.

No, but he has to deal with not having two loving parents in his life on a daily basis. He may seem well-adjusted now, but I believe he's under the age of six. Am I right? Wait until he's a teen. Trust me, for your son's sake, I hope I'm wrong.

The most loving moments between a parent and a child come from the ordinary moments in day-to-day interactions, not during the scheduled calls or visits.

[Jesuslove]

No, but he has to deal with not having two loving parents in his life on a daily basis. He may seem well-adjusted now, but I believe he's under the age of six. Am I right? Wait until he's a teen. Trust me, for your son's sake, I hope I'm wrong.

The most loving moments between a parent and a child come from the ordinary moments in day-to-day interactions, not during the scheduled calls or visits.

No, he's six now, and he's fairly well adjusted. Parents do the best job they can. It's not easy. I've seen single parents raise well rounded children, and I've seen married couples raise nightmarish children. There is only so much a parent can control. While I'll admit that it's easier with two parents, it's no guarantee of success.

[PrayerWarrior61]

No, he's six now, and he's fairly well adjusted. Parents do the best job they can. It's not easy. I've seen single parents raise well rounded children, and I've seen married couples raise nightmarish children. There is only so much a parent can control. While I'll admit that it's easier with two parents, it's no guarantee of success.

I must agree with you there!!

[Musicdude]

While I'll admit that it's easier with two parents, it's no guarantee of success.

I don't think Jason or anyone else said it was a gaurantee of success.

Divorce will cause baggage, even if it doesn't show now, it will later. Is that the end of the world? No. Can Jesus heal it? Absolutely. But He'll have it to do.

[Jesuslove]

Divorce will cause baggage, even if it doesn't show now, it will later. Is that the end of the world? No. Can Jesus heal it? Absolutely. But He'll have it to do.

Agreed, divorce causes a lot of baggage. I'm grateful my son doesn't have that baggage to deal with.

[Musicdude]

Agreed, divorce causes a lot of baggage. I'm grateful my son doesn't have that baggage to deal with.

All I'm saying and all I think Jason is saying too is, don't be surprised if just because your son's baggage isn't apparent now, that it might show up later.
Divorce isn't the only thing that causes baggage. Growing up with one parent does that too. Finding out that you were adopted causes baggage also. Again, this may not even appear until he gets married one day. But it's there.

[Jason]

Agreed, divorce causes a lot of baggage. I'm grateful my son doesn't have that baggage to deal with.

True, but he has the baggage of being raised by a single father.

[Jesuslove]

All I'm saying and all I think Jason is saying too is, don't be surprised if just because your son's baggage isn't apparent now, that it might show up later.
Divorce isn't the only thing that causes baggage. Growing up with one parent does that too. Finding out that you were adopted causes baggage also. Again, this may not even appear until he gets married one day. But it's there.

Everything you said is a possibility; then again it's a possibility things will be fine. I don't think adoption will cause my son to have baggage. It's never been presented as a secret or a shameful thing to him. It's been presented as a source of pride. He understands that his Mom loves him. And his Mom has periodic contact, which I encourage.

[Jesuslove]

True, but he has the baggage of being raised by a single father.

Less than a boy being raised by a single Mom. Read up on it. Your homegirl Ann Coulter wrote a book about it. I bet it was particularly tough on you Jason.

[Musicdude]

Everything you said is a possibility; then again it's a possibility things will be fine. I don't think adoption will cause my son to have baggage. It's never been presented as a secret or a shameful thing to him. It's been presented as a source of pride. He understands that his Mom loves him. And his Mom has periodic contact, which I encourage.

It may not have been presented that way by you, but you aren't the only influence in his life.

Statistically, it causes baggage.

[Jesuslove]

It may not have been presented that way by you, but you aren't the only influence in his life.

Statistically, it causes baggage.

This has gotten way off topic. The thread isn't about the baggage of my son. It's about becoming a parent. I think I know my son well and he'll be fine. Socially, he's ahead of his class. I don't know what baggage your kid may have. Kids pick on kids if their parents are fat. There are all kinds of dysfunction. As parents, you do your best to minimize what you pass on to your child.

[Musicdude]

This has gotten way off topic. The thread isn't about the baggage of my son. It's about becoming a parent. I think I know my son well and he'll be fine. Socially, he's ahead of his class. I don't know what baggage your kid may have. Kids pick on kids if their parents are fat. There are all kinds of dysfunction. As parents, you do your best to minimize what you pass on to your child.

I didn't say he won't be fine. But it's nieve to think that adoption doesn't effect a child.

Anyway, any good thread gets off topic at some point. :)

[Jesuslove]

I didn't say he won't be fine. But it's nieve to think that adoption doesn't effect a child.

Anyway, any good thread gets off topic at some point. :)

You know adoption is how you present it. If a parent has a negative attitude about it, it will be perceived as negative. If you look at adoption and present it as a blessing, it will be viewed that way. Adoption isn't a bad thing. It's a blessing for those involved. I know many well-adjusted adopted children.

I know of all types of situations as well.... couples adopting, gays adopting, singles adopting, unmarried couples adopting...some that would blow your mind. For example, a gay family who lives near me (two guys), have adopted children that were removed from a two-parent heterosexual household. And the kids are being raised in a loving family with the support of their community. Those children will have opportunities in life they would have not had otherwise had they remained in their heterosexual two-parent household. To fathom that God would love those children enough to have them removed from their bio-parents and place them in a good home. Shows the power of God. So it's all about perspective.

[Musicdude]

You know adoption is how you present it. If a parent has a negative attitude about it, it will be perceived as negative. If you look at adoption and present it as a blessing, it will be viewed that way. Adoption isn't a bad thing. It's a blessing for those involved. I know many well-adjusted adopted children.

I know of all types of situations as well.... couples adopting, gays adopting, singles adopting, unmarried couples adopting...some that would blow your mind. For example, a gay family who lives near me (two guys), have adopted children that were removed from a two-parent heterosexual household. And the kids are being raised in a loving family with the support of their community. Those children will have opportunities in life they would have not had otherwise had they remained in their heterosexual two-parent household. To fathom that God would love those children enough to have them removed from their bio-parents and place them in a good home. Shows the power of God. So it's all about perspective.

The fact that there are homosexuals who do good things doesn't prove that homosexuality isn't sinful.


Look, you are arguing against a point I never made. I didn't say your son's life would be ruined because he was adopted. I just said a certain amount of baggage will be there as a result, regardless of how well you raise him. I stand by what I said. Everyone has baggage of some sort, so don't make what I said into a bigger deal that I didn't even imply. I'm done arguing with you about this.

[Jesuslove]

The fact that there are homosexuals who do good things doesn't prove that homosexuality isn't sinful.


Look, you are arguing against a point I never made. I didn't say your son's life would be ruined because he was adopted. I just said a certain amount of baggage will be there as a result, regardless of how well you raise him. I stand by what I said. Everyone has baggage of some sort, so don't make what I said into a bigger deal that I didn't even imply. I'm done arguing with you about this.

I'm telling you that you don't know my son will have baggage from being adopted any more than I know your child will have issues cause of your weight.

[Musicdude]

I'm telling you that you don't know my son will have baggage from being adopted any more than I know your child will have issues cause of your weight.

Back off girlfriend.

[Jesuslove]

Back off girlfriend.

:D

[bholdj]

I'm telling you that you don't know my son will have baggage from being adopted any more than I know your child will have issues cause of your weight.

Come now, I thought you were past this? :( :confused:

[bholdj]

Finding out that you were adopted causes baggage also. Again, this may not even appear until he gets married one day. But it's there.

See I think that depends.

I have an adopted son, and though i agree when he grows up he will have questions. I also think that Evan has the capacity to grow up knowing that who he is is not so much based on his family of origin, but who his Savior is.

In other words, to use your own words, nothings impossible with God. :D

I think Jesus agrees

Luke 11:27-28
27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

I don't think its much of a leap to say that identity in Christ is more important in the eyes of Jesus. If a parent raises a kid as such, baggage will not be an issue.

[Jesuslove]

See I think that depends.

I have an adopted son, and though i agree when he grows up he will have questions. I also think that Evan has the capacity to grow up knowing that who he is is not so much based on his family of origin, but who his Savior is.

In other words, to use your own words, nothings impossible with God. :D

I think Jesus agrees

Luke 11:27-28
27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

I don't think its much of a leap to say that identity in Christ is more important in the eyes of Jesus. If a parent raises a kid as such, baggage will not be an issue.

Agreed. I think for years there was a negative stereotype associated with adoption. Adoption was treated like a dirty little secret. Today, adoption is viewed by both parent and child as a blessing.

[Musicdude]

See I think that depends.

I have an adopted son, and though i agree when he grows up he will have questions. I also think that Evan has the capacity to grow up knowing that who he is is not so much based on his family of origin, but who his Savior is.

In other words, to use your own words, nothings impossible with God. :D

I think Jesus agrees

Luke 11:27-28
27 And it happened, as He spoke these things, that a certain woman from the crowd raised her voice and said to Him, “Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts which nursed You!”
28 But He said, “More than that, blessed are those who hear the word of God and keep it!”

I don't think its much of a leap to say that identity in Christ is more important in the eyes of Jesus. If a parent raises a kid as such, baggage will not be an issue.

But I never questioned whether or not God could take away the baggage. I just said, that He has it to do. Because knowing that your birth parents let you go (regardless of the reason) makes you feel rejected. Knowing that God is your Heavenly father and will never forsake you, definitely helps heal that feeling of rejection. But all I am saying is that at some point, an adopted child will have to deal with that.

I think JL and possibly you misunderstand what I mean by "baggage." I don't mean that it is a problem that can't be solved. I don't mean that it will necessarily effect the child his/her whold life. I just mean that it is an issue that needs to be dealt with. You can't just ignore it as if everything is perfectly normal. It isn't normal to be adopted. And that also can cause self-esteem, self-confidence issues. The child (hopefully saved) will have to learn, as you said, that his confidence and self-worth needs to come from God, not from men. Once he understands that, he will be fine. More than fine really. He will be a rock.

[Jesuslove]

But I never questioned whether or not God could take away the baggage. I just said, that He has it to do. Because knowing that your birth parents let you go (regardless of the reason) makes you feel rejected.
Maybe in your mind. I know many adopted children; some like my son have contact with a birthparent or birthparents. I am unaware of feelings of rejection, despite lengthy discussions. I think you have a very negative opinion of adoption.

It isn't normal to be adopted.
Normal? There is nothing unnatural about adoption. Whether or not you understand, your comments are perceived by those who have adopted, as insulting. Adoption is a blessing, and nothing to be ashamed of. My son often boasts about his nationality. Adoption used to be viewed as a social taboo. Today, adoption is viewed as a natural blessing.

[Musicdude]

Maybe in your mind. I know many adopted children; some like my son have contact with a birthparent or birthparents. I am unaware of feelings of rejection, despite lengthy discussions. I think you have a very negative opinion of adoption.


Normal? There is nothing unnatural about adoption. Whether or not you understand, your comments are perceived by those who have adopted, as insulting. Adoption is a blessing, and nothing to be ashamed of. My son often boasts about his nationality. Adoption used to be viewed as a social taboo. Today, adoption is viewed as a natural blessing.

Just forget it. You aren't even trying to understand what I'm saying.

[bholdj]

[QUOTE=Musicdude;1891879

I think JL and possibly you misunderstand what I mean by "baggage." I don't mean that it is a problem that can't be solved. I don't mean that it will necessarily effect the child his/her whold life. I just mean that it is an issue that needs to be dealt with. .[/QUOTE]

Absolutley. One day Evans going to wonder in his teen years why he dosen't look like daddy. Rhi and I hope the reaction is not to catistrophic but we are sure about one thing. Evan will be loved and cared for until that time and if we do it right, one wonders if questions will ever come up at all.

But I like the Lords reasoning "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God." hee hee

[Jesuslove]

Absolutley. One day Evans going to wonder in his teen years why he dosen't look like daddy. Rhi and I hope the reaction is not to catistrophic but we are sure about one thing. Evan will be loved and cared for until that time and if we do it right, one wonders if questions will ever come up at all.

But I like the Lords reasoning "Thou shalt not tempt the Lord your God." hee hee

With my son, I've been up front from the beginning. Although he looks like me and could pass for my biological child, we do not share the same ethnicity. There has been no secrets with my son. Prior to my adopting, a coworker gave me a piece of advice. He told me never to make adoption a secret. Always be open and completely honest. I have found that to be great advice. It's natural. And with my son, no questions are off limits. If you asked him to describe his family, he would talk about me, and he would talk about his Mother and siblings abroad. The more people that love a child, the better. And I've done everything to foster a relationship with the biological mother. It's been a win-win situation.

[lilmikey]

I agree with this. I know we hardly ever agree but you raise a good point. Getting ready for football season??? Your Eagles surprised me last season they came out of nowhere.

[bholdj]

With my son, I've been up front from the beginning. Although he looks like me and could pass for my biological child, we do not share the same ethnicity. There has been no secrets with my son. Prior to my adopting, a coworker gave me a piece of advice. He told me never to make adoption a secret. Always be open and completely honest. I have found that to be great advice. It's natural. And with my son, no questions are off limits. If you asked him to describe his family, he would talk about me, and he would talk about his Mother and siblings abroad. The more people that love a child, the better. And I've done everything to foster a relationship with the biological mother. It's been a win-win situation.

Don't get me wrong, i wanna be upfront. But at 2 years of age, im not real sure he would understand.

The time is coming though...

[hamlin1983]

I WAS adopted, and my mother's biologic children always made sure I knew I was adopted. But when I was about 10, I can to understand that adoption is a CHOICE the parents make, and I never felt bad about being adopted again, but actually I felt special about it. I was CHOSEN to be a member of this family. Sometimes I wonder about my biologic parents, especially now that I'm older and have some health issues to deal with, but basically, even if I did know them, it wouldn't change MY feelings about the family that chose me.

Just one other view on the whole adoption issue.

[PrayerWarrior61]

I have not adopted a child, but I have raised a child that was not my own.

I raised him from the time he was 3 and even though he is 27 now he knows me as DAD.

I am now raising another child as my own and she is 3 right now. I pray that it all goes as well!

[Jesuslove]

I have not adopted a child, but I have raised a child that was not my own.

I raised him from the time he was 3 and even though he is 27 now he knows me as DAD.

I am now raising another child as my own and she is 3 right now. I pray that it all goes as well!

Best wishes and congrats. As you know, having a baby is much different than being a parent.

[bholdj]

I WAS adopted, and my mother's biologic children always made sure I knew I was adopted. But when I was about 10, I can to understand that adoption is a CHOICE the parents make, and I never felt bad about being adopted again, but actually I felt special about it. I was CHOSEN to be a member of this family. Sometimes I wonder about my biologic parents, especially now that I'm older and have some health issues to deal with, but basically, even if I did know them, it wouldn't change MY feelings about the family that chose me.

Just one other view on the whole adoption issue.

Appreciate you saying that

[bholdj]

[QUOTE=Jesuslove;1891930. And with my son, no questions are off limits. If you asked him to describe his family, he would talk about me, and he would talk about his Mother and siblings abroad. The more people that love a child, the better. And I've done everything to foster a relationship with the biological mother. It's been a win-win situation.[/QUOTE]

One more note. The court has stated the biological mom cannot see Evan due to her neglect with the drugs, drinking, etc.

The court has also stated as of now, Evan has two siblings with two seperate fathers and the same mother. Talk about a mess :eek:

[PrayerWarrior61]

Best wishes and congrats. As you know, having a baby is much different than being a parent.

Yes I do. My youngest son is now 22 and my oldest daughter is 10, they are biologically mine.

No difference between any of the four. They are mine.