NFL Draft

[EyeHeart3D]

11 days till the draft!!! Woohoo!!! Are you ready for some FOOTBALL?!?!?!?! :D

[jrmitch]

Man, I don't know whether to be excited or scared about this draft. Having watched our new coach and GM completely shoot themselves in the foot with the Jay Cutler fiasco, I'm not exactly overwhelmed with confidence about their decision making ability. I'm trying hard to reserve judgment until I see what they do in the draft, but they've left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'm seriously considering not rooting for the Broncos this year and throwing my heart into the Bear pit instead.

[NotMyOwn]

I am always ready for the draft. I can't wait to see what the Steelers, and the Bears do.


As a side note I was happy today that when I got my drivers license renewed that the black and gold of my Steelers jacket showed up in the picture.

[Howlin' Wolf]

Man, I don't know whether to be excited or scared about this draft. Having watched our new coach and GM completely shoot themselves in the foot with the Jay Cutler fiasco, I'm not exactly overwhelmed with confidence about their decision making ability. I'm trying hard to reserve judgment until I see what they do in the draft, but they've left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'm seriously considering not rooting for the Broncos this year and throwing my heart into the Bear pit instead.


Jay Cutler is a pansy *** crybaby. Pro sports are a business and he has a losing record as a starter. The Broncos would be fools not to offer him, especially if they could have gotten Cassell and a draft pick! My Prediction: With the kid gloves off and the conservative offense behind him, Kyle Orton breaks out and has a pro bowl type year. Keep in mind, none of this has to do with the fact the Broncos havent addressed their inabilty to tackle.

[jrmitch]

Just curious if anyone else thinks that the lack of starts for Mark Sanchez of USC will be a liability for him (as I do).

An interesting stat came out during last years draft in that all of the star quarterbacks of the last couple of decades had a minimum of 30 starts in college. I took the time to go back and look at the background of every championship and all-pro quarterback for the last 40 years, and discovered that their average number of college starts was also 30. During that same 40 year period no one has played at that level with less than 25 career starts while in college. By comparison Sanchez has 16 starts at USC. I don't think Pete Carroll was just blowing smoke when he said that Sancez isn't ready for the NFL yet. Thoughts?

[Howlin' Wolf]

Just curious if anyone else thinks that the lack of starts for Mark Sanchez of USC will be a liability for him (as I do).

An interesting stat came out during last years draft in that all of the star quarterbacks of the last couple of decades had a minimum of 30 starts in college. I took the time to go back and look at the background of every championship and all-pro quarterback for the last 40 years, and discovered that their average number of college starts was also 30. During that same 40 year period no one has played at that level with less than 25 career starts while in college. By comparison Sanchez has 16 starts at USC. I don't think Pete Carroll was just blowing smoke when he said that Sancez isn't ready for the NFL yet. Thoughts?

I agree. Although, I think he could be pretty damn good in a couple years. Whichever team drafts him, cannot start him the next year.

[jrmitch]

Jay Cutler is a pansy *** crybaby. Pro sports are a business and he has a losing record as a starter. The Broncos would be fools not to offer him, especially if they could have gotten Cassell and a draft pick! My Prediction: With the kid gloves off and the conservative offense behind him, Kyle Orton breaks out and has a pro bowl type year. Keep in mind, none of this has to do with the fact the Broncos havent addressed their inabilty to tackle.Okay, first things first. Let's talk about that losing record as a starter. (Cutlers overall record as a starter was 17-20).

In 13 of those 20 losses the Bronco D gave up 30 or more points. (They also did likewise in 3 of Cutlers 17 wins, leaving Cutler with a record of 3-13 in those games). By comparison, in games where his team gave up more than 30 points Brett Favre - the winningest quarterback of all time - had a record of 7 wins and 39 losses. The guy who he passed as the winningest quarterback of all time - our own John Elway - won 5 and lost 38. Marino won 7 and lost 45; Montana won 5 and lost 18; and Peyton Manning has won 8 and lost 22. No quarterback in NFL history has won more games than they lost when their defense gave up so many points.

In 6 of the remaining 7 losses we scored between 21 and 30 points; Cutlers overall record in games where we gave up that many points was 3 and 6. The only Pro Bowl quarterback in the last 25 years who's won more of those kind of games than he's lost is Tom Brady; everyone else has joined Cutler in losing more games where their defense gave up a similar amount of points than they've won. And in games where the defense actually showed up and gave Cutler some help by allowing less than 21 points Cutler was 11-1 as a starter. So while it's early in his career Cutler has thus far held his own as long as he's gotten defensive support.

As far as the crybaby aspect goes there's certainly room to blame Cutler, but there's also a couple of key additional points. First, after Shanahan was fired owner Pat Bowlen publicly declared "This is Cutlers team". Before the aborted trade Cutler had also met with McDaniels and stated publicly that he had a good comfort level with McDaniels approach as a coach and was excited about working with him. Cutler also eventually admitted that he understood why McDaniels would want to pursue Cassell and specifically said "I understand that, and I have no problem with that". His problem wasn't the fact that they wanted to trade him for Cassell; it was that he felt that Mcdaniels and GM Brian Xanders had lied to him and not been honest with him during the entire process. As McDaniels himself made a couple of public statements about the situation that were later proven false I think there's some merit to Cutlers claim that the Broncos didn't deal honestly with him.

I'm not totally defending Jay; he certainly didn't handle the situation well. But neither did McDaniels; Xanders; or owner Pat Bowlen. Everyone has a share of the blame, and while I'd like to be hopeful you're right about Orton I didn't see anything in his performance in Chicago that leads me to believe that he'll be much better here (and believe me, I want you to be right and me to be wrong). But I see the bottom line here is that we've replaced a 25 year old pro-bowl quarterback with one guy who couldn't win more than 9 games with one of the best defenses in the league and another guy who hasn't played in 2 years and was only a part time starter before he got hurt. It's gonna be a loooong season here in Denver......:(

[danbos]

Keep in mind, none of this has to do with the fact the Broncos havent addressed their inabilty to tackle.

The acquisition of Brian Dawkins may possibly help on that front.

[jrmitch]

The acquisition of Brian Dawkins may possibly help on that front.I'm hopin'......but we still need serious help up front with our pass rush and run D; otherwise Dawkins'll be awfully busy. Hopefully we can use our two first round picks to address those issues. (Thanks for the picks, Chicago).

And I don't want to see us take either Sanchez or Stafford (both of who will probably already he gone by the time we pick at #12). I'd rather see us struggle with Orton and see if we can package one of next years #1 picks in order to get a shot at McCoy, Bradford (if he comes out early) or Tebow. I think all 3 of them have a better shot at success in the NFL than either Stafford or Sanchez.

[Howlin' Wolf]

Cutler needs to realize that he is an employee and an asset and has zero say in what his employer chooses to do with him. Yes, it was his team last year and was supposed to be his team for the next 12 years. He chose to take trade rumors personal. On all accounts Ive read, He met with McDaniels after the trade rumors and came away from the meeting demanding a trade and burning the bridge. So if he knew all along that Cassell was McDaniel's guy, what revelation did he come upon that made him so sour so quickly? Everything that Bowlen and McDaniels' have said since that first meeting was that they wanted him to be the guy, and Cutler has cried about some irreprable injustince done to him.

Now, I realize that most qb's have losing records when their defense is nothing more than a wet paper sack, but it warrants mentioning that the Bears defense was not the typical dominant defense that most people assume they were. They struggled mightily last year. keep in mind, they got to play the hapless Lion's twice and the Travaris Jackson-led Vikes twice, while the Broncos had a tough draw with the AFC and playing the NFC South, which IMO, was the strongest conference in the NFC last year.

Yet I digress. The Broncos, like always, will have a strong running game, they will have Brandon Marshall, and they now have a qb that knows how to win, even when his coach ties his hands and limits him through awesome Lovie Smith style playcalling. Remember, last summer Cassell was a nobody. Then in September, he was a nobody that was going to kill the patriots season. Then in November, he was the Pats hope for the playoffs. If you, as a broncos fan are going to doubt anybody, doubt McDaniels' ability to coach apart from Belicheck. Because so far, I'm not impressed with Weis, Crennell, or Mangina

[Howlin' Wolf]

I'm hopin'......but we still need serious help up front with our pass rush and run D; otherwise Dawkins'll be awfully busy. Hopefully we can use our two first round picks to address those issues. (Thanks for the picks, Chicago).

And I don't want to see us take either Sanchez or Stafford (both of who will probably already he gone by the time we pick at #12). I'd rather see us struggle with Orton and see if we can package one of next years #1 picks in order to get a shot at McCoy, Bradford (if he comes out early) or Tebow. I think all 3 of them have a better shot at success in the NFL than either Stafford or Sanchez.

Stafford and Sanchez are so overhyped, no way they drop out of the top 10. You guys should be able to get a stud defensive player at 12.

[jrmitch]

We'd better; lord knows we need it.

And I hear ya about doubting McDaniels ability to coach. Though he acted immature at least Cutler was a proven quantity on the field (though also arguably a work in progress). I have very serious doubts about both McDaniels as a coach and Xanders as a GM.

Oh, yeah - just to clarify about Cutler and McDaniels. When they initially met right after McDaniels was hired Cutler supposedly came away with the assurance that McDaniels was sold on keeping him as the QB; then when the stories broke about the proposed trade Cutler felt betrayed. After he stated that he had come to understand McDaniels thinking in wanting to acquire Cassell, Cutler said that his biggest problem wasn't the proposed trade itself, but that he felt that his ability to trust both McDaniels and GM Xanders had been irrepairebly broken because they had supposedly told him one thing and then given a completely different version of the situation to the local and national press. I'm certainly not saying that Jay was right in how he handled it, but I also don't understand why Bowlen didn't throw both of them into a locked room and tell them they couldn't come out until they'd resolved the situation. You can't exactly go out and pluck a pro bowl quarterback off of a tree in the backyard......

*Sigh* But I also digress. Good or bad, the Kyle Orton era has begun, and it's certianly not his fault that he's become a Bronco under weird circumstances. He's impressed me with the manner in which he quietly came into town and immediately set about the business of becoming the quarterback. I wish him well; Lord knows that he's got a tough road ahead of him this year with the combination of our schedule; lack of defense; and the probability of losing Marshall for an extended period of time due to a possible suspension for his latest off-field incidents. Hopefully he can pull a rabbit or two out of his hat - and it'd be even better if one of those rabbits could give us a decent pass rush......:D

[Howlin' Wolf]

We'd better; lord knows we need it.

And I hear ya about doubting McDaniels ability to coach. Though he acted immature at least Cutler was a proven quantity on the field (though also arguably a work in progress). I have very serious doubts about both McDaniels as a coach and Xanders as a GM.


While I believe Cutler was at fault, I wish the Panthers would have made a play for him. Peppers and draft picks. How did that not happen!?!?

Now I'm stuck with another year of Jake Delturnover. Hell, why couldnt we have traded for Kyle Orton!?!?

and I only doubt McDaniels because none of Belicheck's assistants have turned out to be worth a flip. Believe me, I'd much rather see the Broncos win the west than LT and Philip Rivers.

[jrmitch]

While I believe Cutler was at fault, I wish the Panthers would have made a play for him. Peppers and draft picks. How did that not happen!?!?....The same way we didn't make a run at Brady Quinn, who I'd rather have seen us grab than Orton. (And no offense to Kyle; I just like Quinns skill set better).

Man, Peppers sure would have been nice to have......:(

[danbos]

The same way we didn't make a run at Brady Quinn, who I'd rather have seen us grab than Orton. (And no offense to Kyle; I just like Quinns skill set better).

I think you just like Brady Quinn's school better. ;)

[jrmitch]

I think you just like Brady Quinn's school better. ;):D :D Well, there is that - besides the fact that Brady is bigger, stronger, more mobile, and has a stronger arm. :D :D

[VerbumReale]

but they've left such a bad taste in my mouth that I'm seriously considering not rooting for the Broncos this year and throwing my heart into the Bear pit instead.


Come to the dark side. It is calling you!!

[jrmitch]

Come to the dark side. It is calling you!!'bout time you showed up around here..........;)

It may be calling, but I'm not listening. As a native of Illinois it's no problem to root for Da Bears. Besides, I'm one of the few left around who's old enough to remember Abe Gibron, Bobby Douglas, and some old fart named Halas......:D

[VerbumReale]

'bout time you showed up around here..........;)

It may be calling, but I'm not listening. As a native of Illinois it's no problem to root for Da Bears. Besides, I'm one of the few left around who's old enough to remember Abe Gibron, Bobby Douglas, and some old fart named Halas......:D


None of those names ring a bell (except Halas of course, but from other people's recollections of him). But I am old enough to remember Bob Avelini.

And being a resident of Minnesota and a by-proxy native by marriage I will cotinue to root for the Vikings as my NFC team. I guess no matter what Conference we're talking about, when it comes to football we are meant to be rivals.

[rossid]

I'm that old too.

My coworker welcomes Jay since the Bears' draft picks have mostly been busts.

Crabtree to the Raiders at #8? What are folks saying?

[jrmitch]

None of those names ring a bell (except Halas of course, but from other people's recollections of him). But I am old enough to remember Bob Avelini.

And being a resident of Minnesota and a by-proxy native by marriage I will cotinue to root for the Vikings as my NFC team. I guess no matter what Conference we're talking about, when it comes to football we are meant to be rivals.I actually don't remember Halas as a coach (he'd stepped down 2 years before I really became a hard-core football fan). But he remained as principal owner and patriarch of the Bears for over a decade and was very visible in media coverage of the club.

Y'know, the funny thing is that I actually loved the entire NFC Central when I was a kid. The first two guys who I became fans of were Vikings QB Joe Kapp and coach Bud Grant, and discovering the historical roots of clubs like the Bears and Packers helped me fall in love with the game. I've never actually stopped liking the Bears; it's just that living in Denver I've become semi-brainwashed. :)

[VerbumReale]

Crabtree to the Raiders at #8? What are folks saying?

From what I have seen, most mock drafts have Crabtree going #4 to Seattle and the Raiders taking Jeremy Macklin from Missouri at #7.

If we could get Crabtree that would be great. They are pretty much empty at WR. If they can't get Crabtree, I would almost rather see them trade down and maybe pick up a WR with a later pick and then an additional 2nd or 3rd to maybe pick up another one. Then again Johnie Lee Higgins has shown some promise. If he and J-Russ can raise their level of play and Zach Miller continues his emergence as a reliable TE, then Maclin might be enough.

Either way they need some help with their receivers. 400 yard of total offense and only 50 of it coming through the air is only going to last so long.

[ZippyApplePants]

I actually don't remember Halas as a coach (he'd stepped down 2 years before I really became a hard-core football fan). But he remained as principal owner and patriarch of the Bears for over a decade and was very visible in media coverage of the club.

Y'know, the funny thing is that I actually loved the entire NFC Central when I was a kid. The first two guys who I became fans of were Vikings QB Joe Kapp and coach Bud Grant, and discovering the historical roots of clubs like the Bears and Packers helped me fall in love with the game. I've never actually stopped liking the Bears; it's just that living in Denver I've become semi-brainwashed. :)

That wasn't brainwashing, it was the altitude affecting your brain. :D

[jrmitch]

From what I have seen, most mock drafts have Crabtree going #4 to Seattle and the Raiders taking Jeremy Macklin from Missouri at #7.

If we could get Crabtree that would be great. They are pretty much empty at WR. If they can't get Crabtree, I would almost rather see them trade down and maybe pick up a WR with a later pick and then an additional 2nd or 3rd to maybe pick up another one. Then again Johnie Lee Higgins has shown some promise. If he and J-Russ can raise their level of play and Zach Miller continues his emergence as a reliable TE, then Maclin might be enough.

Either way they need some help with their receivers. 400 yard of total offense and only 50 of it coming through the air is only going to last so long.Steve, I'd rank Macklin right up there with Crabtree simply because he could easily be another Devin Hester and also give you a huge boost on special teams (aka as Rick Upchurch did years ago with the Broncos). He seems to actually be more versatile than any other wideout in the draft.

Wait a minute...what on earth am I doin' trying to help you guys? Maybe Zippy's right about the altitude.....:eek:

[VerbumReale]

Wait a minute...what on earth am I doin' trying to help you guys? Maybe Zippy's right about the altitude.....:eek:

It's not like Al calls me on Draft day seeking advice or anything. Some of our drafts would have looked a lot different if that were the case.:D

[rossid]

Mackin? I had to look them up and I've got a big 12 school 15 minutes from home!

Garcia seems like a good deal with the young J-Russ.

[rossid]

Todd McShay of Scouts Inc. also has Jeremy Maclin to the Raiders. His main point is offensive line will rule the roost this draft.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?id=4085612&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2f insider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft09%2finsider%2fco lumns%2fstory%3fid%3d4085 612

[VerbumReale]

Todd McShay of Scouts Inc. also has Jeremy Maclin to the Raiders. His main point is offensive line will rule the roost this draft.

http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?id=4085612&action=login&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2f insider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft09%2finsider%2fco lumns%2fstory%3fid%3d4085 612


McShay must have changed his mind. I believe as of yesterday he had the Raiders taking Andre Smith. The more I hear about Macklin the more I like him.

Check him out here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wWaqPMpqIWQ

[rossid]

I'll take an OT to get in there with my fellow alum Robert Gallery (U of Iowa).

[3D NC fan]

Interesting article on Fox Sports with some draft predictions:

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9484316/Predicting-the-draft,-start-to-finish?gt1=39002

[NotMyOwn]

'bout time you showed up around here..........;)

It may be calling, but I'm not listening. As a native of Illinois it's no problem to root for Da Bears. Besides, I'm one of the few left around who's old enough to remember Abe Gibron, Bobby Douglas, and some old fart named Halas......:D


I grew up in the south suburbs of Chicago and still live about thirty miles south of that and I remember those people very well. People called me Bobby Douglas when I played football as a kid, mostly because I am a lefty.


My coworker welcomes Jay since the Bears' draft picks have mostly been busts.

Most of those busts have been in the form of RB's and QB's. Some examples of good picks are Urlacher in 2000, Tommie Harris in 2004, Daniel Manning and Devin Hester in 2006, Greg Olsen in 2007 and Matt Forte in 2008.

[jrmitch]

Rumors are swirling around here that McDaniels wants to trade up to grab Sanchez. While I think he has the tools to eventually be a good NFL quarterback I have yet to hear anyone say that Sanchez is ready to step in and start right now. McDaniels is on the record as saying that he wants impact players who will help us now...which Sanchez won't. But my fear is both McDaniels and GM Brian Xanders are more concerned about saving face by immediately replacing Cutler than they are concerned with looking at our other needs - of which we have many - first.

And I understand that McDaniels accomplished a lot last year with Cassell - but Sanchez isn't Cassell and McDaniels no longer can retain a singular focus as an offensive coordinator. We have no quarterbacks coach and as head coach he won't have the time to give nearly as much individualized attention to a project like Sanchez as he did to Cassell. I'm becoming more convinced by the day that our new coach and GM will be the best friends our division opponents have had in years.......:eek:

[VerbumReale]

And I understand that McDaniels accomplished a lot last year with Cassell - but Sanchez isn't Cassell and McDaniels no longer can retain a singular focus as an offensive coordinator. We have no quarterbacks coach and as head coach he won't have the time to give nearly as much individualized attention to a project like Sanchez as he did to Cassell. I'm becoming more convinced by the day that our new coach and GM will be the best friends our division opponents have had in years.......:eek:


I think the fact that he did so much with Cassell is all the more reason for them not to have a sense of urgency to get Sanchez. I mean wasn't Cassell not even a starter in college?? The fact that McDaniel was able to do so much with him should tell them they can at least wait until the 2nd or third round. I think they should see what he can do with Orton this year before they think about drafting a QB.

As far as Cassell. I just can't help but think that was a bad move for the chefs. The first thing I thought of when I heard about it was Rob Johnson. Remember him?? Has a few good games with Jacksonville when Brunelle got hurt one season and then signed a huge contract with Buffalo only to end up being a bif turd.

[rossid]

About one hour till go time.

Stafford's deal with Detroit is done. Please pour a salary cap on his gods of the NFL!!


http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft09/insider/columns/story?id=4095815&action=upsell&appRedirect=http%3a%2f%2f insider.espn.go.com%2fnfl %2fdraft09%2finsider%2fco lumns%2fstory%3fid%3d4095 815

http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/9484316/Predicting-the-draft,-start-to-finish?gt1=39002


McShay now says Crabtree and so does Fox Sports.

Here is ESPN followed by Fox Sports in parenthesis.

Very interesting.


1. Detroit Lions: Matthew Stafford, QB, Georgia (1)

2. St. Louis Rams: Jason Smith, OT, Baylor (2)

3. Kansas City Chiefs: Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU (5)

4. Seattle Seahawks: Aaron Curry, OLB, Wake Forest (3)

(*FoxSports has Mark Sanchez to Seattle with #4)

5. Cleveland Browns: B.J. Raji, DT, Boston College (12 - Denver)

6. Cincinnati Bengals: Andre Smith, OT, Alabama (8)

7. Oakland Raiders: Michael Crabtree, WR, Texas Tech (7)

8. Jacksonville Jaguars: Eugene Monroe, OT, Virginia (6)

9. Green Bay Packers: Brian Orakpo, DE/OLB, Texas (9)

10. San Francisco 49ers: Michael Oher, OT, Mississippi (10)

**McShay has Sanchez to the 'skins at #13

[rossid]

Jets: huge move to get Sanchez and I give this a thumbs up.

Raiders: Apparently Darrius Heyward-Bev was the #4 receiver behind Crabtree, Maclin, and some other guy (Nicks at UNC). But is this really a smart pick?

My comments to the live ESPN.com chat leading up to and after the pick. Of course none were published.

Edit One
Before:
- Raji (DT - BC) or Crabtree (WR - TT)?

After:
- Why take someone with a Scouts Inc. grade of 91 when Raji and Crabtree are both 96?

- This shows why Raiders fans have wanted Al Davis out of this role for several years.


Edit Two
Comment on live chat:
Skylar (Melrose,MN): Is Bey the biggest surprise of the draft, or do you see a bigger one happening later on?

Gary Horton: I can't imagine a bigger surprise in this first round. It's not that he's not a good player. He is. He has been a hot guy in the last couple of weeks. You knew he was a guy on the move and moving up. The surprise is on where he was taken. As we already mentioned, you can love a guy, but taking him closer to where he belongs by trading down. I think that's the big surprise. I thought the Raiders made a tremendous reach. It's a case of Al Davis sees a player he likes and doesn't care what teams around him are doing.


Let me go back and post some prior comments as they tie into receivers and the Raiders pick:

Gary Horton: Maclin ran a 4.45 at the combine, which is good and explosive, but Heyward-Bey ran a 4.25 with a 38-inch vertical jump. I can also tell you that not only do the Raiders and Al Davis love speed, but they've had a philosophy for years that a vertical jump is an absolute indicator of explosiveness. I think they were so enamored by speed.

Gary Horton: A little bit of a system guy. But this looks like strictly an Al Davis pick.

Gary Horton(commenting on Green Bay):*I think they've already made a decision on Raji. I think it makes great sense, because Green Bay is converting to a 3-4 defense. Raji is a perfect guy to step right in at NT. He could also play DT if they switch to a 4-3. He can control the middle and eat up blockers. He is someone that they can really build around. I believe that they had some last second discussions when Crabtree dropped. I think this was a draft that they were concentrating on defense. This is another case where a guy was probably expected to go 5-6 spots earlier and he dropped in their lap. I think that makes the value very good.

Analysis from ESPN.com:
This is a significant reach considering both Michael Crabtree and Jeremy Maclin are on the board, though if this is the type of player the Raiders often go for. He has outstanding top-end speed, running a 4.30 at the combine, and he's a threat to score every time he touches the ball. He also has good size at 6-foot-1, 210 pounds. Our concern with Heyward-Bey is his inconsistent hands. In addition, he needs to work on his route-running.

What do you think Steve?

[VerbumReale]

They need a receiver but if this was their guy they probably could have gotten him much later. Why not trade down and pick him up later in the first and maybe get an additional 2nd round pick in the trade?

I would have rather seen them get Crabtree although I don't think it's the disaster that Mel Kiper seems to think it's going to be (He seems to not have a whole lot of love for the Raiders).

This was clearly an Al Davis move. They will never progress as long as he continues to make decisions like this.

[jrmitch]

From Broncoland I can't say that I'm exactly disappointed with the Raiders first and second round picks......;)

I'm still trying to take a wait-and-see attitude about our day. Overall I think we probably did okay, but even though I understand the logic behind taking Moreno in the first round I'd have much rather seen us grab Brian Orakpo.

I also agree with you about Caseell and Johnson, and when I look at Sanchez's 16 college starts I can't help but think of Akili Smith (who was a first round pick of Cincy after just 11 college starts; played for 3 teams in 5 years in the NFL; and is currently playing for Calgary in the CFL). Today I heard Sanchez compared to Rivers, Brees, and Rothlesberger, and practically everyone ignored the fact that all 3 of those guys were also 4 year starters in college (as were McNabb; both Mannings; and Cutler). While we've seen guys who started for 4 years in college also turn into flops in the NFL (i.e. Tim Couch and Vince Young) we've never seen anyone with less than 20 starts and two full seasons under center in college become an All Pro. I think the kid's got a rough road ahead of him.

[VerbumReale]

I also agree with you about Caseell and Johnson, and when I look at Sanchez I can't help but think of Akili Smith (who was a first round pick of Cincy after just 11 college starts) I don't doubt the kids physical tools at all. But today I heard Sanchez compared to Rivers, Brees, and Rothlesberger, and practically everyone ignored the fact that all 3 of those guys were also 4 year starters in college (as was McNabb; both Mannings; and Cutler). I think history has proven that if you don't have the experience in college you can't reach the highest level of performance in the pros. My money's on Stafford to have a much more succesful career.


Jimbo,
overall I agree with your take on Sanchez. I thought it was at best a reach for the Jets to give up that much. But I wouldn't be so sure that Stafford fares much better. He is playing for the Lions.

Question to ponder for next season. Which former USC QB sees more playing time next season-Mark Sanchez or Matt Leinart??

[jrmitch]

Jimbo,
overall I agree with your take on Sanchez. I thought it was at best a reach for the Jets to give up that much. But I wouldn't be so sure that Stafford fares much better. He is playing for the Lions.

Question to ponder for next season. Which former USC QB sees more playing time next season-Mark Sanchez or Matt Leinart??Yeah, I agree about Stafford; after re-reading my post and thinking it through I edited that thought out. The Lions could be a real hellhole for even the best guys in the league.

Regarding your question, I dunno.....I think there will be tremendous pressure on the Jets to start Sanchez ASAP, but the Chiefs only have a one year deal with Cassell, and with the Pats former GM now running the show in KC they'll probably sink or swim with him. My guess will be that by week 3 they'll both be starting and then it's a question of whether or not they'll be able to survive. :eek:

[Howlin' Wolf]

From Broncoland I can't say that I'm exactly disappointed with the Raiders first and second round picks......;)

I'm still trying to take a wait-and-see attitude about our day. Overall I think we probably did okay, but even though I understand the logic behind taking Moreno in the first round I'd have much rather seen us grab Brian Orakpo.

I also agree with you about Caseell and Johnson, and when I look at Sanchez's 16 college starts I can't help but think of Akili Smith (who was a first round pick of Cincy after just 11 college starts; played for 3 teams in 5 years in the NFL; and is currently playing for Calgary in the CFL). Today I heard Sanchez compared to Rivers, Brees, and Rothlesberger, and practically everyone ignored the fact that all 3 of those guys were also 4 year starters in college (as were McNabb; both Mannings; and Cutler). While we've seen guys who started for 4 years in college also turn into flops in the NFL (i.e. Tim Couch and Vince Young) we've never seen anyone with less than 20 starts and two full seasons under center in college become an All Pro. I think the kid's got a rough road ahead of him.

Vince Young and Tim Couch were junoirs when they jumped to the NFL

[jrmitch]

Vince Young and Tim Couch were junoirs when they jumped to the NFLDuh.....you're right. They both became starters part way through their freshman year. Thanks.......:D

[rossid]

First two picks on the Sabbath are from THE University of Iowa!!

[ZippyApplePants]

Duh.....you're right. They both became starters part way through their freshman year. Thanks.......:D

Peyton wasn't a starter until about halfway through his Freshman year either. He was 4th on the depth chart until the starter tore his ACL.

[jrmitch]

Peyton wasn't a starter until about halfway through his Freshman year either. He was 4th on the depth chart until the starter tore his ACL.Actually, starter Jerry Colquitt got hurt in the opener and Rockies first baseman Todd Helton (who beat out Manning for the backup spot in the preseason) became the starter until he got hurt in week 5. It would have been quite interesting to see what would have happened to Todds career path had he been able to remain the starter.

[ZippyApplePants]

Actually, starter Jerry Colquitt got hurt in the opener and Rockies first baseman Todd Helton (who beat out Manning for the backup spot in the preseason) became the starter until he got hurt in week 5. It would have been quite interesting to see what would have happened to Todds career path had he been able to remain the starter.

Yup, that's the way it happened. It also would have been interesting to see how things would have worked out had Shuler stayed for his Senior year.

Anyway, I saw that one of the writers on FOX Sports gave the Broncos a "B" on the Draft. What grade would you give them?

[jrmitch]

Yup, that's the way it happened. It also would have been interesting to see how things would have worked out had Shuler stayed for his Senior year.

Anyway, I saw that one of the writers on FOX Sports gave the Broncos a "B" on the Draft. What grade would you give them?At best I'd give 'em a C - . Our two biggest needs were for an outside linebacker and D-end. While I think Robert Ayers was a good choice at D-end we had an absolute physical monster in Brian Orakpo pracically fall into our lap, yet the same team that finished last year as #3 in offense and #30 in defense decides a running back is a bigger priority..... :confused:

No matter what kind of spin McDaniels puts on it I think it's a horrible choice. I was gonna save this one for after we'd lost about 10 games next year, but I can't stand it any longer: my new name for McDaniels is McIdiot.......:mad:

[ZippyApplePants]

At best I'd give 'em a C - . Our two biggest needs were for an outside linebacker and D-end. While I think Robert Ayers was a good choice at D-end we had an absolute physical monster in Brian Orakpo pracically fall into our lap, yet the same team that finished last year as #3 in offense and #30 in defense decides a running back is a bigger priority..... :confused:

No matter what kind of spin McDaniels puts on it I think it's a horrible choice. I was gonna save this one for after we'd lost about 10 games next year, but I can't stand it any longer: my new name for McDaniels is McIdiot.......:mad:


LOL! Sorry, I know I shouldn't laugh at your disgust but that is a good one! I think I'll use the name my family sometimes uses for McDonald's: McQuack.