Church Pastor In Illinois Killed In Front Of Congregation

[Tony Trout]

Wow....:eek: :( (I didn't know where to place this so...if it needs to be moved, please do)




Pastor Dead After Shooting At A First Baptist Church In Illinois (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,506820,00.html)

An Illinois pastor used the Bible he was reading from to shield himself from bullets being pumped at him from an unknown gunman who opened fire during Sunday services at the First Baptist Church in Maryville, Ill.

Senior Pastor Fred Winters was preaching during the 8:15 a.m. service when a man entered the church, walked down the aisle and started shooting, a parishioner told FOX News. Four others were also reportedly shot.

The .45 caliber semi-automatic pistol then jammed and the suspect started stabbing himself with a knife, Ralph Timmins of the Illinois State Police told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

Timmins said the gunman slashed two parishioners when they tried to subdue him.

The suspect is in serious condition and is heading to the operating room, according to Saint Louis University Hospital.

Winters was shot three times, police said. He was pronounced dead on arrival at Anderson Hospital, a spokeswoman told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch.

Five other people were taken to local hospitals.

Police said there were about 150 people in the church at the time of the shooting.

Linda Cunningham was sitting near the back of the church when the gunman walked up the aisle. She told the St. Louis Post-Dispatch she figured the man was confused about what time the service started because of daylight savings time.

Cunningham told the Post-Dispatch she, as well as others, didn't recognize the gunman.

Some parishioners believe the gunman used church bulletins to conceal his weapon.

"All you could see was confetti" Cunningham told the Post-Dispatch.

The church has an average attendance of more than 1,200 and was officially organized on March 4, 1945, according to their Web site.

[bajagill]

....lots of folks to pray for today.....

[HotWireD]

Praying for Pastor Fred Winters, his family and his congregation.

\o/

[EmmoGomer]

What a truly awful thing to happen. Lifting up the our church family in Jesus name.
Feeband are booked to play at the church next week, please pray for wisdom for those young guys as they minister to the congregation.

[Salome]

So sad ...... will pray.

[jesus loves me]

Totally missed this on the news, thanks for posting it. Very sad indeed.:(

[Jesuslove]

Despite the murder of the pastor, the shooter's gun jammed after a few shots and prevented a larger tragedy. So sad!

[pamcharlie]

Yes i am definately praying this pastor and his family and all the leadership team at that church .

When my toddlers church team were on a few weeks ago we talked with the head of toddlers church at my church about the fire drill and other safety concerns and since we get alot of people at my church we are concerned that if anything like this happens at my church there could be resignations on the childrens ministry teams since this type of thing could happen at any church and i suggested to the head of the toddlers church area for a meeting to take place to address our concerns.

[pamcharlie]

We are praying that this doesn't happen at my church since it would be awful
when strange people are lurking about we have people walking up the back to check them out and escort them off the property

[reddy-freddy]

will be praying for the congregation, and the pastors family. It's so sad how the world is turning out. Its so horrible that this actually took place in a church!!

[jrmitch]

This hits kinda close to home for me as I help head up security for a large church in the Denver area and we've recently had a couple of individuals whose conduct has made us very uneasy. (We're also located just a couple of miles away from Faith Bible Chapel, where a gunman killed a couple of YWAM students about a year ago). We'll definitely be praying for the pastors family and congregation.

[pamcharlie]

It is awful to know that strange people are targeting us christians in our churches and i have a friend who is living a country where she could prescuted for her faith in asia

[Tribal]

This is exactly the reason why I conceal carry in church.

Prayers for all those involved.

[Pouye]

This is exactly the reason why I conceal carry in church.

Prayers for all those involved.

:D

Rock

[cheewiee]

Conceal Carry in church is ambigius at best. I know that I cannot conceal Carry at my church because we meet in a HS. So that is a Clear nono.

[middletree]

I think it's illegal in many states to do so.

[sAved444]

Just think If a teacher was packin' at Columbine.

[middletree]

Just think If a teacher was packin' at Columbine.

That sounds like a good idea at first, but I used to teach, and I wanted to strangle my 7th-graders a time or two. Most teachers have those moments. You want to let them pack heat?

;)




(before anyone calls the cops, I was just kidding)

[Salome]

Actually I think Jr. High Schools are the exception .......... :D

[sAved444]

That sounds like a good idea at first, but I used to teach, and I wanted to strangle my 7th-graders a time or two. Most teachers have those moments. You want to let them pack heat?

;)




(before anyone calls the cops, I was just kidding)

Yea, I thought of that also. I'm glad my teachers in high school weren't carrying a handgun. If they were, they showed amazing restraint.

[Pouye]

Yea, I thought of that also. I'm glad my teachers in high school weren't carrying a handgun. If they were, they showed amazing restraint.

Really? Seriously? I mean, there is a huge difference between feeling frustrated and even exasperated, and pulling out a gun and shooting someone. I've taught classes, and I can't think of any time whatsoever that I would have actually wanted to murder one of my students. I think that only a teacher who was absolutely mentally unstable or deranged could ever open fire on a student or students. Looking back, I would be completely fine with any teacher I ever had carrying a concealed firearm. Any pastor, too. I never felt like my teacher wanted to kill me. Call my mom and dad? Sure. Send me to the principal's office? Yup. Shoot me with a 45 semi-auto? No. To shoot someone you are in authority over (and who is unarmed and usually much younger) would take much more than anger or frustration. It would take insanity/going "postal".

Rock

[Martyred]

we definatly have guys at our church that are packin every where they go.

We have one officer that always has a handgun either in his pocket or on his ankle.

[Pouye]

we definatly have guys at our church that are packin every where they go.

We have one officer that always has a handgun either in his pocket or on his ankle.

My church does, too. I know some people who go to my church (ex-military), and I'm pretty sure they are packing. It makes me feel more safe, not less safe.

Rock

[Pouye]

I think it's illegal in many states to do so.

Not in mine (Washington State). I can also walk around with a loaded pistol on my hip (in a holster) in Washington State in most places (open carry is lawful). Washington is a "Stand Your Ground" state, too. That means if there is someone doing something that is threatening others or myself, I do not have any duty to flee. I can legally stand my ground and use force if necessary to defend myself or others.

This is finally one thing I like about Washington State law. :D

Rock

[cheewiee]

Not in mine (Washington State). I can also walk around with a loaded pistol on my hip (in a holster) in Washington State in most places (open carry is lawful). Washington is a "Stand Your Ground" state, too. That means if there is someone doing something that is threatening others or myself, I do not have any duty to flee. I can legally stand my ground and use force if necessary to defend myself or others.

This is finally one thing I like about Washington State law. :D

Rock

Having just finished the NC Conceal Carry Course, NC laws are pretty confusing...

So you have a Duty to Retreat, with the exception of in your home, AND When you feel that there is an iminent thread of death, sexual assualt or serious bodily harm, OR believe that someone else is is in threat if iminent death, sexual assualt, or serious bodily harm.

But you are only authorized to use deadly force when you feel that there is an iminent thread of death, sexual assualt or serious bodily harm, OR believe that someone else is is in threat if iminent death, sexual assualt, or serious bodily harm.

So while yes in NC you have a duty to retreat, its really not an issue.

[sAved444]

Really? Seriously? I mean, there is a huge difference between feeling frustrated and even exasperated, and pulling out a gun and shooting someone. I've taught classes, and I can't think of any time whatsoever that I would have actually wanted to murder one of my students. I think that only a teacher who was absolutely mentally unstable or deranged could ever open fire on a student or students. Looking back, I would be completely fine with any teacher I ever had carrying a concealed firearm. Any pastor, too. I never felt like my teacher wanted to kill me. Call my mom and dad? Sure. Send me to the principal's office? Yup. Shoot me with a 45 semi-auto? No. To shoot someone you are in authority over (and who is unarmed and usually much younger) would take much more than anger or frustration. It would take insanity/going "postal".

Rock

I only meant that I had been known to push some of my teachers to the edge in high school. I didn't think anyone would take me that seriously. My students often question me on my patience. I just explain to them I have a 6 year old at home and there is NOTHING they can do to top him. :D . I love teaching these kids about fixing cars and we have probably the best relationship possible. I have found that respect is a two way street and I give it and get it back.

[Pouye]

I only meant that I had been known to push some of my teachers to the edge in high school. I didn't think anyone would take me that seriously. My students often question me on my patience. I just explain to them I have a 6 year old at home and there is NOTHING they can do to top him. :D . I love teaching these kids about fixing cars and we have probably the best relationship possible. I have found that respect is a two way street and I give it and get it back.

I wasn't sure how serious you were. Whew! :cool:

Rock