Case for Sasquatch - Bigfoot Buttocks ??? [Archive]

View Full Version : Case for Sasquatch - Bigfoot Buttocks ???

Evanescence

02-04-2009, 03:19 PM

Those that have seen or are familar with the Patterson film, filmed in 1967...it is the gold standard for the possibility of the North American Great Ape.

The basic story:

Roger Patterson and Bob Gimlin were two friends, turned part time Bigfoot researchers. In the 60s and 70s, Northern CA was a hotbed of sightings. They set off with horses and backpacks to see what they could find. Back in several miles, they stumbled upon what they claim is Bigfoot. The horses spooked and Patterson shot the most famous film footage of the supposed beast ever. Later, footprints were cast..and the film has been scrutinized, but never disproven..for over 40 yrs.

Recently, 4 incredible things have been found on the footage.

1. The animal had a 70" gait or stride. This would be virtually impossible to fake, unless you had a 7' 6" man in a suit.

2. Buttocks were found on the film

3. Beasts were also found on the film

4. Muscle movements are seen on the film

The theory of a man in a monkey suit?

Long since disproven. Several legendary Hollywood costume designers claim that they COULD NOT create a suit that good in 1967. Suits of any kind were expensive..much less one this good. One designer said with the muscle movements that are clearly seen..it'd be impossible to fake.

So, the big question...

How'd these guys pull off a hoax with a 7' tall man, 5+ miles back in, create or buy a suit that good..AND make sure it had perfect buttocks and breasts?

If they did, why hasnt anyone come forth with proof that THEY assisted with it?

Here's the evidence:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=N96o-Qohnps

45 seconds from the Patterson film..the gold standard stuff....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=y6boWouLfe8&feature=related

Same footage only with gait analysis

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/bigfoot_photos_Patterson. jpg

The famous, frame 325 of the Patterson film, look close you can see the mammary of the ape...

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/Bigfootbuttocks.jpg

One of the frames from the Patterson film...note the buttocks...

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/Bigfootbuttocks2.jpg

Cave drawings show how Indians described the walk of the great ape...and here you can see the buttocks

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/mclarin_Patterson02.jpg

A 6' 6" man walks in the same spot as the ape in the film....he is clearly smaller...

freakysoccer

02-05-2009, 05:25 PM

have you ever read books by loren coleman or jeff meldrum? if not you would find them very intresting.. one is titled Sasquatch: legend meets science by dr. jeff meldurm...and loren coleman's book, bigfoot:the true story of apes in america...both great books with some amazing scientific insight. i'm sure you've heard of them but incase anyone else hasn't i'd definitely suggest these books to them...also below is a link to a radio interview with dr. jane goodall talking about the possibilities of undiscovered large apes..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4NmCmfdFAhQ&feature=PlayList&p=FBBD5E241DA0EC18&playnext=1&index=22

Sam!

02-06-2009, 12:44 AM

I see a lot of "this one guy says this," "this other guys says that" and 40-year-old pictures. I hope you can understand why you don't come off particularly credible.

Evanescence

02-06-2009, 02:28 AM

Yep, have the books...Legend meets Science is a GREAT book...so scientific but yet easy to read. I feel its fairly non-biased..and gives a goodc ase for unknown apes in NA

Sam, yes I do understand that. But, the pics are there....and the Patterson film has never been disproved. Take my word for it...I can provide the names of the experts that have looked at this. The list is a mile long...

Some of our own on here have seen the great ape..I hope to one day.

Sam!

02-08-2009, 10:27 AM

Evanescence

02-09-2009, 01:36 AM

Just like ETs and bigffot, people scoffed at Dinosaurs...the theory of. Some to this day say its all a conspiracy to deny God..and that the bible doesnt speak of them.

Speaking of, doesnt the Bible speak of GIANTS? Like the Giganticus fossils they have...the giant ape of Asia?

Could it be?

Hmmm..the plot thickens....

in hiding

02-09-2009, 01:50 AM

Sam!

02-09-2009, 02:42 AM

Yeah, Goliath was a giant ape. A giant, pagan, taunting ape. You scoff at what you find unbelievable & believe what you believe in, I'll remain skeptical about everything. :)

cheewiee

02-09-2009, 05:02 AM

Yeah, Goliath was a giant ape. A giant, pagan, taunting ape...

DAVID KILLED GRAPEAPE?!?!?!?!?!

freakysoccer

02-09-2009, 05:07 AM

so let's say sasquatch exists...what does that really mean? How will the existence of sasquatch really impact your day to day life? How will it make a difference to me? It's merely an academic exercise to prove / disprove the existence...until someone produces a real sasquatch body, no one outside conspiracy theory circles will even care....then the only people who will care will be those who can potentially profit from it. That must be why people are searching for it; it's not to prove conspiracy theories right or wrong and it's not for some altruistic reason...it's for money...the plot thickens ;)

it would have an impact on us all..it could be our closest relative in the animal world...a very endangered species..and if it does exist it would be something everyone would need to help protect. but i guess only those of us who have seen one and believe in the possibility of anything are the only ones who care...

Evanescence

02-09-2009, 12:43 PM

HumanityisSaved

02-09-2009, 01:06 PM

it would have an impact on us all..it could be our closest relative in the animal world...a very endangered species..and if it does exist it would be something everyone would need to help protect. but i guess only those of us who have seen one and believe in the possibility of anything are the only ones who care...

I have a friend from college (he was my R.A.) that grew up in Oregon and he and his grandmother were out for a walk one day in the meadow and were chased away by bigfoot. He was old enough at the time to know he was not seeing a bear and his grandmother was young enough to know she had not lost her mind. He says he clearly saw the great ape. He runs his own business in Oregon now.

No one will ever convince him that he did not see bigfoot.

I have never seen bigfoot and while I have no real opinion on the matter of whether he exists or not I bring no antecedent conceptual systems to my cognition of the matter.;)

Evanescence

02-10-2009, 02:20 AM

I have a friend from college (he was my R.A.) that grew up in Oregon and he and his grandmother were out for a walk one day in the meadow and were chased away by bigfoot. He was old enough at the time to know he was not seeing a bear and his grandmother was young enough to know she had not lost her mind. He says he clearly saw the great ape. He runs his own business in Oregon now.

No one will ever convince him that he did not see bigfoot.

I have never seen bigfoot and while I have no real opinion on the matter of whether he exists or not I bring no antecedent conceptual systems to my cognition of the matter.;)

The size of the Pacific Northwest bigfoot are HUGE...7-9' tall some say......500+ lbs and BIG....

if you saw one up close and it ran after you....you'd be scarred for life. Those indians up there have legends of these GIANTS..and stayed away from them. there's all kinds of Indian lore, stories whatever about them. Many a man has had them in their sights with a gun but couldnt pull the trigger...others have only to have them run off probably hit but not his hard enough to drop. They're massive creatures...

How can we explain BIG men...6' 3" or bigger...ex-military, police or fire personell...seasoned men in the field...that go into the woods hunting, have a darn scary episode and will never go into the woods again?

Then, for the next few years have PTSD episodes and need counseling? Nightmares? THAT'S real....and it has happened...

RevZeek

02-10-2009, 02:39 AM

I have never seen bigfoot and while I have no real opinion on the matter of whether he exists or not I bring no antecedent conceptual systems to my cognition of the matter.

This thought pretty much sums up how I feel about it.

in hiding

02-11-2009, 12:52 PM

in hiding

02-11-2009, 12:54 PM

How'd these guys pull off a hoax with a 7' tall man, 5+ miles back in, create or buy a suit that good..AND make sure it had perfect buttocks and breasts?

If they did, why hasnt anyone come forth with proof that THEY assisted with it?

.

*cough*

Another watershed came in October 1967 with “one of the most momentous events in the annals of Bigfoot hunting” (Bord and Bord 1982, 80). Roger Patterson, a longtime Bigfoot enthusiast who had frequently “discovered” the creature’s tracks, encountered a man-beast as he and a sidekick rode at Bluff Creek. It spooked the men’s horses but as his mount fell, Patterson claimed, he jumped clear, grabbed a movie camera from his saddlebag, and filmed the creature as it strode away with a seemingly exaggerated stride, “as if,” wrote Daniel Cohen (1982, 17), “a bad actor were trying to simulate a monster’s walk.”

Patterson’s creature had hairy, pendulous breasts, a detail many thought so convincing that it argued against the film being a hoax. Actually, Patterson had previously made a drawing of just such a supposed female creature which appeared in his book, published the year before (Patterson 1966, 111).

Although early in the next millennium a Patterson acquaintance, Bob Heironimus, confessed he had been the man in the ape suit (Long 2004), some skeptics as well as die-hard monster enthusiasts refused to believe him.

Meanwhile, hoaxes and questionable reports aside, the fact remains that no credible capture of Sasquatch/Bigfoot has ever been recorded, nor has anyone ever recovered a carcass or even partial skeleton in the Pacific Northwest or elsewhere. Insists Cohen (1982, 9), “Surely the creatures die.” Ah, well, but the legend still seems impervious to destruction. http://www.csicop.org/si/2007-01/i-files.html

freakysoccer

02-11-2009, 01:09 PM

why would they need our help in being protected if only a small percentage of the public have even claimed to see them and can't really prove they have seen it?? It seems they are fine at protecting themselves. No one has produced a body of bigfoot body, ever...ever.

can you prove the existence of God? just because you have not seen something doesn't mean that it does not exist....

they would need our help in being protected from poachers...just like other endangered species, for instance, the polar bear...siberian tiger...all we humans seem to do is kill all of God's creatures for something pointless...like the gallbladder of a bear to use as old fashoined medical remedies...

Evanescence

02-11-2009, 01:18 PM

*cough*

Another watershed came in October 1967 with “one of the most momentous events in the annals of Bigfoot hunting” (Bord and Bord 1982, 80). Roger Patterson, a longtime Bigfoot enthusiast who had frequently “discovered” the creature’s tracks, encountered a man-beast as he and a sidekick rode at Bluff Creek. It spooked the men’s horses but as his mount fell, Patterson claimed, he jumped clear, grabbed a movie camera from his saddlebag, and filmed the creature as it strode away with a seemingly exaggerated stride, “as if,” wrote Daniel Cohen (1982, 17), “a bad actor were trying to simulate a monster’s walk.”

Patterson’s creature had hairy, pendulous breasts, a detail many thought so convincing that it argued against the film being a hoax. Actually, Patterson had previously made a drawing of just such a supposed female creature which appeared in his book, published the year before (Patterson 1966, 111).

Although early in the next millennium a Patterson acquaintance, Bob Heironimus, confessed he had been the man in the ape suit (Long 2004), some skeptics as well as die-hard monster enthusiasts refused to believe him.

Meanwhile, hoaxes and questionable reports aside, the fact remains that no credible capture of Sasquatch/Bigfoot has ever been recorded, nor has anyone ever recovered a carcass or even partial skeleton in the Pacific Northwest or elsewhere. Insists Cohen (1982, 9), “Surely the creatures die.” Ah, well, but the legend still seems impervious to destruction. http://www.csicop.org/si/2007-01/i-files.html

The folks that came forth..2 of them...saying they were part of this haox are flimsy at best. And I'm not being biased here...not at all.

Patterson made a lot of money on the film...why did it take 25 yrs for them to come forth..in the 80s.

Qualified experts from every field have dissected the film and not been able to clearly say its a hoax. In fact, its pretty darn convincing when you look at the evidence and science data. There's a LOT there...

Oh..and this guy aboves statement about no carcasses being found and aniamls die etc etc? That doesnt fly. Bears and Mtn Lions die too and are seldom ever found...most big animals seek shelter when they are sick or dying..and I believe the Great Ape does den and/or hybernate. Plus, there's only a small amount of them in very remotes areas...so its a needle in a haystack...

in hiding

02-11-2009, 05:22 PM

can you prove the existence of God? just because you have not seen something doesn't mean that it does not exist....

they would need our help in being protected from poachers...just like other endangered species, for instance, the polar bear...siberian tiger...all we humans seem to do is kill all of God's creatures for something pointless...like the gallbladder of a bear to use as old fashoined medical remedies...

I haven't seen the flying spaghetti monster either, but I'm willing to bet it doesn't exist b/c there is no compelling evidence it exists besides the atheists who use it to mock God. Would you agree there is compelling evidence that there is a God? That's what we're talking about here in re: to bigfoot. produce some credible evidence for it's existence.

i never said they don't exist. I just haven't seen any compelling proof that causes me to rethink my belief they don't exist. You'd think that if they were around someone would be able to produce something aside from blurry pictures and unsubstantiated anecdotal evidence. Just b/c we believe in God, doesn't mean that everything out there that is a belief is true.

I think we need to worry about humans harming / killing other humans before we need to worry about humans harming bigfoot or other animals. I will sign up to protect bigfoot from poachers as soon as one poacher exploits it for it's pelt or for any other use...even if it's to exploit it for money.

in hiding

02-11-2009, 05:30 PM

T
Oh..and this guy aboves statement about no carcasses being found and aniamls die etc etc? That doesnt fly. Bears and Mtn Lions die too and are seldom ever found...most big animals seek shelter when they are sick or dying..and I believe the Great Ape does den and/or hybernate. Plus, there's only a small amount of them in very remotes areas...so its a needle in a haystack...

Yes, but I can go to the zoo or to the local taxidermist and prob see at least one bear or mtn lion.
Also, if there's only a small amount of them, how do they reproduce without having massive genetic mutations that occur? Anytime a gene pool is limited in size you have a massive risk of extinction b/c of increased likelihood to pass on disadvantageous traits. So if bigfoot can survive over a long period of time on an extremely small supply of breeders, it must be far superior to anything out there and my guess would be that if we humans started helping them, we'd hurt them severely. Or bigfoot might not exist.

Evanescence

02-12-2009, 01:50 AM

In Hiding, some valid questions..and I cant answer them...

I just stumbled upon this...

I have often looked at the arms on the Patterson film bigfoot..they're too long to be human. BBC did a re-enactment...and look:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/arms_comparison-1.jpg

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/bigfoot_photos_Patterson-1.jpg

The debate is over. The answer has been in plain view all along, the creature on the film holding it, quite literally, in its arms. And that answer, ironically, is the opposite of the one in the book. The creature can not be a man in a suit.

The writer of the book claimed to have cracked the case by finding two key witnesses: the man who wore the suit, a Yakima acquaintance of Patterson and Gimlin named Bob Heironimus, and the man who (falsely) claims he sold a gorilla suit to Patterson and told him how to modify it, Philip Morris, a costume maker from Charlotte, North Carolina.

The Heironimus story is not new. It surfaced several years ago one of the many unsubstantiated claims to have been “the man in the suit” that crop up from time to time. Phillip Morris appears to be a real find, a man who actually was making gorilla costumes in 1967 and who says he remembers selling one to Roger Patterson.

One of the things that Morris is quoted as saying is that the way to make the arms in the suit look longer than human arms is to extend the gloves of the suit on sticks.

Many people have noted that the arms of the creature in the film look unusually long, almost as long as its legs. Some, including myself in 1968, have published estimates of their length. No one went on to deal with the question of how human arms could be extended to match the extra length and what such an extension would look like.

There is no way to establish for certain if any of the dimensions estimated for the creature in the film are accurate, but what can be established with reasonably accuracy is the length of the creature’s legs and arms in relation to one another. From that ratio, which anatomists call the “intermembral index”, it is simple to calculate how many inches must be added to the arms of a man of known size in order to make his arms long enough to fit the supposed suit.

In my own case the answer turns out to be about 10 inches. But in order for the arms to bend at the elbow, which they plainly do in the movie, all of that extra length has to be added to the lower arm.

The result, in my case, is about 12 inches of arm above the elbow and 29 inches below it—almost as much of a monstrosity as Edward Scissorhands.

The creature in the movie has normal-looking arms. Many issues in the long debate about the movie remain unresolved—what the film speed was, whether a man could duplicate the creature’s unusual bent-kneed walk, whether its behavior was normal for an animal, whether the tracks left on the sandbar could have been faked, and so on—but all of them turn out to have been irrelevant to the main issue. It cannot be a man in a suit.

My measurements of the film, made 36 years ago, gave the creature arms that were 30 inches from the shoulder to the wrist and legs that were 35 inches from the hip to the ground. My own measurements are about 24 inches from shoulder to wrist and 40 inches from hip to ground.

Only the ratios of the measurements matter, the actual size of either the human or the creature makes no difference, and the ratiosfor creature and human are so much different that precise accuracy of the measurements is not significant either.

The much ridiculed Patterson-Gimlin film does not show a man in a suit.

HotWireD

02-12-2009, 03:26 AM

Oh..and this guy aboves statement about no carcasses being found and aniamls die etc etc? That doesnt fly. Bears and Mtn Lions die too and are seldom ever found...most big animals seek shelter when they are sick or dying..and I believe the Great Ape does den and/or hybernate. Plus, there's only a small amount of them in very remotes areas...so its a needle in a haystack...

Just a theory about numbers and the likelihood of seeing a Bigfoot (if they exist).

Population of living bears in the North American Continent (so, not including the thousands and thousands that have died since time immemorial...)

There are currently about 60,000 wild grizzly bears located throughout North America. These bears weigh from 400 to 600 pounds.

There are about 200,000 brown bears in the world. The United States has 32,500, and Canada with 21,750. 95% of the brown bear population in the United States is in Alaska, though in the West they are repopulating slowly but steadily along the Rockies and plains

It is estimated that there are at least 600,000 black bears in North America. In the United States, there are estimated to be over 300,000 individuals. However, the Louisiana black bear (Ursus americanus luteolu) and Florida black bear (Ursus americanus floridanus) are threatened subspecies with small populations (see Status/Protection).

That is approximately 860000 bears in total in North America that are at least the size of an adult human.

That is one bear for approximately every 300 people in the USA.

Obviously, when you go walking in the woods you do not trip over a bear carcass or bones every few feet. If bears (alive and dead) can be so hard to spot, what chances of spotting a primate (possibly slightly more intelligent and less likely to want to be spotted than a bear) which could exist in much smaller numbers.

Small groups (less than one hundred individuals) of humans have remained hidden in the South American rainforests for hundreds of years. If the Bigfoot population is small (but large enough for a viable breeding population) they could have survived for thousands of years side by side with the native North American Indians - the few sightings leading to the legends.

Unfortunately, with the encroachment of the forests and the ability for humans to travel further and deeper and faster in the woods, the Bigfoot may no longer be able to hide - possibly causing stress to the few living individuals (stress can cause lower fertility rates in animals).

If the Bigfoot population is too small to be a viable breeding population, all the theories could be moot in a short period of time - whether they exist or not now, they could be gone within the next few generations.

Evanescence

02-12-2009, 10:42 AM

Good work Hotwired...

Indeed, bears are around but seldome found dead..unless shot or wounded and cant get to their dens...

Therefore, the likley hood of finding a bigfoot carcass if there's only 1000 in the USA and Canada is slim...

Evanescence

02-24-2009, 04:45 PM

Man, ya'll dropped off of this one like fleas on the back of a Sasquatch...

Wolf, you a believer?

freakysoccer

02-25-2009, 05:26 AM

Man, ya'll dropped off of this one like fleas on the back of a Sasquatch...

Wolf, you a believer?

i did drop it..i get sick of arguing...there's something going on and it's obvious that no one really cares...i've seen it, lived it. i know there are unknown creatures walking the earth. i get tired of trying to convince those who are so closed minded. :cool:

Evanescence

02-25-2009, 01:57 PM

Yeh, I guess now that trpaping is over I will have to go and get one...

Cover of TIME magazine reads:

I killed Bigfoot - W/picture of me on the cover giving everyone the bird

HotWireD

02-25-2009, 02:32 PM

Yeh, I guess now that trpaping is over I will have to go and get one...

Cover of TIME magazine reads:

I killed Bigfoot - W/picture of me on the cover giving everyone the bird

No need to kill it E!- just some photographs, casts of footprints, fur, damaged trees, audio recordings and some movie footage...

...nah, better kill it - no one will believe you unless you bring back a carcass :(

Evanescence

02-25-2009, 04:32 PM

Yeh, it'd be the worst if I went looking for it and saw it..but came home with only a story and one blurry pic...

"Sure E...we believe you..." :P

HumanityisSaved

02-26-2009, 01:40 AM

Cover of TIME magazine reads:

I killed Bigfoot - W/picture of me on the cover giving everyone the bird

LOL

Evanescence

03-26-2009, 10:16 AM

For those that care..my Bigfoot novel will be out in May...

Its called,

The 23rd Paradox

Anyone know why?

lori56

03-26-2009, 01:51 PM

"The 23rd Psalm" was already taken?!?!

Evanescence

03-26-2009, 05:21 PM

Nice!

No keep guessing...

Pouye?

freakysoccer

03-27-2009, 04:31 AM

For those that care..my Bigfoot novel will be out in May...

Its called,

The 23rd Paradox

Anyone know why?

i would be intrested in getting a copy of your novel. and i have no idea why the title.

Lauriegomer

03-27-2009, 05:09 AM

'Cause "Loch Ness Monster" is Paradox number 22?

(A genuine guess)

in hiding

03-27-2009, 02:09 PM

E - what do i get for my birthday if I happen to get it right? I mean, i've got a 50-50 chance of guessing right about bigfoot, don't I?

Evanescence

03-28-2009, 06:39 AM

E - what do i get for my birthday if I happen to get it right? I mean, i've got a 50-50 chance of guessing right about bigfoot, don't I?

...a book...

go for it!

Evanescence

03-29-2009, 01:25 PM

Come on!!! No one?

The 23rd Paradox?

Evanescence

03-31-2009, 01:18 PM

OK....I'll let you's off the hook...

The 23rd Paradox

Our hero uncovers a secret program that keeps proof of bigfoot from surfacing and going public for many reasons. The main reason however is that scientists have already examined confiscated bodies and concluded they are much closer to humans than any other ape. Apes have 24 pairs of chromosomes...and humans have 23. Bigfoot too has 23......

Hence...

The 23rd Paradox

It could create a paradox and crisis of faith....as evolutionsist will be saysing they told us so...and creationists may turn their back on creation, the Bible or even God...as a result...

I'm still working on this...but the book is 50% done....and the story is already laid out.......

Evanescence

04-12-2009, 12:50 PM

For a sample on another site but applicable here...

I posted on another site that 50-60% of all American's believe in Bigfoot...

I found a CNN poll from Aug 2008 that I can't copy and paste, but it has over 350,000 votes and it's:

41% believe
59% not

---------------------
"AOL is running a poll, as has been commented here on Cryptomundo by our readers.

They are not only asking if you think that Bigfoot exists, but also you think that Jeff Meldrum’s tenure should be revoked.

At the time that this was posted, the results are: Nov 4, 2006

Do you think Bigfoot exists? "
Yes 59%
No 41%
Total Votes: 141,652

Do you think Jeffrey Meldrum’s tenure should be revoked?
No 88%
Yes 12%
Total Votes: 135,238

--------------------------------------
Here's one off of debatepolitics.com

View Poll Results: Do you believe there's a substantial basis for investigating the following?
Big Foot (Sasqwatch) 31.58%
UFOs and/or Ancient Astronauts 47.37%
Loch Ness Monster 15.79%
All of the above. 10.53%
None of the above. 36.84%
Why spoil the fun for our kids? 15.79%