Global cooling....

[Pouye]

I find it very interesting how people seem to be talking about global warming while it is a fact that temperatures around the globe are cooler than they have been in decades, with records being broken world-wide. In fact, I've read some scientific journals that actually theorize that global warming can cause an "ice age". Well, which is it? If we have an ice age, I can promise you it isn't because of global warming (duh!).

Here is some of this banter:

"...an international group of scientists went to Greenland and used newly developed drilling and sensing equipment to drill into some of the world's most ancient accessible glaciers. Their instruments were so sensitive that when they analyzed the ice core samples they brought up, they were able to look at individual years of snow. The results were shocking.

Prior to the last decades, it was thought that the periods between glaciations and warmer times in North America, Europe, and North Asia were gradual. We knew from the fossil record that the Great Ice Age period began a few million years ago, and during those years there were times where for hundreds or thousands of years North America, Europe, and Siberia were covered with thick sheets of ice year-round. In between these icy times, there were periods when the glaciers thawed, bare land was exposed, forests grew, and land animals (including early humans) moved into these northern regions.

Most scientists figured the transition time from icy to warm was gradual, lasting dozens to hundreds of years, and nobody was sure exactly what had caused it. (Variations in solar radiation were suspected, as were volcanic activity, along with early theories about the Great Conveyor Belt, which, until recently, was a poorly understood phenomenon.)

Looking at the ice cores, however, scientists were shocked to discover that the transitions from ice age-like weather to contemporary-type weather usually took only two or three years. Something was flipping the weather of the planet back and forth with a rapidity that was startling.

It turns out that the ice age versus temperate weather patterns weren't part of a smooth and linear process, like a dimmer slider for an overhead light bulb. They are part of a delicately balanced teeter-totter, which can exist in one state or the other, but transits through the middle stage almost overnight. They more resemble a light switch, which is off as you gradually and slowly lift it, until it hits a mid-point threshold or "breakover point" where suddenly the state is flipped from off to on and the light comes on.

It appears that small (less that .1 percent) variations in solar energy happen in roughly 1500-year cycles. This cycle, for example, is what brought us the "Little Ice Age" that started around the year 1400 and dramatically cooled North America and Europe (we're now in the warming phase, recovering from that). When the ice in the Arctic Ocean is frozen solid and locked up, and the glaciers on Greenland are relatively stable, this variation warms and cools the Earth in a very small way, but doesn't affect the operation of the Great Conveyor Belt that brings moderating warm water into the North Atlantic.

In millennia past, however, before the Arctic totally froze and locked up, and before some critical threshold amount of fresh water was locked up in the Greenland and other glaciers, these 1500-year variations in solar energy didn't just slightly warm up or cool down the weather for the landmasses bracketing the North Atlantic. They flipped on and off periods of total glaciation and periods of temperate weather.

And these changes came suddenly."

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0130-11.htm

So sudden changes can happen without fossil fuels! Amazing!

Rock

[Shonsu]

I find it very interesting how people seem to be talking about global warming while it is a fact that temperatures around the globe are cooler than they have been in decades, with records being broken world-wide. In fact, I've read some scientific journals that actually theorize that global warming can cause an "ice age". Well, which is it? If we have an ice age, I can promise you it isn't because of global warming (duh!).

Here is some of this banter:

"...an international group of scientists went to Greenland and used newly developed drilling and sensing equipment to drill into some of the world's most ancient accessible glaciers. Their instruments were so sensitive that when they analyzed the ice core samples they brought up, they were able to look at individual years of snow. The results were shocking.

Prior to the last decades, it was thought that the periods between glaciations and warmer times in North America, Europe, and North Asia were gradual. We knew from the fossil record that the Great Ice Age period began a few million years ago, and during those years there were times where for hundreds or thousands of years North America, Europe, and Siberia were covered with thick sheets of ice year-round. In between these icy times, there were periods when the glaciers thawed, bare land was exposed, forests grew, and land animals (including early humans) moved into these northern regions.

Most scientists figured the transition time from icy to warm was gradual, lasting dozens to hundreds of years, and nobody was sure exactly what had caused it. (Variations in solar radiation were suspected, as were volcanic activity, along with early theories about the Great Conveyor Belt, which, until recently, was a poorly understood phenomenon.)

Looking at the ice cores, however, scientists were shocked to discover that the transitions from ice age-like weather to contemporary-type weather usually took only two or three years. Something was flipping the weather of the planet back and forth with a rapidity that was startling.

It turns out that the ice age versus temperate weather patterns weren't part of a smooth and linear process, like a dimmer slider for an overhead light bulb. They are part of a delicately balanced teeter-totter, which can exist in one state or the other, but transits through the middle stage almost overnight. They more resemble a light switch, which is off as you gradually and slowly lift it, until it hits a mid-point threshold or "breakover point" where suddenly the state is flipped from off to on and the light comes on.

It appears that small (less that .1 percent) variations in solar energy happen in roughly 1500-year cycles. This cycle, for example, is what brought us the "Little Ice Age" that started around the year 1400 and dramatically cooled North America and Europe (we're now in the warming phase, recovering from that). When the ice in the Arctic Ocean is frozen solid and locked up, and the glaciers on Greenland are relatively stable, this variation warms and cools the Earth in a very small way, but doesn't affect the operation of the Great Conveyor Belt that brings moderating warm water into the North Atlantic.

In millennia past, however, before the Arctic totally froze and locked up, and before some critical threshold amount of fresh water was locked up in the Greenland and other glaciers, these 1500-year variations in solar energy didn't just slightly warm up or cool down the weather for the landmasses bracketing the North Atlantic. They flipped on and off periods of total glaciation and periods of temperate weather.

And these changes came suddenly."

http://www.commondreams.org/views04/0130-11.htm

So sudden changes can happen without fossil fuels! Amazing!

Rock



"Professing to be wise, they became fools" (Romans 1:22, NKJV)

On a side note, the article mentions ice core samples from Greenland. Here's a great article that refutes the claim of long time spans that scientists claim from the ice cores: http://www.answersingenesis.org/tj/v15/i3/greenland.asp.

[HumanityisSaved]

The Global Warming myth is the greatest hoax of our time and it is simply about power and money... the power needed to control best comes from fear. People are more willing to turn over their freedom if they FEAR that they will suffer in not turning over their precious freedom. Just look at the Patriot Act.

The other thing is money. Europe is already collecting a "carbon tax". Al Gore was supposed to testify in Washington on the urgency of combating man made global warming but there was too much ice and snow in Washington to do it.

O Lord that we would take back our freedom.

[Genna14]

Humans won't destroy the world, God will. What's everyone so worried about?

[The Unknown Gomer]

The Global Warming myth is the greatest hoax of our time...

It seems that one can find equal arguments online and in the news saying both that it's real and saying it's a hoax.

However, the ice at both the north and south poles is showing some serious shrinkage, more than the norm. The oceans are rising, more than the norm. And the oceans are getting warmer in places, causing rising populations of critters like jellyfish that never lived there before.

Based on things like that, I'd say that things are heating up a bit, myself. It may be man made, or it may be just nature cycling through what it does. But stuff IS happening.

Humans won't destroy the world, God will. What's everyone so worried about?

I figure that the humans will make a real mess out of the earth before God ever gets a hold of it. The climate changes, things go extinct as a result, the whole ecosystem gets out of whack. But nobody does anything to prevent it, because well, all this stuff is just something someone made up. Oh well.

[HumanityisSaved]

It seems that one can find equal arguments online and in the news saying both that it's real and saying it's a hoax.

However, the ice at both the north and south poles is showing some serious shrinkage, more than the norm. The oceans are rising, more than the norm. And the oceans are getting warmer in places, causing rising populations of critters like jellyfish that never lived there before.

Based on things like that, I'd say that things are heating up a bit, myself. It may be man made, or it may be just nature cycling through what it does. But stuff IS happening.



I figure that the humans will make a real mess out of the earth before God ever gets a hold of it. The climate changes, things go extinct as a result, the whole ecosystem gets out of whack. But nobody does anything to prevent it, because well, all this stuff is just something someone made up. Oh well.

Just recently a group of scientists warned that we were on the eve of a new ice age. In Greenland where Glaciers have receded (in other places they are growing) TREE STUMPS have been discovered. So it must have been warm enough in GREENLAND to grow trees sometime in the past.

The worst greehouse gas is co2 the greatest source of co2 is forest fires. The majority of the huge forest fires that emmit most of NASA's observered co2 are in South America not the USA.

As for Arctic ice it grew by 9% last year. That is like saying it grew by the size of MONTANA or Germany.

Arctic sea ice extent on July 16 stood at 8.91 million square kilometers (3.44 square miles). While extent was below the 1979 to 2000 average of 9.91 square kilometers (3.83 million square miles), it was 1.05 million square kilometers (0.41 million square miles) above the value for July 16, 2007...


If the world is warming (which it has been for the last 12,000 years) it is certainly not our doing .Besides who says the current earth temp is ideal. Who do we think we are? Maybe the ideal temp is 100f. The last 100 years have seen less than a full degree of temp increase overall.

It is a hoax designed to scare you out of your freedom and money.

[Pouye]

It seems that one can find equal arguments online and in the news saying both that it's real and saying it's a hoax.

However, the ice at both the north and south poles is showing some serious shrinkage, more than the norm. The oceans are rising, more than the norm. And the oceans are getting warmer in places, causing rising populations of critters like jellyfish that never lived there before.

Based on things like that, I'd say that things are heating up a bit, myself. It may be man made, or it may be just nature cycling through what it does. But stuff IS happening.


I don't have any problems with scientific measurements; and of course stuff is happening -- it always has been happening. The temperature of the earth has shifted back and forth for eons. And yes, I am also very pro-recycle, anti-waste, and I believe that pollution is something that needs to completely eradicated if at all possible. But there just isn't any real scientific "proof" that it is people who are causing the changes, but there is a MOUNTAIN of scientific evidence showing that major changes to the temperature of the earth has occurred naturally and is still occurring naturally.


I figure that the humans will make a real mess out of the earth before God ever gets a hold of it. The climate changes, things go extinct as a result, the whole ecosystem gets out of whack. But nobody does anything to prevent it, because well, all this stuff is just something someone made up. Oh well.

Again, nobody is saying not to do anything about pollution. Pollution should always be something that everyone should do something about whether it is heating up the earth, cooling it down, or not contributing anything at all to the temperature of the earth.

Rock

[lori56]

Oh, I just think Mother Earth is going through menopause and she's having HOT FLASHES!!!!

[The Unknown Gomer]

Oh, I just think Mother Earth is going through menopause and she's having HOT FLASHES!!!!

:P

Like I said, there's oodles of facts and figures showing support of both sides of the argument, and it just depends on whose facts and figures one believes.

But as far as WE'RE concerned, it doesn't really matter anyway, there was another article in the paper this morning saying that we could completely stop poisoning the atmosphere today, and it would still take another 300 years to get things back to "normal".

I guess we're just doooomed. ;)

[BeGlorifiedInMe]

Oh, I just think Mother Earth is going through menopause and she's having HOT FLASHES!!!!

ROFLOL! :D

[Pouye]

"The National Science Board's Patterns and Perspectives in Environmental Science report of 1972 discussed the cyclical behavior of climate, and the understanding at the time that the planet was entering a phase of cooling after a warm period. "Judging from the record of the past interglacial ages, the present time of high temperatures should be drawing to an end, to be followed by a long period of considerably colder temperatures leading into the next glacial age some 20,000 years from now."

(Patterns and Perspectives in Environmental Science (Hardcover). Report of the National Science Board. Government Printing Office. 1972. pp. 55.)

There was observable global cooling between 1945 and 1975, and this spawned these sorts of reports from leading scientists. Now scientists are playing a different tune, and they continue to discredit the work done by these early scientists as just ignorance. It is funny that whoever are the leading scientists of any time period consider the others before them inferior and ignorant.

Rock