Iran's president on Christmas...

[Evanescence]

http://news.aol.com/article/from-iran-merry-xmas-bullying-powers/286882

LONDON (Dec. 24) - Iran's president is offering season's greetings to Christians in a British TV address and suggests that if Jesus were alive, he would oppose "bullying, ill-tempered and expansionist powers" — an apparent reference to the U.S. and its allies.
Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's Christmas Day broadcast will be delivered on Britain's Channel 4 television, occupying a slot that provides an often controversial counterpoint to Queen Elizabeth II's traditional annual message, the station said Wednesday. A leading British Jewish body said it was appalled.

According to a transcript released in advance, Ahmadinejad says most of the world's problems stem from leaders who have turned against religion. The Muslim president doesn't refer to rival nations or leaders by name or mention Israel, despite his past calls to wipe it out.

"If Christ were on earth today, undoubtedly he would hoist the banner of justice and love for humanity to oppose warmongers, occupiers, terrorists and bullies the world over," Ahmadinejad said, according to the English translation of the Farsi-language speech. The broadcast will air with subtitles.
The U.S., Britain and others suspect Iran of developing nuclear weapons, while Tehran insists its uranium enrichment program is intended solely for a civilian energy program.

Ties with Britain were further strained in 2007 when Iran held 15 British sailors and marines prisoner for 13 days.
The Board of Deputies of British Jews — which represents the Jewish community in the United Kingdom — said the broadcast was offensive. "To invite him to deliver a Christmas message, even a so-called alternative one, fills me with disgust," said the group's president, Henry Grunwald.
The Israeli ambassador to London condemned the speech as a "bogus message of good will."

"That (Channel 4) should give an unchallenged platform to the president of a regime which denies the Holocaust, advocates the destruction of the sovereign state of Israel, funds and encourages terrorism, executes children and hangs gay people is a disgrace," Ron Prosor said. "Outrage doesn't begin to explain it."

--------------------------------------------

I agree with him...the US Govt and Israel cannot be trusted and are bullies...

[Jesuslove]

http://news.aol.com/article/from-iran-merry-xmas-bullying-powers/286882

LONDON (Dec. 24) - Iran's president is offering season's greetings to Christians in a British TV address and suggests that if Jesus were alive, he would oppose "bullying, ill-tempered and expansionist powers" — an apparent reference to the U.S. and its allies.
...
--------------------------------------------

I agree with him...the US Govt and Israel cannot be trusted and are bullies...

I agree too. Hopefully with the dawn of the Obama administration, there will be a new tone in US international relations. Frankly, I think Ahmadinejad isn't a civil rights champion, but maybe with international dialogue, things may change.

[Sam!]

First, Jesus Christ is here.

Secondly, when he was bodily present in human form, there was a lot of oppression and occupation and injustice. He didn't "champion" anything earthly then, and I wouldn't personally hazard a guess as to what God "would" do "if" he were here.

[Aussie3rddayfan]

This world is tired of war. It's a pity we will never see the end of it on this earth.

[Buttabean]

This world is tired of war. It's a pity we will never see the end of it on this earth.


True enough. Which is why I wonder why the US gets itself mettled in the Middle East's affairs. War there won't go away--quit pretending the US can fix it!

[Howlin' Wolf]

there are currently 2 wars in the Middle East. The one in Iraq, in which we started, and the one in Israel, in which we funded.

[cheewiee]

there are currently 2 wars in the Middle East. The one in Iraq, in which we started, and the one in Israel, in which we funded.

Thats not entirely accurate... There is alot of conflict in the Middle east that we have very little to do with. Like the Kurds in Turkey... And for the most part the voilence in Iraq, is only because we removed the brutal Hussein Regeme from Iraq. The primary agressors now are the Sunni and Shia fighting each other.

[Jesuslove]

Thats not entirely accurate... There is alot of conflict in the Middle east that we have very little to do with. Like the Kurds in Turkey... And for the most part the voilence in Iraq, is only because we removed the brutal Hussein Regeme from Iraq. The primary agressors now are the Sunni and Shia fighting each other.

While I agree, the Kurdish-Turkish feud is not a war. Overnight, Israel attacked Gaza. Early reports put casualties at 155. I doubt the US will condemn Israel for their latest action. In the long run, I fear Israel will get us sucked into a war. Hopefully the Obama administration will not be as closely aligned with Israel as have previous administrations.

[cheewiee]

While I agree, the Kurdish-Turkish feud is not a war. Overnight, Israel attacked Gaza. Early reports put casualties at 155. I doubt the US will condemn Israel for their latest action. In the long run, I fear Israel will get us sucked into a war. Hopefully the Obama administration will not be as closely aligned with Israel as have previous administrations.

Can you name three conflicts in the past two decades that didn't involve Muslims?

[rossid]

I'm sure someone can but don't care because 90% ARE Islamic.

Then nine percent are dicatorial in nature and one percent miscellaneous.

[Jesuslove]

Can you name three conflicts in the past two decades that didn't involve Muslims?


war in the Congo
civil war in Guatemala
war between Croatia and Serbia...

the fist three that came to my mind.

and just because Muslims are involved in a war, doesn't make it the fault of the Muslims. For example, Christian Serbs attacked the Muslim Bosnians and tortured and killed civilians.

[cheewiee]

war in the Congo
civil war in Guatemala
war between Croatia and Serbia...

the fist three that came to my mind.

and just because Muslims are involved in a war, doesn't make it the fault of the Muslims. For example, Christian Serbs attacked the Muslim Bosnians and tortured and killed civilians.

Croatia and Serbia did involve muslims....

[Jesuslove]

Croatia and Serbia did involve muslims....

Bosnia and Serbia involved Muslims (the Bosnians). Croatia is mainly Catholic and Serbia is mainly Christian Prodestant.

[cheewiee]

Bosnia and Serbia involved Muslims (the Bosnians). Croatia is mainly Catholic and Serbia is mainly Christian Prodestant.

This conflict all came out of the disolution of Yugoslovia, of which Bosnia was part.

[bholdj]

http://news.aol.com/article/from-iran-merry-xmas-bullying-powers/286882

LONDON (Dec. 24) - Iran's president is offering season's greetings to Christians in a British TV address and suggests that if Jesus were alive, he would oppose "bullying, ill-tempered and expansionist powers" ..

Im not saying I agree with our current foreign policy, and Jesus did tell Pilate that His Kingdom was "not of this world, or else his servants would fight." But the President of Iran seemed to miss something. Last i checked the next time Jesus comes in visible form (praise God hes already here in our hearts and minds). He won't be as passive as the Iranian pres is making him out to be

Rev 19:11-14
11 "Now I saw heaven opened, and behold, a white horse. And He who sat on him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness He judges and makes war. 12 His eyes were like a flame of fire, and on His head were many crowns. He had[e] a name written that no one knew except Himself. 13 He was clothed with a robe dipped in blood, and His name is called The Word of God." 14

[Pouye]

Hopefully the Obama administration will not be as closely aligned with Israel as have previous administrations.

Do you know this is exactly why hijackers slammed jets into the Twin Towers? They wanted what you just said. They want the USA to stop being allies with Israel and turn a blind eye so they can have the big green light to kill every last Jew and take over Palestine for themselves. The world has always wanted to kill every last Jew, because they are still God's chosen people:

"Many of the Jews are now enemies of the Good News. But this has been to your benefit, for God has given his gifts to you Gentiles. Yet the Jews are still his chosen people because of his promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For God's gifts and his call can never be withdrawn."
Romans 11:28-

It is inevitable that the USA will do as you say. Even though this is part of the sovereign plan of God, it will still be a mistake for the USA, just like the holocaust was a mistake for the German armies and other national armies that participated in Jewish genocide.

Rock

[Howlin' Wolf]

Do you know this is exactly why hijackers slammed jets into the Twin Towers? They wanted what you just said. They want the USA to stop being allies with Israel and turn a blind eye so they can have the big green light to kill every last Jew and take over Palestine for themselves. The world has always wanted to kill every last Jew, because they are still God's chosen people:


We know it was al-qaeda because the FBI found Mohammad Atta's passport in the wreckage. :rolleyes:

maybe one of these days I'll get a response to Galatians 3. I'm not counting on it though.

[Jesuslove]

Do you know this is exactly why hijackers slammed jets into the Twin Towers? They wanted what you just said. They want the USA to stop being allies with Israel and turn a blind eye so they can have the big green light to kill every last Jew and take over Palestine for themselves. The world has always wanted to kill every last Jew, because they are still God's chosen people:

"Many of the Jews are now enemies of the Good News. But this has been to your benefit, for God has given his gifts to you Gentiles. Yet the Jews are still his chosen people because of his promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For God's gifts and his call can never be withdrawn."
Romans 11:28-

It is inevitable that the USA will do as you say. Even though this is part of the sovereign plan of God, it will still be a mistake for the USA, just like the holocaust was a mistake for the German armies and other national armies that participated in Jewish genocide.

Rock

What about the Palestinean genocide? Are Palestinean Christians and Muslims any less worthy as human beings??

[Howlin' Wolf]

What about the Palestinean genocide? Are Palestinean Christians and Muslims any less worthy as human beings??

Since Israel is chosen and since theyve suffered so much in their history and since they have a natural right to the land, christians should support them no matter how many terrorist children the massacre. They are just to do whatever pleased. It doesnt matter how many state sponsored abortions they allow female military personnel to get. God made a promise to all Jews. They are better than other humans. God loves them more. And since the promise he made them was conditional on whether they follow him or not, they must be faithful now because He gave them their land back. They have to exterminate arabs, that way they can blow that mosque up that sits on the temple mount and rebuild the temple! The temple must be rebuilt so that Christ can come back and reinstitute the law and animal sacrifices to atone for sin. So we must support them!! Its in the BIBLE!

[HotWireD]

Since Israel is chosen and since theyve suffered so much in their history and since they have a natural right to the land, christians should support them no matter how many terrorist children the massacre. They are just to do whatever pleased. It doesnt matter how many state sponsored abortions they allow female military personnel to get. God made a promise to all Jews. They are better than other humans. God loves them more. And since the promise he made them was conditional on whether they follow him or not, they must be faithful now because He gave them their land back. They have to exterminate arabs, that way they can blow that mosque up that sits on the temple mount and rebuild the temple! The temple must be rebuilt so that Christ can come back and reinstitute the law and animal sacrifices to atone for sin. So we must support them!! Its in the BIBLE!


Good post.
It frightens me how accurate and candid it is, but correct from the Holy Bible perspective of many Christians and Jews.


... they must be faithful now because He gave them their land back.

That is the only bit I feel is debateable - the Government of the United Kingdom caved in to terrorism (and pressure from the United States?) and gave Palestine to the Jews who then renamed it Israel.

Israel is a people not a country, Biblically. Israel the people have a proud history that goes back to the beginning of time - Israel the country is not yet 100 years old.

[phil_ur_friend]

. :rolleyes:

maybe one of these days I'll get a response to Galatians 3. I'm not counting on it though.

Talk about tunnel vision... I love Galations...But dude, there are other chapters and other books in the Bible.

Phil

[phil_ur_friend]

Deuteronomy 14:2
For thou art a holy people unto the LORD thy God, and the LORD hath chosen thee to be a peculiar people unto Himself above all the nations that are upon the earth.

Romans 11:4
But what saith the answer of God unto him? "I have reserved to Myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal."


7What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for but the election hath obtained it...

Isaiah 49
26And I will feed them that oppress thee with their own flesh, and they shall be drunken with their own blood as with sweet wine. And all flesh shall know that I, the LORD, am thy Savior and thy Redeemer, the Mighty One of Jacob."


Phil, your friend

[Valpo]

funny you pop off about election here and then say we all can choose our own paths....

luckily grace allows for such inconsistencies

[Valpo]

What's funny is that I have never reffered to your highly intelligent posts as "popping off".

Tell me teacher, is this consistent with the material you feed to your less than fortunate congregation?





Phil,

You don't provide context for anything, you just post scripture as a way to proof text when the proof texting you're doing really doesn't do anything to help your cause. I'll retract popping off, but random seems like a decent fit for what you do.

I'm also not a pastor. Just a layman student working towards what God has placed in front of me

[phil_ur_friend]

Phil,
You don't provide context for anything, you just post scripture as a way to proof text when the proof texting you're doing really doesn't do anything to help your cause.


Context is found in the Bible; as a rule to myself (for the sake of context), I read the chapter and oftentimes the previous and following chapters from which a particular Bible verse is extracted.

IMO, anyone who studies the Bible should do so.

You seem to be an intelligent person (differing opinion from my own...yes),still intelligent.

As an intelligent human, I expect your first response to a Bible verse would be to find it in context(read the surrounding material), then...ponder

It is absurd to state that I am not including context, when all Books, Chapters, and Verses are in clear view...

Unless I am to now believe that you are unable to do a little "hands-on" research,
I will not be compelled to clog these boards with page after page of continuous scripture.

Phil, your friend

[Pouye]

Since Israel is chosen and since theyve suffered so much in their history and since they have a natural right to the land, christians should support them no matter how many terrorist children the massacre. They are just to do whatever pleased. It doesnt matter how many state sponsored abortions they allow female military personnel to get. God made a promise to all Jews. They are better than other humans. God loves them more. And since the promise he made them was conditional on whether they follow him or not, they must be faithful now because He gave them their land back. They have to exterminate arabs, that way they can blow that mosque up that sits on the temple mount and rebuild the temple! The temple must be rebuilt so that Christ can come back and reinstitute the law and animal sacrifices to atone for sin. So we must support them!! Its in the BIBLE!

Israel was and still is chosen. God's promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob will stand always, just as Paul said in Romans 11. The Hebrews (Jews) are still God's chosen people. They were God's chosen people while in Egypt slaving away, and while in Babylonia, too. They were God's chosen people when they were under the power of the Assyrians and the Romans, too. They were God's chosen people whether in their own land promised to them, or in captivity. And they are still God's chosen people, and the land is still promised to them -- that is what the Bible says:

"The LORD said to Abram after Lot had parted from him, “Lift up your eyes from where you are and look north and south, east and west. All the land that you see I will give to you and your offspring forever. I will make your offspring like the dust of the earth, so that if anyone could count the dust, then your offspring could be counted. Go, walk through the length and breadth of the land, for I am giving it to you.”
Genesis 13:14-

"Many of the Jews are now enemies of the Good News. But this has been to your benefit, for God has given his gifts to you Gentiles. Yet the Jews are still his chosen people because of his promises to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob. For God's gifts and his call can never be withdrawn."
Romans 11:28-

Now I have firmly establish with Scripture that Israel (the Jews) are still God's chosen people (as differentiated from the Gentiles), and God has promised a land to Abraham and his descendants forever. The promise to Abraham was UNCONDITIONAL. The promise to prosper in the Promised Land was conditional to each generation, but the promise of the land to Abraham's descendants was UNCONDITIONAL. They do not have a "natural" right to the land, but rather a promise from God. That is far better than any natural right:

"They will live in the land of Israel where their ancestors lived, the land I gave my servant Jacob. They and their children and their grandchildren after them will live there forever, generation after generation. And my servant David will be their prince forever. And I will make a covenant of peace with them, an everlasting covenant. I will give them their land and multiply them, and I will put my Temple among them forever. I will make my home among them. I will be their God, and they will be my people. And since my Temple will remain among them forever, the nations will know that I, the LORD, have set Israel apart for myself to be holy.”
Ezekiel 37:25-

First off, the Jews have suffered so much because they are God's chosen people. Yes, much of what they have suffered was because of their own disobedience, but they were (and still are) a people set apart as holy to the Lord. Many times there have been campaigns to destroy them, and yet God has always preserved for Himself a remnant to repopulate and inhabit the land He promised to Abraham and his descendants forever.

Now, as far as God giving them back their land, God doesn't just do things for the Jews when they are faithful. God allowed the Jews to possess and expand the Holy Land a very long time, even when they were unfaithful and had wicked kings. God is gracious to His people, and patient with them. They are not "better" than any other people on earth, but they are certainly chosen because of God's promise to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. That means God deals with them differently. That is what "set apart" or "holy" means. No other people group on the earth is promised land. None. All of the land that every other nation possesses is up for grabs. All of it. Anyone who can take it and hold it has the right to do it. Just ask the Native Americans about this issue, and you will see that is exactly what happened in American history. Israelis were given a chunk of land, they were attacked, and they expanded their borders. It just so happens it is the same chunk of land (more or less... actually much less) then was promised to their descendants by God. How they took it doesn't matter, just like it doesn't matter for Americans. The "English" came and robbed the Native Americans of most of "thier" land (at least ancestrally), and now there is no "undo" button.

As far the rest, the Dome of the Rock is not in the way of rebuilding the Third Temple. That has already been proven. The Dome of the Rock is not in alignment with the East Gate, but rather it sits in the outer courts to the south (an interesting side note: see Revelation 11:2, and Ezekiel 40:2). There is plenty of room on the Temple Mount to build the Third Temple right now. They don't have to exterminate any Arabs to do it, but rather reach an agreement.

As far as the Temple being rebuilt so Christ can come back, it does say (unless Paul's prophecy is wrong), that the Antichrist will exalt himself in the Temple before Christ returns:

"Don't let anyone deceive you in any way, for that day [Christ's Return] will not come until the rebellion occurs and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the man doomed to destruction. He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God."
2 Thessalonians 2:3-

I believe Paul, not Howlin' Wolf. Paul said that before Christ returns (that is the context of 2 Thessalonians) that a "man of lawlessness", aka the Antichrist, will set himself up in God's temple. That means there needs to be "God's temple" (at least constructed enough to do such a thing) in Jerusalem before Christ returns.

Also, as far as the Jews reinstating the sacrifices, they will not be for atonement of sin. We already know that. They will only be free-will offerings. Not all offering were for atonement of sin, even under the Old Covenant. The Feast of Tabernacles is a good example. It was basically a huge feast in honor of God that lasted a week. God tells us in Zechariah 14:16 this:

"Then the survivors from all the nations that have attacked Jerusalem will go up year after year to worship the King, the LORD Almighty, and to celebrate the Feast of Tabernacles."

This is exactly what will happen. The many of Arab nations (at least) will attack Jerusalem before Christ returns. They will also mostly succeed in their attack (for a time), just as prophesied. But when Christ returns, He will turn the tide on the attackers. It's all written in many of the prophecies in the Old Testament, but many do not care to believe that the prophecies of the Old Testament will really come true just as God declares because it doesn't jive with their theology!

I didn't say we must support everything Israel does as a nation. I just said we better not fight them, or turn a blind eye to them (as their ally) if they are about to be laid waste. God always judged every nation who attacked Israel and/or stood by and did nothing, even if they could help.

Rock

[phil_ur_friend]

I didn't say we must support everything Israel does as a nation. I just said we better not fight them, or turn a blind eye to them (as their ally) if they are about to be laid waste. God always judged every nation who attacked Israel and/or stood by and did nothing, even if they could help.

Rock

Amen...!!!

This is why America would be in big trouble if it ever surrendered power to a President who secretly worships Allah (not God). :eek:

Phil, your friend

[Evanescence]

Rock...Israel is NOT what you are describing or meaning. Israel is NOT a Jewish state....it is a ZIONIST state. Imposters.

All the Bible verses int he world dont apply because the true Israel hasnt been give back to the true jews yet. This is why the true Jews reject Israel as it exists today....

[Evanescence]

Amen...!!!

This is why America would be in big trouble if it ever surrendered power to a President who secretly worships Allah (not God). :eek:

Phil, your friend


Please...you know this how?

Provide some proof for this....

[phil_ur_friend]

Please...you know this how?

Provide some proof for this....

This is why America would be in big trouble if it ever surrendered power to a President who secretly worships Allah (not God).

I said "if"...
I have my suspicions,
as well as a lifetime of reading prophecy...
so, I guess, all we can do is wait and see.

Phil, your friend

[bholdj]

This is why America would be in big trouble if it ever surrendered power to a President who secretly worships Allah (not God).


One question, if he "secretly" is a Muslim. How the heck you know this? The Secret service let the cat out of the bag? Or are we believing internet rumors again?

I didn't vote for Barack, and im a Christian. But the Barack is a "secret" Muslim assertion is madness and is so last year.

[phil_ur_friend]

One question, if he "secretly" is a Muslim. How the heck you know this? The Secret service let the cat out of the bag? Or are we believing internet rumors again?

I didn't vote for Barack, and im a Christian. But the Barack is a "secret" Muslim assertion is madness and is so last year.

How about you read my post again and see if you are capable of differentiating between words that are
(italicized,
emboldened,
and underlined)...
and words that are not.

Go ahead...

Read it.

Phil, your friend

[Jesuslove]

One question, if he "secretly" is a Muslim. How the heck you know this? The Secret service let the cat out of the bag? Or are we believing internet rumors again?

I didn't vote for Barack, and im a Christian. But the Barack is a "secret" Muslim assertion is madness and is so last year.

There is no way. Barack is not a Muslim. These are typical right wing scare tactics.

[Pouye]

There is no way. Barack is not a Muslim. These are typical right wing scare tactics.

Technically, he is a Muslim, according to tradition -- since he was born of a Muslim father.

But hey, according to most Islamic scholars, we were all born Muslims:

"The Prophet Muhammad said, "No babe is born but upon Fitra (as a Muslim). It is his parents who make him a Jew or a Christian or a Polytheist." (Sahih Muslim, Book 033, Number 6426)

Rock

[Howlin' Wolf]

Galatians 3

Lets keep ignoring this because it doesnt kive with our theology.

[Pouye]

Galatians 3

Lets keep ignoring this because it doesnt kive with our theology.

Let's keep ignoring Romans 11 because Galatians 3 isn't about Replacement Theology but about including Gentiles in the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, rather than annulling them for the Jews.

Rock

[Howlin' Wolf]

Let's keep ignoring Romans 11 because Galatians 3 isn't about Replacement Theology but about including Gentiles in the promises to Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, rather than annulling them for the Jews.

Rock


It most certainly doesnt include the jewish inhabitants of modern day Israel either. I'd expect better from a bible translator. The job requirements must be pretty slack.

[Pouye]

It most certainly doesnt include the jewish inhabitants of modern day Israel either. I'd expect better from a bible translator. The job requirements must be pretty slack.

I believe the Bible, not your insults:

"So do not be afraid, Jacob, my servant; do not be dismayed, Israel, says the LORD. For I will bring you home again from distant lands, and your children will return from their exile. Israel will return and will have peace and quiet in their own land, and no one will make them afraid. For I am with you and will save you, says the LORD. I will completely destroy the nations where I have scattered you, but I will not destroy you. But I must discipline you; I cannot let you go unpunished."
Jeremiah 30:10- (emphasis mine)

"Oh, how can I give you up, Israel? How can I let you go? How can I destroy you like Admah and Zeboiim? My heart is torn within me, and my compassion overflows. No, I will not punish you as much as my burning anger tells me to. I will not completely destroy Israel, for I am God and not a mere mortal. I am the Holy One living among you, and I will not come to destroy.
For someday the people will follow the LORD. I will roar like a lion, and my people will return trembling from the west. Like a flock of birds, they will come from Egypt. Flying like doves, they will return from Assyria. And I will bring them home again,” says the LORD."
Hosea 11:8- (emphasis mine)

"I ask, then, has God rejected his people, the Jews? Of course not!"
Romans 11:1- (emphasis mine)

"This message concerning the fate of Israel came from the LORD: “This message is from the LORD, who stretched out the heavens, laid the foundations of the earth, and formed the spirit within humans. I will make Jerusalem and Judah like an intoxicating drink to all the nearby nations that send their armies to besiege Jerusalem. On that day I will make Jerusalem a heavy stone, a burden for the world. None of the nations who try to lift it will escape unscathed."
Zechariah 12:1- (emphasis mine)

"Watch, for the day of the LORD is coming when your possessions will be plundered right in front of you! On that day I will gather all the nations to fight against Jerusalem."
Zechariah 14:1- (emphasis mine)

Rock

[Pouye]

It most certainly doesnt include the jewish inhabitants of modern day Israel either.

We will see about that... :)

Rock