Do you think this is "wrong"?

[Col. Mustard]

So for the past 3 months, I've been working for this online company that sells essay's. Student's give them thier prompts, I get it e-mailed or texted to me, I write it, send it in (usually I have 1-2 weeks) then get paid accordingly, depending on the lenght it needs to be, it's usually between $25-$50
I pick my topic's, I chose the book To Kill a Mockingbird b/c I know TKAM inside and out, and Of Mice and Men, because I needed more prompts. So, the people that buy these essay's are obviously cheating, but to tell you the honest truth, I really don't feel quilty, but I think that I probably should, you know, writting essay's for people and all. I just love to write, and my job isn't making me enough money to get through collage. My sister went and dropped out of collage twice, blowing every ounce of my brother's and my collage money. I can't take whatever money we raise again away from my brother, he's only 2 year's behind me, I have to get my own money, because I will NOT put myself before him.
I usually get about 6-10 essays a month, it dosn't take me long. A night to write, and one more to revise usualy.
Does anyone think this is wrong?
(don't yell at me, just want some opinions...);)

[rossid]

*breathes in and out*

I don't like it...

[ExtravagantlyLoved]

Do I think it's wrong? Yes, Jen, I do. Like you said, they're cheating. And you're helping them cheat.

I understand you wanting to make extra money. I'm having to take out loans to go to college, and I really don't like it, but if I'm going to go at this point in my life, it's really the only option. And it's also nice that it's something you like to do, that comes easily, but that doesn't make it right.

[ayfan]

sounds a bit dishonest to me.....

There are better ways of making money.

[NurseBettyLu]

The fact that you have doubts about it should be a red flag.

[truefan]

I think it is wrong. As a non traditional student who went to school part time and worked full time, I can fully appreciate my education and I did it on my own. If you like to write, why do you not look into writing short stories, or editorials, or something that does not require you to question the validity of your actions. I can appreciate your wanting to make money doing something you like - please find something else to do.

[TigerSpectator]

Since I honestly do believe it to be cheating (even though it is on the part of those paying you), it is wrong to do that.

To encourage or promote those who are cheating by your actions is in itself promoting cheating. And it is wrong to encourage, promote or prolong anyone who is cheating.

[Jason]

No, I don't thing it's "wrong." I think it's WRONG.

[calalily]

Yeah I also think it's not the right thing to do. However, you obviously have a talent & love for writing so why not put that gift to better use like trufan suggested.

[Genna14]

Yeah I also think it's not the right thing to do. However, you obviously have a talent & love for writing so why not put that gift to better use like trufan suggested.
Yeah. Do NaNoWriMo! LOL

I agree, it is very wrong. But, I suggest you seek the Lord on it.

[Aussie3rddayfan]

I do not believe you are helping these students in the long run. By helping them cheat you are not giving them the opportunity to learn from the assessment task that is supposed to be their work. What will they do in later life if they start being dishonest now? There's is no black and white area here. I suggest you go to the Lord in prayer and repent. :(

[Howlin' Wolf]

If you're essay writing is anything remotely close to the grammar and spelling of your posts, then you should refund everyone's money ASAP!!!!!!

[ausgirl]

If you're essay writing is anything remotely close to the grammar and spelling of your posts, then you should refund everyone's money ASAP!!!!!!
That's funny right there!!!

[ausgirl]

So for the past 3 months, I've been working for this online company that sells essay's. Student's give them thier prompts, I get it e-mailed or texted to me, I write it, send it in (usually I have 1-2 weeks) then get paid accordingly, depending on the lenght it needs to be, it's usually between $25-$50
I pick my topic's, I chose the book To Kill a Mockingbird b/c I know TKAM inside and out, and Of Mice and Men, because I needed more prompts. So, the people that buy these essay's are obviously cheating, but to tell you the honest truth, I really don't feel quilty, but I think that I probably should, you know, writting essay's for people and all. I just love to write, and my job isn't making me enough money to get through collage. My sister went and dropped out of collage twice, blowing every ounce of my brother's and my collage money. I can't take whatever money we raise again away from my brother, he's only 2 year's behind me, I have to get my own money, because I will NOT put myself before him.
I usually get about 6-10 essays a month, it dosn't take me long. A night to write, and one more to revise usualy.
Does anyone think this is wrong?
(don't yell at me, just want some opinions...);)
And to answer, it's wrong.

[YankeeGomer]

It's definitely wrong: almost all schools frown on students using that kind of thing and a lot of times they get caught, which often leads to dismissal from the program/school at the college level.

[Buttabean]

WRONG!!!!!

Even if you get caught, you could get in HUGE trouble for that. The students you're "helping" could get in trouble for that. Not to mention that you're not really doing them any favors. Once they graduate, who's gonna hold their hand while they're in a job field? NO ONE. This actually ticks me off quite a bit.

I understand the need for money for college, believe me. I'm $100,000 in debt from school, so I get it. But you NEED to find a more honest way of making your money. Just because its easy for you doesn't mean its right. If you like to write, see if you can't get on as some freelance writer for a magazine or the school newspaper.


*the student teacher 1 semester from graduating who catches kids cheating ON OPEN NOTE QUIZZES in her class all the time* :rolleyes:

[lilmikey]

total wrongness


I have a movie critique due on Napoleon Dynamite

[Billy Wilkins]

I see cheating every day---not that it's right. You could start a site where students send in their sloppy, pitifully written essays...you send them all the revision suggestions...they pay you for your service, and as they re-write their own, they learn in the process? Oh...you'd probably get no business. I know....why don't you start a site where you grade essays for busy teachers? I'd pay for that! Billy

[NurseBettyLu]

As a former teacher -- amen to that. Now, as a nurse, I'd pay you to do my charting for me. Oh, how I hate the paperwork.

[kiwisongbird]

Yup it's certainly wrong... I think you already know that...why don't you hire yourself out as a writing tutor? Only you would need to let people no thay yuo arent so good with the spulling! :) :)

[Sam!]

All right, I'll play along.

Everybody says that it's wrong but nobody's really provided a solid argument for it. It's easy to argue against something that feels icky to us, but I'll start a brief argument in favor of earning the $$$.

The basic definition of the verb "cheat" involves deception. Col Mustard isn't deceiving anybody! Except by using the screnname of a male character when she is not in fact a male.

There are, theoretically, legitimate uses for these essays. Since the students are not directly contacting her asking her to do their homework for them, what exactly is her responsibilty to ensure they are used in a licit manner?

I've done some computer service contracting. I know that one of my clients looks at porn - is it WRONG for me to fix his computer (and to profit from doing so) knowing he will use it for that purpose?

[Light Hearted]

All right, I'll play along.

Everybody says that it's wrong but nobody's really provided a solid argument for it. It's easy to argue against something that feels icky to us, but I'll start a brief argument in favor of earning the $$$.

The basic definition of the verb "cheat" involves deception. Col Mustard isn't deceiving anybody! Except by using the screnname of a male character when she is not in fact a male.

There are, theoretically, legitimate uses for these essays. Since the students are not directly contacting her asking her to do their homework for them, what exactly is her responsibilty to ensure they are used in a licit manner?

I've done some computer service contracting. I know that one of my clients looks at porn - is it WRONG for me to fix his computer (and to profit from doing so) knowing he will use it for that purpose?
Apples to oranges Sam. In your case scenario a computer can and is used for a multitude of services however in ColMustards case there is only one purpose and that is for her to basically do someone elses homework for them thus it is clear cut cheating and is WRONG end of story.

[lilmikey]

All right, I'll play along.

Everybody says that it's wrong but nobody's really provided a solid argument for it. It's easy to argue against something that feels icky to us, but I'll start a brief argument in favor of earning the $$$.

The basic definition of the verb "cheat" involves deception. Col Mustard isn't deceiving anybody! Except by using the screnname of a male character when she is not in fact a male.

There are, theoretically, legitimate uses for these essays. Since the students are not directly contacting her asking her to do their homework for them, what exactly is her responsibilty to ensure they are used in a licit manner?

I've done some computer service contracting. I know that one of my clients looks at porn - is it WRONG for me to fix his computer (and to profit from doing so) knowing he will use it for that purpose?
good point. Hey' I'd probably do it if I was a good writer to be honest with you. But I say that now, maybe not

that's a very good point Sam

[Sam!]

It's not apples to oranges. Somebody else is doing the cheating. I might agree with your or I might not (I'm not telling! Or maybe I'm not sure yet!) but you haven't made the case why it's wrong for her. And, as I said, there are potential uses for these papers that are not cheating.

[Light Hearted]

It's not apples to oranges. Somebody else is doing the cheating. I might agree with your or I might not (I'm not telling! Or maybe I'm not sure yet!) but you haven't made the case why it's wrong for her. And, as I said, there are potential uses for these papers that are not cheating.
What difference does it make if someone else is doing the cheating or if she is aiding and abetting them to do so? It is still cheating and is wrong. In all honesty I really don't see a comparison between fixing someones computer whom may or may not be using it to look up pornography because there isn't a direct link between you fixing the computer and that person using it for such purposes. In this case there is a direct link because she is actually writing the paper for the express purpose of allowing someone else to cheat on their homework.

[Aussie3rddayfan]

It's not apples to oranges. Somebody else is doing the cheating. I might agree with your or I might not (I'm not telling! Or maybe I'm not sure yet!) but you haven't made the case why it's wrong for her. And, as I said, there are potential uses for these papers that are not cheating.

But these essays are being used for cheating. It encourages deception and laziness. Colour it whichever way you like, cheating will always be cheating. It's that simple.

[Sam!]

Sure. If somebody purchases a paper and turns it in as their own, that's cheating. Clear cut. But as I understand the arrangement, a company sends a request for a paper, with a prompt. She writes the paper, turns it in to the company, and gets paid by the company. None of that is unethical. The cheating comes in later.

[Light Hearted]

Sure. If somebody purchases a paper and turns it in as their own, that's cheating. Clear cut. But as I understand the arrangement, a company sends a request for a paper, with a prompt. She writes the paper, turns it in to the company, and gets paid by the company. None of that is unethical. The cheating comes in later.
But, the fact is that it WILL happen later which still makes it wrong.

[Billy Wilkins]

Now I think companies that make paper should be out of business because someone might use that paper to write someone else's paper, so we should start a ban on Office Max. j/k :D

I'm just kidding around...I'm going to be a good politician and agree with everyone.

[lilmikey]

Now I think companies that make paper should be out of business because someone might use that paper to write someone else's paper, so we should start a ban on Office Max. j/k :D

I'm just kidding around...I'm going to be a good politician and agree with everyone.

and I guess they should outlaw guns too cause they can be used to kill someone:D :D

[truefan]

Ok my 2 cents worth. Plagerism is against most if not all educational institutions policy. If you know the paper you write is going to end up with the buyers name on it, you are helping that person to cheat. She is being an accessory to the crime. The crime is not buying the work it's putting their name on it and claiming ownership of the material. This is wrong on so many levels. If you know someone is going to rob a bank, and you drive the get away car, are you innocent since you did not rob the bank? JMO

[Sam!]

Ok my 2 cents worth. Plagerism is against most if not all educational institutions policy. If you know the paper you write is going to end up with the buyers name on it, you are helping that person to cheat. She is being an accessory to the crime. The crime is not buying the work it's putting their name on it and claiming ownership of the material. This is wrong on so many levels. If you know someone is going to rob a bank, and you drive the get away car, are you innocent since you did not rob the bank? JMO
A better comparison would be this:
If you *think* that somebody is going to rob a bank, but all they ask is for you to drive them *to* the bank is it WRONG for you to do so? Better yet, what if you're a driver for a car service - so the customer isn't paying you, and you don't actually know anything about them personally?

[truefan]

A better comparison would be this:
If you *think* that somebody is going to rob a bank, but all they ask is for you to drive them *to* the bank is it WRONG for you to do so? Better yet, what if you're a driver for a car service - so the customer isn't paying you, and you don't actually know anything about them personally?

Let's just agree to disagree.

[Sam!]

I'm just wondering where the standard is coming from, that's all. Lot's of things that feel wrong aren't always actually wrong. Everybody here was quick to point out that it was wrong but nobody's really given a firm basis for it.

[Light Hearted]

I'm just wondering where the standard is coming from, that's all. Lot's of things that feel wrong aren't always actually wrong. Everybody here was quick to point out that it was wrong but nobody's really given a firm basis for it.
There have actually been several firm reasons why this is wrong. You just chose to ignore them. There is only one reason that this service is being provided and that is to allow someone else to cheat on their homework which makes it ethically wrong. I fail to see how you can justify this as being ok and quite frankly IMHO you have not given a sound reason why it would be ok.

[Tony Trout]

One response:

W-R-O-N-G!

[Howlin' Wolf]

A better comparison would be this:
If you *think* that somebody is going to rob a bank, but all they ask is for you to drive them *to* the bank is it WRONG for you to do so? Better yet, what if you're a driver for a car service - so the customer isn't paying you, and you don't actually know anything about them personally?

whether you know they're robbing the bank or not, you will be charged by law.
Its the same as buying stolen goods.

[Jason]

Sure. If somebody purchases a paper and turns it in as their own, that's cheating. Clear cut. But as I understand the arrangement, a company sends a request for a paper, with a prompt. She writes the paper, turns it in to the company, and gets paid by the company. None of that is unethical. The cheating comes in later.

And the cheating does come in later. These web sites, and Jen by participating in them, are enabling cheating.

Jen, I highly suggest that if you want to make money writing, you find more noble ways to do so. Don't let Sam's philosophizing make you think that what you're doing is right.

[sandie]

Many institutions have internet checkers and can match the text to text on these cheat sites.

As a teacher and a Director of Studies, I don't mind if a student gets another to proofread their essay and points out spelling and grammatical errors. However, calling someone else's work your own is wrong. Many educational institutions insist that the student signs a statement that the essay has been written by them. The student caught using the work of another will be punished - often suspended - but the person from the cheat site won't be caught.

[Sam!]

There have actually been several firm reasons why this is wrong. You just chose to ignore them. There is only one reason that this service is being provided and that is to allow someone else to cheat on their homework which makes it ethically wrong. I fail to see how you can justify this as being ok and quite frankly IMHO you have not given a sound reason why it would be ok.

I'm not ignoring them. The reasons given have almost all been "duh, it's a no brainer, W-R-O-N-G" or "it's cheating." Cheating involves deceiving somebody for your own personal gain. I submit that Jen is not cheating anybody. She's delivering a legal product (writing) to a paying customer (the website).

So the argument is she's "supporting the idea of cheating" - that others will be able to cheat based on what she has done. Whether or not it's top on the marketing list, there are legitimate purposes for such papers. But she hasn't caused anybody to cheat. Enabling is not the same as causing. I'm asking, on what basis is it morally or ethically wrong for her to sell a legitimate product to a legitimate customer, based on what a 3rd party may do after it's re-sold?

Where's the line? Since there are some legitimate uses, just like a computer, where's the line? Since fixing my customer's computer was OK even though I knew he was going to look at porn with it, where's the line? At what point would it have been not oK? What if he called it his "porn computer"? Did I not enable his morally illicit activity by fixing it in the first place?

[Sam!]

I fail to see how you can justify this as being okSince we're discussing what I have and have not justified, my personal opinion is that it's at best a morally gray area that I would stay away from.

[lilmikey]

Since we're discussing what I have and have not justified, my personal opinion is that it's at best a morally gray area that I would stay away from.

I agree with your opinion. I considered selling some of my essays(from semesters ago). I am done with them why not sell them? I am considering it I haven't made a decision. The issue is most of the essays I did were on a personal level not a general level. Although I could sell a couple of research papers.

[Sam!]

I agree with your opinion. I considered selling some of my essays(from semesters ago). I am done with them why not sell them? I am considering it I haven't made a decision. The issue is most of the essays I did were on a personal level not a general level. Although I could sell a couple of research papers.
Then I don't think you agree with my opinion.

[Jason]

I still haven't conceded that it is inherently, objectively and decisively wrong and nobody here has put forward a convincing argument, or come up with a useful standard. So far, still seems arbitrary to me. X is wrong, Y is OK because it doesn't feel as icky.

But you did concede that you would probably stay away from it, which is what I'm suggesting Jen do.

[Light Hearted]

I'm not ignoring them. The reasons given have almost all been "duh, it's a no brainer, W-R-O-N-G" or "it's cheating." Cheating involves deceiving somebody for your own personal gain. I submit that Jen is not cheating anybody. She's delivering a legal product (writing) to a paying customer (the website).

So the argument is she's "supporting the idea of cheating" - that others will be able to cheat based on what she has done. Whether or not it's top on the marketing list, there are legitimate purposes for such papers. But she hasn't caused anybody to cheat. Enabling is not the same as causing. I'm asking, on what basis is it morally or ethically wrong for her to sell a legitimate product to a legitimate customer, based on what a 3rd party may do after it's re-sold?

Where's the line? Since there are some legitimate uses, just like a computer, where's the line? Since fixing my customer's computer was OK even though I knew he was going to look at porn with it, where's the line? At what point would it have been not oK? What if he called it his "porn computer"? Did I not enable his morally illicit activity by fixing it in the first place?
Ok, but unless you also provided your client with the software or links to pornographic sights then all you did was fix his computer. I'd also like to point out that is just one computer out of how many that you could potentially fix that don't have the aforementioned issue and you would have the right to refuse to fix it if you felt that strongly about it. In this particular case the scenario is always the same and that is allowing someone else to cheat. You say there are legitimate purposes for these papers. I'd like to know just what they are because I only see the one.

As far as your comment that she hasn't caused someone to cheat let me run this case scenario by you. Say I have a friend who asks me to drive him to the liquor store. He is of age to legally drink but doesn't have a car presently. Now, say I just so happen to know that he likes to throw parties for underage kids based on what you are saying if I were to grant his wish then I would be just fine and dandy even if a bunch of underage kids wound up drinking there because I didn't cause them to come to the party or drink right?

[Sam!]

Ok, but unless you also provided your client with the software or links to pornographic sights then all you did was fix his computer. I'd also like to point out that is just one computer out of how many that you could potentially fix that don't have the aforementioned issue and you would have the right to refuse to fix it if you felt that strongly about it. In this particular case the scenario is always the same and that is allowing someone else to cheat. You say there are legitimate purposes for these papers. I'd like to know just what they are because I only see the one.Actually he was pretty much my only client.

As far as your comment that she hasn't caused someone to cheat let me run this case scenario by you. Say I have a friend who asks me to drive him to the liquor store. He is of age to legally drink but doesn't have a car presently. Now, say I just so happen to know that he likes to throw parties for underage kids based on what you are saying if I were to grant his wish then I would be just fine and dandy even if a bunch of underage kids wound up drinking there because I didn't cause them to come to the party or drink right?The comparison doesn't work for me.

[JanetRN]

I don't think its wrong at all. If its not an illegal then why should it be wrong?

If you are being paid for a service, why should you be held accountable for what they do with it.

Its like saying, if ANY of you work at a retail store, and someone is buying a gun, if they use it illegally are you responsible?

I don't think you are cheating, they might be, but you shouldn't be responsible for their actions.


(Having said that... where do I apply?)

[Light Hearted]

The comparison doesn't work for me.
Well, then we agree on one thing because your comparison didn't work for me. You also have not answered my question as to what the legititmate uses for these papers would be.

[Sam!]

Well, then we agree on one thing because your comparison didn't work for me. You also have not answered my question as to what the legititmate uses for these papers would be.We could start with any legitimate use that also applies to the the purchase of any printed material: reading.

[Light Hearted]

We could start with any legitimate use that also applies to the the purchase of any printed material: reading.
Ok, but give me one that applies to this particular case scenario.

[mcgreen311]

The only other use I can think of is as pure examples of good essays. However, one would not need multiple essays written, and the company would likely have staff members to do so.

[lilmikey]

I don't think its wrong at all. If its not an illegal then why should it be wrong?

If you are being paid for a service, why should you be held accountable for what they do with it.

Its like saying, if ANY of you work at a retail store, and someone is buying a gun, if they use it illegally are you responsible?

I don't think you are cheating, they might be, but you shouldn't be responsible for their actions.


(Having said that... where do I apply?)

well prostitution is legal in some states and so is abortion, homosexuality ect. ect. but that doesn't make it the right thing to do does it? On this issue I am betwixt two opinions but the ole argument of its not illegal so it must not be wrong doesn't always work. In fact I would venture to say it never does.

[SacredHeart]

I don't think its wrong at all. If its not an illegal then why should it be wrong?

If you are being paid for a service, why should you be held accountable for what they do with it.

Its like saying, if ANY of you work at a retail store, and someone is buying a gun, if they use it illegally are you responsible?

I don't think you are cheating, they might be, but you shouldn't be responsible for their actions.


(Having said that... where do I apply?)

Abortion's legal, too. That argument presupposes that legal equals moral, which it does not.

In fact your retail store/gun analogy doesn't hold up either...



Honestly, people, I'm having a hard time comprehending why this is even a debatable subject. Not to mention why we're wasting our time playing devil's advocate when scripture does a better job of revealing truth. Sometimes I think our collective desire to exercise our thought processes becomes more important than simply speaking the truth to someone who's earnestly asking for truth.


Col. Mustard, let me just say that I respect you and understand that you're honestly asking the question. And so i'm going honestly answer it.

My dear, what you are doing is morally wrong because it is deceptive. You are knowingly providing material that is going to be used in a deceptive manner. This makes you morally culpable. There's no way you can pretend you are innocent because you don't know who the person is. You can't hide behind the curtain this "online company" provides. You know what you are doing: you are helping someone cheat and that is wrong.

The book of Proverbs speaks over and over about doing what is right and just and fair. It speaks of the evils of ill-gotten gain and the value of honor and integrity. I am tempted to begin quoting this marvelous book, but instead, I'd like to invite you to read it and let the words become life to you. God's ways are good and they lead to life. I appreciate how hard you are working to earn your degree, but I hope you'll do it in a way that honors both God and yourself. I promise you that if you will place His righteousness above your own needs, He will help you find a job that will not compromise your integrity.

[truefan]

Bravo Lilmikey and Sacred Heart. I think you said it well!

[phil_ur_friend]

Maybe there's more money in writing about the moral implications of cheating; you know- Shock Value :eek:
They'll pay the big bucks for that stuff- then you won't have to write as many... In turn, you'll feel better about yourself.:)


-Phil, your friend




P.S. (This member has been known to employ the use of sarcasm)

[lilmikey]

Maybe there's more money in writing about the moral implications of cheating; you know- Shock Value :eek:
They'll pay the big bucks for that stuff- then you won't have to write as many... In turn, you'll feel better about yourself.:)


-Phil, your friend




P.S. (This member has been known to employ the use of sarcasm)

I think you just met your match:D ;)

[phil_ur_friend]

I think you just met your match:D ;)

The more- the merrier.;)