PDA

View Full Version : Science in the Bible


Greyshades
07-08-2008, 04:31 AM
Let's set this record straight. The Scriptures speak for themselves.

~~~~~

"the birds of the air, and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas." ~Psalm 8:8

The Bible says, "...and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas". What does the Bible mean by, "the paths of the seas"? Man discovered the existence of ocean currents in the 1850s, but the Bible declared the science of oceanography 2,800 years ago. Matthew Maury (1806-1873) is considered the father of oceanography. He noticed the expression "paths of the sea" in Psalm 8:8. "If God said there are paths in the sea," Maury said, "I am going to find them." Maury took God at His Word and went looking for these paths. We are indebted to his discovery of the warm and cold continental currents. His book on oceanography remains a basic text on the subject and is still used in universities. Maury used the Bible as a guide to scientific discovery.


In the heavens he has pitched a tent for the sun, which is like a bridegroom coming forth from his pavilion, like a champion rejoicing to run his course. It rises at one end of the heavens and makes its circuit to the other; nothing is hidden from its heat. ~Psalm 19:4-6

In speaking of the sun, the psalmist says that "it rises at one end of the heavens and makes it's circuit to the other; nothing is hidden from it's heat." For many years critics scoffed at these verses, claiming that they taught the old false doctrine of geocentricity (i.e., the sun revolves around the earth). Scientists thought the sun was stationary. Then it was discovered in recent years that the sun is in fact moving through space at approximately 600,000 miles per hour. It is traveling through the heavens and has a "circuit" just as the Bible says. It's circuit is so large that it would take approximately 200 million years to complete one orbit.


By the word of the Lord were the heavens made, their starry host by the breath of his mouth. ~Psalm33:6 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array. ~Genesis 2:1

In Genesis, the Scripture says "the heavens and the earth were completed..." (Gen. 2:1). The original Hebrew uses the past definite tense for the verb "completed", indicating an action finished in the past, never again to occur. The creation was "completed"--once and for all. That is exactly what the First Law of Thermodynamics says. This law (often referred to as the Law of Conservation of Energy and/or Mass) states that neither matted nor energy can be either created or destroyed. It was because of this law that Sir Fred Hoyle's "Steady-State" (or "Continuous Creation") Theory was discarded. Hoyle stated that at points in the universe called "irtrons", matter (or energy) was constantly being created. But, the First Law states just the opposite. Indeed, there is no "creation" ongoing today. It is "completed" just as the bible states.


In his hand are the depths of the earth, and the mountain peaks belong to him. The sea is his, for he made it, and his hands formed the dry land. ~Psalm 95:4-5 To the roots of the mountains I sank down; the earth beneath barred me in forever. ~Jonah 2:6

Only in recent years has man discovered that there are mountains on the ocean floor. This was revealed in the Bible thousands of years ago. While deep in the ocean, Jonah cried, "To the roots of the mountains I sank down..." The reason the Bible and true science harmonize is that they have the same author.


In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded. ~Psalm 102:25-26

Three different places in the Bible (Isaiah 51:6; Psalm 102:25-26; Hebrews 1:11) indicate that the earth is wearing out. This is what the Second Law of Thermodynamics (the Law of Increasing Entropy) states: that in all physical processes, every ordered system over time tends to become more disordered. Everything is running down and wearing out as energy is becoming less and less available for use. This means that the universe will eventually "wear out" to the extent that (theoretically speaking) there will be a "heat death" and therefore no more energy available for use. This wasn't discovered by man until fairly recently, but the Bible states it in clear, succinct terms.


He wraps himself in light as with a garment; he stretches out the heavens like a tent ~Psalm 104:2

It is interesting to note that scientists are beginning to understand that the universe is expanding or stretching out. At least seven times in Scripture we are told that God stretches the heavens like a curtain (Isa. 40:22)


The moon marks off the seasons, and the sun knows when to go down. ~Psalm 104:19

God created the "lights" in the heavens "for signs, and for seasons, and for days and years" (Gen. 1:14). Through the marvels of astronomy we now understand that a year is the time required for the earth to travel once around the sun. The seasons are caused by the changing position of the earth in relation to the sun--"astronomers can tell exactly from the earth's motion around the sun when one season ends and the next one begins" (Worldbook Multimedia Encyclopedia). We also now understand that a "month the time of one revolution of the moon around the earth with respect to the sun" ([I]Encyclopedia Brittanica). How could Moses have known 3,500 years ago that the "lights" of the sun and moon were the actual determining factors of the year's length, unless his words were inspired by God?


He makes clouds rise from the ends of the earth; he sends lightning with the rain and brings out the wind from his storehouses. ~Psalm 135:7 All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. ~Ecclesiastes 1:7

The Mississippi River dumps approximately 6 million gallons of water per second into the Gulf of Mexico. Where does all that water go? That's just one of thousands of rivers.

The answer lies in the hydrologic cycle, so well brought out in the Bible. Ecclesiastes 11:3 states that "if the clouds be full of rain, they empty themselves upon the earth." Amos 9:6 tells us, "He...calls for the waters of the sea, and pours them out upon the face of the earth." The idea of a complete water cycle was not fully understood until the seventeenth century. However, more than 2,000 years prior to the discoveries of Pierre Perrault, Edme Mariotte, Edmund Hailey, and others, the Scripture clearly spoke of a water cycle.


"Have you ever given orders to the morning, or shown the dawn its place, ...The earth takes shape like clay under a seal; ~Job 38:12,14

For ages, scientists believed in a geocentric view of the universe. The differences between night and day were believed to be caused by the sun revolving around the earth. Today, we know that the earth's rotation on it's axis is responsible for the sun's rising and setting. But 4,000 or more years ago, God spoke to Job about it. The picture of a clay vessel being turned or rotated on the potter's wheel--an accurate analogy of the earth's rotation.

"The study of the Book of Job and it's comparison with the latest scientific discoveries has brought me to the matured conviction that the Bible is an inspired book and was written by the One who made the stars." Charles Burckhalter, Chabot Observatory


For the generations to come every male among you who is eight days old must be circumcised, ~Genesis 17:12

Babies are circumcised on the eighth day because this is the day that the coagulating factor in the blood, called prothrombin, is the highest. Medical science has discovered that this is when the human body's immune system is at it's peak.


And I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers; ~Gen. 3:15

Genesis 3:15 reveals that a female possesses a "seed" for childbearing (between your seed and her Seed; NKJV). This was not the common knowledge until a few centuries ago. It was widely believed that only the male possessed the "seed of life" and that the woman was nothing more than a "glorified incubator".


Other facts:


Only in recent years has science discovered that everything we see is composed of invisible atoms. In Hebrews 11:3, Scripture tells us that the "things which are seen were not made of things which do appear."
At a time when it was believed that the earth sat on a large animal or a giant (1500 B.C.), the Bible spoke of the earth's free float in space: "He...hangs the earth upon nothing" (Job 26:7).
The prophet Isaiah also tells us that the earth is round: "It is he that sits upon the circle of the earth" (Isa. 40:22). This is not a reference to a flat disk, as some skeptics maintain, but to a sphere. Secular man discovered this 2,400 years later. At a time when science believed the earth was flat, it was the Scriptures that inspired Christopher Columbus to sail around the world.
God told Job in 1500 BC: "Can you send lightnings, that they may go, and say to you, Here we are?" (Job 38:35) The Bible here is making what appears to be a scientifically ludicrous statement--that light can be sent, and then manifest itself in speech. But, radio waves travel at the speed of light. This is why you can have instantaneous wireless communication with someone on the other side of the earth. Science didn't discover this until 1864 when "British scientist James Clerk Maxwell suggested that electricity and light waves were two forms of the same thing" (Modern Century Illustrated Encyclopedia)
Job 38:19 asks, "Where is the way where light dwells?" Modern man has only recently discovered that light (electromagnetic radiation) has a "way", traveling at 186,000 miles per second.
Science has discovered that stars emit radio waves, which are received on earth as a high pitch. God mentioned this in Job 38:7 "When the morning stars sang together..."
Solomon described a "cycle" of air currents two thousand years before scientists "discovered" them. "The wind goes toward the south, and turns about unto the north; it whirls about continually, and the wind returns again according to his circuits" (Ecc. 1:6)
Science expresses the universe in five terms, time, space, matter, power, and motion. Genesis 1:1,2 revealed such truths to the Hebrews in 1450 BC: "In the beginning [time] God created [power] the heaven [space] and the earth [matter]...And the Spirit of God moved [motion] upon the face of the waters." The first thing God tells man is that He controls all aspects of the universe.
The great biological truth concerning the importance of blood in our body's mechanism has been fully comprehended only in recent years. Up until 120 years ago, sick people were "bled", and many died because of the practice. If you lose your blood, you lose your life. Yet Leviticus 17:11, written 3,000 years ago, declared that blood is the source of life: "For the life of the flesh is in the blood."
All things were made by Him (John 1:3), including dinosaurs. Why then did the dinosaur disappear? The answer may be in Job 40:15-24. In this passage, God speaks about a great creature called "behemoth". Some commentators think this was a hippopotamus. However, the hippo's tail isn't like a large tree, but a small twig. Following are characteristics of this large animal: It was the largest of all creatures God made; was plant-eating; had it's strength in it's hips and a tail like a large tree. It had very strong bones, lived among the trees, drank massive amounts of water, and was not disturbed by a raging river. He appears impervious to attack because his nose could pierce through snares, but Scripture says, "He that made him can make His sword to approach unto him". In other words, God caused this, the largest of all the creatures He had made, to become extinct.
Encyclopedia Britannica documents that in 1845, a young doctor in Vienna named Dr. Ignaz Semmelweis was horrified at the terrible death rate of women who gave birth in hospitals. As many as 30 percent died after giving birth. Semmelweis noted that doctors would examine the bodies of patients who died, then, without washing their hands, go straight to the next ward and examine expectant mothers. This was their normal practice, because the presence of microscopic diseases was unknown. Semmelweis insisted that doctors wash their hands before examinations, and the death rate immediately dropped to 2 percent.

Look at the specific instructions God gave His people for when they encounter disease: "And when he that has an issue is cleansed of his issue; then he shall number to himself seven days for his cleansing, and wash his clothes, and bathe his flesh in running water, and shall be clean" (Lev. 15:13). Until recent years, doctors washed their hands in a bowl of water, leaving invisible germs on their hands. However, the Bible says specifically to wash hands under "running water".


And on, and on...

I agree... the Bible is not a science book. It's the original science book. These quotes are taken from The Evidence Bible.

middletree
07-08-2008, 05:58 AM
Man discovered the existence of ocean currents in the 1850s
Say what? Ocean currents were known long before then. The slave trade existed because currents made it prudent for ships to take slaves from Africa to the New World, then to take tobacco from the New World to Europe. The ships then followed currents down to Africa. All three sides of this triangle were based on known ocean currents.

http://tommcmahon.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2007/06/03/triangular.gif

Greyshades
07-08-2008, 06:20 AM
Yeah, but what you're referring to is knowledge passed on from captain to captain through simple log books. What I'm referring to is the broader accepted scientific work. It's also important to note that the map you have there, is not based primarily on currents, but on prevailing winds. Also, that many of the ships involved in the slave trade did not complete the triangle by returning to Europe, but recrossed the Atlantic by backtracking the second leg. The same applies for ships carrying goods to Europe, they would use the northern track, back and forth.



Matthew Fontaine Maury and Prince Albert of Monaco
Mapping Current Patterns in the Oceans

In the mid- to late-1800s, Matthew Fontaine Maury became head of the US Navy’s Department of Charts and Instruments -- only to discover that the Navy had very few charts of the oceans! But it did have a big storeroom of dusty logbooks from Navy ships. In these logbooks, sea captains traveling the North Atlantic had recorded their daily locations, as well the speeds and directions of winds and currents.

Maury realized the books contained a gold mine of information. By compiling records from many ships, he saw patterns. He made charts of ocean currents and winds that helped captains plot the best sea lanes for their voyages. He added more details to these charts by asking merchant captains to make more observations and send them to him. He also asked sailors to put messages in bottles. The message noted the ship’s location when the bottle was thrown overboard. When the bottles washed ashore, the finders were asked to send Maury a note telling him where they found the bottle. In this way, Maury could figure out more detailed ocean current patterns and add them to his charts.
In the late 1800s and early 1900s, Prince Albert of Monaco used a similar method to figure out what happened to the Gulf Stream as it approached Europe. By compiling the notes he received from people who found washed ashore bottles, he determined that the Gulf Stream splits in the northeastern Atlantic. One branch heads toward Ireland and Great Britain, while another part of the Gulf Stream heads south past Spain and Africa, and then back west.

Prince Albert’s knowledge of currents proved valuable during World War I. He was able to tell military officials how explosive mines would drift in the ocean and where they would land. Authorities found mines just where Prince Albert had predicted and disarmed them before they exploded.

~~~~~

Maury's research is where we get the "message in a bottle" stuff with castaways.

~~~~~

Charts developed by early seafarers were jealously guarded and were destroyed before ships could be captured. Seafaring nations like Spain kept all their maps locked in the royal vaults, copies were distributed only to the most trustworthy captains. Often fake maps were made and allowed to fall into the hands of enemies, so that they would die of thirst and hunger in the middle of trackless oceans. Such secrecy caused many ancient maps to be lost making the job of the historian even more difficult.

~~~~~

The first maps to show compass variation were produced in the first half of the 17th century, and the first charts to show ocean currents were made about 1665. ~Encarta


~~~~~

And, they're still today learning about currents:

Scientists Reveal Presence Of Ocean Current 'Stripes'

ScienceDaily (Apr. 26, 2008) — More than 20 years of continuous measurements and a dose of "belief" yield discovery of subtle ocean currents that could dramatically improve forecasts of climate, ecosystem changes. An international collaborative of scientists led by Peter Niiler, a physical oceanographer at Scripps Institution of Oceanography, UC San Diego, and Nikolai Maximenko, a researcher at the International Pacific Research Center, University of Hawaii, has detected the presence of crisscrossing patterns of currents running throughout the world's oceans. The new data could help scientists significantly improve high-resolution models that help them understand trends in climate and marine ecosystems.

~~~~~

That's all good and well. Charts were being made in the late 1600s, and accepted scientific research followed two centuries later, to which science is still adding. The point is, God said it thousands of years prior. And no matter how many charts were made in the 1600s, I guarantee that none of them knew anything about the complexity of warm and cold water currents, surface and deep water flows.

middletree
07-08-2008, 06:29 AM
That's a far cry from the way it was worded in the first post.

middletree
07-08-2008, 06:34 AM
I guess my point, Sean, is that I agree that the bible is to be our final authority on all knowledge, but I have witnessed many Christians making up facts over the years to say things the bible doesn't say, and they think they are defending the bible in the process.

One example is the idea that the dinosaurs were destroyed in the Flood. The bible says just the opposite (Noah took some of all, not most, land animals onto the Ark with him).

Another is one crazy idiotic email that used to get circulated around that said that NASA scientists discovered a missing day in the calendar which could only be explained by an event mentioned in Scripture.

There are more, but you get the idea. God's word is enough. Christians do not need to make stuff up. Sticking to the truth is all that's needed, because God is truth.

Greyshades
07-08-2008, 07:10 AM
Indeed.

And, yes, that is a far cry. I was quoting, and had I though about it a second, I might have added to it myself to explain what we've just explained.

That would've been a lengthy post. ;)

God's word is enough. Christians do not need to make stuff up. Sticking to the truth is all that's needed, because God is truth.

Amen.

(I think you know why I put this up.) Thanks for jumping on the boat.



Sorry... horrible pun...:rolleyes:

middletree
07-08-2008, 07:13 AM
I wasn't saying you shouldn't make this thread, Sean. I was just urging caution. A lot of people here tend to choose one side, then defend that side in ridiculous ways, suspending anything resembling common sense and common courtesy.

Greyshades
07-08-2008, 07:22 AM
I wasn't saying you shouldn't make this thread

I know you weren't. :)

A lot of people here tend to choose one side, then defend that side in ridiculous ways, suspending anything resembling common sense and common courtesy.

:D

I know. Poor dogs.

Just tossing some spice into the stew, is all. I've got backups, but I don't intend to thoroughly debate the thread topic.

Andi
07-08-2008, 12:20 PM
Very interesting stuff Sean.

I have to say though, that the circumcision thing is off....at least here in Georgia. My son was circumcised when he was about 28 hours old. ;)

middletree
07-08-2008, 01:48 PM
Very interesting stuff Sean.

I have to say though, that the circumcision thing is off....at least here in Georgia. My son was circumcised when he was about 28 hours old. ;)

That's because they inject the kid with a clotting agent now. If they didn't, 8 days would be optimal.

Andi
07-08-2008, 01:53 PM
That's because they inject the kid with a clotting agent now. If they didn't, 8 days would be optimal.

ugh - really? did not know that.

middletree
07-08-2008, 04:39 PM
ugh - really? did not know that.

Actually, if I recall correctly, the clotting agent is Vitamin K. I could be wrong, though. At any rate, the natural clotting agent that God provides through nature is something that peaks at 8 days old, so Sean's point is a valid one.

Greyshades
07-08-2008, 04:49 PM
Yes, it's vitamin K. K works to help produce prothrombin, which is the secondary clotting agent. "K" comes from the German word "koagulation". K starts the chain reaction that produces the active "thrombin" from prothrombin. So, when they give a baby a vitamin K shot, they increase the levels similarly to what the body would naturally do itself on the eighth day.

Evanescence
07-08-2008, 07:58 PM
Good stuff Grey.....but it only goes so far....History and Science are not the strong points of the Bible....healthy, Godly living is..and salvation.

Aussie3rddayfan
07-08-2008, 08:15 PM
Good stuff Grey.....but it only goes so far....History and Science are not the strong points of the Bible....healthy, Godly living is..and salvation.

Actaully, I think you will find alot of historical and archaeological evidence has been found to back up the Bible.

Greyshades
07-08-2008, 08:19 PM
I politely disagree on the first two there E.

It's obvious that history is an essential part of the Bible. Genesis is an account of history prior to man's recording of it. It was crucial to the Hebrews to track their history, especially for genealogical purposes (to be traced back to Abraham). You have two books called "Chronicles" which are by definition accounts of historical events.

The book of Acts is another "chronicle" of the spread of the early Church.

I think I've put up enough about the science stuff already.


The point I'm stressing is that if Scripture is "God-breathed", then we can be certain that everything we need to know, in all realms of knowledge, is within those pages. And, since "science" has come up here as a "hot topic" lately, I thought this was the best place for this.

healthy, Godly living is..and salvation.

You're preaching to the choir bro.

I think you will find alot of historical and archaeological evidence has been found to back up the Bible.

Yep. What I've put up is just the tip of the iceberg. And for everything that's been discovered by "accident", there's just as much that was found by searching the Bible first.

middletree
07-09-2008, 02:59 AM
Our esteem for facts has not neutralized in us all religiousness. It is itself almost religious. Our scientific temper is devout.

--William James

kiwisongbird
07-10-2008, 01:45 AM
Very interesting stuff Sean.

I have to say though, that the circumcision thing is off....at least here in Georgia. My son was circumcised when he was about 28 hours old. ;)

Um, why is it that people still get their boys circumcised? Oops, sorry that's a major highjack isn't it... and now to my boys' horror you all know that they're not! :) :) :eek:

middletree
07-10-2008, 02:21 AM
Um, why is it that people still get their boys circumcised? Oops, sorry that's a major highjack isn't it... and now to my boys' horror you all know that they're not! :) :) :eek:

It's an issue that has strong adherents to both sides. We decided to do it because, even though we're not under the Law of Moses, it's indisputable that many of the guidelines in there were for the benefit of the Israelites, put there by a God who knows how He designed us. There are good health benefits from not touching a dead, decaying body. There are good healthy reasons why a husband shouldn't have sex with his wife during her period. There are good benefits that come with circumcision.

Evanescence
07-10-2008, 04:21 AM
Hockey superstitions....a child should have a say whether or not they're cut or not...and they don't. So, it should be THEIR choice when their older....not as a child...

How about the botched jobs you never hear of? Why not circumsize women too? We can make up something like they do in Africa.

middletree
07-10-2008, 04:48 AM
Hockey superstitions....a child should have a say whether or not they're cut or not.

I disagree. When he's very young, I make the decisions for him. No different than deciding what TV shows he can watch.

How about the botched jobs you never hear of?
In the first place, you do hear of them. Secondly, is the fact that sometimes things go wrong a reason to not do that thing? In that case, you shouldn't drive a car, because some people die in accidents.

Why not circumsize women too? We can make up something like they do in Africa.
Straw man. What they do in Africa is abhorrent, but nobody here says they should do that. The bible which said that boys should be circumsized never said that girls should be. Even bringing it up is silly (I had another word than silly, but realized that someone called you a name once and got banned.)

Greyshades
07-10-2008, 05:25 AM
This ain't about circumcision.

Hello?

phil_ur_friend
07-10-2008, 09:45 AM
Let's set this record straight. The Scriptures speak for themselves.

It's the original science book. These quotes are taken from The Evidence Bible.

They do speak for themselves,
people have a way of always wanting to overcomplicate things.
It's all there, waiting to be read.

Phil, your friend:)

middletree
07-10-2008, 09:53 AM
They do speak for themselves,
people have a way of always wanting to overcomplicate things.
It's all there, waiting to be read.

Phil, your friend:)

Creationists can be just as guilty of this as evolutionists.

phil_ur_friend
07-13-2008, 10:02 PM
Creationists can be just as guilty of this as evolutionists.

Hi Middletree.

phil_ur_friend
07-13-2008, 10:10 PM
Creationists can be just as guilty of this as evolutionists.

You are correct (in that) most people will overcomplicate something in their lifetime.

Better to do it with the Truth-
Than with a blatantly psychotic idea like the big bang theory, I always say.


Here's to simplicity.
Phil, your friend

Evanescence
07-14-2008, 04:16 AM
anyone with an ax to grind or agenda can and will have some kind of slant or bias....

middletree
07-14-2008, 04:26 AM
Better to do it with the Truth-
Than with a blatantly psychotic idea like the big bang theory, I always say.


What is Scripture conflicts with the idea of God creating the universe with methods described in the Big Bang Theory?

phil_ur_friend
07-14-2008, 07:20 AM
What is Scripture conflicts with the idea of God creating the universe with methods described in the Big Bang Theory?

What is Scripture,
conflicts with the idea of God creating the universe with methods described in the Big Bang Theory!

I agree.

Phil, your friend

middletree
07-14-2008, 08:38 AM
I meant what in scripture conflicts with the Big Bang. You haven't answered it.

For the record, I believe the bible is 100% inerrant. You can search and find some debates I am having on this very topic. But I have not seen anything in God's word which says He couldn't have create the universe in a way similar to that described by scientists.