Rumsfeld - USA needs a new 911 for Iran...

[Evanescence]

A recently declassified Doc shows that Rumsfeld had a conversation with military analysts about Iran and a new 911.

The tapes were released as part of the investigation into the Pentagon's "message force multipliers" program in which top military analysts were hired to propagandize for the Iraq war in the corporate media.


In attendance at the valedictory luncheon Rumsfeld hosted on December 12, 2006 were David L. Grange, Donald W. Sheppard, James Marks, Rick Francona, Wayne Downing, and Robert H. Scales, Jr. among others.

The most extraordinary exchange takes place when Lt. Gen. Michael DeLong bemoans shrinking political support for Neo-Con war plans on Capitol Hill and suggests that sympathy for the Bush administration's agenda will only be achieved after a new terror attack.

Rumsfeld agrees that the psychological impact of 9/11 is wearing off and the "behavior pattern" of citizens in both the U.S. and Europe suggests that they are unconcerned about the threat of terror.


DELONG: Politically, what are the challenges because you're not going to have a lot of sympathetic ears up there until it [a terror attack] happens.


RUMSFELD: That's what I was just going to say. This President's pretty much a victim of success. We haven't had an attack in five years. The perception of the threat is so low in this society that it's not surprising that the behavior pattern reflects a low threat assessment. The same thing's in Europe, there's a low threat perception.

The correction for that, I suppose, is an attack. And when that happens, then everyone gets energized for another [inaudible] and it's a shame we don't have the maturity to recognize the seriousness of the threats...the lethality, the carnage, that can be imposed on our society is so real and so present and so serious that you'd think we'd be able to understand it, but as a society, the longer you get away from 9/11, the less....

Audio clip availbale thru Prison planet dot com

In another exchange, after assuring that comments are "off the record," Rumsfeld and one of the military analysts agree that Iraq could use a "Syngman Rhee" to take control of Iraq. Syngman Rhee was the ruthless authoritarian dictator of South Korea from after World War II through the Korean War to 1960. If the invasion of Iraq was about liberating the Iraqis from a tyrant in the form of Saddam Hussein why is Rumsfeld talking about installing an even more brutal dictator?

--------------------------
So, does the US Govt and/or White House want a new attack to use as political leverage? Would they be so bold as to talk about it openly? Would they even go so far as to talk about FALSE FLAG OPS in public?

Lets see....

Lt.-Col. Doug Delaney, chair of the war studies program at the Royal Military College in Kingston, Ontario, told the Toronto Star last July that "The key to bolstering Western resolve is another terrorist attack like 9/11 or the London transit bombings of two years ago."
The same sentiment was also explicitly expressed in a 2005 GOP memo, which yearned for new attacks that would "validate" the President's war on terror and "restore his image as a leader of the American people."


Also in July 2007, former Republican Senator Rick Santorum suggested that a series of "unfortunate events," namely terrorist attacks, will occur within the next year and change American citizen's perception of the war.
And the month before that, the new chairman of the Arkansas Republican Party Dennis Milligan said that there needed to be more attacks on American soil for President Bush to regain popular approval.


Rumsfeld: Why not another 9/11?

Larry Chin Online Journal
Thursday, May 16, 2008

In a newly-released tape of a 2006 neocon luncheon meeting featuring former War Secretary Donald Rumsfeld, attended by ex-military "message force multiplier" propaganda shills Lt. General Michael DeLong, David L. Grange, Donald W. Sheppard, James Marks, Rick Francona, Wayne Downing, Robert H. Scales and others, Rumsfeld declared that the American people lack "the maturity to recognize the seriousness of the ‘threats’" -- and need another 9/11.

When DeLong complained about a "lack of sympathetic ears" in Congress, and a lack of interest among the general American public, Rumsfeld responded, "What's to be done? The correction for that, I suppose, is another attack."

This videotape clip is part of a one-hour tape declassified by the Department of Defense in response to a Freedom of Information Act request. The entire clip, and analysis of this damning new revelation, can be found here: "The Correction for that . . . is another attack"
In the seven years since the day, exhaustive and still growing evidence proves beyond any reasonable doubt that the US government, spearheaded by the Bush administration, planned, orchestrated and executed the 9/11 false flag operation.

As openly advocated by wide swaths of elites, from the People for the New American Century (PNAC), of which Rumsfeld has been a member, to the likes of Zbigniew Brzezinski (in his The Grand Chessboard), only an attack “on the order of Pearl Harbor” would, in Brzezinski’s words, cause the American people to support an “imperial mobilization,” and a world war.

Sept. 11, and its resulting “war on terrorism” (in Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran, Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, etc.), remains the Bush administration’s endless gift from hell, in large part courtesy of Rumsfeld.

Placing the new evidence against previously revealed 9/11-related acts on the part of Rumsfeld, his guilt is overt and obvious. Recall that it was Rumsfeld who enthusiastically penned the "Go Massive" memo, gleefully declaring the Bush administration finally had the green light to kill: “Not only UBL (Usama bin Laden). Go massive. Sweep it all up. Things related and not.”

As the Bush administration’s war ensued in earnest, Rumsfeld gloated to the New York Times that 9/11 provided “the kind of opportunities that World War II offered, to refashion the world.”

It is not for nothing that Donald Rumsfeld was described by legendary war criminal Henry Kissinger as “the most ruthless man I’ve ever known.”


1. A false flag operation intended to start a war, like Operation Cyanide

A false flag operation means that you execute a strike against your own people and then assign blame to the enemy. The result is that you appear to be highly justified when you in turn attack your enemy.

An example of this is Operation Cyanide, an operation that was devised because of the U.S. desire to become involved in Israel's battle against Egypt in 1967. The U.S. sacrificed a Navy vessel that ostensibly was attacked by Egypt.

In reality the ship was deliberately attacked by unmarked Israeli fighters, torpedoed by Israeli ships and shelled with napalm. Contrary to all expectations, a portion of the crew survived the attack, and the American airplane that was already on its way to Egypt to avenge the attack with a nuclear bomb was called back.

Given the many common interests of the U.S. and Israel it is not unlikely that the blueprint for this operation will be pulled off the shelf to organize a warwith Iran.

2. A false flag operation wrapped in a war game, like 9/11 and 7/7

Author Webster Tarpley feels that the false flag operation that will precede an attack on Iran will probably be a consequence of a war game or an anti-terrorism exercise.

It starts with a war game/exercise - complete with the deployment of personnel and equipment (thus not a virtual exercise) - which resembles the eventual attack. Thus it is a war game that during the game suddenly and without notice becomes reality and goes 'live'.

The most famous examples of this kind of exercise that goes live all at once are the war games held on September 11th, 2001 and the exercises held in London on 7/7.

The rationale behind making a war game the occasion for a false flag operation is that it can be organized out in the open within the confines of a secret operation (after all, it is only an exercise that is being planned), and at the moment that the exercise goes live, all defenses are down.

Vice-President Cheney has already directed the division of the military that plans wars to develop a plan for a large-scale air attack in which nuclear weapons are deployed against Iran as retribution for a second September 11th.

AND.................

Newt Gingrich recently said:

"the better they've done at making sure there isn't an attack, the easier it is to say, 'Well, there never was going to be an attack anyway.' And it's almost like they should every once in a while have allowed an attack to get through just to remind us."

The head of the Arkansas Republican party said:

"At the end of the day, I believe fully the president is doing the right thing, and I think all we need is some attacks on American soil like we had on [Sept. 11, 2001]" so people appreciate Bush.
Philadelphia Daily News columnist Stu Bykofsky openly called for "another 9/11" that "would help America" restore a "community of outrage and national resolve".

Current U.S. Congressman Ron Paul stated, the government "is determined to have martial law", and that the government is hoping to get the people "fearful enough that they will accept the man on the white horse"

Daniel Ellsberg, the famous Pentagon Papers whistleblower, said "if there is another terror attack, "I believe the president will get what he wants", which will include a dictatorship.

A retired 27-year CIA analyst who prepared and presented Presidential Daily Briefs and served as a high-level analyst for several presidents, stated that if there was another major attack in the U.S., it would lead to martial law. He went on to say:

"We have to be careful, if somebody does this kind of provocation, big violent explosions of some kind, we have to not take the word of the masters there in Washington that this was some terrorist event because it could well be a provocation allowing them, or seemingly to allow them to get what they want."
The former CIA analyst would not put it past the government to "play fast and loose" with terror alerts and warnings and even events themselves in order to rally people behind the flag

The former assistant secretary of treasury in the Reagan administration, called the "Father of Reaganomics", who is a former editor and columnist for the Wall Street Journal, Business Week, and Scripps Howard News Service, and, said:



"Ask yourself: Would a government that has lied us into two wars and is working to lie us into an attack on Iran shrink from staging "terrorist" attacks in order to remove opposition to its agenda?"
He goes on to say:

If the Bush administration wants to continue its wars in the Middle East and to entrench the "unitary executive" at home, it will have to conduct some false flag operations that will both frighten and anger the American people and make them accept Bush's declaration of "national emergency" and the return of the draft. Alternatively, the administration could simply allow any real terrorist plot to proceed without hindrance.

A series of staged or permitted attacks would be spun by the captive media as a vindication of the neoconsevatives' Islamophobic policy, the intention of which is to destroy all Middle Eastern governments that are not American puppet states. Success would give the US control over oil, but the main purpose is to eliminate any resistance to Israel's complete absorption of Palestine into Greater Israel.

Think about it. If another 9/11-type "security failure" were not in the works, why would Homeland Security czar Chertoff go to the trouble of convincing the Chicago Tribune that Americans have become complacent about terrorist threats and that he has "a gut feeling" that America will soon be hit hard?

A member of the British Parliament stated that "there is a very real danger" that the American government will stage a false flag terror attack in order to justify war against Iran and to gain complete control domestically

And the former UN Weapons Inspector, an American, who stated before the Iraq war started that there were no weapons of mass destruction is now saying that he would not rule out staged government terror by the U.S. government.

[Evanescence]

ALSO.......

Former Senator Gary Hart admits and warns that Iran might fall victim to a FALSE-FLAG attack which would lead to them being bombed...He references the Gulf of Tonkin Incident AND The Maine ...both confirmed false-flag ops by the US Govt to provoke war...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RQeNCireJPo&feature=related

He also speaks about his admission that Bush could use 911 to fulfill his fathers ideas of a New World Order. His false flag comments are at 7:15 on the Vid....

http://youtube.com/watch?v=X8aXnPy_Zu8&feature=related

Sen Gary Hart on the NWO....ironically speaking tot he Globalist CFR...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RPu5P138xtI

President Jimmy Carter asked if he feels Iran may fall victim to a false-flag attack like the operation Lowsbeck or Operation Cyanide in the 60s...

He openly admits this possibility !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

AND.......

http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/testimony/2007/BrzezinskiTestimony070201 .pdf

PDF of long time political advisor, Globalist and political lizard, Z. Brzezinski OPENLY admits that a false flagger could trigger the bombing of Iran. Its on the 2nd paragraph- 1st page. Right there in black and white.

We will need a good reason to bomb Iran...a false flag terror attck here at home would RE-instill fear into the American people....and give us that reason.

Just remember, you heard it hear first...and we've done it before. That's easily proven...

[Les_Is_More]

I'm just curious where you got the first article? Is there a link?

[in hiding]

I'm just curious where you got the first article? Is there a link?

it looks like it's from prison planet (at least there's a ref to the audio files being there)

[danbos]

I don't have time right now to read all of that...but could it be possible that(if he did actually make the comments) he was simply not really thinking about what he was saying, kind of like what Hillary did with her assassination comments? Not necessarily saying that they caused 911 but rather that it would help with their efforts against Iran if something did happen again...

[Evanescence]

I think the first article is from Prison Planet...but they are pretty good about sound and accuarate sources. I heard the tape myself but I can't link it here...it wasn't bunk. Someone used the Freedom of Info act to get ahold of it....

There's 4 politicians openly admitting false-flag ops are/were used....and may be used for IRAN.

This is what your country does to provoke war....easily proven...

[Debbie]

This is what your country does to provoke war....easily proven...

It's your country to E.

[WeaselInYerFoot]

I'm pretty sure we'll go to war with Iran. I really wish we wouldn't and I hope I'm wrong, but once the administration finds some reason to attack (something they've been trying to do for over a year), then a preemptive strike is in order.

[Evanescence]

This just in....

http://news.aol.com/story/_a/us-steps-up-spying-on-iran-report-says/20080630090309990002#addN ewCmmnt

The White house has spent 400 million on a secret spy op deep within Iran to disrupt and spy on their nuke test program.

400 million....

You watch, he's gonna do it. They'll be some bogus reason...like an attack or some BS they cooked up. And the starry eyed sheeple will give him the permission to go in there....

Its MY country too.....but some of YOU people live in a fantasy world that false-flag ops and deceptive tactics for war don't exist. Its part of ur past...and easily proven.

We're liable to see a new example very soon....

[Jesuslove]

When I saw this story on the news last evening, I got sick to my stomach. As if we don't have enough troubles on the homefront, the LAST thing we need to do is provoke a war with Iran. Is our government crazy? If we think fuel prices are bad now, just wait until the Iranians block off the Strait of Hormuz. GWB and his cronies seem hellbent on destroying America. Sad. What a disservice GWB has done to the conservative Christians who fought so hard to elect him, not once, but twice. Just sad!

[Evanescence]

When I saw this story on the news last evening, I got sick to my stomach. As if we don't have enough troubles on the homefront, the LAST thing we need to do is provoke a war with Iran. Is our government crazy? If we think fuel prices are bad now, just wait until the Iranians block off the Strait of Hormuz. GWB and his cronies seem hellbent on destroying America. Sad. What a disservice GWB has done to the conservative Christians who fought so hard to elect him, not once, but twice. Just sad!

Yep...we may be seeing the beginning stages of WWIII unfolding and it will be OUR fault....

Its also begging to look like we have an unholy alliance with Israel. Not the true Israel but the radical zionists within and worldwide.

More to come on that soon...

[Howlin' Wolf]

we are Israel's lap dog and will fight whomever she wants us to.

dont believe me? North Korea actually has nukes.

[DareDevil]

There is just one thing that I fail to understand and that is Iran's position! Are they so full of themselves that they can't see the danger they are in or are they planning something or what??? Iran is provoking Israel, Iran is provoking the USA and most likely LOADS of other countries too ... Do the Mullahs there really think that they can get away with this time and time again??? I mean, you don't go and poke a lion with a stick and expect to remain unharmed, right???

:confused: :confused: :confused:

[Howlin' Wolf]

There is just one thing that I fail to understand and that is Iran's position! Are they so full of themselves that they can't see the danger they are in or are they planning something or what??? Iran is provoking Israel, Iran is provoking the USA and most likely LOADS of other countries too ... Do the Mullahs there really think that they can get away with this time and time again??? I mean, you don't go and poke a lion with a stick and expect to remain unharmed, right???

:confused: :confused: :confused:

China and Russia would probably side with them. in addition, I wouldnt say that we are winning anything in Iraq or Afghanistan and seeing that fact and our troops being forced to fight on 3 different fronts, I would say that Iran should be confident. Also, if Israel were to go to war with Iran, then every muslim nation in the world would unite and side with Iran.

[Valpo]

Ooh yeah, the Nazi Regime that is the American Government is now declassifying documents that shows they caused 9/11

[Howlin' Wolf]

Ooh yeah, the Nazi Regime that is the American Government is now declassifying documents that shows they caused 9/11

evidence that demands a verdict.

[Valpo]

evidence that demands a verdict.

No nazi regime govt would allow documents to become declassified that admitted to 9/11 being the American govt/CIA/the Jews/etc. What Rumsfeld was saying was that because of how things have unfolded, the only way the USA could go militarily after Iran is if another 9/11 type attack happened. It is irresponsible eisegesis to read into it any further and interpret ones own account of what Mr. Rumsfeld "was actually saying."

[Evanescence]

Perhaps Valpo....but given the PROVEN LIES of this Admin...would we put anything past them?

Given the PROVEN anomolies and conflicts of interests....would we put anything past them?

Let's not forget what the other 4 Govt goons said...OPENLY admitting false-flag ops happen and COULD happen....

In fact...because I know the scoffers and govt sympathizers refuse to open the PROOF I provided, lets have a look see...

Taken from: http://www.senate.gov/~foreign/testimony/2007/BrzezinskiTestimony070201 .pdf

Zbigniew Brzenzski – Long time politician and ambassador

SFRC Testimony – Feb 1, 2007

3rd paragraph:

If the US continues to bogged down in a protracted, bloody involvement in Iraq, the result may be a head on showdown with Iran and the world of Islam, at large. A plausible scenario with Iran for military collision with Iran could come from: Iraqi failures to meet benchmarks, followed by accusations of Iranian responsibility in the failures; Then by some provocation in Iraq or terrorist act in the USA, BLAMED on Iran; culminating in a “defensive” military action against Iran that plunges the entire area into war.

-------------------------

Sorry, no 911 teenage blogger here...no made up stories to project paranoia and propaganda aganist Bush. This is RIGHT FROM a senate hearing in which a TOP Washington analyst and politician Z. Brezenski ADMITS a false-flag terror plot more than likley KILLING Americans could be used to provoke war with Iran.

Folks, this is the oldest trick in the book... FALSE FLAG TERRORISM... and very common in war....our history is riddled with it. And it may happen again....

[Jesuslove]

-------------------------

Sorry, no 911 teenage blogger here...no made up stories to project paranoia and propaganda aganist Bush. This is RIGHT FROM a senate hearing in which a TOP Washington analyst and politician Z. Brezenski ADMITS a false-flag terror plot more than likley KILLING Americans could be used to provoke war with Iran.

Folks, this is the oldest trick in the book... FALSE FLAG TERRORISM... and very common in war....our history is riddled with it. And it may happen again....

Ev,
Why do so many Americans want to idly sit by and allow this administration to carry on without accountability. Why do so many Americans think it's ok to have the wool pulled over their eyes. This administration has tarnished the reputation of Christian America, yet so many follow GWB like he's the Pied Piper. It is scary.

[Howlin' Wolf]

No nazi regime govt would allow documents to become declassified that admitted to 9/11 being the American govt/CIA/the Jews/etc. What Rumsfeld was saying was that because of how things have unfolded, the only way the USA could go militarily after Iran is if another 9/11 type attack happened. It is irresponsible eisegesis to read into it any further and interpret ones own account of what Mr. Rumsfeld "was actually saying."

In light of the mounds of evidence, it is irresponsible eisegesis to dismiss false flag operations.

[Valpo]

In light of the mounds of evidence, it is irresponsible eisegesis to dismiss false flag operations.

these so called mounds of evidence are fudged. Completely ignored are the multitude of eye witnesses who say they saw an airplane hit the pentegon and the phone calls made from the plane. For the sake of dancing on Americas grave, people have searched for and "found" a conspiracy theory.


JL, get off your high horse and come back down to earth. Nowhere in my posts did I imply the administration can go unchecked. All I am saying is this in no way, shape, or form by itself, without fudged theory behind it, does this document show the USA was behind the 9/11 attacks. Enough already

[Evanescence]

In light of the mounds of evidence, it is irresponsible eisegesis to dismiss false flag operations.

Amen Tulip...I mean, there's no sense in pointing fingers but don't be so blind and dishonest as to not admit its possible. Crap, its common knowledge and part of our history...PROVEN.

It may happen again with Iran...you watch and see. I predicted this on several posts over the past few years here..and am saying it again.

Jesuslove, people are blinded by politics and religion....they go hand in hand. They think just because their pastor tells them Bushy is a good Christian...that he really is. He can do no wrong.

Not to worry though....Dems do the same thing, look how they loved that crook Clinton.

People need to start paying attention and stop fighting about Lefts and Rights...their priorities should be with the American people and the Republic...not arguing over political parties and the crooks in Washington.

[Evanescence]

these so called mounds of evidence are fudged. Completely ignored are the multitude of eye witnesses who say they saw an airplane hit the pentegon and the phone calls made from the plane. For the sake of dancing on Americas grave, people have searched for and "found" a conspiracy theory.


JL, get off your high horse and come back down to earth. Nowhere in my posts did I imply the administration can go unchecked. All I am saying is this in no way, shape, or form by itself, without fudged theory behind it, does this document show the USA was behind the 9/11 attacks. Enough already

No one said this about 911....I never even hitned at it. YOU said that...not me...or JL....

Maybe you are a closet Truther Valpo....wanting desperately to come out...but afraid....

Come over to my side old friend...I won't let you down...the truth will set you free.... :cool:

[Howlin' Wolf]

these so called mounds of evidence are fudged. Completely ignored are the multitude of eye witnesses who say they saw an airplane hit the pentegon and the phone calls made from the plane. For the sake of dancing on Americas grave, people have searched for and "found" a conspiracy theory.


JL, get off your high horse and come back down to earth. Nowhere in my posts did I imply the administration can go unchecked. All I am saying is this in no way, shape, or form by itself, without fudged theory behind it, does this document show the USA was behind the 9/11 attacks. Enough already

building 7.

if you honestly expect me to believe that fire and debris caused a building to implode on itself, then you really need to re-evaluate your gullability.

valpo, you know me. you know i dont come at issue unless sold evidence has convinced me. and you alos know that i dont look for rabbit holes to jump down for the sake of having a controversial argument.

[Jesuslove]

JL, get off your high horse and come back down to earth. Nowhere in my posts did I imply the administration can go unchecked. All I am saying is this in no way, shape, or form by itself, without fudged theory behind it, does this document show the USA was behind the 9/11 attacks. Enough already

Val,
I have no idea what you are talking about. No high horse here.... just honest reflection. And what does what I posted have to do with 9/11? I'm confused.

[Evanescence]

these so called mounds of evidence are fudged. Completely ignored are the multitude of eye witnesses who say they saw an airplane hit the pentegon and the phone calls made from the plane. For the sake of dancing on Americas grave, people have searched for and "found" a conspiracy theory.




Valpo, we've been down this raod before. I won't try to convince you of anything BUT....

People are asking tough questions and more and more is coming out everyday. I AM very active in the 911 Truth movement in following the REAL investigation and sifting through the BS and facts.

Recent polls confirm over 30% of Americans think 911 was allowed to happen or was an inside job. 55% of Americans DO NOT trust the 911 Comm report...felt it failed.

The facts are not fudged....they do not prove anything...anyone who says they do is lying. I have never said WHO did anything in regards to 911. I do not finger point. I HAVE presented facts that point to people....but thats it. These facts are OVERWHELMING...and are not fudged. Yes, some are dumb coincidences or way off base....but most are not.

The main reason why we should question 911 is our past. It IS riddled with deceptive tactics for war AND false-flag operations. This is easily PROVEN and you know this. We as Americans have the right and should question the Got and this Admin...esp given the proven lies of Bush. Its morally wrong NOT TO question 911. Our future and childrens future hangs in the balance.

Come August, I would welcome a debate as I map out the top 25 reasons not to trust the official story. I will respect your opinions...as well as others at that time. For, now, we're talking about Rummy and the 4 other Washington lizards who spoke of false-flag ops openly. It should once again raise some concerns...

[danbos]

Ev,
Why do so many Americans want to idly sit by and allow this administration to carry on without accountability. Why do so many Americans think it's ok to have the wool pulled over their eyes. This administration has tarnished the reputation of Christian America, yet so many follow GWB like he's the Pied Piper. It is scary.

That was a very clever way to bash the people here while making it look like you're asking E a question.

[Evanescence]

That was a very clever way to bash the people here while making it look like you're asking E a question.

It was a jab..no question, but SOME of us are just not being honest about Bush. And they cling to their beliefs that he's some good, Christian man....which we can PROVE he is not. We can PROVE irrefutably that he lied to take us to war AND we're foundering....on the verge of collapse. People...all American's need to re-think their thinking and stop lying for these crooks and liars. For God sakes...our future hangs in the balance.

Why is it so hard to accept the man lied and we can PROVE it. Proven with non-biased, non-partisan sources...heck even the Reps are coming out against him because they KNOW....

I think some people's priorities are out of order....

[Valpo]

building 7.

if you honestly expect me to believe that fire and debris caused a building to implode on itself, then you really need to re-evaluate your gullability.

valpo, you know me. you know i dont come at issue unless sold evidence has convinced me. and you alos know that i dont look for rabbit holes to jump down for the sake of having a controversial argument.

I live with/talk to/see engineers who say due to distress it is entirely possible. And these fine people do not work for the white house. I understand you don't fall for theories easily. But just because your theology is solid, doesn't mean you have it right here.

[Evanescence]

I live with/talk to/see engineers who say due to distress it is entirely possible. And these fine people do not work for the white house. I understand you don't fall for theories easily. But just because your theology is solid, doesn't mean you have it right here.

Valpo, if you interested in some serious and professional opinions on the demise of all 3 WTC buildings...check out:

http://www.ae911truth.org/

Architects and Engineers question 911. It took them a while to get their act together but they have some serious scientific and proven info on these three collapses. These aren't some geek bloggers or teen wanna-bes, but the real thing. Hundreds of them that provide scientific evidence and ideas on these collapses...while not finger pointing or being biased.

The same with Patriots question 911. Over 1000 Govt, ex-military, media, first responders, fire and rescue and eyewitnesses who question 911 in a responsible manner. Disregard Rosie and Charlie Sheen.

www.patriotsquestion911.o rg

Also, pilots question 911. Hundreds of qualified pilots weigh in on the event and give their expert opinion on 911...and the hijackings.

www.pilotsquestion911.org

All three of these are VERY credible and reliable sources...that responsibly question the official story. Nothing more. The 911 Truth movement cannot prove 911 was an inside job or allowed to happen. And the White House cannot prove the official story either.

There's a conspiracy somehwere in there....so is the truth....

[Valpo]

at the same time E, so many people in the very same professions you just cited absolutely refute any 9/11 conspiracy

[Jesuslove]

JL, get off your high horse and come back down to earth. Nowhere in my posts did I imply the administration can go unchecked. All I am saying is this in no way, shape, or form by itself, without fudged theory behind it, does this document show the USA was behind the 9/11 attacks. Enough already

Val, where did you get this from? I will debate with you, as long as you quote me accurately.

[Evanescence]

at the same time E, so many people in the very same professions you just cited absolutely refute any 9/11 conspiracy


Correct...its a solid divided debate. I leaned toward the truthers based on our past and what we know about Bush and this Admin....and our unholy alliance with Israel and the Mossad.

Here's the thing in a nutshell. Bring us a TRUE and fair and truly independent investigation into 911...free from manipulation from the Admin and Bush, free from conflicts of interests....and non-partisan. Bring that to us and give us the official explanation.....then most of us will go away and believe it. Because it WILL be the truth.

We can PROVE the 911 Comm was flawed, manipulated by the Pres and the Admin AND filled with a gross conflict of interest. That's why most peoiple can't believe it....the rest is just extra credit.

[Jesuslove]

Correct...its a solid divided debate. I leaned toward the truthers based on our past and what we know about Bush and this Admin....and our unholy alliance with Israel and the Mossad.

Here's the thing in a nutshell. Bring us a TRUE and fair and truly independent investigation into 911...free from manipulation from the Admin and Bush, free from conflicts of interests....and non-partisan. Bring that to us and give us the official explanation.....then most of us will go away and believe it. Because it WILL be the truth.

We can PROVE the 911 Comm was flawed, manipulated by the Pres and the Admin AND filled with a gross conflict of interest. That's why most peoiple can't believe it....the rest is just extra credit.

I am on the fence about whether I believe 9/11 was a outright conspiracy, however, I think we owe it to the American people to get to the bottom of it and answer all questions in a very public forum.

Having said that, I do believe the US is in an unholy alliance with Israel.

[Evanescence]

I am on the fence about whether I believe 9/11 was a outright conspiracy, however, I think we owe it to the American people to get to the bottom of it and answer all questions in a very public forum.

Having said that, I do believe the US is in an unholy alliance with Israel.

There's been a HUGE missing link with the 911 Conspiracy Probablity issue. There's a HUGE hole in it...but after studying the history and ideas of radical Zionism WITH some of the facts involving Zionists and Israeli's...nd am leaning toward some kind of Mossad or Israeli involvement.

There were 2-3 incident with Israelis celebrating in NYC and NJ during 911....and their actions afterward are VERY suspiscious.

Fact is, Zionists are worldwide and have been for decades. They spread out around the world after WWII...and have been manipulating for years. They are indeed within our very Govt and country.....they run a LOT of things here.

I'm studying them....they're not Jews but some sort of distant tribe pissed off about something....and wanting war with Islam. They've taken over Israel and are within the US....

If they had they're hands in on it..or actually pulled it off, WE WOULD go along with it....and cover it up. We'd have to.

If they did...they got their wish. US involvment in the Middle East....

JL, you should really dig deep into this. Look at it with a clean and non-biased heart....and just read and think. it took me months of studying to come to my conclusions....but again, given our past and this Admin....all angles should be looked at. We at LEAST need to give the victims and victims families a true and fair investigation......they did not get one. I can prove that.

[Evanescence]

Just read up on our pals in PNAC - Project for a New American century...

Man, these slugs do get around....

1. Many of them have had ties to Govt for decades....all old farts with deep connections in Washington and worked for a lot of Admins...

2. Many of them took off during the Clinton yrs....worked for big compnaies and stayed away from politics. However, they were planning and plotting in PNAC in the last 90s....

3. Many of them are Jewish and have been open about defending Israel and/or standing behind them....radical views with Israel.

Kinda makes you wonder....

[Jesuslove]

JL, you should really dig deep into this. Look at it with a clean and non-biased heart....and just read and think. it took me months of studying to come to my conclusions....but again, given our past and this Admin....all angles should be looked at. We at LEAST need to give the victims and victims families a true and fair investigation......they did not get one. I can prove that.

I plan on doing some reading while on vacation this Summer in Europe. I want to know the thuth as America's future depends on it. I fear for America's future. I love America so much and I don't want the wrong leadership in office that could sell us out or lead us into a world war. We Americans should be thankful for all we have. Instead of meddling in the affairs of other nations, or trying to be the world's policeman, we should be worrying about our affairs at home. We have enough issues within America that need fixing.

[DareDevil]

China and Russia would probably side with them. in addition, I wouldnt say that we are winning anything in Iraq or Afghanistan and seeing that fact and our troops being forced to fight on 3 different fronts, I would say that Iran should be confident. Also, if Israel were to go to war with Iran, then every muslim nation in the world would unite and side with Iran.
Your country can mobilise a LOT of power, if it is only provoked enough. I'm from Germany and I should know. I mean, it is not as if I would wish you or anybody else such a confrontation, but I do think that your country is much more powerful than you seem to know.

[Debbie]

building 7.

if you honestly expect me to believe that fire and debris caused a building to implode on itself, then you really need to re-evaluate your gullability.

valpo, you know me. you know i dont come at issue unless sold evidence has convinced me. and you alos know that i dont look for rabbit holes to jump down for the sake of having a controversial argument.

Tulip...it makes perfect sense. I've never thought of it that way...I can see those buildings collaspe in my mind...did the collaspe begin at the top where the planes hit? No, don't think so. One behind the other.....hmmm...Could they have been that precise?

Is what I am thinking what you are saying.?...there were explosives or other bombs planted previous to ensure the job would be finished?

[Jesuslove]

Tulip...it makes perfect sense. I've never thought of it that way...I can see those buildings collaspe in my mind...did the collaspe begin at the top where the planes hit? No, don't think so. One behind the other.....hmmm...Could they have been that precise?

Is what I am thinking what you are saying.?...there were explosives or other bombs planted previous to ensure the job would be finished?

Here's what I recall from 9/11. I recall Building 7 being brought down around 5:00 pm because it was unsafe after the two trade centers collapsed. I never thought at the time, that there would be explosives in place to implode the building. I find that strange.

[WeaselInYerFoot]

I agree with Valpo on this one. There's no doubt that our country has used FFs before, but I don't believe this is one of them. I won't deny the fact that there are some questions that need to be answered. Such as why did Larry Silverstein decide to pull building 7? and how do you pull, without setting explosives? and why wasn't Rudy wearing a toupee that day? But there's more evidence pointing otherwise for now.

London Bombings however, is a different story.

[Howlin' Wolf]

Tulip...it makes perfect sense. I've never thought of it that way...I can see those buildings collaspe in my mind...did the collaspe begin at the top where the planes hit? No, don't think so. One behind the other.....hmmm...Could they have been that precise?

Is what I am thinking what you are saying.?...there were explosives or other bombs planted previous to ensure the job would be finished?


definately. the architects of the towers built them to withstand impact from a 747. There are also reports from firefighters saying that explosions were going off inside the buiding. Far from the impact zone.

In addition, building 7 imploded on itself 6 hours after the fact. The official story says that the cause was from fire and debris. I was once a firefighter. I have seen houses, cheaply built houses burn for a day or 2 before the roof caves in. Am i really expected to believe that fire and debris would cause a government building to IMPLODE on itself?

of course, I understand that JL and E dont make this topic easy to swallow with their maniacal rantings. So if anyone would like to discuss these things in depth, I have a wealth of information.

and Valpo, these same scientists and architects that most likely will say that fire does cause steel skyscrapers to implode on themselves in a perfect fashion probably also advocate evolution and global warming. so at one point is one's credibility challenged?

[Valpo]

and Valpo, these same scientists and architects that most likely will say that fire does cause steel skyscrapers to implode on themselves in a perfect fashion probably also advocate evolution and global warming. so at one point is one's credibility challenged?

Not necessarily. The ones I see on a regular basis are Christian, who buy into creation, in fact a literal 6 day creation.

Steel can melt under extreme temperature and I feel as though these theories also discount the idea that gas pipes are all over buildings and under pressure and certain temperatures those can explode. So although the infrastructure of a building may be built to withstand a 747, any thing that happens because of that can cause stress on the structure to create explosions and implosions. Unique instance? perhaps. But I think it's a far cry from government/CIA/Jewish conspiracy to start a war in a part of the world which has always been difficult and never known peace. Furthermore it is a far cry to say bin Laden is a boogie man and those videos and audio messages which are put out and received first by the Arab world are doctored by the US govt.

I may bow out though, I have far too much respect for your understanding of the supremacy of God to get bogged down in this.

[Evanescence]

Some points...

Valpo doesn't...or at least didn't believe in false-flag ops. he fought me long and hard despite PROOF that false-flag ops have happened and have been PLANNED by our country ON our own country. Its the oldest trick in the book....and part of our proven history. 911 would be the most drastic however.....and again, I make no final conclusions.

Building 7

Building 7 was a 600+ foot tall skyscraper that was one of he biggest in the states. It was within the WTC complex...several hundred yards from the twin towers. It was NOT hit by a plane...and had no significant fires burning in it. Media video and pics prove this.

It dropped like a rock at 5:30 PM. it, like the twin towers, fell at freefall speed, defying the laws of gravity.

Here are a few vids...undoctored from the Building 7 collapse:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A

10 second vid of the drop

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4k6GMddY-lQ&feature=related

Another one...30 seconds. Watch how the MIDDLE section...the penthouse drops down inside the building as the rest of it collapses in on itself, falling.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LRkQ7Tr9Q3o&feature=related

Another view of #7....30 seconds

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjOi2dQSM&feature=related

1 minute clip that shows 2 steel buildings that burned for 16 hrs...but never failed. then the collapse of Building 7.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HgoSOQ2xrbI&feature=related

2 min clip....a German demolition expert reviews the #7 vids...and says it was no doubt a drop. He had never seen the vid before. he explains why.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=51FIPMlrFf4&feature=related

1 min clip. For the sake of argument, this Vid shows SOME damage to the southside of the building....damage from the collapse of the south tower. However curious, its not enough to convince experts and others that a building would fail in such a manner....at freefall speed....in its own footprint.

Here's a pic of #7....not very convincing fires or damage:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/wtc7gash.jpg

Building 7....yeah, some damage. But regardless....why did it fall at freefall speed...in its own footprint? Why were there ejection squibs seen pushing out of the sides of the building...and when it fell, there were breaks and bends in it....from it's initiation of collapse. These are earmarks of controlled demo.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/OK-city.jpg

OK city bombing.....ripped right up the middle. Perhaps not the same engineering.....but it did not drop like a rock.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/-WTCs-Aspestos.gif

The aspetos company uses the WTC complex in its ad. I beleieve the entire complex...all buildings were RE-fireproofed in the 70s....

Why did John Kerry tell people at a town hall meeting that: "Building 7 was brought down in a controlled fashion because one of the walls was failing"-- You Tube vid available...I cannot find it.

???

Folks, it takes weeks or days to rig a building.

Why did the sprinklers fail in Building 7?

I too struggle with how all 3 buildings could be rigged for demolition....the logisitics would be a nightmare....they were enormous. Therefore, I do not draw any conclusions. However, the 911 report and NIST still have NOT talked about Building 7. They cannot explain its demise.

So, what was in Building 7?

Two key offices. Securities and exchange Comm and a CIA office. Its rumored that the ENRON files were in Building 7.....not no more.

Also, the NYC Port authority DID get a quote on how much it would take to DEMOLISH the WTCs. Why? Because they were a DANGER due to the massive amiounts of aspestos. The cost? Over 1 billion.

Fact is, the WTCs were a huge liability, danger and eyesore. Lease holders were leaving...spaces were available..it was a huge pain in the butt. But, step in NYC real estate tycoon, Larry Silverstein....he bought the lease and immediately had the insurance increased to include terror attacks. He made nearly 10 Billion from the attacks...and is not suing NYC and others for MORE.

Ask yourself this question. Why didn't at least ONE of these buildings TOPPLE...why did they drop in their own footprint?

[Evanescence]

Steel can melt under extreme temperature and I feel as though these theories also discount the idea that gas pipes are all over buildings and under pressure and certain temperatures those can explode.

Valpo you are wrong. bro, I eat drink and sleep this stuff...

Steel only melts at 2800 degrees. The NIST came out and changed their original findings saying that the temp in the WTCs never got about 500-600 degrees.....factor in the fire proofing and lack of oxygen....it doesn't add up.

And...gas? Nope, sorry to tell you, ALL the WTCs buildings were under new fire codes.....NO GAS was allowed in them. All the restaurants were electric. this is common knowledge.

Now, Building 7 had some diesel engines for generators in it....and some diesel tanks as well. Twin towers did not....at least not up inside....perhaps the basement. Some of the explosions could have been the diesel tanks....and some were heard in Building 7.

But, that doesn't explain its collpase in the manner it failed....freefall speed....just like a controlled demo.

[Jesuslove]

Some points...

Valpo doesn't...or at least didn't believe in false-flag ops. he fought me long and hard despite PROOF that false-flag ops have happened and have been PLANNED by our country ON our own country. Its the oldest trick in the book....and part of our proven history. 911 would be the most drastic however.....and again, I make no final conclusions.

Building 7

Building 7 was a 600+ foot tall skyscraper that was one of he biggest in the states. It was within the WTC complex...several hundred yards from the twin towers. It was NOT hit by a plane...and had no significant fires burning in it. Media video and pics prove this.

It dropped like a rock at 5:30 PM. it, like the twin towers, fell at freefall speed, defying the laws of gravity.

Here are a few vids...undoctored from the Building 7 collapse:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LD06SAf0p9A

10 second vid of the drop

http://youtube.com/watch?v=4k6GMddY-lQ&feature=related

Another one...30 seconds. Watch how the MIDDLE section...the penthouse drops down inside the building as the rest of it collapses in on itself, falling.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=LRkQ7Tr9Q3o&feature=related

Another view of #7....30 seconds

http://youtube.com/watch?v=GEPjOi2dQSM&feature=related

1 minute clip that shows 2 steel buildings that burned for 16 hrs...but never failed. then the collapse of Building 7.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=HgoSOQ2xrbI&feature=related

2 min clip....a German demolition expert reviews the #7 vids...and says it was no doubt a drop. He had never seen the vid before. he explains why.

http://youtube.com/watch?v=51FIPMlrFf4&feature=related

1 min clip. For the sake of argument, this Vid shows SOME damage to the southside of the building....damage from the collapse of the south tower. However curious, its not enough to convince experts and others that a building would fail in such a manner....at freefall speed....in its own footprint.

Here's a pic of #7....not very convincing fires or damage:

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/wtc7gash.jpg

Building 7....yeah, some damage. But regardless....why did it fall at freefall speed...in its own footprint? Why were there ejection squibs seen pushing out of the sides of the building...and when it fell, there were breaks and bends in it....from it's initiation of collapse. These are earmarks of controlled demo.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/OK-city.jpg

OK city bombing.....ripped right up the middle. Perhaps not the same engineering.....but it did not drop like a rock.

http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c97/scooterl/-WTCs-Aspestos.gif

The aspetos company uses the WTC complex in its ad. I beleieve the entire complex...all buildings were RE-fireproofed in the 70s....

Why did John Kerry tell people at a town hall meeting that: "Building 7 was brought down in a controlled fashion because one of the walls was failing"-- You Tube vid available...I cannot find it.

???

Folks, it takes weeks or days to rig a building.

Why did the sprinklers fail in Building 7?

I too struggle with how all 3 buildings could be rigged for demolition....the logisitics would be a nightmare....they were enormous. Therefore, I do not draw any conclusions. However, the 911 report and NIST still have NOT talked about Building 7. They cannot explain its demise.

So, what was in Building 7?

Two key offices. Securities and exchange Comm and a CIA office. Its rumored that the ENRON files were in Building 7.....not no more.

Also, the NYC Port authority DID get a quote on how much it would take to DEMOLISH the WTCs. Why? Because they were a DANGER due to the massive amiounts of aspestos. The cost? Over 1 billion.

Fact is, the WTCs were a huge liability, danger and eyesore. Lease holders were leaving...spaces were available..it was a huge pain in the butt. But, step in NYC real estate tycoon, Larry Silverstein....he bought the lease and immediately had the insurance increased to include terror attacks. He made nearly 10 Billion from the attacks...and is not suing NYC and others for MORE.

Ask yourself this question. Why didn't at least ONE of these buildings TOPPLE...why did they drop in their own footprint?

Ev,
I agree wtih just about everything you said. Everything is plausable. However, I never saw the buildings as eyesores. They were beautiful buildings. I saw the Trade Centers on 9/9/01; they were sparkling in the Summer sky. I also stayed at the Marriott several times; the one that connected the two towers.

Your analysis has me speechless. Now I undestand why we haven't caught Osama bin Laden, and why his relatives in America were allowed to leave the US after 9/11, at a time when no flights were taking off or landing. Amazing!

[Evanescence]

Two other things:

1. There's a LOT of Christians coming out that they do not beleieve the official story....and feel soemthing is VERY wrong. There are quite a few Christian researchers digging into this...

2. I never said the JEWS had anything to do with this. Let me make that clear. I said ZIONISTS...there's a huge difference.

You didn't see them as an eyesore...but you didn't own them. the NYC Port authority did. They certianly did....BUT, this doesn't mean they pulled the trigger etc etc. It may be just coincidence.

Disclaimer; I AM NOT saying the NYC port authortity dropped the WTCs.

JL, this is only the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more wrong witht he story...so many anomilies and conflicts its staggering. It bares a careful eye looking into this. There are some loonies out there making wild statements.....but the majority simply shows the facts...and there's a PILE of them.

Things like the freefall collpase of Building 7 and the WAR GAMES we were conducting the mroning of 911 are just 2 of them....

[Jesuslove]

Two other things:

1. There's a LOT of Christians coming out that they do not beleieve the official story....and feel soemthing is VERY wrong. There are quite a few Christian researchers digging into this...

2. I never said the JEWS had anything to do with this. Let me make that clear. I said ZIONISTS...there's a huge difference.

JL, this is only the tip of the iceberg. There's so much more wrong witht he story...so many anomilies and conflicts its staggering. It bares a careful eye looking into this. There are some loonies out there making wild statements.....but the majority simply shows the facts...and there's a PILE of them.

Things like the freefall collpase of Building 7 and the WAR GAMES we were conducting the mroning of 911 are just 2 of them....

I don't understand why Americans are outraged. Why aren't we demanding answers from our government? Why aren't Americans outraged? And when you suggest there are a lot of unanswered questions, you get visciously attacked by members of this board as if you were anti-American? I don't get it.

[WeaselInYerFoot]

WTC7 had a massive chunk missing out of the south corner. I don't see that in your photos.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h205/thetruthwill_out/June2004WTC7_Page_16_crop ped.jpg

That's 18 stories worth of building gouged out of the structure.

Probably caused by this:

http://img164.imageshack.us/img164/5307/34283353qp0.jpg

When you have 3 1/2 to 5 ton pieces of iron raining on you, it's bound to do more than just fires.

Reports tell of firefighters who mentioned the severity of the damage from wtc1's falling pieces, and how it was leaning to the south. Which, if you look at the videos, the building does lean south as it collapses.

But still, there's other questions that need to be answered.

[Evanescence]

Good work Weasel....and I didn't have access to those pics...

While I will agree there was damage....and perhaps more than I realize...I just cannot swallow 3 skyscrapers dropping like that. I won't say controlled demo...but I can't swallow it as a natural occurence....

[Evanescence]

I don't understand why Americans are outraged. Why aren't we demanding answers from our government? Why aren't Americans outraged? And when you suggest there are a lot of unanswered questions, you get visciously attacked by members of this board as if you were anti-American? I don't get it.

Easy....we've been programmed to BELIEVE the media..which is programmed by the Govt. Not brainwashing per se...but darn close to it.

One of the main systems of communism or marxism is:

Chaos and control

They create the chaos....cloaked....and the people go to them for control. Thats why Bushy keeps using 911 as a weapon of propaganda for iraq and other issues-- the war on terror. I see right thru it...BS to the highest.

If you fell for the official 911 story then you automatically go into "Neo -con mode." WAR....KILL....DESTROY.

They got the emtoional response they wanted....anger and outrage needed for war. Its the sole purpose of false-flag attacks. Works every time.

But, this was botched....terribly flawed....as will the next one. People are seeing thru 911 and thru this corrupt Govt and the slugs that run it. People are asking tough questions and demanding answers. I pray we learn the truth....and America will once again prosper.

Anyone know about the massive molten meteors that simmered under the WTC complex for 4-6 weeks after the attack?

[Jason]

But I can't swallow it as a natural occurence....

It wasn't. There were these planes flown by Islamic extremists and ... oh, forget it, I won't spoil the story for you.

[Evanescence]

It wasn't. There were these planes flown by Islamic extremists and ... oh, forget it, I won't spoil the story for you.

Yeah, I heard that one already...the CT the Govt fed us...

No proof on that theory either.... :D

[danbos]

As for the windows "blowing out," it's actually pretty easy to explain. The building is collapsing and the windows are breaking...where is the glass going to go? Out of course, for one very simple reason. The building is falling, which means that the volume enclosed by the walls is shrinking, yet there is the same amount of air inside. This builds up pressure, which alone, is probably not enough to break the windows, but when the building is collapsing on itself, the force from above is enough to break the windows. When the windows break, the glass has to go somewhere, and since there is higher pressure inside the building than outside the building the glass will go out with the air that is escaping.

EDIT: Looking at the videos you've posted again, I've just noticed something else. If you watch the videos closely, you'll see that there is no ejection out the sides of the building until AFTER the building starts to collapse. But, if you look at some videos of controlled demolitions, you'll see that there is ejection BEFORE the building collapses as well.

Watch the bottom of the building, it clearly blows out before the collapse.
http://youtube.com/watch?v=QhXuUd4doSE&feature=related

And the Stardust and Frontier implosions...you can see it blow quite a ways out the side(Note, these videos have quite a bit of introduction before the actual demolition):
http://youtube.com/watch?v=zmZJc68zyAA
http://youtube.com/watch?v=h3K3kEDEAN4

[Evanescence]

As for the windows "blowing out," it's actually pretty easy to explain. The building is collapsing and the windows are breaking...where is the glass going to go? Out of course, for one very simple reason. The building is falling, which means that the volume enclosed by the walls is shrinking, yet there is the same amount of air inside. This builds up pressure, which alone, is probably not enough to break the windows, but when the building is collapsing on itself, the force from above is enough to break the windows. When the windows break, the glass has to go somewhere, and since there is higher pressure inside the building than outside the building the glass will go out with the air that is escaping.

I agree with this.....I'm not sold on the SQUIBS that many say can be seen blowing out the sides...as evidence of explosives. They CAN be see on other Con Demos, but it doesn't prove anything.

The fact that they didn't topple is VERY suspiscious...as is the molten metal and massive meteors found at ground zero...

Also, the cleanup.....VERY troubling. A crime scene swept clean immediately....all the steel sold for scrap...the concrete and HUMAN remains dumped in the sea....

[danbos]

I agree with this.....I'm not sold on the SQUIBS that many say can be seen blowing out the sides...as evidence of explosives. They CAN be see on other Con Demos, but it doesn't prove anything.

The fact that they didn't topple is VERY suspiscious...as is the molten metal and massive meteors found at ground zero...

Also, the cleanup.....VERY troubling. A crime scene swept clean immediately....all the steel sold for scrap...the concrete and HUMAN remains dumped in the sea....

Do you have proof on human remains being dumped in the sea? Because I was just out there 2 years ago, and they were in the process of dismantling a building next to it when they found human remains, and stopped the dismantling just because a few bone fragments...because they wanted to try to ID the victims.

And as I just edited in my othere post, the only time you see squibs on controlled demolitions due to explosives is before the the building starts to fall. If you see them afterward, it the same thing, just air pressure blowing out the broken windows.

[Evanescence]

Do you have proof on human remains being dumped in the sea? Because I was just out there 2 years ago, and they were in the process of dismantling a building next to it when they found human remains, and stopped the dismantling just because a few bone fragments...because they wanted to try to ID the victims.

And as I just edited in my othere post, the only time you see squibs on controlled demolitions due to explosives is before the the building starts to fall. If you see them afterward, it the same thing, just air pressure blowing out the broken windows.

The entire area was swept clean almost right away...thats why so many people have never been ID'd. The Steel went to China, the rest out to sea....only a fraction was held for storage at the NIST or OSHA investigations. I'm sure thats docuemented. They got whatever remains they could but the majority of the debris...was immediately discarded.

Squibs are seen on all 3 WTCs buildings as they began to fall....

[danbos]

The entire area was swept clean almost right away...thats why so many people have never been ID'd. The Steel went to China, the rest out to sea....only a fraction was held for storage at the NIST or OSHA investigations. I'm sure thats docuemented. They got whatever remains they could but the majority of the debris...was immediately discarded.

I can see your point here, but it's not very practical to have many blocks just completely shut down in one of the biggest cities in the world for several years while an investigation takes place. And yes, you can look at it from the point of view that it may have been the government and that is why they got rid of evidence, but you can also look at from the point of view that it was terrorists and evidence really doesn't make a difference, because the evidence would only serve to identify what we already knew, which was the people who actually flew the planes into the buildings...and knowing who they are doesn't do a thing for us. A terrorist act can not really be prosecuted if the only people proven to be involved are burned up in a building.

And as for so many people being unidentified, don't you think it could have to do with the fact that there was a fire burning at 1000 degrees Celsius? You think that may have burned up some bodies? You think some bodies after being burned and fallen 100 stories and then smoldering some more might not be able to be differentiated from office furniture which has undergone the same thing?

Squibs are seen on all 3 WTCs buildings as they began to fall....

And as I've said before, this is due to the air pressure, and are only seen after the collapse begins, which is common for any building collapsing, controlled or not.

[Evanescence]

I can see your point here, but it's not very practical to have many blocks just completely shut down in one of the biggest cities in the world for several years while an investigation takes place. And yes, you can look at it from the point of view that it may have been the government and that is why they got rid of evidence, but you can also look at from the point of view that it was terrorists and evidence really doesn't make a difference, because the evidence would only serve to identify what we already knew, which was the people who actually flew the planes into the buildings...and knowing who they are doesn't do a thing for us. A terrorist act can not really be prosecuted if the only people proven to be involved are burned up in a building.

And as for so many people being unidentified, don't you think it could have to do with the fact that there was a fire burning at 1000 degrees Celsius? You think that may have burned up some bodies? You think some bodies after being burned and fallen 100 stories and then smoldering some more might not be able to be differentiated from office furniture which has undergone the same thing?



And as I've said before, this is due to the air pressure, and are only seen after the collapse begins, which is common for any building collapsing, controlled or not.

I agree...all good points.

I wouldn't be so cynical if the 911 Comm wasn't so flawed....

Funny you should mention shutting down a city....

The White House throughout the EPA and other emergency agencies recommnedation that the stock market and lower Manhattan stay closed for several more days. They even had the news changed...and made everyone think it was safe to come back. It was not.

Now, there are thousands more sick and dying from the bad air conditions and contamination. More people will die from this....than the actual attacks.

All for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $$$$

[Howlin' Wolf]

Look at E's pic of the oklahoma city bombing. there is more than just some chunk missing and that building didnt fall.

it is a serious stretch of faith to believe the official story.

anyone want to discuss NORAD?

[Evanescence]

Look at E's pic of the oklahoma city bombing. there is more than just some chunk missing and that building didnt fall.

it is a serious stretch of faith to believe the official story.

anyone want to discuss NORAD?


I will...

The CIA and NORAD were conducting war games the VERY MORNING of 911....some of the drills sent our fighters up to Northern Canada, the others to
the South. Called; Northern Vigilance, Global Guardian and Vigilant Guardian.

These are confirmed and docuemtned in the 911 Comm reprot, Chapt 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Guardian

Global Guardian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_ex ercises_scheduled_for_Sep tember_11%2C_2001

War games on the morning of 911.....documented and confirmed. Many FAA officials didn't know if it was real or exercise...

One of the exercises included a hijacked plane over the east coast....

Coincidence?

[danbos]

Look at E's pic of the oklahoma city bombing. there is more than just some chunk missing and that building didnt fall.

it is a serious stretch of faith to believe the official story.

anyone want to discuss NORAD?

Yes, let's look at E's pics of the OK City bombing...the whole half of the building is missing...then look at Weasel's pic of WTC7...just the bottom is missing, with the whole part of the building above it still wanting to come down due to gravity. Then there's the whole issue of was there a fire involved with the OK City bombing or just the blast ripping off the side of the building.

I will...

The CIA and NORAD were conducting war games the VERY MORNING of 911....some of the drills sent our fighters up to Northern Canada, the others to
the South. Called; Northern Vigilance, Global Guardian and Vigilant Guardian.

These are confirmed and docuemtned in the 911 Comm reprot, Chapt 1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Guardian

Global Guardian

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_military_ex ercises_scheduled_for_Sep tember_11%2C_2001

War games on the morning of 911.....documented and confirmed. Many FAA officials didn't know if it was real or exercise...

One of the exercises included a hijacked plane over the east coast....

Coincidence?

I honestly don't know anything about the whole NORAD thing, but I have a hard time believing that our government would be stupid enough to leave that kind of evidence against themselves...don't you think they would've done it a couple weeks in advance or something...I mean, if they did plan 9/11 they'd have to know that war games on that morning would raise suspicion.

[Evanescence]

ALSO....

There's some serious issues with Dick Cheney, the timeline that he was at NORAD and what happened there, with his involvement...

1. The 911 Comm report states Cheney was wisked away to the bunker below the White House where NORAD was housed. The report says he was there at 9:45, but Norm Mineta, Trans Secretary stated that he was there and Cheney was already there at 9:30.

These are rounded off numbers...the point is there is a HUGE descepency in the timeline with Cheney.

2. Then, Mineta stated that he witnessed a man enter and tell Cheney the plane was out, 60 miles, then 50, then 40, then 30, then 20. ...asking Cheney each time if the ORDER STILL STANDS.

Cheney insisted and said YES! Angrily. That plane then hit the Pent....

Question is, WHAT was the order....and why wasn't our fighters scrambled?

Why, over the course of 2+ hrs, was there none of our planes scrambled?

For those skeptics...here's the C- SPAN footage from Mineta's testimony...

http://youtube.com/watch?v=bDfdOwt2v3Y

http://youtube.com/watch?v=u-5PKQTUz5o&feature=related

Truthers meet Norm Mineta and ask him about the timeline issue...

Cheney, Rumsfeld and the madmen in PNAC are an integral part of this...I am sure of it. Bush probaly knew nothing....but was probably forced to cover it up. Then took advantage of it with Iraq and Afghanistan....

This is just theory of mine....

Civil war or massive riots would break out if it came out that it was some kind of inside job or that the attack was allowed to happen...AND Bush could be implicated soemhow..even if he wasn't involved. For all we know he could have been framed and FORCED to go along with it...after the fact.

In the world of black ops.....no one is your friend and anything goes. This is why the CIA, Israel or the Mossad should be considered. Esp with who was blamed....radical muslims....and what is now going on in the Middle East.

Regardless, we WILL get to the bottom of it.....its like a festering wound...getting worse by the day.

[Evanescence]

I honestly don't know anything about the whole NORAD thing, but I have a hard time believing that our government would be stupid enough to leave that kind of evidence against themselves...don't you think they would've done it a couple weeks in advance or something...I mean, if they did plan 9/11 they'd have to know that war games on that morning would raise suspicion.


Correct...I do not know. I do know that in several false-flaggers, drills were being performed....AND emergency personell were stationed on hand...also doing drills.

This was the case with Pearl Harbor....

I have always siad that the operation was probbaly done with outsiders...which now I am leaning toward the Mossad...AND with very few people. I do not believe this was a massive scale operation which included dozens of people from various different depts of Govt or military. Somehow, it was a large scale op...done by a few people.

But the war games and FEMA terror drills in NYC are highly suspiecious.....as is the drills that were happening at the London train bombing. There are earmarks of false-flag ops.....drills are one of them...

[Evanescence]

http://youtube.com/watch?v=J1bm2GPoFfg&feature=related

Here's a GREAT Vid about the 911 Comm and why they kept dodging the issue of Israel and our support of them. In one case, agents were asked about the MOTIVE for the 911 attacks....they stated our involvement with Israel and Palestine.

Watch the two eels squirm.....Hamilton and McCean as they are asked questions about Israel....

There is a connection here...I am sure of it...

[Howlin' Wolf]

Yes, let's look at E's pics of the OK City bombing...the whole half of the building is missing...then look at Weasel's pic of WTC7...just the bottom is missing, with the whole part of the building above it still wanting to come down due to gravity. Then there's the whole issue of was there a fire involved with the OK City bombing or just the blast ripping off the side of the building.



I honestly don't know anything about the whole NORAD thing, but I have a hard time believing that our government would be stupid enough to leave that kind of evidence against themselves...don't you think they would've done it a couple weeks in advance or something...I mean, if they did plan 9/11 they'd have to know that war games on that morning would raise suspicion.

the fact that they actually had the war games and neutered the air force from doing their job should raise suspicion. Most still dismiss it as with all the evidence as you are doing.

[Evanescence]

Doing the same thing over and over again, expecting the same result is known as insanity. - Albert Einstein

Overwhelming coincidence almost always points to fact. - Evanescence

[WeaselInYerFoot]

Look at E's pic of the oklahoma city bombing. there is more than just some chunk missing and that building didnt fall.

it is a serious stretch of faith to believe the official story.

anyone want to discuss NORAD?

NORAD is one of those questions that need to be answered. My take on it is that it's possible that they were aware of the attacks and then allowed it to happen. But I just don't believe that they intentionally set up the collapse of these buildings. That would take thousands of people, and not one of them has come out and claimed that they were part of the orchestration.

[Evanescence]

NORAD is one of those questions that need to be answered. My take on it is that it's possible that they were aware of the attacks and then allowed it to happen. But I just don't believe that they intentionally set up the collapse of these buildings. That would take thousands of people, and not one of them has come out and claimed that they were part of the orchestration.

CHENEY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Howlin' Wolf]

NORAD is one of those questions that need to be answered. My take on it is that it's possible that they were aware of the attacks and then allowed it to happen. But I just don't believe that they intentionally set up the collapse of these buildings. That would take thousands of people, and not one of them has come out and claimed that they were part of the orchestration.

it wouldnt take thousands of people to place explosives in the buildings. and it only takes one person to take down NORAD.

[Evanescence]

Tulip, you think Barbara Olson's husband knows something?