California starts gay marriages today...

[Evanescence]

Its a big deal out there today....a bunch of gays and lesbians are heading out to get hitched. On the news, they showed two 75-80 yr old women getting hitched....they'd been together their whole lives.

Only in California...

I do not agree with this rule by the CA Supreme Court. I choose not to judge or condemn gays...but do not believe a marriage should be between anyone other than a man and woman....

[rossid]

You live there? My condolences and my agreement with your belief. Our court overturned a state law in Iowa. An amendment seems unlikely with democrats in control of everything (senate, house & governor).

I hate to use words like 'signs of the end times' but just acknowledge this as America continuing its spiral as it will eventually become a second-rate country. These social issues could impact economic, etc.

[Evanescence]

no...I live in PA

[Howlin' Wolf]

good for them.

[Aussie3rddayfan]

Its a big deal out there today....a bunch of gays and lesbians are heading out to get hitched. On the news, they showed two 75-80 yr old women getting hitched....they'd been together their whole lives.

Only in California...

I do not agree with this rule by the CA Supreme Court. I choose not to judge or condemn gays...but do not believe a marriage should be between anyone other than a man and woman....

While I can respect people's choices I do not condone such behaviour. Nor am I in favour of the courts decision. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.

[kiwisongbird]

You know what? In God's eyes they're not married, He's not into it - it's just a man-made law - don't really see why we need to get our knickers in a twist too much (panties in a bunch...)

[ausgirl]

You know what? In God's eyes they're not married, He's not into it - it's just a man-made law - don't really see why we need to get our knickers in a twist too much (panties in a bunch...)
Perhaps it is because those of us who place a high value the sanctity of marriage feel it is somewhat of an offense to consider same sex marriage of the same importance.....

[Aussie3rddayfan]

Perhaps it is because those of us who place a high value the sanctity of marriage feel it is somewhat of an offense to consider same sex marriage of the same importance.....

And because it's a sign of society with spiraling morals.

Of course, marriage is just a title and a legal state (with all the legal rights that go with it). I am sure they will carry on with all of the behaviour they did before gay marriage became legal, which is the crux of the problem. Like you said, kiwi, gay marriage is not marriage, it is simply a legal state.

[Jesuslove]

And because it's a sign of society with spirally morals.

Of course, marriage is just a title and a legal state (with all the legal rights that go with it). I am sure they will carry on with all of the behaviour they did before gay marriage became legal, which is the crux of the problem. Like you said, kiwi, gay marriage is not marriage, it is simply a legal state.

You are right. Gay marriage is more a social marriage. But whatever it's called, I think it's important that certain rights are conveyed.

Personally I don't think homosexuals are destroying marriage. Heterosexuals have done a fine job of that with the 50% divorce rate. I read this week that in Massachusetts, only 50 divorces have been issued among the 10,000 marriages performed since gay marriage became legal there. That's less than 1/2 of 1%.

To me, the solution would be for everyone to have civil unions. If someone desires to have a church marriage, so be it. I also believe heterosexuals should be held to a higher standard than homosexuals if they want to "own" the word marriage. I support covenant marriages, which would be very hard to dissolve. Whatever the case, if marriage is such a important societal standard, then we as a society should make it as hard as possible for one to get a divorce.

One last note. Politicians are very passionate about the issue of gay marriage, but they aren't as passionate about the issue of divorce. Why?

[SacredHeart]

You are right. Gay marriage is more a social marriage. But whatever it's called, I think it's important that certain rights are conveyed.

Personally I don't think homosexuals are destroying marriage. Heterosexuals have done a fine job of that with the 50% divorce rate. I read this week that in Massachusetts, only 50 divorces have been issued among the 10,000 marriages performed since gay marriage became legal there. That's less than 1/2 of 1%.

To me, the solution would be for everyone to have civil unions. If someone desires to have a church marriage, so be it. I also believe heterosexuals should be held to a higher standard than homosexuals if they want to "own" the word marriage. I support covenant marriages, which would be very hard to dissolve. Whatever the case, if marriage is such a important societal standard, then we as a society should make it as hard as possible for one to get a divorce.

One last note. Politicians are very passionate about the issue of gay marriage, but they aren't as passionate about the issue of divorce. Why?

You've made some EXCELLENT points, Jesuslove. Heterosexuals are responsible for the disintegration of the holy state of matrimony. We've made it an unholy thing and so is it any wonder we are here today having this discussion? And with the divorce rate nearly as high among the American christian community as the non-christian community, our words are empty and of little value as we spout our bible verses and views to the world.

[kiwisongbird]

That's what I was trying to say - I certainly value the sanctity of marriage - sad that we've mucked it up so much - I think the idea of civil unions is much better with an option of getting married elsewhere - in NZ there is no gay marriage but they can have a civil union...




You are right. Gay marriage is more a social marriage. But whatever it's called, I think it's important that certain rights are conveyed.

Personally I don't think homosexuals are destroying marriage. Heterosexuals have done a fine job of that with the 50% divorce rate. I read this week that in Massachusetts, only 50 divorces have been issued among the 10,000 marriages performed since gay marriage became legal there. That's less than 1/2 of 1%.

To me, the solution would be for everyone to have civil unions. If someone desires to have a church marriage, so be it. I also believe heterosexuals should be held to a higher standard than homosexuals if they want to "own" the word marriage. I support covenant marriages, which would be very hard to dissolve. Whatever the case, if marriage is such a important societal standard, then we as a society should make it as hard as possible for one to get a divorce.

One last note. Politicians are very passionate about the issue of gay marriage, but they aren't as passionate about the issue of divorce. Why?

[Aussie3rddayfan]

You've made some EXCELLENT points, Jesuslove. Heterosexuals are responsible for the disintegration of the holy state of matrimony. We've made it an unholy thing and so is it any wonder we are here today having this discussion? And with the divorce rate nearly as high among the American christian community as the non-christian community, our words are empty and of little value as we spout our bible verses and views to the world.

It's funny isn't it (actually it's not)? When Jesus walked the earth he spoke about how important marriage is. And yet we haven't learned our lesson. It's been 2000 years, but it seems marriage still isn't given the respect and consideration it deserves by society as a whole. And yes, hetro-sexual couples are mainly/mostly responsible. And Christians are no different. As you say, SacredHeart, our words are meaningless, and our actions worse. Perhaps we should take the time before marriage to really get to know the person. Love is a very powerful emotion, and sometimes it can get the better of our reason and our judgement.

What then is the answer?

[Howlin' Wolf]

It's funny isn't it (actually it's not)? When Jesus walked the earth he spoke about how important marriage is. And yet we haven't learned our lesson. It's been 2000 years, but it seems marriage still isn't given the respect and consideration it deserves by society as a whole. And yes, hetro-sexual couples are mainly/mostly responsible. And Christians are no different. As you say, SacredHeart, our words are meaningless, and our actions worse. Perhaps we should take the time before marriage to really get to know the person. Love is a very powerful emotion, and sometimes it can get the better of our reason and our judgement.

What then is the answer?


the answer is for the church to clean up her own backyard before she goes knocking on the world's door.

[Les_Is_More]

What ticks me off is that the politicians, who we voted into office, think that they can make whatever laws they want even though the citizens voted it down. In Oregon, we voters turned down a measure to allow gay marriages. Then our state legislature, in their infinite wisdom(:rolleyes:), passed a bill, without voter aproval, that allowed gay couples to get a "domestic partnership."

This kind of sums-up my stance on the hole issue:
21 So the LORD God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh; 22 and the rib which the LORD God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man. 23 Then the man said, "This at last is bone of my bones and flesh of my flesh; she shall be called Woman, because she was taken out of Man." 24 Therefore a man leaves his father and his mother and cleaves to his wife, and they become one flesh.

[Jake]

the answer is for the church to clean up her own backyard before she goes knocking on the world's door.

Amen!

Where is it that judgement begins again?

[Howlin' Wolf]

what ticks me off is that christians are so concerned at passing laws while their kids are smoking dope in the youth group, the girls in the youth groups are having abortions, churches are being divided over menial issues, deacons are cheating on their wives, pastors are having homosexual relationships, and the divorce rate is the same as non-believers.

If these issues pissed off christians as much as gay marriage, then we would be getting somewhere.

Before we ever open our mouths about the sanctity of marriage, lets try getting our divorce rates down to less than 10%.

[Aussie3rddayfan]

what ticks me off is that christians are so concerned at passing laws while their kids are smoking dope in the youth group, the girls in the youth groups are having abortions, churches are being divided over menial issues, deacons are cheating on their wives, pastors are having homosexual relationships, and the divorce rate is the same as non-believers.

If these issues pissed off christians as much as damn gay marriage, then we would be getting somewhere.

Before we ever open our mouths about the sanctity of marriage, lets try getting our divorce rates down to less than 10%.

Yes, yes, yes and yes. I hate to think what would happen if Jesus reviewed some of today's churches like he did for those in Asia Minor in Revelation.

[ausgirl]

what ticks me off is that christians are so concerned at passing laws while their kids are smoking dope in the youth group, the girls in the youth groups are having abortions, churches are being divided over menial issues, deacons are cheating on their wives, pastors are having homosexual relationships, and the divorce rate is the same as non-believers.

If these issues pissed off christians as much as damn gay marriage, then we would be getting somewhere.

Before we ever open our mouths about the sanctity of marriage, lets try getting our divorce rates down to less than 10%.
I can't believe it, but.......

Tulip I agree!

[EmmoGomer]

Well said Jason. I believe your popularity may have just shot up - lol ;)!!

[Tony Trout]

While I can respect people's choices I do not condone such behaviour. Nor am I in favour of the courts decision. God created Adam and Eve not Adam and Steve.


Its a big deal out there today....a bunch of gays and lesbians are heading out to get hitched. On the news, they showed two 75-80 yr old women getting hitched....they'd been together their whole lives.

Only in California...

I do not agree with this rule by the CA Supreme Court. I choose not to judge or condemn gays...but do not believe a marriage should be between anyone other than a man and woman....

the answer is for the church to clean up her own backyard before she goes knocking on the world's door.



I'll just say "AMEN!" to every post I've quoted....y'all are right on target!





(And Tulip, I do belive your popularity has just shot up, dude....great points!)

[Sam!]

what ticks me off is that christians are so concerned at passing laws while their kids are smoking dope in the youth group, the girls in the youth groups are having abortions, churches are being divided over menial issues, deacons are cheating on their wives, pastors are having homosexual relationships, and the divorce rate is the same as non-believers.

If these issues pissed off christians as much as damn gay marriage, then we would be getting somewhere.

Before we ever open our mouths about the sanctity of marriage, lets try getting our divorce rates down to less than 10%.

I'm not saying this is right, but I think some Christians see all of those things you talk about, Jason, and they are becoming more and more frantic. And so they have found an easy target in gay marriage so that they feel they are doing [I]something/I]. The Church is under so much pressure to conform to culture, and they say to themselves "wouldn't it just be easier if there was one less difference between culture and church?" It's easier to stand against homosexual "marriage" if culture doesn't allow it either.

But the church is in desperate need of renewal, I agree. I'm just wondering how much more moral the church has to become to comment on social matters? Because all of those things you mention that are wrong with the church don't change the fact it is objectively WRONG for two men to marry and have sex with one another and why should the church be silent on the matter?

[Howlin' Wolf]

I'm not saying this is right, but I think some Christians see all of those things you talk about, Jason, and they are becoming more and more frantic. And so they have found an easy target in gay marriage so that they feel they are doing [I]something/I]. The Church is under so much pressure to conform to culture, and they say to themselves "wouldn't it just be easier if there was one less difference between culture and church?" It's easier to stand against homosexual "marriage" if culture doesn't allow it either.

But the church is in desperate need of renewal, I agree. I'm just wondering how much more moral the church has to become to comment on social matters? Because all of those things you mention that are wrong with the church don't change the fact it is objectively WRONG for two men to marry and have sex with one another and why should the church be silent on the matter?

I dont think its a matter of how much moral we need to become. That will come with a solid biblical revival. The church's biggest sin is its lack of abiding and trust in Christ. When we deal with that, thats when we will gain the relevance we are seeking. Thats when the world wont look at us and scoff. They will lokk to us for hope.

Now, while I will whole heartedly agree that homosexuality is wrong, I dont see the need to even form an opinion as to what their rights, in a godless country, should be. We are not a theocracy. I found it refreshing to live in a muslim nation. It amplified my faith more than living in the comfort of america with my rights.

[Evanescence]

Love is in the air !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cool:

[Jesuslove]

I'm not saying this is right, but I think some Christians see all of those things you talk about, Jason, and they are becoming more and more frantic. And so they have found an easy target in gay marriage so that they feel they are doing [I]something/I]. The Church is under so much pressure to conform to culture, and they say to themselves "wouldn't it just be easier if there was one less difference between culture and church?" It's easier to stand against homosexual "marriage" if culture doesn't allow it either.

But the church is in desperate need of renewal, I agree. I'm just wondering how much more moral the church has to become to comment on social matters? Because all of those things you mention that are wrong with the church don't change the fact it is objectively WRONG for two men to marry and have sex with one another and why should the church be silent on the matter?

I think Churches need to enforce rules at any cost. The Bible is against homosexuality. So if a church does not allow gays to celebrate with them, they shoujld also ban divorced people, etc. They seem to have a real issue with gay marriage cause it's safe. These same churches will marry previously divorced people. I don't get it.

[mcgreen311]

But the church is in desperate need of renewal, I agree. I'm just wondering how much more moral the church has to become to comment on social matters? Because all of those things you mention that are wrong with the church don't change the fact it is objectively WRONG for two men to marry and have sex with one another and why should the church be silent on the matter?

I don't see it as an issue of the church having to become moral to comment on social matters, because obviously we will never reach a point where we are moral enough.

(This is not directed at you, Sam, just spoken in general)
I think the problem is that accomplishing a ban on this only serves to "whitewash tombs," and does nothing to change the hearts of those who practice it. I think it's one thing to proclaim that something is wrong and another to force people to abide by our moral law if 1) they are not bound by it as Christians and 2) if it does not cause direct harm to someone else.

Now, you can make the argument that we are all bound by God's moral laws and I don't disagree, but I think he will take care of that on his own in the manner he wishes.

[Yippy]

I think Churches need to enforce rules at any cost. The Bible is against homosexuality. So if a church does not allow gays to celebrate with them, they shoujld also ban divorced people, etc. They seem to have a real issue with gay marriage cause it's safe. These same churches will marry previously divorced people. I don't get it.

Well, just a thought: Many, many previously divorced people made their decisions before their decisions to follow Christ, and I doubt many of those "marriages" were ordained by God nor were they "joined together by Him." So, I don't see why a church would have trouble marrying divorced people whose divorces - & all the other bad choices they made - were washed in the blood, just like they would marry anyone else. Also, it's not like one "practices divorce" like they do homosexuality (except for maybe someone like Elizabeth Taylor ;) ). And no, we don't turn out compulsive liars, cheats, etc., but if their sin was easier to detect, we probably would and (do on rare occasion when someone blatantly sins without regard to the body of Christ).

By the way, no one should be "banned" from coming to Christ or the church. We cannot come to Christ as a "non-sinner." We do have the right as the body of Christ to proclaim His Word - speaking the truth in love.

Feel free to poke holes...:P

[Les_Is_More]

what ticks me off is that christians are so concerned at passing laws while their kids are smoking dope in the youth group, the girls in the youth groups are having abortions, churches are being divided over menial issues, deacons are cheating on their wives, pastors are having homosexual relationships, and the divorce rate is the same as non-believers.

If these issues pissed off christians as much as damn gay marriage, then we would be getting somewhere.

Before we ever open our mouths about the sanctity of marriage, lets try getting our divorce rates down to less than 10%.

This is more than just a church issue. Voters in most of the 50 states have declared that they don't want gay marriage! If we lived back in the good ol' days, the issue would be dealt with, but our politicians turn their back to their "employer"(the citizens) and pass the laws.

I'm not saying these other issues are not important. They are VERY important, but this issue has been brought to us in the form of laws. Therefore this thread was created to discuss the gay marriage issue. I wouldn't say that the entire church is ignoring the divorce, drug, abortion issues. I have personally seen and been apart of many organizations and church groups speaking out against theses problems.

[Healing Oil]

Its a big deal out there today....a bunch of gays and lesbians are heading out to get hitched. On the news, they showed two 75-80 yr old women getting hitched....they'd been together their whole lives.

Only in California...

I do not agree with this rule by the CA Supreme Court. I choose not to judge or condemn gays...but do not believe a marriage should be between anyone other than a man and woman....

I live here in CA and while I choose not to judge or condemn gays either, this saddens me (and I'm a bit angry).

So...yea, it stinks. I watched the first official gay marriage being performed on the news and what disturbed me more than the women marrying (mostly because they used the Christian bible to ordain their marriage) were the protestors in the background dragging the name of Jesus through the mud because of this.

[Aussie3rddayfan]

Yes, the ordained lesbian ministers on the new Amazing Race really rub me the wrong way. I love the show, but it seems the token gays are increasing each new season. :rolleyes: :mad:

[Evanescence]

Yes, the ordained lesbian ministers on the new Amazing Race really rub me the wrong way. I love the show, but it seems the token gays are increasing each new season. :rolleyes: :mad:

Nice pun... :cool:

[lilmikey]

the answer is for the church to clean up her own backyard before she goes knocking on the world's door.

you are absolutly right

[Jesuslove]

Well, just a thought: Many, many previously divorced people made their decisions before their decisions to follow Christ, and I doubt many of those "marriages" were ordained by God nor were they "joined together by Him." So, I don't see why a church would have trouble marrying divorced people whose divorces - & all the other bad choices they made - were washed in the blood, just like they would marry anyone else. Also, it's not like one "practices divorce" like they do homosexuality (except for maybe someone like Elizabeth Taylor ;) ). And no, we don't turn out compulsive liars, cheats, etc., but if their sin was easier to detect, we probably would and (do on rare occasion when someone blatantly sins without regard to the body of Christ).

By the way, no one should be "banned" from coming to Christ or the church. We cannot come to Christ as a "non-sinner." We do have the right as the body of Christ to proclaim His Word - speaking the truth in love.

Feel free to poke holes...:P


You are right, no one practices divorce like they "practice" homosexuality. However, living a lifestyle (divorce/remarriage) is a choice. Sure, we all make decisions that are bad. I just see divorce/remarriage as no different a lifestyle than being homosexual. I don't understand how someone can say one is a sin, but the other isn't, when the Bible is clear. I personally choose not to judge either. I will leave the judgement to God.