Anyone want to read Imitation of Christ with me?

[Jason]

I want to reread Imitation of Christ. Does anyone want to read it with me and discuss?

[Salome]

I'd love to read that book. I'm not much of an intellectual discusser, but I love to read!! :P When did you want to start? I'll need to order the book.

[Jason]

I'd love to read that book. I'm not much of an intellectual discusser, but I love to read!! :P When did you want to start? I'll need to order the book.

Whenever you're ready. I already have the book.

[Salome]

Okee Dokee. I have to place an order from Amazon in the next day or two so I'll order it then. I'll let you know when I have it.

[Jason]

Okee Dokee. I have to place an order from Amazon in the next day or two so I'll order it then. I'll let you know when I have it.

Cool.

[mindyhere]

Jason - what's it about?

[Howlin' Wolf]

imitating Christ

[Jason]

Jason - what's it about?

imitating Christ

What Jason said.

From Wikipedia:

The Imitation of Christ (or De imitatione Christi), by Thomas à Kempis, is a widely read Christian spiritual book. It was first published anonymously, in Latin, ca. 1418; several other authors have been proposed, but Kempis' authorship is now generally accepted.

Imitation of Christ is a writing of the mysticist German-Dutch school of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries and is widely considered one of the greatest manuals of devotion in Christianity. Protestants and Roman Catholics alike join in giving it praise. The Jesuits give it an official place among their "exercises". John Wesley and John Newton listed it among the works that influenced them at their conversion. General Gordon carried it with him to the battlefield

and ...


The work is a manual of devotion intended to assist the soul with its pursuit of holiness and communion with God. Its sentences are statements, not arguments, and are pitched in the highest key of Christian experience. It was meant for monastics and ascetics. Behind and within all its reflections runs the counsel of self-renunciation.

The life of Christ is presented as the highest study possible to a mortal, as Jesus' teachings far excel all the teachings of the saints. The book gives counsel to read the scriptures, statements about the uses of adversity, advice for submission to authority, warnings against temptation and how to resist it, reflections about death and the judgment, meditations upon the oblation of Christ, and admonitions to flee the vanities of the world.

It is supposedly the most-widely read Christian book after the Bible.

[Marmoo68]

It is supposedly the most-widely read Christin book after the Bible.

Really, I thought that "Pilgrims Progress" was the most read book after the Bible. That is what I had heard anyway. Sounds like this other book would be interesting too. :D

[Jason]

Really, I thought that "Pilgrims Progress" was the most read book after the Bible. That is what I had heard anyway. Sounds like this other book would be interesting too. :D

Since Imitation of Christ is much older, I think it had a head start.

[Marmoo68]

Since Imitation of Christ is much older, I think it had a head start.

I guess you are right! As usual!! :P

[mindyhere]

What Jason said.

Imitation of Christ is a writing of the mysticist German-Dutch school of the fourteenth and fifteenth centuries and is widely considered one of the greatest manuals of devotion in Christianity. Protestants and Roman Catholics alike join in giving it praise. The Jesuits give it an official place among their "exercises". John Wesley and John Newton listed it among the works that influenced them at their conversion. General Gordon carried it with him to the battlefield[/I]

The work is a manual of devotion intended to assist the soul with its pursuit of holiness and communion with God. Its sentences are statements, not arguments, and are pitched in the highest key of Christian experience. It was meant for monastics and ascetics. Behind and within all its reflections runs the counsel of self-renunciation.

The life of Christ is presented as the highest study possible to a mortal, as Jesus' teachings far excel all the teachings of the saints. The book gives counsel to read the scriptures, statements about the uses of adversity, advice for submission to authority, warnings against temptation and how to resist it, reflections about death and the judgment, meditations upon the oblation of Christ, and admonitions to flee the vanities of the world.

It is supposedly the most-widely read Christian book after the Bible.

Those were the details I was looking for. I suppose I could have gone and looked it up myself, but that would have taken a little effort, ya know?

:D

[Salome]

HEY!! I received the book in the mail a couple of days ago. I'm not quite ready to start chapter one because I'm in the middle of reading all the pages before the book actually starts including: About the vintage Spiritual Classics, Preface to the Vintage Spiritual Classics Edition, the Introduction, and the Chronology of Thomas a Kempis. Through everything I've read so far I cannot wait to start this book. I'm so glad you mentioned this Jason!! I'll keep you posted.

[Jason]

HEY!! I received the book in the mail a couple of days ago. I'm not quite ready to start chapter one because I'm in the middle of reading all the pages before the book actually starts including: About the vintage Spiritual Classics, Preface to the Vintage Spiritual Classics Edition, the Introduction, and the Chronology of Thomas a Kempis. Through everything I've read so far I cannot wait to start this book. I'm so glad you mentioned this Jason!! I'll keep you posted.

Cool.

[Mandy Robbins]

Is this it?
http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Books/Kempis/Imitation_Jesus_Christ.ht m

[Jason]

Is this it?
http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/Books/Kempis/Imitation_Jesus_Christ.ht m

Yes. Want to read it with us?

[Mandy Robbins]

I would love to! Thanks!

[Jason]

Cool.

[Mandy Robbins]

I'm liking it.

[Salome]

okee dokee. Mandy's ready, and I'm ready now Jason. Are we discussing chapter by chapter, or how did you want to do this? Let me know.

[Jason]

Ladies, I haven't forgotten this. My copy is on my Dell which broke down on the Sunday before Memorial Day. I may get it back this weekend.

I'm not sure what the best way to discuss the book is. Thoughts?

[blue eyed merle]

May I join? When will you all be starting this? I need to run to Family Christian Bookstore and get a copy...I have a coupon!

After this book would anyone be interesting in reading Dietrich Bonhoeffer’s The Cost Of Discipleship (1948 in English). I’ve never read anything by him, but I am interested in learning more about him because my pastor quotes him quite often. Most people I know here in the non-cyber world prefer fiction. I like fiction, but I am in place in my life where I am thirsting for spiritual knowledge...

About this book--

(from Wikipedia) Bonhoeffer's most widely read book begins, "Cheap grace is the mortal enemy of our church. Our struggle today is for costly grace." That was a sharp warning to his own church, which was engaged in bitter conflict with the official nazified state church, The book was first published in 1937 as Nachfolge (Discipleship). It soon became a classic exposition of what it means to follow Christ in a modern world beset by a dangerous and criminal government. At its center stands an interpretation of the “Sermon on the Mount", what Jesus demanded of his followers and how the life of discipleship is to be continued in all ages of the post- resurrection church.

[Jason]

Regarding starting, as soon as you can get the book because the rest of us have it.

I'd like to read Bonhoeffer's book after it.

[blue eyed merle]

Great!

I'll go to FCBS tomorrow and if they don't have it, I try Borders and if they don't have it I'll try Barnes & Noble and if they don't have it, I will cry...

[Jason]

Great!

I'll go to FCBS tomorrow and if they don't have it, I try Borders and if they don't have it I'll try Barnes & Noble and if they don't have it, I will cry...

Can I cry too? Real men cry, ya know?

[blue eyed merle]

Can I cry too? Real men cry, ya know?

go for it!

[Jason]

go for it!

Only if you can't get the book.

[blue eyed merle]

ooooooooooohhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Mandy Robbins]

There is a free E-book of it here
http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/...s_Christ.ht m

[Jason]

Mandy, any suggestions on how to discuss it? The chapters are so short.

[Mandy Robbins]

I don't know much about discussions. This is my first.

Maybe do sections of 3 to 5 at a time. But I would just read and try to figure out how to implement that into my life. For me, I just kept reading and reading. Evidently, there's a lot I need to put into action.

But maybe a "What did you get from this secton?" followed by "what are you going to do with that information?"

[Jason]

Sounds good.

[Mandy Robbins]

Thank you for involving me. It was very sweet of you. You're very good to reach out to people. I think in todays world especially, people need that.

[Jason]

Yes, we do need people reaching out to others. So many people have left churches because no one reached out to them.

[blue eyed merle]

Only if you can't get the book.

I got the book... no tears... besides... there's no crying in book club

There is a free E-book of it here
http://www.theworkofgod.org/Library/...s_Christ.ht m

Thanks Mandy, but I already got it at FCBS...got to use my coupon ;)

Thank you for involving me. It was very sweet of you. You're very good to reach out to people. I think in todays world especially, people need that.

AMEN! Pardon my enthusiasm.
Yes, thanks Jason! I've read the preface and I cannot wait to read the rest. How far along are y'all? I'll catch up as fast as I can.

[Jason]

Is everyone cool with reading these first five sections by Friday:

1 Imitating Christ and Despising All Vanities on Earth
2 Having A Humble Opinion of Self
3 The Doctrine of Truth
4 Prudence in Action
5 Reading the Holy Scripture

And then we can discuss?

After that we can decide if it's too much or too little to read.

[Salome]

okee dokee

[blue eyed merle]

works for me

[blue eyed merle]

How does it work? This is all new to me...

I'll give my favorite sentence from the first five "chapters"...

From Chapter 1: "I would rather feel contrition than know how to define it."

My response: Not that we should live out our lives based on "feelings", but should we not want our spirit to ache when we have sinned? For when we do, especially when we knowingly rebel or disobey, should not the ache of our spirit be the indicator that we are not right with God?

Sin, is the nature of human nature, and we will never arrive at perfection. It just seems like sins of the flesh are easier to identify and take steps to correct. It's the sins of the spirit...pride, jealousy, lust, hate, etc that seem to slip under the radar for we are "being" good in our actions.

My pastor said this about himself recently, "Lord it is hard to be humble, when nobody notices." I laughed, for I too, struggle with pride. It is comforting to know my pastor is human. :)

[Salome]

"Whoever follows me will not walk in darkness," says the Lord.

When I read that and reread that, I can't explain the encouragement and peace it gave to me.

John 8:12 Then Jesus spoke to them again, saying, "I am the light of the world. He who follows Me shall not walk in darkness, but have the light of life."

I love to read. I love to collect books. But with the internet and all that I think I should know, I needed to read : in Chapter 1 about experiencing repentence vs. being able to define it; in Chapter 2 curbing the undue desire of knowledge "for in it you will find many many distractions and much delusion"; in Chapter 3 how my ignorance of sooooo many things "obscure and recondite" will not be in question on Judgment Day.

"Certainly, when Judgment Day comes we shall not be asked what books we have read, but what deeds we have done; we shall not be asked how well we have debated, but how devoutly we have lived"

I LOVE THIS QUOTE: "Because many people spend more time and effort in becoming educated than in living properly, it happens that many, therefore, go astray and bear little or no fruit".

I was reflecting on my own life this past week and how this summer, with it's never ending scheduling has just happened to me. I write down where I need to go and I go. I'm letting the busyness carry me along and I realized I need to be more purposeful. What are the deeds I am doing, need to do? And then I read in Chapter 3 "The good and devout person first inwardly plans the works that he will outwardly do, and does not allow himself to be drawn by any unworthy inclination, but on the contrary, he accomplishes these works in accordance with the dictates of right reason. No one undergoes a stronger struggle than the man who tried to subdue himself. This should be our chief employment: Strive to overcome ourselves and gain such a mastery that we daily grow stronger and better"

This will be my prayer.

[Salome]

Blue Eyed Merle!! How funny we were both "discussing" at the same time and knew it not. :D

We both picked the same passage as a favorite from Chapter 1. Interesting wording in our different "versions". Yours "feel contrition" mine "experience repentance in my soul". Kind of like Talk the Talk vs. Walk the Walk. Always looking in our lives for what will really matter on Judgment Day. And that's hard.

[blue eyed merle]

No one undergoes a stronger struggle than the man who tried to subdue himself. This should be our chief employment: Strive to overcome ourselves and gain such a mastery that we daily grow stronger and better"

In response to a question/conversation recently, I told an atheist/agnostic friend it would be so much easier not to be a Christian.

She equated it to guilt.

I said it is not guilt why I try to do my best in all things and try to do the right thing in my life. Jesus died on the cross for my sins. It's gratitude for His sacrifice that compels me to strive for a life pleasing to God. Sure, I still sin and make messes of things and don't get it right all the time, but what matters to God is that I try. He sees my heart and knows the raw materials I am working with in myself.

I forget what she said in response, it was not edifying. :rolleyes:

What kills me about this friend is I do not bring up religion/Christianity out of respect for her views. When it comes up, she is the one who brings it up then gets angry at my responses.

Blue Eyed Merle!! How funny we were both "discussing" at the same time and knew it not. :D

I know! :D

We both picked the same passage as a favorite from Chapter 1. Interesting wording in our different "versions". Yours "feel contrition" mine "experience repentance in my soul".

And I was writing a response to your response and then I got side tracked and then got kicked off my computer and come back and saw this response. Cracked me up! For how freaky is this? My conversation with my atheist/agnostic friend and why strive to live a life pleasing to God... I believe I will take this as confirmation from God, that my friend, even though she digs at me for being a Christian cannot stop herself from inquiring about it... I hope that is not pride... Does that sound like pride?

[Salome]

No, that does not sound like pride to me.

It sounds like your friend is searching spiritually. And maybe her anger comes from knowing or suspecting that what you say might be the Truth.

I read somewhere that if there was no God, there would be no atheists. haha!! :P

[blue eyed merle]

It sounds like your friend is searching spiritually. And maybe her anger comes from knowing or suspecting that what you say might be the Truth.


I had not thought of this. It was just confusing to me. Thanks.


I read somewhere that if there was no God, there would be no atheists. haha!! :P


Oh my gosh, I LOVE that! Maybe I can use this pearl of wisdom when I need to defend my faith when she attacks MY decision to choose God over...nothing. Let's see God or nothing? Wow... that's stumper... :rolleyes:

Of course, this conversation about the atheist/agnostic goes along with the book. In all her reading and searching she is now "enlightened" and I'm a simpleton for believing the way I do. I am fine with this, for according to Kempis, "...a humble rustic who serves God is better than a proud intellectual who neglects his soul to study the course of the stars." (from chapter 2)

This, however, does not fill me with joy, for my friend, as enlightened as she is, walks in darkness, which truly grieves me. She thinks the Bible is a work of fiction. If we cannot agree that the Bible is not fiction, then we have no basis on which to build a meaningful conversation about life, living and the afterlife. I live my life using Biblical principles. She lives her life by whatever ideas she dictates for herself, which by the way, are constantly in flux for they appear to be based on whatever theory or trend is currently in fashion.

[blue eyed merle]

Has anyone read past the first five chapters or sections? Because, I know you may find this extremely hard to believe, but I just got to say something... this book is very thought-provoking, yet, I'll be honest... a little irritating at times (has Thomas read any of Paul's epistles?) ;) :)

[Jason]

I'll comment on the first five sections later tonight. And how about we read the next five by this Friday (they're short)?

[Jason]

In the first section, I was struck by: "What good does it do to speak learnedly about the Trinity if, lacking humility, you displease the Trinity? Indeed it is not learning that makes a man holy and just, but a virtuous life makes him pleasing to God."

I see this so often in the Word forum here (I'm pointing fingers at myself also). People will argue a theological point while slamming their brother. In college, I was set on reading through the New Testament as fast as I could. A Campus Crusade staffer said, "Try reading less, but applying more.


In the second section, I struggled because I do deal with pride. As an author and speaker, I've desired for many to know my name. Of course, to love is more important.


In the third section, we read: "He who does God’s will and renounces his own is truly very learned." This would be very powerful if actually done.


In the fourth section, Kempis states: "For very often, sad to say, we are so weak that we believe and speak evil of others rather than good." Wow. How true. Whereas love "thinks no evil" (1 Cor. 13:5).


In the fifth section, we read, "If you would profit from it, therefore, read with humility, simplicity, and faith, and never seek a reputation for being learned." Seems like God has been trying to tell me this for nineteen years.

[Salome]

Has anyone read past the first five chapters or sections? Because, I know you may find this extremely hard to believe, but I just got to say something... this book is very thought-provoking, yet, I'll be honest... a little irritating at times (has Thomas read any of Paul's epistles?) ;) :)

What do you mean specifically? I'm planning on reading the next 5 chapters by the weekend.

There have been a lot of times here on the boards that I've been turned off by people's attitudes. Where is the ability to discuss vs. argue? To read someone's position and if you disagree to be able to say, "My opinion is" or "This is what I believe ...... " and then leave it at that, unless someone asks you a question specifically, and let the readers base their own conclusions on the information given.

Or maybe the word "believe" is tricky for christians.

I'm left with the impression that too many like to hear themselves speak, and desire to have the last word. And kindness and respect is checked at the door.

Although I will readily admit I'm non-confrontational myself.

The first thing I thought of when I read what the Campus Crusade staffer said to you Jason was what Kempis said in Chapter 5 "Our curiosity proves a hinderance to us, for while reading the Scriptures we sometimes want to stop to debate and discuss, when we should simply read on". Reading less seemed odd. However I think maybe what he was trying to say that you need to not only read, but also apply.

[Jason]

The first thing I thought of when I read what the Campus Crusade staffer said to you Jason was what Kempis said in Chapter 5 "Our curiosity proves a hinderance to us, for while reading the Scriptures we sometimes want to stop to debate and discuss, when we should simply read on". Reading less seemed odd. However I think maybe what he was trying to say that you need to not only read, but also apply.

We were having a "read the NT in 3 months" thing with a poster marking our progress. I liked being in the lead, which was really unimportant. If I spent more time applying than rushing my reading, I would've been better off.

[Salome]

hahaha!! That sounds like good material for the Stuff Christians Like blog!! :D

[Jason]

hahaha!! That sounds like good material for the Stuff Christians Like blog!! :D

Yes it does.

[blue eyed merle]

Has anyone read past the first five chapters or sections? Because, I know you may find this extremely hard to believe, but I just got to say something... this book is very thought-provoking, yet, I'll be honest... a little irritating at times (has Thomas read any of Paul's epistles?) ;) :)

What do you mean specifically? I'm planning on reading the next 5 chapters by the weekend.

I feel as though I am trapped in IFONLYVILLE. All of what Thomas is saying would be wonderful yes, but I was born a sinner, "Stone cold dead as I stepped out of the womb". I understand these are principles and traits to be desired, but can Perfection be obtained in this lifetime?

Specifically, in chapter 11: "Why were some of the saints so perfect and so given to contemplation? Because they tried to mortify entirely in themselves all earthly desires, and thus they were able to attach themselves to God with all their heart, and freely to concentrate their innermost thoughts."

Who is he talking about? If perfection could be reached in this realm by any one person, then there was no reason for the crucifixion. I suppose irritated is a bit of a strong word, but who are these perfect saints? Maybe puzzled is a better word. I am puzzled by some of these writings. :) ;)

adding a thought: I need to go back and reread these chapters and then continue with the next five. When I read this chapter, I fear I may have closed my mind to everything for I sensed: legalism ...of which I lack patience. That may not be what he is talking about, but I still question who is Thomas talking about? The perfect saints? Still confused, but will read on with the knowledge that this writing is not the Gospel, but an interpretation and as we know, there are very different views and interpretations of The Bible.

[blue eyed merle]

In the first section, I was struck by: "What good does it do to speak learnedly about the Trinity if, lacking humility, you displease the Trinity? Indeed it is not learning that makes a man holy and just, but a virtuous life makes him pleasing to God."

I see this so often in the Word forum here (I'm pointing fingers at myself also). People will argue a theological point while slamming their brother. In college, I was set on reading through the New Testament as fast as I could. A Campus Crusade staffer said, "Try reading less, but applying more.


In the second section, I struggled because I do deal with pride. As an author and speaker, I've desired for many to know my name. Of course, to love is more important.


Application is where I struggle and lose spiritual skirmishes and fall at the base of the cross clinging for mercy. Romans 7:14-25. Why do I do what I do not want to do? God knows the raw materials I am working with and He also knows my struggle. Yet, I take hold of the promise in Philippians 2:12-13 "...continue to work out your salvation with fear and trembling for it is God who works in you to will and to act according to his good purpose." Not that I take this as license to sin, but to continue to try and do my best from a heart of gratitude.

Pride, I hear ya brother! My thorn is pride. As a writer, it is very hard to find the balance between humility and an honest seeking of opinion on a piece of work. I want feedback, but where is the line between accepting praise for a work created and humbling oneself to not think too highly of ones skills and talents, when those very skills and talents are being praised? It's a sticky wicket especially when the piece is Christian/Spiritual in nature. Glory to God is the target, yet, I want to know if it was a good job or not. Sharpening skills and honing a craft are necessary for continued growth in any art form. Where is the line between pride of workmanship and pride of ownership? (Ownership is God for He gave me my talents and skills.) Maybe I answered my own question. I don't know... for this very situation happened today and I hope I handled it correctly.

[Salome]

Chapter 6: Disordered Affections. I read it and laughed and thought "uh-huh" and came to the conclusion that I am definitely NOT totally dead to myself.

Chapter 7: "Do not rely on yourself, but place your trust in God. Do whatever lies in your power and God will assist your good intentions". How much of God's assistance doesn't get used because we don't see the possibility so do nothing?

I know I'm blessed beyond measure in the love God has surrounded me with family and friends, and with the material comforts I have. And although I believe He enjoys giving me these things, He wants me to know above all that I already have the most, the best there is to have with Him. "but boast in God, the giver of all good things, who desires, above all, to bestow Himself on you." And I find it most comforting that I can be all me with God because He knows what is in my heart.

Chapter 8: Guarding Against too much Familiarity -- what tha? I'm guessing he's talking about guarding your heart with this one? As in with new relationships, or friends who are not christians? Not family and friends.

Chapter 9: Obedience and Submission "But if God dwells among us then we must sometimes relinquish our own opinion for the sake of peace. Who is so wise as to be able to know all things?" Being married for almost 17 years, well I've got this one down. :D Seriously, being a peace maker is part of my character, so I don't have a hard time doing this. Sometimes. He says sometimes, right??:cool:

Chapter 10: Guarding Against Unnecessary Speech. Again I'm left thinking What tha? Although I do admit that making a long story even longer comes naturally to me, ahem, I'm thinking this might have to do more with who Thomas was writing for -- his fellow monks. I have a hard time reconciling this chapter and my life. He does include Ephesians 4:29 "Let no corrupt word proceed out of your mouth, but what is good for necessary edification, that it may impart grace to the hearers." And while I agree that watching my tongue is of utmost importance, I'm left thinking he doesn't understand what it takes to grow a relationship with someone. Alot of times it is the sharing of one's heart, the little and the big, or sharing the parts of your day, joking around, that grow bonds. I was glad this paragraph was included in the introduction. I think it sheds some light: "And despite its frequent advice to avoid special friendships, the Imitation's real aim is to teach us to live well with others. 'If your heart is right, then every creature is a mirror of life to you and a book of holy learning.' We should remember that Jesus spent much time with his friends. We do not live in monasteries under strict rules and the obedience of a superior, yet regular occupations and family life may offer the same difficulties and opportunities that the monastic community did. We may well need to turn to family, friends and co-workers for the lessons in objective self-understanding the Imitation urges, confident that 'God has willed that we learn to bear one another's burdens.' "

[blue eyed merle]

OOPS! I read too far before, but, I have re-read and re-read 6-10. What I am reading leaves my brain in a philosophical quagmire at times. Not helping is my belief that my version of this book must be for the Uberspiritual... which, I’ll be honest, I am not. God’s grace is sufficient for me, for I am but a sinner, pleading for mercy.

Chapter 6 Unbridled Affections. (Sounds so... wicked ...) -- “True peace of heart, then, is found in resisting passions, not in satisfying them.” First, is he referring to um...um...um... well, you know or all passions? Since he took up residence in a monastery, I am not quite sure, so I took it to mean all passions. Are we not created in the image of God? God is a passionate entity and so would we not have passion instilled in us as beings created by God? To abandon and/or condemn all passions would be counterintuitive to the spiritual man/woman...would it not? What about David? Wow... The Psalms sum up my point on David, who we know was a man seeking after God’s own heart. If we are truly seeking God’s heart, we would need to understand His character and nature. Should we deny our passions when God is the one who gave them to us in the first place? I understand we should live above the glandular level, but moderation and context are not even brought into the discussion in this chapter.

Chapter 7 Avoiding False Hope and Pride -- “Do not take pride in your talent or ability, lest you displease God, to Whom belongs all the natural gifts you have.” This is truly a stumbling block and have mentioned it before. Where is the line between pride in craftsmanship and pride of ownership? Is there a line?

Chapter 8 Shunning Over-Familiarity -- “Be not be intimate with any woman, but generally commend all good women to God. Seek only the intimacy of God and of His angels, and avoid the notice of men.” At first blush, I thought this meant be a wallflower! Maybe he means seek the intimacy of God and his angels and avoid the notice of people. But if we are to let the love of Christ shine through us, how are we to avoid the notice of people if our intention is to be ready to give an answer for the hope that we have?

Chapter 9. Obedience and Subjection. -- “Many live in obedience more from necessity than from love.” If we love God, should be not be obedient because we love? The Bible is a love story. If we love God, we should consider our actions and if they either reflect God’s character or sully His image. In a way, we are God’s PR people.

My favorite quote from this chapter: “Dreams of happiness expected from change and different places have deceived many.” Or in other words (from a pastor) “No matter where you go, there you are.” and “The grass is always greener where you water it.”

Chapter 10 Avoiding Idle Talk -- In the year 2008, now that we know the earth is not flat and all, discussion of worldly affairs is a vital. However, Thomas is right when he indicates it can quickly ensnare. True enough, but we must discuss it, for if we fail to learn from history we are doomed to repeat it. As Christians we need to be prepared for what is coming, however, we cannot live our lives in fear, tossed about by our emotions, the victims of the sensationalism of news events. We must continue to live in faith and continue to do the right thing, despite what is going on in the world around us. God is in control.

[blue eyed merle]

I was glad this paragraph was included in the introduction. I think it sheds some light: "And despite its frequent advice to avoid special friendships, the Imitation's real aim is to teach us to live well with others. 'If your heart is right, then every creature is a mirror of life to you and a book of holy learning.' We should remember that Jesus spent much time with his friends. We do not live in monasteries under strict rules and the obedience of a superior, yet regular occupations and family life may offer the same difficulties and opportunities that the monastic community did. We may well need to turn to family, friends and co-workers for the lessons in objective self-understanding the Imitation urges, confident that 'God has willed that we learn to bear one another's burdens.' "

My version does not include this paragraph, thanks for putting it out here on the thread.

This is weird, your post I am quoting is your 551 post. This is my 115 post. (5+5+1=11 & 1+1+5=7) Hmm... 11 and 7. 11 + 7 = 18. What does 18 signify? 18 days until the new Third Day CD hits the marketplace! Counting today as one, it is eighteen days away. Weird... or maybe I am just weird. :)

BTW, I am not really serious about this kind of stuff, but I did notice the post numbers and thought it was weird... not numerology weird, just normal weird. :cool:

[Salome]

You're freakin' me out!! :eek:


Not really. :D

[blue eyed merle]

You're freakin' me out!! :eek:


Not really. :D

Whew! :)

[blue eyed merle]

Is anyone still reading this book? I have prayed about my antagonistic and philosophical issues with this book. It is tough for me to stop being merlastotle.

I found chapter 12, The Value of Adversity, especially helpful in my spiritual journey. The chapter brought into focus troubling issues regarding these here message boards. So where does the adversity begin? In my head. Whispers from the past, a sort of haunting. Dr. Phil calls them the tapes we play in our heads and I understand from where the torment comes and how it is still effective as an adult. I will be honest, every time I post anything on these message boards, I am deluged with spiritual torment. It does not matter what I say or where I say it. My spiritual journey crossed the message boards and I have sought God's answer to the spiritual warfare that began the moment I first posted back in November.

I have not gotten a clear cut answer to my most burning question: Is God allowing the torment to get me to stop coming to the message boards or is he allowing it to strengthen my faith in Him? Or both?

I have no clear cut answer. Just when I think I know, I find that I really do not know. I guess this is part of the journey and will trust He will reveal his answer in due time...or maybe never.

[Jason]

I haven't forgotten you, ladies. I'll hopefully comment on sections 6-10 tonight or tomorrow. If I keep neglecting this, you may not want to read with me anymore.

[blue eyed merle]

I'm going to keep reading it to see how it ends... and to see if I will still have any hair left on my head... ;) :D :)

[Jason]

I'm going to keep reading it to see how it ends... and to see if I will still have any hair left on my head... ;) :D :)

Cool. I hope you'll still have hair left! :D

[blue eyed merle]

Cool. I hope you'll still have hair left! :D

me too!

[Jason]

me too!

Yeah, you look prettier with hair.

[Salome]

Well, I didn't know if you two had lost interest, so I kind of put it on hold, knowing that it's the kind of book that is easy to pick up, put down and pick back up again.

Soooo, I'll pick it back up again and comment when I'm done with the next section I'm on.

I love reading both your comments.

[Jason]

Cool!

[blue eyed merle]

I thought everyone had given up too!

[blue eyed merle]

Are we still reading this? I think we are up to 11-15?