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View Full Version : Why Ron Paul scares the GOP


WeaselInYerFoot
03-25-2008, 09:21 AM
an excellent article from Time (http://www.time.com/time/politics/article/0,8599,1724358,00.html) magazine:


There used to be an organization for people who believed in a truly limited government — limited taxes, limited spending, limited interference in individual lives and limited intervention in foreign affairs. That organization was known as the Republican Party. But the only one of those beliefs that still motivates the G.O.P. establishment is limited taxes. In 2008, people who still hold all of them joined the Ron Paul Revolution.


But now the revolution is ebbing. Congressman Paul's new campaign finance report shows that he's raised nearly $35 million, including more than any other Republican candidate in the fourth quarter of 2007, and he's inspired remarkable passion among the kind of diehards who hold up campaign signs on highway overpasses and post irate comments on obscure blogs. But the presidency isn't decided on YouTube or Technorati. Paul didn't win any Republican primaries, and he recently conceded that "victory in the conventional sense is not available."

Of course, nothing in Paul's world is ever done in the conventional sense, so he has refused to drop out of the race and endorse the presumptive G.O.P. nominee, Senator John McCain. Instead he argues that all Republicans should have "the right to vote for someone that stands for traditional Republican principles." And he's got a point.

The real significance of the Paul campaign is not the ubiquitous bumper stickers and lawn signs or the online fund-raising records ($6 million in one day, plus another $4 million, hilariously, on Guy Fawkes Day) but the mirror Paul held up to the modern Republican Party. When his fellow candidates denounced big government, Paul was there to remind them that President Bush and the G.O.P. Congress had shattered spending records and exploded the deficit. When they hailed freedom, Paul asked why they all supported the Patriot Act and other expansions of executive power. And when they called themselves conservatives, Paul asked what was so conservative about sending thousands of young Americans to try to transform the Middle East.

In some ways, Paul is a throwback to the frugal and isolationist wing of the old Republican Party, the fuddy-duddy GOP of Robert Taft and Calvin Coolidge. His fiscal policies evoke the idealistic Republican revolutionaries who seized control of Congress in 1994; he wants to abolish the IRS, the Departments of Homeland Security, Education and Energy, and most of the federal government. He refuses to vote for unbalanced budgets, and he has opposed spending taxpayer dollars on Congressional Medals of Honor, even for Rosa Parks or Pope John Paul II. Typically, his campaign has reported no debts, and still has more than $5 million in the bank. Meanwhile, Paul's foreign policies evoke candidate George W. Bush's call for a "humbler foreign policy" in 2000, although Paul goes much further; not only did he oppose U.S. involvement in Iraq, Kosovo and the war on drugs, he opposes U.S. involvement in the United Nations and NATO.

Under Bush's leadership, of course, the Republican Party has been anything but frugal and anything but isolationist. The congressional Republican revolutionaries seemed to lose their zeal for shrinking the federal government once they controlled it, which is one reason voters expelled them from power in 2006. And these days, it's usually Democrats who call for a humbler foreign policy. Paul's leave-us-alone libertarianism hasn't fit in with a party anxious to read our e-mail, improve our values, assert American power abroad and subsidize friendly industries at home. The party's recent mix of "national greatness" neoconservatives, evangelical theoconservatives and K Street careerists has had many goals, but leaving people alone hasn't been one of them. That's why Paul was the one getting booed at G.O.P. debates. And that's one reason why Paul's fervent followers were banned from the activist Republican website RedState.

In fairness, though, another reason RedState's directors got tired of the Paulistas was that so many of them seemed — what's the polite word? — nuts. Paul's supporters aren't all black-helicopter paranoiacs, but the black-helicopter paranoiacs sure do support Ron Paul. The controversy over a few racist articles in his old newsletters was probably overblown; there's no evidence that Paul himself was ever a racist. But he is an extremist — partly in the Barry Goldwater extremism-in-defense-of-liberty-is-no-vice sense of the word, but also in the wacky let's-relitigate-the-currency-debates-of-the-1820s sense of the word. The late William F. Buckley wanted conservatives to stand athwart history yelling stop; Paul seems to want to slam history into reverse. The guy genuinely wants to abolish the Federal Reserve and start circulating gold again.

Still, even if you set aside Paul's kookier ideas, there just doesn't seem to be a road to the White House for any candidate who opposes the war in Iraq as well as higher taxes, the war on drugs as well as higher spending, restrictions on privacy as well as restrictions on guns. That's a real "freedom agenda," a true assault on big government, and while it clearly spoke to some angry dudes with high-speed web connections and time on their hands, it's just as clearly not where America stands today. Paul didn't have a lot of company on the House floor when he rose recently to complain about government overreach in the investigation of the disgraced former New York governor Eliot Spitzer, who resigned after revelations that he had been a customer of a high-end prostitution ring.

But even if Paul's ideological purity is never going to get him to the White House, it does help illuminate the impurities — and sometimes the hypocrisies — of today's Republicans, just as Ralph Nader can do for the Democrats. The G.O.P. candidates all claimed to defend taxpayers, but Paul was the only one who refused to accept a taxpayer-funded pension or taxpayer-funded junkets. The candidates all talked about shrinking big government, but Paul was the only one who included the Pentagon and NSA wiretaps and petroleum subsidies in his definition. Bush's approval ratings have been abysmal for years, but Paul was the only Republican who really campaigned for change.

And in doing so Paul illustrated what was so striking about the Republican race. The leading candidates had all strayed from Bush and current orthodoxy in the past — Rudy Giuliani on abortion and gay rights, John McCain on tax cuts, torture, health care and campaign finance, Mitt Romney on just about everything. But while Paul was getting attacked every time he called for a new direction, the rest spent the primaries minimizing and renouncing their previous departures, implicitly promising four more years of Bushism. McCain is lucky he has some time to craft a new message, because that's not where America stands today, either.

Les_Is_More
03-25-2008, 12:36 PM
I'm definetly voting for Ron Paul over Juan McCain in Oregon's primary. The GOP party is so flaky these days. Ron Paul was the only canidate who really understands what it means to be a Republican.

Valpo
03-25-2008, 01:41 PM
I've voted and will vote for Juan McCain proudly. BTW Flakester, I think McAmnesty is more appropriate than slighting the oh so many people named Juan because you don't like McCain's now transformed immigration policy.

Post script to the original post: Ron Paul does not scare this proud GOP member at all, I just don't agree with him. Seems like quite the opposite of a scary man.

Evanescence
03-25-2008, 05:30 PM
With the exception of RON PAUL, NONE of the candidates can be trusted...and none of them want to protect the Constitution and the USAs sovereignty. You can't be in bed with Globalists, big oil, big bankers, big business, big media and be for the people.....for the common man. It is an impossibility and an oxy-moron...

They are all in the Globalist CFR- Council on Foreign Relations, which openly wants to strip our soverignty, create a union with Canada and Mexico, the NAU...and the final goal...a one world government.

These candidates...with the exception of RP,...no matter how they sell themselves, are an enemy to the USA....

Gandalf
04-03-2008, 08:58 PM
The GOP may ridicule Ron Paul as a goofy conspiracy theorist, but I've yet to meet a Republican who's scared of him.

Musicdude
04-06-2008, 01:47 AM
If he's still in it when the time comes, he's got my vote.

Paul = Conservative
McCain= Liberal
Clinton = Communist
Obama = Communist

Gandalf
04-06-2008, 09:24 AM
Correction: Paul = Libertarian

Valpo
04-06-2008, 10:21 AM
As long as we're correcting...McCain does not equal liberal, moderate conservative is more the phrase/word.

Les_Is_More
04-06-2008, 12:02 PM
McCain = Republicrat ;)

Musicdude
04-06-2008, 01:23 PM
As long as we're correcting...McCain does not equal liberal, moderate conservative is more the phrase/word.

That's like saying the Beatles were a moderate death metal band.

Gandalf
04-06-2008, 02:37 PM
That's like saying the Beatles were a moderate death metal band.
Not really. McCain is liberal on the size of government and economic policies and buys into the Kyoto nonsense, but is conservative on many other issues. He's not nearly as conservative as I would prefer, but he's not nearly as liberal as the Democrats in the race either.

WeaselInYerFoot
04-08-2008, 04:22 AM
It's not the republicans that are scared of RP. It's the GOP. A good example would be what recently happened in St. Charles county with the delegates. Will have to link as I'm short on time.

Whether McCain is conservative enough or not, it doesn't matter. He's another Bush with a better biography. The country doesn't need a good healthy dose of more of the same. But it doesn't need a good healthy dose of socialism either. Choices....

Gandalf
04-08-2008, 04:55 AM
It's not the republicans that are scared of RP. It's the GOP.
:confused: The GOP is a nickname for the Republican Party.

WeaselInYerFoot
04-08-2008, 05:59 AM
:confused: The GOP is a nickname for the Republican Party.

haha, I know I know. The "Gallant Old Party". I didn't mean that every republican is scared of him. But that the party in general, those who run it, and those who make the decisions. The RNC and some RSC's to be specific.

Found a link (http://stcharlesjournal.stltoday .com/articles/2008/03/18/news/doc47e01f744db32094092795 .txt) concerning my previous post.

Gandalf
04-08-2008, 09:11 AM
I don't think he scares the party leadership in the least. I think he's widely viewed as a nutty conspiracy theorist and ignored. Rush Limbaugh will probably have a bigger impact on the Democratic Convention than Ron Paul does on the Republican one.

WeaselInYerFoot
04-08-2008, 10:47 AM
I think he's widely viewed as a nutty conspiracy theorist and ignored.

I'm not exactly sure where you're getting this. Most of what he's said is simple logic and his claims on NAFTA are based on knowledge that is pretty common within the congress.



Rush Limbaugh will probably have a bigger impact on the Democratic Convention than Ron Paul does on the Republican one.


But I'm not just talking about the convention here (though if you're interested this same thing has happened in Texas, Min. and Washington). There are a large number of brand new congress runners that are running based off of Ron Paul's view. Of course his views are anything but new. They're very much what the Republican Party used to be, in the Goldwater days. But that past is so foreign to most that they can't even conceive the fact that the party was at some point THAT different from what it is now. It used to be very similar to what the libertarian party is now (with the exception of a few points). But most people don't study their history, consequently. As Muggeridge used to say "New news is just old news happening to new people".

Gandalf
04-08-2008, 01:39 PM
I'm not exactly sure where you're getting this. Most of what he's said is simple logic and his claims on NAFTA are based on knowledge that is pretty common within the congress.
I didn't say that his views are irrational, but that he comes across as a nut.

As for his positions, he's a straight-up libertarian. That's certainly closer to Republican than Democratic, but it doesn't mean he's right about everything or that he agrees with his current party on everything. Opposing free trade agreements betrays a lack of understanding of global economics, and isolationism seems ill-advised given the current state of affairs, and doesn't really line up with Republican policies.

WeaselInYerFoot
04-08-2008, 06:42 PM
I didn't say that his views are irrational, but that he comes across as a nut.

As for his positions, he's a straight-up libertarian. That's certainly closer to Republican than Democratic, but it doesn't mean he's right about everything or that he agrees with his current party on everything. Opposing free trade agreements betrays a lack of understanding of global economics, and isolationism seems ill-advised given the current state of affairs, and doesn't really line up with Republican policies.

I can understand how some people will quickly line him up with the likes of Alex Jones. Mostly because some of his supporters are crazy. I can also understand how others can quickly dismiss his views. Your previous post being an example.

He's not straight up libertarian. For example, he's not pro-choice. He's republican, even more republican than some of the republicans in office. When the republican party began straying away from some (not all) of their conservative principals, a group of them splintered and formed the libertarian party. Nixon's policies were the last straw for these people and so they moved on immediately forming the party in Colorado Springs. The libertarian party has also changed some since then. And although he tried to run on a libertarian ticket 20 years ago, he did so with the intentions carrying conservative principals to the oval office. The same conservative principals that the republican party used to have.

As far as free trade goes, RP merely disagrees with it because it gives CAFTA, (an international body), power that was constitutionally given to congress in the first place. You can read more on it here (http://www.lewrockwell.com/paul/paul254.html). I'm curious as to why (if you do) you believe CAFTA would be the best way to handle international trade. The guy knows more about economics than all the candidates put together. He's written a book about Austrian Economics and is a member of the Joint Economic Committee during which hearings, he frequently melts Bernanke's face. Instead, we now have a projected nominee who doesn't even know what the Plunge Protection Team (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oUZwL9GPcNw) is (but certainly thought it needed more sunshine). He's been warning about our recent economic problems for years (http://emac.blogs.foxbusiness.co m/2008/03/26/time-to-listen-to-ron-paul/).

And lastly, unless the meaning of the term has changed in recent months, Ron Paul is not even close to being an isolationist. He merely thinks we shouldn't get so deeply involved in the affairs of other countries, to the degree we have in the Middle East.