I'll vote democrat..

[rossid]

...when they stop supporting the killing of innocent babies. There, I've said it, call me a one issue voter if it makes you feel good. :cool:

Overturn Roe v. Wade at the Supreme Court and let the states decide if abortion should be illegal. If women then choose to get an illegal abortion and are harmed my conscience will still be clear. God told me abortion is wrong and that it is my duty to vote for someone who is not pro-abortion. :)

[mat1583]

...when they stop supporting the killing of innocent babies. There, I've said it, call me a one issue voter if it makes you feel good. :cool:

Overturn Roe v. Wade at the Supreme Court and let the states decide if abortion should be illegal. If women then choose to get an illegal abortion and are harmed my conscience will still be clear. God told me abortion is wrong and that it is my duty to vote for someone who is not pro-abortion. :)

What about the whole stealing from the rich, giving to the poor part?

-washboard

[rossid]

What about the whole stealing from the rich, giving to the poor part?

-washboard

Kind of like Steve Martin's monologue in The Jerk:
"I'll vote for them when they, yada yada yada."

Okay that last part is from Seinfeld.

[Jesuslove]

I'll vote Republican when someone, like Ron Paul, openly opposes this war. This war is no more moral than abortion.

[middletree]

...when they stop supporting the killing of innocent babies.

I'd join you if Republicans would actually do something about abortion.

[clemsontigers23]

I'd join you if Republicans would actually do something about abortion.

GW appointed some conservative Supreme Court justices who helped pass the partial birth abortion ban. If we have another pro-life candidate in the White House, more justices will be appointed, and therefore we will be able to overturn Roe v. Wade. We're closer than we've ever been.

[middletree]

GW appointed some conservative Supreme Court justices who helped pass the partial birth abortion ban. If we have another pro-life candidate in the White House, more justices will be appointed, and therefore we will be able to overturn Roe v. Wade. We're closer than we've ever been.

Supreme Court justices don't pass anything. They decide if existing laws are constitutional. There is no partial birth abortion ban.

Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I had high, high hopes for some substantial ground to be taken against abortion when I saw that we were going to have a Republican White House and Congress. It is my observation, looking back, that what was actually done was a major letdown. I still voted Republican (Ron Paul last week in the Primary), but will not be a one-issue voter unless I am shown some solid evidence that that one issue will actually be addressed when the opportunity presents itself.

[clemsontigers23]

Supreme Court justices don't pass anything. They decide if existing laws are constitutional. There is no partial birth abortion ban.

Look, I'm not trying to be argumentative. I had high, high hopes for some substantial ground to be taken against abortion when I saw that we were going to have a Republican White House and Congress. It is my observation, looking back, that what was actually done was a major letdown. I still voted Republican (Ron Paul last week in the Primary), but will not be a one-issue voter unless I am shown some solid evidence that that one issue will actually be addressed when the opportunity presents itself.

There is too a partial birth abortion ban.

The Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act (Public Law 108-105, HR 760, S 3, 18 U.S. Code 1531)[1] (or "PBA Ban") is a United States law prohibiting a form of late-term abortion that the Act calls partial-birth abortion. The U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the term "partial-birth abortion" in the act pertains to a procedure that is scientifically called intact dilation and extraction.[2] Under this law, "Any physician who, in or affecting interstate or foreign commerce, knowingly performs a partial-birth abortion and thereby kills a human fetus shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than 2 years, or both." The law was enacted in 2003, and in 2007 its constitutionality was upheld by the U.S. Supreme Court, in the case of Gonzales v. Carhart.

That's from Wikipedia. The Supreme Court ruled on it and they upheld the ban thanks to the conservative judges GW appointed. So, GW actually HAS done something to combat abortion.

[middletree]

There is too a partial birth abortion ban.



That's from Wikipedia. The Supreme Court ruled on it and they upheld the ban thanks to the conservative judges GW appointed. So, GW actually HAS done something to combat abortion.

Fine. But other partial birth abortion bans have been struck down. One in KS, I think. At any rate, even if all partial birth abortions were banned, it is my position that they could have done a lot more. Less than 2% of abortions are late-term. Very little ground was actually taken here.

[SmileyFreak1981]

I'm with y'all on the pro-life, anti Roe vs. Wade thing, BUT...

For me, a candidate's stance on abortion is not going to be the end-all, be-all deciding factor.

Fiscal responsibility, immigration and national security are my biggest concerns. And Hillary, Obama, and McCain each haven't impressed me much on one or more of those issues.

[Sam!]

This war is no more moral than abortion.
30 million murdered children and counting. I won't say that one is "more moral" than the other, but one is a greater injustice. War can be justified. Killing the innocent is never justifiable.

[rossid]

This is the friendly discussion I was hoping for..

War

Economy

Etc.

All good, shall we say, "planks", of a party.

*stays away from 'party' discussions*

[Evanescence]

Abortion is not a black and white issue....

I used to feel it was but am no longer of the opinion. However, I do not support abortion for the sake of some spoiled brat punk to not have her life ruined by a kid. let her take her licks and deal with her kid...

That being said, I am 100% sure Roe vs Wade will never be overturned. Its become a part of the American way....get out of jail free cards, take no repsonsibility etc etc. Also, we've been brainwashed by the Planned parenthood crowd....its your choice etc etc.

Legally? America is a Republic so it should be a state by state issue first off. I am convinced that the Govt wants abortions as a means for population control....esp for the weak and poor, the NON-elite. And to protect the elite if their kid gets knocked up.

Kudos to Bush for helping with banning the sick and twisted partial birth abortion but lets call a spade a spade. Bush is anti-abortion but NOT Pro-life. He has the blood of 500,000+ Iraqi civiliians as well as our troops on his hands. And its all for oil....nothing else....oil and revenge and power.

I'll vote for anyone who is NOT in any Globalist orgs....this means these last 4 jackals are OUT. they're all Globalists and in bed with the very elitists hell bent on bringing us the New World Order. I won't be a part of that.

I pray Dr. Paul is still on the ticket....I feel he is a good man,....but has no chance to win....

[middletree]

Abortion is not a black and white issue....

But it is. If murder of a post-born human is black and white, then it should be just as clear to us that ripping an unborn baby apart, regardless of the reason, goes against all that's right.

[Evanescence]

But it is. If murder of a post-born human is black and white, then it should be just as clear to us that ripping an unborn baby apart, regardless of the reason, goes against all that's right.

Ok....well my point is this...

What if the mother's life is in jeopardy and the baby is gonna die anyway?

Let them both die?

What if the baby has no head..or some other major and OBVIOUS issue wrong with it? I know this can be misleading but I'm talking about 100% clear cases.

These are the only two issues I would agree to as a lawmaker AND it would have to be presented to a special judge who would make the ruling.

In the cases of rape and incest, I would still not allow abortion. Adoption is still an option in that case.

[middletree]

Err... if the baby is gonna die, or if the baby has no head, then it's not an abortion. The abortion issue (taking an innocent life) is still black and white.

[Valpo]

California Pro Life (oxymoron?) has this neat and tidy website loaded with statistics on abortions

http://www.californiaprolife.org/abortion/aborstats.html

[mat1583]

Ok....well my point is this...

What if the mother's life is in jeopardy and the baby is gonna die anyway?

Let them both die?

What if the baby has no head..or some other major and OBVIOUS issue wrong with it? I know this can be misleading but I'm talking about 100% clear cases.

These are the only two issues I would agree to as a lawmaker AND it would have to be presented to a special judge who would make the ruling.

In the cases of rape and incest, I would still not allow abortion. Adoption is still an option in that case.

From the link Valpo posted:

Only 1% of women aborting say they have been advised that their unborn baby has a defect, and only I% say they became pregnant by rape or incest. (Facts in Brief, The Alan Guttmacher Institute, September 1995.)

Btw, Dr. Paul has delivered over 4,000 babies and has never once found it necessary to perform an abortion.

-washboard

[Jason]

Err... if the baby is gonna die, or if the baby has no head, then it's not an abortion. The abortion issue (taking an innocent life) is still black and white.

Amen.

[Buttabean]

I guess I'm awful, but my thought is "every child a wanted child." The foster care system is already drowning in children who are not wanted. Why add even more? I've always been pro-life, but recently I've changed my stance. Granted, no one absolutely LOVES the idea of having abortions. Americans consider them a necessary evil. Like I said in another thread, in this day and age in America, abortion will never become illegal, and will never become a state issue. No president, court justice, etc. will ever be able to change it. If it ever does become a states-rights issue, we'll just have young potential mothers crossing state lines or finding their own ways of getting rid of their babies. This is a safer way to keep the "necessary evil" in check.

[Jason]

I guess I'm awful, but my thought is "every child a wanted child." The foster care system is already drowning in children who are not wanted. Why add even more? I've always been pro-life, but recently I've changed my stance. Granted, no one absolutely LOVES the idea of having abortions. Americans consider them a necessary evil. Like I said in another thread, in this day and age in America, abortion will never become illegal, and will never become a state issue. No president, court justice, etc. will ever be able to change it. If it ever does become a states-rights issue, we'll just have young potential mothers crossing state lines or finding their own ways of getting rid of their babies. This is a safer way to keep the "necessary evil" in check.

And killing innocent babies is the answer to overcrowded foster care?

[middletree]

This is a safer way to keep the "necessary evil" in check.
I'm curious how one can come to regard the ripping of a human being, limb from limb, as "safer" than anything.

[Jason]

I'm curious how one can come to regard the ripping of a human being, limb from limb, as "safer" than anything.

Or necessary.

[Jesuslove]

I guess I'm awful, but my thought is "every child a wanted child." The foster care system is already drowning in children who are not wanted. Why add even more? I've always been pro-life, but recently I've changed my stance. Granted, no one absolutely LOVES the idea of having abortions. Americans consider them a necessary evil. Like I said in another thread, in this day and age in America, abortion will never become illegal, and will never become a state issue. No president, court justice, etc. will ever be able to change it. If it ever does become a states-rights issue, we'll just have young potential mothers crossing state lines or finding their own ways of getting rid of their babies. This is a safer way to keep the "necessary evil" in check.

As an adoptive parent, I'm very pro-adoption and anti-abortion. However, you are right. We have well over 100,000 in foster care in America, and we've begun to let foreigners adopt American children. We are unable or unwilling to care for our own. My biggest criticism of the conservative anti-abortion crowd is that few are willing to step up and make a difference by either fostering, or adopting a child. I had a lengthy debate on here a few years back. What I discovered while chatting on this board is that adoption is very much a racial issue. Whites are afraid to adopt African American children. I especially found that those living in the south are particularly afraid of adopting outside their race. Although I brought up race, my real concern is that we as Americans are unable to care for the children we have now. What would we do if we added another million children into the system a year? I've never heard conservatives come up with a viable option, but I'm open to hearing solutions.

[clemsontigers23]

I guess I'm awful, but my thought is "every child a wanted child." The foster care system is already drowning in children who are not wanted. Why add even more? I've always been pro-life, but recently I've changed my stance. Granted, no one absolutely LOVES the idea of having abortions. Americans consider them a necessary evil. Like I said in another thread, in this day and age in America, abortion will never become illegal, and will never become a state issue. No president, court justice, etc. will ever be able to change it. If it ever does become a states-rights issue, we'll just have young potential mothers crossing state lines or finding their own ways of getting rid of their babies. This is a safer way to keep the "necessary evil" in check.

God creates a life, yet you think it's okay for someone to kill it because America's overcrowded? That sounds a lot like the Chinese government. It's not a "necessary evil"...it is an evil that could be done away with if we'd quit calling it a "necessary" evil. It's better to at least give the kid a chance instead of killing it before it ever got to experience the life God breathed into it.

AT LEAST 90% of abortions are done for social reasons, and even Planned Parenthood has admitted that only a very small percentage are done as a result of rape, incest, or life-threatening situations.

I especially found that those living in the south are particularly afraid of adopting outside their race.

Not again...

[middletree]

Whites are afraid to adopt African American children. I especially found that those living in the south are particularly afraid of adopting outside their race.
Your remarks are just as prejudiced as if someone told an anti-black joke featuring a watermelon as a punchline. I live in TX, and I know plenty of white people who have adopted non-white children.

More important than your prejudice, though, is the fact that, as others have already said, the overcrowding myth is no reason to allow the barbaric practice of abortion.

Compare the death penalty to abortion:

When we decide to put a murderer to death, lots of thought is put into it. First, a law must be in place, and that law was heavily debated beforehand. Then a jury has to agree that the convicted meets several requirements, such as being a threat to society. And the judge has to agree. The circumstances of the murder must be considered.
After sentence is debated and given, then the appeals process begins. Lots of lawyers and judges go over it and over it and over it, until all options are exhausted, and finally, it is decided that this human being, made in God's image, must be put to death.

With abortion, while the mother has put a lot of thought into it, the fact is that one person's decision can legally put a human being, made in God's image, to death. No appeal. No chance of a lighter sentence. And the death isn't painless like an injection. The human is torn apart by metal instruments or a vaccuum device. How in the world anyone can compare this barbarism to overcrowding is beyond me.

I'm not saying that unwanted kids are not a problem. I'm saying that abortion is the worst possible solution.

[clemsontigers23]

Your remarks are just as prejudiced as if someone told an anti-black joke featuring a watermelon as a punchline. I live in TX, and I know plenty of white people who have adopted non-white children.

More important than your prejudice, though, is the fact that, as others have already said, the overcrowding myth is no reason to allow the barbaric practice of abortion.

Compare the death penalty to abortion:

When we decide to put a murderer to death, lots of thought is put into it. First, a law must be in place, and that law was heavily debated beforehand. Then a jury has to agree that the convicted meets several requirements, such as being a threat to society. And the judge has to agree. The circumstances of the murder must be considered.
After sentence is debated and given, then the appeals process begins. Lots of lawyers and judges go over it and over it and over it, until all options are exhausted, and finally, it is decided that this human being, made in God's image, must be put to death.

With abortion, while the mother has put a lot of thought into it, the fact is that one person's decision can legally put a human being, made in God's image, to death. No appeal. No chance of a lighter sentence. And the death isn't painless like an injection. The human is torn apart by metal instruments or a vaccuum device. How in the world anyone can compare this barbarism to overcrowding is beyond me.

I'm not saying that unwanted kids are not a problem. I'm saying that abortion is the worst possible solution.

Thank you for expressing my opinion. After last night I'm in hot water if I get into another argument with JL. :o

[middletree]

I guess I'm awful

By the way, you're not awful. You express an opinion that I not only disagree with, but don't understand, which is why I responded the way I did. But you're entitled to your opinion, and having that opinion doesn't make you awful.


but my thought is "every child a wanted child."
My though is "every child a living child."

[Buttabean]

first off, I do not think its OK to get an abortion. I don't think anyone does, necessarily. I just believe that since a majority of Americans see it as an option, that it won't be going away any time soon. If I was having relations with my fiancé and we ended up getting pregnant, I wouldn't dare have an abortion. But I know that not everyone thinks like me. That's all.

BTW: I want to adopt a child when Josh and I are ready. Just so you all know I'm not evil.

[Buttabean]

I'm curious how one can come to regard the ripping of a human being, limb from limb, as "safer" than anything.


and I do not think its a necessary evil. I was not speaking for me. I was speaking for most of America. And I was thinking as a safer alternative than giving yourself an abortion. If a woman is desperate enough, she will. I've witnessed it.

[Buttabean]

God creates a life, yet you think it's okay for someone to kill it because America's overcrowded?

now who's putting words in people's mouths? :eek: I didn't say it was OK. I just said that its a reason people believe it should be here.

[middletree]

and I do not think its a necessary evil. I was not speaking for me. I was speaking for most of America. And I was thinking as a safer alternative than giving yourself an abortion. If a woman is desperate enough, she will. I've witnessed it.

The way you worded it, it appeared that you thought abortion was a better choice than allowing kids to be alive, but not adopted. I'm glad to see I misread you.

[mat1583]

If a woman is desperate enough, she will. I've witnessed it.

I've heard this line as a reasoning to allow abortion (from the pro choice crowd). I have always wanted to ask them if a wife was desperate enough, would it be alright for her to murder her husband so she could get married again at a later time. After all, if she is desperate enough, she will do it. Might as well make it quicker for the husband, right? ;)

-washboard

[Buttabean]

I've heard this line as a reasoning to allow abortion (from the pro choice crowd). I have always wanted to ask them if a wife was desperate enough, would it be alright for her to murder her husband so she could get married again at a later time. After all, if she is desperate enough, she will do it. Might as well make it quicker for the husband, right? ;)

-washboard

haha, don't know about that one Washieto. I know it sounds cliché, but I have a college friend who tried to abort her baby on her own instead of talking to her folks and going to Planned Parenthood. I think that experience has changed my opinion about it all.

[mat1583]

haha, don't know about that one Washieto. I know it sounds cliché, but I have a college friend who tried to abort her baby on her own instead of talking to her folks and going to Planned Parenthood. I think that experience has changed my opinion about it all.

What I'm saying is that a life is a life. It doesn't matter if it's still in a womb or walking and talking. Every human has a God-given right to life. In my opinion, saying that a woman should be allowed to have a professional abortion instead of dangerously doing it herself is like saying that a woman should be allowed to hire a professional hitman instead of killing her husband herself...since it could be dangerous for her to even try killing him.

-washboard

[VerbumReale]

30 million murdered children and counting. I won't say that one is "more moral" than the other, but one is a greater injustice. War can be justified. Killing the innocent is never justifiable.


Then I'll say it. Abortion is the bigger tragedy. Now I am not belittling the lives lost in the Iraq war but the reality is that with the number of American fatalities in Iraq sitting roughly at 4300, and we're coming up on the 5-year anniversary, that means it is about equal to roughly the number of abortions that take place in two and half days in the US.

Now don't get me wrong I pray for the troops to come home and I want thing in Iraq to end. But I think abortion is the bigger tragedy for many reasons. First of all the numers speak for themselves. But more than that it is more tragic because it is politically incorrect to say you are against abortion. Not this wishy-washy "I am against abortion but I support a woman's right to choose." It is politically incorect to say you are against it and want to see it stopped. And so we live in a culture where not only does this tragedy go on, but if you dare to speak out against it you're practically labeled a facist.

[middletree]

haha, don't know about that one Washieto. I know it sounds cliché, but I have a college friend who tried to abort her baby on her own instead of talking to her folks and going to Planned Parenthood. I think that experience has changed my opinion about it all.

Mary, one thing I have learned over the years is that we can't let experiences determine what we believe. If something is clearly the truth, especially if it's clear in Scripture, then personal experiences must take a back seat as far as determining what we believe.

There are a lot of reasons to say this, but I am out of time. But trust me on this one.

[Valpo]

Then I'll say it. Abortion is the bigger tragedy. Now I am not belittling the lives lost in the Iraq war but the reality is that with the number of American fatalities in Iraq sitting roughly at 4300, and we're coming up on the 5-year anniversary, that means it is about equal to roughly the number of abortions that take place in two and half days in the US.

Now don't get me wrong I pray for the troops to come home and I want thing in Iraq to end. But I think abortion is the bigger tragedy for many reasons. First of all the numers speak for themselves. But more than that it is more tragic because it is politically incorrect to say you are against abortion. Not this wishy-washy "I am against abortion but I support a woman's right to choose." It is politically incorect to say you are against it and want to see it stopped. And so we live in a culture where not only does this tragedy go on, but if you dare to speak out against it you're practically labeled a facist.

I think Post Modernism has settled in and is here to stay, now we've got to counter act that. It really does go to show you how sinful this world is when people can say that they're against abortion but not for telling a woman what to do. I'll elaborate on what Tree has been saying. There is no fundamental human right for vacuuming the brain right out of an innocent fetus or delivering a baby to its death. Another popular argument is "Well if it can sustain life outside the womb that makes it a human being." Then let's cut the crap and ban partial birth abortions which have to be the sickest thing humanity has ever come up with to pass off as normal.

Problem is, I don't think our friend JL is being deliberately prejudice. The "Evangelical" Voting Bloc in this country has done enough to be defined by being judgmental, anti-homosexual, and militant anti abortion. And by militant I literally mean the sad few who becomes semi terrorists over the issue. This is why we are seeing an emergent church reaction in this country because the mega/super/super duper "evangelical" churches have turned this country off with its law based Gospel.

We have to rise above, keep feeding the people love, and pray fervently that this sickening abuse of humanity is ended, and not just on the books.

[middletree]

Problem is, I don't think our friend JL is being deliberately prejudice.


When he says whites will not adopt non-whites, he is absolutely being prejudiced.

The "Evangelical" Voting Bloc in this country has done enough to be defined by being judgmental, anti-homosexual, and militant anti abortion. And by militant I literally mean the sad few who becomes semi terrorists over the issue.
To some extent, I agree. I am bothered, as I have said many times before, when I hear Christians insist that one political party is much more in line with God's opinions than the other party. But just as Jesse Jackson's hatefulness doesn't represent the majority of black persons, the hatefulness we see in the more public evangelical leaders doesn't represent the majority, either.

[cheewiee]

I guess I'm awful, but my thought is "every child a wanted child."

So then do you believe, abortion should be a permitted form of Birth Control?

[Buttabean]

So then do you believe, abortion should be a permitted form of Birth Control?

No, I don't. I don't think they should be easy to get. I don't think they should be a crutch. I never said it should be a "birth control method." Sorry I got people so riled. Like I said in other posts, I don't think abortion is right. But I think that it will not go away in this day and age, for the reasons I stated in later posts. I'd rather not be looked at in shock and disgust anymore, so just read the rest of it and let it be. Sorry I said anything. I understand that these are Christian boards, but not all Christians believe that abortion is wrong. I believe it is wrong, but I am not the one who decides.

[middletree]

Mary, you said that last night, too, but when I go back to the original post, it sure looks like you are saying something completely different.

[cheewiee]

I never said it should be a "birth control method."

No, you didn't say that, directly... but honestly, based on what you said, it is really easy to infer that... Talking about abortion as a necessary evil... and making sure every baby is a wanted baby...

I have honestly have alot more respect for the pro choice position that argues from the stance, that a fetus isn't a human life, than I do the argument that says, "I personally think abortion is wrong, but it is a necessary evil."

The only way abortion is wrong, is if we take the stance that the fetus is in fact a human life. If it is in fact human life, shouldn't our laws be written such to preserve life? I mean to argue that they may not be wanted, you start talking about quality of life..

Now lets look at the kids in Foster Care... The kids in foster care are there, not because they wern't "wanted" persay, they are in foster care, because for some reason or another it is determined that their parents are not fit parents. This could be for a brief time, while Mom and Dad pull their lives together, or it could be a more permanent thing, where Mom and Dad, either can't or won't be in a place where they can provide a stable loving home.

Those kids in foster care, who are not getting adopted, are not getting adopted because they are older (Not cute little babies) and they have baggage that can make them very difficult to deal with.

Back to the primary topic... abortion, in this country is used as birth control. As much as the majority of America disapproves, this is the reason 1,000,000 babies are aborted annually. It is used as a way to mitigate the consequences of an adult decision. When you really look at the statistics, a large majority of the abortions out there as a result of using no other form of Birth Control.

To me that is unacceptable, sorry, and when someone calls it a "necessary evil" that is the practice that you are defending. I am sorry, if that isn't the message you "want" to convey, but it is the message that you ultimately convey.

[Buttabean]

Mary, you said that last night, too, but when I go back to the original post, it sure looks like you are saying something completely different.

I apologize for confusing. I'd rather not be focused on in this debate any longer, if you please.

[VerbumReale]

It really does go to show you how sinful this world is when people can say that they're against abortion but not for telling a woman what to do.


Indeed. That comment hearkens me back to the 04 election when John Kerry said on Larry King Live that he believes that life begins at conception and that he is personally against abortion but that he supports a woman's right to choose.

So if he really does believe that life begins at conception then essentially what he was saying was that he is against murder as long as it doesn't get in the way of a woman's right to choose.

[rossid]

No, I don't. I don't think they should be easy to get. I don't think they should be a crutch. I never said it should be a "birth control method." Sorry I got people so riled. Like I said in other posts, I don't think abortion is right. But I think that it will not go away in this day and age, for the reasons I stated in later posts. I'd rather not be looked at in shock and disgust anymore, so just read the rest of it and let it be. Sorry I said anything. I understand that these are Christian boards, but not all Christians believe that abortion is wrong. I believe it is wrong, but I am not the one who decides.

Don't be sorry! ;)

I apologize for confusing. I'd rather not be focused on in this debate any longer, if you please.

Okay - I still like you. :P

*dashes out of thread before saying anything more*

[clemsontigers23]

Indeed. That comment hearkens me back to the 04 election when John Kerry said on Larry King Live that he believes that life begins at conception and that he is personally against abortion but that he supports a woman's right to choose.

So if he really does believe that life begins at conception then essentially what he was saying was that he is against murder as long as it doesn't get in the way of a woman's right to choose.

That's a good point, and it's a position that I'm having a hard time understanding. No one should get the right to choose who lives and who dies. If the woman doesn't want the child, give it up for adoption. At least give the kid a chance. Too many innocent lives are lost each day and it's legal! And the Democratic party is largely in favor of expanding the practice. That's why I can't vote Democrat, more than anything. It's disgusting. Sorry for the strong language but it sickens me to think that so many BABIES are being MURDERED each day and it's passed off as an acceptable practice! My gosh what has happened to this country where we would allow something so horrible? The reasons for most of abortions make it even worse to think about. A lot of abortions, and I've witnessed this myself, happen because teenage girls, or young girls, get pregnant and decide they just don't want a baby so they kill it. I just can't wrap my mind around it. All I can understand is that Satan's done a good job in that aspect of his strategy against us.

[rossid]

That's a good point, and it's a position that I'm having a hard time understanding. No one should get the right to choose who lives and who dies. If the woman doesn't want the child, give it up for adoption. At least give the kid a chance. Too many innocent lives are lost each day and it's legal! And the Democratic party is largely in favor of expanding the practice. That's why I can't vote Democrat, more than anything. It's disgusting. Sorry for the strong language but it sickens me to think that so many BABIES are being MURDERED each day and it's passed off as an acceptable practice! My gosh what has happened to this country where we would allow something so horrible? The reasons for most of abortions make it even worse to think about. A lot of abortions, and I've witnessed this myself, happen because teenage girls, or young girls, get pregnant and decide they just don't want a baby so they kill it. I just can't wrap my mind around it. All I can understand is that Satan's done a good job in that aspect of his strategy against us.IMHO which BABIES live and which die is completely unrelated to which MEN/WOMEN in a war live and which die.

[clemsontigers23]

IMHO which BABIES live and which die is completely unrelated to which MEN/WOMEN in a war live and which die.

Exactly. Those men/women make the choice to go fight and know the risks involved...a BABY has absolutely NO say when it comes to abortion. It's like a slap in a face to God when He blesses somebody with a child and they decide they don't want it so they kill His beautiful creation.

[Evanescence]

That's a good point, and it's a position that I'm having a hard time understanding. No one should get the right to choose who lives and who dies. If the woman doesn't want the child, give it up for adoption. At least give the kid a chance. Too many innocent lives are lost each day and it's legal! And the Democratic party is largely in favor of expanding the practice. That's why I can't vote Democrat, more than anything. It's disgusting. Sorry for the strong language but it sickens me to think that so many BABIES are being MURDERED each day and it's passed off as an acceptable practice! My gosh what has happened to this country where we would allow something so horrible? The reasons for most of abortions make it even worse to think about. A lot of abortions, and I've witnessed this myself, happen because teenage girls, or young girls, get pregnant and decide they just don't want a baby so they kill it. I just can't wrap my mind around it. All I can understand is that Satan's done a good job in that aspect of his strategy against us.


Sing it brother.... :P

I am pretty radical when it comes to being anti-abortion. If I had my way....it'd be outlawed and doctors would be given the death sentence for performing underground abortions....the mothers...either life or the same.

If we condemn murders to death for killing the innocent...there should be no difference. if we had tougher laws...esp for stuff like this, rapes and murders in general, people would think twice about doing it. Lets have alternatives....easy and simple ones...but also tough laws to protect the innocent.

The miracle is that Clemson and i agree on soemthing....I think I'm gonna cry...:cool: :cool: :cool:

[clemsontigers23]

Sing it brother.... :P

I am pretty radical when it comes to being anti-abortion. If I had my way....it'd be outlawed and doctors would be given the death sentence for performing underground abortions....the mothers...either life or the same.

If we condemn murders to death for killing the innocent...there should be no difference. if we had tougher laws...esp for stuff like this, rapes and murders in general, people would think twice about doing it. Lets have alternatives....easy and simple ones...but also tough laws to protect the innocent.

The miracle is that Clemson and i agree on soemthing....I think I'm gonna cry...:cool: :cool: :cool:

Woah. :eek: ;)

We're both Christians E so we HAVE to agree on SOMETHING, right? ;)

[sandyandporter]

Woah. :eek: ;)

We're both Christians E so we HAVE to agree on SOMETHING, right? ;)

Sniff, sniff... I'm feeling the love! :P

I used to be pro-choice... "no one can tell ME what I can do with my own body".... big surprise huh? It's only through the saving grace of Jesus Christ that I saw the truth. I've done a complete 180 and am strongly pro-life now.