Obama's Church's Statement of Faith

[Jason]

From Obama's church - Trinity United Church of Christ-

We are a congregation which is Unashamedly Black and Unapologetically Christian... Our roots in the Black religious experience and tradition are deep, lasting and permanent. We are an African people, and remain "true to our native land," the mother continent, the cradle of civilization. God has superintended our pilgrimage through the days of slavery, the days of segregation, and the long night of racism. It is God who gives us the strength and courage to continuously address injustice as a people, and as a congregation. We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

The Pastor as well as the membership of Trinity United Church of Christ is committed to a 10-point Vision:

1. A congregation committed to ADORATION.
2. A congregation preaching SALVATION.
3. A congregation actively seeking RECONCILIATION.
4. A congregation with a non-negotiable COMMITMENT TO AFRICA.
5. A congregation committed to BIBLICAL EDUCATION.
6. A congregation committed to CULTURAL EDUCATION.
7. A congregation committed to the HISTORICAL EDUCATION OF AFRICAN PEOPLE IN DIASPORA.
8. A congregation committed to LIBERATION.
9. A congregation committed to RESTORATION.
10. A congregation working towards ECONOMIC PARITY.


http://www.tucc.org/about.htm

[clemsontigers23]

I've seen this many times. Replace the word "white" for black" and what do you have? Political suicide. The double standard is alive and well.

If I tried to start a church celebrating white culture and the celebration of white history, I would get death threats on a daily basis and would be linked to the KKK. I'm not going to do that because I don't agree with it, but it's no different with Obama's church.

[rossid]

I heard Reverend Wright was resigning but that is not confirmed.

[Heaven Sent777]

I am so blessed to have a Rainbow congregation my church has just about every nationality there is, we even have International Sunday every Sept. that's when each family of a different culture prepares a dish from their country so we get to chow down on Egyptian, African, Chinese, Japanese,Filipino,Mexican , Italian, Puerto Rican, German, Samoan, Scandinavian and many more foods. We are all one body :D

[VerbumReale]

I found this statement interesting.

We constantly affirm our trust in God through cultural expression of a Black worship service and ministries which address the Black Community.

Last I checked the great commission calls us to reach out to all nations.

[Jesuslove]

I think we, as white folk, tend to be super sensitive. Traditionallly and historically, races have worshipped separately. In order to maintain their identity, some minority groups prefer to worship with people like themselves. That doesn't mean all are not welcome. The church I belong to has proposed merging with an African American congregation for economic reasons. I encourage this, however some in my faith community do not. Some would take issue with the physical church having an African decor, when the church has traditionally had an Anglo feel and look. Not far from my church is a church where services are done in Polish. The Polish welcome others, but they don't change the way things are done at their church.

The point I'm trying to make is that we all feel comfortable in our surroundings. There is nothing wrong with a minority group affirming themselves through worship and fellowship. Whites have done this for years.

[Sam!]

I've seen this many times. Replace the word "white" for black" and what do you have? Political suicide. The double standard is alive and well.

If I tried to start a church celebrating white culture and the celebration of white history, I would get death threats on a daily basis and would be linked to the KKK. I'm not going to do that because I don't agree with it, but it's no different with Obama's church.
White Americans were not persecuted and humiliated by an oppressive and abusive majority, nor is there much of a common white culture that otherwise binds them together. While I recognize that African-Americans come from diverse cultural heritages, they do have their previous oppression which does bind them together in a unique way and they do as a race face a set of common challenges.

As far as their intention to focus their minsitires on black people here, Steve, I don't have problem with that. Every congregation of people is going to have a particular set of passions. A group of people cannot be all things to all people, and its good that they have a focus, vision and calling. So long as they don't view their call as more important than ministering to other groups of people, or that being black gives them some sort of salvation advantage, this statement doesn't bother me.

What does bother me is the complete inattention to the historic creeds, which are a part of the heritage of the church in Africa. In being brief and vague, their statement doesn't really say much. It's what they've left out that bothers me, not what they've chosen to say. ADORATION of whom? SALVATION from what? To what? By what (or whom)? What kind of BIBLICAL EDUCATION?

[middletree]

Am I just missing something, or is the word "Jesus" missing from that beliefs statement? Do they have another portion of the website where they explain their views on salvation?

[Valpo]

What does bother me is the complete inattention to the historic creeds, which are a part of the heritage of the church in Africa. In being brief and vague, their statement doesn't really say much. It's what they've left out that bothers me, not what they've chosen to say. ADORATION of whom? SALVATION from what? To what? By what (or whom)? What kind of BIBLICAL EDUCATION?

This is the part that bothers me most about Dr. Wright and TUCC as well. That and the political grandstanding that Dr. Wright does from his pulpit is also very troublesome.

[middletree]

I just went to the site and couldn't find another page that contained a statement of faith, or "what we believe" or anything similar.

I did find this:

http://www.tucc.org/talking_points.htm

Dr. Wright’s talking points (3.1.7) for Trinity United Church of Christ its Web site and the Black Value System (in response to Erik Rush’s comments (2.28.07) on the Hannity and Colmes show):

• One of the biggest gaps in knowledge that causes the kind of ignorance that you hear spouted by this man [Erik Rush] and those like him, has to do with the fact that these persons are completely ignorant when it comes to the Black religious tradition. The vision statement of Trinity United Church of Christ is based upon the systematized liberation theology that started in 1969 with the publication of Dr. James Cone’s book, Black Power and Black Theology.

• Black theology is one of the many theologies in the Americas that became popular during the liberation theology movement. They include Hispanic theology, Native American theology, Asian theology and Womanist theology.

• I use the word “systematized” because Black liberation theology was in existence long before Dr. Cone’s book. It originates in the days of the Trans-Atlantic slave trade. It was systematized and published by theologians, Old Testament scholars, New Testament scholars, ethicists, church historians, and historians of religion such as Dr. James Cone, Dr. Cain Hope Felder, Dr. Gayraud Wilmore, Dr. Jacqueline Grant, Dr. Kelley Brown Douglas, Dr. Renita Weems, Dr. Katie Cannon, Dr. Dwight Hopkins, Dr. Linda Thomas, and Dr. Randall Bailey.

• These scholars, who write in various disciplines, also include seminary presidents like Dr. John Kinney and professors of Hebrew Bible, like Dr. Jerome Ross. Black liberation theology defines Africans and African Americans as subjects – not the objects which colonizers and oppressors have consistently defined “others” as.

• We [African Americans] were always seen as objects. When we started defining ourselves, it scared those who try to control others by naming them and defining them for them; Oppressors do not like “others” defining themselves.

• To have a church whose theological perspective starts from the vantage point of Black liberation theology being its center, is not to say that African or African American people are superior to any one else.

• African-centered thought, unlike Eurocentrism, does not assume superiority and look at everyone else as being inferior.

• There is more than one center from which to view the world. In the words of Dr. Janice Hale, “Difference does not mean deficience.” It is from this vantage point that Black liberation theology speaks.

• Systematized Black liberation theology is 40 years old. Scholars of African and African American religious history show that Black liberation theology, however, has been in existence for 400 years. It is found in the songs, the sermons, the testimonies and the oral literature of Africans throughout the Diaspora.

[VerbumReale]

I think we, as white folk, tend to be super sensitive. Traditionallly and historically, races have worshipped separately. In order to maintain their identity, some minority groups prefer to worship with people like themselves. That doesn't mean all are not welcome. The church I belong to has proposed merging with an African American congregation for economic reasons. I encourage this, however some in my faith community do not. Some would take issue with the physical church having an African decor, when the church has traditionally had an Anglo feel and look. Not far from my church is a church where services are done in Polish. The Polish welcome others, but they don't change the way things are done at their church.

The point I'm trying to make is that we all feel comfortable in our surroundings. There is nothing wrong with a minority group affirming themselves through worship and fellowship. Whites have done this for years.

That's not the point. Of course there is nothing wrong with minority goups or any cultural groups having worship environments that incorporate elements of that culture in their worship. But worship is worship. You say there is nothing wrong with a minority group affirming themselves through worship. Well, I would agree there is nothing wrong with affirmation occurring in the midst of worship, but worship is not personal affirmation and so I have trouble with the idea that it happens through worship.

What should happen through worship is the glorification of God, proclamation of the Gospel and the redemption of sinners. As redeemed sinners and the body of Christ we are called to bring the Gospel to our neighbor throuh Word and deed. Culitural affirmation is great and can even be used as a means to an end to get the gospel out, but it is not the end it self and it seems that this church has equated cultural affirmation with the Gospel.

[middletree]

worship is not personal affirmation and so I have trouble with the idea that it happens through worship.

Perfect.

The walk that God has called us to has to be God-centered. Everything I read in that church's statement of faith is man-centered. When Eve sinned, it was because she put her wants in front of what God wanted. Man-centered theology has never been a good idea.

Having said all that, it wouldn't keep me from voting for Obama. One can be a good president and have messed-up theology, and one can be a solid Christian and be a terrible president.

[VerbumReale]

Perfect.

The walk that God has called us to has to be God-centered. Everything I read in that church's statement of faith is man-centered. When Eve sinned, it was because she put her wants in front of what God wanted. Man-centered theology has never been a good idea.

Having said all that, it wouldn't keep me from voting for Obama. One can be a good president and have messed-up theology, and one can be a solid Christian and be a terrible president.


Exactly. I am writing a sermon right now on Matthew 4:12-23 (http://http://bible.oremus.org/?passage=Matthew+4:12-23&vnum=yes&version=nrsv). As the
passage begins Jesus comes out of the wilderness and hears that John the Baptist had been killed and then He goes to live in Capernaum.

Capernaum was in Galilee and so the people that lived in Capernaum would have been gentiles who would have been considered second-class citezens and would have experienced discrimination and rejection the likes of which just about any of us, black or white, could never imagine. And yet when Jesus comes to live with them does He culturally affirm them?? No, He says "Repent for the Kingdom of Heaven has come near!!"


But I agree this has nothing to do with how I evaluate Obama as a candidate.

[clemsontigers23]

White Americans were not persecuted and humiliated by an oppressive and abusive majority, nor is there much of a common white culture that otherwise binds them together. While I recognize that African-Americans come from diverse cultural heritages, they do have their previous oppression which does bind them together in a unique way and they do as a race face a set of common challenges.

As far as their intention to focus their minsitires on black people here, Steve, I don't have problem with that. Every congregation of people is going to have a particular set of passions. A group of people cannot be all things to all people, and its good that they have a focus, vision and calling. So long as they don't view their call as more important than ministering to other groups of people, or that being black gives them some sort of salvation advantage, this statement doesn't bother me.

What does bother me is the complete inattention to the historic creeds, which are a part of the heritage of the church in Africa. In being brief and vague, their statement doesn't really say much. It's what they've left out that bothers me, not what they've chosen to say. ADORATION of whom? SALVATION from what? To what? By what (or whom)? What kind of BIBLICAL EDUCATION?

I have a problem with the idea that because black people were oppressed then we should feel sorry for them and let them get away with some things because they were oppressed. I, nor does anyone here, owe anyone anything for something that happened before our lifetimes. That is the problem I have with reparations for slavery. No African-American living today has ever been a slave. Period.

I actually heard one guy say that some white people should have to suffer to "right a wrong" in history. I have a huge problem with that. I also have a huge problem with churches describing themselves as a church that celebrates black culture when I don't believe race or color should have anything to do with worship. That's going too far. White, black, brown, green...we're all equal and we all worship the same God. If you want people to stop discriminating based on race, then people need to stop discriminating based on race, which means stop giving special privileges to African-Americans regarding colleges and the such. African-Americans today have the same rights as everyone else. There's no reason to keep talking about what happened in the past. The past is history, and it's time to move forward and stop bringing up the past because it will only keep us from moving forward.

[Valpo]

I have a problem with the idea that because black people were oppressed then we should feel sorry for them and let them get away with some things because they were oppressed. I, nor does anyone here, owe anyone anything for something that happened before our lifetimes. That is the problem I have with reparations for slavery. No African-American living today has ever been a slave. Period.

I actually heard one guy say that some white people should have to suffer to "right a wrong" in history. I have a huge problem with that. I also have a huge problem with churches describing themselves as a church that celebrates black culture when I don't believe race or color should have anything to do with worship. That's going too far. White, black, brown, green...we're all equal and we all worship the same God. If you want people to stop discriminating based on race, then people need to stop discriminating based on race, which means stop giving special privileges to African-Americans regarding colleges and the such. African-Americans today have the same rights as everyone else. There's no reason to keep talking about what happened in the past. The past is history, and it's time to move forward and stop bringing up the past because it will only keep us from moving forward.

Black people who say whites should suffer a right a wrong thing are also dead wrong. The problem is Clemson, although none of us were slave owners and no African American living today was a slave the institution of slavery is still alive and well in racism. I am not even saying Sharpton and Jesse have it right, but I can see a horrible problem when it's staring me in the face. I am against reparations for similar reasons as you, I don't even know where people would begin to pay. For example, my ancestors date back to post 19th century and are mostly Irish and Italian, there is absolutely no reason to pay for a reparation. Plus who pays? How much? The questions go on and on. But even more than that I don't wanna pay reparations just to "make them problem go away." The problem will not go away. And I do not want to simply pay someone off either. I want to co-exist and live with African Americans, all people of color and culture for that matter. Reparations does not solve anything, it just creates further animosity. That being said however, race and lingering effects of the institution of slavery is very evident. Most inner city schools are still segregated, this is a fact. I heard a stat in one of my classes today that something like 85% of African Americans still live and go to school in essentially segregated neighborhoods. I really wish I had a source for that though. But in any event, racism is a huge issue, and sadly I don't see it going away.

[rossid]

We should ALL as humans, be sensitive, some are super sensitive, agreed.

[clemsontigers23]

Black people who say whites should suffer a right a wrong thing are also dead wrong. The problem is Clemson, although none of us were slave owners and no African American living today was a slave the institution of slavery is still alive and well in racism. I am not even saying Sharpton and Jesse have it right, but I can see a horrible problem when it's staring me in the face. I am against reparations for similar reasons as you, I don't even know where people would begin to pay. For example, my ancestors date back to post 19th century and are mostly Irish and Italian, there is absolutely no reason to pay for a reparation. Plus who pays? How much? The questions go on and on. But even more than that I don't wanna pay reparations just to "make them problem go away." The problem will not go away. And I do not want to simply pay someone off either. I want to co-exist and live with African Americans, all people of color and culture for that matter. Reparations does not solve anything, it just creates further animosity. That being said however, race and lingering effects of the institution of slavery is very evident. Most inner city schools are still segregated, this is a fact. I heard a stat in one of my classes today that something like 85% of African Americans still live and go to school in essentially segregated neighborhoods. I really wish I had a source for that though. But in any event, racism is a huge issue, and sadly I don't see it going away.

Interesting that you should bring up the segregation in schools. I remember the Supreme Court case not too long ago when they were deciding whether or not whites in Washington state would have to go to lesser schools that were miles away from their homes so that the schools could be "desegregated." On Hannity & Colmes, Sean Hannity asked this black guy why a white kid should have to suffer for slavery and other wrongs done in the past. The guy actually said "Well, somebody's gotta suffer." Luckily, there was another black guy on there who repeated one of the Supreme Court justice's sentiments that if you want race discrimination to stop, then we should stop discriminating based on race. I am very glad for those kids and their parents that the bussing proposal was shot down and I can tell you from going to a school where we've had racial problems in the past that if that proposal had went through, it would have only created animosity and violence between whites and blacks at those schools. I know I wouldn't be too happy about having to go to a lesser school an hour away from my house just so the school could be "desegregated." It's a sad situation, but that wasn't the way to handle it.

After that, Democrats were outraged at the decision because it was mainly conservatives who shot it down which only increased my opposition to the Democratic party, but I'm pretty sure that even the African American justice voted against it. I understand that slavery was a bad thing, but it shouldn't be treated as a racial thing. African Americans had slaves and the slaves were sold to us by other Africans who had captured them and made them their slaves. It wasn't even a racial issue until African Americans made it into one. Slavery is a human rights issue, not a racial issue. Once people realize that, a lot of progress can be made. I've seen more reverse racism than anything in my lifetime. The fact that there's so many organizations dedicated specificially to blacks doesn't exactly scream equality. A perfect example is the NAACP and the United Negro College Fund. I've been seeing a lot of those UNCF commercials lately where the message has been things that African-Americans have invented. They might as well say "Look what us black people have done that white people couldn't do. Give us your money." Why should blacks get their own college fund? I could use some of that money next year but I'm not black so I won't get any. I could use affirmitive action to get into some great colleges but because I'm a white man I won't get any of those advantages. A person who just so happens to belong to a minority who might not have the same qualifications as me might end up taking my spot in a college or at a job I apply to in the future. That's why there's racism. It's an injustice and it's denying white people some things because they're white. Is that not racism? Is affirmitive action not racism (and in some cases sexism) too? Is the UNCF not racism? What about the NAACP? They're all about the colored people but what about people who are not colored? What about this church? Can't they celebrate all cultures? Do you get why all of this promotes inequality instead of equality and why it actually causes racism rather than help get rid of it?