Actor Heath Ledger found dead

[Debbie]

This afternoon in his Manhattan apartment by the housekeeper. Tragic Tragic and I pray they don't come back and say suicide or overdose...

Very sad, other than the Brokeback thing....A Knight's Tale and The Four Feathers along with Brothers Grim are my favorites. This is unbelievable!

Heath Ledger Found Dead in NYC
Jan. 22, 2008, 5:11 PM EST
The Associated Press

NEW YORK -- Heath Ledger was found dead Tuesday at a downtown Manhattan residence, and police said drugs may have been a factor. He was 28. NYPD spokesman Paul Browne said Ledger had an appointment for a massage at the Manhattan apartment believed to be his home. The housekeeper who went to let him know the masseuse had arrived found him dead at 3:26 p.m.

The Australian-born actor was nominated for an Oscar for "Brokeback Mountain," where he met his wife, actress Michelle Williams, in 2005. Ledger and Williams had lived in Brooklyn and had a daughter, Matilda, until they split up last year.

Ledger was to appear as the Joker this year in "The Dark Night," a sequel to 2005's "Batman Begins." He's had starring roles in "A Knight's Tale" and "The Patriot," and played the suicidal son of Billy Bob Thornton in "Monster's Ball."

Ledger grew up in Perth, and began doing amateur theater at age 10. At 16, he moved to Sydney to pursue an acting career, quickly landing TV movie roles and guest spots on Australian television.

After several independent films and a starring role in the short-lived Fox TV series "Roar," Ledger moved to Los Angeles and costarred in "10 Things I Hate About You," a teen comedy reworking of "The Taming of the Shrew."

Offers for other teen flicks came his way, but Ledger turned them down, preferring to remain idle than sign on for projects he didn't like.

"It wasn't a hard decision for me," Ledger told the Associated Press in 2001. "It was hard for everyone else around me to understand. Agents were like, `You're crazy,' my parents were like, `Come on, you have to eat.'"

His latest role was in "I'm Not There," in which he played one of the many incarnations of Bob Dylan — as did Cate Blanchett, whose performance in that film earned an Oscar nomination Tuesday for best supporting actress.

[RevZeek]

Sorry to say Debbie but it looks like a drug overdose...http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22788914/?GT1=10755

Sad and tragic.

[cheewiee]

That stinks... I was really looking foward to him as Joker....

[mat1583]

That stinks... I was really looking foward to him as Joker....

Well the Dark Knight is in its post production stages, so I wouldn't imagine that they would re-shoot every scene with the Joker in it. They'll just have to re-cast for the next installment.

-washboard

[Valpo]

holy crap, pretty unbelievable, just goes to show you how sick this world really is...drugs, drugs, drugs, another young life taken away

[Debbie]

That stinks... I was really looking foward to him as Joker....

Yep me too. I was unaware that he had a part in the new Dylan movie. Krud, this just stinks. He was a youngin and very talented.

[clemsontigers23]

Apparently he died in an apartment owned by Mary-Kate Olsen, who checked into rehab for an unknown reason not too long ago. Not sure why he was there but prescription pills were scattered around his body. I think I heard on Fox News that he injured himself on the set of Dark Knight and that's why the masseuse was coming over. It might be an accidental overdose, but it also might have been intentional. Right now, details are a little fuzzy.

[clemsontigers23]

UPDATE: Police now say the death was an accident and reports are now coming in that the apartment isn't owned by Mary-Kate Olsen, so that was an inaccurate report.

[Healing Oil]

Im just, speechless.

He has a young daughter and is newly divorced, this is just sad.

You know...a big part of me doesnt think this was suicide or an overdose. It seems really odd to me that there were pills all over the floor/bed. If he wanted to kill himself, those pills would be in his stomache. Maybe he collapsed. I'll wait for toxicology reports.

[clemsontigers23]

He did have a substance abuse problem but apparently he had been sober for about a year. Maybe the prescription pills got him hooked again, but what everyone can't figure out is why were the pills scattered all over the bed.

[Tony Trout]

Man...this is just tragic....:(

[Valpo]

CNN was just reporting he was on sleeping pills because he developed insomnia for the role of the Joker, and hasn't been sleeping for more than two hours a night.

[pamcharlie]

It is very sad such a talented actor and such a young age 28 and the father of a daughter under the age of 3 :(

It is a shock to all fans , fellow actors and movie producers and even to his family in aussie

such a talented actor and i was looking forward to seeing him playing the joker in new batman movie

And he also played bob dylan in the movie "i'm not there" along with the other seven actors who played mr dylan

[Healing Oil]

but what everyone can't figure out is why were the pills scattered all over the bed.That is what has me confused. :confused:

[Jason]

Wow. In years past, I had thought of different actors who could play my brother David in a film. My first choice was River Phoenix. After his death, I chose Heath Ledger. I think I'll stop choosing.

The article failed to mention a role I really enjoyed ... the eldest son to Mel Gibson's The Patriot.

[clemsontigers23]

Wow. In years past, I had thought of different actors who could play my brother David in a film. My first choice was River Phoenix. After his death, I chose Heath Ledger. I think I'll stop choosing.

The article failed to mention a role I really enjoyed ... the eldest son to Mel Gibson's The Patriot.

That was an amazing movie. I'm surprised they didn't mention that role, as well.

[Healing Oil]

That was an amazing movie. I'm surprised they didn't mention that role, as well.

Me too...it is his only movie I actually enjoyed. I wasn't really into any of his other movies that I can recall.

Such a shame.

[JanetRN]

I would be willing to bet that it was an accidental overdose of the sleeping pills or mixing of RX pain meds and a sleeping pill that caused resp. depression (like sufficating slowly) to happen.... So sad...

[Jason]

It is sad. I obviously didn't agree with all his script choices, but he was a good actor.

[Healing Oil]

I would be willing to bet that it was an accidental overdose of the sleeping pills or mixing of RX pain meds and a sleeping pill that caused resp. depression (like sufficating slowly) to happen.... So sad...

Yea, I just have a feeling it wasnt intentional. I read he was sick with pneumonia as well but that it hasn't been confirmed.

[EmmoGomer]

Just woke up to hear this tragic news. I am really depressed by it. What a waste.

His role in The Patriot was mentioned in this news report....

Tributes have been flooding in for movie star Heath Ledger as Hollywood reels from the news of his death.


His body was discovered in his Manhattan home by his housekeeper yesterday afternoon.

Mara Buxbaum, Ledger's publicist, said: "We are all deeply saddened and shocked by this accident.

"This is an extremely difficult time for his loved ones and we are asking the media to please respect the family's privacy and avoid speculation until the facts are known."

In Australia, Ledger's father Kim spoke of his family's grief and said the actor's death was accidental.

"We, Heath's family can confirm the very tragic, untimely and accidental passing of our dearly loved son, brother and doting father of Matilda," Mr Ledger said in Perth.

"He was a down to earth, generous, kind hearted, life loving, unselfish individual, extremely inspirational to many.

"Heath has touched so many people on so many different levels during his short life that few had the pleasure of truly knowing him."

Tributes to the young actor were led by Australia's prime minister Kevin Rudd, who said he was greatly saddened by Ledger's death.

Fellow Australian Nicole Kidman said it was a "terrible tragedy" and sent her condolences to Ledger's family while Mel Gibson, who played Ledger's vengeful father in The Patriot, said: "I had such great hope for him.

"He was just taking off and to lose his life at such a young age is a tragic loss."

Tamba Mossa, the superintendent at the SoHo building where Ledger lived, described him as "sweet" and added: "He loved his daughter."

Michelle Vella, who works in nearby store Calypso, said she had frequently seen Ledger carrying his daughter Matilda, two, on his shoulders, or having ice cream with her.

"It's so sad. They were really close," said Ms Vella, "He's a very down to earth guy and an amazing father."

Ledger was last spotted publicly in London on Saturday on the set of Terry Gilliam's The Imaginarium Of Doctor Parnassus, showbiz website TMZ reported.

Photos showed Ledger wearing a clown costume. Other pictures of Ledger out of costume showed him with long brown hair and a dark goatee.

Most recently, he appeared as the singer Bob Dylan in I'm Not There and was due to appear as the Joker this year in The Dark Night, a sequel to 2005's Batman Begins.

In November, he told The New York Times that he "stressed out a little too much" during the Dylan film, and had trouble sleeping while portraying the Joker, whom he called a psychopathic, mass-murdering, schizophrenic clown with zero empathy".

"Last week I probably slept an average of two hours a night," Ledger told the newspaper.

"I couldn't stop thinking. My body was exhausted, and my mind was still going."

Before his relationship with Michelle Williams, with whom he had daughter Matilda, he also dated actresses Heather Graham and Naomi Watts.

[Gandalf]

This afternoon in his Manhattan apartment by the housekeeper. Tragic Tragic and I pray they don't come back and say suicide or overdose...

Very sad, other than the Brokeback thing....A Knight's Tale and The Four Feathers along with Brothers Grim are my favorites. This is unbelievable!
OK, it's sad that a 28 year old man died, but no sadder than when a 28-year old hillbilly blows himself up in a meth lab and leaves several children to follow in his footsteps, or a homeless guy falls off a bridge while sleeping and his relatives are left to deal with the aftermath. How is it a tragedy?

It's not as if he were a national leader. This is a guy who made his living pretending to be other people, and didn't contribute anything to society beyond a few hours of entertainment. That's not to say he wasn't a valuable person, but his death is no more tragic than anyone else's.

It's a sad commentary on our culture that this is front-page news... The biggest impact on society is that ... they'll have to recast the Joker in the new Batman movie? It's terrible for his family, but ... really. Tragic? I disagree.

[kiwisongbird]

Always tragic when someone who isn't with the Lord dies - yes, tragic too when a Shan displaced person gets shot by the Burmese Army while planting rice in the jungle and tragic when yet another homosexual dies of AIDS and tragic when another baby is murdered by a doctor pretending to 'help' the mother - it's just that Heath Ledger is a public personality so we can all 'see' it more - in some ways it is sad that we're thinking that this is tragic, but in a way when someone is so public, we can tend to feel that we 'own' them a little...

Any time I write about things in Burma (I've kinda given up now) I feel a bit like I'm thinking you're feeling about people thinking this is tragic - I just don't get that people can't feel for the plight of the displaced people in Burma and for the Burmese people who are abused by their own people...kinda like you don't get why people are saying this is tragic... we all have things we 'feel' about... :) and don't always, if ever, understand why others feel the way they do about things... :)

[Beachcomber]

That is so sad!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! His movie a knights tale was one of my favs!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:(

[Sam!]

I'm hearing this morning that it's really difficult for a young man to overdose fatally on sleeping pills without some kind of drug combination. Out of respect for him and his family, perhaps we can stop the speculating until we know what's what.

There's nothing wrong with being sad about his death, and if he didn't know the Lord then that does make it even more sad.

However.

tragedy: an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress (Oxford English Dictionary)

I don't think this can really be claimed as a tragedy, and to do so simply erodes at the meaning of the word.

[sandyandporter]

I have spent last night and this morning thanking God I'm alive. In 2004 I was addicted to prescription pills. I was taking in excess of 40 pills per day. There is no earthly reason that I'm alive today. Whenever I hear of someone overdosing my first thought is always, "how many pills did they take?".

To Sam and Brian, it IS a tragedy (even by your own definition "tragedy: an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress (Oxford English Dictionary)") when someone has a substance abuse problem that results in their death. It's a daily tragedy to THEM and to those that love them. So try and have some compassion. No one has said his death is more tragic than anyone else's. I'm not sure where your anger comes from but.... some things are better left unsaid. Isn't there a Third Day song about that? ;)

[Sam!]

Anger? Whose angry? Although now I'm a little upset that you would post here assuming you know what emotions are in my head and heart. I'm not angry and I'm not being calloused. On a national or international level, I find it hard to label this a tragedy. Heath may (or may not) have been suffering from a substance abuse problem. Certainly in his daughter's life, this is tragic - as it is for the rest of his family and friends. But I would submit that none of us have probably even met the late Mr. Ledger or have sort of relationship. When a president is assassinated, he's everybody's president. When two student barge into school with guns blazing, we all empathize because we've all been students, are students, have kids that are students... most of us work in public places and figured in public we were relatively safe. It's an attack on all of us.

I'm not angry, I'm saying let's think about this. Not everything that is sad is "tragic." Not every death is "tragic." An older gentleman was recently killed when his wife was driving the two of them down the highway, and she turned into the path of a bus. It's very sad that he died. But it's not a tragedy. The "great suffering" is limited to those who were connected to Mr. Ledger. I think that if anyone who doesn't actually know him is greatly suffering, there might be something unhealthy going on there.

Let's just be careful over the words we choose.

[rossid]

I was upset when Brokeback Mountain came out.

Yesterday I was not particularly sympathetic.

I have forgiven him for that movie.

God's mercy on you folks in Oz.

[The Unknown Gomer]

Let's just be careful over the words we choose.

I think that's the whole conflict in this thread right here, how people are defining what a "tragedy" is. Yes, there's that Oxford definition of tragedy, and yes, things like the innocent people dying in Iraq, or when Katrina came through and wiped out an entire area, that falls under the proper definition of "tragedy".

But there are things that occur on a smaller scale, that while not being a "tragedy" in THAT big grand scheme of things, ARE still tragic to anyone who feels they have that kind of emotional connection to them.

I wouldn't call Heath Ledger's death a tragedy in the grand scheme of things, but I DO think that it's tragic that he clearly died before his time. Same root word, but two different interpretations of it. And, IMHO, we probably don't want to be splitting hairs over the difference, otherwise people may think that their feelings are being questioned when it's just their usage of a given word.

What I find most interesting, and Brian hit on this earlier, is that something like THIS is considered front page news. But that's really a whole other issue, the fascination with celebrities. Celebrity deaths, or breakups, or trips to rehab, that sort of thing, some people just eat that stuff up. Look at Anna Nicole Smith's death. The fluff entertainment shows are STILL talking about that.

The reason that things like this are front page news is because there are enough people who are interested to make it that way. Look how quickly the Heath Ledger threads popped up here on the boards. My mom told me this morning "hey, you know Heath Ledger?..." And I said "Yeah, he's dead", and she was amazed that while it just happened last night that I already knew about it. News travels fast here on the boards.

As long as there is that much interest in it, celebrity happenings will always be front page news.

Just my 2 cents...

[Evanescence]

Wow. In years past, I had thought of different actors who could play my brother David in a film. My first choice was River Phoenix. After his death, I chose Heath Ledger. I think I'll stop choosing.

The article failed to mention a role I really enjoyed ... the eldest son to Mel Gibson's The Patriot.

GREAT role...I forgot about that one...

GREAT movie...

[rossid]

...and I'm having a red tea Rooibos cappucino in his honer. :)

[Salome]

For fear of the Vocab Nazis, I'll say I was saddened by this news. Life is precious. This one obviously cut short. I love to laugh and Heath made me laugh more than once. My condolences and prayers to his family and friends.

[middletree]

For fear of the Vocab Nazis, I'll say I was saddened by this news. Life is precious. This one obviously cut short.

I agree. Tragedy or not, it's a terrible thing.

[sandyandporter]

Let's just be careful over the words we choose.

That's all I was suggesting to you.

[Sam!]

For fear of the Vocab Nazis, I'll say I was saddened by this news. Life is precious. This one obviously cut short. I love to laugh and Heath made me laugh more than once. My condolences and prayers to his family and friends.
I know you mean this partially in jest. But how are we to communicate if the meaning of a word is up to the individual? I'm a literal descendent of Abraham and I have (distant) family who died in the Holocaust. I don't really appreciate the implication that my desire that we use words that reflect what we actually mean is on par with what the Nazis did to millions of innocent Jews.


That's all I was suggesting to you.

That suggestion may not have really been necessary, since it was the point of my post to begin with. Let's say what we mean and mean what we say.

[Gandalf]

As C.S. Lewis explained in the Preface to Mere Christianity, words have meanings:
Far deeper objections may be felt - and have been expressed - against my use of the word Christian to mean one who accepts the common doctrines of Christianity. People ask: 'Who are you, to lay down who is, and who is not a Christian?': or 'May not many a man who cannot believe these doctrines be far more truly a Christian, far closer to the spirit of Christ, than some who do?' Now this objection is in one sense very right, very charitable, very spiritual, very sensitive. It has every available quality except that of being useful. We simply cannot, without disaster, use language as these objectors want us to use it. I will try to make this clear by the history of another, and very much less important, word.

The word 'gentleman' originally meant something recognisable; one who had a coat of arms and some landed property. When you called someone 'a gentleman' you were not paying him a compliment, but merely stating a fact. If you said he was not 'a gentleman' you were not insulting him, but giving information. There was no contradiction in saying that John was a liar and a gentleman; any more than there now is in saying that James is a fool and an M.A. But then there came people who said - so rightly, charitably, spiritually, sensitively, so anything but usefully - 'Ah but surely the important thing about a gentleman is not the coat of arms and the land, but the behaviour? Surely he is the true gentleman who behaves as a gentleman should? Surely in that sense Edward is far more truly a gentleman than John?' They meant well. To be honourable and courteous and brave is of course a far better thing than to have a coat of arms. But it is not the same thing. Worse still, it is not a thing everyone will agree about. To call a man 'a gentleman' in this new, refined sense, becomes, in fact, not a way of giving information about him, but a way of praising him: to deny that he is 'a gentleman' becomes simply a way of insulting him. When a word ceases to be a term of description and becomes merely a term of praise, it no longer tells you facts about the object: it only tells you about the speaker's attitude to that object. (A 'nice' meal only means a meal the speaker likes. (A gentleman, once it has been spiritualised and refined out of its old coarse, objective sense, means hardly more than a man whom the speaker likes. As a result, gentleman is now a useless word. We had lots of terms of approval already, so it was not needed for that use; on the other hand if anyone (say, in a historical work) wants to use it in its old sense, he cannot do so without explanations. It has been spoiled for that purpose.

Now if once we allow people to start spiritualising and refining, or as they might say 'deepening', the sense of the word Christian, it too will speedily become a useless word. In the first place, Christians themselves will never be able to apply it to anyone. It is not for us to say who, in the deepest sense, is or is not close to the spirit of Christ. We do not see into men's hearts. We' cannot judge, and are indeed forbidden to judge. It would be wicked arrogance for us to say that any man is, or is not, a Christian in this refined sense. And obviously a word which we can never apply is not going to he a very useful word. As for the unbelievers, they will no doubt cheerfully use the word in the refined sense. It will become in their mouths simply a term of praise. In calling anyone a Christian they will mean that they think him a good man. But that way of using the word will be no enrichment of the language, for we already have the word good. Meanwhile, the word Christian will have been spoiled for any really useful purpose it might have served.

We must therefore stick to the original, obvious meaning. The name Christians was first given at Antioch (Acts xi. 26) to 'the disciples', to those who accepted the teaching of the apostles. There is no question of its being restricted to those who profited by that teaching as much as they should have. There is no question of its being extended to those who in some refined, spiritual, inward fashion were 'far closer to the spirit of Christ' than the less satisfactory of the disciples. The point is not a theological or moral one. It is only a question of using words so that we can all understand what is being said. When a man who accepts the Christian doctrine lives unworthily of it, it is much clearer to say he is a bad Christian than to say he is not a Christian.
The death of a person who made his living pretending to be other people, for the sake of entertainment, is not a tragedy. Though if the term "tragedy" is used in reference to a play genre (as opposed to comedy) rather than the actual events, then a biographic performance about him could be a tragedy. That sense of the word would be correct if there were such a play.

[AtlBraves]

I still look forward to seeing him as the joker. I think they are finished with the movie filming wise and are just in post production phases. What I hope and pray is that the film didnt cause this. It was said that it looked like an accidental overdose. I had read an article a month or so ago about his role as the joker and it talked about how much he got into the role. He practically became the joker for the time he was filming to best act out the role. While I don't think it happened I remember praying at the time that the joker role didnt affect him mentally in any way and I hope that him taking on the role didn't messed with his head in any way.

[Jesuslove]

I was upset when Brokeback Mountain came out.

Yesterday I was not particularly sympathetic.

I have forgiven him for that movie.

God's mercy on you folks in Oz.


why would you feel like you have to forgive someone for a role they played? that makes no sense.

[Jesuslove]

As C.S. Lewis explained in the Preface to Mere Christianity, words have meanings:

The death of a person who made his living pretending to be other people, for the sake of entertainment, is not a tragedy. Though if the term "tragedy" is used in reference to a play genre (as opposed to comedy) rather than the actual events, then a biographic performance about him could be a tragedy. That sense of the word would be correct if there were such a play.

It's a tragedy when anyone dies at an early age. It is particularly a great tragedy that someone with so much talent, is lost at an early age.

[Jesuslove]

I have spent last night and this morning thanking God I'm alive. In 2004 I was addicted to prescription pills. I was taking in excess of 40 pills per day. There is no earthly reason that I'm alive today. Whenever I hear of someone overdosing my first thought is always, "how many pills did they take?".

To Sam and Brian, it IS a tragedy (even by your own definition "tragedy: an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress (Oxford English Dictionary)") when someone has a substance abuse problem that results in their death. It's a daily tragedy to THEM and to those that love them. So try and have some compassion. No one has said his death is more tragic than anyone else's. I'm not sure where your anger comes from but.... some things are better left unsaid. Isn't there a Third Day song about that? ;)

Good for you for getting help and recognizing you had an addiction. Many think of addicts as lowlifes, but some of the strongest people I know in the world are ex-addicts. It takes strength to stand up against addiction, and it takes courage to talk about it. God bless you and your family!

[Sam!]

I'm sure Jesuslove did not mean to imply this, but just in case anybody has taken it that way: I do not think any less of Heath Ledger for any substance abuse problem he may or may not have had. I do not think anybody with an addiction is a lowlife, or without value. I am not happy or even indifferent regarding Mr. Ledger's death. I am sad, because it does appear that he was quite talented in a way that brought pleasure to many people. But everyone who dies young dies with talent. Though it may be tragic in the lives of some people who did truly know him (if there are any such people) and certainly for his daughter (who is now fatherless) the death itself is not inherently tragic any meaningful sense of the word.

[middletree]

Oh my.


http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=34080&cat=2

[Jason]

Oh my.


http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=34080&cat=2

Now that's tragic.

[Sam!]

Now that's tragic.
Agreed. God hates all the people that had anything to do with BB mountain? Don't think you'll find that one in the Bible.

[sandyandporter]

Good for you for getting help and recognizing you had an addiction. Many think of addicts as lowlifes, but some of the strongest people I know in the world are ex-addicts. It takes strength to stand up against addiction, and it takes courage to talk about it. God bless you and your family!

Thanks! I appreciate that. I actually lost my (ex)husband over it so the blow was two-fold. Some people don't mean "in sickness and in health, til death do us part". :rolleyes: Of course he (my ex) also doesn't believe in God or Jesus so not a big surprise!

[sandyandporter]

Oh my.


http://www.transworldnews.com/NewsStory.aspx?id=34080&cat=2

This kind of thing makes me cringe. Unfortunately "Christians" in general get sterotyped by these fringe, radical groups behaviors.

[TN3Dmom]

Thanks! I appreciate that. I actually lost my (ex)husband over it so the blow was two-fold. Some people don't mean "in sickness and in health, til death do us part". :rolleyes: Of course he (my ex) also doesn't believe in God or Jesus so not a big surprise!

My prayers for you, Sandy. It's obvious you have come a long way, but I've heard that's always an ongoing struggle. Kudos to you for being so strong.

As for the funeral picketers, that sickens me to the core. Have some respect for this man's family and loved ones!!!:mad:

[Salome]

I know you mean this partially in jest. But how are we to communicate if the meaning of a word is up to the individual? I'm a literal descendent of Abraham and I have (distant) family who died in the Holocaust. I don't really appreciate the implication that my desire that we use words that reflect what we actually mean is on par with what the Nazis did to millions of innocent Jews.

Naturally. And I appreciate your consistency.

While I agree that "say what you mean and mean what you say" is a good rule to follow in most instances, I think it's petty to call people on their vocabulary when they are expressing remorse over an unfortunate incident.

[EmmoGomer]

I agree with you Rhonda. This picket thing is just sickening.

[Debbie]

OK, it's sad that a 28 year old man died, but no sadder than when a 28-year old hillbilly blows himself up in a meth lab and leaves several children to follow in his footsteps, or a homeless guy falls off a bridge while sleeping and his relatives are left to deal with the aftermath. How is it a tragedy?

It's not as if he were a national leader. This is a guy who made his living pretending to be other people, and didn't contribute anything to society beyond a few hours of entertainment. That's not to say he wasn't a valuable person, but his death is no more tragic than anyone else's.

It's a sad commentary on our culture that this is front-page news... The biggest impact on society is that ... they'll have to recast the Joker in the new Batman movie? It's terrible for his family, but ... really. Tragic? I disagree.

In response, I decided to check the front page of the Tampa Tribune today and guess what, not a word about it. I did find it, just not there.

I am not unsympathetic to anyone who has lost a loved one or any less saddened when I hear tragic news. When someone dies, there is no difference, regardless of the accident or tradegy however you choose to phrase it.

The difference here is, I have not been exposed to or know every last hillbilly or homeless person. My love for them is shown in other ways. However, we all love entertainment, the better the entertainment, the greater the love and the greater future anticipation of what they will do next. From what I know, HL was not a world leader, nor am I. If we were, would it make our passing any more tragic to our familes and anyone exposed to our work? No. He is a great actor and can take on the role of the person/character whom he plays. I have enjoyed many of his movies, namely A Knights Tale, The Four Feathers and Brother's Grimm. We have invited him into our family room and sat down and watched his movies over and over again. Why, because they are that good. He is a great actor. Now, feeling as though we have spent sometime with him in a distant sort of way, we will miss him and his work.

Me personally, I am very saddened that his little daughter will probably have no memory of her Daddy what so ever....tell me that is not tragic. His family in Australia probably did not find out about this because someone came over, sat with them, prayed with them and helped them through it, but rather the same way we all did, by watching the dang TV. Tell me that is not tragic.

After watching him over the years, he seems to have stood out from many other actors. A role model persay. Granted I do not know all there is to know about him, however, unless proved otherwise...This is a tradegy all the way around. I can also sympathize with his family, losing a child, no matter how old the child is something I would not call anything less than a tradegy. The pain is overwhelming and unbearable. Especially when you did not see it coming...

Just my point of view. Differs from yours, but that is OK!

[Jason]

In response, I decided to check the front page of the Tampa Tribune today and guess what, not a word about it. I did find it, just not there.

I am not unsympathetic to anyone who has lost a loved one or any less saddened when I hear tragic news. When someone dies, there is no difference, regardless of the accident or tradegy however you choose to phrase it.

The difference here is, I have not been exposed to or know every last hillbilly or homeless person. My love for them is shown in other ways. However, we all love entertainment, the better the entertainment, the greater the love and the greater future anticipation of what they will do next. From what I know, HL was not a world leader, nor am I. If we were, would it make our passing any more tragic to our familes and anyone exposed to our work? No. He is a great actor and can take on the role of the person/character whom he plays. I have enjoyed many of his movies, namely A Knights Tale, The Four Feathers and Brother's Grimm. We have invited him into our family room and sat down and watched his movies over and over again. Why, because they are that good. He is a great actor. Now, feeling as though we have spent sometime with him in a distant sort of way, we will miss him and his work.

Me personally, I am very saddened that his little daughter will probably have no memory of her Daddy what so ever....tell me that is not tragic. His family in Australia probably did not find out about this because someone came over, sat with them, prayed with them and helped them through it, but rather the same way we all did, by watching the dang TV. Tell me that is not tragic.

After watching him over the years, he seems to have stood out from many other actors. A role model persay. Granted I do not know all there is to know about him, however, unless proved otherwise...This is a tradegy all the way around. I can also sympathize with his family, losing a child, no matter how old the child is something I would not call anything less than a tradegy. The pain is overwhelming and unbearable. Especially when you did not see it coming...

Just my point of view. Differs from yours, but that is OK!

Wise words.

[Jason]

I was wondering if any of the Aussies had any comments on his portrayal of Ned Kelly?

[Gandalf]

In response, I decided to check the front page of the Tampa Tribune today and guess what, not a word about it. I did find it, just not there.
It's not on the front page of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch either, but it is the lead story on both FoxNews.com and CNN.com. As I saw posted on another board:
Its not news....
Its CNN.com. Heath Ledger is the main uber-story right now on CNN.com. While people are panicking that our economy is about to not grow as fast as it has been lately, CEO's of failing companies are getting huge bonuses, people are dying all around the world, Gaza is making holes in their wall to Egypt, a presidential contest is under way.....but Heath Ledger dying is of utmost importance!!!!!

Oh....and Brittany Spears and Lindsay Lohan are important too....and Paris Hilton...just sayin
I am not unsympathetic to anyone who has lost a loved one or any less saddened when I hear tragic news. When someone dies, there is no difference, regardless of the accident or tradegy however you choose to phrase it.
I'm not unsympathetic towards his family either. It's good to sympathize or empathize with them, etc. It's certainly both an important and unfortunate event in the lives of his daughter and others.

I just don't think it should be national news, and I don't think "tragedy" is an appropriate term. Tragedy is defined as either "a medieval narrative poem or tale typically describing the downfall of a great man" or "a disastrous event". (Disaster = "a sudden calamitous event bringing great damage, loss, or destruction"). That doesn't fit. It's simply not the right word to describe it. The event is sad. It's unfortunate for his family. Calling it tragic, however, unless as obvious hyperbole, only makes the word "tragic" meaningless.

Other than the linguistic aspect, I do think it's a sad commentary on our culture that actors are revered and idolized to the point that it's "news" when they do anything stupid or anything happens to them. Really, shouldn't it matter more to me if the cashier at the grocery store or the lady who cuts my hair suffered some misfortune than some actor whom I've never met, nor had any interaction with whatsoever?

Sure, it's disappointing that we won't be entertained by this guy in future movies. But really ... the lead story on the major national media websites?

[Debbie]

tragedy: an event causing great suffering, destruction, and distress (Oxford English Dictionary)

I don't think this can really be claimed as a tragedy, and to do so simply erodes at the meaning of the word.

Perfect, tradegy is an event which causes great suffering. For his family, this is a tradegy, for his little daughter, this will be a life long tradegy for her and yes, not knowing your Daddy will cause suffering, loosing your Daddy will cause suffering. According the definition provided, this is a tradegy.

How do I fit into the equasion: My love for all people to whom I know and I that I don't know. A very wise person told me once: I suffer for the family I did not know because they loved someone I loved.

My point is not to erode anyone's text book enterpretation of terms and phrases and how they are used or should be used, nor will I erode the event at hand to anything less than what it is.

My point is simply this: We are expressing sadness for what has happened to Heath Ledger and his family. Our expression of that sadness will be said in many different ways by all who post here. This thread is about Heath Ledger, not the Hillbilly who blew himself up in a meth lab, nor the homeless man who fell off the bridge while sleeping. That doesn't mean that we have forgotten them any less.

[Gandalf]

Great: "notably large in size" "large in number or measure" "remarkable in magnitude" ... i.e. a tragedy = something having an intensely negative effect on a multitude of people.

Hurricane Katrina was a tragedy in that sense.
Hamlet is a tragedy in the literary sense.
Heath Ledger dying is neither. It's sad, and it's terrible for his family. Neither Sam nor I is trying to downplay that. It's simply not a tragedy. We've probably gone far enough down that rabbit trail, but ...

[sandyandporter]

Great: "notably large in size" "large in number or measure" "remarkable in magnitude" ... i.e. a tragedy = something having an intensely negative effect on a multitude of people.

Hurricane Katrina was a tragedy in that sense.
Hamlet is a tragedy in the literary sense.
Heath Ledger dying is neither. It's sad, and it's terrible for his family, but it's simply not a tragedy.

We get it, really we do. I think though it would be more appropriate in this thread http://www.thirdday.com/boards/showthread.php?t=100370&highlight=pet+peeves.

That way people who want to discuss sadness over this can do so based on emotions and not grammar. No disrespect intended.... really.

[Salome]

Really, shouldn't it matter more to me if the cashier at the grocery store or the lady who cuts my hair suffered some misfortune than some actor whom I've never met, nor had any interaction with whatsoever?

Absolutely. It should matter more to YOU if the lady who cuts your hair suffers misfortune than H.Ledger's passing. A childhood friend's father passed away this week. I didn't share that with anyone here because no one here knew him. We don't have that in common. Here we have Heath Ledger in common because most of us know who he is and probably have been entertained by him. While entertainers may not provide as important a service as a doctor per se, they certainly provide laughter, contentedness, soul searching, thought provoking, or stress relief. I don't dismiss any of that. And certainly life would not be as enjoyable.

[Debbie]

I just don't think it should be national news, and I don't think "tragedy" is an appropriate term. Tragedy is defined as either "a medieval narrative poem or tale typically describing the downfall of a great man" or "a disastrous event". (Disaster = "a sudden calamitous event bringing great damage, loss, or destruction"). That doesn't fit. It's simply not the right word to describe it. The event is sad. It's unfortunate for his family. Calling it tragic, however, unless as obvious hyperbole, only makes the word "tragic" meaningless.

I don't think it wrong to use the word tragic in the case of "anyones" death. I can relate to that thru my personal suffering and loss of loved ones. To describe the suffering, it feels as though they have taken your skin with them.

Other than the linguistic aspect, I do think it's a sad commentary on our culture that actors are revered and idolized to the point that it's "news" when they do anything stupid or anything happens to them.
It's national news because he was a successful actor. He was known by more than he knew, this is true. Because the news media is what it is, that is not my job nor am I responsible. I can assure you, that making the news doesn't mean you are idolized. For HL, I am sure there are a few wackos out there who do just that. For me, I enjoyed the entertainment he delivered. For the most part, was good clean family fun.

Really, shouldn't it matter more to me if the cashier at the grocery store or the lady who cuts my hair suffered some misfortune than some actor whom I've never met, nor had any interaction with whatsoever?
In the relationships that you mention, the sadness is much greater than that of an actor whom you have not interacted with. It does not mean he did not touch my life in some sort of way because we never met or touched.


Sure, it's disappointing that we won't be entertained by this guy in future movies. But really ... the lead story on the major national media websites?
I don't agree that it is the lead story. I would agree with that it is one of the many lead stories in the current national news.

[Gandalf]

I didn't mean to imply that our culture's idolization of celebrity (not necessarily individuals, but the concept at least) is your fault. :)
I don't agree that it is the lead story. I would agree with that it is one of the many lead stories in the current national news.
It is the lead story on CNN.com, and the most prominently positioned of the three lead stories on FoxNews.com. It's not prominently placed on the newspaper-based sites (USAToday.com, etc.), but it is on the TV-based sites. I guess the media is worse about that than the press ...

[Healing Oil]

I have forgiven him for that movie.



Right. Because he needed your forgiveness.

And as far as his death being tragic or not, if there are people amongst these boards that find it tragic, sad and depressing, then leave them be to feel that way. I find it frustratingly rude to tell someone how they ought to view someone's death.

I personally find it tragic that this man may have not been saved. That's probably a real possibility. And we now have a fatherless 2 year old baby girl. That, in my view is very sad.

I gaurentee if Heath was not saved, this was truly a tragedy in God's eyes.

[Beachcomber]

Unbelievable, *walks away shaking head*!!!!!!!!!!!!:(

[rossid]

why would you feel like you have to forgive someone for a role they played? that makes no sense.
It makes sense to me and God.

Thanks Britt.

[Whiteheart]

Unbelievable, *walks away shaking head*!!!!!!!!!!!!:(



Yup..I'm with you.

[Godgrl Gomer]

I cried for a solid half hour yesterday....chest heaving, snot flowing, agonising howling cry.
Tears trickle down my cheeks now as I write this.

To me and many Australians, Heath Ledger was not a Hollywood Celebrity. He was a young man of extraordinary talent and actually 'made it'.
One thing that most dont seem to understand about Aussies is when one of us succeeds, we all do. When one of us falls, it affects us all and we rally together for one of our team mates or family have fallen. Bit like the Gomer family, but on a greater scale.
My immediate thoughts was about Heath's soul. Then his baby girl. Then his family. And again his soul. And then how blessed I am to be alive....
So do I mourn Heath because he is an Hollywood Actor. No way. He was and is an Australian who did us proud.

There are comments about Heath's death not being a tragedy. Perhaps not, compared to the overall picture. And I knew it wouldnt be long for someone to mention that a homeless person is just as important, yet they dont hit the news. All valid points. (speaking in general and NOT referring to anyone) And I have checked myself in my mourning as to why the news hit me like a sucker punch in the chest.

Also the very fact that Heath is famous should not detract from his death. Its as if, due to his social status, that those who mourn him are to be mocked. That is as unfair as those who die anonymously with no one to mourn them.
Let me put it to you.....God forbid...should anything happen to Third Day. How would you like it if people scoffed and said that you are heart broken simply because they are celebrities? Your pain would be justified and only worsened by the scoffers. See, brought closer to home, its a bit different.

I would appreciate it that those who are in genuine mourning to be allowed to mourn. It is their right and their justification is their own.

For the record.....Brokeback Mountain was one of the most amazing, deep, insightful and artistically brilliant pieces of work I have ever seen.
Sure I know gay relationships are wrong in the eyes of God, But why cant their story be told? Why cant the agonies be expressed? The movie clearly showed that it was due to such antagonistic attitudes held by society prevented either 'person' to receive help & come to terms with who they are and from a Christian Counsellor point of view, receive true healing and deliverance. Instead they were forced to live a lie that ultimately destroyed more lives....
Some would say its just a movie....
Well art imitates life.
Perhaps there is a message in that.

[Godgrl Gomer]

Just heard on the news that Heath attended a Christian School. So perhaps, just perhaps, Heath's soul was not in danger.
What cheered me was the revealing of some very private things he did in his local community. Apparently he funded the arts faculty at his old high school and provided personal teaching & tutoring for Drama Students. How cool would that be...to have had Heath as your Drama teacher?:D

That made me smile.

[Healing Oil]

It makes sense to me and God.

Thanks Britt.

I was being sarcastic.

[Godgrl Gomer]

Well....I suppose when someone angers & hurts us...whether they intend to or not, it is up to the one who is offended to forgive that person. Otherwise a root of bitterness can take root in one's heart.

Perhaps this is what he means?

[Yoshi]

I have followed this thread with interest... As well as the wider story.. and I must say there are a number of people who have disappointed me here.

Who are we to judge? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

No one knows what happened - not even the coroner at this stage - so unless someone was in his room and saw it, stop speculating. It's that speculation that brings more pain to the family and loved ones.

As part of my job as a youth worker, I'm generally required to promote safe sex and using a condom, and harm minimisation.. So I do it.. am I then a bad person because I promote something that is not Biblical? Heath's an actor.. He had a job, he did it.. Just because his job happened to be something the Bible doesn't consider appropriate, there are a number of people who have slammed him... and threatened to picket his funeral? For crying out loud!!! PHARISEES! You're just as condemned in the Bible as homosexuality!

Get back to loving people who need to be loved... IE. EVERYONE. Even people who make lifestyle choices we don't approve of. You never know, the love of God might just change their mind. Right now, all they get is the hate of Christians.. Is it no wonder they're so violent and passionate about what they believe.

Heath Ledger was a great actor with a promising future whose life has been tragically cut short in circumstances no one fully understands yet. Stop arguing semantics, and vocabulary, and start praying for all the souls still here who need to know God.

[Jesuslove]

Right. Because he needed your forgiveness.

And as far as his death being tragic or not, if there are people amongst these boards that find it tragic, sad and depressing, then leave them be to feel that way. I find it frustratingly rude to tell someone how they ought to view someone's death.

I agree. Everyone mourns in their own way. As for the forgiveness part, I don't get it. He's an actor playing a role. If someone played the role of a murderer, or an obese person, or another type of sinner, this wouldn't even come up.

[Jesuslove]

It makes sense to me and God.

Thanks Britt.

um, no. It doesn't make sense to me, OR my God.

[Jesuslove]

I have followed this thread with interest... As well as the wider story.. and I must say there are a number of people who have disappointed me here.

Who are we to judge? Let he who is without sin cast the first stone.

No one knows what happened - not even the coroner at this stage - so unless someone was in his room and saw it, stop speculating. It's that speculation that brings more pain to the family and loved ones.

As part of my job as a youth worker, I'm generally required to promote safe sex and using a condom, and harm minimisation.. So I do it.. am I then a bad person because I promote something that is not Biblical? Heath's an actor.. He had a job, he did it.. Just because his job happened to be something the Bible doesn't consider appropriate, there are a number of people who have slammed him... and threatened to picket his funeral? For crying out loud!!! PHARISEES! You're just as condemned in the Bible as homosexuality!

Get back to loving people who need to be loved... IE. EVERYONE. Even people who make lifestyle choices we don't approve of. You never know, the love of God might just change their mind. Right now, all they get is the hate of Christians.. Is it no wonder they're so violent and passionate about what they believe.

Heath Ledger was a great actor with a promising future whose life has been tragically cut short in circumstances no one fully understands yet. Stop arguing semantics, and vocabulary, and start praying for all the souls still here who need to know God.

I couldn't have said it better!

[TN3Dmom]

For the record.....Brokeback Mountain was one of the most amazing, deep, insightful and artistically brilliant pieces of work I have ever seen.
Sure I know gay relationships are wrong in the eyes of God, But why cant their story be told? Why cant the agonies be expressed? The movie clearly showed that it was due to such antagonistic attitudes held by society prevented either 'person' to receive help & come to terms with who they are and from a Christian Counsellor point of view, receive true healing and deliverance. Instead they were forced to live a lie that ultimately destroyed more lives....
Some would say its just a movie....
Well art imitates life.
Perhaps there is a message in that.

I was certain this would get shredded to pieces if I wrote it here, but you said exactly what I was thinking, Joan. I loved that film, and it was a beautiful love story. It might not be a love any of you understand, but someone very close to me is gay, and I have a hard time reconciling what is right and wrong, and understanding all that surrounds the whole stigma. All I know is that movie helped me to see the world through the eyes of this person, and all I can say is it must be hard to live your life in fear of being who you are. For that I am thankful to Heath and Jake. My sympathies are with his family. And if anyone wants to attack my statement feel free, but I am not going to get into any further discussion on the subject. This is a thread about mourning a loss that is indeed tragic!

[Godgrl Gomer]

TN3Dmom:I was certain this would get shredded to pieces if I wrote it here, but you said exactly what I was thinking, Joan.
I am still waiting.;) But thats ok:cool: I got no more to say on the subject.
I get where others are coming from. I just needed to express a differing POV. (I'm in one of those manic moods today...can ya tell:P )

I have a Christian friend who is heavily involved in the Body. He is Gay. Not 'practicing' and only very few people know. If he were to come out and 'confess' he would be ostracised by the folk. Sad but true.
Right now he is working through his spiritual battle in understanding who he is in Christ and how God intended him to be. God works powerfully through this man...very powerfully.
So yeah....he who is without sin, cast the first stone.


Jesuslove: He's an actor playing a role. If someone played the role of a murderer, or an obese person, or another type of sinner, this wouldn't even come up.
Right on!

[Jesuslove]

I was certain this would get shredded to pieces if I wrote it here, but you said exactly what I was thinking, Joan. I loved that film, and it was a beautiful love story. It might not be a love any of you understand, but someone very close to me is gay, and I have a hard time reconciling what is right and wrong, and understanding all that surrounds the whole stigma. All I know is that movie helped me to see the world through the eyes of this person, and all I can say is it must be hard to live your life in fear of being who you are. For that I am thankful to Heath and Jake. My sympathies are with his family. And if anyone wants to attack my statement feel free, but I am not going to get into any further discussion on the subject. This is a thread about mourning a loss that is indeed tragic!

This willl probably get shredded, but I will add my comment. Brokeback is an amazing film. To me, it wasn't as much about love or homosexuality, as it was about human emotion. The overriding message was to live and love without fear, lest life and love may pass you by. Heath and Jake were amazing as were Michelle Williams and Anne Hathaway.

As a person, I try not to judge others, as I myself don't like to be judged. All I know is that I love the Lord, and the Lord loves me, and love is contageous. The more we love each other and not judge each other, the better we will all be. Let's talk about what brings us together; not what divides us. Leave judgement to God.

[Debbie]

No shreds yet. ;)

Many a tribute this afternoon and tonite on TV.

I thought I heard on TMZ, think they are worse than the Poparazzi (spellcheck)btw, that Jack Nicholson warned Heath of the Joker roll but did not catch anymore of the story. Did anyone else catch that??

[middletree]

At the risk of sounding like a fence-sitter, I see both sides of the "tragedy" as having merit. On one hand, it is a terrible thing when a young man with so much potential, and who also has an innocent daughter, loses his life. I think the word tragedy is appropriate, regardless of whether or not it fits perfectly into a dictionary definition.

On the other hand, Gandalf is correct when he says that we (Americans in general) have our priorities out of whack. In fact, I was thinking about this the other day with the local furor over Tony Romo's weekend in Mexico. After the Cowboys lost, a small but vocal minority here essentially said "Why is Romo doing something meaningless with his time? He should be spending his time going over game film. His mind should be on what's important." Of course, these people mean "football" when they say "important."

The reality, of course, is that football is no more or less important than a vacation trip. It's not like Romo is a cancer researcher shirking his duties.

On another note: Rossid, why do you single out this particular movie? I acknowledge that it presents a certain sexual sin in a positive light, but so do about a million other movies, regarding other sexual sins.

Have you forgiven Tom Hanks for making "Bachelor Party?" I can tell you first hand that that movie glorified debauchery and led to more sinful behavior in my heart than Brokeback ever could. (Tom Hanks should also be asking forgiveness for "The Money Pit". It didn't have any graphic sex scenes. It just sucked and I want my money back)

Have you forgiven Sarah Jessica Parker for Sex and the City? How about Billy Bob Thornton and Halle Berry for the graphic sex scene in Monster's Ball? Or Don Cheadle for that scene in Crash? I'm just curious how you draw the line.

[TN3Dmom]

As a person, I try not to judge others, as I myself don't like to be judged. All I know is that I love the Lord, and the Lord loves me, and love is contageous. The more we love each other and not judge each other, the better we will all be. Let's talk about what brings us together; not what divides us. Leave judgement to God.

Funny, that after reading all the controvery on this thread today, I popped over to the blog of Mr. Mark Lee, where he is discussing the new selection for his book club. This was taken from his blog.

From the UnChristian official book website:

Christians are supposed to represent Christ to the world. But according to the latest report card, something has gone terribly wrong. Using descriptions like “hypocritical,” “insensitive,” and “judgmental,” young Americans share an impression of Christians that’s nothing short of . . . unChristian. Groundbreaking research into the perceptions of sixteen- to twenty-nine-year-olds reveals that Christians have taken several giant steps backward in one of their most important assignments. The surprising details of the study, commissioned by Fermi Project and conducted by The Barna Group, are presented with uncompromising honesty in unChristian. Find out why these negative perceptions exist, learn how to reverse them in a Christlike manner, and discover practical examples of how Christians can positively contribute to culture.


That sounds like something I think we all could benefit from learning. I try not to make bold statements in defense or in condemnation of any particular "hot button issues". Some may think it makes me a weak Christian, and I do believe one should stand up for the things they believe in, but it's the self-righteous finger pointing that causes the perceptions mentioned above. I apoligize for the slight hi-jack. Just thought this was a timely message that we all needed to hear today. He's wise, that Mark Lee. Indeed, the prophet. :D

[Buttabean]

No offense to anyone who posted here, either positive or negative, but you all drive me nuts! Why can't we just say something like, "Heath Ledger died, please pray for his family," and be done with it? If someone considers it a tragedy, who are we to tell them it isn't? You don't know anything about these people you're insulting, so just let it be. :eek:

Current events isn't about arguing with each other for days about this or that little detail that doesn't really apply to the topic at hand. It means sharing the most recent occurrences with the rest of us. Since we're getting so picky on definitions, I figure you all might need that one re-told to you. ;)

[EmmoGomer]

I'm still sad :(. I don't care what anyone has to say - a young fella died - it's sad. He more than likely didn't know the Lord and is facing hell - thet IS tragic.
It makes me want to get out there and shout the 'good news' from the roof tops!!
If Heath's death makes others think about their own mortality, well, maybe something good will come of it.

[Healing Oil]

Our God is an amazing God. Since the news of Heath's death, something has been stirring in my spirit. I've seen a number of celebrities die and none such as this have actually touched me this deep. Since yesterday Ive had a very depressed spirit and I didnt know why. I prayed for his family, his daughter, his soul.

Tonight at my prayer meeting, a woman (whom I love greatly) was praying and she said "Brittany, I feel the Lord is showing me something about you. I see you reading a newspaper and there is a hole cut out of the middle of it. Im not sure but I think this means that God has given you the discernment to know what are lies and what is truth in the news." I put my face in my hands and just laughed, while also getting choked up. She continued "And Im pretty sure God is giving you confirmation right now."

I replied "Im not sure if this has anything to do with that but...ever since yesterday and Heath Ledger's death, Ive had a spirit of sorrow and depression. I felt so deep down that the speculation behind his death was completely false." She continued "I saw his name written on that newspaper."

She advised me that the Lord was trying to speak to me and that I needed to pray it through until I found peace about the situation. This was a gift that God had given me.

Im not a medical examiner, coroner, doctor or whatever...but I feel confident that God gave me a tremendous gift yesterday at the hearing of Heath's death. I weeped for the situation, his daughter, Michelle, and the family tonight in that prayer meeting. I prayed that Our Father would take the place of Heath in Matilda's life. Im not going to go into anymore specifics than what I have but, I truly believe that his death was NOT intentional. It might have been brought on by behaviours or a heavy work load, but it wasnt suicide.

Praise you Jesus.

[middletree]

Our God is an amazing God. Since the news of Heath's death, something has been stirring in my spirit...

Wow. Thanks for sharing this.

[rossid]

Just heard on the news that Heath attended a Christian School. So perhaps, just perhaps, Heath's soul was not in danger.
What cheered me was the revealing of some very private things he did in his local community. Apparently he funded the arts faculty at his old high school and provided personal teaching & tutoring for Drama Students. How cool would that be...to have had Heath as your Drama teacher?:D

That made me smile.

I did not know that - encouraging.

I was being sarcastic.

I though you might be but wasn't sure.

um, no. It doesn't make sense to me, OR my God.

We are different people with the same God.

On another note: Rossid, why do you single out this particular movie? I acknowledge that it presents a certain sexual sin in a positive light, but so do about a million other movies, regarding other sexual sins.

Have you forgiven Tom Hanks for making "Bachelor Party?" I can tell you first hand that that movie glorified debauchery and led to more sinful behavior in my heart than Brokeback ever could. (Tom Hanks should also be asking forgiveness for "The Money Pit". It didn't have any graphic sex scenes. It just sucked and I want my money back)

Have you forgiven Sarah Jessica Parker for Sex and the City? How about Billy Bob Thornton and Halle Berry for the graphic sex scene in Monster's Ball? Or Don Cheadle for that scene in Crash? I'm just curious how you draw the line.Becase that movie has bothered my spirit from day one.

I don't remember Bachelor Party. I don't have cable. I rented Monster's Ball saw that there was nudity and exchanged. I did not see Crash. Just like many people, perhaps not all, my line as subjective. But BM, SatC, and MB, all are over that line.

Whatever you think of my feelings, and I think feelings and opinions can be shared on this thread. We don't need a separate righteous, "Oh these dead people were sinners", thread.

This was mentioned on the radio and was also encouraged.

That encouragement is needed because I feel bad too.

http://www.daughtryofficial.com/node/274928

Prayers for Heath Ledgers' family
JANUARY 22, 2008, 10:52 pm

Your vote:

20406080100
Average: 5 (42 votes)

Although I do not know Heath Ledger personally, my heart is broken for his family tonight as I hear the news of his death. Maybe it's because he was my age. It's always hard when someone dies but it's even harder when they go so early. So unexpected. So much life left to live. So many things left to do on this Earth....but the main thing that hit me so hard was thinking of his lil girl without her daddy.
My heart hurts for her and the rest of his family. My sincere prayers go out to them as they deal with this life altering time. They've suffered a great loss and could use some words of encouragement to offset all the media. Feel free to leave your thoughts and prayers here. Who knows they just might see it and it just might lift their spirit and help them through this tough time.
Good night and God bless-Chris

In memory of Heath Ledger
04/04/79 - 01/22/08

[Debbie]

Our God is an amazing God. Since the news of Heath's death, something has been stirring in my spirit.

I needed to pray it through until I found peace about the situation. This was a gift that God had given me.

Praise you Jesus.

A great message for us all. It is tragic when this happens to anyone with a drug problem, but even more troubling to someone who appeared to have not had one at all, but should have taken some time off for himself. Heath seemed to be a very deep person. One who stood out to many. I have enjoyed hearing others folks stories and their feelings. Ecspecially those who confirm what was right with Heath, as we suspected all along. I believe we should use our God given gift for all the speculators who have no desire other than to distort what is good.


Im not a medical examiner, coroner, doctor or whatever...but I feel confident that God gave me a tremendous gift yesterday at the hearing of Heath's death. I weeped for the situation, his daughter, Michelle, and the family tonight in that prayer meeting. I prayed that Our Father would take the place of Heath in Matilda's life. Im not going to go into anymore specifics than what I have but, I truly believe that his death was NOT intentional. It might have been brought on by behaviours or a heavy work load, but it wasnt suicide.

I am with you on this one.

[rossid]

..Matilda's... Matilde or Mathilde - not sure exactly which... :P

[Tracey]

I cried for a solid half hour yesterday....chest heaving, snot flowing, agonising howling cry.
Tears trickle down my cheeks now as I write this.

To me and many Australians, Heath Ledger was not a Hollywood Celebrity. He was a young man of extraordinary talent and actually 'made it'.
One thing that most dont seem to understand about Aussies is when one of us succeeds, we all do. When one of us falls, it affects us all and we rally together for one of our team mates or family have fallen. Bit like the Gomer family, but on a greater scale.
My immediate thoughts was about Heath's soul. Then his baby girl. Then his family. And again his soul. And then how blessed I am to be alive....
So do I mourn Heath because he is an Hollywood Actor. No way. He was and is an Australian who did us proud.

There are comments about Heath's death not being a tragedy. Perhaps not, compared to the overall picture. And I knew it wouldnt be long for someone to mention that a homeless person is just as important, yet they dont hit the news. All valid points. (speaking in general and NOT referring to anyone) And I have checked myself in my mourning as to why the news hit me like a sucker punch in the chest.

Also the very fact that Heath is famous should not detract from his death. Its as if, due to his social status, that those who mourn him are to be mocked. That is as unfair as those who die anonymously with no one to mourn them.
Let me put it to you.....God forbid...should anything happen to Third Day. How would you like it if people scoffed and said that you are heart broken simply because they are celebrities? Your pain would be justified and only worsened by the scoffers. See, brought closer to home, its a bit different.

I would appreciate it that those who are in genuine mourning to be allowed to mourn. It is their right and their justification is their own.

For the record.....Brokeback Mountain was one of the most amazing, deep, insightful and artistically brilliant pieces of work I have ever seen.
Sure I know gay relationships are wrong in the eyes of God, But why cant their story be told? Why cant the agonies be expressed? The movie clearly showed that it was due to such antagonistic attitudes held by society prevented either 'person' to receive help & come to terms with who they are and from a Christian Counsellor point of view, receive true healing and deliverance. Instead they were forced to live a lie that ultimately destroyed more lives....
Some would say its just a movie....
Well art imitates life.
Perhaps there is a message in that.

I totally agree with ya...God be with his family

[Healing Oil]

Wow. Thanks for sharing this.
To be honest, I didn't know if I was going to but...as the Lord leads right?

[Godgrl Gomer]

Healing Oil.....thank you so much for sharing! *hugs*

Like you, I have heard of other's deaths and felt sad but left relatively unaffected. For some strange reason, Heath's death has left me in a true state of mourning. I too had a very depressed spirit. It only lifted late yesterday afternoon, after talking with the Lord. (it wasnt the 1st time we had spoken on this topic) Then finally a peace came over me and I can finally let it go. My primary concern was if Heath's name is written in the Book of Life. Strange, but I havent 'cared' or been concerned about others and where their names are. Odd.
I dont understand why I have grieved so hard. It has felt as though a family member has died.

I too believe that my grieving has been a gift from God, but I have no clue as to how its a gift. Healing Oil, would you be willing to talk about this over PM? How can such genuine pain be a gift? I would have prayed for Heath's daughter, Matilda, anyway....I dont get it. I know my husband would have preferred his wife to not be weeping for a dead stranger for days on end......:confused: :o

[kiwisongbird]

Well, interesting thread...

As a New Zealander I totally understand Joan's point of view... it's the same for us Kiwis - when one succeeds we all do... and when an Australian makes it in Hollywood we also feel a bit of Antipodean pride about that too - although we do get pretty hacked off (ticked) when a Kiwi is called an Australian!

Heath's death has affected me as well - 28 and so talented - some of it is selfish, I was enjoying his career - I hope that the coroner's report comes out public soon...

[clemsontigers23]

Funny, that after reading all the controvery on this thread today, I popped over to the blog of Mr. Mark Lee, where he is discussing the new selection for his book club. This was taken from his blog.

From the UnChristian official book website:

Christians are supposed to represent Christ to the world. But according to the latest report card, something has gone terribly wrong. Using descriptions like “hypocritical,” “insensitive,” and “judgmental,” young Americans share an impression of Christians that’s nothing short of . . . unChristian. Groundbreaking research into the perceptions of sixteen- to twenty-nine-year-olds reveals that Christians have taken several giant steps backward in one of their most important assignments. The surprising details of the study, commissioned by Fermi Project and conducted by The Barna Group, are presented with uncompromising honesty in unChristian. Find out why these negative perceptions exist, learn how to reverse them in a Christlike manner, and discover practical examples of how Christians can positively contribute to culture.


That sounds like something I think we all could benefit from learning. I try not to make bold statements in defense or in condemnation of any particular "hot button issues". Some may think it makes me a weak Christian, and I do believe one should stand up for the things they believe in, but it's the self-righteous finger pointing that causes the perceptions mentioned above. I apoligize for the slight hi-jack. Just thought this was a timely message that we all needed to hear today. He's wise, that Mark Lee. Indeed, the prophet. :D

Christ also said the world would hate us because we follow Him. If we look at what the world says about us and try to change based on their perception of us, then we are failing Christ. Are we to reach out to a dying world? Of course. Do we need to change our ways and compromise our faith to reach out to them? Absolutely not. There's a balance that needs to be found. On one hand, someone who is supposedly serving Christ feels like a failure if the "h" word or the "j" word is used to describe them. On the other, doesn't that confirm that we are living the way Christ intended for us to live? The world hates us because we are, at least somewhat, obedient to God. We don't drink at the parties, we don't agree with listening to some popular music, we don't agree with watching some popular movies, we wait until after marriage to join ourselves with another physically, we don't agree with homosexuality, we don't agree with abortion (many of us), etc. The world looks at this and calls us judgmental because they either know they are doing wrong or have allowed themselves to be deceived to the point where they are intolerant of any other view because their view must be right.

In one aspect, being called hypocritical and judgmental should make you evaluate how you witness to a world in need of salvation. In another, the fact that you are being called these things only fulfills Christ's words and confirms that you are indeed living a Christ-filled life that many hate but that others envy and desire. I get nervous whenever I see Christians getting so upset over what the world says when we were told by Christ Himself that the world would hate us because we are not supposed to be of the world. If some unbelievers don't persecute a Christian, maybe that person should evalute whether or not they are really showing Christ to the world. While some will reject you, others will accept Christ, and that's what, ultimately, it's all about, bringing people to God while sacrificing your own reputation and comfort.

[sandie]

Well, interesting thread...

As a New Zealander I totally understand Joan's point of view... it's the same for us Kiwis - when one succeeds we all do... and when an Australian makes it in Hollywood we also feel a bit of Antipodean pride about that too - although we do get pretty hacked off (ticked) when a Kiwi is called an Australian!

Heath's death has affected me as well - 28 and so talented - some of it is selfish, I was enjoying his career - I hope that the coroner's report comes out public soon...


Yes, Sharon, that's very much the way we feel. We do feel pride when an Aussie makes it and there is much sadness here over a talented life cut very short. Many of us have watched him for some years, and do feel sad. We will never know what he may have been capable of, as an actor.

The death of Heath Ledger is the lead story here and is dominating all news bulletins. When this year is over and is reviewed, it will still be a significant event here in Australia.

[sandie]

Matilde or Mathilde - not sure exactly which... :P

Matilda, as in "Waltzing Matilda." :)

[Yoshi]

Im not a medical examiner, coroner, doctor or whatever...but I feel confident that God gave me a tremendous gift yesterday at the hearing of Heath's death. I weeped for the situation, his daughter, Michelle, and the family tonight in that prayer meeting. I prayed that Our Father would take the place of Heath in Matilda's life. Im not going to go into anymore specifics than what I have but, I truly believe that his death was NOT intentional. It might have been brought on by behaviours or a heavy work load, but it wasnt suicide.


I believe so as well...

I just wish the speculation would stop... It's about time people looked for and found truth instead of maybes.. Speculation only hurts those who are already hurting beyond belief.

H.

[Godgrl Gomer]

Well, interesting thread...

As a New Zealander I totally understand Joan's point of view... it's the same for us Kiwis - when one succeeds we all do... and when an Australian makes it in Hollywood we also feel a bit of Antipodean pride about that too - although we do get pretty hacked off (ticked) when a Kiwi is called an Australian!

Heath's death has affected me as well - 28 and so talented - some of it is selfish, I was enjoying his career - I hope that the coroner's report comes out public soon...

Yup....Mateship...thats what it is. The ANZAC Spirit.

New Zealanders are Aussies arent they? :P *runs for her life*:P
hahahaha
Russell Crowe born in NZ but is an AUSSIE!
Mel Gibson born in the USA but is an AUSSIE!
Nicole Kidman born in Hawaii but is an AUSSIE!
Who else is there?

My Pastor is a Kiwi...been living here since he was 18. (He's now 46) He still calls himself a Kiwi....lol
WHY did I share that? I dont know.....

The death of Heath Ledger is the lead story here and is dominating all news bulletins. When this year is over and is reviewed, it will still be a significant event here in Australia.

And you are right Sandie....2008 is when Australia lost its son.
He was even in Home & Away!!!:eek: :eek:

[EmmoGomer]

I think that it will be a significant event here in the UK - we seem to take all the Aussies and Kiwis under our wing. All actors and so on seem to end up here acting as Englishmen!

[Whiteheart]

Yup....Mateship...thats what it is. The ANZAC Spirit.

New Zealanders are Aussies arent they? :P *runs for her life*:P
hahahaha
Russell Crowe born in NZ but is an AUSSIE!
Mel Gibson born in the USA but is an AUSSIE!
Nicole Kidman born in Hawaii but is an AUSSIE!
Who else is there?

My Pastor is a Kiwi...been living here since he was 18. (He's now 46) He still calls himself a Kiwi....lol
WHY did I share that? I dont know.....



And you are right Sandie....2008 is when Australia lost its son.
He was even in Home & Away!!!:eek: :eek:

Yup,and...

Phar Lap was a Kiwi horse NOT an Aussie
Crowded House, Dragon & Split Enz were Kiwi bands NOT Aussie
Pavlova is a Kiwi dessert NOT Aussie

But I digress :P

[rossid]

Matilda, as in "Waltzing Matilda." :)The news that I've read must have it wrong. Perhaps the Oz news has it right.

[middletree]

I just wish the speculation would stop... It's about time people looked for and found truth instead of maybes.. Speculation only hurts those who are already hurting beyond belief.

I've seen a few comments like this, and to be honest, I'm confused. I have seen very, very little speculating about why he died. Most people I have talked to are sad that he died, not obsessing about why he died.

[Yoshi]

I've seen a few comments like this, and to be honest, I'm confused. I have seen very, very little speculating about why he died. Most people I have talked to are sad that he died, not obsessing about why he died.

Must be looking in different places...

But yes, fortunately the attention is turning towards the sadness of his passing, not the way it happened..

Channel 10 over in Aus are doing a tribute Saturday night - A Knight's Tale followed by The Patriot..

Farewell Heath.. Hope you've found some peace and company in the right place..

[prayercloth sis]

Our hearts and prayers co out to the Ledger family ..from his parents, daughter and siblings to close friends...

we are truly compassionate considering the untimely death of such a talented, young actor that had so much to live for.....I am sure that this is tragic for his family....

and our hearts and prayers are with each and everyone ....

He will be missed by many.....

myself included as I was a fan..

Sincerely
Rhonie

[Godgrl Gomer]

Last year when Steve Irwin died, I paused and thought, how sad. And pondered on what it meant.
When Belinda Emmit passed, I paused and prayed for Rove. I was saddened at the news, but that was it.
This has always been my reaction...a sadness upon hearing, heart felt prayer and then life goes on - with extra prayer and remembering if God calls.

But this time, it physically felt like a sucker punch in my chest. All breath left me. My knees buckled. I cried uncontrollably.

Why?

Well the only reason I can give is the answer that was given me in prayer. I honestly believe that I had Empathy and was given this by the Lord. It enabled me to pray what the Lord needed to be prayed. I truly believe that Heath was taken before his appointed time and I felt the Father's heart. Call me crazy....but my Spirit understands it and thats all that matters.

So...yeah, Aussies and Kiwi's are passionate about our fellow man....but I think this example is an extreme. There was something definitively different and wrong about Heath's passing.


And to my Aussies .......
Happy Australia Day!!!


Aussie!
Oi!
Aussie!
Oi!
Aussie! Aussie! Aussie!
Oi! Oi! Oi!

Do yourself a favour.....watch 10 Things I Hate About You and enjoy Heath's serenade.....I love you baby...;)

[kiwisongbird]

Yeah, cool movie - always makes me laugh! :)

[rossid]

Must be looking in different places...

But yes, fortunately the attention is turning towards the sadness of his passing, not the way it happened..

Channel 10 over in Aus are doing a tribute Saturday night - A Knight's Tale followed by The Patriot..

Farewell Heath.. Hope you've found some peace and company in the right place..We watched clips from Knights Tale for our Raising A Modern Day Night fathering sons series - http://www.bandofbrothers.org/bob/html/GifttoSonRiteofPassage.ht ml?gclid=CJWA_KvfkpECFQ-9IgodhVdESA
this is the website based on Robert Lewis' series book RMDK. The movie is in the $5 bin an Wal Mart. Tonight would be a good time to buy it and watch it.

"Here's something about the RMDK book from the Band of Brothers website:
Raising a Modern Day Knight addresses the questions: What does it mean to be a man? Moreover, how does a father instill these qualities in his son? Robert Lewis shares a unique approach to shaping a boy into a man by equipping him with three essential elements: a vision, a code of conduct, and a cause (Christianity) in which to invest his life. If you have a son, it is important to initiate him into the Greatest Battle of all time, and to give him a vision for his rightful place in the larger story. From the website link above, there is some wonderful material (video series, book, workbook, journal, etc.) that dads can use together to usher their sons through a right of passage."

Makes me think, as folks have mentioned, about this man and father that is now gone. But I'll post about fathers and daughters later...

[ausgirl]

Great: "notably large in size" "large in number or measure" "remarkable in magnitude" ... i.e. a tragedy = something having an intensely negative effect on a multitude of people.

Hurricane Katrina was a tragedy in that sense.
Hamlet is a tragedy in the literary sense.
Heath Ledger dying is neither. It's sad, and it's terrible for his family. Neither Sam nor I is trying to downplay that. It's simply not a tragedy. We've probably gone far enough down that rabbit trail, but ...
If he was your son who died, would it be tragic then? Tragedy is appropriate when you consider a child who has no father, family who has no son/brother, and potentially, a soul with a christless eternity.

[Godgrl Gomer]

Yeah, cool movie - always makes me laugh! :)http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIW7WXPb-dc

[EmmoGomer]

Now I'm crying http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/sad024.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org). Thanks babe.

[Godgrl Gomer]

This will really make you cry!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-DmUspjSoU&feature=related


I dont know the name of the song/artist, but the chorus is lovely...
'will I dance before you Jesus?'


I am at peace now, in regard to mourning, but there is still something stirring in the Spirit Realm....something bad happened...something wrong.

[rossid]

For some reason the video will not load but the song/artist/lyrics are in there if you click 'more' under About This Video.

Mercy Me (band)
"I Can Only Imagine"

I can only imagine
What it will be like
When I walk
By your side

I can only imagine
What my eyes will see
When your face
Is before me
I can only imagine

[Chorus:]
Surrounded by Your glory, what will my heart feel
Will I dance for you Jesus or in awe of you be still
Will I stand in your presence or to my knees will I fall
Will I sing hallelujah, will I be able to speak at all
I can only imagine

I can only imagine
When that day comes
And I find myself
Standing in the Son

I can only imagine
When all I will do
Is forever
Forever worship You
I can only imagine

[Chorus]

I can only imagine [x2]

I can only imagine
When all I will do
Is forever, forever worship you
I Can Only Imagine.

[Tony Trout]

Looks like Fred Phelps and his parasites are at it again....*sigh*


01/27/2008
2:30 PM - 4:30 PM
Los Angeles, CA

Los Angeles Shrine & Exposition Center 700 W 32nd St. This is for the Screen Actors Guild Awards where they will be "honoring" dead pervert Heath Ledger.


These guys just irritate the **** out of me....:mad: :mad:

[rossid]

I saw that too...

[Tony Trout]

I saw that too...


Yeah...words fail me for people like Phelps and his bunch...

I was very hesitant to post what I did...if need be, I'll remove it....

[Jesuslove]

Looks like Fred Phelps and his parasites are at it again....*sigh*


01/27/2008
2:30 PM - 4:30 PM
Los Angeles, CA

Los Angeles Shrine & Exposition Center 700 W 32nd St. This is for the Screen Actors Guild Awards where they will be "honoring" dead pervert Heath Ledger.


These guys just irritate the **** out of me....:mad: :mad:

What irritates me is that mainstream Christian leaders in America don't stand up when he does stuff like this, whether it trashing an actor, a soldier or a gay person. He discredits the Christian message with his rhetoric.

[Andi]

I didn't know who Phelps was until I read these posts. Did alittle research....good gosh.

This man and his congregation are in serious need of our prayers!

Please add them to your prayer lists. It is sad that he is leading them astray. Pray for their eyes to be opened.

What scripture is it about Pastors or church leaders being held more accountable before God than others?

*goes to look that up*

[rossid]

http://www.americansfortruth.com/news/labarbera-commends-gary-glenns-statement-on-fred-phelps-and-his-twisted-god-hates-fags-message-military-funeral-protests.html

"Fred Phelps insists that individuals who engage in homosexual behavior are beyond hope or redemption, a false doctrine that — while at odds with the true Christian gospel of repentance and forgiveness available to all — is much closer to that of homosexual activists who echo Phelps’ insistence that individuals involved in homosexual behavior have no hope of abandoning that lifestyle.

We strongly disagree. The false gospel preached by Fred Phelps and the Triangle Foundation is proven wrong by the life experience of individuals who through faith, with God’s help, have abandoned homosexual activity and now live their lives in normal loving relationships between a man and a woman, many married with children. In four Michigan cities, counseling services are available staffed by individuals who themselves abandoned homosexual behavior and are compassionately committed to giving others hope and help in doing so. (For example, see http://www.corduroystone.com/ in Lansing or http://www.recmin.org/ in Sterling Heights, [Michigan].)"

[Jesuslove]

http://www.americansfortruth.com/news/labarbera-commends-gary-glenns-statement-on-fred-phelps-and-his-twisted-god-hates-fags-message-military-funeral-protests.html

"Fred Phelps insists that individuals who engage in homosexual behavior are beyond hope or redemption, a false doctrine that — while at odds with the true Christian gospel of repentance and forgiveness available to all — is much closer to that of homosexual activists who echo Phelps’ insistence that individuals involved in homosexual behavior have no hope of abandoning that lifestyle.

We strongly disagree. The false gospel preached by Fred Phelps and the Triangle Foundation is proven wrong by the life experience of individuals who through faith, with God’s help, have abandoned homosexual activity and now live their lives in normal loving relationships between a man and a woman, many married with children. In four Michigan cities, counseling services are available staffed by individuals who themselves abandoned homosexual behavior and are compassionately committed to giving others hope and help in doing so. (For example, see http://www.corduroystone.com/ in Lansing or http://www.recmin.org/ in Sterling Heights, [Michigan].)"

isn't this a bit off topic? I think this should be pulled.

[middletree]

isn't this a bit off topic? I think this should be pulled.

I think it's appropriate, because it shows the fallacy in the Phelps message.

BTW, I commend you for what you said earlier: few, if any, mainstream Christians are denouncing Phelps.

[cheewiee]

isn't this a bit off topic? I think this should be pulled.

Why?

You said...

What irritates me is that mainstream Christian leaders in America don't stand up when he does stuff like this, whether it trashing an actor, a soldier or a gay person. He discredits the Christian message with his rhetoric.

To which Rossid posted this...

http://www.americansfortruth.com/new...-protests.html

"Fred Phelps insists that individuals who engage in homosexual behavior are beyond hope or redemption, a false doctrine that — while at odds with the true Christian gospel of repentance and forgiveness available to all — is much closer to that of homosexual activists who echo Phelps’ insistence that individuals involved in homosexual behavior have no hope of abandoning that lifestyle.

We strongly disagree. The false gospel preached by Fred Phelps and the Triangle Foundation is proven wrong by the life experience of individuals who through faith, with God’s help, have abandoned homosexual activity and now live their lives in normal loving relationships between a man and a woman, many married with children. In four Michigan cities, counseling services are available staffed by individuals who themselves abandoned homosexual behavior and are compassionately committed to giving others hope and help in doing so. (For example, see http://www.corduroystone.com/ in Lansing or http://www.recmin.org/ in Sterling Heights, [Michigan].)"

Simply put... Mainstream Christian Organizations speaking out against Phelps.....

[ausgirl]

If being a christian means I have to behave like this man, I'd rather be an atheist!

[Yoshi]

If being a christian means I have to behave like this man, I'd rather be an atheist!

Same!

Seriously... What happened to love the sinner hate the sin?

My Dad actually got a comment published on the local newspaper's website, stating he, as a member of a baptist congregation, wished to be disassociated from this group... And that if they read their Bibles a little better, they would find they were more likely to be going to hell than Heath..

I have friends who still haven't been able to process what happened - I agree with Godgrl Gomer on this one - there's something really strange happening in the spirit world..

I pray that all affected can find comfort in the love of God..

[clemsontigers23]

Why?

You said...



To which Rossid posted this...



Simply put... Mainstream Christian Organizations speaking out against Phelps.....

Which means, Jesuslove, that you were wrong in your assertion that mainstream Christians aren't speaking out against him, and that it's not off-topic just because he proved you were wrong.

I hate that a lot of people who say Christians hate gays use the videos from some of this church's anti-homosexuality rallies. Wasn't this the church where people were holding up signs that said "God hates gays"? This Phelps guy...I hope he figures out that he's preaching a message of hate rather than a message of redemption.

[middletree]

Which means, Jesuslove, that you were wrong in your assertion that mainstream Christians aren't speaking out against him,

Let's tap the brakes here. Jesuslove is correct in that the response from mainstream Christian churches has not been anywhere near loud enough.

[clemsontigers23]

Let's tap the brakes here. Jesuslove is correct in that the response from mainstream Christian churches has not been anywhere near loud enough.

No one takes this church seriously anyways, so it's not really needed. Hopefully people who hear about it will realize that it's the same church doing it everytime.

[Jesuslove]

Let's tap the brakes here. Jesuslove is correct in that the response from mainstream Christian churches has not been anywhere near loud enough.

Thank you! You are right. All Christians need to stand up and have a united voice against Mr. Phelps and his crew. However, this thread is about Heath Ledger, not about sexuality.

[Debbie]

this thread is about Heath Ledger, not about sexuality.

Thank you!

Anyone care to start another thread on the very good topic that was about to get started here?

[middletree]

Thank you!

Anyone care to start another thread on the very good topic that was about to get started here?

I think it was relevant, because it was about Phelps' protests at the Heath Ledger funeral. Having said that, I can start one.

[Debbie]

I think it was relevant, because it was about Phelps' protests at the Heath Ledger funeral. Having said that, I can start one.

That would be great James, Thank you!

I agree, it is relevant, I just did not want to get to deep here into the discussion.

response from mainstream Christian churches has not been anywhere near loud enough.

Amen! and this statement doesn't apply to only Phelps & company, but it's a great place to start.

[rossid]

Let's tap the brakes here. Jesuslove is correct in that the response from mainstream Christian churches has not been anywhere near loud enough.Amen!

"Love one another..."
- Mac Powell (and some guy named Jesus)

[Healing Oil]

Amen!

"Love one another..."
- Mac Powell (and some guy named Jesus)
Give credit to where credit is due first...you might want to swtich those names around =)

Im in agreeance with some of the above sentiments. There is something just really off going on right now.

I am still lifting up this situation to the Lord. Only He knows and understands.

[rossid]

Pray as they arrange the funeral.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,325796,00.html

[Tony Trout]

NYC Medical Examiner Rules Ledger Died Of Accidental Overdose (http://canadianpress.google.com/article/ALeqM5io7ki3wzSTSr_eacvgz TbzR0RSlw)


NEW YORK - Heath Ledger died of an accidental overdose of prescription drugs that included painkillers, sleeping pills and anti-anxiety medication, the New York City medical examiner said Wednesday.

"Mr. Heath Ledger died as the result of acute intoxication by the combined effects of oxycodone, hydrocodone, diazepam, temazepam, alprazolam and doxylamine," medical examiner's spokeswoman Ellen Borakove said in a statement.

The drugs are the generic names for the OxyContin painkiller, the anti-anxiety drug Valium, Xanax, an anti-anxiety drug, and the sleep aids Restoril and Unisom. Hydrocodone is another name for ibuprofen.

Ledger, who was nominated for an Oscar for his role in "Brokeback Mountain," died in his New York City apartment Jan. 22.

He was 28.

Ledger's parents and other close relatives have been gathering in their hometown of Perth, Australia, this week after spending nearly two weeks in the U.S. immediately following his death.

They are reportedly planning a private service in Perth and will either bury Ledger's body or inter his cremated remains in the city.

[sandyandporter]

Sad.

They do have an error in there though. Hydrocodone is NOT ibuprofren. It's synthetic codeine. Vicodin is a hydrocodone.

[EmmoGomer]

Sad :(

[Whiteheart]

When sold commercially in the USA, hydrocodone is always combined with another medication. Those combined with acetaminophen are known by various trademark names, such as Vicodin and Lortab. Hydrocodone also can be combined with aspirin (e.g., Lortab ASA), ibuprofen (e.g., Vicoprofen), and certain antihistamines (e.g., Chemdal HD). Pure Hydrocodone tablets or capsules are not offered currently by any USA drug company.

???? Maybe he was taking this stuff then. In which case the coroner would still be right ?? <shrugs>

Rod

[rossid]

That article was from the Canadian Press and the AP is similar.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,328828,00.html


Heath Ledger Died of Accidental Overdose of Prescription Drugs, Examiner Says

Wednesday, February 06, 2008

NEW YORK — Heath Ledger died of an accidental overdose of painkillers, sleeping pills, anti-anxiety medication and other prescription drugs, the New York City medical examiner said Wednesday.

The cause of death was "acute intoxication by the combined effects of oxycodone, hydrocodone, diazepam, temazepam, alprazolam and doxylamine," spokeswoman Ellen Borakove said in a statement.

The drugs are the generic names for the painkiller OxyContin, the anti-anxiety drugs Valium and Xanax, and the sleep aids Restoril and Unisom. Hydrocodone is a prescription painkiller.

Click here to see the documents

http://www.tmz.com/2008/02/06/m-e-calls-ledger-death-accident/

Borakove wouldn't say what concentrations of each drug were found in Ledger's blood, or whether one drug played a greater part than another in causing his death.

"What you're looking at here is the cumulative effects of these medications together," she said.

The ruling comes two weeks after the 28-year-old Australian-born actor was found dead in the bed of his rented SoHo apartment. Police found bottles of six types of prescription drugs in his bedroom and bathroom, and a rolled-up $20 bill near the bed.

Ledger's family returned to the actor's hometown of Perth, Australia, on Tuesday to prepare for his funeral. Arrangements were private.

In a statement released through Ledger's publicist, the actor's father, Kim, said Wednesday: "While no medications were taken in excess, we learned today the combination of doctor-prescribed drugs proved lethal for our boy. Heath's accidental death serves as a caution to the hidden dangers of combining prescription medication, even at low dosage."

Heath Ledger was discovered by his masseuse Jan. 22 after she arrived for an appointment that afternoon. She entered his bedroom to set up for the massage and found him unresponsive, and proceeded to call Mary-Kate Olsen three times over the next 9 minutes before dialing 911. Ledger had been dead for some time, and police say no foul play occurred.

Ledger, nominated for an Oscar for his role in "Brokeback Mountain," had returned to New York from London, where he had been filming a $30 million Terry Gilliam film, "The Imaginarium of Doctor Parnassus," days before his death. He said in a November interview that his roles in the Batman movie "The Dark Knight" and the Bob Dylan biopic "I'm Not There" had taken a toll.

"Last week I probably slept an average of two hours a night," Ledger told The New York Times. "I couldn't stop thinking. My body was exhausted, and my mind was still going." He said he had taken two Ambien pills, which only gave him an hour of sleep.

[Debbie]

Absolutely very sad to hear, but, I can think of how it could be a relief for his family.

Here is the MSN report: Pretty much like others, just a few differences.

Ledger Died of Accidental Overdose
Feb. 6, 2008, 10:22 AM EST
NEW YORK (AP) -- Heath Ledger died of an accidental overdose of painkillers, sleeping pills, anti-anxiety medication and other prescription drugs, the New York City medical examiner said Wednesday.

The cause of death was "acute intoxication by the combined effects of oxycodone, hydrocodone, diazepam, temazepam, alprazolam and doxylamine," spokeswoman Ellen Borakove said in a statement.

The drugs are the generic names for the painkiller OxyContin, the anti-anxiety drugs Valium and Xanax, and the sleep aids Restoril and Unisom. Hydrocodone is a widely used prescription painkiller.

Borakove wouldn't say what concentrations of each drug were found in Ledger's blood, or whether one drug played a greater part than another in causing his death.

"What you're looking at here is the cumulative effects of these medications together," she said.

The ruling comes two weeks after the 28-year-old Australian-born actor was found dead in the bed of his rented SoHo apartment. Police found bottles of six types of prescription drugs, including sleeping pills and anti-anxiety medication, in his bedroom and bathroom.

Ledger was discovered by his masseuse on Jan. 22 after she arrived for an appointment that afternoon. She entered his bedroom to set up for the massage and found him unresponsive, and proceeded to call Mary-Kate Olsen three times over the next 9 minutes before dialing 911. Ledger had been dead for some time, and police say no foul play occurred.

Ledger, nominated for an Oscar for his role in "Brokeback Mountain," had returned to New York from London days before his death, where he had been filming a $30 million Terry Gilliam film. He said in a November interview that his most recent completed roles in the Batman movie "The Dark Night" and Bob Dylan biopic "I'm Not There" had taken a toll, saying he couldn't sleep.

"Last week I probably slept an average of two hours a night," Ledger told The New York Times. "I couldn't stop thinking. My body was exhausted, and my mind was still going." He said he had taken two Ambien pills, which only gave him an hour of sleep.

Ledger's family returned to the actor's hometown of Perth, Australia on Tuesday to prepare for his funeral. Arrangements were private.

In a statement released through Ledger's publicist, Ledger's father, Kim, said Wednesday: "While no medications were taken in excess, we learned today the combination of doctor-prescribed drugs proved lethal for our boy. Heath's accidental death serves as a caution to the hidden dangers of combining prescription medication, even at low dosage."

[Jesuslove]

"Last week I probably slept an average of two hours a night," Ledger told The New York Times. "I couldn't stop thinking. My body was exhausted, and my mind was still going." He said he had taken two Ambien pills, which only gave him an hour of sleep.

I can't imagine what could have been on his mind that would make him so awake that two ambien wouldn't completely knock him out.

I had a bad experience with Ambien once. I was having sleep issues (obviously). Earlier in the evening, I had a glass of wine with dinner. I took Ambien before bed, and passed out. I must have woke up in the middle of the night and walked around my house. I tripped the burglar alarm. The next morning I visited my parents, who aparently were at my home the night before, along with the police who had been dispatched by my alarm. I had absolutely NO recollection of anything that happened. Later that day, I took the prescription back to my doctor, and I never took Ambien again.

[rossid]

I can't imagine what could have been on his mind that would make him so awake that two ambien wouldn't completely knock him out.

I had a bad experience with Ambien once. I was having sleep issues (obviously). Earlier in the evening, I had a glass of wine with dinner. I took Ambien before bed, and passed out. I must have woke up in the middle of the night and walked around my house. I tripped the burglar alarm. The next morning I visited my parents, who aparently were at my home the night before, along with the police who had been dispatched by my alarm. I had absolutely NO recollection of anything that happened. Later that day, I took the prescription back to my doctor, and I never took Ambien again.

Prior to my bipolar diagnosis the doctor prescribed it. My wife KNEW it was not a sleeping issue. Thank God for her brother, the youth pastor at our old church, that met with me to discuss my behaviour. The result was getting on the necessary meds. But my recall is the Ambien did not make me sleep. Oh and now, as these companies do, there is the 'stupid' drug Ambien CR which is basically no different from the original which, you guessed it, will be coming off patent.