2008 Super Bowl

[Dan!]

Will the Giants be the cinderella story that ruins the perfect season for the Patriots? What are your thoughts about this year's game? At least it won't be played in sub-zero weather.

[Jake]

I'm a Packers fan, who's now rooting for the Pats. Might as well see some history.

[rossid]

So the team that in IMHO is beatable keeps winning. What can you do? They may go 19-0 and considered as the best team ever. My wife still insists they cheated and should have an asterisk. The underdog can silence all these concerns.

[clemsontigers23]

Go Giants. I never thought I'd root for that punk Eli but I will be Februrary 3rd.

[Andi]

Go Giants. I never thought I'd root for that punk Eli but I will be Februrary 3rd.

punk? lol You crack me up ;)

I am for the game. I really don't give a hoot who wins, but I am gonna be so aggravated if the game stinks! Commercials too...I am hoping for some great commercials.

But for the sake of the game....I will post my pick the day before.

[middletree]

My wife still insists they cheated and should have an asterisk.

That position makes no sense. They got busted in the first game of the season, then were forced to destroy all their tapes. If they had gotten caught in game 9, then your wife would have a point.

[clemsontigers23]

I agree with the tree. Besides, they're losing a 1st round draft pick (even though they had 2 to begin with) so that's punishment enough it seems.

[jrmitch]

To add to the above subject, what Belichik and the Pats got caught doing is nothing new. It's common practice for teams to attempt to steal each others signals (different argument, but it's the same way with stealing signs in baseball). So if we're going to accuse the Pats of cheating just because they got caught, we need to also keep in mind all of the others who just haven't been caught - yet. :D

As far as the game goes, I can see the Giants hanging in there if they can establish a strong running game and play ball control. The problem is, this Patriot team is just so doggone versatile on offense and well disciplined overall that they keep finding ways to beat teams that have found ways to slow them down (as they did Sunday when San Diego stopped their spread offense. The Pats just switched to a multiple tight end set and smashed the Chargers in the mouth). I've never seen a team that does such varied styles of offensive football as well as New England has done this year, and I think that versatility is enough to give them an overwhelming edge. Pats by 10.

[Jason]

So anyone coming to see the game and me in lovely metropolitan Phoenix? :D

[EmmoGomer]

Soooooooooooooo.......... ....is the Super Bowl, like a really big bowl to put snacks in http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/confused002.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)??






OK, OK, I've gone!! http://www.freesmileys.org/smileys/scared007.gif (http://www.freesmileys.org)

[VerbumReale]

To add to the above subject, what Belichik and the Pats got caught doing is nothing new. It's common practice for teams to attempt to steal each others signals (different argument, but it's the same way with stealing signs in baseball). So if we're going to accuse the Pats of cheating just because they got caught, we need to also keep in mind all of the others who just haven't been caught - yet. :D



John Madden said that if he were still coaching today he wouldn't do it, but not so much for ethical reasons but that he just didn't think that for whatever little advatage you gain from it, it's not worth the effort that you put into it.

As far as the game I think the Pats will win and I will be rooting for them. I want to see someobody finally shut that 72 Dolphin team up. Plus I am an AFC guy, as a rule I generally root for the AFC. Although I would not have been able to get myself to root for the Chargers and if the Chiefs ever get to the Super Bowl again I would not be able to root for them.

[lilmikey]

I'm a Packers fan, who's now rooting for the Pats. Might as well see some history.

I lost twenty bucks because of the Packers:mad: :mad:

[Jake]

I lost twenty bucks because of the Packers:mad: :mad:

They made me a few dollars over the season, and oddly enough, I didn't bet with anybody on the NFC Championship game...but I was still more than a little mad.

[Tim]

I for one like the Super Bowl matchup. You have a team who doesn't lose on the road and was ready to dump their qb and coach and had to listen to Barber say that the Coach was why he quit the Giants and a team that played New England as tough as anybody.

I anticipate a good game with ball control as the key for the Giants to win. If they can run their tandem tailbacks successfully, avoid 3rd and long, and allow Eli to continue to throw passes in the short game, they have a great chance of winning. Defensive key is to continue to stop Moss from the big day, make the others beat you.

So I think I would take the Giants and the 14 point spread. My brother picked the Giants to win without the points and got a nice hefty return in Nevada. I don't gamble so I make nothing but if I did, my money is on the Giants + 14.

[Jake]

Ok, to all of you who say the Giants can do it as long as they use the two-back system to control the clock and Eli is effective; doesn't that sound like the same strategy everybody said could vault Jacksonville past New England? I think we all see how well it worked for them.

[Valpo]

Ok, to all of you who say the Giants can do it as long as they use the two-back system to control the clock and Eli is effective; doesn't that sound like the same strategy everybody said could vault Jacksonville past New England? I think we all see how well it worked for them.

Well Jake, you're a Packers fan, would you say the Packers could have beaten the Patriots in a head to head match up? I bet you would think/feel/ and say that. That being said, what makes you think the Packers who were totally outplayed by the Giants would have had a better chance against the Pats than the team that earned the right to play them for the Lombardi Trophy on February 3rd? If you think the Packers couldn't have done it either than disregard the post, but otherwise I'd like to hear your answer.

Giants have seen NE, and only lost to them by 3. One could argue they gave the game away too after being up by 12 late. I would definitely take the Giants to make the now 12 1/2 point spread. And heck, any given sunday, "why not?"

[Jake]

Well Jake, you're a Packers fan, would you say the Packers could have beaten the Patriots in a head to head match up? I bet you would think/feel/ and say that. That being said, what makes you think the Packers who were totally outplayed by the Giants would have had a better chance against the Pats than the team that earned the right to play them for the Lombardi Trophy on February 3rd? If you think the Packers couldn't have done it either than disregard the post, but otherwise I'd like to hear your answer.

Giants have seen NE, and only lost to them by 3. One could argue they gave the game away too after being up by 12 late. I would definitely take the Giants to make the now 12 1/2 point spread. And heck, any given sunday, "why not?"

You know what they say about assuming...

I actually told everybody I know that the only way Green Bay had a chance was if San Diego had upset New England. I just wanted to see my boys in the big game.

[EmmoGomer]

Soooooooooooooooo, is there a 'Super Spoon' to go with the 'Super Bowl'??

Don't you roll your eyes at me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Valpo]

You know what they say about assuming...

I actually told everybody I know that the only way Green Bay had a chance was if San Diego had upset New England. I just wanted to see my boys in the big game.

fair enough, I assumed as a fan of the team you would give your team a legit shot

[RevZeek]

Em...:rolleyes: (I mean somebody had to do it!:P )

I want to see someobody finally shut that 72 Dolphin team up.

Dude, that's cold. As a Dolphins fan, we don't have much to root for! Let us live in our fantasy world :eek: Especially after this season.

I'd like to see the Giants win. I say this as a little brother. All the big talk about Peyton Manning and how Eli isn't as good of a player etc, I'd like to see Eli and his boys whip the Pats on behalf of little brothers everywhere! :D

[Jake]

fair enough, I assumed as a fan of the team you would give your team a legit shot

I'm a fan, not a moron. Nobody is beating the Pats this year. I just wanted my team in the Superbowl.

[Jason]

Soooooooooooooooo, is there a 'Super Spoon' to go with the 'Super Bowl'??

Don't you roll your eyes at me!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hmm ...

[VerbumReale]

I'm a fan, not a moron. Nobody is beating the Pats this year. I just wanted my team in the Superbowl.

The Ravens, who won 5 games this year, came very close to beating them. It is not ridiculous at all to think that they could lose on Super Bowl sunday. I will be rooting for the Pats but would not be shocked if they lost.

[Jake]

The Ravens, who won 5 games this year, came very close to beating them. It is not ridiculous at all to think that they could lose on Super Bowl sunday. I will be rooting for the Pats but would not be shocked if they lost.

I'm rooting for them, and would love to find somebody around where I live who'd be willing to bet on the Giants against them.

[rossid]

That position makes no sense. They got busted in the first game of the season, then were forced to destroy all their tapes. If they had gotten caught in game 9, then your wife would have a point.So she asks if it is okay to cheat in the first game?

[Les_Is_More]

I would love to see the Pats get all the way to the Super Bowl and get beat. That would be great! One game away from the ultimate season and they screw it up. :D

It's going to be difficult for the Giants, but I'll be rooting for them!

GO GIANTS

[Tim]

Ok, to all of you who say the Giants can do it as long as they use the two-back system to control the clock and Eli is effective; doesn't that sound like the same strategy everybody said could vault Jacksonville past New England? I think we all see how well it worked for them.
The key word is "if". I suppose that is why they actually play the game to see how strategies play out. I look for keys to win. Jacksonvlle's keys to beat the Pats didn't pan out because they failed to do what they needed to do. Giant's keys are the same. It will depend on execution of strategy.

MVP of Giants/Packers game? Easy for me--the offensive coordinator of the Giants absolutely called a much better game than the Packer Coordinator.

[VerbumReale]

I'm rooting for them, and would love to find somebody around where I live who'd be willing to bet on the Giants against them.

I don't think you'd have to hard a time doing that if you gave them the current 12 point spread.

[clemsontigers23]

Regardless of the outcome, the '85 Bears are still the greatest team of all-time. They're the only team to score over 400 points and give up less than 200. I have never seen a team as dominant as the '85 Bears and their only blemish was to Dan Marino.

[middletree]

So she asks if it is okay to cheat in the first game?

Of course not. But my statement was in response to her statement (quoted by you) that the Pats need an asterisk by their record. I disagree because they were only using video against one team in the entire 19 games, and there is little doubt they would have won that game anyway.

[middletree]

Regardless of the outcome, the '85 Bears are still the greatest team of all-time. They're the only team to score over 400 points and give up less than 200. I have never seen a team as dominant as the '85 Bears and their only blemish was to Dan Marino.

They'd be in my top 5, but not the best.

[clemsontigers23]

They'd be in my top 5, but not the best.

Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin...yes, tree, they're up there but I don't think they're the greatest of all-time. ;)

[middletree]

Aikman, Emmitt, Irvin...yes, tree, they're up there but I don't think they're the greatest of all-time. ;)

I didn't say that. I'd put them #2.

[RevZeek]

their only blemish was to Dan Marino.

But of course! :D

[VerbumReale]

Regardless of the outcome, the '85 Bears are still the greatest team of all-time. They're the only team to score over 400 points and give up less than 200. I have never seen a team as dominant as the '85 Bears and their only blemish was to Dan Marino.

Nope, sorry you are wrong. At the end of the day the only stat that matters is wins and losses, since ultimately winning is the objective. If the Pats win they will be the only team to go 19-0, period. I don't care if the 85 bears did give up fewer points. No amount of dissecting their stats will give them a nineteenth win nor will it erase the one loss and ultimately that means if the Pats win then they were the better team. On the other hand, if they lose then they don't even enter the discussion of the greatest of all time. But if they win, then they are the greatest of all time period. And I am not a Pats fan.

And another thing about the 85 Bears to consider. That defense wouldn't have been as succesful today. Offenses have evolved tremendously since then and defenses today need to be more athletic. The 85 Bears defense was physically dominant but not as athletic as many of today's defenses. Mike Ditka himself said this on the Mike and Mike show.

[JanetRN]

I'd like to see the Giants win but I think I'm going to go w/ the Pats on this one... (I don't even like Steston ...;) )

[rossid]

'72 Dolphins - not the greatest of all time
'07 Pats - not the greatest of all time but the argument is ALMOST air tight that they are if they go 19-0

Pre-season poll: http://espn.go.com/page2/s/list/football/teams/greatest.html

All sports according to ESPN.com's Eric Neel: http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=neel/071219

[clemsontigers23]

Most people tend to agree that the '85 Bears are the greatest team of all-time and they had something that the Patriots lack: swagger and excitement. All I see from the Patriots is a bunch of emotionless, arrogant robots but the Bears were a fun team to watch. They were also MUCH better defensively than the Patriots. They would dominate Tom Brady because the Patriots really haven't faced a dominant defense this year.

I disagree with Neel naming the 1971-72 Lakers as the greatest team of all-time, though. The Chicago Bulls in the 90s are still the only team to win 70 games in a season. There has never been a team that's dominated the way they did, and there's never been a player who even comes close to Michael Jordan.

Most great teams are able to capture and intrigue even the most casual fan, as well, but the Patriots lack that charm and excitement and are one of the most hated teams in sports. Great teams are able to capture the interest of casual fans but most people just want the Patriots to lose.

VR wrote: Nope, sorry you are wrong. At the end of the day the only stat that matters is wins and losses, since ultimately winning is the objective. If the Pats win they will be the only team to go 19-0, period. I don't care if the 85 bears did give up fewer points. No amount of dissecting their stats will give them a nineteenth win nor will it erase the one loss and ultimately that means if the Pats win then they were the better team. On the other hand, if they lose then they don't even enter the discussion of the greatest of all time. But if they win, then they are the greatest of all time period. And I am not a Pats fan.

The Hawaii Warriors went 12-0 and were the only undefeated team at the end of the college football regular season. Do you think they were the best team in college football? I hope not because Georgia showed them that they didn't even deserve to be ranked. The '85 Bears were 18-1, with the 1 loss coming to Dan Marino. The Patriots almost got beat by quarterbacks like Eli Manning and Kyle Boller (and probably should have too had it not been for the refs in the Ravens game). They are not the greatest team of all-time. No team has dominated the way the '85 Bears did.

[VerbumReale]

Most people tend to agree that the '85
The Hawaii Warriors went 12-0 and were the only undefeated team at the end of the college football regular season. Do you think they were the best team in college football? I hope not because Georgia showed them that they didn't even deserve to be ranked. The '85 Bears were 18-1, with the 1 loss coming to Dan Marino. The Patriots almost got beat by quarterbacks like Eli Manning and Kyle Boller (and probably should have too had it not been for the refs in the Ravens game). They are not the greatest team of all-time. No team has dominated the way the '85 Bears did.

Since when does swagger make a great team?? You don't think the Pats have swagger?? I think the teams that played them would disagree. Swagger isn't just about trash-talk and showing off. That cold, emotionless focus can be just as intimidating, probably more-so than trash-talkking.

And who are these "most" people who think that the 85 Bears are the best and since when are you their spokesperson?? Actually I have heard many people this past week list other teams as the best ever.

Bringing in Hawaii is not not even close to being the same thing and as you pointed out, in the end they ended up not going undefeated anyway. There is a much greater disparity between a WAC team and an SEC team then there is between champiosnhip NFL teams from different eras (as if we could even measure the disparity between teams of different eras anyway) And as I pointed out the coach of the 85 Bears has conceded himself that their defense wouldn't be able to dominate the same way today. I think he might have a little more insight on this than you.

You can talk about should have this should have that, the Bears played against this QB blah blah blah. Like I said none of it will give the Bears a 19th win. I don't care if the Pats only won every game by one point, they won them, and that's all that matters. If they win the Super Bowl this year they accomplished something that the 85 Bears couldn't, and had a very legitimate shot at doing. And don't try to tell me that Ditka and Ryan would not have loved to go undefeated!! They would have, but they weren't able to.

So you can keep picking apart the two team's schedules all you want. It will mean nothing to me. If the Pats win the Super Bowl, they will be the only team to go 19-0 and since the one stat that matters more than any other stat is winning that makes them the best and you will not convince me otherwise.

You can repeat this 85 Bears mantra all you want, that doesn't make it so.

[jrmitch]

Okay, first things first: I hate the '72 Dolphins. I didn't like them in '72, and I don't like them now.

Next, a couple of things: First, I just want to gently point out that the list of the greatest teams of all time put out by ESPN is entirely subjective, as are all of the opinions contained within this thread. We can conjecture, argue, analyze, and speculate all we want - but even with the best of analysis there will never be a definitive answer. So for anyone (myself included) to adamantly state that any single team is greater than any other from a standpoint other than measurable performance on the field (i.e., wins/losses; championships won, etc.) is purely speculative. It may be very informed, wise, and thoughful speculation....but it's still speculation, not fact. ;) Second, going simply by performance and performance only - the greatest single season team in NFL history would have to be the '72 Fish, because of the unbeaten record (and what never seems to get mentioned in the argument about their greatness is that they went on to repeat as Super Bowl champs the following year. Considering that only 6 teams have won 2 straight Super Bowls, that adds an element of dominance to their performance). Third, they went unbeaten in spite of having to play 10 of their 17 victories with a backup quarterback (Earl Morrall in place of the injured Bob Griese). Granted, Morrall was probably the most experienced backup in the league at the time. But it'd be just like the Pats having Vinny Testaverde as the backup to Brady and having to play most of this year with Vinny as the starter. While we don't know how the Bears or Pats would have done without McMahon or Brady, we can return to that measurable performance of the Fish - it didn't stop them. Finally, to broaden out the argument about the greatest NFL team of all time to dominance over a given period of time, history shows that the greatest dominance in the history of the league is not the Pats, Cowboys, 49ers, or Steelers. It's the Packers. Green Bay won 5 NFL championships in 7 years, including 3 in a row. (And they actually played in 6 title games within that 7 year span, losing their first championship game appearance to the Eagles). No other team has yet to match that feat, and until they do, history will continue to reflect that the Pack is the only team to be able to do so. (Green Bay also has the most championships in NFL history with 12. Which means that in spite of all of their accomplishments the 'boys, "niners, and Steelers still have some catching up to do).

And oh my Lord.....did I just give us something else to argue about??? :D

[Valpo]

All this talk about the greatest team in history because they're 19-0 just reminded me of something:

They'll be 18-1 a week from now

"Any given Sunday"

Conventional wisdom says Pats, and I'd take the Pats 8 or 9 times outta 10 myself, but why not? Giants will win, and there will be nothing better than seeing Billacheat and Greg Brady tell us how 18 wins means nothing without the Lombardi Trophy.

[VerbumReale]

Finally, to broaden out the argument about the greatest NFL team of all time to dominance over a given period of time, history shows that the greatest dominance in the history of the league is not the Pats, Cowboys, 49ers, or Steelers. It's the Packers. Green Bay won 5 NFL championships in 7 years, including 3 in a row. (And they actually played in 6 title games within that 7 year span, losing their first championship game appearance to the Eagles). No other team has yet to match that feat, and until they do, history will continue to reflect that the Pack is the only team to be able to do so. (Green Bay also has the most championships in NFL history with 12. Which means that in spite of all of their accomplishments the 'boys, "niners, and Steelers still have some catching up to do).[/list]

And oh my Lord.....did I just give us something else to argue about??? :D


I think this discussion is pretty much limited to greatest team over one season. If we're talking about over an extended period of time, the Bears aren't even in the dsicussion.

[clemsontigers23]

I think this discussion is pretty much limited to greatest team over one season. If we're talking about over an extended period of time, the Bears aren't even in the dsicussion.

The Bears aren't in the discussion? The Bears have 9 NFL championships. That's 2nd only to the Packers 12. The Bears have one of the greatest legacies in the NFL.

The reason I mentioned the swagger and excitement factor is that no NFL team has ever influenced pop culture more than the '85 Bears. They had a Grammy-award winning music video, a famous Saturday Night Live skit, and the team was full of personalities that were household names around the nation. Even today if you asked people about some of the players on the '85 Bears, most people could name a few. Sweetness, the Fridge, the Punky QB, Samurai Mike, Coach "Iron Mike" Ditka. No team has ever been able to capture the interest of more casual fans than the '85 Bears. In contrast, no team has ever captured more hatred than this year's Patriots. The '85 Bears helped make the Super Bowl into what it is today. They also crushed the New England Patriots in one of the most dominant performances in Super Bowl history.

The '85 Bears were an exciting and fun team full of personalities. The Patriots are a team full of robots who, if they have personalities, are usually arrogant. They're boring! The '85 Bears, on the other hand, made a Grammy-award winning music video, had a team full of players with nicknames and personalities, and gave birth to one of the funniest and most legendary SNL skits of all-time. In terms of excitement, the '85 Bears win by a long shot. I'd take an exciting and fun 18-1 Bears team over a boring and mechanical 19-0 Patriots team any day.

[Yippy]

Even today if you asked people about some of the players on the '85 Bears, most people could name a few. Sweetness, the Fridge, the Punky QB, Samurai Mike, Coach "Iron Mike" Ditka.
Who can forget the Fridge running (I use that term loosely) for a touchdown?

I always tell people that my daughter reminds me of Mike Singletary when she plays sports, especially softball. She gets that "look.":cool:

[VerbumReale]

The Bears aren't in the discussion? The Bears have 9 NFL championships. That's 2nd only to the Packers 12. The Bears have one of the greatest legacies in the NFL..


Sorry I should have said the 85 Bears or the Bears of the 80s. See now what you're doing here is expanding the discussion even wider to winningest franchise. The way I understood it when Jim said over a period of time he meant, one team with essentially the same players and coaches, ie a dynasty. The 85 Bears were undoubtedly one of the best single season teams of all time, but other than a few playoff appearances 85 was pretty much it for them.

The reason I mentioned the swagger and excitement factor is that no NFL team has ever influenced pop culture more than the '85 Bears. They had a Grammy-award winning music video, a famous Saturday Night Live skit, and the team was full of personalities that were household names around the nation. Even today if you asked people about some of the players on the '85 Bears, most people could name a few. Sweetness, the Fridge, the Punky QB, Samurai Mike, Coach "Iron Mike" Ditka. No team has ever been able to capture the interest of more casual fans than the '85 Bears. In contrast, no team has ever captured more hatred than this year's Patriots. The '85 Bears helped make the Super Bowl into what it is today. They also crushed the New England Patriots in one of the most dominant performances in Super Bowl history.

The '85 Bears were an exciting and fun team full of personalities. The Patriots are a team full of robots who, if they have personalities, are usually arrogant. They're boring! The '85 Bears, on the other hand, made a Grammy-award winning music video, had a team full of players with nicknames and personalities, and gave birth to one of the funniest and most legendary SNL skits of all-time. In terms of excitement, the '85 Bears win by a long shot. I'd take an exciting and fun 18-1 Bears team over a boring and mechanical 19-0 Patriots team any day.

I am not talking about who is the more entertaining team or which one has more of an impact on pop-culture, frankly I don't care about such things. I was talking about simply who is the better team.

Did the Bears really win a grammy for the Super-Bowl shuffle?? Wow that must have been a bad year for music. ;)

[clemsontigers23]

Sorry I should have said the 85 Bears or the Bears of the 80s. See now what you're doing here is expanding the discussion even wider to winningest franchise. The way I understood it when Jim said over a period of time he meant, one team with essentially the same players and coaches, ie a dynasty. The 85 Bears were undoubtedly one of the best single season teams of all time, but other than a few playoff appearances 85 was pretty much it for them.



I am not talking about who is the more entertaining team or which one has more of an impact on pop-culture, frankly I don't care about such things. I was talking about simply who is the better team.

Did the Bears really win a grammy for the Super-Bowl shuffle?? Wow that must have been a bad year for music. ;)

Are you kidding me, that video was great! :D

Well, at least I think it's great because I'm a Bears fan. ;)

Who can forget the Fridge running (I use that term loosely) for a touchdown?

I always tell people that my daughter reminds me of Mike Singletary when she plays sports, especially softball. She gets that "look."

Guess where the Fridge played his college ball? Clemson University! :cool: He's one of our all-time sacks leaders. His brother and Gaines Adams ended up passing him on the sacks list but neither will ever be as good as the Fridge! When I went to a Christian school in South Carolina we had a pastor come and talk to us at chapel one day and he was a wide receiver on one of the Clemson teams that the Fridge was on. He talked about how he was so scared of the Fridge and ended up getting trucked by him! :D

Samurai Mike is still coaching. I wish the Bears would get him but you're right he did have that look. The Bears have the greatest tradition of linebackers in NFL history, bar none. Bill George, Butkus, Singletary, and now Urlacher.

Did you know Mike Singletary's dad was a Pentecostal preacher and they sometimes spent 12 HOURS at church on Sundays? :eek:

[Debbie]

I think this is gonna be one of the best Superbowl games yet, or at least that I have watched. I would loved for the Packers to have made it, but that is history not in the making now.

I am undecided, but leaning toward the Giants for a Record!

Most of all, I am looking forward to the half time show.

Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers!!!

I bet he sings "Running Down a Dream"

[middletree]

I'm looking forward to Tom Petty. The halftime acts have been up and down in recent years, but I think this one was a great choice.

As for the game, I am seeing a lot of comments about how the Giants are going to really give the Patriots a game. I disagree. The Giants are one of the worst teams to make the Super Bowl in recent memory. Most years, they wouldn't have much of a chance. This year, going up against what may be the best team ever, they have zero chance.

[Valpo]

Zero chance even. Only lost by 3 on December 29th to the same Patriots. Worst teams to make a super bowl on a long time? Good gosh man. You mind if I feed you crow for the remainder of 2008 when the Giants pull it off on Sunday night?

[middletree]

Crow? Sure.

Keep in mind that I'm not talking trash. I don't get into those kinds of sports discussions. But this is a 10-win team. If they'd been in the AFC, they wouldn't have made the playoffs (as one other 10-win team didn't).

As it was, they won their 10 games by a total of 22 points. That's an average of 2.2 points per win. Only two other times has a team gotten to the Super Bowl with less than 50 points total for their wins. The Giants aren't very good for a Super Bowl team.

The Giants got to the Super Bowl by letting better teams (Dallas and Green Bay) beat themselves. They aren't that good.

Yes, the Giants gave the Pats their closest game of the year, but as much as the Pats like to say they gave 100%, that game meant nothing to them. And Eli is the one who folded like a wallet during that 4th quarter. This game, in contrast, will feature a Pats team that has something to play for. Against a team that's not very good, by SB standards.

[jrmitch]

I'm with Tree on this one, and there's another angle that I haven't seen anyone else on this thread point out: coaching. My guess is that Bellicheck and company will completely outscheme the Giants.

But it's still gonna come down to simple execution, and considering that the hallmark of this Patriot team is that they don't make mistakes in crucial situations my money's on them to make history. Besides, having witnessed John Elway ride off into the sunset with his ring, I want the same thing for Junior Seau (who I think is one of the classiest guys in the game). Pats win by 10.

[Valpo]

Game meant nothing to the Patriots?? They were going for 16-0! That game meant everything to them, and they even said that. If anything, that game meant absolutely nothing to the Giants because regardless of that game win or lose they were still going to tampa. The Giants beat Dallas and Green Bay because they OUTPLAYED each time, not because those teams beat themselves. Tony Romo is just a slouch of a quarterback, and Dallas could not penetrate the Giant D when it needed to the most. And don't tell me Brett Favre beat himself on his own turf in a game where the conditions were perfectly set his way. I am not saying the Giants are better than the Pats, but they are certainly a good football team. All that matters are the victories and championships, not the technical stats. The Giants are NFC Champs, after knocking out #1 and #2 in the conference, and have their very rite to knock off the best team in the game. All it takes is one game, any given sunday.

But that's fine, because the Giants were picked by most to go 4-12 this year, so it's better off that no one thinks they stand a chance. What I will say is two weeks is way too long for either team, way too much build up and it's a drag on the fans.

[middletree]

I just saw that you are from Long Island, and that explains a lot. I would be defending the Cowboys the same if it were them. But I'm just saying what I said from the POV of a neutral party. I don't care who wins. But for the reasons I stated, I maintain that the Giants are one of the worst SB teams in recent memory. I hope for your sake, since you're a fan, that I am wrong.

I guess we can continue this on Monday morning.

[Dan!]

Don't forget my favorite part of Super Bowl Sunday:

http://animal.discovery.com/tv/puppy-bowl/most-valuable-puppy/viewers-choice.html

[Jason]

I'm thinking I should be at a tailgate party in Glendale right now.

Well normally sunny metro Phoenix is expecting rain.

[RevZeek]

Just a few more hours to go!

[rossid]

Giants win coin toss and elect to get the ball as was reported this week.

Opening drive was about sixty yards. Did they really have the ball ten minutes? Lawrence Tynes kicks a field goal and the Giants are ahead 3-0. Tynes also kicked the winner in OT against the Pack in the NFC championship two weeks ago.

43-yard return of the kick by Muroney(sp?) giving the Pats great position.

Leaving for church in twenty minutes. Be back in an hour and a half.

[collace]

HT and 1:30am over here.

How the Giants are losing this game is beyond me. They have outplayed the Pats completly IMO yet have managed to mess up any time they have got near the line. Very disappointed with the Pats. They look to be there for the taking.

[Sam!]

Are you kidding? The Giants haven't outplayed the Patriots completely... The Patriots defense had two excellent series following the TD.

[Sam!]

The Giants' best hope was to score quickly and take a lead, then run the heck out of the ball, shorten the game and cling on for dear life. New England is going to adjust better than NY during the game on offense and defense, and they've just got too many wrinkles.

Although, Coughlin is no slouch of a headcoach. I just don't trust Spagnuolo and Gilbride, his assistants.

[rossid]

I heard that Tom PETTY was on the field for ten minutes which was more than Tom BRADY in the first half.

10-7 Giants lead with eight and a half minutes and the ball.

[rossid]

Two more touchdowns. 17-14

GIANTS WIN!!!

GIANTS WIN!!! :D

GIANTS WIN!!!

GIANTS WIN!!! :D

GIANTS WIN!!!

GIANTS WIN!!! :D

GIANTS WIN!!!

GIANTS WIN!!! :D

GIANTS WIN!!!

GIANTS WIN!!! :D

GIANTS WIN!!!

GIANTS WIN!!! :D

GIANTS WIN!!! :D

GIANTS WIN!!! :D

GIANTS WIN!!! :D

GIANTS WIN!!! :D

[Les_Is_More]

YAHOO!!! I'm busting at the seams!!!

For me it's more a matter of.........

PATRIOTS LOSE! :)

[R. Smith]

Congrad's to the NY Giants, Super Bowl Champs!!! In your face Tom Brady!!!

[Les_Is_More]

In your face Tom Brady!!!

I couldn't have said it better myself! :D

Way to go Eli!

[Sam!]

I am so happy for the Giants - well, Tom Coughlin anyway. If I had thought they would have had any chance, I would have picked them. I can't believe I lost the picks challenge - ironic though, since I didn't think the Giants had a chance against the Pack but picked 'em anyway because it was my only chance to win. Darn.

[Tracey]

Congratulations Giants...was truly a good game tonight...I think I lost my voice :eek:

[Jake]

Good game...and I still can't stand Eli.

[ZippyApplePants]

Two more touchdowns. 17-14

GIANTS WIN!!! :D

Yippee!! :D :D

YAHOO!!! I'm busting at the seams!!!

For me it's more a matter of.........

PATRIOTS LOSE! :)

Preach it brother!

Congrad's to the NY Giants, Super Bowl Champs!!! In your face Tom Brady!!!

Bwahahahaha! :D

I couldn't have said it better myself! :D

Way to go Eli!

I agree, congrats Giants!

[Valpo]

I TOLD YOU ALL!!!!!!!!!! WOOOOO!!!!!

[middletree]

Hey, Valpo: I like mustard.













It makes crow go down easier.

[Jake]

I'll have my crow with a touch of basil...

[Valpo]

Hey, Valpo: I like mustard.












It makes crow go down easier.

HAHHA, tree, we all make mistakes


love in Christ brother!

[Genna14]

GO GIANTS!!! THANK YOU JESUS!!!!!!!!!


We were praying to God, begging Him! And He listened! When Plaxico caught that TD, my entire family started jumping and screaming and hugging and screaming some more! And I'm not even a Giants fan! It's all about THEY BEAT THE PATS! HA!

:D :D :D :D :P :P :P

[middletree]

I hope you're not serious. The Jesus part, I mean.

[cheewiee]

YAY... Miami is still the only team to go undefeated for an entire season... WOOHOOO...

(Yes I realize the season is longer now, and there is a salary cap now, but as a dolphins fan let me revel in the joy of our awesome team from 36 years ago....

[Genna14]

I hope you're not serious. The Jesus part, I mean.
What makes you think that God didnt orchestrate this? I mean, He's done other things in the same manner. We prayed, He answered. Tell me that isnt God.



Here is a banner I made. Feel free to use it, you dont have to credit me. I put my watermark on it. :P

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z250/kkylieskreations/Banners/nychampsfinished.jpg

[Valpo]

What makes you think that God didnt orchestrate this? I mean, He's done other things in the same manner. We prayed, He answered. Tell me that isnt God.



Here is a banner I made. Feel free to use it, you dont have to credit me. I put my watermark on it. :P

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z250/kkylieskreations/Banners/nychampsfinished.jpg


BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!!

[ZippyApplePants]

What makes you think that God didnt orchestrate this? I mean, He's done other things in the same manner. We prayed, He answered. Tell me that isnt God.



Here is a banner I made. Feel free to use it, you dont have to credit me. I put my watermark on it. :P

http://i189.photobucket.com/albums/z250/kkylieskreations/Banners/nychampsfinished.jpg

Very nice, I like the pic of Eli with his mouth open. :D

[Genna14]

Thank you and thank you! I am working on a computer/desktop/myspace background. If you're interested in using it, send me a PM. It will look similar to the banner, only bigger.

[VerbumReale]

What makes you think that God didnt orchestrate this? I mean, He's done other things in the same manner. We prayed, He answered. Tell me that isnt God.





So what the Pats fans just weren't praying hard enough??

Sorry I gotta go with Tree on this one.

[VerbumReale]

As apparently one of the few people who were rooting for the Pats (I generally always root for the AFC unless it's Kansas City or San Diego), I have to humbly say the Giants really impressed me tonight. I thought Coughlin and Spagnola had a great defensive game-plan and I was tremendoulsy impressed with Eli Manning. He played his heart out tonight.

I wanted to see history, but I gotta say, I will shed no tears for Randy Moss tonight.

[Jason]

It was a great game.

[middletree]

What makes you think that God didnt orchestrate this? I mean, He's done other things in the same manner. We prayed, He answered. Tell me that isnt God.


That isn't God.

[3D NC fan]

Fantastic game! Great plays by some very talented athletes.

[Tracey]

As apparently one of the few people who were rooting for the Pats (I generally always root for the AFC unless it's Kansas City or San Diego), I have to humbly say the Giants really impressed me tonight. I thought Coughlin and Spagnola had a great defensive game-plan and I was tremendoulsy impressed with Eli Manning. He played his heart out tonight.

I wanted to see history, but I gotta say, I will shed no tears for Randy Moss tonight.

I was pulling for the Pats it would have been nice to see history happen...but it was an awesome game and the Giants really impressed me last night. :eek: I gotta give it to them they really earned it last night. Congrats to the Giants!!!

So what the Pats fans just weren't praying hard enough??

Sorry I gotta go with Tree on this one.

sorry I have to agree with these guys. This is a topic that has always been an 'issue' amoungst christians I know. Yeh we can pray about anything and everything and God is always there for us. But as verbum said...Not everyone was pulling for the Giants...and I don't think that just b/c the Patriots lost the reason is b/c they didn't pray hard enough. That's a bit silly.

[rossid]

Congratulations Giants...was truly a good game tonight...I think I lost my voice :eek:There was a lot of screaming at our house during the last two minutes. Certainly in houses all over America too. :cool:

Props to Spagnola's defense over the Pats' offense. :D

[Tracey]

I've never talked to my tv so much lol

[Genna14]

That isn't God.
So you're saying it was just a coincidence??? That is utterly ridiculous. It makes me SO mad to see "Christians" not giving the glory to GOD. Even the players themselves were giving Him the glory.

So what the Pats fans just weren't praying hard enough??

Sorry I gotta go with Tree on this one.


I never said or implied that. Why is everyone fighting so unbelieveably hard against the fact that God did this? Some of the players of the Giants are Christians and I believe He answered their prayers because they give glory to Him.

It's like saying someone came out of a horrific accident by chance, that God had nothing to do with it. God cares about ALL the affairs of men. It doesnt matter if its a game or life or death, He cares and he listens to the prayers of his people.

[middletree]

So you're saying it was just a coincidence???

Of course not. It was a hard-fought battle, and one team won because they earned it.

That is utterly ridiculous. It makes me SO mad to see "Christians" not giving the glory to GOD. Even the players themselves were giving Him the glory.


Don't mean to make you mad. I am all for giving God the glory for His work. Believe me. But this wasn't the Israelites vs. the Philistines. This was one group of men, some of whom are Christians, vs. another group of men, some of whom are Christians. Why He'd choose to make sure that one group wins and one loses is where you and I disagree.

And why did you put Christians in quotes? That sends a message that you don't consider those who disagree with you to be Christians. Just so we're clear, the term Christian is applicable to anyone who has accepted Jesus as Savior, believes in His work on the Cross, and has chosen to follow Him. That has nothing at all to do with one's point of view on God's involvement in football games.

Why is everyone fighting so unbelieveably hard

Wow. You are one for superlatives, aren't you? I'm not fighting hard, and neither are the others who agreed with me. We all made short statements that said we think the Super Bowl result was not an answer to prayer. If that is fighting hard.....


against the fact that God did this? Some of the players of the Giants are Christians and I believe He answered their prayers because they give glory to Him.

And what of the Patriots who love the Lord?

I think you have a very different understanding of what prayer is.

It's like saying someone came out of a horrific accident by chance
No, it's not. Analogies rarely work, and this is a perfect example. It's not like an accident, because in an accident, there is only one side that you would want to root for. In a football game, there are two sides. Two teams of excellent athletes who have trained, sacrificed, studied, and given their all so that they might have this chance to compete at the highest level.

[rossid]

Did Plaxico Burress thank God before he started crying and the interview ended?

[Valpo]

Genna--I love your banner and am a Big Blue fan, but I gotta side with tree and Steve here. Christians on both sides of the ball, heck I prayed for a good game in church, but certainly didn't pray for the Giants to win. Just that all players stay healthy and the Giants play their absolute best--which they did. Sure we are to give glory to God in all we do, but I'd have to say God is more concerned with spreading the Gospel than fixing a football game.

[Genna14]

Of course not. It was a hard-fought battle, and one team won because they earned it.

And God had absolutely nothing to do with it because a lowly football game doesnt require His immidiate attention?? GIVE ME A BREAK PEOPLE GIVE THE GLORY WHERE IT BELONGS GOD! You are giving the glory to MEN. They played hard SURE, but what it all comes down to is God's intervention and the last time I checked "He uses the FOOLISH things of this world to confound the WISE".

I got a message for Bilichick CHEATERS NEVER PROSPER.

And what of the Patriots who love the Lord?

I think you have a very different understanding of what prayer is.


Prayer is supplicating God for what you desire or need. God listens to all His children's prayers! ALL OF THEM! This includes ones that involve games.

What makes you think God doesnt care about a football game??? I'd like you to show me in the Bible where it says that God doesnt answer prayers about matters that are NOT spiritual??

The last time I checked, Christians weren't supposed to be OK with cheating. And that's exactly what the Patriots did. And yet, none of the guys on the team ever stopped what was happening. Hmmmmm.....

No, it's not. Analogies rarely work, and this is a perfect example. It's not like an accident, because in an accident, there is only one side that you would want to root for. In a football game, there are two sides. Two teams of excellent athletes who have trained, sacrificed, studied, and given their all so that they might have this chance to compete at the highest level.

Its exactly the same thing. You took what I said completely out of context. God doesnt CARE if its life or death or just a little game. To Him, it all matters.

I'm really so tired of people claiming that God doesn't care about little matters like these. Like how I'm praying with all my heart and soul that Mark Martin wins the Daytona 500. Because its "just" a race *which it never is with me*, that God shouldnt listen?? Yeah, I'm sure that's the case.

The Bible says that "where two or more are gathered in My name, there I am also". Period. It doesnt say "where two or more are gathered in My name, only when it has to do with spiritual matters...".

[Genna14]

Did Plaxico Burress thank God before he started crying and the interview ended?
He gave ALL THE GLORY TO GOD!

[Tracey]

:eek: hahaha I am sorry but I can't help but do anything but laugh at how ridiculous this is. The sooner people realize that we are all different and unique the better off things would be. Just because we see differently on certain issues doesn't mean that one is right and one is wrong. It's silly to sit here and go back and forth on something like this. Quite amusing at times though hehehe.

All the glory to God for the first one to realize that we are all unique and that's ok.

[middletree]

:eek: hahaha I am sorry but I can't help but do anything but laugh at how ridiculous this is.

I'm laughing, too. And I'm scratching my head.

[RevZeek]

Maybe I missed it but is anyone going to Disneyland? :D Seriously, do they still do that?

btw...if I were Eli, I'd be saying this to Peyton:

[Tracey]

I'm laughing, too. And I'm scratching my head.

glad i am not the only one:o

[middletree]

And God had absolutely nothing to do with it because a lowly football game doesnt require His immidiate attention?? GIVE ME A BREAK PEOPLE GIVE THE GLORY WHERE IT BELONGS GOD! You are giving the glory to MEN.

Who said God didn't give it His attention? I sure didn't. God is sovereign over all the earth, and is interested in how we, as humans handle life's challenges. That is a far cry from saying that He makes sure the correct team wins. It's not about the destination, as they say; it's the journey. God gave those men (on both teams) great gifts so that they could compete. He didn't make one team win, because like I said, both sides have people like you praying for them.

They played hard SURE, but what it all comes down to is God's intervention and the last time I checked "He uses the FOOLISH things of this world to confound the WISE".

I am not sure why you included this, but OK.


I got a message for Bilichick CHEATERS NEVER PROSPER.


Oh. So that's what this is about? The fact that the Patriots got caught cheating? That explains everything. I guess you do see it as an Israelites vs. Philistines thing, then. OK.

Prayer is supplicating God for what you desire or need. God listens to all His children's prayers! ALL OF THEM! This includes ones that involve games.


Wow. I have no response to this.

What makes you think God doesnt care about a football game??? I'd like you to show me in the Bible where it says that God doesnt answer prayers about matters that are NOT spiritual??

I never said that, and I think that you have completely misunderstood everything I have said to this point, so I am leaving this conversation. Have a nice day. BTW, the graphic looks very good.

[Tracey]

<------------------- is still lmbo. Thank God for the talen to lmbo and scratch my head at the same time lol Have a blessed day guys.

[VerbumReale]

Some of the players of the Giants are Christians and I believe He answered their prayers because they give glory to Him.



Just off the top of my head I can think of Kyle Brady and Junior Seau on the Patriots who are Christians. And I am sure there are many others. What of their prayers??? Doesn't God hear their prayers?? Kyle Brady lost his mother this year and the Patriots buried a teammate before the season started. Don't they deserve God's favor as much as anyone on the Giants?? Oh but let me guess this is about spygate?? So what the Giants aren't sinners?? What about the prideful arrogance that Eli Manning showed when he thought he was too good to play for the Chargers?? Belichik has paid the piper for spygate. He lost a first-round draft pick next year and now Arlen Spector is demanding further investigation.

This isn't about not giving God glory and it is very insulting for you to insiunate that it is. It's about recognizing that God is concerned with reconciling sinners first and foremost, not with the outcome of a football game. It's not about saying God couldn't have influenced the outcome of the football game, it's about recognizing that such things don't really have anything to do with the furthering of His kingdom. Not that the furthering of His kingdom doesn't take place in the midst of football games, but it really has nothing to do with who wins or loses, it happens much more in moments like these below.

[Jason]

Man, I must be a heathen. I prayed for better Super Bowl commercials and I didn't get any.

[Andi]

Man, I must be a heathen. I prayed for better Super Bowl commercials and I didn't get any.

what?

I liked 3 commercials.

The two with the baby that was talking about buying stocks and the one with the car that almost hit the squirrel and all the forest animals screaming for him. :D

As far as the actual game went - I was for the Offense. I just wanted a good game - and finally got one in the 4th! :cool:

[Tracey]

Man, I must be a heathen. I prayed for better Super Bowl commercials and I didn't get any.

HAHAHAHAHAHA You said it man rofl

there were only like 3 commercials I liked too. The squirrel, the heart, and justin timberlake were pretty funny.

[middletree]

Speaking of the commercials, there was one for a movie with Clooney about football. I have to say that I can't recall the last time I was so underwhelmed by a movie trailer. That flick cannot possibly be good.

[Andi]

I don't remember that one. Clooney and football? Good gosh - those 2 don't mix at all.

btw - love the new av ;)

[Jason]

I actually liked the Coke blimp commercial. Yay for Charlie Brown!

[Valpo]

Jason-

My dorm room erupted in euphoria, superseded only by the Giants final drive and the clock running out, when charlie brown came up with that bottle.

My personal favorite though was the dorito's one when the life size mouse busted out of the wall and beat up the guy trying to catch the mouse. And as always Bud Light put on a funny show.

[lilmikey]

Man, I must be a heathen. I prayed for better Super Bowl commercials and I didn't get any.

hahahahahahahahahahah

[lilmikey]

I dont dislike the Patriots but I had this insane malicious desire to see the Giants ruin their perfect season:D :D :D

[lilmikey]

Who said God didn't give it His attention? I sure didn't. God is sovereign over all the earth, and is interested in how we, as humans handle life's challenges. That is a far cry from saying that He makes sure the correct team wins. It's not about the destination, as they say; it's the journey. God gave those men (on both teams) great gifts so that they could compete. He didn't make one team win, because like I said, both sides have people like you praying for them.



I am not sure why you included this, but OK.



Oh. So that's what this is about? The fact that the Patriots got caught cheating? That explains everything. I guess you do see it as an Israelites vs. Philistines thing, then. OK.



Wow. I have no response to this.



I never said that, and I think that you have completely misunderstood everything I have said to this point, so I am leaving this conversation. Have a nice day. BTW, the graphic looks very good.

I knew this would turn into a debate of some kind:D :D :D :rolleyes:

[Dan!]

:eek: hahaha I am sorry but I can't help but do anything but laugh at how ridiculous this is. The sooner people realize that we are all different and unique the better off things would be. Just because we see differently on certain issues doesn't mean that one is right and one is wrong. It's silly to sit here and go back and forth on something like this. Quite amusing at times though hehehe.

All the glory to God for the first one to realize that we are all unique and that's ok.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

My favorite part of the festivities was also when Charlie Brown snagged the Coke, but I was so afraid that Lucy would show up and spoil things.

[Jason]

My favorite part of the festivities was also when Charlie Brown snagged the Coke, but I was so afraid that Lucy would show up and spoil things.

Good thing she didn't!

[rossid]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3230389

Hi I'm Tom Brady. My ankle hurts so I'm not staying home from the Pro Bowl. It has nothing to do with LOSING last nite.

Hi I'm Randy Moss and I do what I please.

:rolleyes:

[VerbumReale]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3230389


Hi I'm Randy Moss and I do what I please.

:rolleyes:

But wait a minute, according to the dolts on ESPN, Moss has changed. He's turned over a new leaf, he's a new man.

You mean he's still self-centered??? Hunh??

[middletree]

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3230389

Hi I'm Tom Brady. My ankle hurts so I'm not staying home from the Pro Bowl. It has nothing to do with LOSING last nite.

Hi I'm Randy Moss and I do what I please.

:rolleyes:

I don't any problem with any player not wanting to play the Pro Bowl.

[clemsontigers23]

This is one reason why I'm so fed up with some of the people on here. Seriously, I know God doesn't pull for one team over another, but God does use situations such as these in each and every person's life on that field and in those organizations. The Patriots needed to lose, just like the Giants needed to win. Players on both sides will be blessed because of it. Why turn the greatest upset in Super Bowl history into a religious debate? Let's talk about that drive Eli Manning executed, and how he got away from 4 Patriots defenders and then threw a pass that enabled Tyree to make an incredible catch. Don't turn this into a religious debate. Just enjoy the outcome of the game.

I don't any problem with any player not wanting to play the Pro Bowl.

I do. They were voted there by the fans and the game is for the fans. But, of course, Brady and Moss don't care about the fans, or for that matter, anyone but themselves.

[Yippy]

. But, of course, Brady and Moss don't care about the fans, or for that matter, anyone but themselves.
They gave the fans an 18-0 season. Not too bad for being selfish.

Well, we're Pats fans and enjoyed the nailbiting up until that last horrible catch. We decided to forego the church Super Bowl party, invite some Pats fans over and stay home to watch the game. We all had to keep reminding ourselves that we're Christians and don't believe in superstition, that it's okay to go get something to drink or move to the other side of the couch. Ultimately, it was my daughter's fault the Pats lost for going into the other room the last minute of the game cause she was too nervous to watch.;) :D

There was only one commercial that got a chuckle out of me, but I can't remember what it was about. I thought they were all pretty lame...or maybe desperate is a better word for it. I wanted to laugh...honest.:D

[middletree]

This is one reason why I'm so fed up with some of the people on here. Seriously, I know God doesn't pull for one team over another, but God does use situations such as these in each and every person's life on that field and in those organizations.


Nobody said otherwise. I don't see why you need to point this fact out, since everybody agrees. My point was specifically about praying that one team would win, and when that team did win, automatically chalking it up to God answering that prayer. That has nothing to do with God using everyday situations to build us up.


Why turn the greatest upset in Super Bowl history into a religious debate?

Good question. Ask the person who first brought up the idea of God making the Giants win in answer to prayer. That's where the discussion of the game turned into a religious debate.

If you want to turn away from that discussion, I'll help you out: I disagree with you that this is the greatest upset in SB history. Discuss.


I do. They were voted there by the fans and the game is for the fans.

OK.

[Jake]

The amount of respect you can lose for somebody by reading their posts baffles me...

I won't say which side I"m on concerning the whole prayer thing, because I don't want to blast any one publicly. If you're concerned enough with how I feel, PM me.

[VerbumReale]

This is one reason why I'm so fed up with some of the people on here. Seriously, I know God doesn't pull for one team over another, but God does use situations such as these in each and every person's life on that field and in those organizations. The Patriots needed to lose, just like the Giants needed to win. Players on both sides will be blessed because of it.


As Tree pointed out we are not the ones turning this into a theological debate. The idea was put forth that God orchestrated the Giants victory. That is when the discussion became theological. A person shouldn't make a statement like that and then act surprised when people react. And when people disagreed the only response was to accuse us of not giving God enough glory.

You suggest that the Pats needed to lose. Why? For that matter why did the Giants need to win?? This is the third Super Bowl win in their history. That's not as much as the 49ers or Steelers or Cowboys, but it's still among the leaders in the league in this category. So why?? Please tell me that you are not suggesting that this was not some sort of divine retribution for Spygate.

You suggest that God felt that the Giants needed this win. Well what does that say about fans in Cleveland, Minnesota, Detroit, Arizona (sorry Jason) and other locations where teams have never won a Super Bowl and in some cases never even been to one? If Giants fans "need" a Super Bowl win why not them??

I agree that God will use these situations to do His will but I believe when it comes to the actual wins and losses, God pretty much leaves that in the hands of the players and the officials.

[Mr.Elwood]

hhhmmm...

As for God's intervention on behalf of the Patriots?? Does anyone else think that humbling a man like Belichick was a priority??? How else do you humble a man at the top of his profession in a way that he can not easily evade or excuse himself out of upon reflection?? Maybe have him embarrass himself completely in front of millions on the biggest stage and at the worst possible time in his chosen profession??? Hopefully Belichick won't be such a complete arse to his co-workers (other coaches and players - and fans) or he may just find office politics stabbing him in the back and his rump in a chair facing a committee in Washington. I saw Sunday as a shot across his bow to get his attention and for him to pull his head out of his..... It's time for Bill to come back and stop acting like disgruntled child. Time to be an adult and co-exist with the rest of the professionals on your job. He clearly takes his job waaaayyy to serious, and Sunday was a message to remember other aspect of living.... well to me that's what I saw (after I got done cursing his childish behavior at the end of the game).

As for God's intervention for the Giants?? Can anyone dispute the ramifications to all those younger kids who saw that one play? There was the: Amazing escape; and then the chuck-and-pray; and then the incredible catch, all at just the perfect time. Kids for decades to come will be doing that very thing in streets and parks and being KIDS. Living and dreaming of one day just getting the chance to play the game the way Eli did or being that "who is that receiver guy again" out of nowhere to make one the greatest catches in the history of the Superbowl. If not for that single play and the characters who produced it, we would have been stuck with the robotic, emotionless, football factory type of champion that would have done very little to inspire kids around the globe to dream big and never quit.. .......maybe I'm just loopy like that, but that's what I saw

The individual messages to me where about as obvious as a burning bush and simply cannot be denied as "players play the game and stuff happens...etc"...

anyway.. back to whatever it was y'all were doing..

[middletree]

Can anyone dispute the ramifications to all those younger kids who saw that one play? There was the: Amazing escape; and then the chuck-and-pray; and then the incredible catch, all at just the perfect time. Kids for decades to come will be doing that very thing in streets and parks and being KIDS.

The individual messages to me where about as obvious as a burning bush and simply cannot be denied as "players play the game and stuff happens...etc"...


Here's where I think I have been misunderstood. I absolutely agree that God can and will use that play for inspirational purposes. He gave the players gifts so that they could play at the highest level. That is a completely separate thing, though, from Him determining the winner.

As for the cheating thing, do we really think that God will keep one team from winning because of sin? Because there is no doubt that both teams, as well as the other 30 NFL teams, have people who cheat. Linemen put vaseline on their jerseys. Receivers put stick-em on their hands. Coaches find ways to figure out what the other team is up to. And, of course, there are steroids. But even beyond cheating, what about players who regularly fornicate, or get drunk or engage in other sins that young men engage in?

Of course, it's not right, and I certainly don't condone it. But the point is that one team does not have a monopoly on such behavior. Conversely, both teams have Christian players and coaches who are living according to biblical principles. I don't see how it's logical to point out one behavior (spygate) and say that among all the other activities, good and bad, that these players an coaches are engaged in, that God is going to cherry-pick one activity, and then only on one team, and make sure they lose.

[VerbumReale]

As for the cheating thing, do we really think that God will keep one team from winning because of sin? Because there is no doubt that both teams, as well as the other 30 NFL teams, have people who cheat. Linemen put vaseline on their jerseys. Receivers put stick-em on their hands. Coaches find ways to figure out what the other team is up to. And, of course, there are steroids. But even beyond cheating, what about players who regularly fornicate, or get drunk or engage in other sins that young men engage in?

Of course, it's not right, and I certainly don't condone it. But the point is that one team does not have a monopoly on such behavior. Conversely, both teams have Christian players and coaches who are living according to biblical principles. I don't see how it's logical to point out one behavior (spygate) and say that among all the other activities, good and bad, that these players an coaches are engaged in, that God is going to cherry-pick one activity, and then only on one team, and make sure they lose.


Bravo!!! Exactly what I have been trying to say. The idea that the Giants victory was some sort of divine retribution is absurd. Sin is sin and both of these teams are made up of sinners. It makes no sense to think that God would pick cheating on football out of all the other sin that exists in the lives of these players and coaches.

[VerbumReale]

The individual messages to me where about as obvious as a burning bush and simply cannot be denied as "players play the game and stuff happens...etc"...

anyway.. back to whatever it was y'all were doing..

The burning bush??? Really??? Sorry, gotta disagree. It can be denied very easily.

Why would God pick the Giants of all teams to set a good example?? Couldn't He have done the same with the Packers or the Bucs?? And, if we are to believe that this was the case for this Super Bowl than certainly that must be the cae for Super Bowls past and all football games for that matter. So what He must not believe that the Detroit Lions could possibly be used to set any sort of example?

And who's to say that there isn't somebody on the Pats that He couldn't have used even though they were led by the horrible cheater devil-man Bill Belichik?? Kyle Brady is a very faithful Christian and speaks very openly about his faith to as many people as he can. He is very active in youth-related programs so a lot of youth would know who he is. Why not make him have such a great game that he would have been given the MVP and then when interviewed afterword said that through as much as the Super Bowl means to him, it pales in comparison to his faith in Christ. Do you really think that a crcus catch is more in line with the great commission than something like that? And yes He could have done that with Giants players, but there weren't any bold testimonies from Giants players. And even if there were that doesn't negate the fact that there are faithful players on both teams and all over the league. If God were going to use the Super Bowl to get a message do you really think the message would be for kids to try hard??? Not that that's a bad message. But if God was going to use the Super Bowl to communicate a message to the world don't you think that message would be more like one that would point to Christ and said "This is my Son the beloved with Him I am well pleased. Listen to Him." Maybe I am loopy but I just think that God is much more interested in drawing people to faith in His Son than simply saying to them "try hard."

And what you see as robotic and emotionless ,others (including kids) might see as focused. Besides, that stereotype of the Pats is a reach and doesn't work. I seem to recall Junior Seau and a few other player hugging each other after the Pats scored their last touchdown. And duirng the national anthem there were Pats players who were very moved. This projecting of Belichik's characteristics onto his players doesn't work.

[jrmitch]

Not to be a wet blanket, but to steer things a little back towards the game....:D

First, serve up the crow - I blew it on my pick. The Giants played well and deserve the win.

Second, it's starting to annoy me just a little that lost in the shuffle of the Super Bowl hype is that this isn't the Giants third NFL championship. Third Super Bowl win, yes.....but it's their 10th NFL title (moving them into second place for the most NFL championships behind Green Bay). I just find it to be a little demeaning to past champions that in the Super Hype we lose sight of the fact that the NFL championship has been around a lot longer than the Super Bowl, and that only the great Super Bowl teams (and players) seem to merit consideration as the best in history. Thoughts?

[3D NC fan]

Maybe I missed it but is anyone going to Disneyland? :D Seriously, do they still do that?



Saw the commercial last night: From the Super Bowl “field of dreams” to the place “where dreams come true,” Super Bowl XLII MVP Eli Manning of the New York Giants Sunday night became the latest sports hero to seal victory by shouting the famous phrase “I’m going to Disneyland!”

The pronouncement, captured on tape at the University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale, Ariz., just moments after the Giants’ dramatic 17-14 upset victory over the previously undefeated New England Patriots in Super Bowl XLII, became the latest episode of the “I’m going to Disneyland/I’m going to Disney World” commercial produced over a 22-year span.

[Mr.Elwood]

Did I mention Giants as a team, or a particular play by two players: Eli who was on he was to being run out of town as recently as December, and Tyre who is the “who is that guy again?”. Did I mention anything about winning??

As for why the Giants?? Probably because they had Eli and Tyre and that’s who needed to be there at that time.. trying to argue who deserves it or could have deserved it is just stupid..


As for the Patriots: Getting punished for cheating is “mans law” and not from God. I never mentioned cheating because it’s irrelevant to what happened Sunday.
Being HUMBLED is from God, being a jerk at every possible opportunity is from Belichick. I could care less (in general terms) if he ever gets caught. I know what happened on Sunday completely twisted his head into knots and he is still trying figure out: “How could this happen to me, I’m Bill Belichick, suuupppppeeeer genius”. Hopefully someone close to him will whisper some kind words and he’ll figure out: That acting like a total arse to everyone he deems unworthy is not a way to go through life. That his status a genius can be ripped away as fast as it was given: That ultimately he is just an old man coaching a kids playground game being played by millionaire adults: That he needs to stop acting like HE is somehow making it bigger than it is….

We shall see how that unfolds. A man with his passion and knowledge would do modern day miracles with inner city kids if he could see past himself for a few minutes

Robotic?? If you actually watched and listened to the pres conferences from the Patriots this year, they simply used a script issued by the coach and repeated it until the Press took the hint and gave up.
Seau, Moss..?? everyone shows emotion on touchdowns and during the anthem…. aahh… never mid.. this get pointless..


I hope that truly clarifies my point… and I refuse to turn this into a current events thread to satisfy whatever need some of you have to argue about every flipp’n thing.. so I’m out of here..
Thanks for destroying yet one more forum around here.

[Dan!]

Here's where I think I have been misunderstood. I absolutely agree that God can and will use that play for inspirational purposes. He gave the players gifts so that they could play at the highest level. That is a completely separate thing, though, from Him determining the winner.

As for the cheating thing, do we really think that God will keep one team from winning because of sin? Because there is no doubt that both teams, as well as the other 30 NFL teams, have people who cheat. Linemen put vaseline on their jerseys. Receivers put stick-em on their hands. Coaches find ways to figure out what the other team is up to. And, of course, there are steroids. But even beyond cheating, what about players who regularly fornicate, or get drunk or engage in other sins that young men engage in?

Of course, it's not right, and I certainly don't condone it. But the point is that one team does not have a monopoly on such behavior. Conversely, both teams have Christian players and coaches who are living according to biblical principles. I don't see how it's logical to point out one behavior (spygate) and say that among all the other activities, good and bad, that these players an coaches are engaged in, that God is going to cherry-pick one activity, and then only on one team, and make sure they lose.

Well said. While this debate has been interesting, let's take the talk back to the game itself and move the theology of God's hand (or not) in sports to the Word forum.

[middletree]

Did I mention Giants as a team, or a particular play by two players: Eli who was on he was to being run out of town as recently as December, and Tyre who is the “who is that guy again?”. Did I mention anything about winning??

The tone of your post indicated that you were agreeing with those who said that the Giants' victory was an answer to prayer. I apologize if I misunderstood.

[Valpo]

New York City jam packed with people today, no better place on earth to have a sports championship celebration. The scene is absolutely wild there, it kills me that I am not home, but ESPNews is airing ABC NY's coverage of the parade. Ticker Tape parade, 50 tons of confetti, millions of Giant fans, and the Super Bowl champs, makes for a heck of a day!

[VerbumReale]

Did I mention Giants as a team, or a particular play by two players: Eli who was on he was to being run out of town as recently as December, and Tyre who is the “who is that guy again?”. Did I mention anything about winning??

As for why the Giants?? Probably because they had Eli and Tyre and that’s who needed to be there at that time.. trying to argue who deserves it or could have deserved it is just stupid..


As for the Patriots: Getting punished for cheating is “mans law” and not from God. I never mentioned cheating because it’s irrelevant to what happened Sunday.
Being HUMBLED is from God, being a jerk at every possible opportunity is from Belichick. I could care less (in general terms) if he ever gets caught. I know what happened on Sunday completely twisted his head into knots and he is still trying figure out: “How could this happen to me, I’m Bill Belichick, suuupppppeeeer genius”. Hopefully someone close to him will whisper some kind words and he’ll figure out: That acting like a total arse to everyone he deems unworthy is not a way to go through life. That his status a genius can be ripped away as fast as it was given: That ultimately he is just an old man coaching a kids playground game being played by millionaire adults: That he needs to stop acting like HE is somehow making it bigger than it is….

We shall see how that unfolds. A man with his passion and knowledge would do modern day miracles with inner city kids if he could see past himself for a few minutes

Robotic?? If you actually watched and listened to the pres conferences from the Patriots this year, they simply used a script issued by the coach and repeated it until the Press took the hint and gave up.
Seau, Moss..?? everyone shows emotion on touchdowns and during the anthem…. aahh… never mid.. this get pointless..


I hope that truly clarifies my point… and I refuse to turn this into a current events thread to satisfy whatever need some of you have to argue about every flipp’n thing.. so I’m out of here..
Thanks for destroying yet one more forum around here.

Ok so if this was about being humbled?? Then what about Eli?? Since when did he become the picture of humility??? Isn't this the guy who thought he was too good to play for the Chargers?? I'd say he was in need of a little humility himself.

And who are you to say what this is doing to Belichik's mind?? Do you read minds??

And I have watched the Patriots press conferences and yes it appears that they have been advised on how much to say and not to say, but I have news for you that happens on all teams, even the oh so righteous Giants. But that doesn't mean they are reading a script. If you watch Tom Brady at his press conferences you would see that he often jokes with the media and has fun with them as do many of the players on the Pats. And you want to talk about a robotic press-conference and someone who has clearly been coached on what to to say I got two words for you; Eli Manning.

And you criticize me for pointing out when the Pats players showed emotion after a touchdown and during the national anthem. Well you were the one that called them emotionless.

And who's destroying the forum?? If you don't like the conversation then don't enter into it. But if you're going to then don't accuse someone of destroying the forum simply because they disagree with you.

[Valpo]

"Plax says we're only going to score 17 points? Alright. (chuckle, chuckle, chuckle, chuckle, chuckle)."

Plax spotted Brady and co. too many points....how bout that?

[middletree]

"Plax says we're only going to score 17 points? Alright. (chuckle, chuckle, chuckle, chuckle, chuckle)."

Plax spotted Brady and co. too many points....how bout that?

You bring up a good point. Perhaps Plax knew something. Perhaps he had some telling video tape of the Patriots offensive game plan and signals???!!??!?!?!?

Please note I am kidding. Giants earned it.

[Valpo]

You bring up a good point. Perhaps Plax knew something. Perhaps he had some telling video tape of the Patriots offensive game plan and signals???!!??!?!?!?

Please note I am kidding. Giants earned it.

hahaha, i know you are

The City is crazy right now, people tossing papers from office buildings, toilet paper (presumably not used) being tossed by the rolls, players jumping off floats to sign autographs and slap hands with the fans, fans tossing merchandise at the floats and players catching and signing and throwing them back...pretty neat to see, I will re-iterate I am very upset to be in Indiana on this great day in New York sports history.

[VerbumReale]

OK I promise this is the last time I will bring up any sort of theological spin to this thread. I just want to say if it seems like I am making a big deal out of this it is simply because I find the whole theology of "We will win because God is on our side" to be very troubling and frankly something that probably actually steers unbelievers away from Christianity rather than leads them to it. I know that is probably not what any of you were trying to say.

I know that you were just trying to say that God can and does use situations like the Super Bowl and I agree. God can and will use whatever situation He can. This is not about me not wanting to give God glory. I just don't think He pre-ordains the competitive outcome of these events. I think He works in the midst of all of that in situations like what I pointed to earlier; brothers in Christ uniting together after the game in prayer. I think everything God does is centered around one thing; reconciling sinners to Himself by drawing people to faith in His Son Christ Jesus. I don't think that pre-ordaining the outcome of a Super Bowl does that. If He was looking to humble someone, what is more humbling than the Gospel?? Certainly the Gospel is more humbling than losing a football game. Apparently some think that God would pre-ordain the outcome. That's fine I disagree. And I hope that clarifies what I was trying to say.

And I never meant to come across as beligerent or offensive and I apologize to Mr. Elwood and Geena 20 and any others whom I might have upset. And like I said, I will no longer bring theology into this.

[Jason]

God hates the Cardinals.

[RevZeek]

Saw the commercial last night: From the Super Bowl “field of dreams” to the place “where dreams come true,” Super Bowl XLII MVP Eli Manning of the New York Giants Sunday night became the latest sports hero to seal victory by shouting the famous phrase “I’m going to Disneyland!”

The pronouncement, captured on tape at the University of Phoenix Stadium in Glendale, Ariz., just moments after the Giants’ dramatic 17-14 upset victory over the previously undefeated New England Patriots in Super Bowl XLII, became the latest episode of the “I’m going to Disneyland/I’m going to Disney World” commercial produced over a 22-year span.

Thanks! :D

[Valpo]

Giants were giddy at City Hall today, quite a sight to see, still can't get over this either haha.

[rossid]

God hates the Cardinals.
Not as much as god hates the Raiders.

Al Davis must hate god.

[jrmitch]

Not as much as god hates the Raiders.

Al Davis must hate god.Al Davis is the anti-Christ. Of course, that's just the position of Bronco nation, where hating Al Davis is our specialty. Other than that I'm totally lacking in scriptural support for this point of view....:D

[Jake]

Not as much as god hates the Raiders.

Al Davis must hate god.

I thought it was because Al Davis picked on Jesus in grade school...

If we could translate this warped theology to other sports, would it be safe for me to say that God hates my Cubbies?

[Jason]

If we could translate this warped theology to other sports, would it be safe for me to say that God hates my Cubbies?

Yes He does. ;)

[Jake]

Yes He does. ;)

Crap...crap crap crap

If we're identifying teams that "NEED" a championship, how aren't the Cubs at the top of that list?

[Jason]

Crap...crap crap crap

If we're identifying teams that "NEED" a championship, how aren't the Cubs at the top of that list?

The Cardinals too. We've never even been to the Super Bowl.

[ZippyApplePants]

Al Davis is the anti-Christ. Of course, that's just the position of Bronco nation, where hating Al Davis is our specialty. Other than that I'm totally lacking in scriptural support for this point of view....:D

HA! That's very funny. Although I'd have an easier time disliking them if they won more often. It takes all the fun out of it for me when they stink.

[VerbumReale]

Al Davis is the anti-Christ. Of course, that's just the position of Bronco nation, where hating Al Davis is our specialty. Other than that I'm totally lacking in scriptural support for this point of view....:D


Actually in the 10th chapter of the book of Howie (Long that is) in the New Revised Tom Flores translation, John Elway is clearly identified as the anti-Christ. Of course the book of Howie is not quite canon, but there it is.;) :D

[middletree]

The Cardinals too. We've never even been to the Super Bowl.

Well, you have hosted it a few times, so that's something.

[RevZeek]

Al Davis is the anti-Christ. Of course, that's just the position of Bronco nation, where hating Al Davis is our specialty. Other than that I'm totally lacking in scriptural support for this point of view....:D

Why did I read this while drinking coffee...now I need to change my shirt! :D

[Jason]

Well, you have hosted it a few times, so that's something.

Yes, money for the economy.

[ZippyApplePants]

Why did I read this while drinking coffee...now I need to change my shirt! :D

Ah yes, a very imprtant lesson to learn about the boards. Don't drink and read! :D

[jrmitch]

Actually in the 10th chapter of the book of Howie (Long that is) in the New Revised Tom Flores translation, John Elway is clearly identified as the anti-Christ. Of course the book of Howie is not quite canon, but there it is.;) :DHmmmm...sounds like a false prophet to me.......:D ;)

Y'know what I really want to see happen come this April? I want to see Denver be able to grab Howie's son Chris in the NFL draft. (Just the thought of Howie having to root for the Broncos cracks me up). I'm sure that Elway would be willing to share his private suite with Howie when the Raiders come to town.......:D

[jrmitch]

Why did I read this while drinking coffee...now I need to change my shirt! :DOooops...sorry 'bout that.........:D

[ZippyApplePants]

Hmmmm...sounds like a false prophet to me.......:D ;)

Y'know what I really want to see happen come this April? I want to see Denver be able to grab Howie's son Chris in the NFL draft. (Just the thought of Howie having to root for the Broncos cracks me up). I'm sure that Elway would be willing to share his private suite with Howie when the Raiders come to town.......:D

That private suite wouldn't happen to be in a dark alley would it?

[Jason]

Hmmmm...sounds like a false prophet to me.......:D ;)

Y'know what I really want to see happen come this April? I want to see Denver be able to grab Howie's son Chris in the NFL draft. (Just the thought of Howie having to root for the Broncos cracks me up). I'm sure that Elway would be willing to share his private suite with Howie when the Raiders come to town.......:D

Elway may be spending a lot of time in Tempe next fall.

[jrmitch]

That private suite wouldn't happen to be in a dark alley would it?Hey, John can still outrun him. :D

[jrmitch]

Elway may be spending a lot of time in Tempe next fall.Ya think?! Glad Jack chose the Sun Devils over Stanford. That way he's not gonna be as much in the shadow of his dad.

[Jason]

Ya think?! Glad Jack chose the Sun Devils over Stanford. That way he's not gonna be as much in the shadow of his dad.

Indeed. And Jack choosing ASU will be a big boon for the Sun Devils' recruiting.

[ZippyApplePants]

Hey, John can still outrun him. :D

I don't think that's saying much.

[VerbumReale]

Hmmmm...sounds like a false prophet to me.......:D ;)

Y'know what I really want to see happen come this April? I want to see Denver be able to grab Howie's son Chris in the NFL draft. (Just the thought of Howie having to root for the Broncos cracks me up). I'm sure that Elway would be willing to share his private suite with Howie when the Raiders come to town.......:D

I don't know. Most mock-drafts have him going fairly early I don't know if the Broncos will be able to get him without trading up. It's not inconceivable to think that he could end up in the Silver and Black at 4 but honestly given the pathetic state of the Raider's organization right now, if I'm Howie I don't know if I would want my son going to the Raiders. I am sure he doesn't want him going to the Broncos or the Chargers or heaven forbid, the Chefs, but maybe a nice stable NFC team.

[rossid]

Al Davis is the anti-Christ. Of course, that's just the position of Bronco nation, where hating Al Davis is our specialty. Other than that I'm totally lacking in scriptural support for this point of view....:DHey brothuh, I'm reading the Bronco fan comments, during the Raiduhs win :P at Mile High. No one hates anyone more than Bronco fans hate Raiduh fans. Those posts were awful! I mean Chiefs, Chargers, whatever, mix and match. Denver hates Oakland.

[VerbumReale]

Hey brothuh, I'm reading the Bronco fan comments, during the Raiduhs win :P at Mile High. No one hates anyone more than Bronco fans hate Raiduh fans. Those posts were awful! I mean Chiefs, Chargers, whatever, mix and match. Denver hates Oakland.


Actually I am much more anti-chief and anti-bolt than I am anti-Bronco. Although I definitely do not like the Broncos, I really can't stand the bolts or the chiefs.

I think it has something to do with this guy.

[jrmitch]

Hey brothuh, I'm reading the Bronco fan comments, during the Raiduhs win :P at Mile High. No one hates anyone more than Bronco fans hate Raiduh fans. Those posts were awful! I mean Chiefs, Chargers, whatever, mix and match. Denver hates Oakland.Yeah, it's definitely a long-standing animosity that's been seething for decades. It all goes back to the era of a certain Raider coach who had a girth almost as big as his mouth and has been known to show up in a TV booth every now and then.....:D

Though it's fun to pick on the boys in black I'm actually respectful of the Raiders. There are several Oakland players whom I've admired in the past (specifically Tim Brown, Rich Gannon, Howie, Snake, and the Ghost). I actually dislike the Queefs.....er, Chiefs much more than I do Oakland. If you think our fans are nasty towards Oakland (which I admit they are) that's often milder than how Chiefs fans behave in Kansas City towards the Broncos and our fans. I went to a Broncos/Chiefs game in Arrowhead a couple of years ago and had guys in the stands actually start trying to rip the Broncos jersey off of me. (There were several other Chiefs fans close by cheering them on). I had a couple of things in my favor: first, I'm 6-2 and weigh in at 260 - I'm not easy to push around. Also, a nearby usher saw the trouble developing, called for help, and when the dust settled we'd somehow managed to avoid a barroom brawl (still not sure how) and 5 Chiefs fans were ejected from Arrowhead. We were also given seats in a different section of the stadium for the rest of the game, and the staff at Arrowhead was overtly courteous and apologetic. But the fans were flat crazy. :eek:

[jrmitch]

I don't know. Most mock-drafts have him going fairly early I don't know if the Broncos will be able to get him without trading up. It's not inconceivable to think that he could end up in the Silver and Black at 4 but honestly given the pathetic state of the Raider's organization right now, if I'm Howie I don't know if I would want my son going to the Raiders. I am sure he doesn't want him going to the Broncos or the Chargers or heaven forbid, the Chefs, but maybe a nice stable NFC team.Yeah, he'll be long gone before Denver picks in the #12 spot. But I can dream.....:D

[VerbumReale]

Yeah, it's definitely a long-standing animosity that's been seething for decades. It all goes back to the era of a certain Raider coach who had a girth almost as big as his mouth and has been known to show up in a TV booth every now and then.....:D


Yes yes it's coming to me. Would this individual be one who seems to derive a certain pleasure in referencing one Brett Favre whenever he can??:D