Woman reading bible aloud removed from bus

[sandyandporter]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,319346,00.html

Texas Woman Forced to Leave Bus After Reading Bible Out Loud
Tuesday , January 01, 2008



ADVERTISEMENTA Texas woman is demanding an apology from her city’s mass transit system after she was booted off a bus for reading the Bible aloud, MyFoxDFW.com reported Monday.

Christine Lutz was on her way to church and reading passages to her children on The T bus when the driver suddenly interrupted her.

"She asked me to stop reading my Bible," Lutz told MyFoxDFW.com. "I said, 'No, I'm reading the Bible, I'm teaching the kids, I'm going to continue.' And I continued."

Click here to read the full report on MyFoxDFW.com.

Next thing Lutz knew, the bus had pulled over and she was being escorted into a supervisor’s van, which took the family to church, MyFoxDFW.com reported.

A spokeswoman for The T said even if Lutz had been reading "Moby Dick" or the Pledge of Allegiance, the same outcome would have occurred.


I'm not sure I believe that last statement.

[clemsontigers23]

Wow, that really is amazing. Sounds like her "freedom of religion" was being restricted. Those Muslims who were praying and chanting on the plane sued the plane company. I wonder what this woman's going to do.

[Sam!]

If reading aloud is not permitted, it's got nothing to do with religious freedom. The freedom to read allowed from a book that did not exist in the time of Christ is not foundational to Christianity!

[sandyandporter]

If reading aloud is not permitted, it's got nothing to do with religious freedom. The freedom to read allowed from a book that did not exist in the time of Christ is not foundational to Christianity!

You lost me.....

[Valpo]

I'm a tad confused, I don't think anyone would freak out over her reading to her children, although that is her story.

Sam is saying that if someone is not allowed to read aloud on a public transportation vehicle it neither violates freedom of religion nor does it hinder the advancement of the kingdom of God

[The Unknown Gomer]

...Those Muslims who were praying and chanting on the plane sued the plane company.

Did they win? Or is it still ongoing? Anyone know?

If reading aloud is not permitted, it's got nothing to do with religious freedom...

Lutz said she was sitting in the back of the bus, but wasn't being disruptive. She claimed she was stunned when the bus driver interrupted her reading.

"She asked me to stop reading my Bible," Lutz told FOX 4. "I said, 'No, I'm reading the Bible, I'm teaching the kids, I'm going to continue.' And I continued."

Lutz said the next thing she knew, the bus had pulled over and she was being escorted into a supervisor's van, which then took her and her family to church.

Officials at The T said the incident had nothing to do with what Lutz was reading, just the fact that she was simply making too much noise. Signs on the bus warn against playing radios and loud behavior. Transportation officials claimed they asked Lutz to quiet down, and when she refused, they were forced to remove her from the bus.

Religious freedom being restricted? Or a parent with an attitude problem?

It just depends on which version of the story you believe, whether she was being disruptive or not. Based on what little info I have, I'd be inclined to side with the bus driver at this point. To just disregard a request from the driver - the person responsible for the bus and its passengers, someone who if I were another passenger, I'd rather NOT be distracted while he's driving - and just continue on like he never said anything, that just says "attitude" to me. And if she's got that kind of attitude, she probably WAS reading too loudly despite what she says. If it was loud enough to distract the driver, enough to make him pull over, I'd think that would be too loud.

At least they didn't just leave her stranded, the supervisor (they actually had to call a supervisor about her? Reason number 2 that makes me think she's got a bit of a 'tude) drove her in their van to church.

Again, just my 2 cents based on what little info I have...

[Salome]

Were there statements from other riders? If she was reading to her children for them alone to hear I'm thinking this wouldn't happen. I'm just wondering if she was reading aloud for all to hear. If that was the case, I wouldn't be in disagreement with the action taken. That's not being respectful to other riders. What wouldn't YOU want to hear if you were a captive audience? Not the least keeping the driver from paying to attention to the job at hand.

Just wondering. Like Unknown said, we're not hearing all sides.

[SueQ]

I had heard on Moody Bible Radio that the way she had been reading was more than "aloud" but more like "loud".....

[Valpo]

I had heard on Moody Bible Radio that the way she had been reading was more than "aloud" but more like "loud".....

yeah i'd figure that myself, but oh well

[danbos]

I'd really be interested to know all the facts before I made a final decision, but at first glance it seems a tad unfair to me that she was asked to stop, but she still should've stopped or at least gone a little quieter after she was asked. I ride the public bus quite frequently between campuses of my college, and people talk very loudly on cellphones and only once have I heard someone asked to be quiet and that was only because of that extremely annoying Nextel beep. But again, I'd really like to know all the facts.

[clemsontigers23]

Did they win? Or is it still ongoing? Anyone know?

I haven't heard, but in August they dropped the passengers from the lawsuit:

http://minnesota.publicradio.org/display/web/2007/08/01/imams/

Minneapolis — (AP) The six imams who were removed from a US Airways flight after passengers reported they were acting suspiciously won't include those passengers in their lawsuit against the airline and police, an attorney for the imams said Wednesday.

Attorney Frederick Goetz of Minneapolis said a motion to amend the complaint to include the names of the individuals responsible for the imams' removal was entered Tuesday in U.S. District Court. He said that list includes the names of airline employees and police officers, but no passengers.

"We've identified the people we think are responsible," he said.

The Islamic religious leaders were removed from the flight last fall after passengers reported what they considered to be suspicious behavior. The imams, who were handcuffed and questioned, claim the airline discriminated against them and violated their civil rights.

Initially, the lawsuit named as defendants John Does who reported the suspicious behavior, later amending that to identify them as those who "may have made false reports" against the imams with the intent to discriminate.

Last week, lawmakers in Congress reached a deal on a homeland security bill to include language, crafted in response to the imams case, that would give immunity from lawsuits to people who report suspicious behavior.

Goetz said the amended complaint had "absolutely nothing to do" with the action in Congress.

On Nov. 20, the imams were at Minneapolis-St. Paul International Airport, preparing to return to Phoenix after attending a conference in Minneapolis.

They have said that three of the men said their evening prayers in the airport terminal before boarding the plane, and that they entered the aircraft individually, except for one member who is blind and needed a guide. Once on the plane, the men did not sit together.

A passenger raised concerns about the imams through a note passed to a flight attendant. Also, witnesses reported that the imams made anti-American comments about the war in Iraq and that some asked for seat belt extensions even though a flight attendant thought they didn't need them.

[lilmikey]

I haven't heard, but in August they dropped the passengers from the lawsuit:

Unless I was there and saw it happen I dont know what to believe it could be that reading aloud on a bus is not permitted or that it was a religious thing I dont know. None of us do really.

[clemsontigers23]

Unless I was there and saw it happen I dont know what to believe it could be that reading aloud on a bus is not permitted or that it was a religious thing I dont know. None of us do really.

I was talking about the imams who were chanting loudly to Allah on the plane and were threatening to sue the passengers who reported them. That would have been bad because people would be scared to report suspicious activity.

[maui sista]

I have used the bus alot and I have seen alot of weird stuff but unless someone is being rude or loud or whatever they are doing is causing a problem I don't see the driver doing anyting about it.
I would like to know what the woman was saying and how loud she was being...I have been in places where people have been alittle over the top telling people about Jesus or trying to make a point...and the one question I have is this...What was her motive for reading outloud? and if it was offending people then why keep it up?
Just a thought.

[Sam!]

Just because things are acceptable or allowed where we live doesn't exclude the possibility that in this woman's town, what she did is against the rules. The local transit authorities are the ones who get to decide, and if drivers are made to feel uncomfortable by something like reading religious texts aloud... shouldn't we stop? Do we really want bus drivers to be upset or uncomfortable while they drive us around?

[sandyandporter]

My immediate reaction (usually not to be trusted! ;) ) was that this was some atheist bus driver trying to squelch the spread of the Gospel.:eek: Now that I've thought about it.... I guess you do need the whole story to pass judgement (maybe someday I'll think about that FIRST instead of LATER).

I really am SUCH a reactionary..... how bout ya'll stop and say a quick prayer for me! It might help!

[pamcharlie]

Yipes what is going on in texas if a person is not allowed to read the bible on the bus where is a person allowed to read the word of God it's not as if she was bible bashing any of the other passengers may be God told her to read the bible out aloud to minister to the other passengers. I read my bible when i am having lunch when i am out in town shopping and i don't get told not to read my bible etc i really think as western christians we should be really grateful that we can read our bibles in public because there are some countries where our brothers and sisters in jesus can not read the bible in public or pray or worship etc in the real risk of endangering their lives and probable imprisonment

[Pouye]

What is "too loud"? I've heard people be loud and talk, laugh, and joke on public transport systems (sometimes unsavory jokes, too). Another thing is, the Gospel (I don't know what part she was reading) is offensive to people. It could be the case that the driver was offended by the message, and decided to use the "rules" to shut her up.
At that point, she should have probably piped down her pie hole out of respect for the driver and the other passengers -- not because of social pressure or religious intolerance. It could be that the way the driver asked her sounded rude to her, and it just made her feel like he was trying to shut her up because she was reading the Bible. It is human nature to sometimes overreact when you feel you are being unfairly pressed by a stranger -- the hackles stand up and maybe she was thinking, "Who does he think he is, telling me I can't read the Bible to my children!"

I just have a feeling that neither side was 100% correct in motive or action. I doubt the driver (being irritated) was completely loving and diplomatic in the way he asked her to pipe down. This could have triggered a response in the woman that he was trying to persecute her (or at the very least treat her like a child who needed correcting). There is always two sides to such a story, and rarely in cases like this is one side completely innocent and the other completely guilty.

Rock

[clemsontigers23]

What is "too loud"? I've heard people be loud and talk, laugh, and joke on public transport systems (sometimes unsavory jokes, too). Another thing is, the Gospel (I don't know what part she was reading) is offensive to people. It could be the case that the driver was offended by the message, and decided to use the "rules" to shut her up.
At that point, she should have probably piped down her pie hole out of respect for the driver and the other passengers -- not because of social pressure or religious intolerance. It could be that the way the driver asked her sounded rude to her, and it just made her feel like he was trying to shut her up because she was reading the Bible. It is human nature to sometimes overreact when you feel you are being unfairly pressed by a stranger -- the hackles stand up and maybe she was thinking, "Who does he think he is, telling me I can't read the Bible to my children!"

I just have a feeling that neither side was 100% correct in motive or action. I doubt the driver (being irritated) was completely loving and diplomatic in the way he asked her to pipe down. This could have triggered a response in the woman that he was trying to persecute her (or at the very least treat her like a child who needed correcting). There is always two sides to such a story, and rarely in cases like this is one side completely innocent and the other completely guilty.

Rock

Which brings me to my next question...has anyone heard anything else about this?